Also, after I left, and started my own computer shop, I was contracted to install Self Checkouts in some of their stores. These things are a pain in the butt, period. Self checkouts are great for quick checking out for express lanes, but when that's the only thing you have after 10pm, it's nuts. At Stop & Shop, they had these lanes set up for express checkouts only, and then there was still atleast one human staffed register open at all times (mostly there were 4-5 staffed registers open overnight.)

The ones at Kroger are lousy. First of all, the ones in the store I shop at, even if you tell it that you're skipping bagging, you are still hassled to put in the bagging area, even if it's full. The idea is good, but to take jobs away from folks that can not, either find a job due to poor economic conditions in that area, or are actually trying to further themselves is even worse. In my opinion, Kroger needs to do away with the overnight self-checkouts only routine and make self checkouts, express lanes only.

And we kept the U-Scan open as well for people like myself that are mysteriously somehow capable of using the machines without needing the cashier to approve every interaction with the screen. To me it's less stressful than waiting for the old biddy to spend ten minutes looking for her favorite pack of smokes and then paying for everything with nickles and dimes.

We have this problem at Home Depot. I am a cashier working part time (paying off credit cards). I understand people's frustrations with self-check out (SCO), especially if only one register is open other than SCO. I agree that they should have more than one lane open. Customers deserve choices, however; people make SCO to be way more horrible than it really is.

I would like to make a few points:
1) Yes, the area where you set the items once you have scanned them is a giant scale. It is to ensure that the items are ringing up correctly and to help prevent shrink (theft, inadvertent or not). If you put your purse, items you bring into the store, remove items you have scanned, or if your child continues to climb all over the scale, the system will have a fit. Assistance will be required.
2) Being that this is a computer run system it takes some time for the system to go through the process of identifying the item, and weighing it to make sure it matches. It does not move at the speed of light. A little patience is required.
3) If you approach SCO with a little less hostility and a little more patience you will see that it is not the evil creation you think it is. Granted it may not be your prefererd way of checking but it is an alternative to waiting in line if you only have a few items.
4) Give the cashier a break. It is not their fault you do not know how to use the system. It is not their fault you do not have the patience to learn to use the system. It is no their fault that management has decided to only keep SCO and one other lane open. Please do not scream at them.
If you really want to complain, ask to speak to the manager on duty or call and speak to the store manager. They are the people who make the decisions. Not the cashier.

self checkout is nice for one or two items, but awful for a lot of items. Much slower.

If you don't like, figure out how it works!

So these are U-Scan1 units with a single bag rack then?

"there isn't a 15 item limit at my Kroger."

Then the store needs to post signs. Whether or not there are signs, the Uscans are always limited to the amount of items you can place in the bagging area. You are not supposed to remove any bags or items before paying.

"Vegetable look up still sucks"

Yes it does. I didn't say otherwise.

"Wow? So Kroger can't trust me to enter a meat or cheese barcode and weigh the item, but Meijer, Giant Eagle and WalMart have all managed to do that?"

I don't believe Kroger's system is able to do that. There is a single barcode for departments but that is only used when there is no barcode or the barcode isn't in the system. That's because it messes up inventory. And the computers can't take the item's barcode number and weigh it.

"Way to write an apology for a sucktastic system. Someday,"

That wasn't an apology. I'm simply trying to explain how these machines function.

"Really, if me stealing your stuff is such a worry"

The bag scale thing isn't simply to combat theft. There are many times when customers think an item has scanned and place it in the bag.

Wal-Mart's are decent, but a bit slow and unresponsive, and often closed. They have 9 but three of them have never been operational.

Save on Foods' are terrible. I have to press the buttons repeatedly before they respond - they appear "pressed" on the screen, but nothing happens. I have to press "Start Now"; it's not intelligent enough to start when I scan something. It takes several seconds to recognize each item, and several more for each menu to appear.

Another local grocery store - alas I don't recall which - has some that are alright, except every voice prompt is followed by "have you scanned your rewards card yet?" Shut up!

BTW, the store I'm talking about is Food4Less, which is ghetto Kroger.

I've been to several stores that wouldn't allow items to NOT be on the scale. I asked them why and they said I would have to use a human lane if I had too many items, obviously not answering the question and making me automatically use the human lane at those stores from then on.

I agree, it is more efficient just to have the customer do it in your examples. Efficiency is good and saves me time because time = money. I don't want to necessarily wait for someone to scan every item, slowly, and bag it for me, when I can do the same process they do but faster. However, you're right, these things are not to the point where it is more efficient, so they're fucking worthless in that respect. Only recently did the Ralphs by my work upgrade their machines to be a little bit more user friendly. However, anything complicated beyond just a few simple items immediately negates the efficiency and increases the frustration by 100x because there is no personal control over these machines and you still end up waiting for the self-checkout cashier to help you.

@West Coast Secessionist: I dunno, although that is the one thing that always comes up everytime I use the Walmart machines.

Weis Markets variant is rather evil too, the machine demands (and I do mean demands) you to put stuff on the conveyor to be taken to the baggings area. I dislike doing that with glass bottles, since the end of the belt is a downward slope of rollers that inevitable knocks many things over to let it bounce against the back wall of the bagging zone. I know one of these days something is gonna break in the process.

@Ryan Allen:

2) the bagging area is a scale.. what is so hard for people to understand about it? Put your item in the bag and scan the next one.

No shit. I'm a computer programmer, I know how its supposed to work. The problem is IT DOESN'T. Re-arrange an item, or drop one, or use your own bag, and boom, you are now wasting time waiting for assistance.

Self-scan and bagging is NOT for the customer's convenience as they claim. As others have observed here, the scanners suck and the employees know that they are halfway to technological unemployment, so they don't care.

It's all about lowering costs so the companies can cut labor. The savings go to the shareholders and upper managers.

Regardless, not having enough lanes open is clearly a Management Mistake.

About the only thing that would have made it better were the ends in the UK supermarkets when I was growing up. Basically it was wider at the bottom, and in the middle was a swinging divider. If the last person wasn't done bagging, you flip it over and the groceries are sent to the other side, keeping them separate.

Our local Meijer has U-Scans that allow you to scan a basket full of groceries, but if you run into a problem, you have to deal with a surly cashier who would rather talk to her BFF than you.

I had it with Kroger after wasting an hour getting a prescription filled, only to find out they only had a day's worth in stock. Still waiting for them to address that complaint.

Non-Kroger shoppers are unlikely to get that joke, but I digress...

If you truly hate using self-checkouts and they are the only option available (many stores seem to be doing this during non-peak hours nowadays), just tell the manager or attendant on hand that you are legally blind (or prone to epileptic seizures caused by U-Chung) and watch them do all the work for you.

Note: May not be wise to read the nearby magazines while this is going on.

My last experience was buying a vitamin water, took about 3 minutes, the machine didn't recognize the weight of the bottle and the associate in charge of the lanes acted like I was crazy and stupid after she unlocked/reset/fixed the thing from her computer.

They seem expensive, but they're actually fresher than canned tuna (they're not double-cooked). And NO water to drain. So that 3 oz is all tuna.

By the by - there isn't a 15 item limit at my Kroger. Not that I dare to go through with more than that unless I want to be there an hour.

Moving my bags becomes necessary because I can no longer fit crap in the paper-sized area. I supposedly can once the weight has "taken" by the scale. But it seems to ask no less than three or four times for me to put the damn bag back on the scale since I might have some clever scam that involves taking the bag off the scale too fast.

Vegetable look up still sucks - and I NEVER use categorie - I don't feel like flipping through nonsense just to find the damn arugula. It's that Kroger doesn't bother to do multi-name listings - which would be customer friendly. It won't look up a partial PLU - because they fail to realize that all that water means PLU stickers fall off and get mangled. It is also hella slow and painful. And when I do get herbs or chilies, these don't register on my paper-sized scale when I transfer it to my damn bag even though they just weighed on the damn scale after finally getting the damn lookup name right. Because I'll apparently steal the $.14 worth of red hot peppers I finally was able to find the thing on the least-friendly interface known to man.

Wow? So Kroger can't trust me to enter a meat or cheese barcode and weigh the item, but Meijer, Giant Eagle and WalMart have all managed to do that? Or do they only have 1 barcode that means "meat" and one that means "cheese?" And then the manual barcode on a box of pasta is cool for prices? Huh?

Wow. You've totally sold me on an inferior system that ends with "a thief can get one for 5 cents."

Way to write an apology for a sucktastic system. Someday, I hope that the management goes to the other stores and realizes that the bulk of their cheese and meat theft isn't going through the self-checkout.

Really, if me stealing your stuff is such a worry, save the cash on the upgrades and security and the self-checkout. Just give me more clerks so management can feel "safe" about the untrustworthy customer.

It depends on the store, though, and the machines/software they use. I remember when these first started appearing, they'd get stuck all the time. I hate that "unexpected item in the bagging area" warning. Now I just put the items in the bagging area but do not actually put them in the bag - I'm afraid I'll anger the machine. :)

They seem to be a bit better now - for some items, you don't have to scan the bar code or key in the item code. I think there's some sort of camera that identifies the item?

