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smileboot
July 18, 2009 10:08 PM
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Woah. Thats totally the radio stations fault. Vonage should advise customers about this but the radio station having received an email before the time was up should honour the prize.

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Alessar
July 20, 2009 1:18 PM
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@smileboot: Agreed! And why would they block non-local calls? What about local people listening over the web or things like that?? If they want to restrict it to people in the local listening area... that's a different issue.

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italianscallion33
July 19, 2009 3:20 AM
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@smileboot: I betcha there's something in the contract for the contest saying the radio station isn't responsible for calling issues, etc., and will absolutely only honor the prize if the person makes it through on the PHONE within 10 minutes, but it would still be cool if they gave it to her.

Unfortunately, they probably just drew another name for the money.

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Skaperen
July 18, 2009 11:28 PM
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@smileboot: We need the name or call letters of the radio station so we can all do a mass EECB. That, or inform all the OTHER media about one of their competition still being stuck in the \"telephone stone age\" for using 1970's call segregation technology.

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DaveDidNotPay
July 19, 2009 3:28 AM
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@Skaperen:

Maybe this is it:

[www.mix1073fm.com]

Someone should check so we can verify that it's not just two radio stations in the same city running the same contest with the same prize and the same call-in interval.

Regardless of if this is the radio station or not, this radio station covered its rear-end quite well:

4.Telephone and Delivery Disclaimer. Participants are restricted to the use of ordinary telephone equipment. Only calls to 1-800-727-1073 will be eligible to win. The Company disclaims all liability for the inability of a participant to complete or continue a telephone call due to equipment malfunction, busy lines, inadvertent disconnections, traffic congestion on telephone lines, power outages and acts beyond the Company's control, or otherwise. Calls made from telephones with area codes outside the designated eligibility area may not be accepted.

Aside from the \"otherwise\" clause I would argue that VoIP is not \"ordinary telephone equipment.\" Personally, it gives me the willie nillies.

Regardless, since the station is giving away \"lots of cash\" perhaps they will agree that they have had a technological lapse of judgement and should pay up.

Or we could stick with the headline's opinion (blaming Vonage) and urge the radio station to inform its listener base that Vonage phone service will not work with their contest.

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Stephmo
July 19, 2009 3:37 PM
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@DaveDidNotPay: It looks like if you google a few other rules, some even go further in their boilerplate \"ordinary phone equipment clause\" and include this line -

Participants using equipment not set up for toll free phone exchanges (800, 888, 877, 866, etc.) may experience call connection problems.

So I imagine that the station is more than covered. Vonage usage is putting them in the SOL category. And I think we're forgetting something - Vonage isn't local phone service. You can get ANY number you want from Vonage no matter where you live. This is one of the differences between Vonage and your local cable-phone service. There are going to be a lot of things you'll never notice, but there will be things that you'll give up in exchange for the service.

Which makes me wonder - do you still have to do that 911 registration thing with Vonage? And I wonder if the person here has done that...because I hope they have at least done that before worrying about a radio contest.

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Corporate_guy
July 19, 2009 5:04 PM
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@Stephmo: May experience call connection problems is not the same thing as the station actively blocking calls from non local area codes. Which doesn't equal \"may\", it equals will be blocked and will not go through at all. If the station wants to actively block non local numbers, they need to specifically put that in the terms. That way the people know to break into a neighbors house to collect their prize.

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coren
July 19, 2009 7:28 AM
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@DaveDidNotPay: From what I read, they specify designated areas as cities, not area codes. Ther emight be wiggle room in that.

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coan_net
July 18, 2009 11:23 PM
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@smileboot: I agree. I would push the radio station to honor the contest and give them the prize.

They DID try to call in within the 10 minutes, but the radio station ADMITS to blocking their call!

What would I do? Well right now I would be debating weather to go the route of contacting a lawyer and going that way, or going to the rest of the media and try to make as big of a deal about it as possible - about how they gave them 10 minutes to call, but admits to blocking their call and not allowing them to call in from their home phone or cell phone. And that they even e-mailed the station within the 10 minutes to let them know of the issue of not being able to get through.

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chocobo
July 18, 2009 10:10 PM
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I think the radio station absolutely does owe him the money, UNLESS the fine print in the contest rules clearly states that you must be calling from a local phone number.

That's a really strange thing imo to block all non local callers... these days with people moving around but keeping their phone numbers, I know quite a few people who have a cell phone with a number from the city they lived in years ago.

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Skaperen
July 18, 2009 11:05 PM
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@chocobo: The problem is that given the features of phone systems these days, you can no longer depend on the caller's number to determine geography. The radio station is using 1970's technology. Their blocking of local calls is the FAIL.

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Stephmo
July 19, 2009 3:42 PM
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@Skaperen: 1970's technology?

Really?

Yes, because Vonage was invented in 1981. And adopted by 99% of the population by 1985.

How dare they be so behind the times?

Honestly, in 2006 only 3.5% of homes in the US were carrying Vonage. Vonage has some unique issues that make them non-local numbers - it's a \"feature\" they'll actually sell you. (You can have an LA number in St. Louis if you really want - or, more practically, a St. Louis number in Iraq.)

This is a bit like saying, 'OMG, you don't support Snuggie cycles on your washers?!?!!11! How 1950s!'

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pattiesmart
July 20, 2009 3:38 PM
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@Stephmo: Fine. 1990s technology. Because this issue actually affects those with cell phones. Many people don't have a cell phone with a local area code.

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EdnaLegume
July 18, 2009 10:46 PM
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@chocobo: even if the fine print says they must call from a local number, they did do just that. but because of the way the call was routed, it went through long distance channels. The OP did not know about this until investigating.

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squikysquiken
July 18, 2009 10:32 PM
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@chocobo: since the callee pays for the 1-800 call, it's not that strange to block long-distance calls (just like one can't usually hide their numbers when calling a 1-800 number) . I'd say it is penny-wise and pound-foolish in that situation.

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Preyfar
July 18, 2009 10:20 PM
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@chocobo: Agreed. Because the radio station blocked non-local calls, they blocked technology that defeated other issues and basically denied them the prize (albeit unintentionally).

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Anonymous
July 18, 2009 10:13 PM
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A lot of radio stations stream online in addition to broadcasting. If this particular station does, how is it any different than someone from the area listening somewhere else (business trip, vacation, etc) and calling in? Even if they don't stream online, a friend could have just as easily heard someone's name on the radio, called, and had the winner call in from out of the area. Blocking non-local calls can fail on several levels, and the radio station should pay up.

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coren
July 19, 2009 7:22 AM
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@ecwis: THey actually tried that, and it wasn't working either.

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doctor_cos wants you to remain calm
July 18, 2009 10:18 PM
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I don't use VOIP, and don't like it clogging up my inter tubes in the first place. Yeah, yeah, it doesn't take as much as other things, but when everyone's doing it...

