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#056 is nice.....cracking NOISE or actually cracking? Either or isnt great, but if the diff actually cracks, well just wow.....
#058 is also interesting......lets add more holes to a brand new car.
#056 is nice.....cracking NOISE or actually cracking? Either or isnt great, but if the diff actually cracks, well just wow.....
#058 is also interesting......lets add more holes to a brand new car.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-890779-100x100.png\")
I'm surprised that they sold enough of these cars that a comprehensive list could be made. Although, maybe they just sold the one.
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@Radi0logy: What planet are you from? This is one of the most anticipated new models in recent memory, and GM pumped that for all it was worth by announcing the car early, keeping lots of pictures of it out in the press, doing product placement with the Transformer movies, etc. They should easily sell every first-year model because lots of people are interested in the thing.
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also check for missing speed holes. they make the car go faster.
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@RecordStoreToughGuy: At least it isn't an old MG equipped with fallopian tubes on the emission system...
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-129735-100x100.png\")
How is this one a problem?
\"033. GFX installed correctly\"
Note to the creators of this list, you need to rewrite your list because half of the list identifies problems that people have experienced and the other half of the list identifies things that you should verify are working.
First year models or major design changes are usually full of issues until the assembly staff can figure out the best way to assemble and install the components without damaging them.
Did we consider that this is an inspection checklist? Most likely some of these items listed are things to ensure were done properly.
ie, \"Ensure GFX installed Correctly\"
However, I do agree that this list should be done in two versions. One listing problems as problems and one listing items that need attention when shopping for this car.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-188304-100x100.png\")
@Rachacha: 1st run models should not be low quality. Thats why cars go through at least a year of testing after the concept faze. Its not like the car was just invented and they are figuring out the assembly line.
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@Rachacha:
Thank Dog that GM retained all their highly-skilled, expert Union assembly line workers. Because they're worth the 3x salary/benefits they get compared to, you know, what common sense says you should pay them.
GM's union autoworkers don't get paid substantially more than the non-union American autoworkers employed by other manufacturers. They get paid more, but you're exaggerating.
The pay isn't the problem, the work rules that don't allow manufacturers to get rid of problem workers or otherwise optimize production is.
@Cant_stop_the_rock: 3x is a big exaggeration, I agree. However, you have to take in to account all the other union strong-armed benefits such as better 401k and extreme difficulty in firing lazy/incompetent workers.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-1203741-100x100.png\")
@YouDidWhatNow?: Actually the design was completed in Australia, and assembly is done in Canada, but thanks for playing.
@YouDidWhatNow?: Please do tell about the 3x pay, especially in Canada, where they have health care by the government
Nice try.
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Don't forget to check the halogen fluid too.
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I love the Chevy V8s. I grewup hotroding and building motors. But after meeting some brain dead unamerican people from Detriot and seeing how they want all of America to pay for their socialist screw ups.... I have to go with the M3 coupe. I went and looked at one last week, phenomenal vehicle. Much nicer than anything out of Detriot. Although, if I was going to buy an American made car, it would be a Honda.
@JoeDirt: That M3 you're lusting after is built in a country that's way more socialist than the US... but you don't want to know that, so you can feel more smug about your purchase.
@GearheadGeek:, I understood his \"socialist screw up\" comment to be referencing the UAW, not the government.
@GearheadGeek: Detroit sucks, so does their cars, I not buying one, deal with it. And by the way, in Munich where the M3 is built, it's less unionized than their Spartan, SC plant. In Munich, the floor sweeper does not make $70,000 (American dollars) a year like in Detroit. You fucktards in Michigan got enough of my tax money, I'm using what little freedom I have left and passing on the GM crapcars.
@JoeDirt: \"deal with it\"? I couldn't give a tinker's damn what you spend you money on, I was just pointing out the logical inconsistencies in your halfwitted rant about buying an M3 coupe instead of a Camaro because \"Detroit is socialist.\" In Munich, unions aren't as appealing to workers because the country's labor regulations are quite strict and they get many benefits from the government that the UAW squeezes out of the manufacturers, like health insurance and retirement.