I love a self check-out for me, because I can use it. I hate a self check-out because the person in front of me NEVER knows how to use it, and is slow as a turtle. Scan the items, bag em one at a time, press you're done, pay the machine, take your bags, change if necessary and receipt, get the hell out of the way. How hard is that? I can usually do it in under 2 minutes with a loaded cart, 25 seconds if I have 5 or less.

Paint tray liners are a hassle too. Ever try to go through self checkout with like... ten of those? :D AND they stick together. Double the fun.

[www.starkist.com]

Tuna. In a pouch. With FLAVORS. <3

I work as a cashier, not in a grocery store, but we do have self-checkouts, and usually when this "loop" happens it's because the cashier has overridden the machine's weight mis-match and then the customer has taken the item out, causing the machine to wonder where that weight suddenly ran off to, then they put it back, override, etc. into infinity.

That's more human error than machine error, and I assure you it's just as annoying for the cashier as it is for the customer. :)

@LuciaScipio: @BigSlowTarget: I have never had a problem at Home Depot, but this guy in Seattle destroyed one when it would only speak Spanish to him:

[www.seattlepi.com]

@Fett101: @gttim: I go to Fred Meyer, and it took me a while to get the cloth bag thing down, but here is how it works on mine. Once you get to the part where you can start scanning stuff, you push the button to input a code, like you are doing produce. Then you enter the code for cloth bags, which is 1075 at the Fred Meyer and QFC I have used, and it looks like the same computer system as the Kroger pictured above. Then it asks how many bags you have and asks to weigh them. Then you weigh them, it says ok, you put the bags on the bagging area, and continue on. Always works for me.

Although i do skip using my reusable bags out of concern for my sanity "UNEXPECTED ITEM IN BAGGING AREA!"

Do you think it would be insane to hit "skip bagging" on every item after scanning, and then bag directly into my reusable bag in my cart? I haven't tried that yet. I wonder if the employee would look at me suspiciously.

@MissPiss: They are usually closed becasue they still need to have somone standing their helping idiots who cant follow instructions. Which makes it pointless to have.

Our walmart has 6 self checkouts, and usually 2-3 people helping morons use them, which is still better than having 6 people helping 6 registers, but they probabaly think those cashiers would be better off running a register than monitoring people try to figure them out.

@Stephmo: I'm...not sure what you're talking about. My jalapeno weighed enough to trigger the scale. I then placed it on the belt (this was at Stop & Shop, they have a conveyor belt with weight sensors), which was not sensitive enough to think I had even placed anything on the belt at all. Yes, the 'no weight on the belt' trigger is meant to deter theft, but I was confused by the discrepancy in sensitivity between the produce scale and the conveyor scale.

@lehrdude: Maybe no one is understanding how this system works... S&S has a conveyor belt with sensors in PLACE of the weight-sensitive bagging area. You place stuff on the belt LONG before you pay for it. There was no audit...this was a system bug that was preventing me from even purchasing the jalapeno in the first place without the help of the attendant.

I was really irked that I had to take that route instead of having 1 cashier open for those random people who don't live a 9-5 lifestyle.

Otherwise, I <3 self checkout. usually if I'm only getting enough for a meal that day or a couple of odds and ends.

@LuciaScipio: Seconded - I have never seen a Home Depot store with only self checkout open and I'm there almost every day (work). The problems with them are light items and multiples (try buying 54 little bagged pieces and you'll be there all day).

Self check-out would be great if Walmart EVER had those damn things open!!!! I hate waiting in line for an hour while those things are closed for no reason!!!

Anyone not paying attention, or looking at the image rather than words, would probably select "Organic apples" rather than "Enter produce number," and thus pay an "organic" premium for their ordinary produce. I wish I had taken a picture of it.

I do wish the store I worked at had a self-checkout machine. We only have one "Express" register (10 items or fewer--yes, that is the proper word) and when the store is busy, that register has many customers. A self-checkout would ease that burden.

Now, if someone could invent a way for me to block out the customers, that's your killer app.

Peter Gibbons in Officespace speaking to the hypnotist about work:
"Can I just come home and think I've been fishing all day or something?"

The weight scale is my big pet peeve on the machine... but thanks to whoever coded FastLane for the Skip Bagging button.

There is but it's supposed to be used by the cashiers when checking out large orders themselves (like during a rush when the regular checkouts are packed and self-checkout is empty. Or overnight when self-checkout is the only thing open) Sadly though, it's still really slow at scanning so the issue may not be the scale itself but poorly coded software.

"Items that are too small lead to machine freak outs"
Properly working, these machines can detect a single paper bag (and then some). If it can't pick up a packet of tuna or a bunch of herbs then there's something wrong with that machine.

"If you take your bag away too fast which seems to be in less than an hour"
Before or after completing payment? You're not supposed to remove bags before paying, and it doesn't really matter if the machine is upset from you removing bags after paying.

"The vegetable look-up is horrendous."
The newest update allows you to search by name for produce, which is much faster then the category menus. Most people still use the categories because they're used to it. There's still the issue of a dozen different options for a single type of produce. There's no way for the people in the store to edit this list, so if you're not sure just press the "Item not displayed" button and the cashier can enter the right number for you.

"The attendant will come over and manually enter your bar code because you can't really be trusted."
The price of meat, cheeses and other items by the pound is in the barcode itself. So, no, customers can't be trusted. An incompetent customer can easily end up with a $50 piece of cheese and a theif can get one for 5 cents.

I shop regularly at my local Fry's (a Kroger brand) and no one ever seems to have issues. Most times, the cashier running the self check out area is just sitting around looking bored because everything is running so smoothly.

I've ran into one self check out that was easier than the Fry's (Kroger) brand and that is at Fresh&Easy. All they have is self check out and it is probably one of the best systems I've ever used.

Let's be careful not to label China and many of the countries that operate under the illusion of communism as anything but frauds. The label gets applied, but the megalomaniac dictators barely, if ever, follow the true tenets of Karl Marx. And no, I don't think communism would succeed, even if done properly, as I firmly believe a true democracy would never succeed.

Believe it or not, I actually agree with you in part on unions. There are many bloated union fat cats out there have done just as much to demise industry in the U.S. as the corporations that move overseas have. UAW is a prime example - while I think auto workers need a union, the UAW has gone beyond what is necessary and reasonable for its workers and accomplished some pretty lofty goals, like average pay for auto workers being astronomically high and the extremely high cost of retirement that Detroit bears. With that said, Detroit is just as much to blame because for the past 30 years or more, the Big 3 have banked on people buying their product based on name and the 'Made in the USA' label and have largely disregarded the state-of-the-art engineering and quality that made their vehicles american icons.

But to blame the demise of US industry on unions is inaccurate. For every union that has done harm, there's ten greedy CEOs that found that they could make 350% margin rather than 100% margin by moving their factory to a country with lackadaisical labor laws. Why pay a US worker minimum wage or more and have to pay for benefits, workers comp insurance, etc. and deal with a pesky union that demands 10 cent an hour increases in pay every six months when you can avoid all those headaches by paying child laborers a fraction of the US minimum wage and not have to deal with strict workplace regulations?

I hate to beat a dead horse, but look at Nike: They sell Air Jordan's for over $100 a pair and it cost Nike less than $5 to make the shoes. Sure, if they were made in the US it would cost a lot more than that to produce, but how much more exactly and just how much of their astronomical profit would they be cutting into? Not to mention they would be perceived as saviors for bringing jobs back to the states. They could open a non-union shop stateside and people would still line up to work there.

There's a ton of non-union companies that are viewed as highly favorable to work for by its employees, so for a company to cite union interference as a reason to take jobs overseas is nothing but a cop-out. If companies put people before profits, most of the issues that brought unions into prominence would be history and unions would become non-factors. It's already begun to happen, but we're ways away from being a country with socially-responsible corporations. Once this happens on a grand scale, unions will die.

Doesn't work. Kroger self-checkouts are accurate enough to detect the removal or addition of a single paper bag.

Menards Hardware Stores have some weird checkout aisles. They are not self-serve. The checker is on the same side of the conveyor belt as the customer. It always feels strange when I go there.

@matt1978:
I have a King Soopers near me which is a division of Kroger and either we have a completely different self check system or Im a genius. I can get through a six person, do the self check out, bag groceries, and be out of the door in way less than I used to when I had to wait for a checkout person. I think it took me maybe two attempts before I learned the system.

But for all those people who either refuse to learn or want someone else to do the work, they should have at least two lines with humans doing the work.

