A Las Vegas Sun story spotlights Vincent Daswell, who slashed his weight more than 100 pounds from his high of 380.
The story breaks down Daswell's simultaneous slimming of body and budget:
• In the first five months of 2008, taxpayers provided Daswell with 17 medications for obesity-related health problems at a cost of $8,374.19.
• In the first five months of 2009, taxpayers provided Daswell with 13 medications for obesity-related health problems, many at reduced dosages, at a cost of $5,106.54.
It's a simple measure, but shows a savings of $3,267.65 in the five months, a 39 percent reduction in expenses in drugs alone.
The surgery and first year of follow-up cost $16,000, but the story says that cost would be made up within two years by the reduced pharmaceutical bills alone. So if Obama is serious about health care reform he may as well subsidize free gastric bypass clinics at every Walgreens.
The hidden cost of obesity [Las Vegas Sun]
(Photo: Earth2Kim)
I'm so happy it's becoming more common knowledge because then maybe somebody could start to come up with SOLUTIONS rather than just say "Oh, come on, you can eat better!"
]]>@verdantpine: No arguments here, Verdantpine. Scarcity of grocery stores in urban areas is definitely an issue. (I live in Brooklyn, and see it daily.) I do worry about the "healthy food is expensive" mantra becoming accepted wisdom for non-urban areas, though.
]]>I'm quite overweight, and every part of me that should be a problem because of the deathfat(glucose, blood pressure, cholesterol, etc.) is beyond stellar. So yeah, don't blame me.
You know what IS the majority of my healthcare costs? Mental health treatment.
]]>I think the whole basis behind solving the obesity problem begins exactly at the point of the mind and the environment where the person is, which will then unlock the reason for overconsumption.
An excellent obesity program should pair portion control (NOT food control) and exercise with extensive mental health workups. Get to the root of the problem first, then modify the behavior.
]]>Yeah, the most convenient way to solve obesity is to treat certain food like a sin. Precisely the wrong way, in fact, as resentment and resistance will overwhelm the scope of the tax in the first place (and I can bet the person demanding these taxes were denied these treats when they were young..."if I can't have it, neither can you."
When you control food, you control people, and the excess poundage won't drop a single ounce if you tax foods people consider bad.
]]>Fiji and other countries in Polynesia are struggling big-time with Type II diabetes, where as many as 50% of the population has the condition.
Metabolic syndrome, type II diabetes and obesity are major, major issues in countries like Germany, Australia and the UK.
In one generation, Japan's incidence of obesity has jumped, and it seems to be tied to Western eating habits - it is, after all, a country in which people are encouraged to walk and take public transportation.
]]>However, the haters out there also need to understand that this can be, for some people, a long or even life-long process. I am fat. I also eat a almost exclusively vegetarian diet, avoid salt and saturated fat, exercise, and also don't smoke, drink in moderation, etc. I see people who are moderately overweight or not overweight at all, who think they are better than "fatties", even as they stuff their face with the unhealthy stuff at Carl's Jr.
Stop assuming that all obese people got that way because they eat only crap. Some of us struggle with endocrine disorders or gained weight after a traumatic illness or injury. Some of us got this way because of an eating disorder, and have permanently screwed up our metabolism.
Ultimately, I think the "Health at Every Size" idea is positive, because it teaches people to make changes, even little ones, in the here and now. When you're fifty, a hundred, or even a hundred and fifty pounds overweight, getting to the glorified size presented to you by the media seems unattainable. But cutting down on unhealthy food, lowering your blood pressure, getting more exercise - these are all attainable in baby steps - which can lead to bigger steps and better health in the long term.
]]>This is patently false. If you make the effort, you can find healthy food for the same price (if not cheaper) than unhealthy food. And cooking at home will absolutely give you better results than eating out/taking in/whatever. I'm smart enough to feed two people in a healthy way for $50/week. If you look for it, it's there. Stop making excuses.
]]>Why does this need to be said? If you have a problem with who and how other people are, you had better be "perfect" in every way, or you are guilty of a particularly disgusting form of hypocrisy. And if you have to say something, try to make sure it comes from some experience, specific knowledge, and understanding before you do so.
]]>Whether someone is fat doesn't make them less human. Why Consumerist thinks it's ok to mock, discriminate and humiliate fat people is beyond me. Other bigoted terms for various diverse humans would be met with scorn and disemvoweling (at the least) but hey, let's all tell fatty what a pathetic fatso slob they are - they should just put down the fork, right?
Next up: Disabled people declared "just lazy."
]]>@Featherstonehaugh: Hell no! Even if I didn't already know better it'd only take reading the comments of any article mentioning someone's weight to disabuse me of that notion.
You comment should be Quoted for Truth in every article about weight loss.
]]>@Carolyn Gabriel: Bingo.
]]>I shop smart enough to feed, house, insure, etc. 2 people on under $25K/year. I know my way around things and how to make a dollar go far. it doesn't make my healthy food any cheaper. By god, I sure wish it would though the way you and others talk like it already is.
