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Good job Chris. Keep it up. I might not be in the loop about it... but has anyone else tried to get Amazon to answer these questions?
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@MostlyHarmless: Cory Doctorow has, as a precondition to making his books available specifically for the Kindle.
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The probably is you were dealing with an Amazon customer service rep who probably barely knows about DRM or any of the specifics of the kindle despite their title of \"kindle specialist\".
Last time I worked at a call center, they gave me three weeks of lame training, a knowledge base lacking quite a bit of important information and threw me to the wolves.
I was taking calls for a wireless provider and the trainers gave us absolutely no information regarding the contract whatsoever, just a copy to read over. They didn't explain about mandatory binding arbitration or materially adverse change clauses, in fact they didn't explain anything about the contract at all. I chose to self educate on this stuff, but it was NOT a requirement.
Bottom line, you were asking this guy questions to which he could not find answers in the knowledge base and so he said he'd have to ask someone else or \"pass your concerns along\" to try to placate you and get you off the phone.
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@dragonfire81: It's a good point, but I did this deliberately because it's the path the average consumer would take if he had the same questions. In addition, Amazon actually routed me from the front-line Kindle support CSR to this \"Kindle Specialist,\" who in fact didn't stammer or act surprised by any of my questions. He had answers to give me, it's just that the answers didn't convey any useful information.
DRM is utterly useless for the consumer. Most people who want to get around DRM can do so with a simple Google search. All these industries need to think of how they can add value not stifle innovation.
Very good article.
I particularly like #1. No one should be able to legally use the word \"buy\" if there are restrictions on how you can use the product after purchase. They should be required to use a term like \"lease\".
@brianary:
How is this a very good article? It told us nothing. It would have been better to wait until he got actual answers than to post an article with no useful information.
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It serves as a warning for those who are considering a Kindle purchase, does it not? Raises consciousness? Contributes to the ongoing discussion around DRM and its role in our lives as consumers?
@brianary:
The thing about it is that often times when you \"buy\" a hard copy of something there are restrictions on it but there was previously no way/ the copyright owner did not enforce the restrictions.
For instance, if you buy a book you technically under US Copyright Law probably could not make multiple copies of it even for your personal use. Or if you buy a CD you could not use it to play the song on your personal radio station or something (ie you have no public performance right).
Even more shocking - if you buy an original piece of artwork it is possible that you did not buy the underlying copyright so you may not be able to even reproduce that (like I said depending on how the transaction took place).
That is at least the argument the book publishers are going to make - ie that this is little different than if you bought a hard copy just now we have a way to control it. Though that is the argument it obviously hurts their public image and may not be good for business.
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It actually makes sense for him to consult the marketing department on Buy v Buy License - the marketing department surely has their hands all in the pie of how pages look.
I know it's not totally true but the way I'm reading this is Amazon is caught in a bad situation and they're only the middleman - unlike when a product is in their warehouse they have very little control over these products, and they vary greatly, whereas most physical products are very standard.
@coren: I think Amazon is in a bad situation as far as they're having to coax/cajole publishers into participating, while trying to avoid being painted with a Bad Guys brush over the DRM that's necessary to get publishers to even consider the Kindle.
That doesn't change that consumers have a right to know EVERY detail of a DRM scheme before they buy an affected product.
And really, it's been a while now; Amazon has had a lot of time to iron this out and we've been letting them sort of coast along on their otherwise exceptional reputation for customer service.
This is yet another instance where the only thing that works is for consumers to vote with their dollars.
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@tackhouse1: I am having a hard time convincing my wife that a Kindle will be a pain in the ass due to the DRM. For now, the Sony Ebook is on the slate for her for Xmas unless something better comes along.
@sleze69: That new Sony whatever-they're-calling it that comes out later this year looks promising. Still going to have DRM, sure, but it will also have 3G connectivity to a store on the device for instant purchases, which was the big Kindle advantage.
In addition, it will *eventually* (probably not by Christmas) allow for digital book checkouts with participating libraries. The odds that this will be a perk for your wife probably depend largely on whether you live near a city with a library system large enough or advanced enough to participate with Sony on this.
Finally, Sony's adoption of the ePub DRM from Adobe is at least a baby step towards creating a standardized format that will prevent further balkanization of the ebook market, whereas Amazon is being all proprietary and doing its damnedest to wall itself off from any other ebook technology (which is great for Amazon but bad for us).
