Ahh, yes the customers who have to find their money when they get to the window do not help the process. Thats why generally we will tell the customer the price at the speaker.There is a method to the madness folks. We have regulars too and we use the method you stated. I am earning my Bachelors in Business Management so I plan on leaving BK as soon as I can. Its a great job to get when your in HS because it gives you some job experience, but my advice is to stay only as long as you have too.

@Blinden: Guess it kills the time!

Cheeky Monkeys!

If the demands are unreasonable, then the business should cave, hence the saying "the customer is always right." If the customer is asking for world peace, then there's another saying for that: "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone."
I think that reasonable people can come up with reasonable conclusions to reasonable questions, asked reasonably, but then again, we have people that call 911 over the wrong toppings on a sandwich.

To play the devil's advocate, I don't mind pulling up if the food will be hot and fresh. I had rather wait a few minutes for fresh food than be able to drive right through only, later, to find some kinda Krusty-Burger and cold, stale fries later.

They WILL catch hell if I have to pull up, wait to get cold stale food AND it's the wrong order. I have demanded many a refund and I don't go back to those places.

While a little off topic but the same type of situation... My name is DrLumen and I have been 25 years without Dominos!

@rothwells:

Simply incredible.

Do we really need to wonder why some retailers can't stand dealing with some of their customers?

So I was a burger king in Lorton,VA yesterday and I didn't get asked to pull forward and backup, but they did ask me to pull forward (into what most of us call the Penalty Box -- you know, the one when you have the gall to order something they don't have ready).

When I looked behind me and saw there was no one in the drive thru line, I asked why and it was the same thing. Although their explanation was I would be helping them to achieve their time goals.

I also told them i was cheating and I politely refused to pull forward. I'm sure they spit on my food :-)

I work for Westec Intelligent Surveillance, Burger King's corporate approved security provider. Now I know not every franchisee equips their stores with our equipment, but we do have software specifically designed to catch procedural noncompliance such as trying to trick the drive thru timer, voiding receipts and keeping cash, and many other aspects. If you have an issue with the performance of your local Burger King, urge the manager and/or owner to contact Patrick Clayton at Westec Surveillance (patrick.clayton@westec.net) and we will ensure that the store is brought up to speed with the latest in cost reduction/productivity improvement software.

@HalOfBorg:
Yeah i'm with you on this one... dont fu*k with people that have access to your food lol

They did this at most fast food places I used to work at. Also they used to get an employee to circle the building and order waters to bring the drive time down when it was too extreme.

1) Anyone who would sit in their car and argue with a drive-thru worker about this policy at the window, or worse, through the speaker thing, is a selfish asshole. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, considering the original post was on a blog called selfish mom.

Do you think chiding this person is going to make any difference? Do you think your well-reasoned arguments are going to make them go, "Wow. You've opened my eyes to the evils of our Burger King mind games. I renounce my dedication to the burger crown!" No. What you are going to do is hold up the line behind you (which, by the way, is full of people who want the process to be fast, like you claim to), piss off the employee (because he didn't make the decision and because he can't do anything to change it), and waste everyone's time, just so you can feel powerful and righteous.

2) Really? Out of all the things in the world someone could find to complain about, someone decided to take time out of their day and complain about... backing up and then pulling forward at a fast food restaurant. Really? Not only that, but the OP actually took a special trip to Burger King just to investigate. Not even for food. Really? Are you really that petty and desperate for validation, that you'll puff up your chest and make a fuss over... this? Really?

All the corporate literature that is provided to managers talks about how the entire drive-thru order process is supposed to take, on average, only 90 seconds. The vast majority of that time is actually supposed to be the order taking process and the payment process. Once you pay, you're supposed to be able to drive up to the next window, and instantly receive your food and drink with no wait. This system breaks down when you take more then 90 seconds to place your order and pay. On the other hand, there are scores of customers now days that order just a soda, or just a double cheeseburger and pay with a credit card - all which takes significantly less then 90 seconds. The whole process where you are asked to park if the order cannot be prepared in time is sanctioned by corporate (at least it was when I worked there...I'll bet it's the same for Burger King), however these orders were supposed to be "held" in the system, and only a certain percentage was allowed of these orders. I worked at a corporate store, and these customers were supposed to be treated extremely well. You usually got free pies, your drinks topped off, etc.
To summarize, the 90 sec goals were achievable in the corporate store setting where every staff position had an employee working.

The problem came when the store became franchised. When owned by corporate, the store was hemorrhaging money...the math doesn't really work out to sell $1 double cheeseburgers and have 10 or more people working behind the counter. But that is how a corporate store is supposed to be run. Period. When the store becomes franchised, stuff starts getting cut - primarily staff positions. When you suddenly go down to four people running a store (one person serving drive thru and taking front counter orders, a manager, a cook, and someone taking drive thru orders) these time targets are impossible. However, some stores legitimately hit these targets and thus all stores are held to this standard. So basically this whole process has become standard because corporate treats their franchises in such a way that they can't realistically make money unless they game the system. Is it good for the customer? No. But it pains me to read of everyone else on here talking about reporting stores to corporate for this stuff, when they are the ones causing the problem. I'm sure it's the same at Burger King.

