This wouldn't solve the availability of clothing for bigger (or smaller) women, but it would make the whole process of finding well fitting women's clothing much simpler, no?

being 5'0" and a size 18-20 makes it a lot worse sometimes. I can't go shopping at the plus sized stores in the mall because they think someone thats a size 20 is also 6 feet tall. it doesnt work that way! And I agree with what someone else said about sleeveless tops. I dont want those either! Give us nice, cute clothes that are comfortable and affordable and I guarantee that sales will go up.

Nordstrom's, Nordstrom's Rack, and eBay.

As a 32F, I know the financial pain of having to pay $86 - $150 for a bra that fits retail. But lately, I've even seen some of my size crop up in Marshall's for as little as $12.99 and in Daffy's for $9.99. And they usually have the matching pants somewhere [albeit on the floor] too.

And that's the crux. If you want clothes that fit well, and you don't want to pay HUGE money, you have to invest the time into shopping, or tailoring, or both.

[And I try to avoid pants at all costs and wear skirts or dresses. That made my life WAY easier than searching for the right length and rise in pants. Long legs, short torso, not fun.]

Also, where does a guy go if he's just tall? Big & Tall is exactly that, both.

I find I really only have problems with shirts nowadays... If it's not a really dressy shirt, it's all standardized stuff, Small, Medium, Large... ACK!

Rich people still eat steak and sushi, maintain svelte figure with personal trainer and good diet that has no regard for subsidies. Rich people can afford a new wardrobe this year.

Solved?

Being a guy and a very simple dresser, I'm not overly picky about my clothing. I had gained about 50lbs over 8 years though my 20's, and the one thing that I did to solve my choice problem was to lose weight. I kept throwing those clothes I couldn't fit into in the closet. I finally hit a point where I got tired of having to buy odd sizes because my waist wasn't one of the normal sizes, so I just lost my weight and I'm back to where I was in high school. Lots of choice and most of my old clothes still fit me. It was a little problematic for the 2-3 months it took me to drop the weight because then nothing would fit right...but I'm down to 190lbs again at 6'1", feeling good and lots of clothes to wear/choose from again.

One interesting thing I have noticed is that the last "acceptable" prejudice is against "fat" people. This of course is wrong and unacceptable, but there is very little we can do about it.

And... I wish you all a healthy happy life whatever your size and shape.

You can probably find something on their web site.

Granted, I don't like the style of much of the clothing there but being able to buy a bra in my size in the store means they get my business when I have the money. (Also, they have shirts with sleeves)

@the_wiggle: You're not the only one.

*glares at Lane Bryant*
*wants sleeves*

Who the f--- decided that plus size women should be wearing eye bleeding prints?

This is why I don't buy the "But it's HARD" argument when it comes to plus size clothing. The prints prove that they're going out of their way to make them ugly.

And the pants STILL fit me at 7 months pregnant, when I have the same size hips but a pretty big belly.

I swear, something about them is magical.

I've made the switch to fitted shirts and will not go back to regular cut dress shirts. I'm by no means "athletic" in build... in fact, I'd say that my belly is at least as big as my chest if not slightly bigger, yet regular dress shirts were always still too baggy for my tastes. I always assumed that fitted shirts were for super-thin guys, but once I actually started trying them on, I realized that I probably just needed to adjust my perception of my own body image.

where did those all go anyway?

lane bryant I am looking at YOU - purveyor of crap who used to have such things.

Gap online: They sell jeans up to size 20 online. Their Tall jeans that seem to be the only ones made to fit me perfectly (with the exception of being too short to wear with heels).

The Voluptuous Vixen - www.thevoluptuousvixen.com/ - for anything nice. It's an awesome, but pricey, boutique in New Orleans on Chartes that I love. The owner is a plus size woman even taller than me, so she gets it. Not to mention that know that I'm heading toward my 30s I'm looking for nicer quality, longer lasting clothes that my usual.

Dear Clothing Retailers,

We larger women have noticed a dramatic change in your stock availability. It seems that many of you are scaling back or eliminating altogether your plus-size offerings. Therefore, we are taking this to mean that you prefer we go out and about naked. Be prepared to see many naked fat women standing about outside your stores.

Thank You,
A Fat Woman

I think you are wrong about this. I think larger women want to BE ABLE to buy the same clothing as smaller women and feel like they are not being treated fairly because they can't.

