var json_comments = new Array("
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winstonthorne
July 29, 2009 1:11 PM
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This is an inexpensive way to build rapport with people in the office...I'd participate simply in the interest of being a team player.

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Laura Northrup
July 29, 2009 4:11 PM
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@winstonthorne: My former office had a lottery pool *and* an underground dead pool. Being me, I only participated in the latter.

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Stephmo
July 29, 2009 1:33 PM
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@winstonthorne: 2 bucks to build rapport - or, for FREE you can be the office douche that goes on and on about how the odds of winning are firmly stacked against you.

It's the easiest money you'll ever spend on office politics in your life.

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ngoandy
July 29, 2009 2:40 PM
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@Stephmo: Exactly.

The people who don't participate are always called cheap bastards.

I don't wear jeans on friday, but still contribute. People accused me of not wanting to fork over the money.

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MauriceCallidice
July 29, 2009 3:15 PM
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@Stephmo: & @ngoandy:

So, I'm a douche or a cheap bastard for not participating? The people who think or say that need to get over their groupthink mentality. There's no need to be rude in declining to participate, but not participating in a voluntary lottery pool is hardly anti-social.

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Stephmo
July 29, 2009 4:05 PM
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@MauriceCallidice: Hey, you tell yourself that every time you don't participate in something at the office. Politics is for chumps!

And then when you're get a reputation as not being a team player, you can take comfort in not being a groupthink kind of employee.

It's one thing when it's 4 random employees - when you see an entire section, including management participating, your two bucks is worth the investment.

On the other hand, if you're still considering any type of \"conformity\" at an office a negative thing, you're probably not terribly happy where you work anyway. So it's probably worth NOT participating to send a subtle message that you'll never be a part of the crowd.

Honestly, you spend 1/2 your waking life at your job. That you'd want to go in every single day approaching it as a combative thing is beyond me.

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shinseiromeo
July 29, 2009 8:04 PM
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@Stephmo:


So am I not a team player because I don't smoke? At my office, my supervisors, trainers, and direct boss smoke. The \"regular employees\" who smoke have great rapport with the higher ups because they smoke and socialize \"outside of the office\" daily. I'm considered an outcast by your logic by not following the herd.

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jadbalja
July 29, 2009 10:04 PM
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@shinseiromeo:

You just said that the ones who do smoke have a greater rapport with the higher ups because they go on smoke breaks together, so yes, you are at least somewhat of an outcast.

You can easily do what I used to do in a similar situation, go out with them and just hang out while they smoke. Worked great for me.

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MauriceCallidice
July 30, 2009 5:54 PM
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@jadbalja: There was a Friends episode that covered this situation (I'm sorry to admit that I know).

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DaveDidNotPay
July 29, 2009 11:07 PM
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@jadbalja:

The smokers may all realize they have a bad habit but at least they have it together. The lone non-smoker risks being looked at as the one who thinks they are better than the rest. On the other hand, the lone smoker must feel pretty lousy.

I've done the \"join them for the smoke\" thing in the past but even second-hand smoke bothers me so I'm glad I do not need to do it now.

Smokers, sports fanatics, and ex-military often get along quite well. It's a heck of a bond. Religion and kids seem to do the trick too to some degree.

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Raekwon
July 29, 2009 3:24 PM
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@MauriceCallidice: Good point. There are other ways to build rapport. We have weekly activities/parties where I work as well has huge full blown company retreats 2-3 times a year. Not to mention my religious beliefs prevent me from participating in any form of gambling.

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Brontide
July 29, 2009 1:14 PM
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Lotteries are a fools game. Once every few years the odds get close to even on some of the big multi-state drawings after a bunch of misses, but 99% of the time it's not even close.

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GearheadGeek
July 29, 2009 1:33 PM
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@snowmoon: No, they don't. The odds of winning any individual drawing with X number of tickets is always the same. When the prize becomes very large, the (potential winnings)*(chance of winning)-(cost of ticket) may indicate that buying a ticket is a positive net present value investment, but that doesn't affect the odds of winning.

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kaceetheconsumer
July 29, 2009 4:14 PM
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@GearheadGeek: You've pretty much hit the nail on the head in terms of why Las Vegas works. Most humans have a general perception that things are linked and that randomness works in a linked fashion. You don't have to be religious, spiritual, or even crazy to think that the dice do eventually have to come up a certain way - it's endemic to the species. People think that if you roll a die 100 times, it's going to average out so that each number comes up about roughly the same number of times as each other number, because they intuit that the dice has a memory of having been rolled before.

Mathematically and logically, of course, this isn't the case, and 100 rolls of 1 are just as statistically likely as 16-17 rolls each of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. It's just that 100 rolls of 1 is a noticeable pattern and seems unlikely, and it IS unlikely, but it's just as unlikely as a perfect average for each number.