I guess our cheating isn't as noticeable to the customers, but I think people are kind of overreacting, and the article oozes smug. You don't want to back up? Don't. You needed to write an article to say that? No, just get your damn croissan'wich and be happy, and if you don't want to deal with having to say no, maybe get your fat arse out of your car and go inside. Human contact isn't really that scary.

I wondered why my local Taco Bell did this every time I go through the drive-thru. I special order, they must be trying to cheat the timer. Next time I'll tell them no.

Of course the person working at Burger King doesn't care if the "times get faster," they care about not getting in trouble and losing that $7.25 an hour job. In fast food, "process improvement" usually involves being shown the door.

Frankly, I'm impressed with their spirit of self preservation. I can stand to wait a little longer for my french fries if it means a member of the working poor in this country can still keep one of the few jobs available to them.

I agree with you entirely. Hence, I eat a better establishments. Fast Food is for the common people and their common misery. Yes, I am an elitist.

pretty much treating us as worthless as we feel. imagine going as fast as you possible can without injuring yourself, then being told its not good enough.

now i can usually get an order out in a minute and a half differentiating on if your just ordering 4 things, or for your sons entire little league team. but that's on a good day when we're not under staffed (which we usually are).

in times like these its bad enough that its one of the few jobs we can land, but then add 7.25 and hr, ridicules rules like "make only 2 sandwiches at a time", domineering management, and serious safety issues(i myself have gotten 3rd and 2nd degree burns 3 times this year).

isn't it just more considerate to pull forward? make their crappy day a little easier? don't be one of those viciously mean customers that make alot of the girls i work with go home and cry.

Thing is, almost all fast food restaurants are NOT corporate owned. Complain to the corporate office and about the best you'll get is a mild feedback form to the franchise owner and GM. Then you pretty much get nothing, because making someone who ordered and paid for $20 of food wait a few minutes while 4-5 $6 orders are processed is good business, even if it's not the best customer service.

Anyhow, it has to be said: if you don't like being treated generally like a pig in an abattoir chute, you probably shouldn't be eating at BK in the first place.

You started working at 15, and it's unlikely that you rose to manager immediately. So the most years you could have had as a teenaged manager would have been 4, between the ages of 16-19, inclusive. That leaves you with at least 3 years of return to minimum wage peon, and they would have followed your management years.

You see, I was thinking logically. Don't try to teach your grandmother to suck eggs, sonny. Oh, and it's Ms. Obvious to you.

Just help and American out if you don't the job they have will be outsourced to india and what have you done then..... Yup the downfall of America thanks to you and your stinking Crasonwich Mom YOU SUCK!

I wouldn't do any of these things, nor have I had it done to me (to the best of my knowledge), but I have stopped going through the drive-thru and just waited inside the restaurant, saving gas and money lost--due to idling--and the environment.

Eating fast food kind of cancels out the greenhouse gases "savings" in the first place, which is why I'm scrapping fast food restaurants from my habits. Gone from my lunch/dinner menus are: McDonald's (about five years), Burger King (about three years), Carl's Jr. (about two years), Taco Bell and Del Taco (about one year each), Subway, Quiznos, Wendy's, El Pollo Loco and Jack in the Box (a few months each).

You know what I hate more than slow service at a fast food place? The office employee who comes in with eight orders and then has to make a cell phone call back to the office because someone forgot to order the drink. Soccer moms with 5 kids who are asking their kids what they want and the kids are not giving straight answers and are running all over the place. Mom and her pwetty pwecious ones won't get out of line to decide and let everyone else get their food and get out. The self righteous twits who feel that because they are *fill in the blank* deserve better or faster service than everyone else and then wonder why people tell them to get to the back of the line and wait their turn like everyone else.

These are alot worse than slow service.

@jonquil: +1

It's a stupid thing, especially depending on the time the order is taken. Typically, it's hand written into the paperwork, though there is a printout from the little timer they hang near the windows at the drive-thru. Both should match, but I've know plenty of people who just wrote whatever without fear of it getting double checked as long as sales were being met.

I used to work at Jack n the Box at the federal way, WA location (not the one right next to the freeway).

The BK near me used to ask you to pull ahead if they were waiting on a portion of your order, even though there was not a customer behind you. One time I simply refused and the manager came to the window and asked me to pull ahead, again I refused and said that if and when someone comes up behind me I will pull ahead, but until that time, it is more convenient for me to stay here so you don't forget about me, and as I am not blocking any other patrons, why should I pull forward. The manager then explained that by me standing at the window the timer would keep moving, and they are graded on how quickly they serve their customers, to which I replied, "Then I guess you would be better off telling your staff to complete my order rather than arguing with me" My ordercame out about 10 seconds later.