@GearheadGeek: So are you redacting your last comment? I would let this one go. Your losing. You got to pick your battles and this one is a little over your head.
@JoeDirt: I am reiterating my previous comment, which is that Germany is MORE socialist in a general sense than the US, yet your stated reason that you \"have to go with the M3\" was that \"...they want all of America to pay for their socialist screw ups....\" I'm not losing anything, you're trying to ignore half of your post just to be argumentative. I've no doubt the M3 is a better car, and if you'd just said you were buying an M3 because it's a better car than because you want to strike a blow against socialism there'd be no argument in the first place.
@GearheadGeek: I was just researching your \"benefits from the government...\" comment and have to say that when you post a comment you really should research it first. You just cant pull things out of the air a say there true. Some of their employees are union and some are not. They are not bullied into joining a union but they are bullied from management to personally buy a BMW. Their non-gov, non-union benefits are better than most companies including a long vacation. Their pay is high because their product is superior and not because some the company was forced to pay high wages. This is how capitalism works. If BMW was a socialist company like GM, I would not buy from them either. If BMW had the same social issues as Detroit, I would buy another Infinity. And yes, buying a foreign car at this point, is less socialist that buying Detroit. That seams to be the part your confused with.
@JoeDirt: I hope you realize that these are GOVERNMENT mandated long vacations (six weeks in the summer, 1 week in the winter, plus Fall & Easter holidays) You got government subsidized health care (administered through a government entity called \"sozialmedizinischer dienst\", notice the name)
BMW even has union members on the board of directors. Damn socialists
In closing you're argument is bad enough that I have my doubts you can even afford either car.
@PhelanK: I will have to throw the bullshit flag on that one. BMW has its own health care. Sozialmedizinischer dienst is a choice in Germany. Most BMW employees have privet health care.
@JoeDirt: Look Germany is self is a much more socialized country than the US. All of the companies there benefit from favorable government practices, including BMW.
Countries are always mixtures of ideals. So yes parts of America policy is socialist. I really, really LIKE public police departments and public fire departments,roads and water. Are you going to argue that medicine and food were better in the US before the FDA was made?
Germany is more socialist than the US, Japan uses the government to prop up car companies, Korea uses it's government to press daewoo into America.
There are other good reasons for the government support of US heavy manufacturing.
@Techguy1138: I thought we already covered this. I love the Chevy V8 like I said in my first post. But until Detroit can get their head out of their asses, I will buy something else. I want to supporting US heavy manufacturing. So if I buy an American built car, it will be a Honda made in the South by workers that can hold a tighter tolerance than Detroit and do it without bankrupting their company. You know how people always make fun of Southerns, well look where all the high end work is going. This must piss Michigan off.
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@JoeDirt: Yep, I am a fucktard from Michigan... I am just rolling in all of your tax money... Oh, wait, no I'm not. I forgot, I'm dirt poor. Thanks for rolling me into that catagory though!
@JoeDirt: Damn Socialist America.... Of course only someone who has no clue what real Socialism is and also watches FoxNews would call America Socialist. Trying to save jobs by bailing out companies that should not have failed was a much better idea than letting them simply fail. The impact on the economy would have been devastating.
@parad0x360: So....delaying GM's bankruptcy by three months was productive? How is it's situation any better now than it would have been had they went bankrupt three months back? GM suffers from an absolute lack of any good leadership. Therefore, it will continue sucking until something changes. It will continue to steal money from the American taxpayer until it goes bankrupt or until new leadership is brought in.
@parad0x360: It's called capatalism. As for socialism, I have been to socialist, communist, and former communist countries and Detriot reaks of it. As for Fox News, is that the only conservitive news outlet you can think of? Detriot has already failed. Only a handful of people graduate highschool there, forget college. I'm not buying a car some retarted jackoffs built nor will most of America, Deal with it.