]]>The cost of obesity to the taxpayers of obesity is constantly overblown as a way of increasing fat hate and trying to develop more punitive measures. The real cost is in quality of life for the overweight. The issue that needs to be addressed is how to help people, not how to punish them or form new excuses to form stronger prejudices against them.
Until the root of the problem is addressed (and those roots are broad and deep in the social structure and education system of the U.S.), the problem won't go away. Let's stop pretending that there's a good reason to hate fat people based on how much they cost and be honest that this is really just old-fashioned prejudice at work.
]]>@Pal: Why do we need an euphemism? How about, "...taxpayers who fund costly care for the obese via Medicare.
I know Phil was just trying to turn a phrase, but there's nothing wrong with letting him know that this particular phrase was a bit offensive.
]]>Being overweight is also highly visible - a smoker, problem drinker, or person with psychiatric disorders usually isn't evident on sight unless using.
But OMG fat people are ugly and not like people on entertainment shows on TV!
]]>Your comments betray your ignorance. You should probably think about being quiet. For one thing, plenty of "fat" people don't eat fast food at all, let alone "3 burgers for 1 meal." Actually, a lot of overweight people I know also have eating disorders, probably because they have to deal with people like you who say BS like "If I did it, why can't you, you fat lazy heifer?"
If you had even one ounce of education on the matter, you would know that what people are saying are scientific FACTS and that actual studies have been performed that support the facts as they stand, including the fact that weight is NOT a determining factor for health.
]]>The Hollywood version of CPR magically saving everybody's life is a little too ingrained in our culture.
]]>Weight loss surgery has a death rate of about 1 in 250 people. That's higher than the death rate for having heart bypass surgery.
Weight loss surgery is believed to cause a huge number of dangerous, sometimes life threatening problems, including but not limited to malnutrition (you can only eat about a half cup of food at a time, and some foods you can no longer eat at all, meaning vitamins don't get absorbed), osteoporosis (see above, calcium no longer can be absobred), gall stones or infected gall bladders (what happens when you suddenly restrict fat intake -- Jenny Craig got sued for millions about that!), adhesions that require further surgery, plus the dangers of surgery itself, including blood clots and the anaethesia.
You spend the rest of your life taking vitamins (which you can only take with a small amount of liquid), and you may have horrid gastro-intestinal problems (like non-stop gas and diarrhea).
Worse, you probably will not take all your weight off (50-100 lbs is common) and even then much of it will usually come back within 5-10 years.
Just like with dieting.
Think I'm just a crazy ranter? Just use the magic powers of Google. Use "weight loss surgery dangers" Or try some of these links:
[healthcare-research.suite101.com]
[junkfoodscience.blogspot.com]
(the latter is written by a professional writer who is also a nurse.)
The ONE long-term study that was done, about which the media crowed, "This shows weight-loss surgery is safe and good for long-term weight loss!", did neither. It showed the high death rate, and it also found that after 10 yrs they could only find a small handful of people who had had the surgery. There's no way of knowing if their weight loss had stayed, if they'd had the surgery reversed, or even if they were dead. Most of the people included in the "study" were actually fairly recent patients, within the past 1-2 years.
]]>Ratty, I hear what you're saying, but I disagree. There are lots of healthy deals to be had if you shop smart. For example, in Food, Inc., there's a scene where a family has to choose between four bottles of soda for $5 and pears for $0.99/lb. They go with the soda, and complain that there are no affordable, healthy choices. Untrue! They could have had a dozen pears for that money! They wanted the soda, which was the difference.
I don't think obesity should be taxed in the slightest, but the "healthy food is too expensive" argument doesn't hold water. Especially when a pound of dried beans can be had for less than a buck.
]]>If we're talking percentages of taxes vs you guy I'm making a fair estimate of 5-8% higher tax because of health care, now for my family that entails potentially $24-32k a year from taxes that go toward it (overall household of 4 adults under this plan). Universal Healthcare benefits the poor more than any other group, though my family would be considered mid class here we try to use the shit out of that $25k+.
So what I want to know is what would $25k buy us in the US ? I'm naive to the prices individuals pay or family plans w/e so would someone indulge me ? My family has been strong believers in those that need help help themselves and before you jump on my nuts for the earnings we started off broke when we arrive here 20 years ago.
]]>Is there any reason to write something that ugly? I thought Consumerist was interested in watching out for all consumers, not just the thin, pretty ones.
]]>Now, if you'd like to try again and actually bring something to these comments that isn't "Wah wah, why can't you all be like me?", I am all ears.
]]>@Shallots: "Whole" ingredients to cook with cost as little as unhealthy prepared food.
HEALTHY and actually whole ingredients cost more.
]]>@You know what ole' Jack Burton always says: Jacka**, you can get seven apples for those $3. Or three boxes of pasta. Or five pounds of rice. Or four cans of beans. Or 1-1/2 pounds of chicken breast. Or three heads of lettuce. Or ...
Hmmm ... looks like healthy meals cost about the same. I know it's not salmon, but I could go on with fruits and veggies v. four ounces of sh**ty, grade-Z meat and so on and so on ...
