I manage the textbook department of a locally-owned college bookstore, and there are a few things I noticed concerning a textbook article that I wanted to address. I'm writing this because I figure it is good information for people to think of before they buy books or start bashing bookstores (which I'm glad this article did not do).
First, a school textbook store is about the only store that is told what to stock by an outside party with no stock in the store's success (professors). Professors are the ones who tell us what to stock for their courses, and those professors are "courted", if you will, by textbook company reps. These reps are sleazy. The low level psychology class here at the university uses a textbook that comes with an online access code - for years students have said they don't use the code, so we ordered used copies of the book. The textbook representative found out, and told us that he is going to do a demonstration to all of the psychology students the first week of classes (all 800 - mostly impressionable freshmen) to show them why they NEED to have that access code. A difference of about $50 for the student. Textbook reps make it worth the professors' while.
Seriously, as sleazy as textbook representatives are - professors are to blame. Professors - or departments - are the final say, no matter how hard the text reps try to get their book used. Professors and departments make that choice to use the dumb bundles, packages, new editions, CDs, online codes, etc. If you have a problem switching to a new edition - ask the professor if you can use the old edition of the book. Often times the professor knows the difference (hopefully they do if they are changing editions!) and will be fine with it.
Second, watch for custom editions - many "custom" editions we have are the exact same textbook you find on Amazon, with a special ISBN to our store from the textbook company that is shrink-wrapped with a single piece of paper that says "CUSTOM FOR [University Name]." Literally, a single piece of paper can make a book "custom". Also, custom editions can have different covers than the normal editions, but be the same book, albeit with a chapter missing. Professors decide to use custom books because publishers will let them choose what chapters from a book they want, and take those chapters out and bundled the book together with a generic or special cover. 99% of the time the chapters is a custom edition that has been put together in this manner are the exact same chapters as in the regular textbook you can find on Amazon. It might take some investigating, but it can be worth it.
Third, many custom books are "loose leaf" or "binder ready". Many, many times these are not any different than the normal bound book you can buy used somewhere. Professors choose these books because they are either coaxed by "gifts" from textbook reps, or because they are dumb enough to think that the reps line of "this is much easier for the student to carry around, they can take only what they need!" is true. These custom loose leaf books will not be bought back by the bookstore at the end of the semester. Talk to the professor, and ask them if you can just use the normal bound book you can buy elsewhere.
Also, don't open bundles. I know this might be the only way to find out what is in them, but 99% of bookstores will not accept refunds for bundles. Textbook companies put in CDs, small supplements, and the worst, online access codes, into bundles which is opened or used cannot be sold or used again. Most textbook companies only accept 5%-20% returns from the store of custom books or bundles...book stores want to get rid of them and are not easily swayed on accepting them as a return. Just wait until you go to class to see if someone else has the bundle, or maybe the professor will have the books with them or more information on the syllabus.
One quick thing about selling back your books. If a book is adopted and a bookstore needs to meet their quota - most of the time you'll get 50% of what you spent - not a bad deal. BUT many times the reasons you get really bad prices is because the bookstores buy for wholesale companies (we get commission on what we sell them, not much, but we do). When professors request a book it is worth more. Often times you should be mad at the professor for not requesting their books on time rather than mad at the bookstore. If the store has no reason to buy your book, we'll buy for wholesalers, who buy very very low. The bookstore is a business that needs to make profit, and if we don't need your book (remember, professors tell us what to stock) you won't get much for it.
And finally - please don't be mad at bookstores. Publishers set the prices, and we mark them up so we can make a profit to pay employees, heat/cool the building, keep the lights on, feed our families, or pay tuition. Yes, Amazon offers new textbooks cheaper (they get a discount because they are so huge) and sellers on Amazon/Half.com sell cheap to get rid of their books. You can find great deals online, but don't always skip the bookstore. Often times - especially with very new books - the college bookstores will have cheaper prices, mainly because publishers are trying to sell as many of the books as possible and are able to give us the books for a better deal than normal.
Overall, S.'s advice is similar to advice on how to be a good consumer in nearly every other realm: do your research, ask the experts (your professors), and shop around. The college library even may have an older edition of your book available to borrow, or available on reserve to read in the library in delicious three-hour chunks. Just ask at the reference desk.
Remember, your professor has spent nearly a decade (or more!) in college and will probably be sympathetic to your frugal plight.