I'm married to a mathematician, we have had hardcore mathy-science professional friends, and when we RPG we all still feel like that damned d20 is \"due\" for a crit roll any time now, even though we intellectually know it isn't.

Having lived in Vegas, I promise you, the entire gambling industry relies on this perception. Which is why my husband and I simply never gamble.

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psm321
July 29, 2009 5:33 PM
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@kaceetheconsumer: Actually, 100 rolls of 1 _is_ less likely than 16 each, because there is only 1 way to get 100 1's whereas there are many ways to get 16 each (16 1's followed by 16 2's, or the other way around, etc.) Your general point is valid though, in that after 99 rolls, the 100th roll is just as likely to be any of 1-6 regardless of the previous 99 rolls.

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kaceetheconsumer
July 29, 2009 10:08 PM
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@psm321: Yes, you're right, I meant the overall total number of each rolled but that's pretty much falling into the same mental trap, isn't it?

This is why the hubby is the mathematician and I'm just the arts major. :D

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redskull
July 29, 2009 1:18 PM
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@snowmoon: I've said it before... I believe my odds of winning the lottery are the same whether I play it or not.

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formatc
July 29, 2009 1:27 PM
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@redskull: No, but you can beat the odds to break even. There's 140 million combinations on PowerBall, so the odds of hitting the big jackpot are 1 in 140 million. That means if you buy 140 million tickets, it costs you $140 million, and in there you're guaranteed a winning combination. If the jackpot is over $140 million, you will make money. You just beat the odds.

I acknowledge this does not account for taxes or other rules of the game. I'm only simplifying to illustrate the point.

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DreamTheEndless: Death's little brother
July 29, 2009 5:31 PM
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@formatc: Many people have pointed out one of the flaws in your logic, (split pots,) but there are a couple of other problems with it:
That 140 million is an annuity that pays out over 20 or 30 years or so. If you take the cash option instead of the annuity, the payout is about half. With that and the taxes issue that you brushed aside, (we'll go with about 50% tax rate for the sake of easy math,) you would need to win 140m * 2 * 2 or around 560 million. And again, that's without the possibility of a split pot. I have never seen powerball or any of the other multi-state lotteries ever get up to 560 million.

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alexcassidy
July 29, 2009 5:16 PM
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@formatc: Not quite. When the prize gets that large, there is an increased chance that someone (or multiple someones) else will draw the same numbers as you, splitting the prize in half (or thirds, or fourths).

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BWoodle
July 29, 2009 1:55 PM
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@formatc: You fail to account for the possibility of someone else hitting the jackpot with you. Even with a jackpot of 200 million your expected gain is negative unless you can somehow keep other people from purchasing tickets.

Yes, even without taxes.

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secret_curse
July 29, 2009 1:51 PM
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@formatc: But you fail miserably at illustrating your point. Yes, with 140 million tickets you're guaranteed a winning combination, not the winning combination. If one or more gamblers also have that winning combination, the pot is split and you lose tens of millions of dollars. If it were a sure bet anytime the pot was greater than $140MM, don't you think hedge funds or venture capitol firms would be chomping at the bit to guarantee a multi-million dollar windfall in a single day?


I agree if you buy 140 million tickets you've beaten the odds to \"win\" the lottery because you will have a single winning ticket. However, you haven't necessariliy beaten the odds to turn a profit using the lottery.

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formatc
July 29, 2009 5:25 PM
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@secret_curse: @BWoodle: Right. Splitting the jackpot is another part of the rules I ignored. I was just simplifying.

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Amish Undercover
July 29, 2009 1:42 PM
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@formatc: A couple additional thoughts:

* jackpots can be split.

* there are lower prizes that you also can win -- it isn't just about the jackpot if you want to look at the point you break even.

I've always wondered why people can be taxed on winnings but cannot write off losses. Or can they?

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BWoodle
July 29, 2009 1:56 PM
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@statgrad: You can deduct up to $400 in gambling losses if you itemize, IIRC.

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wrjohnston19283
July 29, 2009 3:21 PM
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@BWoodle:


Nope - you can only deduct gambling losses against winnings - if you win $400 you claim that as income, and then can deduct $400 in losses, even if you had $10,000 in loses.

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craptastico
July 29, 2009 1:47 PM
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@statgrad: i think you can write them off only against any gambling winnings you declare. so if you hit it big at the track or casino (I think it has to be over $10k) and they make you fill out a w-9 and declare it, then i think you can write off your lottery tickets and other gambling losses.

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katstermonster
July 29, 2009 1:34 PM
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@formatc: Oooooh so THAT's what I need to be doing with my 140 million! Ahaha. Good point, though.