@NotChoinski:
Few points..
1) theres no reason you should be doing your entire weeks shopping at self check out.. that crap drives me nuts. They need to have a couple lanes open for people with more than a few items.
2) the bagging area is a scale.. what is so hard for people to understand about it? Put your item in the bag and scan the next one.
3) the only time I dont like Uscans are when purchasing alcohol.. if a cashier assistant isnt there, it can be a PITA

It really is store-by-store, though. I never have trouble at my grocery store and am eager to use them because they have 7-8 of them and I rarely have to wait in line. I have had trouble in different types of stores, though, and I know others have a terrible time with their local grocery stores. There's no blanket answer here.

@JulesNoctambule: great, thanks for asking.

As I am an undercover corporate shill, I'd like to point out that we have a local Kroger (Gerbes in reality- same thing though). Until recently the self-checkout was pretty awful, mainly bagging area snafus that make the whole process lock up tighter than Evel Knievel's jumpsuit. But lo and behold, Kroger pushed out and upgrade and gave unto us a wonderment: the "skip bagging" button. Ever since then, if it looks dicey, i quickly push that button and have successfully avoided lockups ever since.

@David Rodriguez: Yeh, what the others said... I've traced your internet history anf it's obvious see you don't always walk between the white lines, do 40 in a 35 zone, put old postage stamps on mail after the rate changes, mail you tax return in the 17th thinking their lucky they have it, always dip in the extra penny cup at the donut shop, never return library books on time...

Gawd, YOU ARE AN EVIL, EVIL BAD MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can honestly say that 75% of the problems people have are because they don't follow the instructions on screen, or spoken to them by the machine. They are designed for 85 year old grandma to be able to use....so sometimes you just have to follow the U-Scan lady's instructions very literally.

On the other hand, there's no excuse for only having 1 other lane open at 7 at night...especially with a line. My store only goes down to one regular lane after 11 PM...and we always call more cashiers if needed.

One final thing--please be kind to your U-Scan attendant. We have a lot to look over--and have many customers needing help at once. My particular store has 8 machines--normally all in use. Plus I have to answer the switchboard, and look over the baggers. We try our best...please be patient!

@Stephmo: I know this is OT, but what's a tuna envelope?

I never knew about not having an option for the deposit vouchers -- I use mine whenever I get my money orders for rent. That does kinda suck, though.

I've never had a significant problem at Kroger. Maybe one stuck item per 5 visits at most. The interface (before and after a recent upgrade) is super easy. The only even remotely difficult part is looking up produce.

I think the big problem is people who roll up with a jumbo cart load of groceries and expect a little self check lane with 2-6 bagging spots to accommodate their month of food. These systems simply aren't designed for high volume. Full carts are better of using traditional lanes. Leave the self checks to baskets and very lightly loaded carts.

@Julius_Seizure: But for the lawyers that live in smaller cities and start their own firm or work for small firms, they basically make what a teacher does. They could have saved themselves years of law school if they only knew...

Yeah - pretty close on average - especially if you factor in the retirement pensions and health insurance benefits that teachers get. I think that what you are saying supports the initial point I was attempting to make. MOST attorneys don't go to law school planning to make $60k working for some small firm. They go HOPING to make big money. Most do ok, and a few do great. At the end of the day everyoone is striving to be the guy who is doing great - except for the guy who has ALREADY done great - he joins some 10 man firm, writes a few wills, and spends most of his time fishing.

It's really not that hard to understand and use...

@Julius_Seizure: We go from the merits of a living wage to one of us hypothetically starving tonight.

The hypothetical starving me certainly didn't take his lithium. He may hear some voices and even see some things that are not there - but he sure as heck is not splitting any meals with you. You can sit around talking about how you deserve half of the food while I make a spear. Now that I have the only spear you better hope there are some hypothetical animals on our hypothetical island that are slower than you are...

But seriously - is China offering to "split the meal" with the manufacturing sector in the US? As far as I can tell the fittest and most efficient competitor is thriving while our union based "i deserve" sector is falling on its own spear.

Bill B

But they do vary wildly in convenience. Kroger's are ok, but I vastly prefer the ones that Lowes Foods (and the few Food Lion's that do have them) use where you have your own lane, scan your own coupons, etc. I don't think of this as "doing the store's work". I think of it as saving time by doing things myself. So why would I want to wait for the U-Scan attendant to get around to scanning my coupons?

@pupu:
Are you talking about supermarket management, or a simple checkout clerk? I'd like to know where these supermarket checkout jobs are that you can earn $45k a year.

No one I know that works as a supermarket checkout clerk (in NY) makes anywhere near that. In fact, that was my daughter's first job and I think she earned $7/hr (about 5 years ago) and the health insurance was too expensive!

Oh, the pain.

@Julius_Seizure: Those nine million people with law degrees would be better off working for a large firm because statistics show that the bigger the law firm, the higher the annual pay will be. Take NYC for example: a starting lawyer in a firm with 2-10 attorneys makes an average of $62,149/yr. In a firm with 250 or more attorneys, the average starting pay is $157,243.

OK - you have the numbers but you don't understand what they mean. A starting lawyer in a firm of 2-10 attorneys is (in most cases - I'm sure you can find some exceptions if you look) joining the firm as a partner - basically a proprietor who shares some office costs with other proprietors. An attorney who joins a firm with 250+ other attorneys joins as an employee.

Very few new lawschool grads join small firms as partners or as employees. The small firms are mostly made up of seasoned attorneys who still want to practice, but have made enough money that they don't really need to. Your numbers may be correct but your assumption that law firms are like gorcery stores or school districts in that they all hire from the same labor pool is just wrong. A new grad (again - in most cases) has no option to join a 2-10 attorney firm.

Also, if you look up the stats again, I bet you will see that compensation rates are much closer to the $157k figure you cite for attorneys joining the firm size tier appearing directly below 250+ tier. You use the highest tier and compare it to the lowest tier - way to try to make the numbers work for you.

"good enough" really isn't "good enough" anymore.

The one totally unacceptable self-checkout I've encountered is Wal-Mart's. (Shut up, my parents live in the country.) It's not designed to be used by one person -- the bagging area is ten feet away from the scanner, and there's no stopping the conveyor belt. And it's kind enough to loudly and clearly announce the price of everything I buy, as if I didn't already stand out there.

Missing PLU stickers on produce/vegetables is a pain, though. There's a lookup feature but it's incomplete - if you have hot-house tomatoes it'll be in there, if you have on-the-vine specialty ones, you'll need the clerk's help.

Other than that, the only problem I regularly have with self-checkout is getting stuck behind people who don't know how to use them and take forever. I've also never used a Kroger one, though. (Lucky Supermarkets represent)

@matt1978: Also, if you're upset on the way California does things, why not run for office, organize like-minded folks, or move to a state that is more in line with your ideals?

All I can say is someone like yourself who somehow knows that I have not "run for office, organize like-minded folks, or move[ed] to a state that is more in line with your ideals" must have amazing psychic powers. FYI I don't even live in Cali - that was an example that came to mind because about 7-8 years ago grocery checkers there went on strike because they were being asked to pay a higher portion of their own health insurance.

Yes the technology could be light years better, but I prefer using self checkout every time at my local Kroger. There's always some bonehead acting like scanning your own stuff is rocket science taking way too long to pay for a gallon of milk and box of donuts, but for the most part, it's fast, and I don't have to watch snotty teens rub their faces or hair while they touch all the food I'm taking home to my family. I'll watch "Real Stories of the ER" during dinner, but watching how most of these employees handle my groceries makes me sick.

In fact, I would shop exclusively at Publix (literally across the street from Kroger, with a cleaner, nicer store, and slightly higher prices) IF Publix had self checkout. Grocery stores (rightfully) staff according to demand, so whether I'm there at 2pm on Saturday afternoon or 11pm on Sunday night, I always have to stand in line behind 3 ladies with full carts and checkboooks in hand.

Perhaps the original poster is one of those who never "listened well" or "followed directions" in elementary school. The self checkout is brilliantly easy to use, in my opinion. There is the occasional canned good or loaf of bread that will never scan properly, but most hiccups are user error.

@catastrophegirl - just add kittens: I use your method - which is also unfortunate for the people behind me, though I try to be quick.

It won't let me put the bag on first. It says to 'remove foreign items' or something similar. I'm at Giant, not HT, but sad to hear there are the same problems.

Giant gives me a 5 cent discount on the cloth bags, but not in self-checkout, so I go to a short cashier lane. Yes, my time is worth 20 cents.

I LOVE IT.

I generally find grocery shopping to be a stressful experience, even during off-peak times. Too many small children full of WANNNNNNNT, too many elderly people working their way slowly through the produce section, too many surly teenage clerks (and yet never enough deli clerks).

Self-checkout enables me to shop, swipe my discount card and my credit card, scan and bag my groceries, and get on with life without ever having to look at or talk to anyone if I so choose. It also slows the inevitable march of increasing prices and hopefully staves off the Grocery Store Shrink Ray for another day.

People who complain about self-checkout being too hard to use should spend a little more time being aware of their immediate surroundings. 99% of daily life's errors happen because people are too busy talking on their cellphones or thinking about work or their dog or child or something to pay attention to what's happening right in front of them.