It must be a shame to get all excited only to find out your tranny is broken. (Tasteless, yes, but I couldn't resist.)
In all seriousness, this is a thorough list but most of these are so significant that they should have been picked up at the pre-delivery inspection.
@Eustace Silly: I used to work for Saturn so I'm familiar with GM's PDI procedures. They basically hand it off to the lowest paying tech, they look it over, give each system a cursory glance and then whip it around the block to put 10 miles on the odo.
If you had a slow day, you did PDI's and did them well. If you were slammed but your manager still wanted you to churn through PDI's, you did weak ass checking.
It looks like this list went through the same quality control that GM is legendary for:
006. Matching Headlight Halos strength. (one defective being dimmer then the other). Than != Then
015. Digital Speedometer is off. Also keeps going on and off. Off what? Turns off and on? Off as in not accurate?
032. Squeaky Breaks So what exactly does little Squeaky keep breaking? Maybe the car's brakes?
039. Loose interior windshield trim loose So does doubly-loose mean it's really bad?
And that's just a small sampling of the ones that jumped out at me while reading. Don't even ask me to proof-read it.
@ChrisC1234: ok, in case you have a problem understanding message board posts made by car guys (that isnt a tech debate board, they just want to get their points across I bet)
06. Matching Headlight Halos strength. (one defective being dimmer then the other). Than != Then
-...but we understood that
015. Digital Speedometer is off. Also keeps going on and off. Off what? Turns off and on? Off as in not accurate?
-yes. The first off means inaccurate, the second means turns on and off. There is no other way to interpret the sentence.
032. Squeaky Breaks So what exactly does little Squeaky keep breaking? Maybe the car's brakes?
-Yes, the cars brakes. They sound the same, say it out loud.
039. Loose interior windshield trim loose So does doubly-loose mean it's really bad?
-what do you mean
I hope this has been helpful in understanding message board posts that may or may not have been thoroughly proof read.
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17. broken tranny
dang! the economy must be bad. Where is he usually, in the trunk?
@moore850: lol Iw as gonna comment on # 17 as well seriously, I remember the days when chevy delivered a hard working tranny with your purchase of a camaro
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You know, I have seen exactly ONE new Camaro in San Diego... and the dealer plates said it was from LA. Kind of sad really, I have always loved Camaros, have owned 4 in the past 15 years (1 1st gen, 3 3rd gens) and I'm hoping that after all this mess with GM is over, the Camaro sticks around... I was a sad panda when they stopped making them back in 2002!
NPR just did a story about the new Camaro this morning, about how it is GM's \"halo\" car, something that improves morale at the company.
Well, from this list, it sounds like it's just another GM with the standard GM quality control.
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Well, Bumblebee at least seems pretty well-built.
@Nintenboy01: Its pretty sad that you have to go to an alien planet to get a well made American car.
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New slogan for GM: \"We put the K in Kuality!\" If every other year is really that bad, then we should've just let GM go under. To think, my tax dollars are supporting this garbage.
Gee, let me run out and buy one. I like how one of the items to check on your new car is \"broken transmission\".
The transmission on my first Honda (brand new 2000 coupe) blew up after 1200 miles. It wasnt a new design (2 yrs old at the time), Honda knew what the issue was but never really resolved it. Mysteriously the NEXT generation Accord had almost no transmission problems....they basically just swept the issue under the carpet.
I lean towards Nissan/Infiniti now. Dont like Toyota but havent tried a Lexus yet.
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Also make sure you check the trunk for dead hookers.
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@You know what ole' Jack Burton always says: \"I have a dismembered Baltic hooker bleeding through the tarp in my trunk.\"
i'll stick to 10+ year old used cars under $2k. If they're still on the road they must have had most of the bugs worked out by then, right? Current car: 1993 Mercedes 300ce, 220k miles. Drives like its new, 95% of the accessories still work.