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zegolf
July 29, 2009 1:21 PM
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@redskull: at least if you DON'T play, you're saving the dollar or two you'd pay to buy the tickets!

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squinko
July 29, 2009 1:14 PM
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Some of my co-workers and I have a lottery pool that we do only when the jackpot goes over $100 million. It really is harmless fun. If I lose, I'm out $5 and it goes to the schools anyway (I'm probably opening up a can of worms with that one...)

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FoxCMK
July 29, 2009 2:39 PM
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@squinko - applauds the death of FBC: Eh. Your state taxes go towards the schools anyway, and money spent != better education, but it's better than nothing. *shrug*


I watched the episode of Friends last night where they all pool for the lottery. Typical hijinks, but they make a good point, echoing this article: Winning may be the (nearly impossible) goal, but it's still fun.

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wagenejm
July 29, 2009 5:46 PM
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@FoxCMK: Our state taxes quit going toward the schools, because the \"lottery\" was supposed to pay for it all, but then the schools are broke because the lottery money is somehow going elsewhere. We've all been taken for fools, twice. Once for believing we can win, and once for believing this pile of crap would actually benefit the schools.

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anonymousryan
July 29, 2009 7:42 PM
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@wagenejm: In Florida the lottery money does go to schools. The problem is, instead of supplementing the schools' budgets they just cut the funding from tax dollars and diverted the revenue elsewhere. The schools didn't get anymore funding than before the lottery, they just got it from a different source (the lottery as opposed to tax dollars).

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Kogenta
July 29, 2009 2:03 PM
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@squinko - applauds the death of FBC: Place I used to work did that except it was 50 million and the cost of entry was only $1. With 40-80 people in the pool, it's simply not justifiable to enter the lotto at any value lower.

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Hatin'SharkWeek_GitEmSteveDave
July 29, 2009 1:15 PM
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Any recommendations as to whether the pool chooses Cash or Annuity? If you're young and fairly healthy, should you make the pool enter into a \"tontine\" like agreement?

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AdamBC
July 29, 2009 1:51 PM
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@Hatin'SharkWeek_GitEmSteveDave: If you are in a pool, take the cash - while there's the huge hit up front for the cash option and the taxes, it's better than ensuring the annuity is evenly split among the 10 people in your group. Cash is king in a situation like this.

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Julia789
July 29, 2009 1:36 PM
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@Hatin'SharkWeek_GitEmSteveDave: If entering a pool, I'd only do so if everyone agreed to one method in writing and everyone signed the agreement together, all as witnesses. It would state equal splits, method of payment, etc. All the details would be covered. Shame people have to do so, but to avoid infighting later on if they did win. One jerk could run off with the ticket and claim \"I never agreed to split it.\" Seen it on the news several times over the years.

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GearheadGeek
July 29, 2009 1:35 PM
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@Hatin'SharkWeek_GitEmSteveDave: Unless interest rates are at historical highs, you should always take the cash payout. Even then there is an argument for the cash payout since you could theoretically do about as well investing as the lottery commission can, and could pay yourself a significant annual sum while still retaining the principle amount in your investment(s).

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humphrmi
July 29, 2009 1:52 PM
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@GearheadGeek: First let me say that I don't disagree with your conclusion - cash payout.

But as to why - lottery commissions don't invest anything. They simply buy annuities with the intake from companies that offer them.

Which makes the debate of how well you'll do lump sum vs. yearly payout a matter of opinion about annuities. Annuities generally guarantee a certain level of income for the rest of your life, in return for a lump sum payment up front (that lump sum payment is made by the lottery commission, if you win and choose the yearly payments.) It's like an insurance policy, but instead of insuring you against death, the policy is betting that you will die, hopefully soon.

And in fact, out of the pool of all the people who buy annuities, many will die - perfectly healthy people who get run over by a bus or otherwise expire unexpectedly.

The annuity figures in for this effect with some level of accuracy, and in fact your returns from an annuity are generally better than the underlying investments because of the \"early death factor\" (or whatever you want to call it.)

That said, if you're married the yearly payouts are generally not as good because they usually die with you, leaving your spouse with nothing... whereas you can take the lump sum, buy your own annuity that includes a survivor clause for your spouse, and both of you will be set for life.

Of course if you're unhealthy and don't expect to change, take the lump sum and invest it yourself. An annuity is a bet against your life expectancy, and you already know what the odds are.

