var json_comments = new Array("
\"user-pic\"
DPGumby
July 31, 2009 12:15 PM
Moderate | Flag for review

Ahhhh, irony. I have to say, a very well done piece by John Oliver.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
TouchMyMonkey
July 31, 2009 12:23 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Sorry, Tim. If we have to endure the pain of lowered property values, so do you. Maybe you'll take this as a learning experience and fix the damn economy for the rest of us.

Reply
3 replies
\"user-pic\"
bwcbwc
July 31, 2009 7:51 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@HurtsSoGood: Who says he's enduring pain? For all we know he's in no hurry to sell, and simply has it on the market to sell at his asking price as soon as the market returns to those levels. 2004 was not the peak of the housing bubble by any means, so he could recover to that price level some time in late 2011-2012, assuming we actually have hit the price bottom in the real estate market.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
howie_in_az
July 31, 2009 5:40 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@HurtsSoGood: Now I understand everyone's shit's emotional right now. But I've got a 3 point plan that's going to fix EVERYTHING. Number 1: We've got this guy Timothy Geithner. Number 2: He's got a higher IQ than ANY MAN ALIVE. and Number 3: He's going to fix EVERYTHING.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
thebigbluecheez
August 1, 2009 8:09 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@howie_in_az: And he's gonna do it ALL...in ONE WEEK-ah!

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
Lincolnsbeard33
July 31, 2009 12:29 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

1.6 mil for less then half an acre. That must be one hell of a nice neighborhood. As for me unless it is beach front i would rather have a large stretch of land.

Reply
5 replies
\"user-pic\"
dernubenfrieken
August 1, 2009 4:21 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Lincolnsbeard33:
Yes, it is a damned nice neighborhood. I happen to live two blocks away. Its really close to both a school and a church, in a nice area. The house is pretty nice. And that is usual for the area. Maybe a bit high, but the property costs are absurdly high around here.
Also just for my ego, I'm actually in the same grade and school as his daughter, and I play frisbee with his son. The son is hilarious and funny as hell, and the daughter is the most dedicated and involved person I've ever met.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Ragman
July 31, 2009 2:04 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Lincolnsbeard33: No, that's 1.6 mil for a FIFTH of an acre. I live in 2200 sq ft on .16 acre, and I have a 6' lot line(which means the neighbors are 12' away on either side).

dgruzew, I'm not doubting it being unusual, just that it boggles my mind what the location cost is. The house itself likely isn't worth anything near that.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
CityGuySailing
July 31, 2009 12:39 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Lincolnsbeard33: It is a VERY nice neighborhood. Larchmont, Mamaroneck, Rye, etc... Shore area of Long Island Sound.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
sponica
July 31, 2009 1:04 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@CityGuySailing: not that you'd want to go in the sound....it might be cleaner but still it makes my skin crawl.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
rpm773
July 31, 2009 12:32 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

At least he's trying to rent the place out. But using a front-end ratio of 28% for a rental price of $7500/month, only someone making well over $300K/year would be realistically eligible.

It's a buyer's market, so why rent? Maybe an influx of labor to the NYC suburbs would have people looking for nice, short-term housing. However, I don't think the tax environment in New York is very inviting right now to people making that kind of scratch. Good luck, Tim.

Reply
","","
\"user-pic\"
ZeGoggles
July 31, 2009 12:43 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

\"..after a bidding war..\"


I know how that feels. I got tired of these bidding wars and just made the decision to stay in the apartment another year. These bidding wars turn into an \"American team event\". A team event in the sense that we all help each other to get houses we cannot afford.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
nnj
July 31, 2009 12:49 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Personally, I think it's funny. How could such a thing happen to him? Once the price is low enough, it will sell in a heartbeat....dontcha think?

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
ExtraCelestial
July 31, 2009 12:53 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Is it ok to blame the OP if the OP is Timothy Geither?


I have zero sympathy for people that make \"investments\" based on emotions and are shocked when their investments don't come to fruition. If you want to pay more for a house that you love, fine, but don't be foolish enough to think that you'll get that money back out of it. It reminds me of the people on My House is Worth What?. Yeah no, you won't be getting back that $65k you put into an in-ground wave pool in the backyard of your one bedroom house in Michigan. I mean, really?