The \"broken transmission\" problem has a recall; apparently some of the Tremec transmission units had some heat treatment issues and fail when the car is launched hard. We should just be glad GM is fixing the problem, unlike the poor guys broken GT-R transmissions.
...and the \"tranny\" jokes stopped being funny about forever ago.
If you have to go down a list of over fifty things to check before you accept a brand-new car and you still want to buy it, you need your head examined. Save yourself the headache and buy a Toyota.
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@VA_White: Yup. Good thing there's that $500 or so charge for \"Dealer Prep\", just to make sure the car is ready for delivery.
Oops.
@VA_White: I agree, mostly. The majority of these issues are cosmetic, noted by people who are REALLY into their cars, and for all we know, happened to a single vehicle. It doesn't mean that the car won't run for a long time and make a satisfied customer in the long run.
@Haggie1: My 2002 Acura RSX Type-S had 1 defect in the past 7 years. I had to replace a gasket about 3 months ago because it causes some resonance that sounded like an exhaust leak. Cost me $120. Aside from that...all is well.
If half of the 25000 orders have been filed as of June 25 (Katie Merx of Bloomberg)and they've had only 68 isolated issues. PPM comes out to 5440. That is not so good. I wonder what Chevy expects of their suppliers?
@vvvinny: You need to learn to do math. The industry standard is IPTV (issues per thousand vehicles) So its 68 divided by 25 equals issues per thousand.2.72 issues per thousand cars is each issue equalled a single time occurance for all cars which we know it isn't. Lets say theyve built 12500 then it would be 5.44 per thousand. The industry leading standard is around 100 per thousand.
@vvvinny: Since the problems listed are spread around various different parts and systems, it's likely that they're spread among many different suppliers. Each individual supplier could have a high level of quality overall and still have a few issues with ramping up production on new parts for a new model.
Also, some of the issues sound like they could be assembly issues rather than parts issues.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-109236-100x100.png\")
Sounds like an American made car.
A '67 Camaro from a junkyard would have a shorter list of defects...
@Haggie1: These are not defects found on one car. This is a comprehensive list of defects reported by a few of the hundreds of owners participating in the forum, and many of these individual defects were only reported by one owner.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-134275-100x100.png\")
I heard on NPR that either the 2009 or 2010 camaro is backordered by about 13,000 vehicles.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-17616-100x100.png\")
069. Mullet.
Its a 69 point list. It is considered bad form to use #23 twice when creating a list.
Did all the problem cars roll off the assembly line AFTER the workers found out they might be laid off? Perhaps our highly paid autoworkers were in a snit again and retaliating?
Yes, it happens. Way too much in automotive history. The UAW is powerful for a reason.
@AllighieroHabitus: No, this is a list from a hypercrytical auto enthusiast list. Most idiots who buy one without internet research etc would just have to bring it back for repairs later...
At least they started numbering with three digits. This list is far from over.
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You forgot one:
069. Buy a Ford Mustang.
@I Love New Jersey: Right on NJ! Nothing like this on any current-generation Mustang I've known. Any first-run model is going to have some production problems, but this Camaro list, even with the extraneous items and duplicates removed, is incredible. Forget bailouts and artificial tax-and-credit \"stimulus\" programs. If particular makes/models can't stand on the merits of their design and build quality, people aren't going to buy them. Better to get the downsizing/consolidation of this industry (GM, in particular) over with now than later.
this is why I drive an Ice Cream Truck!
-dave
I just baught a brand new camaro a few weeks ago. So far the only thing I've found wrong with it is that it didn't have a working horn. Can you believe that! I had no horn for 2 days! All GM did was quickly replace the fuse and pretended it never happened.
Must I point out that Honda and Toyota can almost always roll out a car in year one with a FRACTION of the defects on this list?
If GM can't do better than this -- and on their so-called halo car, no less -- then they really do deserve to go out of business.