So basically it all boils down to \"It Depends\"

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GearheadGeek
July 29, 2009 3:07 PM
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@humphrmi: I don't know the conditions of general annuities or the details of lotteries other than Texas' Lotto, but I do know that the Texas \"annual payment\" plan is an asset that is part of your estate and you can leave it to someone in your will. A lotto payout, after all, is not a perpetual annuity since it has a fixed term. They only have to pay the 20 or 25 years and then it's done, so they aren't on the hook for eternal payments if you leave it to your children's children.

Not to split hairs, but buying an annuity is a form of investment. You're right that the lotto commission doesn't directly manage investments, they just buy an annuity if you choose the annual payment plan. The cost of that annuity (essentially the same amount as the lump-sum payment) will vary significantly based on interest rates in the market.

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humphrmi
July 29, 2009 6:57 PM
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@GearheadGeek: You make a good point about fixed term annuities. Those usually pay a lower per-year payout than lifetime annuities, because there is no ambiguity about how long they have to pay so you don't benefit from others in the same investment pool dying early. So in that case you would likely do better investing on your own.

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pb5000
July 29, 2009 1:20 PM
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I opted not to participate in my last office pool and my boss joked around with me crunching the numbers. We were a number crunching group, so figuring out the annual investment seemed logical to me. It would have cost $104 per year to chip in, I worked there for two years so I would have paid $208. They won once where it worked out to $175 per person, I would have lost.

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Hatin'SharkWeek_GitEmSteveDave
July 29, 2009 1:25 PM
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@pb5000: But how much more likely were they to win had they had 5 more draws in each weeks pool? That would have probably made it break even.

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GearheadGeek
July 29, 2009 1:36 PM
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@Hatin'SharkWeek_GitEmSteveDave: At lotto-level odds, another 5 tickets wouldn't likely have made a statistically significant difference.

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Hatin'SharkWeek_GitEmSteveDave
July 29, 2009 1:40 PM
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@katstermonster: Because I live on the Jersey Shore, where the events that the movie Jaws were based on, happened. That, and I am learning to Kite Surf this weekend, and Discovery, a channel I watch a lot of, keeps playing commercials for shark week, like this:

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nybiker
July 29, 2009 5:37 PM
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@Hatin'SharkWeek_GitEmSteveDave: I used to watch the show myself (and hell, I can't even tread water), but there are so many commercial breaks in their shows these days, that even with the vcr, it's a real PITA to watch the stuff. And I agree with chiieddy's comment below about their sensationalization tendency. Maybe if they would put more 'show' into the hour, they could present more real information about sharks and what to do to ensure their survival instead of shilling for their other shows.

/end of rant.

Oh, WRT your learning how to kite-surf, have your friends record some video of your training so we can see how you do (and maybe decide if we want to learn it too). thx.

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Hatin'SharkWeek_GitEmSteveDave
July 29, 2009 11:11 PM
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@nybiker: Well, there will be many gadget prone people there, so it just might happen, but I can't promise.

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temporaryerror
July 29, 2009 1:50 PM
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@Hatin'SharkWeek_GitEmSteveDave:
I thought that it happened on the Vineyard. Or mebbe that's just where it was filmed. (partially filmed?)

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chiieddy
July 29, 2009 3:15 PM
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@temporaryerror: It's where the film took place, but the real life instance? Matawan Creen and Point Pleasant, NJ.

[en.wikipedia.org]

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chiieddy
July 29, 2009 1:46 PM
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@Hatin'SharkWeek_GitEmSteveDave: Well, they sort of happened. It's still kind of humorous, having grown up in Matawan, knowing a great white went up that trickle of a creek.

Not a fan of shark week because they sensationalize shark attacks, which are fairly rare compared to the number of people hanging out at various beaches.

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Hatin'SharkWeek_GitEmSteveDave
July 29, 2009 1:50 PM
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@chiieddy: Yeah, all I see is two guys on a dock, saying \"I don't want you to cut that shark open, and see that GitEmSteveDave guy spill all over the dock\".

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chiieddy
July 29, 2009 3:17 PM
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@Hatin'SharkWeek_GitEmSteveDave: Oh please, all they'd be able to identify would be \"suspicious fleshy material and bones\" that took up \"about two-thirds of a milk crate\" and \"together weighed fifteen pounds.\" :-)

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balthisar
July 29, 2009 1:21 PM
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We don't have an office pool. Either that, or we do, but everyone hates me and keeps it as a very well guarded secret. I guess I could show them! and purchase my own lotto tickets, but then that would be like cutting off my nose to spite my face.

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White Speed Receiver
July 29, 2009 1:21 PM
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I've always joined office lottery pools. The again, I've also been struck by lightning and \"died\" once, too, so I don't think the odds are that terrible for me.