And when your internet goes down with VOIP, how do you call to get it fixed?

You couldn't go to a neighbor's house? A pay phone (remember them)???

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shepd
July 20, 2009 1:39 PM
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@doctor_cos:

By now I expect the average size of a webpage (all embedded items included) is over 500 kb:

[www.websiteoptimization.com]

That's the equivalent of a (nearly) 6 minute phone call. Per page!

[en.wikipedia.org]

VoIP Clogging up the internet? I think never! Unless you like to surf and talk at the same time, if everyone on the internet was using VoIP at the same time and not surfing, the tubes would actually be LESS clogged (assuming you take about 5 minutes to read a webpage and click a new link).

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RandaPanda
July 19, 2009 11:41 PM
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@ecwis: Uh, they said they tried her cell phone, but got the same busy tone.

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ultimatecardsfan
July 19, 2009 6:28 PM
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@ecwis: meh, for the most part, if you've got a cell phone these days, there's no need for a home phone anyway.

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ovalseven
July 18, 2009 10:35 PM
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@doctor_cos: Sure, if she had only discovered the cause of the problem within the first 10 minutes.

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rinse
July 18, 2009 10:20 PM
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\"Radio Station Blocking Non-Local Calls Causes Vonage Customer To Miss $1,000 Giveaway\" seems like an equally valid headline...

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Dooley
July 18, 2009 10:53 PM
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@rinse:

I'm sure many other things are equally valid headlines, but there can only be ONE headline, and I think they got it right here.

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Skaperen
July 18, 2009 11:31 PM
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@Dooley: No ... it should be \"Radio Station uses stone age call segregation technology that FAILs to correctly recognize a local phone call that uses modern call origination methods\". But that headline would be a little long.

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Jeremy Milum
July 18, 2009 10:21 PM
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was her cell also not a local call, otherwise why did it get a busy signal as well?

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Skaperen
July 18, 2009 11:35 PM
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@Jeremy Milum: It may have been a \"fast busy\" reordering signal that most people do not distinguish from a busy signal. Both mean \"try again later\" so there's intention in making them sound similar. The implementation of the call blocking might have rerouted the (erroneously detected as non-local because of being based on phone numbers or area codes) call to a dummy trunk to dispose of it.

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Nicholas Todor
July 18, 2009 10:38 PM
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@Jeremy Milum: From the article, it sounds like the area code on the cell phone was not from the area where she was in.

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JennQPublic
July 18, 2009 11:29 PM
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@Nicholas Todor: My cell number is from my area code, but is still a \"local toll call\" from numbers in my town. It's been this way for ten years- and was very annoying ten years ago when my sister racked up a large phone bill by calling me the first month I had the phone.

Most cell phones out here (SF Bay Area) aren't \"local calls\" to the area they reside in.

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coren
July 19, 2009 7:23 AM
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@JennQPublic: I don't know what areas other than these do it, but there's a big chunk of Pittsburgh and outlying areas where that happens, and a huge swath of Western Washington that shares an area code that you still have to dial (with the one in front of course) to get a call (and it's LD then)

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Skaperen
July 18, 2009 11:05 PM
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@Nicholas Todor: Which is now perfectly valid portable numbering.

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Esquire99
July 18, 2009 10:22 PM
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They are owed nothing. I can't even understand why vonage gave them 2 free months. Digital services have limitations and voip isn't just like your old POTS line. It's also totally reasonable for the station to only accept local calls; radio has a limited service area, why do they need to pay for LD calls from NY or otherwise?

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wvFrugan
July 18, 2009 11:21 PM
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@Esquire99:
Why do you people continue to respond to this anti-consumer dick when he posts his nonsense? He's just seeking attention with his baiting. Ignore the troll.

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Esquire99
July 19, 2009 12:43 AM
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@wvFrugan:
ah yes, anyone with a contrary opinion is an \"anti-consumer dick.\" how very adult of you.

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wvFrugan
July 19, 2009 2:51 AM
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@Esquire99:


No esquire, just you, my insult was specific to you, you disingenuous FRAUD!

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twophrasebark
July 19, 2009 1:51 AM
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@Esquire99:

Since you seem to take inflammatory positions which you don't even bother to defend... that would meet the definition of trolling.

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The Black Bird
July 18, 2009 10:44 PM
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The radio station should pay her the money. I appears to me they put things in place to minimize their exposure so they don't have to pay out the money as ofter as they should.

I wouldn't be surprised if the station caused their own telephone number(s) to be busy during that 10 minute period. Please note, I'm not saying they did. I'm saying I wouldn't be surprised if we found out they did.

She should try to get the local newspapers involved. Maybe the station can be shamed into doing what's right.

I'm also curious to know if the station is a local independent station of part of a national company.

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Skaperen
July 18, 2009 11:08 PM
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@Bogart's Falcon aka Philly Falcon: I agree the the radio station is the culprit, here. If their intention was to just block callers outside their area, then they need to quit using 1970's technology to do it. With number portability, there is no way to do it based on the phone number. Unfortunately, there really is no way to do that.

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Esquire99
July 19, 2009 12:42 AM
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@Skaperen:
so the station should have to pay for LD calls just because people can port their numbers between carriers and regions? That doesn't make much sense.

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From the cubicle of PGibbons
July 19, 2009 6:46 PM
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@Esquire99: It's an 800 number. Ain't much difference (if any) for coming from the radio station's next-door neighbor or a caller from the other coast.

And if this radio station allegedly has \"lots of cash\" it's pretty hard to consider they might be worried about a couple pennies in extra fees on their 800# line because it got charged at the \"out of state\" tariff.

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Mythandros
July 19, 2009 10:44 PM
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@From the cubicle of PGibbons:


The radio station doesn't owe them anything, they were using a VOIP service. (Which is a poor choice to begin with, and covered by the terms of the contest, but I digress) Voip service has inherent limitations. The Radio station didn't put legal terms in it's contest specifically to keep them from calling in, it put them in to cover their backsides (like every other company that doesn't want a lawsuit.)


I say the station is faultless in this, it's the technological limitations of voip that are at fault here.


Too bad, so sad for the consumer. When you use a service you should be aware of its limitations, you can't claim ignorance later and boo-hoo your way to a consolation prize.


This is not an anti-comsumer view, (as some people use that ridiculous defense when someone doesn't agree with them) just my opinion. My two cents.


Don't like it? Too bad, go suck on a lemon.

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Mythandros
July 19, 2009 10:45 PM
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@From the cubicle of PGibbons:


Sorry, didn't mean to address my post specifically at you, PGibbons.. just an overall reply to the theme of the thread.

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subtlefrog
July 19, 2009 5:22 PM
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@Esquire99: It seems to me that the solution would be yes, they do - because there is a growing number of people who have only cell phones, and a lot of us don't want to change our number every time we move. So if radio stations don't want to piss off their listeners, then they should either use only a local number, which cell users could call without incurring LD charges, or an 800 number and not ban anyone. Since this station used the 800-number, then they should allow anyone to call it, or they effectively rule out a large number of people from calling. Unless their target audience is people above the age of 50, they shoot themselves in the foot by not accepting cell phones, etc. from other service areas.

