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narf
July 5, 2009 4:13 PM
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It'll be bigger news when they end up removing the safety belts too ... if we can get an extra 100 people in, why not 300? They'll be so cramped that there's no risk of anyone falling over!

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nycaviation
July 6, 2009 5:28 PM
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@narf: A few years ago, NY Times ran an illustration of what stand-up \"seats\" might look like. Hannibal Lector's gurney comes to mind... [nycaviation.com]

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karlsl
July 5, 2009 4:29 PM
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I think this is ridiculous. Airplane is totally different than the bus. the plane will encounter turbulence during flight and the plane will suddenly go up and down. this is why seatbelt is very important during flight. people standing in the walkway during turbulent will likely to injure themselves. Not only that, by having people standing in the walkway all the time will prevent the stewardesses from servicing the passengers in need or bring them food and drinks. I see potential lawsuits against airlines if passengers are hurt during flight. This is a very bad idea.

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calquist
July 6, 2009 2:24 PM
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@karlsl: Have you ever ridden a bus? I have had plenty of smoother plane rides than bus rides.

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Renaldo
July 6, 2009 3:45 AM
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@karlsl: This is a Chinese airline. Lawsuit? Typical westerner thinking. Chinese citizens have no right to file a lawsuit.

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jamar0303
July 6, 2009 8:01 AM
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@Renaldo: Believe it or not, the \"Anonymous\" of China has the ability to kick up quite a storm in real life if even one of them gets pissed off.

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a5un
July 5, 2009 5:33 PM
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@karlsl: If you read the article, I think it mentions that there will be no food and drink served...

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italianscallion33
July 5, 2009 7:42 PM
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@a5un: If YOU read the article, they didn't say that no food or drink would be served to anyone, just not to the standing passengers. At least, that's what it sounds like given the sentence structure.

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Shoelace
July 5, 2009 7:38 PM
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@a5un: More room on the plane for passengers without food and drinks on board. Next: Mandatory enemas for all passengers, pre-flight.

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rpm773
July 5, 2009 4:31 PM
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Edited from the article: \"Zhang Dejiang and the president of Spring Airlines had recently toured a Beijing sardine packing plant together, as part of a program to explore innovative ideas to make the airline operate more efficiently.\"

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Megladon
July 5, 2009 4:33 PM
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Reminds me of a joke we had when i worked in china. How many chinese can fit on the bus? Answer: 1 more


No matter how many are on, answer stays the same.

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2 replies
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Scoobatz
July 6, 2009 8:02 PM
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@Megladon: I'm not sure what's funnier -- the joke, or your need to explain the punch line to us.

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Joseph Beck
July 5, 2009 4:54 PM
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If they can make standup roller coasters surely they can make safe standup accomodations on a plane.


On the roller coaster you are standing with a bicycle-style seat between your legs and a padded steel harness pulled down over your shoulders.

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3 replies
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Blueskylaw
July 5, 2009 7:30 PM
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@Joseph Beck:


The problem with that is the roller-coaster safety equipment is probably bulkier than an average passenger.

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b.k.
July 5, 2009 7:23 PM
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@Joseph Beck: Are the flights only 90 seconds long? Because if that's the case, I'm all for it.

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SpruceStreetPhil - in a new Pine flavor
July 6, 2009 3:00 AM
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@b.k.: Welcome to Delta Flight 348 from JFK International to Newark International. Our flight time today will be 2 minutes 23 seconds.

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Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!)
July 5, 2009 4:58 PM
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Steerage: Now available on airplanes!

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2 replies
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doctor_cos wants you to remain calm
July 5, 2009 5:47 PM
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@Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!): Actually, I think it's been \"steerage\" for a while now.
With the TSA acting like the Gestapo (but it may be getting better)...
Why fly?

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I Love New Jersey
July 5, 2009 5:09 PM
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Given the Chinese government's stance on safety, this will no doubt be approved after the right palms are greased.

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humphrmi
July 5, 2009 5:20 PM
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I knew that our friendly European competitor to Boeing would do anything to beat them on sales, but I can't believe that Airbus is selling out on safety in order to sell a few more airplanes to the Chinese government.

Ask passengers who have survived a sudden ~5,000 foot drop in altitude during turbulence how safe it is to stand in the plane.

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7 replies
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Mecharine
July 6, 2009 7:14 PM
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@humphrmi: Boeing would do the same if China asked them. Companies will bend over backwards to get some Chinese dollar bills.

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Shoelace
July 5, 2009 7:40 PM
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@humphrmi: Airbus is already in trouble x 2.

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Garbanzo
July 5, 2009 6:26 PM
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@humphrmi: Do you have any source for your ~5,000 foot drop figure, or are you just making up numbers? That seems like an extraordinary distance for an airplane to fall. All the accounts I've ever read about such incidents describe people shooting up, banging against the ceiling, and dropping back down. I've never heard a single account of people being pinned against the ceiling for more than 18 seconds--the length of time it would take an airplane to fall 5000 feet *in a vacuum*. If an airplane really fell 5000 feet I'd expect people to be pinned to the ceiling for more than a minute. The accounts I've found of airplanes dropping upon hitting sudden turbulance are usually talking about drops of a few tens of meters, when they even bother to mention a figure.