I alerted BK Corporate about the experience, and they apologized to me and advised me that they would address the situation. The practice has not happened again at that location.

I forgot to mention I did find out when I called the corporate office that they've had reports of stores doing this for the reason stated here.

@The Marionette: The Wendy's I worked at years ago definitely did NOT do this, edespite having a then-SOTA timer system. I know this because if they did, a certain manager would have been fired for sending employees out for 10-15 minutes at a time just after a bad lunch rush, to do laps as fast as they could. We routinely went from 180 or so to 30-60 depending on who was doing it, how full the parking lot was, and whether it was a car or a bicycle (which COULD reliably set off the sensor, and could make tighter loops). It was also standard practice for all employees to do a loop through the drive-thru sensor region when they left.

Corporate wants us to get drinks out in under 2:30 minutes. Usually that's not realistic in a morning rush. (Figure 60 drinks an hour during a rush, that's a drink in under 60 seconds, unpossible).

Most of our customers would rather it be a great drink than a sloppy, fast one anyways.

I never bothered to question it; I usually just go inside. They have crinkle fries and if I'm actually standing there I feel they are more likely to cook them extra crispy than if I'm at the window.

The problem was that the first 60 seconds - 5 minutes were wasted because the person didn't know what they wanted or couldn't order in a reasonable manner. Then another 60 seconds were wasted because the driver was sitting on his wallet, pulling pennies from the center console or otherwise taking forever to pay. Then it would take 1-2 minutes for them to casually put the money away and pull up to the window where they get their food. Even if everything inside went like clockwork, there was almost no way to actually get the order out in 90 seconds. (I should also mention that if you had 10 burgers in the order, which wasn't uncommon,and the order took 30 seconds to take, the assembly line had less than 6 seconds to assemble each sandwich. And people wonder why their sandwich looks like crap.)

That's actually correct. The card reader will not allow you to continue once you put that card in. You MUST sign even though the charge is a mistake. Only then can the charge be voided.

As an FYI, any cashier can issue an instant void on the last transaction at the register with the team lead's approval. Sometimes the cashier doesn't know this and they refer you to Guest Services.

On a side note, those electronic tablets never check signatures (they don't at any retailer). They just record the signature to show the cashier and print on the internal receipt. The signature is never seen by anyone for all practical purposes.

in my highschool days I worked at mc d's and we didnt have sensors, this was back in 97 so maybe things have changed.

like mattyank says, there was a server and park button that we manually had to press, no sensors. and man we hated busy drivethru days when the top manager was there. she was asian so had an accent and she would scream from the top of her lungs "pahk it, pahk it"! when it got to a certain minute (dont remember). They try to hold these people to ridiculous standards, and obviously if met she would probably get a nice bonus for drivethru times. that's what corporate america gets ya'!

I worked at a high-volume Starbucks for a few years, and corporate was always crapping on us because the standard was something like no more than 3mins from line start to finish.

We regularly had drink orders divisible by 5.

It's not always employee incompetence, especially when management has no grasp of minimum prep time-- you can agree that to cook a burger or make a drink, it's going to take more than 10 seconds, yes? Or are you that idiot who thinks people can freeze time?

@cadwal:

Agreed, 99 times out of 100 when a customers asks why it's usually not worth to get into it with them - it almost never turns out good, and as you said, often wastes valuable time.

@Foxtrot12:

Agreed...

@speedwell, avatar of snark:

So now it's a question of an employees' morals?

Come on now.

@Cyberxion101:

Not pro-policy here, just anti-kissingeverycustomersassbecausetheysaidso.. ;-p

Customers DON'T need to accept things, but they can't say "I don't agree with that so I'm simply not doing it" and expect a business to cave into their demands each and every time.

And I'm really not sure why the 'knows nothing' employee with a headset would now be expected to be able to communicate proper store/Corporate policy on-the-fly whenever they're asked by a customer.

The word 'policy' should never really be used by ANYBODY, it's a cop out.

There's real a fine line between being an assertive customer and getting tossed out of a BK for being a total jerk - I'm just trying to figure out where that line is.

@speedwell, avatar of snark:

Trolling? I have 20+ years of experience with the EXACT subject we're discussing.

It's really interesting to see something from the other side once in a while, you should try it.

For those who are saying that the times are there for a reason, how about you try serving outlandish requests (6 orders of chicken strips and 24 hamburgers) in the required 45 seconds.

@Eleanor Ramilly:

....but yes, asking you to pull forward then back again is cheating the system. If it were me I'd pull up and sit there.

Try it next time - pay for your money and pull ahead. They'll gladly bring your food out.

@Eleanor Ramilly:

So you wouldn't normally pull forward out of the drive thru then? ;-p

Perhaps a sign that says 'You may be asked to pull ahead after paying to allow us to all customers in the quickest fashion' would suffice? Or would you honestly not go through if you saw that? Just curious.