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jamar0303
July 19, 2009 4:12 PM
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@Esquire99: Uh, since when was incoming LD charged differently than incoming local calls? And let's not forget that there are phones in the same area code that incur LD charges all the same.

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coren
July 19, 2009 7:24 AM
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@Esquire99: It's an 800 number. Are any calls long distance (or similarly, not long distance) to such a number?

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ovalseven
July 18, 2009 10:40 PM
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@Esquire99: Why provide a toll-free number if you're not willing to pay the toll? Why not just give out a local number for listeners to call?


I agree though... Vonage was very kind to offer 2 free months.

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italianscallion33
July 19, 2009 3:23 AM
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@BathroomDuck: Never heard of a radio station using an 800 number. Ours around here (Detroit) all have local numbers. :\\

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coren
July 19, 2009 7:25 AM
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@italianscallion33: My favorite local station always had an 800 number up til a few months back. I suspect now they took it out for similar reasons/as a cost cutting measure. Luckily, my phone now has unlimited long distance, so even though I'm out of area...

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twophrasebark
July 18, 2009 10:36 PM
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@Esquire99:

Her call was local.

Much in the same way that if you take your cellphone from one side of the country to the other, your call is from wherever you made it.

I mean, why don't we just start counting satellites and claim some people's calls are from outer space?

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kcvaliant
July 18, 2009 10:23 PM
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Perfectly acceptable for the station to block non-local calls..

As for people keeping their numbers and moving, that works both ways.. She could have had a local cell number and not live in the city and won the grand fraudulently..

The radio station under good will should give them some concert tickets or something.. And they should drop vonage if they do not like being routed through New York..

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ovalseven
July 18, 2009 11:12 PM
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Doesn't the blocking of non-local calls defeat the purpose of providing a toll-free number?


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sponica
July 19, 2009 3:18 PM
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@BathroomDuck: depends on the station and the service area....I imagine a DC station is received in 202, 703, 571, 301, 240 and the machine blocks calls originating outside of those area codes, which would not necessarily be local calls. I know in my old town, a local call was only within the town and the bordering towns sharing the same area code.

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italianscallion33
July 19, 2009 3:27 AM
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@BathroomDuck: It's toll-free to the caller, not to the callee (the station). Many companies who have 800 numbers do it as a service to customers so that the customers can actually call them. The radio station: I have no idea why they use an 800 number. Kind of stupid. All the ones where I live use local #s.

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Summermodoin'_GitEmSteveDave
July 20, 2009 10:40 AM
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@italianscallion33: If it's a station that plays to office drones, a toll free number can be dialed by mostly any employee. Some limit toll or local calls.

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Stephmo
July 19, 2009 3:48 PM
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@italianscallion33: I imagine they use an 800 number because the station is probably not really in D.C. And they keep the prize calls limited to the \"listening area\" for giveaway purposes.

If it's owned by ClearChannel or something similar, the odds that they get routed to some central office are pretty good. They may have a few local shows, but everything else is handled by that central office for accounting purposes. Including prizes. Sad, but true.

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From the cubicle of PGibbons
July 19, 2009 6:49 PM
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@Stephmo: Clear Channel worrying about \"local\" callers would be the height of hypocrisy (or irony or something like that).

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Skaperen
July 18, 2009 11:11 PM
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@kcvaliant: Blocking non-local calls is fine ... if there is a way to do it reliably. There was in the 1970's. Today, there simply isn't. Basing the origin of a call on the number in the ANI does not accomplish geographic location.

People who used to live in another area can now keep their number when they move to D.C. The radio station's FAILED technology won't know how to correctly allow it through as the local call it is.

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ovalseven
July 18, 2009 10:25 PM
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I'd be more upset with the radio station than Vonage. The listener did what she was supposed to do. It's not her fault, or Vonage's that the radio station blocked her call.

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Skaperen
July 18, 2009 11:12 PM
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@BathroomDuck: So is it the radio station's fault for using old 1970's technology of checking ANI data for area codes ... that today don't mean squat?

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KStrike155
July 18, 2009 10:26 PM
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I've been living in the MA area for a few years now and still have a CT number. Hope this never happens to me...

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squikysquiken
July 18, 2009 10:29 PM
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I blame the radio. It didn't work with Vonage, didn't work with their cellphones and probably wouldn't even have work from some \"hard\" landlines. These days, it's pretty much impossible to tell if a number is local, and people stopped caring with the advent of unlimited or per minutes nationwide calling plans.

My in-laws' home phone is not local to the city that is their postal address (and closest to them). However, calls are local to a city 3 times as far and even though everybody is in the same area code.

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From the cubicle of PGibbons
July 19, 2009 6:50 PM
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@squikysquiken: They should have just found a local pay phone in that generous 10 minutes.

Oh...

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jan_itor
July 18, 2009 10:30 PM
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\"She tried calling from her cell phone and got a busy signal.\"

....

\"Around 30 minutes later, a producer wrote her back, and that led to several emails back and forth and they guaranteed us there was no way the phone lines were busy at that time.\"

So if Vonage was the problem...why couldn't she get through on her cell phone???

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EdnaLegume
July 18, 2009 10:48 PM
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@jan_itor: it wasn't a LOCAL CALL. all non local calls are blocked to the radio station. apparently her cell has a different area code.

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Skaperen
July 18, 2009 11:16 PM
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@EdnaLegume: If they made the call while in the local area, and on a phone subscribed to by their domicile in the local area, then it was a LOCAL CALL, no matter what the phone number or area code number is. Using old 1970's technology to block calls as non-local based on area code DOES NOT WORK in the 21st century. The radio station needs to get a clue. There is no simple low cost means to determine if a call is local now days. This is a problem entirely of the radio station's choosing or design. They need to admit to using technology that does not accomplish the intentions.

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coren
July 19, 2009 7:32 AM
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@Skaperen: The rule states you must call from a number within the designated eligibility area (paraphrased -assuming the correct radio site was found). If their number was ported from outside the area, say this was in PA and they had a number from CA, they're disqualified, outdated technology or no. Further, it states you must also use \"normal\" equipment, which a Vonage account might not consist of, defeating them on that front as well. They have a case.

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Corporate_guy
July 19, 2009 5:12 PM
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@coren: That is not the rules. The rules say you need to us \"ordinary\" phone equipment. You easily meet that if a normal phone is being used with your VoIP. And said non local area codes \"may\" experience connection problems. Actively blocking non local area codes is not a \"may\", it's we actively block non local area codes and your call will not go trough and you are not eligible with that number.

Their terms do not say they are actively blocking non local area codes. But vonage treated 1-800 numbers differently, so the people did have a local area code.