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Coles_Law
July 5, 2009 9:40 PM
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@Garbanzo: To be fair, a downdraft could cause a faster-than-freefall descent. And yes, there's about 1 too many zeros in the original post, but that doesn't change the fact that sudden drop=bad news for standing passengers.

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Garbanzo
July 6, 2009 2:00 AM
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@Coles_Law: Actually, my physics was completely bogus. I'm surprised that no one called me on it. You're correct, it would require a downdraft accelerating the plane at more than 1g to cause people to hit the ceiling. That would be unlikely to be sustained for long at all, even in the plane did drop 5000 ft in total. I agree: there's one too many zeros, and a sudden drop is bad news for unrestrained passengers, standing or sitting.

And I really should consider implementing a rule against posting before breakfast.

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Garbanzo
July 6, 2009 2:03 AM
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@Trai_Dep: I picked a mosquito that was near death from the Advantage off of my cat's fur. Does that count?

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Ayleron
July 5, 2009 6:18 PM
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@humphrmi: Are you for real??? Airbus has been studying that option, it wasn't mentioned in which context. They might have studied that for the case where passenger might be standing around a bar in the plane or something. Anyway this thing wouldn't fly anywhere other than China... There is a reason airplanes seats are manufactured to withstand 100s of Gs, the aerospace industry hasn't reached 100% safety yet...

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Robert Synnott
July 6, 2009 11:30 PM
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@Ayleron: Particularly likely as Airbus sell planes with bars on them; Virgin wants fancy A380s.

Though even standing on a plane is surely still far, far safer than driving a car, going by the numbers?

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subtlefrog
July 5, 2009 5:25 PM
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I'm envisioning sadness when one tries to get past all the people standing in the aisle to get to the bathroom. Spring Airlines: We don't make you pay to use the restroom - we just make damn sure you can't get there!

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floraposte
July 5, 2009 5:32 PM
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Airbus has actually firmly denied that they were investigating standing passengers, and they made the New York Times issue a retraction back in 2006. Wonder if people are drawing on the uncorrected story or if the company was denying a true thing? This certainly wasn't the model that they were even rumored to be exploring, though. And while Spring Air does fly Airbuses, it would have to get them completely reconfigured for this, which isn't cheap.

In short, things aren't adding up, and I'm wondering where the lack of cohesion comes.

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sdancer
July 6, 2009 8:53 AM
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@floraposte: Maybe Airbus denied it, but I distinctly remember that some years back, someone was designing retention mechanisms for standing passengers.

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jamar0303
July 6, 2009 8:08 AM
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@floraposte: Well, certainly not from Spring Air- I watched a documentary about them on Chinese TV once and they're gearing up to be the Chinese version of Ryanair. Shanghai Airlines is much more preferable for domestic flights; if you're really picky, JAL has connections to most major Chinese cities from Narita.

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catnapped
July 5, 2009 5:44 PM
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I assume no bathroom privileges for the SRO crowd either, correct?

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2 replies
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Trai_Dep
July 5, 2009 6:04 PM
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@catnapped: You underestimate the airline industry's ability to generate new surcharges.

$80: restroom fee
$50: plastic bottle fee (shared)
$30: unpleasantly over-saturated sponge hurled at your swollen groin fee (shared)

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subtlefrog
July 5, 2009 8:49 PM
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@Trai_Dep: Meh, if it's anything like some public buses I've been on, there are, um, bathroom privileges, alright.

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Jon R.
July 5, 2009 5:50 PM
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I think it's a great idea, if the prices are truly low. First, it would have more appeal if you could check at least one bag. Unless you are taking a day trip, you need some clothing, etc. with you.

There are a lot of routes where people would take a commuter-style plane. For example, there are lot of cities that are within an hour's flying time that I would visit for the day if the transportation cost were nominal.

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H3ion
July 5, 2009 5:54 PM
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Why not get rid of all of the seats and just stack people in like cordwood? I'm sure they could triple the plane's capacity and if they pack them in tight enough, there will be little movement, even during turbulence.

P.S. This is not a serious suggestion but I bet it's occurred to the airlines.

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Trai_Dep
July 5, 2009 5:59 PM
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Ha ha ha, China, and your carefully thought plans.
Wait until your brilliant idea crashes on the shores of America, where 40% of its population turns out to be wider than they are tall.
Bwah ha. Ha ha ha ha. Ha.

America: eat another deep-fried Carl's Junior burger. For freedom!

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3 replies
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Segador
July 5, 2009 8:26 PM
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@Trai_Dep: Another apparently great Chinese idea: naming their airline Chinasss. (if that's a real photo) The extra \"s\" is for \"standing.\"

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jamar0303
July 6, 2009 8:10 AM
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@Segador: Photo's real, all right. I've seen their advertising while in China. Personally I wouldn't touch them because they're gearing up to be the Chinese version of RyanAir (but worse, it seems) but lots of people do because they're so darn cheap.