I'm a freaking size 22 -- I don't want sleeveless shirts that show off my jiggly arms. I don't want thin, clingy fabrics. I don't want pants in stretchy fabric that show off every dimple on my ass. I don't want low rise pants. I don't want baby-doll tops that make me look pregnant.

I see you've been to Avenue recently.

And I don't want to see any more damned capris, either! I'm fat, not blind; nobody wants to see my tubby ankles even if my calves are pretty decent. Luckily, I'm fairly short and so longer capris are sometimes long enough to masquerade as regular pants. Provided, of course, that they're not cut in a lower waist style. I refuse to look like Uncle Bob with my belly hanging over my waistband.

I'm a tailored shirts and khakis kind of girl. Last season Avenue had some fairly decent women's shirts in many colors. I think I bought 5-6 and they've held up fairly well. They don't hold a pressing very well, but my dad's alterations lady showed me a trick of using a spray of diluted starch to give them some "body" so they look crisp for longer. Now I just live in mortal fear that my last two pairs of well-fitting khaki pants will start to look worn out.

@kexline is right:

I don't mind paying a lot for high-quality pieces I like, but right now my choice is to buy pieces I dislike or wear worn-out clothing, and I'm tired of it.

Next time I want a tent, though, I'll go buy a T-shirt for Wal*Mart.

(P.S. Target actually gets good designers to make their stuff, but they have a lot of the same sizing issues.)

@mythago: I saw some show on "fashion models" and they talked to the people who select the models.

Those idiots described the anorexic heroin-addict models as "average women". That tells you all you need to know.

The fashion industry is disgusting, pretending not to promote drugs or sex, but I have no doubt many execs encourage heroin and vicotin use, as well as having (or trying to have) sex with those (pre-)teenage girls.

[query.nytimes.com]

This is why I love being a guy. My wardrobe completely consists of 3 classes of clothing. About 80% of my clothing is T-Shirts and cargo pants. About 16% is polo shirts and khaki pants/shorts. Then the last 4% is given to my button down shirts and ties. Then mix in a single jacket and 1 pair of sneakers and you have a full map of my wardrobe.

"Plus if the woman goes up or down a size they might return to your brand to buy clothing again to fit their new needs."
Thankful I save all my old pants because just 4 months ago I was 225lbs(I am ~5'10" and was a 36" waist) now I am 185lbs and a loose fitting 34" waist when it comes to pants. And since I have worn the same basic concept for the last 10 years(I am 20 btw) I dont even need to revert to an older style when I do drop a pant size, but then again I dont even care what I wear as long as I dont scare anyone when I am walking on the street.

It's difficult to find things that fit in mall shops. I recently went into H&M and was disgusted at having to pick out a XL jacket. I know I'm chunky, but I'm not an XL anything.

They need to stop this silliness with arbitrary numbers, especially on pants, and just measure in inches like in men's clothes.

different styles of bras fit differently, so it's worth it to go into a store where you can be fitted each time. then, once you find a bra you like, you can always hunt it down more cheaply online.

i've never shopped there, but change ([www.change.com]) has a good variety of sizes; it's not dirt-cheap, but cheaper than most boutique stores. they're only in canada, europe, and the middle-east, though. figleaves.com is also decent.

and finding clothes that fit me and my chest? forget it.
this is why i do not shop. i end up buying nothing and feeling like i must be the spawn of various monsters.

Coincidentally, my gf commented last week that she actually can't find shirts small enough. She mentioned that over the past few years clothing sizing has been skewing larger. She generally wears M to S, but on a recent trip to buy some t-shirts (Gap/H&M/Old Navy), Extra Smalls were now too big for here to wear... she was pissed - does anyone sell something for what was once "normal" size?

With all that said. My big beef with this topic is that there are some shapes of people that are just hard to flatter. Maybe you have a thyroid condition. Maybe you lika the Mickey D's. I don't know. But no pair of pants is going to make your butt look good.

I second your emotion re: coat sleeves. I will stand in Burlington Coat Factory and go through a whole size row of winter jackets, for example, and find almost nothing that actually comes down over my wrists. And I am *not* built like an ape!

I have better luck with online ordering, especially Eddie Bauer and Lands End which make tall sizes with longer arms.

Love the Raquel ad! I remember those days. Speaking of which: I was "too skinny" as a teen when it was sexy to be very curvy; now I"m too plump/curvy when the fashion is to be ultra-thin.