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Busting the College Textbook Monopoly
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Save On Textbooks By Borrowing Them From The School Library...
Getting Jacked When Selling Textbooks Back
(Photo: tillwe)
]]>I would also say he's being exactly as fair as professors deserve. They are the primary customer of the product and I can count on one hand the number of professors I deal with who I've seen actively advocate for the people bearing the burden of paying for their choices. Most are too irresponsible to even place their book orders in a timely fashion, which I repeatedly remind them is the simplest and easiest way to reduce the cost to their students.
]]>In my experience with college bookstores, they don't order old editions because they "can't guarantee there will be enough copies available". I think the bookstore manager in the article is being a bit unfair to the professors--I've never had a textbook rep make it 'worth my while' to select a book for a course (even back when I used a more expensive text).
]]>Still haven't.
]]>i just spent $127 on an accounting book because it was a "special edition" for my school (so hard to find online) and it had an access code. the thing is, it's LOOSE LEAF. i had to buy a binder to put it in so i can even use it. seriously. at least i will be reimbursed by my employer (who is paying for school! woot) but honestly, it's crazy.
]]>@Trai_Dep: LOL! Seriously though I gotta retake Business Statistics again, the book I bought for this class was to cover Stats I and II, ONE WEEK before the new classes start for both courses my school changes the required text. So now I have to shell out another $170! This is robbery!
]]>I'm a professor :) And there are lots of us that do factor in the cost of the book (to the students) when choosing a text.
I'm not a big fan of the extra online bits/codes/etc. that are being added to the book. It does seem like a lot of added cost for only a little added value. When I've asked students if they use the online content provided by the textbook publisher, I get mixed responses. Some students clearly think I want to hear them say that they use the online resources, so they say that they do use them. Any students reading: do you find the online resources (practice questions, etc.) helpful?
Last question: clicker technology: useful? or another way to cadge more money from the students?
]]>@geeky_reader: In Consumerist Poland, the kitteh discriminates against you!
]]>@winstonthorne: Hence the OP's statement "Publishers set the prices, and we mark them up".
]]>Also, some friends of mine discovered that the local community college wouldn't use a textbook unless it had been used at the state university the next town over first. So if someone couldn't find a used copy of a book at the community college's bookstores, they'd head to the bookstores for the state school and find one there. I don't know how common this practice is, but I'm sure it wouldn't hurt to check.
]]>Sure, it makes things more expensive for us, but we feel it saves our students so much money and hassle in the long run. We keep the books on reserve for in-library use, so a student doesn't have to buy a 50$ book that they'll only use for a few weeks of the course, and better yet, they don't have to lug the damn thing around.
One trend we're noticing more and more is textbooks being split into two volumes. So you could have a 100$ 'Intro to Biology' textbook that has 24 chapters split into two 60$ books, one with chapters 1-12, the other with the rest. Profs will think they're doing their students a favor by only requiring one of the smaller volumes, completely missing the fact that the Bio 101 course that they're teaching that covers Chapters 1-12 leads straight into a Bio 102 course that covers 13-24 and thus requires the second volume.
Toss in the fact that faculty don't seem to consult with each other as to the text that they're using and you could end up with a student buying the first 'slim' volume for the Fall and then being told they have to buy the larger, chapter 1-24 volume for the spring.
]]>Well at UNCG (where I last went), in their econ dept. I can tell you that only for one prof did I have to buy the textbook, and that was Sheran (who is an awesome prof in spite of that, and that's with her giving me my only bad grade when I came back)
One other option you have- look for international editions. I've found in some cases, if you can't get it via America- you can sometimes save a bit ordering from India- but it may take a long time to get there.
I wouldn't recommend that except as a last ditch emergency- and if you're related to Clark Howard though.
@lmarconi: My college bookstore used to be independent and run by my university, but I think after my freshman year, it changed to a B&N and magically - magically, I tell you - things were streamlined, people were competent, books were organized. It was like the hammer of good organization skills struck the staff at my bookstore, and suddenly students could actually get something done! I, for one, thank B&N for taking over.
]]>@stpauliegirl: Seriously. The cat photo is the first thing I look for!
]]>I have also discovered that my current college's bookstore gets ISBN's that do not correspond to the book but to the piece of paper shrink-wrapped to the back of the book. So, I went to the store and pulled the ISBN from the back of the used books. Problem solved.