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Hatin'SharkWeek_GitEmSteveDave
July 29, 2009 1:27 PM
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@White Speed Receiver: I once wanted to hike the AT. My Mother said \"What if you run across a ax wielding crazy person?\" I said \"Mom, what are the chances two axe wielding crazy people will cross paths on the AT?\"

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crackblind
July 29, 2009 1:45 PM
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@Hatin'SharkWeek_GitEmSteveDave: ANd that's why I always bring a bomb to the airport!

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Hatin'SharkWeek_GitEmSteveDave
July 29, 2009 1:54 PM
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@crackblind: I always book flights with nuns and orphans on board. And possibly a girl on her way to the Mayo clinic for a new heart. And of course, someone who speaks jive.

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imsupermattt
July 29, 2009 1:24 PM
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Everyone always rags on the lotto, but for a dollar, you get something to talk about and something to hope for. And if you wanted to apply economic theory to it, isn't the utility from a $1 lotto (slight thrill and a chance at millions) greater than $15 for a movie? Depends on the person, and for me its worth it. Like any vice / entertainment / distraction you just have to keep it moderate and in check with your greater goals.

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Daveinva
July 29, 2009 6:29 PM
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@imsupermattt: Thank you for capturing my sentiments exactly.

I have my 401K, my mutual funds, my eight months of salary in the bank, a paid-off car, a house with a sensible mortgage payment, and no standing consumer debt.

Don't tell me I'm bad at math-- I'm good at *daydreaming*. Let me play the flippin' lottery in peace every once in a while.

Oh, and as for the OP-- you're dang right you join the office pool. I sleep fine at night knowing that some stranger won the lottery that I didn't play. You think *anybody* sleeps fine knowing that the ten closest people in their lives outside of their family just won enough money to leave their crappy job but you have to stay behind to switch off the coffee pot?

THAT karmic pain stays with you, man.

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FoxCMK
July 29, 2009 2:43 PM
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@imsupermattt: As my grandmother always says - everyone needs something to look forward to.


Even if it's irrational hope.

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halothane
July 29, 2009 1:59 PM
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@imsupermattt: This is my attitude towards it, too. People seem to assume everyone who dares buy a lottery ticket is math-illiterate. Most don't factor in entertainment value. Considering I know people who won't bat an eye at plunking down several hundred dollars to spend a night in AC sitting in front of a slot machine, $52/yr for a weekly lotto ticket doesn't strike me as a terrible price for some amusement.

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joshua70448
July 29, 2009 2:51 PM
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@aloria: That's why I like buying scratch-off tickets every now and then. Sure, they usually don't win, but if you get the right kind, it can take you a good 10 minutes to play the ticket (I personally like the $2 bingo tickets). Sometimes, I even manage to win my $2 back, and I end up even for 10 minutes of entertainment. Not a bad deal.

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coolteamblt
July 29, 2009 5:18 PM
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@joshua70448: Me too! My husband and I occasionally buy the bingo or crossword tickets. We take turns scratching off letters, and chat about what we would do with the money. Just a fun bit of entertainment, not a money-making plan.

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trekwars2000
July 29, 2009 1:27 PM
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Everytime my coworker says he is going down to Primm (CA/NV border) or AZ for Lotto tickets I try to remind him (all in good fun) that it is a tax on the poor or stupid.


I know he isn't poor, so where does that leave him...

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GearheadGeek
July 29, 2009 1:38 PM
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@trekwars2000: For people who can afford the $1, buying a lotto ticket is no more stupid than buying a $1 bottle of water when there is a water fountain or water tap handy.

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FoxCMK
July 29, 2009 2:44 PM
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@GearheadGeek: Or buying the Dove brand hand soap instead of the generic.


Though I guess hand soap lasts a lot longer than a lotto ticket.

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TGT
July 29, 2009 1:32 PM
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So I see Pascal's Wager for poor people, except without the infinite payoff and infinite sorrow. It becomes even worse.

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Julia789
July 29, 2009 1:33 PM
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What about those stories always on the news, about office lotto pools? They guy who buys the tickets wins, doesn't tell anyone, runs off to cash it, and then refuses to share the loot with the rest of the pool? Former long time friends fight bitterly, and there are years of lawsuits.


The guy with the winning ticket will claim he should get it all because he bought an \"extra\" ticket for himself and that was the winner, or that he deserves 75% because he drove to the store, or he gets it all because they gipped him the week before. There are hundreds of reasons it could go wrong.


I'd rather buy a lotto ticket by myself, if I was going to buy one, rather than risk a years long bitter public battle. I realize there are cases where everyone shares nicely and fair, but I worry those are not the norm.


If I ever won myself, I'd hope to claim it anonymously, to prevent the torment some people have gone through when relatives and old friends come out of the woodwork and suddenly claim you owe them money.