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coren
July 19, 2009 5:43 PM
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@Corporate_guy: Ordinary/normal. IMO the same thing, but ok. You say ordinary is voip, the radio station gets to define it how they want - and I don't think that voip has the penetration required to qualify as ordinary. Someone else said 3.5 percent as of 2006 - I don't know if that figure is accurate or how much it would have changed since then if it were, but say that it is - that's not enough people for it to be ordinary (in this case, surely meant to mean common - so voip, skype, that sort of thing could be excluded)

\"Calls made from telephones with area codes outside the designated eligibility area may not be accepted.\"

That doesn't say connection problems, that says \"we have the option to not take your call if you're not within our predefined area\" - which is a moot point because this is the Vonage number we're talking about. It's a matter of if that qualifies as ordinary or not - if it does, they're owed the money, and if not, they aren't. IMO.

(how weird is it that I'm defending the business (in this case probably a corporate owned radio station) and you're defending the customer?)

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From the cubicle of PGibbons
July 19, 2009 7:17 PM
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@coren: What's the penetration of cell phones in 2009? Would a reasonable person consider them \"normal\" methods of phone communication? Certainly the folks who owned pay phones seem to think they had an impact by now...

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coren
July 19, 2009 7:42 PM
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@From the cubicle of PGibbons: I didn't suggest a cell phone was not normal. the problem is, the cell phone seems to have an area code that is not assigned to the area designated by the radio station, which means it wouldn't qualify either.

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coren
July 19, 2009 5:36 PM
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@Stephmo: Yes that's all very well that it isn't extending everywhere, but the technology he's referring to is blocking numbers simply by their area codes, I believe, which has nothing to do with how widely used Vonage is. And if you don't actually live in the area code(s) in question but just have a number from there (which is what I think you were getting at at with the St Louis number anywhere idea) you're disqualified anyway.

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EdnaLegume
July 19, 2009 2:13 AM
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@Skaperen: you're assuming the phone is subscribed to their CURRENT local domicile. It's quite conceivable that they've had their number for many years and have since moved. also:

\"The radio station was blocking non-local numbers from calling their 800 number, which explained why our cells were getting busy signals,\" quoted from the OP.

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frank64
July 18, 2009 10:30 PM
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I would think more than enough goodwill would be generated for the radio station to give them the $1000. Not giving kind of negates some of the purpose and tone of the contest.

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KingPsyz
July 18, 2009 10:41 PM
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That radio station needs to pony up, unless they told those entering that VOIP calls and out of area cell phones would be blocked than I would think they would be in violation of some of the laws/codes regarding sweepstakes and contests.


It would also go a long way toward earning some much needed community goodwill for a business headed the way of the dodo.

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coren
July 19, 2009 7:34 AM
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@KingPsyz here for HappyFunKingPsyz©: They did seem to indicate on their site that such devices would be reasons for disqualification.

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Outrun1986
July 18, 2009 11:25 PM
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@KingPsyz here for HappyFunKingPsyz©: Most contest rules and regulations say any technical glitches or glitches with the phone system are not the fault of the station, and there will not be any compensation should a glitch occur. This would likely fall under that category, however check the rules carefully, if there is nothing like that in the rules then you might have a fighting chance.

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From the cubicle of PGibbons
July 19, 2009 7:21 PM
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@Outrun1986: Ain't no \"technical glitch\" in this instance. It's an undocumented active *blocking* that the station was doing.

Is this station still spinning LPs in a smoky room staffed by a DJ wacked out on coke, or has it made some upgrades of its own since 1970? Does the station still use strictly POTS all the way, or have they also evolved their communications network? WTF do they pay off the $1000 in - Silver Certificates or something?

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Wes Chevalier
July 19, 2009 2:20 AM
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@Outrun1986: This was not a glitch all equipment sounds like it was working as intended, IE the radio station intentionally blocked her call.

She called from her cell phone which is non-local phone number but called from within the local area. She used her Vonage phone which has a local phone number but actually comes from a non local location. The station blocked both of these intentionally.

In order for this to fly the rules would have to state that they have the right to refuse the prize to anyone even after they claim it.

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coren
July 19, 2009 7:34 AM
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@Wes Chevalier: Because the Vonage routes it's call via another number and thus appears not local. The cell being from out of area invalidates it, the Vonage being not a cell/landline invalidates it. According to their rules, at least.

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KingPsyz
July 18, 2009 11:45 PM
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@Outrun1986: Thing is they did contact the station within the alloted time to let them know they were attempting to call but couldn't get through and unless 5000 people share her name and contact info it shouldn't have been a problem.


I get the feeling it's the station limiting who collects as per some other comments to reduce overhead of the promotion.

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Skaperen
July 18, 2009 11:21 PM
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@KingPsyz here for HappyFunKingPsyz©: Do you mean \"phones with a phone number originally acquired outside of the DC area, despite being local to the DC area now as a result of the owner taking advantage of number portability to keep their original phone number despite moving to the DC area\" ?

If jurisdiction is an issue, they will need to make the rule be that if the \"winner\" cannot prove legal domicile in the specified area, the \"win\" is void and the prize forfeited. Phone NUMBERS no longer have this info. They need to show a drivers license, apartment lease, or bill of sale for a new home ... in the area ... to collect.

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Draconianspark
July 18, 2009 10:46 PM
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She couldn't have gone to a payphone / neighbor's house?

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3 replies
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Speak
July 18, 2009 11:09 PM
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@Draconianspark: Almost all my neighbors have cell phones (each with their various non-local area codes). I guess I could run to the pay phone down the street. If the couple had known what was happening, I'm sure they could have done that. But they probably spent several minutes trying to call through Vonage, several minutes calling on their cell, and another few minutes tracking down the radio show's contact so they could send an e-mail after realizing they weren't going to get through by phone. Ten minutes is not a lot of time at all.

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catastrophegirl chooses not to fly
July 19, 2009 1:36 AM
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@Speak: yeah, in ten minutes i couldn't get to the closest working payphone to me by car. payphones aren't common in my area at all because most people have cell phones.

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From the cubicle of PGibbons
July 19, 2009 7:22 PM
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@catastrophegirl - sometimes makes typos and doesn't care: In other words - land lines are less \"normal\" nowadays than cell phones. Case closed!

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cecilpl
July 18, 2009 10:57 PM
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@Draconianspark: You're listening to the radio, when they tell you they're going to give you $1000 if you call in the next 10 minutes. You do (from two different phones), but it's busy every time. I know the first thing I think is

\"Duh, of course the line isn't *actually* busy, my phone company is just mysteriously routing my call through New York and also the radio station is blocking calls from New York. I shouldn't do something reasonable like email them and let them know what's happening, but run over to my neighbour's house and try his phone! That's the ticket!\"

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switchblade saints
July 18, 2009 10:51 PM
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doesn't anyone work for a living anymore, or is everyone out for the quick buck.