Customers shouldn't have to give a damn, much less comply with pathetic loser attempts to cheat on inside transparent corporate goals thank you.

Of course, tell them that AFTER you have the food :)

As soon as the first item is punched into the computer for an order the timer starts. So, if a customer starts to order in the drive through and then decides to pick up their cell phone and place eight calls to find out what their friends/family/dog want to eat, I get yelled at for it. I can't ask you to get on with it or come inside.

If someone pulls up to the window and fumbles around counting change for a minute, then decides to just use their credit card I get a storm of "Why aren't you serving it? What are you doing?" over the headset and screams from the front.

They expect us to maintain the times while never having enough people staffed. After 7 PM it's not uncommon to only have three people working in the store even though it's a high volume restaurant. One person handing the food out and taking orders on the front counter, one person cooking the meat and preparing the sandwiches and one person in the back taking drive through orders. The reason we are so understaffed is due to the corporate district managers calling in and telling them to "cut, cut, cut".

@speedwell, avatar of snark: Actually, around here...more along the lines of...

REASONABLE CAT IS REASONABLE

I quit eating at Popeyes, because the manager tried to have me arrested for not pulling forward. I had went thru the drive thru, got to the window and the employee took my money, told me "it will just be a minute sir" Next thing I know this guy opens the window and starts screaming at me, "you need to pull forward" I just looked at him. I said" sure soon as the young man brings me my food" He said" Your not getting any f%ing food, you need to leave my property" I said" sure you have my money, I suggest either you give me my money back, or my food" He said" I told you to leave you need to leave or I am calling the police" I said, fine call the pope I don't care. I am not moving" Five minutes later the police show up. They made him give me money back. I wrote corporate a letter, they send me a $1 coupon. I wrote them back a nice letter that basically said, "I am sorry that you company is hurting so bad, but sending me a $1 coupon is an insult, I am returning it so that you don't have anymore undo hardships" My reward, both Popeyes went out of business in town.

Yeah, well I also don't have a sign on my car saying that. I'm not demanding they do something, they're the ones asking me to pull forward and back up. An action that cheats the timer and allows for slower service. In my opinion, since I'm the customer, I shouldn't have to do work to make them look better.

@rpm773: If I'm being asked to game the system because the numbers are hugely unreasonable, then sure, I'll go with it. If I'm being asked to game the system because the employees are lazy and can't be fucked to improve their output, then I think that's something I could at least get a little worked up about.

However, it's hard to get worked up about this, given how little we know about what's motivating them to do it.

8 years of service experience as both minimum wage peon and teenaged manager

So did you start working at 12 or did you get busted back down to minimum wage peon after being a manager? Your numbers don't add up.

@Drulloch: Why yes, yes it is! It's totally your place to ask, especially when the "policy" in question seems outlandishly stupid! If I'm being asked to park, which is another way of saying "Please allow us to take additional orders while we scramble to prepare yours…", and there's nobody behind me to make that request make any sense whatsoever, then I would like to think that I'm well within my rights to question that request, and that I'm under no obligation to comply with it if the response is lacking, or as was the case here, totally nonexistent.

Folks are generally resistant when they encounter something out of the ordinary, and more so when there's no explanation for it. For example, I worked in retail years back, and it was well within my means to give folks a discount if I thought that giving them one would make their shopping experience a better one. You wouldn't believe how many folks questioned the discount simply because it was abnormal. If I'd have looked at them like they were putting me off by questioning it, and then refused to meet their queries with a response, chances are great that they would have refused the discount even though it would have been wholly beneficial to them to accept it. Not only that, but they'd be suspicious of my intention in having offered it in the first place, which may dictate whether or not they shopped at the store again. This is similar, insofar as while it's a possibility that the request that the BK employee made was wholly reasonable to their mind, it appeared unusual to itsallme, and their refusal to qualify it with an explanation resulted in itsallme refusing to comply.

Now that aside, I know first-hand as a former BK employee that it's not policy that dictated their actions. They may park you if your order is taking exceptionally long to prepare and another customer shows up in the drive-through during that time, but it's certainly not a matter of policy to park customers when there's nobody else in line. So this wasn't a case wherein a customer was trying to presumptuously "set policy and procedure" as you appear to believe that it was. Rather, it was a case wherein a customer was stymied by a seemingly illogical request that was made of him by a BK employee, and refused to comply with it when said employee failed to qualify that request with a reasonable explanation. Or any explanation at all for that matter.

I'm not so sure why you seem to be of the opinion that customers simply have to accept the policies of a business as a rule of thumb, something that assumes that those policies have the best interests of both customers and employees at heart, but itsallme's anecdote doesn't appear tread on your pro-policy sensibilities after all, so don't stress it. ;)

@Drulloch: Businesses are in business because and to the extent of the way they meet the needs and expectations of consumers. If you don't like it, go to work for a non-profit.

Nice how the rules change when you realize McDonalds was CHEATING their times.