]]>Not necessarily true. I have actually never found an online access that doesn't sell the access separately. The average price is $35-$45. It usually isn't that difficult to find a used book online so cheap that it doesn't make this a viable and attractive option. I have also found many codes that work for 1 full year. Saved my bank account for Stats 1&2 where both professors required the publisher's online access.
Bookstores may have their stock dictated to them but they aren't free of sleeze, like any company. I had the store manager of the bookstore at my college proceed to tell me that because my Biology professor is requiring access to the college's free webct, essentially part of the class is put up online by the professor, that I had to buy new or lose out on half my grade. Webct is provided free to every student regardless of whether or not you buy the book. You buy tuition = you get access to webct. I wonder how many freshmen fell for that number.
]]>Hang on. With large classes, often the book is standardized across sections, and the book that is chosen is the cheapest or the most commonly used one in that field - this has been the case every place I have been in several subjects for which I have been privy to the selection process.
In addition, at least in bio, most of the time, choosing a book is essentially choosing the lesser of evils - none of the available ones actually do a good enough job. I just helped a friend choose a text for a class he's teaching this fall, and not a single book (of the top 3 in the field, all written by big names) actually did the subject justice in all regards. Mostly, you end up choosing the one you hate the least.
Moreover, the move to new editions often happens when the publisher decides the old one simply won't be available. Why would they make the old one available still?
Bundles, useless online content, etc. - if the students don't want it, get rid of it (though I suspect there will always be a contingent of higher achieving kids who do pursue that material) - but a lot of the other stuff isn't something to walk into class holding against your professor before you meet him / her.
]]>In 2008, the Higher Education Opportunity Act was signed. Textbook costs were addressed in this law. This will do some good things to address the issues raised. A summary of the law from the American Council on Education will give you more details ([www.solutionsforourfuture.org]).
I have taught and my husband is currently a professor. He went to a custom publication because it cost the students about half of what the regular text book did. He also was able to include some extra things like the syllabus and grading rubrics, so students didn't need to print much else. And he plans to use the same book for a few years so that there will be a used market. I think there are many professors who really care about the book prices and some who are even moving away from using them all together. But they do provide a crutch for faculty members who are very lazy. Unfortunately there are too many like that in academe now!
]]>A good option is to just list on Amazon at the end of a term for a reasonable price above the lowest offer. As the quarter nears, the cheaper books get picked off (provided the market isn't flooded with used books). At worst, Amazon charges you nothing if it doesn't sell and you can relist for free.
]]>finance: evaluation risk in stock portfolios.
biostatistics: estimate public health risks, determine whether there is convincing evidence that a new drug does better than the current treatment, etc.
genomics: identify gene expressions.
To give you an idea of why it is hard to box statistics in...
post office: statisticians code the software that reads the zip code on mail so it doesn't need to be done by hand. (Or if a non-statistician is writing the software, they are employing statistical techniques.)
]]>I still think my idea is by far the best.
I buy all my books used via Amazon and the like. My college posts all the required texts on the website, along with corresponding ISBNs. I can usually get them for a significant discount.
At the end of the semester, I go to the campus bookstore and sell them back and profit.
For instance, I bought my introductory psychology book for $20 on Amazon, and I sold it to the bookstore for $50.
]]>@treythalomew: $180 for a book is obscene. As is $45 for an eBook...
]]>"Buy on amazon." I tell them. Forget the bookstore and its 25% retail markup. They don't have the students' best interests in mind.
]]>They aren't looking out for the students. The royalty money goes to the department instead of the prof.
]]>I have a friend who's a PhD in some crazy specific area of British history, but for his 4000 levels he usually had to have about 7-10 different, huge history books, often so obscure that you had to track down the author/publisher and order directly from them if you wanted to buy from anywhere but the bookstore.
Oh, and they were half special topics classes (or the like) so there was no finding ones from previous semesters either!
He regularly spent 2-3 times the cost of the class in books.
/do not want
Let me provide a little perspective about the classes I teach:
- Our textbook for the 101 class I teach is standardized for the entire department. We teach 35+ sections, so it has to be. That often lets the bookstore get a better deal, but also means I had no say in choosing the book.
- We are selling an unbound version this year not because it is lighter, but because it is 40% less expensive for the students.
- Definitely check the library; we keep copies of all text books on reserve that you can check out for an hour or two in order to read or do homework at no cost at all.