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coren
July 19, 2009 7:36 AM
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@switchblade saints: Until I recently was out of a job, I worked for a living. I also won tickets to Cochella and Sasquatch (big music festivals) as well as the Offspring, No Doubt and Taking Back Sunday (no shots at my musical tastes please :P ). Since, I've almost won Outside Lands tickets, and have won Death Cab for Cutie and Snow Patrol tickets.

When someone is giving things away, there's no shame in attempting to get it.

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IfThenElvis
July 19, 2009 2:44 AM
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@switchblade saints: If the radio station want to limit winners to local residents then require ID after the fact - but if they want to limit winners period then they are following a smart 'blame it on your phone company' strategy.

The OP's best bet is to name the radio station, get publicity, and shame them into coughing up. I bet their ratings would drop if listeners realized that listening to their station all day, hoping their name will be called, is useless due to their telephone shenanigans.

Contests & sweepstakes et al are governed by state regulations. Find out what the rules are in DC. Each state has different laws.

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KingPsyz
July 18, 2009 11:08 PM
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@switchblade saints: So if someone offered you $1,000 for doing what you do already you'd say no?

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Anathema777
July 18, 2009 11:03 PM
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@switchblade saints: You can have a job and still want to win an extra buck.

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Mike8813
July 18, 2009 10:58 PM
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@switchblade saints: You don't have to be \"out for a quick buck\" to accept the winnings of a sweepstakes. Do you realize that it's possible to have a job AND enjoy the radio? And to also enter fun contests from your favorite radio station?

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Brent
July 18, 2009 10:52 PM
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If the only way a caller can get through is by using a local landline, the radio station may be using this strange system to intentionally block winning calls. Most people today use cell phones, not landlines, right? I'd bet she's not the first 'winner' to be thwarted by this problem.

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Kogenta
July 19, 2009 12:28 AM
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@Brent: Seems like it was just blocking non-local numbers. If you had a cell phone that had a number that was \"local\" I don't think there would have been a problem. I think the thing is, their phone was not dialing through with a DC area code, and using outdated tech, it probably just looked at the area code or something.

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legwork
July 18, 2009 10:57 PM
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What's funny is many 800 service providers charge more for local toll-free service than for interstate. There might be some bonus deal from their local phone company but I doubt it. These contests usually cause them more grief in overloading their systems than they'd ever recoup.

My guess is the station is using piss-poor defense against professional prize seekers. The radio station really should pay up.

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Skaperen
July 18, 2009 11:24 PM
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@legwork: In many cities, radio stations are usually connected to a special dedicated phone switch if they are going to conduct a \"mass call in\" type of contest. That way the aggregation of all the calls doesn't tie up regular trunks.

OTOH, for contests where they pick a name, announce it on the air, and give X minutes for that ONE person to call in, they won't need this feature.

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Skaperen
July 18, 2009 11:02 PM
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Number portability is very common these days. There is no longer such a thing as a \"local number\" that can be readily identified. The radio station is the culprit, here.

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FLEB
July 19, 2009 7:43 AM
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@Skaperen: If you're going to do something like porting your number into a different exchange or area code, you're going counter to the commonly-observed system. While consequences might be rare and minor, you can't blame the rest of the world, and ought to be ready to deal with them.

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From the cubicle of PGibbons
July 19, 2009 7:26 PM
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@FLEB: I don't know how it is for other carriers, but Sprint often has you program in a completely different number that stands in back of your regular number. I'm imagining that has something to do with routing and number portability and such, but don't know for sure. I've seen them do this on numbers that they've owned all along, too.

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Preyfar
July 18, 2009 11:24 PM
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@Skaperen: Yep, I'm in Virginia but have a PA (610) phone number. I've had the number for six years, don't want to give it up.

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cozymoses
July 18, 2009 11:09 PM
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I second the newspaper idea. Sure, DC is a big place and a story like this would probably get buried, but if she went to a smaller, \"weekly\" type paper...

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The Black Bird
July 18, 2009 11:21 PM
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@cozymoses: If a local newspaper does get involved maybe they can ask their readers if the same thing happened to any of them concerning this radio station during this promotion or any recent promotions they have had. If it turns out that many people have had problems such as the OP it should be looked into.

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Anonymous
July 18, 2009 11:11 PM
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After working in radio for 10 years. The way these contest works is that you announce one name they have X time to call back. THEY DO NOT OFFICALLY win until they confirm. Using a local number in common practice being that radio a radio cluster will do the same promotion in multiple cities and want local listers to win. However, this is the listeners fault. They probably did not read the fine print on thier vonage account that would tell them this. Or this is vonage's fault for not telling the customer how thier phone system works. They should be blamed because it is their fault for not supplying you actuall local number. They have rules about this because so many people can and have abused this. As much as it is awesome to blame the station. They really can not award you a prize because in fact you did not call from a local number. Also you were not entitled to the prize from the begining. But also it is about 700-800$ after taxes.

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PinkBox
July 20, 2009 12:35 PM
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@SheldonTabalisha: So why not get proof of address instead of a phone number?

I have an out of state number because of the type of business I deal in, but I am definitely still a local of the state I live in.

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From the cubicle of PGibbons
July 19, 2009 7:31 PM
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@SheldonTabalisha: I can somewhat forgive the Vonage fiasco, VOIP has many procedures and processes that will vary.

However, what about the cell phone issue? Gramma ain't always sitting back knitting by her princess phone waiting on Wally Phillips to call her name for the prize anymore. I find it hard to believe that a radio station would exclude anyone who uses a cell phone from participating - seems people who have given up their landline in favor of more expensive mobile technology would likely be their \"target listening demographic\" anyway.

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Trai_Dep
July 19, 2009 12:01 PM
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@SheldonTabalisha: THANK you. A shame that it took until the second page for a reasonable view on this to appear.
If you use new technology, it's on you to uncover the wrinkles embedded in it. It's hard to blame either the radio station (who, as you point out, mandate that the caller contact them, no excuses) or Vonage, who disclosed the details (albeit in 8pt type, surely).
It's like novice cell phone owners discovering 411 isn't free, or local.
It must ache to be the poster, don't get me wrong. But they should consider it tuition. Every new product has its drawbacks and benefits and while it must sting when situations like this happen, it's the consumer's responsibility to investigate.

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liz.lemonade
July 18, 2009 11:11 PM
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I assume that she could provide documentation via cellphone and Vonage bills that she attempted the calls within the allotted ten minutes, and that the calls were denied by the radio station. If she wants to get lawyers involved, I'd think that would be enough to win in small claims court.

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Esquire99
July 19, 2009 12:46 AM
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@liz.lemonade: @liz.lemonade: She didn't comply with the terms necessary to win the money. The fact her choice of non-standard technology prevented her from doing so is entirely her fault.