The machines talk to you and tell you what to do, for God's sake.

I refuse to use these self check outs. These mega stores make enough profit, and now they want to outsource the check-out and bagging jobs to me!! No thanks. I would rather spend an extra minute at a human cashier line, and save someone their job.

If you're looking for frustration, the self checkouts at BJ's are in the #1 spot. They seem to have a problem with big items, like boxes of diapers. And since that is mostly what BJ's sells......

We go from the merits of a living wage to one of us hypothetically starving tonight. Of course, the union would advocate that we split the meal so both of us have food tonight, but I know, that's socialism and if we followed that advice, the next thing you know Karl Marx would be mailing us invites to his annual communist block party.

Did you take your Lithium today?

But I don't buy that they are INTENTIONALLY bad. I think it's more likely that the commercial products in this area just suck and have been oversold to the retail chains on the promise that they will allow them to cut staffing needs. The retailers jumped at this without actually demanding that the suppliers of the machines make a good product.

Those nine million people with law degrees would be better off working for a large firm because statistics show that the bigger the law firm, the higher the annual pay will be. Take NYC for example: a starting lawyer in a firm with 2-10 attorneys makes an average of $62,149/yr. In a firm with 250 or more attorneys, the average starting pay is $157,243.

source: [blog.cleveland.com]

yawn.

@Julius_Seizure: that they DESERVE every penny they make. Teachers union is rather insignificant on the grand scale of things and their existence doesn't make teachers more money than they DESERVE.

How about I finish Econ 102 and meet you in little kid land where economics is driven by what people DESERVE and you can show me how it works? In little kid land, where you live, everything is about entitlement.

What people DESERVE is meaningless!

You and I may both DESERVE to have a good meal tonight. Regardless of who deserves what if there is only enough food for one meal then one of us is going hungry.

I have a feeling that around the same time you realize that there is only enough food for one person to survive you would stop thinking about what you deserve and start either figuring out a way to get more food or a way to make sure you are not the one that goes hungery.

Also, if you're upset on the way California does things, why not run for office, organize like-minded folks, or move to a state that is more in line with your ideals?

The folks at Kroger forgot that self-check-out was supposed to be about efficiency. They decided to make it an anti-theft deterrent first. Only they forgot that few people intent on stealing will actually bother to go through self-checkout. So they put a bunch of needless stops in a system for phantom worries and squashed any efficiency they could gain.

Telling people to "get used" to an inefficient system isn't a solution. Telling Kroger to wake up and realize that their system isn't working and to go down the street and visit their competitors to see how it's done is. Telling people to "get used" to bad things means things never actually get better.

@Tiny L. Bug:

Nice pictures. I guess the point is that because of unions those kids are no longer being exploited as they were in the past.

Ummm...who do you think made your Nikes?

Unions in industrialized nations make demands for compensation that far exceeds the value that they add, as a result there are more child laborers in the world today than at any time in history. Think about it this way - if union workers in the US were paid a wage that is consistent with the value that they add and competitive on a GLOBAL scale there would be no incentive for manufacturers to incur the cost of making your Nikes in India (which has more child laborers than anywhere else in the world) and shipping them all the way to your local shoe store in the US. They could even pay the US workers more than the workers in India because they would not have to ship the things all the way from India.

With regard to child labor, unions have been very effective in preventing blue eyed blond children from being used as a cheap source of labor. Unfortunately for each blue eyed blond child removed from the factory floor in 1920 there have been 5 somewhat darker children over seas picking up the slack in 2009…. Granted, this consequence is unintended.

In practice, they're a nightmare, and are so by design.

They often are made with hypersensitive hardware, such as scales that constantly need to be cleared or output sensors that don't "see" things you just set down on the belt.

They often have deficient user-interfaces, such as not telling you up-front what to do with coupons, loyalty cards, etc. Sometimes they NEVER tell you.

My guess is that they're specifically designed for "early adopters," whose patience with poor design and lackluster technology is all but limitless. Those people all are happy to be inconvenienced by crap like that. The rest are forced into (often long) human-cashier lines.

As soon as I hear of a chain that actually makes a GOOD self-checkout, I'd be happy to use it. But I'm not going to subject myself to a horrific experience just 'cause the chain doesn't want to spend the money on good hardware and a thoroughly-human-tested user interface.

@reishka: The only problems I have with the Stop & Shop ones are 1) I can't get credit for my reusable bags there and 2) I can't cash in my deposit vouchers there (for returning my deposit bottles/cans). My options are either go through a manned lane or go through the self-checkout, then stop at customer service to get my money back for my bags and cash in my deposit vouchers.

As for teaching, if school boards, admin, teachers and the teacher unions had their way, public schools wouldn't be funded primarily by property taxes, but rather through federal and state funding. If anything, the teachers union is rather insignificant on the grand scale of things and their existence doesn't make teachers more money than they deserve.

I understand you'll be able to add more to this whole debate after you complete Econ 102 this coming semester. In the meantime, put an egg in your shoe and beat it.

@johnva:

If the system were as simple as swipe, bag, and pay maybe I wouldn't mind so much and put it in the 'pump your own gas' column. But the fact is, many barcodes don't read, and the bagging area is often too sensitive. If i have more than 3 items something ends up not working to the robot's liking.

I shop for a week's worth of supplies. Way, way too much to do it efficiently; even if nothing went wrong the customer ahead of me is under no pressure to move along.

(I also want to utilize those reusable shopping bags - but I don't want to piss off the robot)

Perhaps your time would be better served if you went to another store. Imagine the time you could have saved if you'd only used a different grocer. SuperTarget doesn't have ANY of those self-checkout things.

I can't believe that you didn't know that the bagging area was a giant scale. For the love of God and all that is Holy, do not try to hold on to your purchase AFTER you scan it.

Meijer has gone to this system, also. It means paying for 1 cashier to run around. The biggest problems are people who never use the system and don't understand how it works. There should be an entire semester of college dedicated to learning menial jobs. It would help the world function better. If everyone had to wait tables, work fast food, at a convenience store and be a cashier at a grocery store. The job isn't hard, it's just that it takes time.

@Tiny L. Bug: Since you think that prices are driven by costs, it's pretty clear that those student loans didn't pay for any economics classes...

Perhaps you shouldn't have stopped at Econ 102 - prices are only a function of supply and demand in a perfectly competitive environment. Unions prevent a perfectly competitive environment and create a price "floor" well above the equilibrium point for most goods produced or provided by union members.

If you think about this for a second it is obvious.

On a side note, Kroger uses a Fujitsu branded self checkout that seems to be proprietary; I see NCR's logo at most other stores, which is always slow and glitchy.

That is about the only way to do it.

No. Simple Economics "got us" a 40 hour week, 5 day workweek, and a livable wage for skilled workers.

Hooray for the unregulated free labor market!

Paying an artificially high "living wage" for low skill jobs like coal mining simply encourages people to stay in low skill jobs and not seek out the enhanced skills / opportunities. If they want more money, they should just acquire new skills that would justify higher pay, like these bootstrappers did:

Well, maybe no bootstrappers, technically, seeing as they can't actually afford shoes, but you get my point. And if they're not happy with their wages, they can simly go get another job, and leave the unskilled work to those who are willing to accept that low low (but SUPER FAIR!) paycheck. Like these darling little tykes:

If my hubby and I go shopping we can zip through the self-checkout with a cart full of groceries and be done in half the time it would take a regular checker. I absolutely love the self-checkout systems that we have.

@Julius_Seizure: To answer your question with logic: Because making $50 an hour provides an awesome living for you and your family and by not working hard and smart for your money, one of the other nine million people with law degrees might take your job.

You said you were a teacher and now work in a grocery store. I guess I can forgive you for not knowing how the profession of law works. Those "nine million people with law degrees" can start their own practice and make more than they would working for a large firm after a couple of years - and they would not have to work nearly as hard. Many of them do so - 90% of the law practices listed in the phonebook are made up a few attorneys who pools some office and support costs but mostly work for themselves. They make a nice living, probably avg. around $100k. So why would someone work twice as hard for a big law firm for less money? Because the partners make very high 6 figure/low 7 figure incomes - and if the person works hard enough they may become a partner. $50/hr is not chump change - but it is COMPARED to what attorneys make on average, and certainly compared to what attorneys who are partners at big law firms make...

In my own experience, Stop&Shop's are tops. Wal-Mart's can be good depending on location. Shaw's, to me, are always always always clusterfucks.

But that's me.

@Stephmo:
THAT IS THE KROGER/SMITH'S MO

My father in law went to one on the 3rd around 7am and he swore it was like it was 2am. Stocking ailes, pallets everywhere, etc.

No checkstands open and he was having issues. And the attendant told him that they just assume everyone comes to Smiths to steal...

@Julius_Seizure: Guess what? I make just as much there as I did teaching and I have no desire to teach again.

So in order to assert that I am wrong you prove my point for me by providing yourself as an example of the economic inefficiency created by unions? That is genius.