It's amazing that the clothing designers who are scaling back their plus-size lines assume that if sales are anemic, it *must* be because the massive market of people who need their product suddenly don't want the product. The reason for their less than stellar sales is the quality of the garments.

As Jacquilynne said (above), if all you're offered is the same solid color pants and t-shirts year after year, then there's no reason to run to the stores. For example, if I could pick one store to shop in for regular sizes it would probably be Ann Taylor...I love the clothes there when I shop with my friends. There are literally no designers who come close to that look in plus-sizes. If you looked in the plus-size department of most stores you would assume that plus-size women have requested:

-that all their pants have elastic waists
-no patterns or prints, other than the most garish
-garments that stay as far away from the body as possibly, thereby amplifying the "mu-mu" look most tops give you
-incredibly wide footwear (did you know that plus size stores only sell wide shoes as if the fat affects everyone's shoe size)
-lavish ornamentation on every shirt that is not a plain t-shirt (bedazzlers must be working over time at the plus-size factories)

Here's my advice to these companies: stop trying so hard to figure us out. You don't need to try. We just want to wear the same clothes are everyone else.

@Garbanzo: I love 3/4 sleeves. I'm always pushing/rolling up the sleeves are shirts that come down to my wrist. It just comes down to personal preference. The problem is that there's no happy medium. It always seems to be all or nothing when it comes to stylistic things like this.

It's also true of some guy's clothes. Before I lost weight, I wore an XXL, and many places, including Target, charge a couple bucks extra for XXL.

I'm short for a guy (5'6"-ish) and probably pretty close to average waist-wise (35) and end up having to get pants hemmed so they fit. Nobody sells anything below 30", and I'm closer to needing a 26"

Not to mention that I have a 34" inseam which, unless I'm (for some reason) a size 32" waist, means I'm wearing something either on special order or with an elastic waist from the Big & Tall store.

I've got a 28" inseam and I'm by no means skinny. That combination leads to Petites, Juniors, and Women's clothes all not fitting me. A size 14 in Children's Plus, however... perfect fit! I can buy my jeans off the rack and not worry about hemming them up at all. And most of the time I can find fairly nice looking jeans (without all the frilly sequined and beaded stuff)

Although I was surprised they have menswear, too, so I guess everyone can share in the simple pleasures of clothing that falls off their bodies like a fine rack of ribs.

@verdantpine: Amen! I have clothes in my closet that range from size 5 to size 11. Im a 9 and on a good day, a 7. Now if only I can squeeze into a 3!!!!!!!

@pecan 3.14159265: my wife gets her suits taylored but she's a lawyer.

I am but a lowely stuedent/retail assistant manager. So my clothes not fiting arn't a hugely big concern of mine.

Maybe when I finish school and start teaching I may get taylored shirts but i'm super super cheap so I doubt this very much. But I agree about the looking cheap part tayloring shows.

Those of us who yo-yo buy smaller clothes when we're thin, and if we hate the way we look when we're heavier, we'll buy less "fat" clothes, or even abstain, in order to "punish" ourselves. (Most of the women I know have closets with "skinny", "medium" and "fat" clothes from different periods in their lives.)

Knowing that a lot of women will do this, buy smaller size clothes with "hope" on their mind ("hope I lose 10 pounds," "hope I can fit into this tight bikini by July") and avoid buying when we're "larger" gives the manufacturers no incentive to make the slightly more complex designs that flatter larger (or even normal-sized) women. It's harder for them to do, since most of them are trained to work with models who have bodies unlike the vast majority of us, and they move more volume on the smaller stuff. (After all, plenty of those size 10s are actually bought by people who will rocket back to a 12 or a 14 within the next 12 months and need to restock at least somewhat at the larger size. For the manufacturers, this is a WIN!)

It's also a selling point in a lot of weight loss commercials - "Look at the cute clothes I can wear now!" So many plus size clothes are so limited or so ugly, you may resolve to buy less until you "get in shape", instead of accepting what you are now, and doing the best you can for your health - not dieting or exercising like a maniac, but making permanent exercise and food changes that improve your longevity.

Ultimately, the only way things will change is for more women (and men) to respect and treat their bodies well, whether they're above-average sized or not. That means, for one thing, using more than just our weight to measure our health. There are plenty of skinny people in the world eating crap, not exercising, smoking, drinking and doing drugs.

@JuliB: Sorry Victoria's Secret doesn't make bra's for my wifes chest size. They end a little before they hit her number :P

@Kd McEntire: My wife spends 100-80 dollars at speciality stores.