But, I'm not sticking around waiting for my food to be Adulterated either

@thezone:
Is that what that is?

I thought they were just trying to increase the number of people they serve.

@HalOfBorg: If I'm going to be terrified of eating someplace because I think they're likely to contaminate my food disgustingly for looking at them sideways, I refuse to eat there at all. It's just not worth the fear and stress.

@Drulloch: If they're willing to lie and act disrespectfully to you, what else are they doing that might be considered questionable?

@thezone: Drulloch is trolling. Around here we don't think reasonable customer requests are unreasonable.

@Drulloch: You say that as though the demand in question was an unreasonable one.

@mianne: oh, a fellow STAR! I have to say, being a STAR was, by far, the best gig at the McD's.

Actually on-topic, though, in my experience, a properly managed fast food restaurant can meet their times most of the time without gaming the system. Whether a particular store is properly run (or can be and still make a profit) depends a lot on the management team. Either way, no one wins if the data is bullshit.

@thezone:

Try to get the number or e-mail address of the District Supervisor. They're the one that can light a fire under store management, they'd also be the person contacted by Corporate should Corp. decide to follow through on things.

If the DS provides no satisfaction, ask for the Regional Supervisor.

Corporate is probably saying 'well, they didn't complain about the food...' and leaving it at that.

@Eleanor Ramilly:

Not really, they file a complaint with their DS and record the drive thru incident with their supervisor who resaerched into it, and if found true, removes the long time from the queue completely.

Again, customers can be curious but they have no RIGHT to demand an explanation for why they're being pulled. There's no sign entering the DT that says 'All of your demands will be met irregardless of context.'

@Bogart's Falcon aka Philly Falcon:

I've been asked to do this before, usually because they are waiting for something to finish cooking and there is no reason all of the people behind me should be kept any longer. I've never had a problem with it since it is just a matter of being courteous to my fellow customers and courtesy costs nothing.

I wish Panda Express would do that, as I will never again use their drive-thru after being trapped in it for alomst 20 minutes once while waiting for something to be cooked. When I go there, I always go in now.

There's a McDonalds here that cheats the system. They just refuse to take your order at the drive-thru until the previous customer has received your food. There can be a line of ten cars past the menu board, but no cars in front of it.

My guess is that the timer doesn't start until your order is inputted. I'm sure it makes their numbers look better, but when you are trapped in the lane for 15 minutes before your order is even taken it's a little off-putting.

These timers are a brutal stress-bringer. I worked at a Tim Hortons where they expected no more then 12 seconds per customer. If your average was around 20 seconds, you heard about it.

When you're asked to be nice to the customer and meet ridiculous time goals while UNDER-STAFFED, something has to give.

@Ayanami:

Labor hours are provided via a strictly followed formula, and it works like a charm.

Schedule your employees correctly Mon-Thur and you won't need to worry about cutting costs later in the week - say Friday during lunch when you're doing $1200 hours with 100 cars going through drive thru.

Stores regularly screw themselves early in the week, they have to try to make it back somehow - and customer and speed of service is typically what falls by the wasteside.

Nevermind that if you're short staffed the LAST thing you want to do is 'pull cars' and have to lose an employee for 30 seconds to have them run outside.

@itsallme:

Gee, I wonder why they're upset? I didn't realize the customer got to set policy and procedure now.

Who cares 'why', it's not the customers' place to ask that... really, it's not!

Curiosity is fine but saying 'no', erm, not.

@Ronin-Democrat:

You're right, if you make a car pull back and then forward again it'll register a second vehicle = bad.

Then you'll have one car greater then the number of drive thru orders for that particular 15 min pay period.

@queenofdenial:

Those were the old audio sensors, prety much sonar. They worked great with trays, but alas, they're dinosaurs.

Wiring embedded into the ground at the DT menu and windows is now the typical method used for sensing cars - called 'detection loops'.

They're behind their time quota because of all the time they spend chatting with curious drivethru customers.

BTW... Why oh why do some Burger Kings insist on microwaving their burgers after they are grilled??? Turns them into a nasty mush.

@PLATTWORX:

Corporate needs feedback, yes, but 99 times out of 100 the actual action is taken at the local/district level.

@SJPadbury:

Work a shift in a busy BK with customers like you and I'll show you a 'poor overworked employee'.

Customers are what makes fast food jobs so tough, not the job itself. Sell 'em a Whopper for $1 and they want it extra hot, fresh off the broiler, extra everything, wrapped twice, and cut in quarters - with 4 glasses of water.

@Bogart's Falcon aka Philly Falcon:

Considering EVERY Burger King in the world is a private business they can tell you anything they want and if you don't comply they can refund your money - just as they did.

While I understand the customer questioning 'why', to tell them 'no I will not' is the same as saying 'give me my money back.'

You're still IN your car when you get your food. Still didn't have to get off of they butt. I don't understand people that say things like this, and I guess I never will.