Can I have all register-trained associates to the front of the store please?

Why should I pay more for groceries to supplement someones union wage - I did the right thing by learning a skill that adds enough value to justify a "living wage" and I have the student loans to prove it.

Why on earth should we take your opinions about the unions, wages and markets seriously? Since you think that prices are driven by costs, it's pretty clear that those student loans didn't pay for any economics classes...

@matt1978: The last time I checked, the checkers at all these stores that have self-check out make the same minimum wage that other folks make.

When was the last time you checked? Check in California. A checker probably has better health insurance than you do - and makes about $45k/yr. Sure that is not a fortune in Cali - but it is WAY more than min. wage for a low skill and low stress job.

I don't get the "stuck" message often, and most of the time it clears itself (usually before it finishes announcing "Please wait for an attendant")... or maybe wherever the attendant is hiding, they've got their thumb on the "OK" button on the remote.

My biggest complaint with it is that scanning multiples of items (say, canned veggies) is really slow thanks to the required bagging compared to a normal cashier being able to flick their wrist and scan one can over and over. I tried scanning with one hand while dropping the other cans into the bag with the other, but it still takes a couple of seconds before the bagging scale tells the register to let me scan another item.

Maybe there's a secret code to enter to enable "expert mode" and turn off all the voice prompts and increase scanning speed? ;)

When doing a "cash back" option on Acme's machines, I've seen it happen or have had it happen to me more than once where the cash has gotten stuck in the machine. Not fun...

@Greasy Thumb Guzik: Since Walmart is anti-union & will instantly close a store that votes to unionize, which actually happened in Canada, let's see you back that idiotic statement up!
You can't of course!
You FAIL!

Actually it sounds to me like you made my point for me. All of the workers at the Walmart that closed would be earning money and contributng to Canada's GDP if they had not chosen to go union. Now many of them are probably a drain on Canada's GDP because they are relying on govt benefit programs rather than working. Now take your Walmart situation to the national level - unions have made it cost so much to manufacture anything in Canada that companies are moving operations overseas - just like Walmart closing non-union stores. I don't really care about Canada - keep your unions if you want - 20 years from now the only thing that anyone will be making in Canada (and the US) is stamps for mailing welfare checks to unemployed union workers.

I removed the specific store address, but it's in Indianapolis.

I really like selfcheck outs, but I always get stuck behind idiots who cant read or can read and just not comprehend how simple the instructions are. I have never had trouble at a self checkout that was caused by the system itself and have used them at walkmart, homedepot, and any other store that has them (assuming the line isnt longer than the ones with cashiers)

Im all for stores automating as much as possible and replacing as many human elements as they can without sacrificing quality of product, and speed of getting in and out.

I dont care about customer service in most stores, since rarely do I need assistance unless forced to get it (like at cash registers or getting things from secure areas). I also prefer cashiers not talk to me. I dont care how thier day is, they dont care how my day was or how my shopping experience was, so why pretend?

Of course there would be no need for them if it weren't for labor unions.

Like those unions at WalMart and Home Depot? Or are those unions so powerful that they can force non union shops to install these self checkouts too?

@Shadowfire: Watching other people use the machine is an interesting experience in what kinds of knowledge people take for granted. For instance, I watched one person who apparently didn't know that cash registers worked by reading UPC codes and that the way the box is pointing when you wave it over the machine matters.

You're so right: getting paid $50 hour is chump change. Hell, I can go work at the corner Citgo and make that much.

To answer your question with logic: Because making $50 an hour provides an awesome living for you and your family and by not working hard and smart for your money, one of the other nine million people with law degrees might take your job.

I ask again: do you think before you speak?

@ThinkerTDM: You know where we would be if it weren't for unions? China. There would be 400 people in an un-airconditioned room making stuff for pennies on the dollar. And when an injury happened, we would be replaced. In a second.

With regard to unskilled workers, you are probably correct. The thing is that we are there anyway - it is just that rather than paying pennies on the dollar to US workers manufacturers move to places like China and pay pennies on the dollar. The US workers, rather than having a job and making somthing (even if it is just pennies on the dollar) and contributing to US GDP by creating value is now unemployed and a drain on GDP. In the mean time China's GDP is growing like crazy. Like it or not we live in a global economy - we can have unions (like we do) to avoid the situation you reference - but the long term cost will be that union jobs will move overseas to places that don't allow unions. Don't believe me? Try putting in a application to work on the assembly line at a GM or Chrysler plant.... Can you believe it costs less to build a (huge heavy) car in Korea AND ship it across the world to the USA than to build the same car in the US? Have you ever sat on a plane for 14 hours to go to Korea from LA - it puts in perspective how far away Korea is. It is amazing that cars can be built there (rated at higher quality than most GM cars) and still be sold for less than the cars that are made here!

I didn't like the self-check lanes too much when our local supemarket installed them, but now I prefer them since there are fewer "full-service" cashier lanes.

One time, when I was in a hurry, I accidentally set the language to Spanish and it completely flustered me to the point where I had no idea what to do even though I had used the self-check there hundreds or times.

Now will you go away?

Got the degree, taught high school social studies for two years, was laid off because of several levy failures, and now I work at an awesome national grocery store.

Guess what? I make just as much there as I did teaching and I have no desire to teach again. Do you think before you speak?

I hate the ones at Kroger, but the ones at HEB are great... I'll use them any time I can. They're the only ones in any of the stores around here that have a bagging carousel that lets you fill up 6 bags at once. You can only have 2 bags at Kroger and Wal-Mart without just stacking stuff on top of the scale.

@Shadowman615: True as that may be, shopper theft can still amount to a resonable volume of product leaving the store on a monthly basis, stores generally are not going to go "Well, most theft is internal, so we'll just ignore external theft for now".

@Con Seannery: The architects are asked to put them in. It "balances" the aesthetic "look" of the sales floor and makes the store look more prosperous (i.e. people tend to assume that all of the check areas are actually in use at some high-traffic time of day).

@ARP: How about we cut all the senior executives pay instead? How is that any different?

For every C-level person with 7 figure compensation there are a bunch of lower level managers who are working their butts off to get into that position. As a simple example take a law firm. A law firm is made up of attorney partners/owners, attorney employees, and non-attorney employees (admin staff) An employee attorney works 50 - 60 hour weeks at a wage that is much lower than the value that they create. They are paid about $50/hr and billed out at $200+ per hour! Why would an employee attorney work so hard for so little? Because she/he sees the partners making real money and wants a shot at being a partner. If the partners compensation was limited to $100k, and the employee attorney was making $75k, the employee attorney would not really have any reason to work their butts off to make partner - not for an additional $25k... For an additional $25k it would be great to make partner, but not worth years of giving up vacations, missing time with the family etc. The whole firm structure would no longer be viable if the people at the top could no longer earn enough to motivate the people at lower levels to work hard to get into that position. People work their butts off because they think it will benefit them. We all benefit when people work harder because they add more value - this is how an partner at a big law firm or a CPA firm makes 5x as much as she/he would if they opened their own shop. So should some douche at AIG get a 7 figure paycheck for ruining the company? Nope, but sometimes the system fails at the individual level although it functions at the macro level.

I have very RARELY had any issues with self checkout. I don't care who or where (unless I have a cart of 2x4's) - I can check myself out quicker and bag quicker than 90% of any cashier. I also prefer to separate my bags how I want.

The issue is mostly when you have someone elderly who does not grasp the concept. They need to go to a human line.

Or the other day a disabled woman in a motorized scooter decided to use one. I have absolutely nothing against disabilities....but she couldn't even reach the screen. Cmon....seriously? I understand the "I can do it, I don't need your help"....but when you can't reach the screen and have to have the "assistant" do everything for you ITS TIME TO GO TO THE HUMAN LINE.

Stores: Please keep adding machines. Do not replace human. Provide equal amounts of either and put signs "55+ plus or disabled please use priority line" to stop them from slowing down the d*mn machines!!!!!!!!!

Some days though, nothing goes smoothly with the automated checkouts... Scan card, wait for cashier. Scan milk, wait for cashier. Place item in bag, wait for cashier. Swipe credit card... well you get the idea...

But after 4 years of not shopping at Walmart I was really surprised at how much of a premium I was actually paying. The biggest box of plain Cheerios is over $1 cheaper at Walmart. Almost all the items we buy on a weekly basis are cheaper at Walmart. Kroger just isn't competitive. Sad really, I would much rather support a local chain but can no longer justify it.

Some of the issues we experience are definitely user error, especially if it is someone's first time using the self-checkout. I often have to tell customers multiple times while they're checking out that the bagging area is a scale and no they can't lean on it or put their purse down on it.

With the system that my store uses, you can remove bags after scanning and bagging items. However, you cannot remove a bag while scanning another item because the computer can't subtract the weight and add the expected weight for the new item at the same time.

Our systems were upgraded a few months ago and now will ask customers if they have put their own bag in the bagging area. This has been extremely helpful, but it still doesn't help the customers that hear a beeping or whatever and don't even bother to read the screen before screaming for help.

