$37,000 he paid for that car.

Countries are always mixtures of ideals. So yes parts of America policy is socialist. I really, really LIKE public police departments and public fire departments,roads and water. Are you going to argue that medicine and food were better in the US before the FDA was made?

Germany is more socialist than the US, Japan uses the government to prop up car companies, Korea uses it's government to press daewoo into America.

There are other good reasons for the government support of US heavy manufacturing.

DOWn,baby, DOWn!

@PhelanK: seconded.

@Cant_stop_the_rock: Umm... I will pay you $500 if you can create a list like this for a 2010 Honda Civic, CRV, Accord or Toyota Camry, Corolla or 4Runner. List must come with photos & dealer responses to the alleged problems.

And yes, you could say, well this doesn't include photos or dealer comments. But I had a Camaro in high school that first had a new paint job under warranty because it chipped all over, and then with 27,000 miles had the alternator crap out. I sold it and haven't bought another American car since. And because I'm inclined to believe this list is anecdotal of true problems, never will again.

Oops.

@Heresy_Fnord: Or, how about the fact that GM's quality has been consistently shitty for a LONG TIME. That should be enough to scare a buyer away. Caveat emptor...or something like that.

BMW even has union members on the board of directors. Damn socialists

In closing you're argument is bad enough that I have my doubts you can even afford either car.

If you had a slow day, you did PDI's and did them well. If you were slammed but your manager still wanted you to churn through PDI's, you did weak ass checking.

You should checklist any new car - not just a specialty car- prior to signing the final documents. This gets the problems fixed FAST and NOW!!! versus you having to schedule an appointment to shlep back to the dealer and wait around for something to get fixed.

My ex-wife and I bought an AWD Dodge Durango SLT in late October 2001- after Sept.11 but before all of the 0% loan nonsense (who actually ever qualified?) started. The vehicle had sat for about 6 months on the dealer lot and the dealer was bailing on the price- msrp of the base stripper model for the maxed out model. In my delivery inspection, I noticed blemishes in the hood paint and a couple of other items. Biggest was that we had a dealer installed tow package and the wiring harness was not zip tied down at all. Infact, the wires were loose in the engine bay and would have fallen down into the left wheel well between the frame and wheelwell splash rubber potentially rubbing on the tire. When I pointed this (and the unused zip ties left in the wiper area) the sales guy about had a cow. And we doubled his angst when we said that we would be back in TWO days to pick up the fixed vehicle because we had to go out of town for a day. That wiring was fixed, the paint blemishes were removed, and it had a full tank of gas waiting when we came to pick it up...

@AllighieroHabitus: No, this is a list from a hypercrytical auto enthusiast list. Most idiots who buy one without internet research etc would just have to bring it back for repairs later...

@RecordStoreToughGuy: At least it isn't an old MG equipped with fallopian tubes on the emission system...

Why oh why did our Government get involved in this run-into-the-ground, mismanaged company? I wouldn't drive another GM car if it was the last auto manufacturer on Earth. They've gotten away with selling junk for decades now. This list doesn't even surprise me.

Did we consider that this is an inspection checklist? Most likely some of these items listed are things to ensure were done properly.

ie, "Ensure GFX installed Correctly"

However, I do agree that this list should be done in two versions. One listing problems as problems and one listing items that need attention when shopping for this car.

Such a long list for a 2010 model. Maybe this is what happens when morale sinks. Like most companies, I bet the QC department was the first to get cut way back.

Must I point out that Honda and Toyota can almost always roll out a car in year one with a FRACTION of the defects on this list?

If GM can't do better than this -- and on their so-called halo car, no less -- then they really do deserve to go out of business.

The day when you could sell such slop to customers was back in the 1950's -- and Harley Earl passed away many years ago...

@JoeDirt: Yep, I am a fucktard from Michigan... I am just rolling in all of your tax money... Oh, wait, no I'm not. I forgot, I'm dirt poor. Thanks for rolling me into that catagory though!

06. Matching Headlight Halos strength. (one defective being dimmer then the other). Than != Then
-...but we understood that
015. Digital Speedometer is off. Also keeps going on and off. Off what? Turns off and on? Off as in not accurate?
-yes. The first off means inaccurate, the second means turns on and off. There is no other way to interpret the sentence.
032. Squeaky Breaks So what exactly does little Squeaky keep breaking? Maybe the car's brakes?
-Yes, the cars brakes. They sound the same, say it out loud.
039. Loose interior windshield trim loose So does doubly-loose mean it's really bad?
-what do you mean

I hope this has been helpful in understanding message board posts that may or may not have been thoroughly proof read.

@VA_White: I agree, mostly. The majority of these issues are cosmetic, noted by people who are REALLY into their cars, and for all we know, happened to a single vehicle. It doesn't mean that the car won't run for a long time and make a satisfied customer in the long run.

@Cant_stop_the_rock:

The pay isn't the problem, the work rules that don't allow manufacturers to get rid of problem workers or otherwise optimize production is.