- DO NOT assume that the instructor will cover everything in that book. Frankly, there just isn't the time. Some try, but if you get a C because you didn't do the reading and are depending on the lectures alone don't blame the instructor.
- The prior-version thing can be dangerous. The other class I teach has problems for each chapter, and they changed between versions. If you do all the wrong problems, how am I supposed to grade you? You got the answers wrong because you were doing the wrong problems. (Note that this is a very subject-dependent thing...some subjects haven't changed their homework problems since I was in school.)
- Prior versions can also be an issue in fast-changing fields. A textbook that is 5 years old in Psychology will be missing some big advances in neurobiology and evolutionary psychology that your instructor is going to expect you to learn. The further you get into your program, the more of a problem this is.
- Most instructors change their textbooks every 3 years or so, so if you are taking a course with a new book you'll have a lot of chances to sell it back or list it on half.com and such if your bookstore won't take it back. If the book has been in use for a while, buy used.
- Amazon and other sources often have the online codes for sale seperately, so that you can buy a used book cheaply and then get the code elsewhere. Many of the publisheres do as well.
If an instructor asks you to buy a bundle with an online code and then never uses it, complain to the administration and the department head. You shouldn't have to pay for something you don't use. On the other hand, you deciding that you can pass without doing the online exercises doesn't count as "not used"
]]>@goodfellow_puck: I agree with most everything you said. One word of caution about old editions, however: While old editions work fine for math/intro science/ lit classes, some engineering texts are based on building codes that can change, and the new edition will be significantly different. Your advice is good though- ask the professor!
]]>The teacher had never used it before, she was trying to save us money - which she did - but she had no idea how horrible the system would be. I don't think she did it again the next year because we all complained so much about it.
In that case, I'd rather have payed more and had an actual, physical book.
]]>I've noticed when looking for books for my classes that if I get them a couple months before class starts, they can be very cheap, but the price incrementally goes up as it gets closer to the term. Now, seeing this trend, its easy to determine that the best time to sell my old books is when the price is high at the beginning of the term, when people are more willing to pay the high prices. Now, using this method for buying does require you actually know what classes you plan on taking significantly ahead of time, otherwise you don't know what to buy, or you may buy books for a class you don't end up taking. It also works best for fall semester classes, buy the books for them right as spring semester ends, the short gap between fall and spring reduces any cost savings from this strategy, but again if you have your next term planned significantly in advance, you can get a better deal on books for spring halfway through the fall semester.
]]>-Please do not mark up those textbooks! You laugh now, but when you open a textbook full of someone else's notes and highlighter dribbles... Same goes for those doritos crumbs.
-Plan ahead. The book you need might be out. No, we can't tell you who has it. Yes, we can tell you the day it's due back. No, we can't go take it out of their dorm room if they decide they'd rather pay the overdue fine than return it on time. Be prepared to make alternate arrangements.
-Ask your professor about getting a reserve copy of the textbook made available. Some professors do this automatically. Some just need to be reminded. If your professor asks us to put it on reserve we will be happy to do so.
-If the book you need isn't there, it could be one of any number of reasons. Don't yell at the librarian about it. He or she is trying to help you, and we'll be much more happy to do so if you treat us with respect. (You'd be amazed how many students don't get this. You guys will be smarter than them, right?)
That being said, good luck with the semester and the reference desk will be more than happy to show you a whole bunch of time and money saving research tips, so you should come make friends with us.
]]>The website will formally launch in about a month. I like to think the statistics community is near the top at endorsing open-source. Hopefully that will be the case when we begin approaching departments to gauge interest. (I've been encouraged after some discussions with teaching faculty.)
]]>My method:
#0: research the class and take te class with a friend if possible. Resources now doubled.
#1: find out if I even need books, and which ones.
#2: find someone who just took the class (spread the word in the dorms/at a party), and buy/borrow their books. Often the convenience of you picking it up, paying more than the bookstore, or promising to return it to them, can be enough to net you a bargain.
-Side note: Believe it or not, I discovered "looking for books" was a great way to start a conversation with girls. It is totally not expected, and not threatening or creepy in any way.
#3: if that doesn't work I hit up ebay/amazon, or wait for that first week of class and see if anyone is dropping. Swoop in on their books that they probably got used/from a friend.