Please stop. Think. Then write. Healthy stuff costs just as little as unhealthy stuff if you take the time to cook it.
]]>Look out, baldies. You're next!
]]>OTOH, theres not really much crying to be done. Unless romantic comedies make you cry :P
That, and Evanna Lynch looked totally and completely adorable as usual.
]]>I think in a lot of cases, it's both.
]]>Not yet...I'm going on Sunday morning when all the Dan Radcliffe groupies are either sleeping in or in church. So no "EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!" when he comes on the screen. :)
Also, I'm taking a BOX of Kleenex with me!
]]>Yeah, and don't even start on the pharmacists that won't fill BC prescriptions or Plan B.
]]>@katstermonster: No doubt. I don't drive and the only grocery store within walking distance is Whole Foods. oh, how I hate having to resort to $3/lb apples when my fruit runs low. :/
They're surprisingly cheap for some things like milk and some pantry staples, but oh man, the produce kills my bank account. Every delicious bite of it...
They have a farmers market there too every weekend but the prices are just as high.
]]>You sir, are ignorant and incorrect. Please read some scientific studies not subsidized by a diet company, a couple books on the subject (Rethinking Thin is a good place to start) and stop repeating your ridiculousness like it's true.
]]>@godai: Isn't it counter-productive to get that surgery then continue to eat bad food?
]]>I doubt it takes into account the vast complications that could arise afterwards that are directly related to the surgery but often get classified in other ways to avoid making bad press for the doctors.
According to [www.bigfatfacts.com] the mortality rates are frequently in the 4-6% range, and I doubt that it even STILL takes into effect all the health problems that can be CAUSED by WLS.
I'm glad that it worked for you, but I'm tired of people acting like it's the second coming and that it's this perfect and lovely procedure that magically pops you out as a thinner and better person.
]]>Yes, it's not going to be something that frequently saves a life, and no you shouldn't attempt it if you're not trained. But I fully believe that everybody who has a chance to SHOULD be trained in it and capable of using CPR if necessary.
Why? Because of those two out of 62 that it did help. Because I have a friend whose brother would have died at age six without it.
If you save one life, only one, out of a thousand attempts, rather than did nothing, then it would be worth it.
And it doesn't take a medical professional to learn proper CPR, nor does it take a medical professional to do it properly. It just takes training and practice.
]]>It is an unsafe surgery, it is causing more harm than good, and I believe it is far, far too easy to get as it is and it is glamorized in the media in a way that is detrimental to the public health.
]]>There have also been studies that show that when people are overweight and they go on crash diets, their body actually retains weight WORSE than it would if they were eating regularly, and basically switches into "starvation mode" in order to keep itself at the weight it is at. People who start out thinner don't have this side effect to the diets and meet with more success.
Basically, in the end, science doesn't match up with your anecdata and you are, in fact, wrong on multiple levels. But thanks for trying!
]]>"In a study of over 16,000 Medicare patients who underwent WLS from 1997 to 2002, 4.6% of the patients died within a year of the surgery.8 While mortality rates at "high-volume" WLS center can be as "low" as 1%, the overall mortality rate is in the 4% to 6% range.9 This compares to an age-adjusted death rate in the United States of 0.8533% in 2000-2002, according to the CDC's publication Health, United States, 2005.10"
-[www.bigfatfacts.com]
Weight loss surgery is still extremely dangerous, and doctors and articles like this are being completely irresponsible in their advocacy of it.
This surgery is KILLING PEOPLE who might have had other options if society was willing to look at them as more than "fat slobs" and give them alternatives that don't involve DYING.
]]>@jaya9581: Yeah, I have PCOS too. I am an educator, and I go walking and eat 1200 calories a day (low carb, too), and I don't ask for anything from anyone, but God forbid I get a little decent treatment. I'm basically resigned to being treated like a gutter dog because people assume I'm a lazy, overindulgent, brainless slob.
]]>@dreamsneverend: Our insurance doesn't even consider paying for it unless you are monitored by a doctor for six months and lose something like 20 percent of the TOTAL body weight (not 20 percent of the excess weight). Even then most people get turned down.
What happens to people who pay for it themselves? Well, when they have complications, the insurance company refuses to pay then, too, because they did not cover the original procedure.
]]>@katstermonster: My "research" is grocery shopping at many locaitons around town looking for average prices so I know what is/isn't normal food prices. I know the prices will vary in different regions but the point will remain the same--cheap refined versions of foods cost much less than what you SHOULD be eating. Not even highly processed foods. just low quality food.
I can't afford to eat the best of the best all the time. It's ridiculous. I eat as well as i possibly can all the same. Any assertion from anyone that you can just buy better ingredients cheaper is pretty false. Home cooking isn't really healthy if you use bad ingredients.
So it really raises my hackles to hear someone say "oh, just cook your food at home it's so much cheaper. healthier cooking is always cheaper," when it really really is not.