Reply
6 replies
\"user-pic\"
Ebriosa
July 31, 2009 1:59 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@TinkishDelight: Oh true, and it's so often a pool. Most people going for lower priced houses do not want to pay for the maintenence on a pool and it's actually something that will decrease the price they'll pay for a property, rather than the opposite. Consumer Reports had an article a while ago on what percentage of money towards different types of renovations could bring to an asking price - even kitchens weren't 100%, let alone more frivilous renos.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Dondegroovily
July 31, 2009 1:55 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@TinkishDelight: But he lived there, so it wasn't an investment, it was a house.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Real Cheese Flavor
July 31, 2009 1:17 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@TinkishDelight: I honestly believe that this played a major part in the mortgage meltdown.

People stopped seeing houses as places where one could live and raise a family and instead saw them as a commodity that you bought, hung onto for a few years, and then sold for a tidy profit.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
jessedybka
July 31, 2009 1:10 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@TinkishDelight: I saw a house not that long ago in a not very fancy, not at all new suburb. The owners had absolutely transformed the inside of the house and put about $40k into the renovations, then were shocked that they couldn't sell their house for $40k more than their neighbours. Some people just don't get it.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!)
July 31, 2009 2:41 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@jessedybka: I have to keep explaining this to my husband about basements. He's never lived where there's a basement before, and he doesn't get that a \"finished basement\" doesn't need to be \"niced-up\" because NOBODY'S GOING TO PAY FOR THAT SHIT in resale. You just throw some crap on the floor and walls and, bam, finished.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
OneBigPear
July 31, 2009 3:13 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!): We're in this right now too. Our place is in what I lovingly refer to as \"Hoboville.\" So we're not finishing our basement (we had thought about it though), just making sure it's clean and tidy and usable. Now if I can the husband to realize that re-doing the flooring on the main level with a PREMIUM laminate it a total waste of money.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
chiieddy
July 31, 2009 3:50 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@WendelWindiesPermaGrey: My favorite is when someone throws a half-bath into the basement and then advertises their house as having 1.5 bathrooms.

Basement bathrooms require a pump on the toilet to make sure the flow goes UP the pipes into the sewer. These have a tendency to break, rendering your 1/2 bath useless.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
catastrophegirl chooses not to fly
July 31, 2009 9:44 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@chiieddy: around where i live it's hilly and a lot of basements are \"ground level\" on the rear or side of the house - sewer is still located under the basement in the majority of those cases and mother-in-law apartments in the basement are quite common

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Saltillopunk
July 31, 2009 8:20 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@chiieddy: The need for a pump is a generalization based on location/consturction. In many locations, the plumbing that takes the waste out to the main sewer is actually under the basement foundation. The basement can be prepped with the proper drains, or a portion of the floor can be broken out to tap into the drain. Thus no pump is needed for a basement bathroom.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Ragman
July 31, 2009 2:09 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@jessedybka: Some people watch shows like \"Flip this house(?)\". I saw the one where the dips#!^ HS counselor bought the termite ridden 1920s bungalow for $500,000, dumped about $250,000 (he didn't track his expenses) into basically rebuilding from scratch, and the experts thought he'd be lucky to get his money back. Then somebody bought it for 1 million. I think that sent the wrong message out to a lot of people that flipping houses was a sure thing even if you didn't really know what you were doing.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
RecordStoreToughGuy_starcommandseries.com
July 31, 2009 2:50 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Ragman: People have made small fortunes doing just that, but they are pretty savvy. It's not really something an average Joe who's seen a couple of eps of FTH could parley into a living.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
HiPwr
July 31, 2009 1:04 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

He should consult Chris Dodd or Charlie Rangel. They do quite well in the housing market.

Reply
1 replies
\"user-pic\"
ARP
July 31, 2009 1:33 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@HiPwr: Welll Played, Sir. Have they figured out what interest/fees they paid (if any)?

Reply
","","
\"user-pic\"
I Love New Jersey
July 31, 2009 1:07 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

They probably can't clean all the filth out of the house.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
NotChoinski
July 31, 2009 1:07 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

plunking down $1.601 million after a bidding war.


So by getting into a bidding war, it seems the purchase price was already artifically inflated, by the buyer.

Reply
","","
\"user-pic\"
gaywolverine
July 31, 2009 1:10 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

I am not sure where it says Geithner is shocked or did anything out of emotion. He can put his house on the market for whatever he wants. He has the ability to afford it, and not worry about foreclosure or losing it the way most people would. Maybe his position is, I am not going to lose my ass on the house and I can keep it until the market rebounds. Since mortgage interest is taxdeductible, which is a crime itself, he can do what he wants.