I knew a woman who won $50K in a scratch off. Word got around and relatives and friends came DEMANDING a portion of her winnings. \"Let's go on vacation together, you can afford a trip to Bermuda!\" \"I need new tires on my car, you can afford it!\" \"I have a business venture and just need $20K\" \"Pay for my boob job! I need some self-esteem after my divorce.\"


She locked herself away for a few days, and finally took the money and bought her parents a really nice car and prepaid the insurance on it. Their old car was breaking down and she knew the new one would last for years. But most of all, they never asked her for a dime. They just said \"We're so happy for you honey\" when she won the money.


She told me they were always so wonderful to her, even when they didn't have much to give financially. She wanted to do something in return, as well as get all these other people off her back. Funny, the other \"friends\" and relatives stopped calling once they heard the money was spent. Figures. But I think it is sweet what she did for her parents.

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doctor_cos wants you to remain calm
July 29, 2009 2:31 PM
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@Julia789: Never a problem for me. The guy who bought the lottery tickets for the group made photocopies of the tickets for everyone BEFORE the drawing.

That's the only way to go.

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magstheaxe
July 29, 2009 2:47 PM
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@doctor_cos: Exactly. That's how we do it at our office.

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bombhand
July 29, 2009 1:50 PM
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@Julia789: The problem with lots of winning lottos is how sloppily they're run. They don't consider the ramifications of lazy \"administration\" until it shoots them all in the foot. For a proper office pool, there should be some sort of contract, and everyone should give their money to one trusted participant who purchases all of the tickets, then makes a photocopy of them for all members. It's not a great deal more trouble, but it's good insurance against the disaster that would happen in the event of a win.

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billsquared
July 29, 2009 1:33 PM
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I play Mega Millions every week, only $1... \"our\" numbers, if you will.

My wife asked me to justify it one time, and I eventually explained it that it's an insurance policy. We pay a couple thousand dollars a year to Auto-Owner's Insurance for our house and car insurance against the small possibility of something BAD happening. Having our lottery tickets is $104/year \"insurance\" against the small possibility of something GOOD happening.

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coolteamblt
July 29, 2009 4:30 PM
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@billsquared: That's us. My husband buys his one ticket each week, I smoke. They're our little money wasters that make us happy.

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AdamBC
July 29, 2009 2:02 PM
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@billsquared: I like that idea... especially considering what it costs for all the other insurances, ~$100 year isn't bad at all.

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temporaryerror
July 29, 2009 1:53 PM
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I've read that with the odds of winning what they are, buying extra tickets doesn't really improve your chances of winning. So 1 ticket is just as good as 5-10 tickets as far as your odds go.

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RogueSophist
July 29, 2009 3:05 PM
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@temporaryerror: Don't believe everything you read. Unless you're buying 5-10 identical tickets.

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backbroken
July 29, 2009 2:00 PM
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@temporaryerror: Well....I guess .0001% chance of winning is approximately equal to .0003% chance of winning. That IS one way to look at it.

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FoxCMK
July 29, 2009 2:45 PM
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@backbroken: Yeah, but that's triple the chances, quite literally. Even if the difference is insignificant, you can't argue that.

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Cybrczch
July 29, 2009 2:21 PM
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Any spending I do on lottery tickets, scratch cards, keno, etc. comes out of my budget under 'Entertainment' - not coincidently the same place my bar tab falls.

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shepd
July 29, 2009 2:24 PM
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If you don't care about the lotto, but scenario 4 worries you, you can at least participate with the lowest buy in possible.

Round up the rest of the people in the office that don't play and split a single entry. Sure, rather than winning 1 million you'll only win $50,000, but your ticket only cost $0.05. And that $50,000 is still enough to make you happy, IMHO.

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ariven
July 29, 2009 2:28 PM
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I don't participate in the office pools, I am too greedy. If they win I will be happy for them and not feel put out because I choose not to participate.

But the, because I -am- greedy, when the payout gets really big I sometimes buy two tickets with the same numbers so I can have two shares of a big payout if by some miracle I win and the nightmare of someone else getting numbers too.

I am not worried about the $1-10 a month I put into tickets, I have budgeted recreational cash for myself, and if I choose to spend it on lotto tickets instead of an extra book or something, it still comes out about the same for me.

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trolley
July 29, 2009 2:31 PM
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My father was fortunate enough to fall into category number 2. Some people that fell into category number 4 were pretty bitter, and some even ended up quitting their job over it.

It's a game of chance. I say play if you want, who knows what will happen. If you can't afford $2 a week you're in some pretty big trouble.

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doctor_cos wants you to remain calm
July 29, 2009 2:34 PM
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Trust Walter Cronkite, who said you have a better chance of getting struck by lightning twice than of winning the lottery.