She recently found 2 new bra's at Kohls But she's not quite your size I believe she's a 38DDD or 40DDD I always forget because she yoyo's too much. GOD help me when she gets pregnant though!

@misslisa: Have not been out there I live in NJ so we do have speciality stores but of course they're for the people who like that sort of thing. You could be like my wife's cousin from puerto rico and just do the whole "who cares if it fits so long as i show as much cleavage as possible" thing :P

Okay Im offically taking the cake on this one! Im 4'11"!!! Yes, shopping for pants and shirts are a bitch! Pants too long, pant legs are made huge for thunder thighs, and shirts are long enough to be dresses on me! (Well, okay a mini-dress!). Being petite still rocks though, cus *wink wink*, I'm really easy to pick up and spin around =P

Every time I put on a womens shirt is it halfway between my elbows and wrist.

Amen! I'm so glad the 3/4 (or 1/2??) length sleeve came in to fashion. That way I can wear something with sleeves that at least appear to end where they should.

I get frustrated that plus size people complain that they have no options for clothes, which they really do..

And I get frustrated by people who minimize the difficulties I have finding clothes. Our situations are clearly different, but that doesn't make either one easier.

IGigi, Junonia, BandLu, ALight, and Kiyonna.

I just ordered my first dress and shirt from Igigi, hoping that it fits... and that I do not have to dress in mother of the bride clothes at a close friend's wedding.

Because too many plus sizes in regular lines assume that all fat women must also be Amazons!

God, I wish! I'm 5'11", and I maybe once a year can find a pair of pants that clear my ankles, much less hitting the top of my shoe like they should.

And to be fair, it's frequently a lot easier to hem a pair of pants than to add mythical inches.

She's suggesting that if you think you can just dial a knob to make something bigger or smaller, you just can't; it's far more complex - read expensive.

...No, wait.

The only exception has been Express--and only in their denim. The editor pants I bought last week in 4s are still going to need hemmed.

Rereading this, it sounds like I'm a bit of a stub. I'm actually proportioned well. They just don't make clothes for curvy short women. Just frighteningly tall skinny women.

I've always fallen in the plus category, even at my fittest, as I'm taller than most women and my pelvis and shoulders wider. My friend struggles to get above a size zero even though she eats constantly.

My approach to shopping is if it fits, buy it, because at my size I can't afford to pass on anything. Shopping for me is an evil part of life.

On the other hand, my friend actually enjoys shopping and trying on clothes, obsessing over every detail of color, fabric, cut and fit. I've seen her try on dozens of garments (including sale items!) and leave without buying one.

We both are very happy to spend well on quality clothes. But it seems as if the garment industry enjoys insulting us -- no matter to which end of the spectrum we belong.

I can't even tell you how many women nearly broke in to tears over the fact that yet another resource for petite/plus clothing was going out of business. It really made me wonder why it was happening in the first place (corporate said they were scaling back to just their 'upscale' holdings like Brooks Brothers.)

I want loose, little shirts in cotton gauze because it is freakin' 95 degrees here on the first day of summer. And even though I don't like my upper arms, I'll take sleeveless shirts, for the same reason.

I want pants in stretchy fabric, as long as the stretchy fabric is french terry, because I need exercise clothes. The world is MESSED UP when the cheapest workable exercise clothes I can buy are from Ralph Lauren.

I want natural fibers. Long-staple ones -- why is it okay to sell a larger woman a $70 shirt that pills the first time she washes it? You can keep your no-iron stuff, too, because it's full of spandex and polyester and that crap makes me smell funny to myself.

I will agree with you on the clingy fabrics. Nobody wants to see my every contour. Also, "stretch" jeans invariably fit worse than regular ones. How can they be tight in the knees and loose in the waist? What the hell is that about?

I want so-called "low rise" jeans, not to have a low rise, but because I have a small butt and regular-rise women's pants hang between my knees.

I want work clothes, in natural fibers, without gold thread, without cleavage, without giant logos or icky prints, without ridiculous, ugly embellishments that will catch on things as I'm working in my server room.

I don't want gold thread or iridescent fibers in anything. And I wish I could take that "slinky" fabric out behind the barn and shoot it.

I don't mind paying a lot for high-quality pieces I like, but right now my choice is to buy pieces I dislike or wear worn-out clothing, and I'm tired of it.