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@tackhouse1:
The problem with voting with your dollars, is that it doesn't help the people who bought the device when it first came out. I bought the original kindle a little over a year ago, and I knew the published limitations, and found the restrictions would not be a hassle to me.
Now, that new information has come out, and if I had known it in the beginning, then I would never have bought the device. So, now what can I do? I have a device that is far more hobbled than I thought it would be, with content I can't use anywhere else. I trusted Amazon, and took their word for what the device could do.
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If you're not buying a permanent copy of the book, wouldn't it be better to just buy an actual book?
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@Vandelay Import Export: Im sure some people would look ridiculous carrying around 20 books with them wherever they went.
The Kindle does have it's place in this world, but will get replaced by something better.
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@Vandelay Import Export: No kidding. Then you can leave dog-eared copies of Gravity's Rainbow and \"Crash Proof\" in the guest bathroom so your wife's friend's snotty husband who thinks your non-financial job is \"quaint\" and that you've been throwing your money away on rent can spending his time leafing through it and pondering just how awesome you are.
@Vandelay Import Export: That's been my feeling too. Even if the DRM issues are resolved, until they make a Kindle cheap, waterproof, and weatherproof I'll stick with paper. I don't need to ruin hundreds of dollars of electronics when I drop my reader on the beach.
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I think the biggest problem is that Amazon is having to give in to the book manufacturers in order to be allowed to carry their books. Don't forget that paper publishers are still in the stone age in terms of digital distribution. They are where the music industry was probably a decade ago, so we have a few years yet until DRM starts to disappear.
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This is exactly why I refuse to buy a Kindle.
I highly suggest people stay away from the 800lb Gorilla in the eReader market, as well as Sony. There are several eReader's on the market, many with open source versions and DRM free Operating Systems.
Anyone who wants a eBook/eReader should first visit this site:
[wiki.mobileread.com]
That matrix alone is worth a look at the overall view of all electronic readers.
Secondly, the forum that created that site primarily is located here:
[www.mobileread.com]
I ended up buying an Astak EZ Reader Pro. Their readers humiliate anything Amazon has put out thus far.
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I no longer see Kindles or any ebook reader in the wild. ie afterschhol pick-up, soccer practice, ballet classes, gymnastics, karate. 3GS iPhones are in everyone (soccer-moms) hands in my little piece of suburbia.
Just like a paper book, I think it should be perfectly legal to make as many copies of an e-book as I want. This way I can give a copy of the book to all my friends and family. Wait, that's not legal with paper books? Then why should it be legal for e-books?
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Some things you can (legally) do with a paper book that you can't do with a kindle DRMbook:
Lend it to a friend
Donate it to the local library
Sell it to someone else
Also, it's unlikely a DRMbook will have the lifespan of a paper book. Paper books can last centuries. I wouldn't bet on being able to read a kindle purchase even 20 or 30 years in the future. Not sure whether a DRMbook can be inherited by a relative when you die, either.
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@LupusGray: No one wants to make copies to give to all their friends. Who ever said that they wanted to do that?
The big point here is that people want to be able to exercise their fair use rights, and they want disclosure as to what they can and cannot do with the item's that they're paying for, before they pay for it.
@Annath: Only an idiot can't figure out when you buy a Kindle that it's a proprietary \"book\" that will only go on your Kindle.
Kindle is a scam. It is particularly odious that they are trying to market them to college kids, to replace textbooks.
While electronic textbooks on e-readers are great and wonderful, the publishers are interested because students can't sell back used books. Kids are required to buy the books, so the prices are extraordinary. Publishers already have tricks like reodering problems or chapters to make sure every year is a new edition or version (check out James Stewart's Calculus, currently on 6th ed. with 6 versions thereof).
I'll never buy a Kindle nor assign a e-book in one of my classes (even as an option for students) until Amazon removes this sort of nonsense DRM.
I love my Kindle. In fact, I have two. Who cares if it has DRM? I can buy one Kindle book and put it on both my Kindles. What else do I need to do with it? Amazon is very clear upfront what you can and can't do with it. I'd rather filesharing not kill publishing like it has killed the music industry. Musicians can still tour and sell tshirts. Book authors don't sell too many tshirts.