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Clobberella
July 5, 2009 7:08 PM
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@Trai_Dep: Hey, Carl's Jr. doesn't deep fry their burgers. Just their zucchini. :)

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IfThenElvis
July 5, 2009 6:26 PM
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Standing Room Only image:
[i42.tinypic.com]

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rte148
July 5, 2009 6:38 PM
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will there still be room for an open brazier for cooking like Uzbekistan Airways?

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P_Smith
July 5, 2009 6:40 PM
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What a surprise, coming from a country that exported food tainted with melamine, toys painted with lead.


This is also the country which organizes violence (police and civilian thugs) against farmers to make them vacate their land, which executes convicted prisoners on spec for transplant tourism (foreigners buying human organs without the \"donor's\" consent), and allows mine operators to kill 3,000-4,000 people a year with no compensation.


No, I'm not surprised at all to hear this.

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rubyfrog
July 5, 2009 6:49 PM
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I wonder how the food and drink service cart will make its way through the aisle with a bunch of people standing in the way?

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weave
July 5, 2009 7:02 PM
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I've seen pictures of trains in Asia where people are riding on the roof of them. So if that's good enough for trains, why not planes too?

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2 replies
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b.k.
July 5, 2009 7:28 PM
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@weave: Goggles! Free goggles for roof riders!

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Trai_Dep
July 5, 2009 8:18 PM
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@b.k.: Free?!
We are talking about the airline industry, right?

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italianscallion33
July 5, 2009 7:39 PM
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So what if the plane crashes and the aisles are all clogged up with extra people and the plane needs to be evacuated?

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Shoelace
July 5, 2009 7:45 PM
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Where are the barstools going to appear from, and what will the seatbelts be attached to?

Ever been to a McDonald's where a 'life-size' plastic Ronald is bolted (through groin) to a plastic bench so kids can sit next to him and say hi? For some reason, this article reminded me of this.

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theblackdog
July 6, 2009 3:47 PM
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@Shoelace: You mean the Ronald where every other college student has to take a picture with their head in his lap?

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the lesser of two weevils
July 6, 2009 12:38 AM
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I looked at the link and then the thumbnail and thought the airline's name was cheap-ass.

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jamar0303
July 6, 2009 8:12 AM
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@the lesser of two weevils: They are, pretty much. Go for another airline instead for your Chinese travel needs. Or the train (Shanghai-HK first class for $400HKD each way- just can't beat that by air)

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mgy
July 6, 2009 1:04 AM
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Instead of people standing, why not do bleacher-style seating, like in the back of C130s?

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Tankueray
July 6, 2009 3:09 AM
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I was thinking more of heavy straps that you slip your feet into, or maybe ski boots that you lock down. Cheaper than stools right?

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KhaiJB
July 6, 2009 4:08 AM
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coming soon, Wing Class! provide your own heat and oxygen. looking in the cabin extra.

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bibliophibian
July 6, 2009 5:47 AM
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In the US, they charge you extra or refuse to let you board if they suspect that any part of your body might touch any part of a seatmate's body for any period of time during a flight.

In China, they seem to be headed towards a situation where they'll everyone, \"Inhale! I think we can get one more person in if you'll all just inhale!\"

Weird.

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jamar0303
July 6, 2009 8:12 AM
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@bibliophibian: That's because they're like that all the time, especially on public transportation.

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anduin
July 6, 2009 6:37 AM
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I never understood safety concerns about this, if a plane crashes 9/10 times its going down and its a wrap

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1 replies
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Etoiles
July 6, 2009 2:05 PM
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@anduin: It's not so much concerns about crashes as about during flight. In severe turbulence, anything not strapped down becomes a potential projectile -- including people.

Turbluence so severe that passengers get injured is a relative rarity, but hardly unheard of. There are also rough landings, which are not entirely uncommon, and when you consider that at the moment you hit the ground, you're going 100-200mph, being strapped in just makes sense.

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andrewe
July 6, 2009 12:37 PM
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This is fantastic!

I've always hated sitting on a plane. Sitting is not very comfortable for me. Add in the cramped seat and no leg room and I am very unhappy. I'd much rather stand.

Also there's be much less chance of having a screaming little kid right next to me.

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pupu
July 6, 2009 4:14 PM
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@andrewe: Also there's be much less chance of having a screaming little kid right next to me.


If there is you can always fart in its face since it is standing by u and much shorter.

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SrsRevo17
July 6, 2009 3:39 PM
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Actually, funny enough, there was an article online published about how RyanAir was considering this now too.
[www.telegraph.co.uk]

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Duckula22
July 6, 2009 4:14 PM
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Think of all those human projectiles, jeez.

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Anonymous
July 6, 2009 7:10 PM
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So much for Federal Avaition Regulations (or is that for U.S. airlines only?) Well, let'em stand up. I've seen a Southwest Airlines flight attendent crawl up the aisle well before it's safe during take-off. Add a few poles so people can hold on-- or partake in some dirty dancing :) Sheesh, what a world!

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