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FoxCMK
July 29, 2009 2:47 PM
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@doctor_cos: Or as Ross said, forty-two times.

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JollyJumjuck
July 29, 2009 2:47 PM
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I used to play in different office pools, and took home a total of less than $20 for my years of contributions. We would play the same numbers week after week (each person contributed a set of numbers), so it would be easy to tell whether or not our group won, or someone else's individual ticket won.
In one office pool of about two years, one person dropped out due to lack of funds. Since we could not remember after two years which line belonged to which participant, we dropped a random line. The VERY NEXT draw, five of those numbers came up and we could have each won several hundred dollars, except that we just happened to pick the wrong set of numbers to drop.

One guy I worked with never played a lottery or bought a ticket for a draw in his life (he didn't believe in it). After some urging from his wife, he bought a $50 ticket, which won him a $35,000 car.

Another guy I worked with occasionally did some business in Michigan, where there were several people in an office pool there (he wasn't invited to play, since he did not work there full time). He told me there was one person dropped out of their pool, and a few weeks later they each won several hundred thousand dollars.

A group of people who won the jackpot worked at a local tavern. They had only been playing for a few weeks.

Anecdotes abound of people who win more than once, or people who win on their first time playing a lottery.

On the other hand, I have tried for decades without winning anything, and I have come to the conclusion, foolish as it may sound, that I am just not lucky when it comes to lotteries. You can spout off all the odds you want, and claim that, \"anyone can win,\" but the truth that I have found is that luck is uncontrollable, and either you have it or you don't. I now refuse to play any kind of lottery, knowing that my money will be wasted and will likely fund someone else with far more luck than I will ever have.

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Applyin'Sunscreen_GitEmSteveDave
July 30, 2009 4:28 PM
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@JollyJumjuck: If you forward this comment to five friends, good fortune will come to you!

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selianth
July 29, 2009 5:51 PM
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@JollyJumjuck: I heard a story of a woman who bought a ticket for a specific set of numbers, and then later that day bought another ticket in a different location for the same numbers because she had a good feeling about them. Ended up getting 2/3 of a payout instead of just half (since there was one more winning ticket.) Crazy things can happen with the lottery, that's for sure.

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maruawe42
July 29, 2009 3:24 PM
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I am against the term unwashed masses,this is an incorrect assumption of the rich. poor hygiene is more common amoung the \"higher classes\" than in the \"lower classes\" I wish to see this phrase banished from print.
If in doubt go to the legislature of the United sates
they use aftershave to mask body odor and the same in board meetings of a lot of companies. I worked as a
consultant and found this to be the case to many times.

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bbagdan
July 29, 2009 3:32 PM
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My coworker's wife works at a company whose lottery pool just won the biggest single-winner jackpot in the lottery's history ($42M). Guess who didn't participate. Guess who is the only person left working at that company. Whoops.

I also sold a Mercedes to a couple that won millions in an office pool.

I've also personally known two other people that have won millions.

Someone's gotta win, folks.

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I Love New Jersey
July 29, 2009 3:41 PM
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Just buy tickets when the jackpot is absurdly high, just buy one ticket and use the money you would spend on some other vice like a candy bar.

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SharpsKC
July 29, 2009 3:44 PM
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There needs to be a subset to Option 4. The pool wins you didn't participate, Everyone quits, leaving you to do all there work until other people are hired and probably training their replacements. If you are lucky. If you aren't lucky the company takes to opportunity to outsource the department and lays you off. So that $1-2 doesn't just buy me rights in the \"what will you do\" conversation it is insurance in case the pool wins big.


At my job the pool usually only kicks in when the distributed payout to each participant would be 4-5 million. We don't love our jobs so much we would continue doing them if we had FU money.

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HPCommando
July 29, 2009 3:57 PM
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We do shares, take the cash payout, any winnings under $1/share go back into the pool for the next draw. When we win over $1/share, it's split by the number of paid shares.


I put in $20, and the pool is $100, I get 20% of the cash payout after withholding. I put in $5 out of the $100, I get 5%.


Because we track this, we avoid the \"but I meant to play\" and \"you didn't include me\" issues.

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Trai_Dep
July 29, 2009 4:21 PM
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I participate for the large payout office pools because I always feel sorry for the suckers working next to those office-poolers that won.
The $1 is worth the peace of mind that I won't be one of those left behind if (however improbable) lightening were to strike. Considering some of the hyper-annoying people that regularly participate here, I'm certain that if their pool won and I wasn't hitched up, it'd drive me slowly, despairingly insane.

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Trai_Dep
July 29, 2009 4:24 PM
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@Trai_Dep: But I don't participate on the multi-state ones. I figure if I am going to piss my $1 away, I'll be damned if CA doesn't get to rake all of the proceeds.