]]>The following message is being brought to you by the Director of the Institute of Sarcasm -
"OK, so we tax the fat people. We already tax smokers with cigarette taxes. We also tax alcoholics through liquor tax. Apparently we tax those with an unhealthy lifestyle. So, let's take it one step further. Tax all elderly. They have lots of health issues, so obviously since they intend to live past their prime, tax them. Tax all kids and teenagers. Their not yet fully developed immune systems and carefree attitudes contribute to a lot of hospital stays and doctor visits. Have anorexia or bulimia? Hey, there goes more weight, 20% of your income out of your wallet. Drug users? Hope you have more money to buy meth, we're gonna tax you. Those in dangerous occupations? Hazard tax. Criminals and gang members participating in violent crime? Yep, that's dangerous and unhealthy. Tax."
Seriously, when and where does it all end?
]]>Not to mention that it's known and well-publicized that the US gov't subsidizes corn and soy, which are used in processed foods, but not other produce.
]]>I agree that use of the term "fatty" in this article is pretty insulting. Regardless of how it was intended or any malice behind it, it should be changed.
I have been overweight most of my life due to a condition called PCOS. I am healthier than all of my "skinny" friends. My health care bills are practically non-existent.
That doesn't account of course for people like they proudly highlight in all the January weight-loss issue magazines, who went from eating 2 boxes of pasta a day or 3 square McDonald's value meals a day to reasonable servings.
Not all fat people are alike, and some of us are probably a lot healthier than the rest of you!
]]>Thanks for keepin' it classy, Consumerist.
Epithets. They're not just for breakfast anymore.
]]>@MaelstromRider: If someone does not make lifestyle changes after the surgery, there is no point in having it. They just gain the weight back.
And if a person is able to make those changes AFTER surgery, why didn't that person make the changes before resorting to surgery.
As far as I'm concerned, the surgery is a temporary fix most of the time.
]]>In case you can't tell - I ' m j o k i n g h e r e.
]]>Then add to the fact that you can't simply unzip the siutation--bodies do actually fiercely struggle to retain their storage, and the "use 3500 calories more than you take in" isn't actually a guarantee of weight loss, even without getting into thyroid and other issues.
The human character didn't suddenly radically change in the last forty years; technology, urban planning, and diet did. I therefore think it's naive to expect individual human character to be the solution.
]]>One also wonders how much tax money is spent in forklifts to move them around when they can't get outa bed!
]]>Of course junk food is cheaper but you dont get fat off of one burger or one package of Twinkies. You are eating horrible food in masse. That money that you spend on over processed, loaded with sugar, high in fat food could be spent at the supermarket buying lettuce, raw chicken, frozen vegetables, olive oil, milk, whole wheat bread, etc. Its about personal choice.
]]>@Adrienne Willis: I have to tell you you're full of a whole lot of crap here.
Healthy food isn't more expensive and it's an excuse? Let's look at cooking ingredients. Not processed junk, but stuff to make your meal with.
White minute rice @ $0.35/lb vs. Brown long grain jasmine rice @ $0.85/lb
Chicken legs @ $0.70/lb vs. lean turkey or chicken @ $2.99/lb+
85% lean ground beef @ $2.80/lb
Bagged iceberg lettuce salad (no nutritional value) @ $2 vs. components for a red lettuce or romaine salad (head, carrots, tomato, onion) @ $5+
Russet potatoes @ $0.10/lb vs. Sweet potatoes @ $0.99+/lb
Can of vegetables @ $0.40 vs. Frozen vegetables @ $1.20+/lb (frozen is generally better than fresh unless in a very short period for growing season)
Plain pasta @ $0.75/lb vs. Whole wheat pasta @ $1.40/lb
Plain white bread @ $1.15/loaf vs. whole wheat bread @ $2.50+/loaf
Then look at what coupons gets you. packaged food. Cheap and otherwise unhealthy food. It will not get you anything fresh or of substance. And beyond that, look at the foods without HFCS. Expensive.
]]>@You know what ole' Jack Burton always says: should have used spellcheck myself. mostly real words though, am I right? damn I fail at the first part of that response.
]]>@Munchie: First and probably most important thing to do when trying to make an intelligent arguement (yours is not anyway) is to use words that exist. conferrable, not a word. not even close to the word I think you're going for. if English is your second or third language, ok.
Now as for your "no medical reason" for being fat thing: there are a few reasons thyroid being one of them. ever seen a person with an HYPERthyroidism? they can't gain weight for anything. so it is very possible that the opposite could be true with HYPOthyroidism, right? I know most obese people don't have these conditions, however, some do. Do all Jewish people own Jewelry stores or work in show biz? nope (I wish) I could go on with the broad bruch examples, but I'll stick with my folks.
]]>I am astonished at the way all people eat. I go to Subway and see thin and fat people eating foot long sandwiches and a bag of chips, while I can't even finish a 6 inch with no chips. People in general have no concept of portion size. They always think they have to have chips and fries with everything, and drink soda by the gallon.
]]>First, what about those studies that say fat and obese people actually cost less than thin, healthy people? The conclusion of these studies is that fat people die sooner and cost the "system" less in the long haul. So if everybody is now thin and living longer, how will that save money?