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Trai_Dep
July 19, 2009 12:05 PM
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@Esquire99: I agree.
It frustrates sometimes, and it's a chore. But it's incumbent on users of new technology (VOIP, not cell phones, although both count) to understand the benefits and drawbacks of them. She assumed that it'd be the same as POTS, and vastly misunderstood how cell phones work (your number, not your location, decide what a local call is). A shame. But perhaps she can chalk it to experience.

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John Wayne Barclay III
July 19, 2009 1:16 AM
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@Esquire99: Cellphones, they're non-standard technology. You heard it from Esquire99 first.

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From the cubicle of PGibbons
July 19, 2009 7:34 PM
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@John Wayne Barclay III: If it ain't paper cup and string, it's \"non-standard.\" Fire up the old Victrola and spin that wax, modern radio station.

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FLEB
July 19, 2009 7:45 AM
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@John Wayne Barclay III: No, VOIP (that routes through a different area code) was non-standard technology. Cellphones were standard technology giving an out-of-local phone number.

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Cant_stop_the_rock
July 19, 2009 12:33 AM
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@liz.lemonade:

I'm surprised that the radio station wasn't lenient considering that she e-mailed before the 10 minutes expired and said she was trying to call.

It's certainly not Vonage's fault this happened. They could just as easily blame themselves for having non-local cell phone numbers. This is just an unfortunate event that happened due to technologies having certain limitations. When I tried Skype-out a while back I was disappointed to find that that the number that showed up with caller ID was not your Skype-in number. At the time they said they were working on correcting this, so maybe that has changed by now. Many people don't answer calls from unknown numbers, so having a different number show up on caller ID each time makes Skype-out less useful.

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JennQPublic
July 18, 2009 11:31 PM
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@liz.lemonade: If she took it to small claims court, she wouldn't need a lawyer. :-)

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mbd
July 18, 2009 11:16 PM
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Actually, as I read this, her call was not local as far as the radio station is concerned. They are paying for the call, and do to the routing, they were being charged for a call from NY. How Vontage internally routs the call should be irrelevant, the station should see and be billed for the local call. It appears that this is not the case.

On the other hand, since the cell phone did not work either, there may have been some other non related issue going on with the radio station's phone lines.

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PinkBox
July 20, 2009 12:37 PM
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@mbd: How is the radio station paying for the call when she was calling them and not the other way around?

I have an out of state number, and everyone I call locally definitely doesn't have to pay to talk to me.

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torgonius
July 18, 2009 11:26 PM
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Hit paydirt with K-Dirt!

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wvFrugan
July 18, 2009 11:27 PM
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This is another example of why when comparing phone service technology that not just $ is important, you are comparing apples (land line) to oranges (VOIP) to grapes (cellular). Even within each catagory of technology there can be variations based on the specific provider.

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Matthew Sadler
July 18, 2009 11:33 PM
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Hey, at least they only lost out on a radio station contest. I'd bet that they don't have working 9-1-1 service on that Vonage line either.

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MyTQuinn
July 18, 2009 11:49 PM
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There aren't enough details in the story to assign blame. The ANI received by the station SHOULD have indicated the calling number, regardless of how the call was routed. If Vonage provided inaccurate ANI then Vonage is at fault. If Vonage provided accurate ANI, and the calling number was misidentified as non-local, then the station or their service provider are to blame.

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STrRedWolf
July 18, 2009 11:50 PM
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I would contact the Washington Post first, to get both Vontage and the radio station's attention and on the same page. It also would serve as a warning to other VoIP providers.

And drop VoIP for your primary number.

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icantreplyright
July 19, 2009 12:26 AM
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I'd call a local news station and see if they will help :) nothing like some bad publicity over $1000 to get a station to pay up.

Stations contest, stations rules. She did not call in, they do not have her excited call, she does not get the money. Doesn't matter that she had vonage.

Thats like saying \"I would have beat you to the finish line but I had to stop and tie my off brand shoes\". Well guess what, you didn't make it to the finish line because of your off brand shoes. If you wanted to finish first you shouldn't have cut corners.

I like vonage.

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JediJohn82
July 19, 2009 3:34 AM
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@icantreplyright:

I guess radio stations could start block all calls...then they'd never need to pay-up since they would never get anyone's \"excited call\".

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Rhainor
July 19, 2009 12:27 AM
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I say the station and Vonage should split the difference and each pay up $500. They were both at fault; the station for only accepting local calls when they should realize they might get seemingly non-local calls from people who were actually local, and Vonage for killing their chances at winning with their stupid routing policy.

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Damocles57
July 19, 2009 1:13 AM
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@Rhainor:
Actually, the call was local. The routing of the call and coding of it, were not. I wonder what would have happened had she blocked her number when dialing? It would have appeared as Unknown or Private or Blocked at the radio station. Would that have allowed the call to be completed?


Assuming the contest was open only to people within a certain geographic area, then the OP's wife qualified. She attempted to make the call from within her geographic area. An unintended consequence on the part of the radio station and Vonage prevented completion of her call.


If she were to call 911, would the call center assume she was from out of the area? Where would they dispatch the appropriate emergency services?


Perhaps to be fair to all, maybe a 3-way split. The users of Vonage may bear some responsibility for how their calls are routed as they purchased the system; Vonage for not routing the local number to other local receivers; and the radio for trying to restrict out of area calls but instead restricing calls routed outside of their area. Each would assume $333.33 worth of liability. The OP's wife gets $666.66 instead of $1000 and has learned a $333.34 lesson about VoIP.

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StanTheManDean
July 19, 2009 12:31 AM
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Sorry, the Radio Station is going to win this one.


Radio Station promotions are heavily regulated by Uncle Sam.


The Radio Station published and posted the terms of the promotion at the business office of the radio station.


At legally required intervals the Radio Station instructed the public of the terms of the promotion OR referred the public to review the terms at the business office of the Radio Station during normal business hours.


The terms limit the liability of the radio station due to contestants inelgibility, inability to contact the radio station, acts of god etc.


The Radio Station will bring a copy of the Uncle Sam regs, their complaince with the regs as well as their published terms. The judge will promptly dismiss the lawsuit.


So, let's go sue the VOIP provider.


Sorry, you lost that one as well.


Somewhere in the VOIP agreement there will be a statement restricting liability should service not be available.


Most prudent people are aware of this statement of limited responsibility with regards to 911 service.


So who is left?


Cell Phone company? Same terms as the VOIP provider. Lovely mouse print that limits their liability.


Who is left?


The State and/or Uncle Sam.


There might be a claim against the State (Washington DC) for failure to properly port the number from one system to another.


MIGHT. I suspect Uncle Sam has already written the regs to protect his backside against these claims.


Remember, those who write the terms get to keep the $.

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From the cubicle of PGibbons
July 19, 2009 7:43 PM
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@StanTheManDean: Instead of trying to call, OP should have turned on her computer and read through the pages of \"terms\" that basically will say that the terms she heard on the radio are completely invalid unless you still have a POTS landline.