Reply
4 replies
\"user-pic\"
bwcbwc
July 31, 2009 7:53 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@gaywolverine: Isn't it only primary residence that's deductible? Spending all his time in Washington, that probably isn't the case any more. Although there is a loophole for elected officials, I don't know if that applies to appointees.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Rachacha
July 31, 2009 2:05 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@gaywolverine: There comes a point however when it becomes foolish to not budge on the price. Every year you will have a tax bill to pay on the home (and on a 1.6mil home will be a fair sum of money), hoy also need to maintain insurance on the house. If the house stays on the market for a year or more, he will have \"invested\" additional money into keeping that home.


The question becomes, is he simply asking the $1.635Mil as the starting price and willing to negotiate down from there, or is he drawing a line in the sand saying he will not seel the house for anything less than $1.635mil?

Reply
\"user-pic\"
ExtraCelestial
July 31, 2009 1:41 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@gaywolverine: The emotion part is paying more than a house is worth because you want it. Even if you're a billionaire, a bad investment is a bad investment. Buying a house during a peak market and then having to sell it for a loss makes the house a bad investment. Even if there wasn't a recession, property value doesn't always increase, so there is no guarantee he would ever get that money back. No, it's not like he's going to go into foreclosure, but it's troubling to see someone that's handling our finances make such poor decisions with his own.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
burnedout
July 31, 2009 1:23 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@gaywolverine: I don't think it's Geithner who is griping. This story has been running for a while, and I think you're right - he's willing and able to wait out the market.

No, I think it's actually the real estate agents who are making the stink out of this. One has gone through the hassle of listing and showing the place without a commission (and if the guy's unwilling to lower the price the commission's not coming any time soon). And then there are all the other agents with clients who MIGHT buy the house if it were priced better. The real estate agents in the area see that place as a wasted opportunity, and there the ones keeping this story alive...

Reply
","","","","
\"user-pic\"
johnfrombrooklyn
July 31, 2009 1:34 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

True story. I was looking at apartments in NYC a few years ago. I walked through one and the realtor said, \"The seller has to move. He's willing to work something out. He's willing to take $25,000 over the selling price and won't ask for any more.\" This was at a time when an apt. would go on the market for $800,000 and 20 families would bid it up to $1 million. So this seller thought he was doing me a favor by \"only\" taking $25,000 over the asking price. I stayed a renter.

Reply
1 replies
\"user-pic\"
microcars
July 31, 2009 2:24 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@johnfrombrooklyn: and there are still people that think this way!
My wife is a Real Estate Agent and every day I get to hear about this crap.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
Mr-Mr
July 31, 2009 1:34 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

As the housing market was falling apart, he decides to put his house for sale at a higher price than he paid for? Bright move. And he's the genius that's supposed to get us out of this mess. We're going to need some reinforcements.

He needs to fix that bathroom too. Plenty of samples on HGTV.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
Jeff_McAwes0me
July 31, 2009 1:36 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Tim Geithner doesn't know anything about economics? The Tim Geithner? Color me shocked.

Reply
1 replies
","","
\"user-pic\"
bmorg003
July 31, 2009 1:40 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Based on his performance so far with the TARP program that he helped craft with Paulson and the PPIP program and other Wall Street give-away schemes, he may not want the place to sell. He may need a place to crash once the people with pitchforks show up in Washington D.C.

Reply
","","","","","","","","
\"user-pic\"
Rachacha
July 31, 2009 2:13 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

My favorite line in the article is \"Of course, no one should feel too badly about watching Geithner take a loss. As Treasury Secretary he's earning $191,300.\"


Actually, I do kind of feel sorry for him. When you look at bank executives and financial executives who also helped to get us into this mess who are earning several million/year, $190K/year is nothing. Granted, to someone making $27,000 a year, it may seem excessive, but it is certainly not out of line for someone who is supposed to be handling all of the nation's money problems.

Reply
5 replies
\"user-pic\"
sir_eccles
July 31, 2009 3:47 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Rachacha: Lets do some math. Assume when he bought it he had a 10% deposit. That leaves about $1.4m in mortgage which is about 7.5 times his current salary. Even in the best of times you shouldn't be borrowing more than 5 times your salary tops. Even with a 25% deposit he is borrowing about 6.3 times his salary

Reply
\"user-pic\"
littlemisslondon
July 31, 2009 2:59 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Rachacha: Wow. He's earning less than $200k? That's not much at ALL, for his position.

I wonder if he's eligible to do some consulting on the side?

Reply
\"user-pic\"
oneandone
July 31, 2009 3:13 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@littlemisslondon: That's pretty standard for even high-level government civil servants.


This is the DC area pay scale:
[www.opm.gov]


And these are the salaries for senior executive jobs - admin judges, senior scientists, etc:


[www.opm.gov]


I don't see anyone making over $200k a year.