There is a Burger King where I live that does this as well, however their take on it is a little different. They seem to change up the ways they cheat the system from time to time. Sometimes they will make you wait at the first window until your food is ready. Then they allow you to pull forward. I suppose after many complaints about this, they decided to try and make it appear that it was simply taking longer to process your purchase, thus was the reason for waiting back at the first window. The employees would hold onto your debit card even after swiping it and printing a reciept. Another trick they pull is the ole "pull forward and we will bring your food out to you". I of course got sick of their practices, and stopped visiting even though its the closest one to our home.

Ummm if you cheat them doesn't that perpetuate the unreasonable metrics and even encourage them to be more unreasonable?

@mizike: hmm, this reply wasn't meant to go here...oh well enjoy your morning non sequitor.

Ahh, point of assembly food manufacturing at its best!

I could see however the timer getting confused if a car missed one of the checkpoints, then it's one car behind, and will be left running even though the drive-through is empty. Backing up then pulling forward would fix that problem.

@thelushie: This was my thought as well, BFD. I mean, you've got this person getting paid literally the lowest amount the government will allow, with no benefits, no training, doing a job which is not only mind numbing but is looked down upon by 98% of the population and now some corporate goon is asking them to meet some arbitrary and pointless metric as well? I don't blame them at all for cutting those corners, where's the benefit for them? Certainly not any extra money (that would be absurd), only the joy of not having to walk across the street to the McDonalds and getting an equally shitty job there.

Multiply those numbers by 2 or 2.5 and you probably have a pretty close approximation of the pay scale today.

@HalOfBorg: Amen...much more important to make sure my order is not mixed up with the guy behind me

@Lucky225: My wife used to do that when we first started dating, I had to remind her constantly that it's ok to complain AFTER you have said food but you never know what's going on before it's in your hands.

Of course there are so many horror stories about restaurants/fast food prep that you never truly know if you're safe or not.

Literally shooting the messenger would be a serious crime, and a ridiculously unproportional response to the problem. Now, figuratively shooting the messenger, that might be appropriate.

While Associate and General managers may make a reasonable wage the shift managers tend to be the ones doing the bulk of the management work (on top of duties in line with that of a shift worker) and making little more than shift workers.

I guess I do see working in a fast food chain as beneath me, but that is only because I made a conscious decision to develop skills to work in a job that pays 4~5 times as much with less than half the stress.

When they discover that the key problems lie with:

1: Shift change occurring as the high school down the street lets out.

And

2: A larger than average number of custom orders (e.g. no mayo, extra cheese)

Then they could rework the schedule to better reflect the neighborhood, and accept that either times need to be slower, or margins slimmer with more "naked" burgers prepared in advance to allow for custom fixings.

In reality though: the store manager probably gets a memo couched in flowery corporate-speak which basically states they need to improve drive-thru times, or there will be a new store manager at that location.

This will ultimately result in grumpy employees and bad service, 2 things retail stores do not need in this downward economy. Firing people because they are not making their numbers is bad too because its most likely not their fault and this leads to high employee turnover, which leads to bad service if employees are coming and going every couple weeks. In general this leads to a chaotic retail situation and the store's service will ultimately suffer. Maybe we have the reason here why all the news reports are saying that retail store sales are down so much!

@RecordStoreToughGuy: Exactly .

It winds up being a game between corporate and the field level location/employee . Even if it doesn't work the employees including location management will try .

I don't know why BK doesn't use the order time on the reciept and then use the total out time when the order is given to the customer .

The real kicker that this is supposedly for the benefit of the customer and yet you are endangering the very same customer by asking them to back up and risk a backing accident .

I like BK but I've been in one with a district manager around and they were very demeaning if not condescending . They must of been from BK HQ from across the pond because she had an accent . All this in a tourist area in front of customers .

I don't think this is a good idea for fast food though, trying to be too fast will lead to undercooked food which can lead to food poisoning and other food borne illnesses. Americans need to step back and be patient for once!

I find this very interesting and appreciate Amy telling her story. Never been asked to do this, however. I hope Amy took the time to also write Burger King corporate. Between this and the owner who decided to announce on his sign that global warming did not exist they certainly seem to have a few franchise owners stepping out of line. Not at all good for PR when you need to rebuild your brand.

That said, I do agree that talking to the drive-thru employee is probably pointless. They are just doing what they were told and would probably be snapped at if they tried to pass this on to a manager.

That is why I almost never speak to local employees or managers of a chain establishment when I have a problem. I note who and when and write corporate. The local employees are powerless and the local managers normally will cover their tracks, not make improvements. Corporate needs the feedback and has the power to take action.

@changed my name: I wonder how many lawsuits they'll get slapped with when the top pops off that coffee and it spills all over the poor recipient. That's just weird. Coffee in a bag.

@ElPresidente408: Huh, good to know. I always scan my card before they're finished ringing anyway for my own sake.