Second, I'm calling bulls*** on the assumption that I, as a fat person, should have surgery just to appease everybody else. WLS (weight loss surgery) is friggin' DANGEROUS: infections, dumping syndrome, hair loss, nutritional deficiency, and bleeding are just some of the more pleasant side effects. My father, a rehab nurse, had to take care of many a WLS victim in a rehab hospital because of debilitating side effects. Those studies paint a much more rosy picture of WLS. There is a high risk of complications from those surgeries, most irreversible.
Finally is the general assumption that fat people are inherently unhealthy. The BMI system on which we base our judgement of "overweight" and "obese" is flawed. The BMI system was created by a mathematician, not a doctor or scientist, and is often wrong about the real "health" of people. Musclebound athletes are often cited as being "overweight" or "obese" when, in fact, they're just denser than everyone else.
We also assume that fat people are unhealthy and therefore "costing" the system. This is untrue. There's no evidence to suggest that fat people are more "unhealthy" than thin people. Thin people get diabetes, heart disease, and cancer at very similar rates to fat people. Fat women have fewer complications due to pregnancy than thin women.
Please refrain from posting such an irresponsible article without checking out all the facts first.
]]>If you truly just compared the holocaust with this, I'm not sure much would help you apart from talking to actual holocaust survivors so that you can understand how unimaginably childish that comparison is. If the extent of the Nazi persecution of the jews was to refuse to use taxpayer money for ailments caused by being Jewish (circumcisions?) then there wouldn't have been a holocaust for you to small mindedly belittle for your idiotic graspings for a point.
]]>Since I know that I am not the only one with severe thyroid disease, I think your stereotypes are just that. Not everyone who is fat eats crap.
]]>Here's an interesting article on how low-income neighborhoods do not have access to grocery stores, and therefore do not have as many choices for low cost healthy foods.
[www.preventioninstitute.org]
"Due to the lack of supermarkets in low-income areas, residents' local shopping options are often limited to smaller neighborhood stores. Small stores offer fewer food choices at higher prices than supermarkets. Reasons for differences in price, quality, and selection are varied, and are often tied to "economies of scale." For example, smaller stores cannot buy in volume, have limited access to large-scale wholesale produce, and often do not have the space or equipment needed to offer fresh produce on a daily basis.
Studies have shown that prices at neighborhood markets can exceed those at chain supermarkets by as much as 76 percent. A United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) report found that smaller stores also are unlikely to offer the variety of products carried by most major supermarkets. In a 1993 study in Eastern Pennsylvania, researchers found that the average full-service supermarket offered 19 kinds of fruit, 29 kinds of vegetables, and 18 kinds of meat, while the average small store only carried 6 kinds of fruit, 5 kinds of vegetables, and 2 kinds of meat. The study also showed that the produce and other foods offered in smaller stores were often lower in quality."
]]>So all fat people should hater themselves??? I am beautiful the way I am does something, it raises self-confidence and keeps mostly women from being so depressed about the state of things. It is when I accepted myself for the way I was that I loved myself enough to lose weight.
]]>*sigh*
Too bad you can't put that astonishing prognosticative power to better use elsewhere, because it sucks having commenters like you here.
]]>Next!
]]>Every one that says genetics, thyroid disorders and all that other crap is the reason they are fat are lying to themselves. Those are contributing factors that do not have total control of each persons weight situation. Do some people need to work much harder than other to lose weight, yes. Is it impossible for a person to lose weight, no.
If you have to work harder than the next guy to lose weight I am sorry. Now get with the program and stick with it and watch the results add up over time.
]]>@Outrun1986: "I think they should put an extra tax on junk food, but provided that something useful be done with the tax, like offer free cooking classes or something so people can learn how to cook properly (like that would ever happen though!)."
or put it towards helping lower the cost of healthier food. but that would never happen.
]]>@Adrienne Willis: forgot to add to my last comment..I bet you're still fat aren't you?
]]>@Adrienne Willis: Jacka**, look at the calorie content on some cheap foods then look at the price of those "health foods" cheap foods are packed with the shit that isn't in healthy foods like sugar and fat. so a big mac cost what like three dollars. and what does a 3oz prepared salmon filet cost. better yet, enough food from BK to feed your family of 4 or enough salmon and veggies to feed them as well.
hmmm...looks like healthy meal may cost more. and I know it doesn't have to be salmon, but I could go on with lean cuts of beef v. fatty cuts and so on and so on....
So please stop. think. then write. really, unhealthy stuff always has been and always will be cheaper.
]]>However, my mom dealt with weight problems most of her life and has always been overly sensitive about her weight. I have been at both ends of the spectrum - very thin and overweight. I can certainly say that being thin you get better customer service, people are generally more friendly, and you're more likely to have random people go out of their way to do something nice for you. I wouldn't say that I've noticed what I would call discrimination when being overweight, but I am certainly not treated the same as when I'm thin.