This is my #1 pet peeve with buying clothing. I'm underweight according to most assessments, but I still have to buy plus-sized because nothing allows for curves.

The more realistic solution is for more classic styled clothing for women that is done based on the mens model of clothing production and sale. This fits the need of the consumer but does away with the hugely profitable market of selling people constantly changing cheaply produced fads.

@Steeb2er: There is a problem with standardization with t-shirts as well. Sometimes I get an extra large that fits me fine and other times I'm swimming in the damned thing.

@jurisenpai: For workout clothes, do lululemon. They fit a big range, and the clothes are good.

You said "a large segment of the population." HAHAHA.

Also, purchasers of high-end suiting are expected to take their suit to a tailor right after purchase. Actually, the only reason you shouldn't be taking your new suiting to the tailor is if it's bespoke.

I have resorted to making some of my clothing again out of total frustration with fit, quality and too many ugly options.

The difference between ladies' and women's sizes is that the womens' rise is even larger (on the assumption we have big butts, which some of us don't) and there are 4 inches between women's sizes, rather than 4.

Factor in a lack of saddlebags and an unwillingness to wear hootchie clothes or Ralph Lauren logos bigger than your head, and it becomes damn near impossible to find anything that fits. When I shop, I buy about one piece in 20, if I find anything at all.

Mens dress pants are constructed so the back seam and waistband can be easily altered. I have never encountered an off the rack piece of womens clothing that could be altered easily at the waist.

@floraposte: It's just kind of puzzling that there are so many people keen to buy clothes in these sizes and so few retailers interested in doing so.

I think you are wrong about this. I think larger women want to BE ABLE to buy the same clothing as smaller women and feel like they are not being treated fairly because they can't. I don't think many larger women would ACTUALLY buy some of the clothing that is marketed to smaller women. It just would not be flattering to them.

[www.flickr.com]

@Skankingmike: Do you ever come to Phoenix? Try the Last Chance Store for bras. They have several huge bins filled w/Wacoal, Natori, and other high-end brands, all for $3 to $6 each. In every size imaginable. Be forwarned: these are all customer returns. But most of them appear to have only been worn once or not at all.

... :( I say!

I'm not plus or petite size. I'm thinner and taller than the average women, but I have an hour glass figure and clothes are not designed for me either.

I think the entire fashion industry would benefit from designing good looking clothes for plus size women and then sizing down from there. Instead of designing clothes for some bean pole and just adding more fabric for larger sizes.

A bit of a sore point for me, apparently.

@JuliB: Vs has gotten better about the quality of their bras. The range goes up to a 40 in many of the newer styles. I love the BioFit and am a D cup. Be careful about getting sized though. It isn't set in stone and will vary across various fits, styles and brands. I have sold lingerie and cringe everytime I go to VS and they want to "fit me" because they insist that that is the size I wear.

Note: not necessarily sized for "fat" kids, more like sized for children who are too large for childrens clothes but do not fit into adults clothes yet. Juniors was supposed to fill that void however there are still some kids who don't fit into children's clothing yet also don't fit into Juniors, this is where the kids plus department comes in.

Have I boggled your mind yet?

Kids clothes are hard too. I had to ask what the heck a 2T size was.

I've given up and simply buy shirts that fit my torso, but inevitably the sleeves are too short, so I roll them up. I am doomed to have eternally exposed forearms.

@AbelKnukka: I'm just glad men's clothing is typically sized by an actual measure. The first time I saw that there was a size 0, and it wasn't some sort of 1-dimensional geometric construction, I got a headache. When I saw that there was a smaller size than zero, and that it was "00", well, my brain exploded right there in my head.

Is it that children are getting bigger or fatter that you can wear children's sizes?

And you have to be tiny to wear a 2 or 3 in juniors.

Also, there's a distinction between womens sizes and misses. Apparently, "misses" is the fab new phrase to describe plus sized clothing. I wandered into a misses section at Macy's one day and wondered why I couldn't find a 6.

I do think there's a tendency for attribution error in women shopping--we tend to assume everybody else is doing just fine and it's just us getting screwed, when, as this thread indicates, everybody has a tough time buying off the rack. And to be honest, I get that it's up to a store to carry what it wants and I'm not really likely to be offended by their decision not to market to me. It's just kind of puzzling that there are so many people keen to buy clothes in these sizes and so few retailers interested in doing so.