@moore850: I heard there was a recall for her Madam's Apple.

@costanza007:
Better check the rear-axle oil pan, too.

Also, some of the issues sound like they could be assembly issues rather than parts issues.

@howie_in_az: My bad. Sorry

@YouDidWhatNow?: Please do tell about the 3x pay, especially in Canada, where they have health care by the government

Nice try.

this is why I drive an Ice Cream Truck!

-dave

Lucky for us gqcarrick probably doesn't drive because every car everywhere has had a problem at some point.

Yes, it happens. Way too much in automotive history. The UAW is powerful for a reason.

@parad0x360: It's called capatalism. As for socialism, I have been to socialist, communist, and former communist countries and Detriot reaks of it. As for Fox News, is that the only conservitive news outlet you can think of? Detriot has already failed. Only a handful of people graduate highschool there, forget college. I'm not buying a car some retarted jackoffs built nor will most of America, Deal with it.

GM's union autoworkers don't get paid substantially more than the non-union American autoworkers employed by other manufacturers. They get paid more, but you're exaggerating.

See here's the problem - you're implying that you would not buy the new Camaro based on this list, but all we know is that all of these issues affected at least one car out of the thousands they've made. These are not known to be widespread quality issues.

If you made a similar list of all defects found in at least one unit of any model of car by any manufacturer, it would be just as long.

Wait, are your mom jokes still funny?

@Smashville: 070. REO Speedwagon shirt

069. Mullet.

@tgrwillki:

"I've never seen so many dead hookers"

"lord knows I have"

@ChrisC1234: Third on the don't proofread it. It's a freaking message board post.

I heard on NPR that either the 2009 or 2010 camaro is backordered by about 13,000 vehicles.

@ChrisC1234: This is me not asking you to proofread it

@gqcarrick: You got to see the M3 Coupe. I was going to buy the Vette but I think the BMW is a much better driving machine.

@CrazyTrain:

Still Union, thanks for playing.

@VA_White:

+1 This is a perfect example of why we should have let GM die

@moore850: lol Iw as gonna comment on # 17 as well seriously, I remember the days when chevy delivered a hard working tranny with your purchase of a camaro

@YouDidWhatNow?: Actually the design was completed in Australia, and assembly is done in Canada, but thanks for playing.

...and the "tranny" jokes stopped being funny about forever ago.

The transmission on my first Honda (brand new 2000 coupe) blew up after 1200 miles. It wasnt a new design (2 yrs old at the time), Honda knew what the issue was but never really resolved it. Mysteriously the NEXT generation Accord had almost no transmission problems....they basically just swept the issue under the carpet.

I lean towards Nissan/Infiniti now. Dont like Toyota but havent tried a Lexus yet.

@Rachacha:

Thank Dog that GM retained all their highly-skilled, expert Union assembly line workers. Because they're worth the 3x salary/benefits they get compared to, you know, what common sense says you should pay them.

@gqcarrick:

I can install all the speed holes you want on your car for only $10 a hole. Having a special too - $8,000 for 1,000 speed holes...20% off and your car will be so fast you won't be able to drive it!

Well, Bumblebee at least seems pretty well-built.

Well, from this list, it sounds like it's just another GM with the standard GM quality control.

dang! the economy must be bad. Where is he usually, in the trunk?

006. Matching Headlight Halos strength. (one defective being dimmer then the other). Than != Then
015. Digital Speedometer is off. Also keeps going on and off. Off what? Turns off and on? Off as in not accurate?
032. Squeaky Breaks So what exactly does little Squeaky keep breaking? Maybe the car's brakes?
039. Loose interior windshield trim loose So does doubly-loose mean it's really bad?

And that's just a small sampling of the ones that jumped out at me while reading. Don't even ask me to proof-read it.

In all seriousness, this is a thorough list but most of these are so significant that they should have been picked up at the pre-delivery inspection.

I love the Chevy V8s. I grewup hotroding and building motors. But after meeting some brain dead unamerican people from Detriot and seeing how they want all of America to pay for their socialist screw ups.... I have to go with the M3 coupe. I went and looked at one last week, phenomenal vehicle. Much nicer than anything out of Detriot. Although, if I was going to buy an American made car, it would be a Honda.

@wgrune: I'll get the elbow grease!

Don't forget to check the halogen fluid too.

How is this one a problem?
"033. GFX installed correctly"

Note to the creators of this list, you need to rewrite your list because half of the list identifies problems that people have experienced and the other half of the list identifies things that you should verify are working.

First year models or major design changes are usually full of issues until the assembly staff can figure out the best way to assemble and install the components without damaging them.

@costanza007: damn I thought the Johnson rod did that, I am missing out on those speed holes.

#058 is also interesting......lets add more holes to a brand new car.

Well the list of cars I would buy from GM just went down by one more. We are left with the Corvette and a Cadillac.