Because of those associations, I find "fatty" to be a more offensive word than "darky", but I really don't think either should be casually applied to people.
]]>@Adrienne Willis: I believe he/she was trying to let carbonfiberfootprint know that he's an ass
]]>My reasoning is that no one needs to be eating junk food (like greasy potato chips) and its not essential to life so people don't have to have it. This is slippery slope though, because it would be really hard to define junk food because there is so much of it out there.
NY state already tried to tax non-diet soda.
Its just amazing how much junk food is consumed in this society though, so anything that we can do to somehow reduce the amount being consumed cannot be bad for society as a whole. I don't consume it but there is just so much of it around me at parties and stuff that if I am not consuming it it makes me look like I am anorexic or weird. You also can't live under a rock, you have to socialize with your family so you have no choice but to be around the food, the only thing you can do is choose not to consume the bad foods. I live for the day when the bowl of fresh strawberries or blueberries replaces the bowl of chips at most house parties!
]]>Also, a lot of insurers pay for childbirth mainly because the government forces them to.
]]>@dreamsneverend: If your'e not morbidly obsese, then you have to have 1 or 2 other obesity-related conditions that would be improved or cured by losing weight in order to get approved for the surgery. That includes things like diabetes, high blood pressure, sleep apnea, etc.
]]>The BMI is not sound science. I loved Kate Harding's BMI Project that illustrates what "underweight" "normal" and "overweight" look like on actual people. [ [kateharding.net] ]
And NPR recently did a piece on BMI.
[www.npr.org]
I would love to see gastric band/bypass surgery be made more accessible to people. At work, I have 3 insurance plans to choose from and only 1 covers obesity-related surgery. And the requirements for that one go well beyond NIH recommendations and require a level of documentation that makes it difficult for any but the most chronically ill morbidly obsese people to qualify for the surgery to be covered.
While said in jest, government subsidies for obesity-related surgery would be an excellent use of money and probably result in more long-term benefits to our society than bailing out these freakin' banks.
]]>This country, (or at least where I live), likes to shove mental health problems under the table and pretend they don't exist. Perhaps if we focused on treating them a little more we might improve somewhat.
So you are correct, the surgery is not the only solution. It may be part of the solution for some people, but definitely not the whole solution.
]]>@squinko: I am in no way in favor of a tax on the fat. Possibly tax fattie foods but not the individuals.
]]>@NatalieErin: ack. How did I erase some of my sentences? First paragraph should read:
Aside from the points others have made, eating healthy takes significantly more time than eating fast food or frozen dinners or what have you. For the person working multiple jobs or commuting a long distance via bus, time may be a more precious commodity than money.
@justagigilo85: Aside from the points others have made, eating healthy takes significantly more time than eating fast food or frozen working multiple jobs or commuting a long distance via bus, time may be a more precious commodity than money.
@Saboth: Food subsidies aren't, and never were, intended to help the poor. They are intended to help farmers. And if you dont' like subsidizing the poor you better figure out a system in which people aren't punished by virtue of their being born into the wrong family
]]>That's a pretty good point you made there. The majority is made of of many minorities, and people only look out for themselves. Most people can't comprehend the slippery slope it seems.
]]>@kateblack: Words can also be defined by ignorance, which seems to be more of the issue here. But yes, you are very much right about picking battles. Just...wow.
]]>There is no reason for me to get produce from any grocery store.FIFY
Tell that to someone who lives in one of America's urban hellholes with no chain supermarket, let alone healthier alternatives such as farmers' markets. People really need to realize that not everybody lives in the same environment they do. "Green" people (the kind who bike to work, install solar water heaters in their homes, and eat nothing but organic locally-made tofu) make this mistake with annoying frequency.
]]>I may not have talked to every obese person, but I do have a degree that included a lot of nutrition, sports medicine, and similar classes, and it is sort of a personal hobby of mine to keep track of studies I come across. True, there are people that have medical conditions that have problems. And people with poor genes will have a harder time of it. But usually if they work hard, they can even overcome them. It is HARD WORK to maintain a healthy weight and lifestyle, and people don't want to do it. They want to plop down in front of American Idol with McDoubles from McDonalds. They want to go to the doctor and pop a pill, or have a band put on their stomach to stay thin. In short, they want it easy. It isn't a stereotype. When I go to the chinese buffet, and 65% of the people there are overweight, do I think "wow, big congregation of people with glandular problems tonight." nope.
]]>If there is ever a fat tax of any kind, I hope there would also be concurrent programs to help teach people how to eat properly, how to exercise and basic therapy for people who really can't do it on their own. The hardest thing for me was getting up and going to the gym. I'm lucky that my husband wanted to go too, and we encourage and support each other. A lot of people don't have that and it prevents them from doing anything about their weight.
Like I said too, poor people lack the money for preventative medical care. If they could go to a doctor and get a basic blood test done, they could see how they need to manage their cholesterol, or if they have thyroid issues that can easily be managed with cheap medication, etc. I think it's going to take a combination of things to help a large group of fat people in any meaningful way.