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Trai_Dep
July 19, 2009 12:07 PM
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@StanTheManDean: Who's left?
The consumer, for (unfortunately) misunderstanding the technology that she utilized.

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StanTheManDean
July 19, 2009 12:34 AM
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@StanTheManDean:


PS: If the radio station rewards her with some $, it will be a PR move on their part that will open them up to extortion attempts on future contests.

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DaveDidNotPay
July 19, 2009 3:39 AM
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@StanTheManDean:

Publicity such as that which the Consumerist brings often results in PR stunts. The hassle of EECBs often do the same.

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savdavid
July 19, 2009 1:09 AM
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I wonder if the radio station is supposed to know all the rules of every phone carrier? If they are required to be aware of each rule by law, then they owe the man. If not, it is just plain bad luck for the man, nothing more. How many people bail YOU out when something goes wrong but no laws were broken?

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JollyJumjuck
July 19, 2009 1:27 AM
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No surprise here. For years I've tried to call into various radio contests, whether it's for money or a free pizza. Inevitably I always get a busy signal, and the rare times I can get the phone to ring, it rings endlessly and no one picks it up.

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tz
July 19, 2009 2:45 AM
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I don't think the radio station would win even if they had the normal fine print.

Unless they specifically said you would need to call from a land-line with details about which phones would work and which would not, they basically blocked the winner from being able to win.

If I gave you \"one hour to pick up the prize\", but you would have to go through two locked gates and past a vicious guard dog, you would consider it cheating.

Or if they simply refused to pick up the phone, would that be enough to disqualify someone repeatedly dialing? It was the caller's responsibility to call the number given. It was the radio station's responsibility to ANSWER THE PHONE when called by the winner.

Also, IN ORDER TO BLOCK THE NUMBERS, THEY WOULD HAVE NEEDED TO READ THE NUMBERS and possibly record them - their telco might have records of the repeated attempts.

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DaveDidNotPay
July 19, 2009 3:35 AM
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@tz:

Given your \"pick up the prize\" scenario, if the rules stated:

\"The Company disclaims all liability for the inavility of a participant to pick up a prize due to blah, blah, blah, or otherwise,\" then I would say two locked gates and a vicious guard dog would not make them liable. You may call it cheating but hey, a contract is a contract.

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DovS
July 19, 2009 4:21 AM
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It might be a good idea for the radio station to verbally warn the listeners that only local calls are accepted so they should be sure to use a landline. Of course, unless this is a radio station which caters primarily to the elderly, blocking calls from celphones is probably a stupid move.


I can understand wanting to avoid the long distance charges on their 1-800 line but, if they are only accepting local calls, why are they using a 1-800 line anyway?


I don't think the radio station is legally in the wrong, just very inept at planning.

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Deezul_AwT
July 19, 2009 4:36 AM
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If anything, this person will have just excluded ALL VOIP people from winning, thus ruining it for everyone. The next time a radio station lists contest rules, they will say, \"Phone calls must come from a standard land line. VOIP or cell phones are excluded.\" And since I'm gonna keep my land line for a quite a while, it will increase my odds. So please, everyone, switch to VOIP!

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From the cubicle of PGibbons
July 19, 2009 8:11 PM
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@Deezul_AwT: \"Disclaimer: No users of VOIP, Cell Phones or other technology implemented after 1947 will be allowed to participate in this promotion. Have a nice day!\"

Someone ought to 'hip' this station to the newfangled LP formats too. Learning about CDs, tape racks or even WAV files would probably give them a heart attack.

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Lucky225
July 19, 2009 4:47 AM
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The BILLING TELEPHONE NUMBER for all calls routed through Vonage is a 646 number, the Radio Station has every right to not want to pay long distance \"collect\" charges back to New York numbers. It is neither Vonage or the Radio Station's fault that she chose to use a phone that is not a traditional phone service in an attempt to place calls. VoIP is great, but it's not perfect, on the other hand, when the radio station was alerted, they could have gave her a local pots line to call in if they didn't want to pay for the call on the toll-free.

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Michael Norton
July 19, 2009 5:01 AM
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Reminds me of the Simpsons, when Homer didn't win a prize because of the area code change, but Mr. Burns won it instead.

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LoadStar
July 19, 2009 7:26 AM
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A bit of clarification: The problem is that while you have a local telephone number, your ANI (Automatic Number Identification) indicates that the call is originating from a phone line at Vonage's headquarters in Holmdel, New Jersey (not New York as indicated in the story above), because that's where the interface between Vonage's VOIP network and the PSTN (Public Switched Telephone Network) occurs.

1-800 numbers use what is called Dialed Number Information Service (DNIS), which can use the ANI information to route your call, depending on whether or not it is a \"local\" call.

I had this problem once when I was calling up an insurance provider's toll free number (Allstate, if I recall correctly.) They use DNIS to route you to a insurance agent with experience in providing insurance to your state, and the associated state laws and regulations. Because my call from Vonage appeared to be coming from New Jersey, I got automatically routed to a New Jersey agent. It was quite confusing to both of us until I realized what happened, and asked to be manually routed to my state's agent.

The system is all working exactly how it should be. Unfortunately, this is just one thing to be aware of with national VoIP providers such as Vonage and others.

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coren
July 19, 2009 7:40 AM
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Ugh, I don't want to be, but the facts as I have them put me squarely in the radio station's favor. Upthread there's a link to the station. The rules say the number must be from the area they set forth (this number sounds as if it was out of area and ported) and using normal telephone equipment (I paraphrased). This would exclude both an out of area phone and Vonage.

It's shitty, but those are the rules, and supposedly everyone read them before they entered - you're supposed to.

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sponica
July 19, 2009 6:38 PM
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@coren: yeah, the reason why I never entered any radio contests while at grad school was that if i ever did win, my cell phone would have been blocked due to it being from north central MA and waaaay out of the listening area for NYC.

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RandomHookup
July 19, 2009 6:11 PM
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@coren: You are probably right, but there's no telling which side a judge might come down on. There's always room for interpretation, especially if you have local/state laws that cover these things plus precedence.

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coren
July 19, 2009 6:16 PM
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@RandomHookup: That's true - Vonage might be allowable if you got a tech savvy judge. Ditto the out of area number, but more likely the Vonage. Probably a moot point though, if this goes to small claims court someone's going to have picked up the story, and the radio station will pay out to avoid the publicity (if they hadn't already)

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StanTheManDean
July 19, 2009 9:32 PM
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@coren:


You mean an activist judge willing to ignore contract law, federal law as well as court precidents?