I truly enjoy helping customers. It's nice to know that you've made someone's day a bit easier. However, sometimes we are understaffed and cannot help everyone as thoroughly as we would like. The hours that the manager can schedule are tied to sales, and during slower times of day there aren't as many cashiers available. Grocery stores have very high turnover, too, so some days I'll have anywhere from 2 to 6 no-shows. Also, normally after 9pm all we have is the grocery crew chief as acting manager. They can approve or deny things, but they also don't really know anything about running the front end.

I worked last night and we were fine until about 9:!5(we close at 10). It was just myself and another cashier, so I closed down the self-scans and just had 2 registers open. I find this to be infinitely quicker than having to run back and forth between ringing customers up and fixing the self scans too.

If you've gotten through all of my rambling, just realize that while there are many apathetic grocery store employees, there are also a lot of us that are doing the best that we can with what we are given. I hope the OP has better luck with self-scans the next time he shops.

The reasoning for the small bagging area is so people won't use them for big orders. Uscan is like 4 express lanes, they aren't meant to be used for full cart loads of groceries.

Trust me, it is very frustrating to run Uscan, especially when few check lanes are open. I can't tell you how many nights I have been the only cashier after 7 PM on a Saturday.

We changed our U-scan software based on customer complaints and what customers wanted. We added a skip bagging option which people will click and still put their items in the bagging area. We intended to make produce PLU codes easier by letting you click pretty pictures and using the ABCs to find your produce.. but somehow that made it harder.

If there are long lines at Kroger and you don't want to go through U-scan then please don't. Just wait patiently in line.

@Shadowman615: Yeah, I learned with the HD self scanner a) pick up item with right hand, b) scan, c) transfer to left hand, d) place in bottom of bag and push down on scale, e) repeat.

@katstermonster:

Can they legally subject you to an audit after you've already paid for your items? Can't you just say "no thank you" to the audit and just keep on going?

Thing is, a lot of people don't know how to use the stations properly. They don't know to leave your items on the station until everything's paid for (they have scales built in so they know people aren't trying to stick in additional items), or the customer has coupons the clerk needs to scan themselves (which should hardly be a complaint for anyone coming to this site).

The only problem I ever had is you would have people going through with whole cartloads of orders. My Kroger finally rectified this problem by placing large signs where people would line up saying 25 items or less. Seems to work well enough.

The only place I hate to use the self-checkout is my local Walmart. Dear god it's frustrating. They have 8 of them, 4 on either side of the checkout area, but heaven help them if any more than 2 are open at a time on both sides; you're lucky if you find 3 open. Even then you STILL have jackasses going through with full carts of stuff, when all I want is my damn pint of Ben & Jerry's.

Not to sound harsh, but at some point you have to get over it. This is the way the world is going, and in the end it may well save you money if it means they can make things more efficient. MY biggest gripe is that they are NOT currently much more efficient.

For instance: the barcode of the item hasn't been entered into the automated system so it won't scan, you can't find the produce item you're weighing because it isn't in the system or the name is different from the tag in produce, or the conveyer or scale under the bags calls foul so you have to redo the scan and placement over and over or call for an employee.

Also, if you scan your card before the automated jackass voice tells you to the system then tells you to scan your card anyway...then figures out it has been scanned.

I always first try to find a checkout person who looks reasonably pleasant, intelligent and healthy with a tolerable line. Last resort is automated checkout.

@citking: No. Simple Economics "got us" a 40 hour week, 5 day workweek, and a livable wage for skilled workers. For example, lets say you are a computer programmer and you "create" $60/hr in value and your employer pays you $8/hr. Since programmers only cost employers $8/hr employers would hire more programmers because the cost of projects involving programmers would be lower so employers would undertake more projects. At some point an employer would want to hire a programmer and would not be able to find one - so the employer would increase the wage to $8.50, or perhaps lower the number of hours in the work week - from here you can see how the wage would rapidly increase up to a point where it is relatively close to the value added by the programmers. Same thing goes with work hours, benefits etc. The wage/benefits is directly related to the value added by the skill and the number of individuals in the market (both long term and short term) who are able to fill the position. Unions prevent this equasion from functioning properly (as do minimum wages). They also hurt the union members - if a California grocery checker made $7/hr rather than $45k /yr your checker may go to school and learn how to bring more to the table to get paid more - that would benefit everyone - and you would not have to pay $4/lb for potatos to supplement the checkers artificially high wage.

@TheWillow: How exactly are people with no skills supposed to pay for training to make more money when they shouldn't be, by your assessment, making enough money to even live off of?

Well, anyone can get student loans - like I did. Some people can get grants or other benefits that they don't have to pay back. Not all "value adding" jobs require attending a university for several years - a skilled auto mechanic can make a great living - as can a welder - heck in some states a person only needs an AA degree to become a RN and make close to 6 figures after a couple years of working.

Same went for the Walmart Neighborhood Market near campus, only they'd even shut down the self check outs after a certain hour.

the clerk was busy running (literally) from customer to customer helping clear their problems as well.

and absolute apathy on the part of the store staff.

Wait, which one is it?

@greggen: Unions got us a 40 hour, 5 day workweek, and a livable wage for skilled jobs

No. Simple Economics "got us" a 40 hour week, 5 day workweek, and a livable wage for skilled workers. For example, lets say you are a computer programmer and you "create" $60/hr in value and your employer pays you $8/hr. Since programmers only cost employers $8/hr employers would hire more programmers because the cost of projects involving programmers would be lower so employers would undertake more projects. At some point an employer would want to hire a programmer and would not be able to find one - so the employer would increase the wage to $8.50, or perhaps lower the number of hours in the work week - from here you can see how the wage would rapidly increase up to a point where it is relatively close to the value added by the programmers. Same thing goes with work hours, benefits etc. The wage/benefits is directly related to the value added by the skill and the number of individuals in the market (both long term and short term) who are able to fill the position. Unions prevent this equasion from functioning properly (as do minimum wages). They also hurt the union members - if a California grocery checker made $7/hr rather than $45k /yr your checker may go to school and learn how to bring more to the table to get paid more - that would benefit everyone - and you would not have to pay $4/lb for potatos to supplement the checkers artificially high wage.

The only self-checkout experience i liked was at Meijer. They had the big ones that actually had a conveyor belt so you could do a full cart. My husband scanned and I bagged which worked out fine. But otherwise I hate them. And I'm philosophically opposed because hey, if the store is saving money by making me do this, I want to see some of those savings. I'd use it more if I got a discount just for using it.

(You just spent more time reading comments than most people do in self-checkout. :-p)

Giant Eagle's is pretty much awesome. Their lookup can find you a jalapeno if you look up j-a-l-a, p-e-p-p, or c-h-i-l - because it will either pull up the jalapeno, a whole slew of peppers or chilies. OR you can just type in the PLU-code. How wacky - a system that actually is customer-focused and assumes that people may not call a produce item by one name.

@cc82: I have definitely had my items double-bagged in plastic and cloth. I did not find it funny. (Disclaimer--I found it hilarious, but in a "what is this world coming to?" sort of way) I phoned the manager of the store though, and got a coupon for $5 off my next purchase(nice) and they must have had some retraining (nicer).

My current beef with using cloth bags is this: because they are stronger than plastic bags, the checkers labor under the delusion that they must be filled to the tippy-top. So I wind up with three bags that are so overloaded they cannot be easily lifted, and four completely empty bags. Yes, I know that you can fit a gallon of milk and all my yogurt and the canned beans in one bag, but please don't.

@CaptainSemantics:

I hate the HD ones, but Mr. Sam who stops by HD about once a day uses them regularly without any problems.

If you want something to register with management you have to tell them directly.

Like I said, Kroger's system seems entirely built on the assumption that I'm using self-check-out to steal food.

I gotta hate on Kroger's for how the system whines when I set my purse on top of the scanner to fish out my credit card before I check out. "PLEASE REMOVE ALL OBJECTS OR ITEMS FROM THE SCANNER!!!!!!" Whatever. I never had that problem at Meijer. I'd still go there instead if it weren't too far away. Meijer also has a button that lets you take a bag off the devil-scale and put it in your cart before you get done shopping. At kroger you have to flag down an attendant. Annoying.

As for Walmart or Kroger, I never use either one so I don't know.

Okay, so the self-checkout lanes suck because they have to be designed so that even a moron can do it. However, we don't want to pay a living wage to the people who know how to run a checkout properly and efficiently, because that skill isn't worth anything...but of course your skills, whatever they are, are worth much more.
Sarcasm mode on--->You know what, I think air fares are to high. I am tired of airline pilots getting paid so much, just because they are (usually) unionized. The planes have auto-pilot anyway, so what "skills" do they really need. If they wanted to make so much money, they should have taken the trouble to learn something really useful. Of course, I never fly<---sarcasm mode off.
I am sick to death of people claiming their skills are somehow worth more because they spent 4 to 12 years sitting on their butt in a classroom learning stuff that is totally useless, when they actually reach the real world, as opposed to someone who breaks their back working 8 hours a day on their feet, and taking crap from people like you.