]]>We can increase our bust, ass, and calf sizes while reshaping faces but if you want to take what steps you feel you need to lose weight, you get scoffed at. This isn't even an insurance coverage issue, but you need a doc to sign off on it and most won't unless you are into the morbid range.
]]>My "common stereotypes" are there for a reason. How many times have we walked into a restaurant and seen the heavy people eating the high calorie, fried foods? These are usually the same people that turn around and say "oh my thyroid, my this, my that". How about you put the burger down and eat a salad. I have no sympathy for people that choose to take the easy way out. Weight loss is not an easy thing, it never will be but I am tired of hearing the excuses as to why something cant be done.
I dont dismiss that there are people with real medical conditions that make it difficult to be a healthy weight but more often than not it is because of poor choices that a person is fat. Its just that we as Americans love to blame everyone but ourselves.
]]>I dont buy the argument that they cant afford healthy food, you can afford shitty food and alot of it to be the size you are, so again it comes down to choice. You choose to satisfy that craving for potato chips instead of spending that money on lettuce and chicken and making your own food. You tax fat people, you hit their wallet. No one likes to give more money to the government so that will be their incentive to lose the weight and live a healthy lifestyle.
As far as people with health issues, why is it American people claim health issues, disabilities when you dont see that in Europe, Asia, Africa or Latin America? You may have conditions but dont use that condition as an excuse. Is it something in the water here or do people ride on the coat tails of someone like you and your mom that truly have a difficult time with their thyroid?
]]>@godai: I think you've just helped explain why poorer people tend to eat poorer.
A small fries and one double cheeseburger contains about 700 calories, 34 grams of fat and 1,310 grams of sodium. Oh, and tack on another 300 calories (including 70 grams of sugar!) for the soda that's probably being consumed at the same time.
All for 2 or 3 bucks.
]]>The blog Junk Food Science has some very good articles on obesity surgery and they are all backed up by scientific studies. Their conclusion is the surgery does not help the patient, it actually harms them.
I lost one friend to this surgery, and this lead me to the truth about how horrid this surgery really is. It should be banned. People come in all sizes. Let's stop vilifying those who are fat.
I had a ton of side effects, but I would do it again...and I saved about 5 grand just from not eating as much. Pretty swank :)
]]>Weight loss surgeries do NOT guarantee permanent weight loss. Many people (no, I don't have hard numbers, just anecdotal evidence) gain the weight back.
Why?
Discuss amongst yourselves...
]]>a little rewording applies to exactly what i want to point out
When they came for the smokers
I remained silent;
I was not a smoker.
Then they locked up the obese,
I remained quiet;
I was not obese.
Then they came for the gays,
I did not protest;
I was not gay.
Then they came for the Handicapped,
I did not speak out;
I was not handicapped.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out for me.
The last time i checked, when someone wanted to purge the nation of a certain kind of people .. they were called NAZIS
]]>And then there are threads like @Saboth's, which don't use any hotbutton words, but present more of the same problematic fatphobic hysteria as ever.
Pick your battles.
]]>Only fat people will get to impose this special tax, though. It's only fair.
]]>I am as much against stereotyping and painting everyone with the same "you eat too much" brush, but I seriously doubt that "most" people are obese because of medical conditions.
]]>A tax on the obese would essentially become a poor tax.
@Adrienne Willis: My mother has hypothyroidism, and I have it. That's genetics and that's why I have trouble losing/not gaining weight, even though I eat right and exercise. The last time we had this discussion, people spoke about their many different illnesses/conditions that made them fat. Please don't discount others' problems just because you hate your family for making you fat.
Also, please explain how taxing people who can't afford healthy food in the first place will help them afford healthy food in the future.
]]>Obesity is caused by one thing, and one thing only: eating way more calories than you burn. End of story.
Sure, there are conditions or medications that may make you absorb more calories than another person eating the same piece of food, have a lower basal metabolism that causes you to burn fewer calories, or problems with satiety signals that make you want to eat more calories. However, simply put, by restricting the number of calories ingested, all of these can be overcome.
Sure, especially in the case of satiety issues, a person will be unhappy, but that's just the break life threw them.
I can engineer a rat or shoot it up with all kinds of drugs to mess with his metabolism, but if I don't put extra food in his cage, he's not going to get fat. Same with humans. It is a choice, the end.
]]>Did you watch the new HP movie?
]]>@MostlyHarmless: I was explaining that Featherstnehaugh's point probably wasn't aimed at fit and healhy people; it was likely directed at the great number of people who wag their fingers at "fatties" but get winded at the top of the stairwell (or would if the elevator ever broke down).
]]>I think there ought to be a certain level of nutritional benefit something has to reach in order to be called "food." IMHO, "food" should mean something more than "if you eat this, it will not kill you today." A lot of what is sold as "food" these days is just "edible product." Just making it clear that some things don't count as actual food would help a lot, I think.
]]>And for the record, "supermodel thin" looks sick too.
]]>People choose to eat the french fries over the apple, or drink the soda instead of water, or sit on their fat ass instead of exercising.