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coren
July 19, 2009 9:54 PM
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@StanTheManDean There are precedents and contract law that establish Vonage as non ordinary phone equipment? Because the determination of Vonage being ordinary or not (or Voip for that matter, not just Vonage) could make a difference - if Vonage/voip is considered ordinary then the station blocked a completely eligible winner by their standards (using ordinary equipment and calling from a local number)

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BillyDee_CT
July 19, 2009 10:46 AM
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In a day where radio stations stream their content, many stations have limitations stating that those outside the local area of their off-air signal coverage aren't eligible for their contests. It's quite possible the station in question does this sort of call blocking for this very reason. I know my local station has contest qualifier information they play every morning. While it may not be right in the eyes of the person who missed out, they should have done their homework when they signed up for VoIP phone service. There has always been noise about \"non-local\" calls - especially when it comes to 911 emergency calls. They probably went with VoIP to save money and they losing out on the contest was a result of their savings on their phone service, so they didn't lose $1k - they lost $1k MINUS all the money they saved by going with VoIP instead of traditional phone service!

Caveat emptor, baby!

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colineff
July 19, 2009 1:39 PM
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as far as i know radiostations do have local numbers and they could use that to accept calls instead of the 800?

but really its ari's fault for using a tech without fully understanding the limitations(things like no faxing, though i know vonage agents will lie and say stuff like that works )

plus dont they have cell phones?

doesnt everyone have a cellphone by now?

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pmcpa4
July 19, 2009 2:08 PM
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This is the Radio Station's fault, as it didn't work from their cell's either. Vonage & Cell companies are no fault here.

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elc32955
July 19, 2009 2:33 PM
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This sounds like an actionable item to take before the FCC by Vonage (on behalf of their subscriber, of course!) to force a declaratory ruling on whether radio stations can voluntarily call-block during their on-air contests, especially if you live within at least the 40dBu RF contour of the station. The days of plain & simple \"local numbers\" are over with portability and services like Smartjack, Vonage, and other VoIP carriers not to mention other local ALEC's all thrown into the mix. Ma Bell having an exclusive on local numbers is dead, just the regulatory end hasn't caught up yet on all aspects of the new technology.


I smell the potential for a rule-making case here folks, if someone has the moxie to push it and could afford a lawyer that can practice before the FCC. You might even find the right law firm to file this Pro Bono just for a little recognition...

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hypochondriac
July 19, 2009 3:39 PM
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The Radio station doesn't owe them a dime, assuming the rules posted before are correct. The radio station made it clear you have to call from a local number. It's Vonage's fault for routing the call through NY.

Also if Vonage informs it customers that 1800 calls are routed through NY it the customers fault for not reading the fine print.

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Haggie1
July 19, 2009 4:50 PM
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Why would routing the call anywhere impact whether the call was accepted by the radio station? No matter where the call was routed, the Caller ID would be the customer's number not some NY number.

I'm not buying the customer's story. I used Vonage for a couple of years. No matter who I called or where I called from, the person I was calling saw my caller ID.

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SacraBos
July 19, 2009 5:23 PM
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Radio station's fault. That the radio station did something that prohibited her from completing the requirements is not her fault.

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thelushie
July 19, 2009 7:55 PM
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If this 800 number issue was not told to them and it is not written anywhere, then it is Vonage's fault.


The radio station probably blocks non-local numbers because contests tend to end up on the internet and soccer moms and freebie hunters will be calling, winning,and then denied the prize. Headaches all around.

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West Coast Secessionist
July 19, 2009 9:05 PM
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That's what you get for using those vonage scumbags. Vonage should be nominated for WCIA next year. They do everything wrong, including never letting you cancel and charging way more than anyone else does for VOIP.

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ajadoniz
July 19, 2009 9:59 PM
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Blocking out non-locals is to keep out what in the radio industry are called 'prize-pigs'. These are people who scour the radio waves, local to neighboring states, in order to win the prize. they exist. and they wear crocs. i know, scary.

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thelushie
July 19, 2009 11:28 PM
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@ajadoniz: I have never heard that phrase before. Prize-pigs. I would like to expand the definition to include people on the internet who will lie about themselves to win a prize. Example, 20-something male, single, no kids who will enter a contest to win a stroller and in the process make up three kids.

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MikeVx
July 20, 2009 12:01 AM
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I'm trying to figure out why toll-free numbers even continue to exist. Other than to support pay phones, an increasingly rare commodity, I cannot see it. There is no reason other than sheer inertia to pay in-country long-distance anymore. I don't even pay per-minute to call the majority of the planet. The only remaining per-minute-billed calls I make are when traveling in Canada. I have a Canadian pre-paid SIM for my cell phone to keep those rates down, and a calling card to call back to the US. The cell-phone guys need to catch up.

The radio station badly needs to accept that the world has changed, because this problem is only going to get worse as time goes on. The static hard-wired land-line is on its way to becoming primarily a business feature, with individuals having such things becoming increasingly rare as even rural areas that get any form of broadband will start losing hard-wired phones to VoIP.

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RonDiaz
July 20, 2009 2:55 AM
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Considering most people don't even have a land line now, poor move on the radio stations part, I only have a cell phone and it still is the number of the last state I lived in.

The title of this story is bunk though, of course a VOIP provider is routing things through a central office, how do you think you are getting things so cheap.

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OneTrickPony
July 20, 2009 3:42 PM
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@RonDiaz: Well, yes, if you define the 20% of households with cell-only as \"most\" and the other 80% as \"the minority.\"

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CapitalC
July 20, 2009 3:37 AM
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Three words: Small claims court.

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PinkBox
July 20, 2009 12:34 PM
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The radio station has proof that she was listening in and tried to call at the right time. Isn't that the point of the contest?

They should honor the prize.

I understand that they want a sound bite for other listeners to hear the person at the moment they won - but come on!

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PinkBox
July 20, 2009 12:42 PM
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I don't understand the responses saying that the radio station would be footing the bill for an out of state number trying to call the station.

The radio station does not have to pay for incoming calls. The lady DID have a local number, and lived at a local address - therefore was valid for the prize.

The problem was that vonage routed the 800 number in a way that made it appear to be non-local.

Since she was a local, with a local number and DID contact the radio station letting them know she still couldn't get through, I DO believe the radio station should still honor the prize.

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dahlberg123
July 20, 2009 3:10 PM
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Maybe I am a conspiracy theory nut but is this the same \"Ari\" who's girlfriend just lost her underwear in San Fran [consumerist.com] ?

Sounds like someone is running out of story ideas.

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Anonymous
July 20, 2009 4:57 PM
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100% the radio station's fault... she tried from two different phones that work great for every other purpose she's ever had to use them, yet they couldn't connect to the radio station. How is that anybody's fault but the radio station? Other than possibly the phone company that sold the service to the radio station to block non-local numbers (whatever that's supposed to mean now days) without any reliable method of determining what numbers are or aren't local.

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Dyscord
July 20, 2009 11:01 PM
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I think the Radio Station is at fault here. I can understand accepting only local calls, but they said that their phones weren't busy at all. So why didn't the cell phone call go through?

Also, the email should be good enough for them. The point is to call in when your name is called or something like that. The email shows that you were listening.

Sounds like the Radio Station is being a little fishy and just lucked out that Vonage routes their calls.

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