Raising pay for unskilled labor won't raise college enrollment rates.
There'd be no incentive to study hard for those skill if anyone could just get the same (or better) pay staying in their unskilled mindless job.

As one who works on the other side, the self-scans at our store generally have problems with people who are using for the first time and don't know how to follow directions. Scan, bag, scan, bag. If you pick your things up off the scale, great, but don't put them back.

I don't know, there are instructions on the machine, and it tells you what you've done wrong if you make it mad... but the number of people screaming about the "stupid pieces of shit" astounds me sometimes.

To my knowledge the latest software revision - the one with the blue welcome screen was rolled out company wide. So there should not be any more using the old revision with the red welcome screen.

@PunditGuy: The self check out stands can be found in non-union stores. Non-union stores have to pay checkers a wage that is above the value added by the checker to prevent the checkers from forming a union. The checkers are paid a premium for giving up the right to form a union rather than for any value that they add. Don't believe me - read any econ101 textbook.

Now excuse me, I have to go to [redacted] to get some more [redacted].

Oh, and Home Depot does the exact same thing. Except there were no non-self checkout lines open this morning. Fortunately I have ran this maze before. In case your wondering, it's the store in [redacted].

@acknight: The self check out stands can be found in non-union stores. Non-union stores have to pay checkers a wage that is above the value added by the checker to prevent the checkers from forming a union. The checkers are paid a premium for giving up the right to form a union rather than for any value that they add. Don't believe me - read any econ101 textbook.

@gttim: That is one moronic statement. Oh, please try to back that one up. I love it when wingnuts start trying to prove idiotic beliefs.

The self check out stands can be found in non-union stores. Non-union stores have to pay checkers a wage that is above the value added by the checker to prevent the checkers from forming a union. The checkers are paid a premium for giving up the right to form a union rather than for any value that they add. Don't believe me - read any econ101 textbook.

And to further Radi0logy's comment, my bank actually forces me to use the ATM when I want to withdraw money. I *could* do it at the teller, but it's all kinds of hassle.

@pupu: You know where we would be if it weren't for unions? China. There would be 400 people in an un-airconditioned room making stuff for pennies on the dollar. And when an injury happened, we would be replaced. In a second.

@Radi0logy: ...and yet, nobody notices.
Hmm, they're getting paid to be there, and you're losing time by waiting. Who's the real "winner" here?

But yeah, people are impatient.
No matter how fast you are if there is a person behind you they'll still hate. :-\

"The measure of a man's character is what he would do if he knew he never would be found out."
- Baron Thomas Babington Macauley, English historian and statesman (1800-1859)

@gttim: That's the one thing I haven't been able to get to work at self-checkout. (It's been a while since I've tried produce though so I don't know if that's gotten better.)

I make it a habit to not use self-checkout, atm's, movie rental kiosks and all the other "conveniences" that eliminate jobs and export the work onto the customer.

BUT! One of the other Kroger stores on my way to work must have difficulty with their clocks because they are NEVER open at 6:00 am (opening time), or if they are, they have no checkout lanes open and NO self-check lanes either.

They always act surprised that I would actually want to buy something. I finally just got fed up and will never return to that Kroger again.

@psikic: Go back next sunday with a few friends and load up on steaks and cheese. After you wait for a while, abandon your carts. A few hundred dollars in lost produce might get their attention. Or if your not feeling passive agressive you could try complaining.

And seriously, we'd ALL be at minimum wage if it wasn't for unions. When you work 8 hours and barely have enough for a tank of gas, food, meds, bills, etc. that's sad.

Rather than berate unions, berate the republicans who keep furthering their own interests at the expense of the working class.

As for those who say "Well, the rich shouldn't have to pay the consequences for those who aren't rich" I say this: Show me a rich person, and I'll show you a person who became that way by exploiting, mistreating, or abusing people with less economic means.

Funny story: my former roommate was getting a jalapeno one time and something was being screwy so she called for assistance. The clerk proceeded to look in the "O-P" section of the produce thingie. Cringe. I mean...H, A, virtually anything else would have been an understandable mistake. But he thought jalapeno started with an O.

They have both the self-checkout "stalls" like the kroger ones and they also have self-checkouts that are a full length belt like a regular cashier so when you scan your item and send it down the belt there is a laser that identifies the item. They are much faster than the stall versions. It also helps that there are 30 or so checkout lanes at my local Giant Eagle, its about the size of a super-walmart.

Also, I don't know about the OP but Sunday nights are usually one of the busiest nights at the Grocery store near me. If they closed all of the lanes it would be a disaster.

Now, you want a self-checkout system that will make you pull your hair out: Ikea. It's fun to watch people try to scan their large furniture pieces in the self-checkout lane with that gun attached to a small cord, but not when you're in line. Then you have the person who bought 75 little items and didn't see the multiple signs telling them that there are no plastic bags to put your crap in. They either complain that they have to buy the reusable bag or try to carry everything out by hand. We just went yesterday, and once we got to the machine, the scanners were barely working. I had to move the barcode across the scanner about 10 to 15 times on each item for it to scan.

Wal-Mart and Home Depot use the same interface/scanners for their self checkout lanes, and every time we're at HD, I want to cry.

@pupu: How about we cut all the senior executives pay instead? How is that any different?

They're overpaid as well and when they f*ck up company, they just go to the next company. So, we reward poor behavior by paying these people so much to mess up. And C-levels actually impact our economy on a macro level just as much, if not more than your hated unions.

Go check if Hannity is on.

Now, if only the one near my house would figure out a way to let me get city trash bags (pay as you throw system) without having to wait in a regular register line... I love that they push all this self-processing but then the one item nearly every resident of the city needs? Gotta ask someone for that.

Of course, I have never seen a worse system than TESCO over here in the UK. Their U-Scans are completely useless. My BF and I have had so many issues when buying things there. I would usually rather shop at M&S anyhow, but sometimes they aren't open.

Dumb criminals boasting about their crimes online FTL.

@Gmork: So when I scan something and put it in a bag, but the machine says that I haven't, it's my fault? Or the the machine that gets caught on the endless loop to take things in and out of the bagging area is my fault as well?

That's the part of self-checkout where I get annoyed. I understand they're trying to prevent theft by detecting what's been scanned v. what's been bagged, but it works horribly. Either add more security to monitor or add more self-checkout attendents.

Kroger's is just lame. And the most hands-on supervised. I have to have a person start my transaction half the time because the time between the person's last transaction and mine seems too short to the machine (a security check of sorts I was told - I'm not sure what that check is, but I let it go).

Other issues:

- Too small of an area for your items to be weighed.
- Items that are too small lead to machine freak outs and cause a need for an attendant to come over - basically, anything that weighs less than 4 ounces. So if it can't pick up the weight of razor blades, tuna envelopes, fresh herb bundles, a small bunch of chilies, or any number of things that you didn't buy a metric ton of, you need an attendant.
- If you take your bag away too fast which seems to be in less than an hour, the attendant has to come over and push a button.
- The vegetable look-up is horrendous.
- If a bar-code has the slightest hint of any bend in it, it will not scan. So best of luck on any of their meat products, cheese products, or even that crazy container of berries you got! The attendant will come over and manually enter your bar code because you can't really be trusted.

Really, don't be so fast to blame the OP or imply that he's dumb. The person that bought the systems for Kroger must have been super paranoid about people stealing food by going through the self-checkout and only cared about features that could prevent theft. They didn't care about anything that could possibly benefit the customer. If they're changing them in some markets, it means that someone got smart.

Also, as a sidenote, PLEASE don't let your little children run the U-Scans, everyone - even though it's fun for your kid, it slows down the line.

Of course there would be no need for them if it weren't for labor unions.

That is one moronic statement. Oh, please try to back that one up. I love it when wingnuts start trying to prove idiotic beliefs.

I sure hope my problems weren't user error, I work with technology for a living and am generally gung-ho on using tech to make life easier.

Their system is NOT user friendly. One of my big frustrations was the fact that it locked up - requiring the clerk to come and enter a code to clear it up - twice.

It just stopped letting us do anything at all. And we were not the only self check having problems, the clerk was jumping from station to station.

What's really inexcusable in my opinion is: 1) They obviously don't care about the customer experience if they refuse to open additional check line when they're overflowing and 2) the clerk said no manager was available to help me.

I worked retail in high school and there was always a supervisor or manager available.

Give me a sane U-Check solution and I'll consider using it. But if I don't want to check myself out I still reserve the right to not wait 45 minutes while 1 check lane out of 10 or 12 is open.

PS - if the U-Check is saving them money how about passing a discount along to its users since we're replacing a cashier? And we wonder why the unemployment rate is so high?