This does explain the very unhappy cashier I had a few weeks ago who's manager turned off his light to run some sort of role-playing excercise after he was done ringing me up. He is hands down the slowest (and grumpiest) cashier at my local Target.

@Eleanor Ramilly: Exactly, and it will reflect poorly on the manager that is pushing the line level employees to carry out this policy. Then corporate will notice and something might change. The employee can't really be held accountable for customers asking why they should pull forward and then back, so this seems like a pretty good idea.

@John: Being a fast food manager (as opposed to counter help) usually does pay a living wage, for one thing. For another, I don't know that you know enough about the life situation, goals, and education of every fast food manager that you can assume they are all incompetent. Just because someone is doing a job you consider to be beneath you does not mean they must be incompetent or somehow a failure.

For what it's worth, I've been to fast food restaurants that are managed well and fast food restaurants that are managed poorly. All wtihin the same chain and same city, so I assume the pay scale is roughly equivalent.

"But how will the times get faster if you don't acknowledge that there's a problem?"

Does it occur to you that punishing employees for being slow is not the effective way to speed them up -- read the research of W. Edwards Deming? While you're at it, see if you can pick up some empathy for the working classes. I'm sure you can find a two-for-one sale when you're picking up extra self-righteousness.

That's because you've never been to the 45-minute drive-thru near me. ARGH! HOW HARD IS IT TO MAKE A BURGER, PEOPLE?

@pecan 3.14159265 (now with star power): This is the same thing as the high volume call centers.

How happy are you with your service when you call those things? You should be happy shouldn't you? I mean, they've met all their internal metrics on call time, resolve percentages, upsell opportunities, etc. By definition, you should be happy, just like at BK. Now, compare that to our favorites within Consumerist (Nordstroms, Zappos, etc.). When you manage people only with the stick, these are the sorts of things you will see. You'd be surprised what a little dignity and a fair(er) wage can bring. But, with trust and compensation comes accountability- if they still don't perform, when you give them that chance, then you get them out, fast.

Does anyone ever look at the use of these metrics in terms of their negative impact on service?

But I may be a bit cynical in my evaluation.

X2 to that, wife always wants to yell while the order is still being taken, but personally I'd rather wait until food is in hand and accounted for.

Ummm... 911?

Seriously, that's a crime, and someone this violent needs to taste the slammer before they do something more serious.

@coren: Having had the wonderful teenage experience of working at 3 (THREE!) different Burger King's I can tell you that most likely the drive thru times are not compared to sales data. I can also tell you it was very easy just to lean out the drive thru window when no customers were there to wave a tray in front of the timer to reset it and get a better average. But those sensers may be different than at other BK's.

I remember the days of working the drive thru. I've seen the target times. I even talked with the training manager about them.

Sure, during lunch, you can beat the clock, that's when the store is fully staffed. Between lunch and breakfast... forget about the time. The kitchen is in the middle of switching over. After lunch? forget about it, over half the kitchen was sent home or is on a break, one of the two people left is washing dishes, which leaves one person to handle all the food. That one person gets caught off guard when school lets out and you have a gazillion random orders.

I did my best to make the 30 second time, but I was happy if I could get you your food in 2 minutes. 30 seconds is barely enough time to take the payment and hand out drinks.

Speaking of payments, if you know how much the food is going to cost, please have your money ready. I don't like being behind the person searching for change under the seats and the drive thru people hate it even more.

Oh, there's one more legit way to beat the clock. Know what the regulars order. I worked breakfast shift, if I recognized the voice, I'd often have their order in before they finished giving it.

Like other's said, if you get really good at a fast food job, it's time to move on to something else. I graduated HS and went to college. I don't miss smelling like a french fry after work.

I thought this was ridiculous. I seriously considered writing "CHARGE NOT AUTHORIZED" instead of my signature, just to see what they did then. (I mean, what exactly do they do if the signature obviously does not match? Do they just not care if an unauthorized person is making the charge?) But I was in a hurry, so I signed, processed the return, and resolved to never run my card again until every item was scanned.

@nibblersmom:
Sorry, I didn't know it was you.

@Smashville:

This is like a Bellerophontic Letter, except for the unwitting part though.

Target times its cashiers on the speed of their transaction. Too slow, and your screen showed a big "R". Too many Rs and the front-lanes team lead would pull you aside for "coaching".

System sounds great in theory but it has one huge flaw, people who take forever to put their card in. Frequently, people would take AGES to get their credit card out of their purse/wallet. Of course everytime this happened, you'd get an R.

This is why Target cashiers encourage you to put your credit card into the machine as items are being scanned to keep the times down.

Although any seasoned cashier knows how to stop the timer in the system which I dont' feel is cheating as the transaction is done. It's the customer who is holding it up at this point.

I agree with the OP here - if as consumers we want good service then we can't cooperate in their cheating of the system. And making excuses and shaking a finger a corporate doesn't solve the problem.

(8 years of service experience as both minimum wage peon and teenaged manager - who still made both sales and salary goals for four years straight).