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psm321
July 29, 2009 6:25 PM
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@Trai_Dep: I thought that for the multi-state ones proceeds were split among the states by number of tickets bought in that state.

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hdhrant
July 29, 2009 4:32 PM
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It is a myth that a substantial portion of lottery proceeds goes to education. Most of it just goes to pay for marketing for the lottery.

The New York Times had an excellent article about this a couple years ago: For Schools, Lottery Payoffs Fall Short of Promises.

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microe
July 29, 2009 5:02 PM
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I keep that one dollar. But so does everyone else in my place of work. Most of us have had at least two years of math in college. So we are well aware of the chance of winning. If there was a way to make a lottery work. My workplace would have done it. I'll keep my dollar for a smoothie every 3 weeks. Mmmm, Smoothie.

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RandomHookup
July 29, 2009 5:32 PM
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Think of the damange that would happen to a small employer if his four person accounting team hit the big money lottery and gave 2 weeks notice.

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XTC46
July 29, 2009 6:59 PM
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@RandomHookup: Youre assuming people would quit their jobs.


I sure as hell wouldnt, I work in a job I enjoy very much, and while I might plan a vacation after winning, I would certainly want my job when I came back.

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halo969
July 29, 2009 11:12 PM
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@xtc46 - thinksmarter on twitter: Then consider yourself already very lucky as many (if not most) people work because we have to and/or work at a job that we don't really love or enjoy. I for one would quit my job and travel. Once I got tired of that I'd get a new job, but one that I liked because it wouldn't be about earning a living anymore but more about having something to fill the days.

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RandomHookup
July 29, 2009 8:41 PM
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@xtc46 - thinksmarter on twitter: Sure, but if it's one of the biggggggg prizes (say $10 million each), you have a good chance of losing the whole team the minute they go to pick up the check. Isn't quitting your job one of the reasons people play the lottery?

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nybiker
July 29, 2009 5:40 PM
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Hey the MegaMillions Jackpot is up to 73 million clams this Friday. Now if only I had an office pool to join, I could share the winnings. Of course, first I need to have a job and then I'd have to co-workers to join up with.

Anybody in NYC looking for an additional coworker to join in their office pool?

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nybiker
July 29, 2009 5:41 PM
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@nybiker: s/b \"..have co-workers to join..\"

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kepler11
July 29, 2009 5:41 PM
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as they said on the Daily Show: \"Um, I'm not sure that's how probability works.\"
Your matrix of outcomes is not exactly probability weighted...

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kepler11
July 29, 2009 5:42 PM
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@kepler11: Take out the office pool part of it, and it's just the same argument as playing the lottery yourself. And that's not quite 50-50 is it?

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zlionsfan
July 29, 2009 8:05 PM
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@kepler11: right ... it's actually an \"argument\" to play the lottery yourself.

1. You participate in the pool: the pool wins.
2. You participate on your own: the pool wins, you lose.
3. You participate in the pool: the pool loses.
4. You participate on your own: the pool loses, you win.
5. You participate on your own: the pool loses, you lose.

Scenario 2 sucks and should be avoided at all costs. Scenarios 3 and 5 are the normal course of events. Scenario 1 is cool, but what if it's a $5M jackpot and there are 100 of you? (Oh yes, it's possible: people like to think of the big jackpots like in Powerball and large state lotteries, but the Indiana lottery starts much lower than that. For example, right now, the jackpot is $3M.)

So obviously you want scenario 4. More for you, less to share. And someone needs to go back to work to pick up where the winners left off, right?

(end of pseudo-logic)

Lotteries are terrible investments but comparatively cheap entertainment, even if terribly short-lived.

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post_break
July 29, 2009 5:56 PM
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I have a neighbor who one in a 13 person pool. Now all he does is go to the bar and drink. Well he did that before he won but he also had a job too.

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post_break
July 29, 2009 5:56 PM
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Damn it. I mean \"won\" not \"one\"...

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Cheapskate Brill
July 29, 2009 8:49 PM
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If you like playing the lottery in Florida, it's actually cheaper to play it through an office pool. Equivalent of half price lottery tickets.

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FrankReality
July 30, 2009 12:56 AM
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Somebody once said that your chances of winning with a ticket is very close to the chances of winning without one. ;-)


What we do is wait until the payout is $150 million or so, then we each throw $2 in the pool. And like the original post said, everybody play except for our two Muslims, because nobody want to be left if the pool won.

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dhochbaum
July 31, 2009 9:47 PM
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If you own a small business and your employees participate in a lottery pool, you should as well. If your employees win the jackpot, you will most likely be left with no employees.

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