The day when you could sell such slop to customers was back in the 1950's -- and Harley Earl passed away many years ago...
Geez, and American car companies are in trouble because of what again???
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Such a long list for a 2010 model. Maybe this is what happens when morale sinks. Like most companies, I bet the QC department was the first to get cut way back.
As much as I would like to buy american cars I just don't because I can't afford them to nickle and dime me to death. If they would just learn to build good quality cars like Toyota and Honda does they wouldn't be in the mess that they are in right now. Its really ashame they have that many issues with the Camaro.
Why oh why did our Government get involved in this run-into-the-ground, mismanaged company? I wouldn't drive another GM car if it was the last auto manufacturer on Earth. They've gotten away with selling junk for decades now. This list doesn't even surprise me.
You should checklist any new car - not just a specialty car- prior to signing the final documents. This gets the problems fixed FAST and NOW!!! versus you having to schedule an appointment to shlep back to the dealer and wait around for something to get fixed.
My ex-wife and I bought an AWD Dodge Durango SLT in late October 2001- after Sept.11 but before all of the 0% loan nonsense (who actually ever qualified?) started. The vehicle had sat for about 6 months on the dealer lot and the dealer was bailing on the price- msrp of the base stripper model for the maxed out model. In my delivery inspection, I noticed blemishes in the hood paint and a couple of other items. Biggest was that we had a dealer installed tow package and the wiring harness was not zip tied down at all. Infact, the wires were loose in the engine bay and would have fallen down into the left wheel well between the frame and wheelwell splash rubber potentially rubbing on the tire. When I pointed this (and the unused zip ties left in the wiper area) the sales guy about had a cow. And we doubled his angst when we said that we would be back in TWO days to pick up the fixed vehicle because we had to go out of town for a day. That wiring was fixed, the paint blemishes were removed, and it had a full tank of gas waiting when we came to pick it up...
When you look at what some of these imperfections are, and consider the source (a board with hundreds of fanatic enthusiasts) this is neither a surprising nor a concerning list because, as stated in the copy before the list, these aren't high-frequency defects nor are they defects found on any one car. It's a new model from a troubled company and it's selling very well. I don't think there's that much of a consumer story here, except that you should check out ANY car you buy in detail, it will save you money, frustration and inconvenience in the long run.
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Get your brand-spanking new Government Motors Camaro! While supplies last!
DOWn,baby, DOWn!
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-451700-100x100.png\")
A local community carpenter and friend of mine just bought a bright red 2010 Chevy Camaro. Beautiful car, he gave me a ride in it and man did that car go. Made my little 2000 VW Jetta seem like a go cart in comparison :P He told me he already put on over 2,000 miles, at least a 1,000 of that in the first week or so. Hasn't had any complaints so far that are on this list.
Am I the only one who hasn't seen a new Camaro on the road since 1995?
Didnt' realize they still made them, nor that people still bought them. Sort of an 80s thing, no?
My friend picked up his pre-ordered Camero on a Saturday morning. Sunday afternoon he fell asleep at the wheel and crashed it into a tree. Car is totaled. He is very hurt, but recovering.
$37,000 he paid for that car.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-212669-100x100.png\")
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-621269-100x100.png\")
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Well the list of cars I would buy from GM just went down by one more. We are left with the Corvette and a Cadillac.
@gqcarrick: You know there's more than one Cadillac, right? Or are you saying you'd just buy the CTS-V?
@gqcarrick:
See here's the problem - you're implying that you would not buy the new Camaro based on this list, but all we know is that all of these issues affected at least one car out of the thousands they've made. These are not known to be widespread quality issues.
If you made a similar list of all defects found in at least one unit of any model of car by any manufacturer, it would be just as long.
@gqcarrick: You got to see the M3 Coupe. I was going to buy the Vette but I think the BMW is a much better driving machine.
@gqcarrick: sounds like Government Motors is letting quality slip...