I am definitely down for taxing the morbidly obese. Dont want to be taxed? Change your eating habits and lifestyle. It may suck but you will live longer in the end, feel better about yourself, spend less money on food and stop being a burden on our health care system.
]]>@bohemian: Excellent point. A great video about this starts
I can't eat anything like I did before, and the cost of my healthcare, minus the surgery has gone way, way, way down (see what I did there).
]]>@MostlyHarmless: skinny != fit and healthy
]]>I'm always a fan of preventative medicine and curing the underlying problem rather than dealing with symptoms, so I'm OK with this. But, now, where's the surgery to stop people from smoking, drinking to excess, or lazing around the house all day and only getting sun/exercise when the snow needs to be wiped off of the satellite?
]]>They could save a lot of money if they did that. It's the same way they pay for childbirth but not birth control. Um...hello.
]]>@mahpartysocks: Agreed. The article makes a good point, but the namecalling is unnecessarily offensive and damages crediblity.
@kateblack: I don't think there's anything wrong with "fat" as a descriptor, but "fatty" is different. To more clearly understand my point, consider that "dark" is just fine... and now imagine the response upon calling somone "darky".
]]>You say "some" over consume, but I'd wager that amount is more along the lines of 90% do, and 10% can be blamed more on genetics.
I'd say your theory falls apart due to the fact that most foreign nations that have different foods (not fried, fatty, etc), and the landscape is more tuned for walking...typically have VERY few obese people.
]]>Err...20% body fat for a woman is pretty normal.
]]>@squinko: As often as possible I try to think like an economist. I've wondered, do fat parents have fat kid because of genetics or because they have unhealthy eating & living habits that they in turn pass on to their kids? Is it genetics or do fat parents prepare fat filled meals for their kids?
]]>As much as we'd like to paint obese people as hapless victims, the vast majority are that way through personal choices and decisions, and nothing more. Not glandular problems, not genes, just the fact they like to eat, and eat lots of bad things, and they don't want to do the hard work to maintain a good body. It's a hard truth.
]]>I'd prefer if people made their own choices rather than the government deciding what we should and shouldn't eat. Also, I am tired of the government subsidizing the poor.
]]>I'm 5'11 and 153lb. My wife eats like a bird, she's not as lucky in her metabolism. It isn't what you eat most of the time. Hell, until a few years ago, I was considered underweight (when I was 23, I was 123lb)
]]>Which I think is good thing anyway. I understand that you may not, but your arguing as if the system were different than it is.
]]>It's just a descriptor. Unless you think the descriptor "fat" is inherently bad, it shouldn't be offensive.
]]>I had to be on a physician monitored diet for 6 months, had a sleep study done, and a psychological examination before having the surgery done.
]]>DAM!!
'tard
]]>The real reason why people want to eliminate obesity is because it is UGLY and they don't like LOOKING at it. Do you really think for a minute that people care about the well-being of others? If they did, they would learn to mind their own business and clean their own house first...
]]>@CarbonFiberFootprint: Um, no. Women can easily hit the 20% mark without being obese or unhealthy by any stretch of the imagination. Last I checked, I'm around 19%, and I'm 5 foot 10 and 150 pounds, putting me at a BMI of about 21.5, which is in the healthy range. I eat well, I go to the gym regularly, I ran 2.5 miles the other day, and yet I'm 1% away from getting hit by your Fat Tax? Right.
]]>@HIV 2 Elway:
WIN
I'm not Incredibly Obese Black Man, I'm Incredibly Black Obese Man.
]]>Obesity can also be caused by genetics, environment, or many other factors.
Yes, some simply do consume too much, but slapping a punitive tax on everyone who does not meet your standards is stupid and unfair.
]]>@CarbonFiberFootprint:
I see your fat tax and I raise you BLACK TAX
@ThinkerTDM: Agreed. The "I'm beautiful the way I am" movement was created (and rightfully so) to combat eating disorders and help people who are healthy and in shape but don't look like supermodels. It's gone too far, though, and it's doing a disservice to the millions of people in this country who are obese and faced with weight-related health issues.
]]>I definitely don't eat out as much which cuts cost.
When I do order out it has become alot cheaper.
I used to be able to finish an order of cheese sticks and a large pizza from Papa Johns.
Now I'm full after 2-3 slices. So a pizza will last me 3 meals.
Also I can get full on a small fry and a double cheese burger. So $2 rather then the $7 or so for a super-sized value meal.
]]>@bohemian: I also agree with you about the social views as well- being obese is unhealthy. Hiding behind "that's the way I am" and "I'm beautiful the way I am" does nothing.
]]>@bohemian: At one point, I would have disagreed with you, but I have lost 15 pounds, and have noticed the amount of shit out there. The biggest thing I have noticed- it's far cheaper to eat that crap than to buy the healthy stuff. Vegetables are pretty expensive when compared with the dollar menu.
]]>Well it won't matter in a few months when national healthcare replaces Medicare and Medicaid. They'll probably refuse to cover the cost of the drugs or the surgery. Much more cost effective that way.
]]>