"Joey, I have a special project for you and that new '92 Camaro you just bought."

Oh I know - hard to speed it up without making things ahead of time. Things like blizzards would be tough to store.

Once I was at Burger King drive through. It took a bit longer than normal. Not much, I had just started to notice when food arrived. And I got a free something - (i forget what it was) - for the delay. I laughed and told em I hardly noticed. I took it though. No sense tossing it out.

And drive thru's probably need to keep researching speed for competition. Who wants to have the slowest burger line in town?

ACCURACY - that's what I like. Give me OK speed but EXCELLENT accuracy anyday.

I called Carl's Corporate Office after this incident, but I got nowhere with them and my local restaurant still does this.

@burnedout: If someone were better trained and more experienced, I don't think they could get away with paying them pennies more than the shift workers.

1) Places where they are about to handle your food.

2) Places where they are about to cut your hair.

Just the smallest mistake - an innocent little error - and you regret it for quite a while.

Now - if they have just given me my food - all bets are off. If you deserve to be treated badly - watch out, here it comes.

That being said, I as a customer would like to be left out of whatever ways employees wish to deal with the policy. If they want to go out and drive back and forth themselves, that's fine by me, but please don't expect customers to futz around to serve you.

No, it's not shooting the messenger. It is likely that the time goals are set by the franchise owner or manager and that the employees, who are apparently unable of living up to even the basic requirements of a fast food job, are cheating the system all on their own.

If they can go to the trouble of cheating the system, why can't they put my burger and fries into a paper bag in a reasonable amount of time?

@thelushie:
That is a rather unfortunate comment, we see what you did there.

Side note if they tell you to pull forward, just do it, even if there is no one behind you, it keeps the flow going if some one comes up behind you and orders a 21oz. coke.

I have never been asked to do this sort of thing at any drive-thru I have ever been at. And honestly, if asked, I probably would not care about doing it. I have had their job and it is a tough one especially with customers like selfish mom at the wheel of the car.

Sure it's not brain surgery but the constant bitching and impossible goals from upper management coupled with the constant scapegoating by other store level managers make it one of the most stressful jobs I have ever had.

Here's a tip on how to not have to "pull up". Usually, fast food restaurants have two windows..one for the money and one for the food. When you go to the second window and they tell you to pull forward to wait on your food, simply tell them that you don't have time to wait, and that you would like your money back. Be polite about it. Since the person handing out food can't give you your money, they will usually make a point to walk back there and "check on" your order, asking the preparer to make your food faster. This has happened to me about 5 times in the last 3 years and has worked every time.

YMMV

The first time they asked me to do it I did it without questioning why. The next time they asked me I questioned why since there wasn't anyone behind me. The manager came over to me and told me I had to pull around the front of the store. I told her I would not do that and I asked for, and received, my money back. Just to tick her off I proceeded to take my time in putting my money back into my wallet before driving away.

I reported this to Burger King Corporate that same day. About a week later I went to the window again but this time I wasn't asked to pull up to the front to wait for our food.

@wvFrugan: But this isn't the time to do it. It is a fast food place, not the White House. There is a time and place for questioning of this sort of practice...the fast food drive thru is not it.

BK and other fast food joints are obviously not in the business of caring about anything except profits and the perception that the employees are doing a good job. Your fries might be soggy, the burger might look like it got thrown against the window, the soda may taste more like water, but if they can make it seem as if you're satisfied (because the lack of complaints equal satisfaction apparently), they'll get a pat on the back. It's not surprising that BK wants to fool the timer. Everyone else's service suffers, but they met their quota!

When I was working at McDonalds we had to press a button to clear the order when it was completed to stop the timer. When the button was pressed it would also clear the screen of the order so we supposedly wouldn't know what to give the customer. We would just press the button as soon as the receipt was printed and use that instead, our times were fantastic.

So I said something like, "But how will the times get faster if you don't acknowledge that there's a problem?"

I guess one could take a stand on principle such as this. For me, though, if they asked me to play their little game and I felt like doing it, I probably would. Or maybe I wouldn't.

The point is, it's an internal metric for Burger King, and therefore I can't get too worked up over the fact this branch is trying to cheat it.

I, on the other hand, have two scores for a drive-thru: "satisfactory" and "unsatisfactory". Score the former, and I return. Score the latter, and I don't return.

@Ronin-Democrat: Of course if you don't do it, you're risking some spittle in your food. I would just pull around to the window and say, "Oops, I wasn't paying attention. Give me my food."

Yeah, if this happens again, I'm saying, "Sure, only if you give me more fries or a free pie or something."

/rant

Sorry, I'm a little moody today

@Smashville:
You know, there comes a time when the civilized world must occasionally, quite literally, shot the messenger: sometimes "I was just following orders" doesn't cut it.

I'm fairly certain the person at the window isn't the one that set this policy. Isn't arguing with the window person over this kind of shooting the messenger?