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@johnfrombrooklyn: You might not care, but if (WHEN!) my book gets published, I don't want pissed-off people emailing ME about how they can't read it because their damn Kindle fracked up and they couldn't put it on another device, or it was recalled for some dumb shit reason, etc. etc.
I think it sucks and I will have LOTS of questions come contract time.
While you don't care about DRM, I do. How would you feel about having all of your books deleted by Amazon for no reason and with no warning? Sure they might refund you the cost of the books, sure you might be done reading many of them, but what about those you wanted to read again? What about the books you had yet to read? DRM gives them the power over what you've purchased.
You seem to have not read the article either, Amazon is NOT being very clear or very upfront about what you can and can't do. You are clearly wrong. They are not clearly telling you, you can only have this book on 3 devices. According to the article they only mention that you can have it on \"Up to 5 simultaneous devices\". Does Amazon clearly tell you how much of a book you can \"clip\" upfront.
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here is the thing - I also have a kindle, and while you sit there and say that you think it is horrible amazon can refund you the money and take the product back, i can agree...however, watch one single episode of the people's court and you will find that what they are doing is exactly what our laws are built around.
Courts are around making the consumer whole again - they undo the wronged transaction - that is exactly what amazon is doing. You cant put a price on something like that, because it really has no value. You are paying for an item - the item is taken, and you are refunded - it is impossible to refund you your emotional attachment, or your desire to read again - but thats not what the entire legal system of the US is based on....they are simply righting the wrong...and people are so upset over it.
As i said, I have a kindle - i love it...and have yet to have a single book \"recalled\"...but it really is good to know, as an OWNER, that if a book ever is recalled, I am getting a refund.
Now, if amazon was taking the books back and not refunding you, i could see there being a problem...
In simple terms... DONT BUY THE KINDLE! Get your ebook fix with a sony or other product. Getting locked into DRM is just stupid at this point.
I'm a little worried about the response received to the second question. Whatever CSA you got must have not been up-to-date in his knowledge, meaning perhaps he was new (Amazon is in ramp-up mode right now for Christmas time).
If the page for a book has a limit stated, that is the limit for that book. \"Simultaneous Device Usage: Up to 5 simultaneous devices, per publisher limits\" means that the publisher's limit is 5 devices. If no limit is stated on the page then the limit is six. If a limit is stated, then whatever is stated is the limit for that book. It's pretty simple, really.
@lalakl: Thanks for adding to the discussion. I hadn't realized that Amazon updated their Help section recently to clarify the publisher restrictions on device authorization You're right, I think the Kindle Specialist gave me incorrect info; he said ALL books were limited to 5 simultaneous devices, which bothered me because I knew it used to be (and actually still is) 6.
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Surprisingly, the Sony Reader is the most open e-book reader. It has native support for PDF files, EPUB files, TXT and Word DOC files, and a few other formats.
And you don't have to go through a wacky conversion process, like you do on the Kindle. Just plug the Sony Reader to your Windows, Mac, or Linux computer. It shows up as a USB storage device. Then just drag-n-drop.
It just works.
If you don't need the instant gratification of wireless book purchases, the Sony Reader is something to consider.
@LatherRinseRepeat: In my experience with both devices, purchasing books immediately on the device without needing a PC is game-changing.
I think Sony is doing the right thing by introducing its own 3G-equipped reader this fall. That's the one thing Amazon got 100% right in the Kindle.
As someone who works for a publisher and provides Kindle titles to Amazon, I'd like to set the record straight -
1. Publishers are not asked to set the device limit nor provided with any means to do so when adding a title to the Kindle store
2. Publishers are not asked to set a clipping/notes limit nor provided with any means to do so when adding a title to the Kindle store
It's discouraging to see so much ire directed at the publishers for prohibitive parameters that they actually do not control. Perhaps the author of this article and others should consider contacting some of the major publishing houses for their take on things.
DRM is stifling innovation. I will not be purchasing DRM protected media, ever.
@harvey_birdman: I guess the Kindle wasn't innovative.
@harvey_birdman: don't buy that HDTV with HDMI/DP, Computer, Cellphone, CD, TiVo, Dish/DirectTV, Cable...and the list goes on...