However, every person I know has had a problem with the "Oh it's a scale" part of the self-checkout lines when they first started using them. Making that part a little clearer might make it easier to figure out, especially if you're not too great with electronics.

This happened to my husband yesterday norning at Fry's (owned by Kroger). At 8 am they had NO human lanes open, only self-checkout. And to boot, the scales rung up everyone's stuff wrong. You should see his receipt: for four items it is almost a foot long, there are so many voids on there from it having to be cleared of items. He said everyone was having problems and the poor clerk was very frazzled.

If I'm just getting milk, that's fine, but otherwise, nope. It does sound like some stores have really good self-scans, but unfortunately many of them don't.

That's certainly something to be proud of.

@matt1978: Regardless, they should offer a discount for using the self check lanes since I am now having to do the work that usually requires 1-2 employees and other customers are still getting that service for free.

Kroger/Smith's has the worst self check system as well. And as was rudely pointed out to me at one loction, on the floor in worn and dirty signage some are restricted to 10 items or less and won't let you ring more than that.

Other times, however, we will use the same station, and he will do the exact same things I just did successfully, only to have the screen freeze or the scale screw up or the price ring up wrong.

Research has shown that most theft occurs from the employees, not from people scamming the self-checkout lines. The baggage scales are really a measly, buggy attempt at combating the wrong problem. Kind of like the TSA worrying about your shampoo at the airport.

Kroger has the best self-checkouts in my area. Their machines are smart enough to ask you "Are you using your own bags?" if you set your bags on the scale/bagging area before you start scanning.

I agree, those things are horrible. I'm certainly no luddite, quite the opposite in fact, but I've never met a self-checkout machine which wasn't a complete exercise in frustration. If you're buying any produce (usually the majority of my cart/basket) tack on 30 seconds per item as that's how long it takes to scroll through screen after screen looking for the right kind of onions. If you're buying anything oversized, be prepared for it to not fit on the scale and having to wait for the clerk to come over and let you proceed. If there's anyone in line ahead of you, be prepared to wait 4x as long as you would in a normal line as no one can get the stupid things to work properly. Hear that self checkout machine designers? If every user of your product is having the same problem, you've done something wrong. At least the products are cheaper as there are less employees to pay, right? HAHAHAHAH no. There should really be maybe one machine per store, and it should have an 8 item limit, as if you're only buying one thing and paying with plastic, you might have a decent experience (it'll still slower and less convenient than a clerk).

My local wally world has the self check outs, and I love them. I would rather go through the self checkouts and bag my own groceries than get home and find out that some moron cashier has put a canteloupe on my loaf of bread (yes, I've had it happen). They even have an option to skip bagging an item if you have a large item. I usually do that with things like cases of drinks or large packages of toilet paper.

The only negative thing I have about the self checks at walmart is that the volume seems to be set to "scream at the customer" because I swear that thing gets louder the longer your transaction is.

The grocery store ones I use - Meijer and Jewel, mainly - are fine, no real trouble.

Of course there would be no need for them if it weren't for labor unions.

If I can find a self-checkout at a non-union store, will you retract this ridiculous screed? I think not.

As for the "it's not my job, I don't work there" argument, well, the people who do work there are generally apathetic and bad at their job. And it WILL be reflected in prices if they have to hire more cashiers. I'd rather deal with a few learning pains and have a speedier checkout experience. To that end, I also wish stores would have self-checkout exclusively for people who know what they're doing.

However, the weighing thing makes no sense to me. How that prevents someone from simply not scanning some items and walking out with them is beyond comprehension.

I'm able to use one of the U-Scans to get out of the Kroger close to my house in record time, every time. Occasionally there are problems with the system not finding an item, or if one of the weighed items slips off the scale, but, otherwise, there are no problems. I am sure that the poster saw several people go through the U-Scan much faster than they were able to.

Also, one employee is able to man 6 checkout stations, and that allows more people to check out faster, even if the employee does need to come over and occasionally clear something from the system. If that employee was manning a single register, then the lines would have both been backed-up.

Unfamiliarity with the system doesn't mean that it's a bad system, just that you don't know how to correctly use it. If you have a problem with the staffing levels at the store, that's a different matter, and should be handled by the store manager, or the floor supervisor. But, please, don't say that U-Scan is "horribly designed" and should be destroyed just because you don't know how to use it.

I like the ones at the Shop and Stops, since you don't need to immediately bag them: there's a bagging area at the end that you can deal with after scanning (though you also need to watch out for items backing up the bagging area).

Slow and steady wins the race.

But I think it's important to walk: that should register with management that they have a serious problem that needs to be addressed. Unfortunately Kroger management seems to have more dullards than Wal-Mart does. Wal-Mart management has gotten the message, and their self-checkout has improved by magnitudes since they first introduced it. I still see changes there to improve the process.

@gttim:

AGREED! Anyone whose ever used a touch screen, i.e. ATM, should have no problem with these. They have their flaws, but so do cashiers.

With a few exceptions, that is. For example, the touch screen is off sometimes, so in order to push a button you have to actually push a half-inch below it.

They're also really finicky with the weight thing in the bagging area. For example, if you want to use a reusable bag, well ... I still haven't figured that one out, come to think of it.

The best markets are the ones that enforce a 15 item or less policy. I've seen the machines backed up because of asshats that take an entire overflowing shopping cart of groceries to those machines and the baggage area isn't even big enough to accommodate it all.

Jacob never states what parts of the interface he didn't like, just said it was poorly designed. If he explains what is wrong, we can figure out if it is an old system, a broken system or if he was just confused by some of those "hidden" design constraints.

I can also remember that when the people started to flow into the aisles, the front end manager would usually open up a couple of the registers. usually we would start to close lanes around 9:00 because after 11:30 there were just 2 cashiers for the night shift.

Quit posting crap from whining consumers that are just trying to vent because they can't figure it out. Read the instructions, follow the prompts, it will work smoothly. Go into it with assumptions based on how you expect it to work and don't adapt to the situation and you'll just frustrate yourself.

Don't blame Kroger.

For bagged goods like bread or chips, squeeze the bag slightly to fill out the bar code, once again giving the scanner a clean shot at it.

Take it slow, the system does not like folks just swiping stuff across the scanner. Slow and steady motions assure a clean scan and fast checkout.

Use an insulated bag to carry your goods in, this helps extend your shopping time. Also leave frozen or perishable goods as your last stop in your shopping trip too.

If you have booze, you'll have to get someone to check you're ID. If you don't wait for the scales under the bags to register you've placed the item in them and hit skip bagging, you're gonna have to have someone come and over-ride so you can pay. A count of 3 or until the finish and pay stops flashing, on the self checkouts @ wal-mart, is all you need to wait to pull items off the scale.

I DON'T go to the self-checkouts when I have a lot in the cart though, because there's only so much space on the bagging scale.

I guess I just see the whole process as using common sense.

You know, I was fully prepared to hate these things, but I've turned out to rather enjoy them, and they haven't caused me any problems yet. (At Sobey's, in Canada.)

If you've never used a computer you should be banned from using the self checkout lanes. If you need someone to stand next to you and help you scan every item you're sort of missing the point of "self checkout".

I was on-board until that statement.
Seems like the first time the poster has ever used one of these.

1, scan your kroger card. Wait for it to welcome you.
2, scan item, put in bag. repeat.
3, look for PLU code for veggies, put on scale, enter PLU, hit done and bag.
4, press the method of payment and then slide card/put in cash. print receipt AND DONE. Leave. Go home.

I have no idea why this is so hard for people. The kroger machines are the best I've seen in the area. You can even adjust the volume/mute if you are tired of hearing the computer's voice. I've got this so streamlined that it takes me less than a minute to check out. If you really struggle this much with a scanner they should just go the regular lines anyways or to customer service.

I find the machines Safeway and A&P to be fairly easy to use. The Albertsons machines tended to be oversensitive when I would frequent them, although that's a few years ago now.

I prefer the self checkout because I can usually get out much more quickly. And shhhh don't tell anybody but sometimes I buy organic produce and tell the computer it is the regular stuff.

Even S&S's regular self-scans don't seem to be that bad.

Plus, all the Krogers near me always have lanes open in addition to self-checkout, whereas Home Depot shut them all down.

Those self check out things are very frustrating. Of course there would be no need for them if it weren't for labor unions. Here's an idea - pay check out clerks what they are worth - not the inflated wages set by unions. If the clerks don't think the pay is sufficient they should learn skills that will justify higher pay based on value added. Low skill jobs should be used to offset the cost of getting the training needed to earn a living wage. Paying an artificially high "living wage" for low skill jobs encourages people to stay in low skill jobs and not seek out the enhanced skills / opportunities that would benefit them, their families, our economy. Why should I pay more for groceries to supplement someones union wage - I did the right thing by learning a skill that adds enough value to justify a "living wage" and I have the student loans to prove it.

I hate those things. 60% of the time something goes awry and requires assistance, slowing down the checkout. I also hate the idea that the supermarket is outsourcing checkout to me, the customer.