#4: If I am this far, I have now weigh the risk of no book/wrong book with buying the book new.
One semester, I saw no reason to spend whatever on a bundle with two newer versions of books I already had, especially when I still had not cracked one of them and was certain I wouldn't be using it.
It turned out that out of 40 or so homework problems, maybe 8 were completely different between the 2nd and 4th eds. Thankfully, my friends had no problem letting copy down the homework problems.
The next semester they had updated the edition used, and I also found a bookshelf in the department head's waiting area with several copies of every book currently in use by the dept. That same semester we also found out there were two versions of the same edition of the current book for another class. Ah well.
]]>From there you can decide whether to get the book or not.
one prof told us that he was not legally allowed to tell us we could not get books, but he did say he never bought a textbook in college as an undergrad.
More and more students just refused to buy books. The system is strating to break.
]]>My method:
- FIND OUT what books you will "need" via online syllabus, emailing the professor, scoping out the bookstore for titles linked to your prof/class, or even waiting until day one of class.
- GO ONLINE to half.com, amazon, or similar used-book carrier. Look up the edition that was just BEFORE the one you need. Comp & Lit edition 11? Look up 10. These editions are 99% the EXACT SAME as the edition just before them with maybe a chapter shuffled, but publishers switching up "editions" mean less chance for used books to bite off their market. Poor students stuck with the last edition can't get rid of them anywhere and I've gotten texts for as little as ONE DOLLAR. I think I never spent above $10.
- USE YOUR LIBRARY to supplement! If your "old" edition is missing a chapter the teacher wants you to use, or you're waiting for your book to come in, tap the library's resources. Both schools I went to were required to keep one reference copy of any books the professors were using. I could go in for an hr and read the chapter I needed, or make copies of work pages with no problem. In fact, towards the end of my schooling I didn't buy books AT ALL and just hit up the library for all my needs.
Tips:
- I found that even in my core classes, texts were barely used. Teachers would often teach straight from the book so taking notes was fine, or they'd make copies of the pages they wanted to most highlight! As a freshman it might be harder to pinpoint those classes, but as you progress make note of which teachers test from class materials and not books.
- ASK YOUR PROFESSOR for help. They know how ridiculous book prices are. Remind them you're a poor student. Ask them whether the library stocks copies or how different editions may be. Don't ever ask if you're going to "need" a book, 'cause the answer will always be an offended YES, but starting the dialouge may be enough for them to say, "Oh, I can make copies for you!" Or donate a book to your cause, or otherwise give you ideas on how to work around things.
- SHARE with a classmate. If you can't find your book on the cheap, or the library is crappy, go in on a book with a friend. Very few classes will need you to follow the book in-class, but you can sit next to your friend otherwise. Syllabuses will tell you what's next if you need to make copies. It's not perfect, but it's better than dropping $150 on a book you'll never touch again.
]]>Also, this is one reason I'm glad my school didn't make you choose your courses until AFTER the first week of class, when you'd already seen the syllabus and had a chance to talk to the professor, visit the bookstore, and shop online.
]]>@Laura Northrup: @corkdork: I had no idea
]]>@TinkishDelight: I think I just made my own bingo square, so I'll add-
I bought and kept all of my textbooks, mostly because I'm a dork, but also because I still frequently use them. This is great and really thorough advice. They were bundle crazy with my books, but my professors were always really cool about forgoing bundle materials and letting us use older editions, they would even run copies of chapters that had changed or were missing. I went to a tiny dirty hippie school though. A lot of the profs didn't even use books.
Also pay attention to the rate of return for used books. I remember my bookstore would give more money back during certain times of the year.
]]>Well, at my old university, the on-campus bookstore was run by Barnes and Noble.
]]>I always hate this time of the year...
]]>"locally-owned college bookstore"
Is there any other kind?
]]>However I got really lucky with my business calculus because you can just buy the book in ebook form. I grabbed it with a coupon I found online for 45 dollars. The people who bought the book from the bookstore were out 180 dollars for the *exact same content*.
]]>The custom books I've had to use are usually 1/3 the price because they have fewer chapters than the full text.
I'll bet a lot of profs pick their textbooks based on which book provides the best powerpoint slides, so they don't have to do that work. Many times I've seen slides with the publisher's logo in the corner.
]]>It seems Ben wasn't joking on April Fools day when he announced there would be more kitties in the photo captions of stories...
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