I would think that consulting for anyone would require Tim Geithner to fill out a LOT of paperwork requesting conflict-of-interest waivers. Which I assume would be denied. Guess he'll just have to watch his checkbook carefully!

Reply
\"user-pic\"
pecan 3.14159265
July 31, 2009 2:45 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Rachacha: He might make a lot of money, but can you imagine the stress he's under every day? So yeah, I can kind of feel sorry for him too. I wouldn't wish that amount of pressure on anyone. It's the same reason why presidents age so much while in office. The stress and the pressure finally gets to you, and no amount of money you make (presidents actually don't make a ton of money, at least not in relation to the job they do) can alleviate that kind of pressure.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
solidbrassfasteners
July 31, 2009 5:59 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@pecan 3.14159265: I don't feel sorry for him - he stepped into the role knowing full well the stress he'd be under. It's not like the economy wasn't already a mess by the time he stepped up to the plate. He willingly took the salary, he willingly took the job. All his choice.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
u1itn0w2day
July 31, 2009 8:58 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@solidbrassfasteners: Exactly , it comes down to do you want a career or profit on your real estate . He should be so lucky as he has choice .


@LastError: Oh yeah!

Reply
","","","","","
\"user-pic\"
cmdrsass
July 31, 2009 2:55 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

I wonder which well-connected insider will bail Geithner out of this one.

Reply
","","
\"user-pic\"
cete-of-badgers
July 31, 2009 3:11 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

My friend's parents just sold a similar house. They lived on a cul-de-sac of a private neighborhood, it was 5 bedrooms, 4.5 bathrooms, marble in the entryway, library, 1.5 acres, awesome back porch and back yard, and a woodsy area off the yard with a little pond. It is in Harrison, which is about 8 miles from this place, and it sold for 1.2 million. WTF, we're in a recession/depression, and this guy is trying to flip a house for more than he paid for it? Kind of a dick move.

Reply
","","","
\"user-pic\"
Raekwon
July 31, 2009 3:41 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Wow I noticed the same thing they pointed out at the end. That bathroom is ghastly! At 1.6mln you would think they would have a much nicer bathroom.

Reply
","","","
\"user-pic\"
dwu
July 31, 2009 4:47 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

I know this is an amusing story, but I actually think Geithner is consciously trying to signal confidence in the economy and in his own ability to manage it by holding out on the asking price. After all, one could imagine the stories if Geithner's personal real estate position was \"OMG sell now, prices wont recover anytime soon!\" By holding out for his asking price and renting until he can get it Geithner is demonstrating that he believes the market will recover in the near future, soon enough that it's worth paying the mortgage and taxes in the meantime.

Now I happen to think that the housing market isn't going to recover anytime soon. Even so, I'd rather have a Treasury Secretary that's long the American economy than one that's cashing in all his assets.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
3skr1mad0r
July 31, 2009 4:55 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Isn't this the same guy who diddn't pay his taxes? I guess we know where that money went. Take the loss on the house but call it even by adding the money you should have been paying to Uncle Sam but haven't (aside from what you actually got caught for).

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
cete-of-badgers
July 31, 2009 4:58 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Ugh. That bathroom looks like a public restroom in one of those tequila restaurants in Cancun.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
halcyondays
July 31, 2009 5:02 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

It would serve the tax-cheat right if it goes into foreclosure.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
LastError
July 31, 2009 5:14 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Something is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it. No more, no less.

If nobody will pay his asking price, they the worth is less and the price needs to come down. This is economics 101.

Can I get a government job now?

Reply
","","
\"user-pic\"
Quake 'n' Shake
July 31, 2009 5:55 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

But he can't sell it for less than he paid. He has some tax bills that need to be taken care of.

Reply
","","
\"user-pic\"
squikysquiken
July 31, 2009 7:27 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Uh, and what's the issue here? I wouldn't sell my place for less either if I can carry the mortgage and bills anyway. Way to jump to conclusions.

I bet if he sold it at a huge discount, people would be complaining that he participates in the race to the bottom on house prices and that he was a bad man for messing with his neighbors' home value by doing a fire sale.

In keeping his asking price up, he is helping keeping the local market up a bit. But then, at 1.645M, people are just irrationally pissed off no matter what.

Reply
","","","","","","","","","
\"user-pic\"
strathmeyer
August 1, 2009 11:23 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Crazy, it's almost as if he has some personality disorder that prevents him from selling it for less than he paid for it because he is low on funds.

Reply
");