For winter I am screwed either way though. I have very long arms. Every time I put on a womens shirt is it halfway between my elbows and wrist. I can put on a size 3x and it still won't fit in the arms (and as I said in another post I wear a size 18 or a 1x and not a 3x) so when I put on a 3x I am swimming in it. My arms are not unusually fat either.

Coats are another rant altogether (as I run into the same problem with the arms except it seems to be a bit worse with coats), its not fun to be swimming in a coat especially in the cold weather here.

So if we didn't happen to catch the last pairs of 34x30, too bad for us... and we knew not to come back to "see if more came in," and thus didn't go back at all, and ended up not buying socks/undies/anything else there, and look where Mervyn's ended up.

@Jacquilynne: Exactly. I just did the same thing with some cheap tops I found at Sears. I now own four bright, summery colors of the same shirt. As far as work clothes go, I've been used the same dress pants for years because I can't find new ones that fit correctly and look/feel halfway decent. Has anyone else also noticed that besides plus size clothes looking like they were made for 80-year olds, the material feels absolutely ghastly? I can't stand having the stuff against my skin. :/

@kcthcnsmr: Srry, ws stll t lnch...

f, s th CDC clms, th vrg mrcn wmn s 5'4", 168 pnds, nd wrs sz 14,...

...thn sh nds t qt tng s dmn mch nd try t gt sm knd f xrcs. Nt: Gng bck nd frth frm th cch t th frdg drng prh ds NT cnt s xrcs.

You obviously haven't discovered bermuda shorts yet though, they are great! One of the best things to come out within the last 5 years.

Stretch jersey is nobody's friend. Especially for garments on the lower body.

@TinkishDelight: but Wacoal does! Which I now buy on eBay because the Macy's in my area stopped carrying Wacoal.

The plus size clothes I see available are things that were clearly designed for the elderly/matronly/frumpy set and stuff that's designed for 15yos who want to look like off duty Suicide Girls. This kind of leaves out the professional demographic and those of us who like to look current, not trendy.

Shopping for clothes is usually so demoralizing that when I find something I like, I buy it in multiples and try to avoid shopping again until what I have wears out.

Don't get me started on having a butt, either. My mom, a WASP if there ever was one, whispered to me in a department store that I should find out "where all the black girls shop," so that I could actually buy dress pants that fit. Really?

Well, yes, if you want to only pay $9.99 for a pair of pants, they are not going to fit perfectly. This is why premium denim exists, because they spend quite a bit of time making each size look good (yay for Joes Jeans and Sevens). Plus a lot of premium brands go up to 32, which is a 12/14 in most other brands.

Myself I have the problem that I have stubby hobbit arms, perhaps a curse for being Asian :P In any case I find shirts in Asia fit me much better, in that if I find my correct neck size, it doesn't mean my sleeves are dangling half way to the floor.

@floraposte: That is probably true.. I just get really irritated when I see Lane Bryant in my mall when they took out Petite Sophisticate.

Maybe Lane Bryant isn't that great.. but it is a store of plus sized clothes.

It does suck across the board.

I wish more stores would follow the example of Ann Taylor and post on the outside of the door (usually towards the bottom) the sizes they sell. That makes my life easier, saves me the embarrassment of asking and being frustrated looking and it doesn't turn away all the "normal sized" gals.

It kind of sounds like a textbook example to me.

The day designers start designing for bodies instead of runways is the day I start giving a crap about clothes.

Not usually my cup of tea, but I found the article quite interesting and felt you missed one of the major issues being pointed to in it - maybe not explicitly enough. It is cheaper - and when you talk 'scale' that difference can be massive - to make clothes one way. With margins so abysmal, it's a real issue. She made a point about petit that I thought you mis-read:

What petite and plus size ranges share is that neither is merely a scale version of standard size clothing. Instead, they are each specialized creations, made using different pattern blocks and different fit models. Petite clothing isn't just regular-size clothing with shorter hems and sleeves, and plus clothing isn't just a bigger cut of a standard size. In both cases, potentially fit-wrecking pattern details like the knee break, the armscye, pocket placement, torso length, waist-hip ratio, and shoulder breadth have to be re-examined. Buttons, belts, pockets, and any other final touches should be sized proportionally. The gauge of the prints on the fabrics used should be adapted, so that petite women aren't swimming in giant florals, and those of us who are heavier aren't swathed in dinky blooms. Petite women, it bears pointing out, face a lot of the same issues as plus-size women do when shopping for clothes. I winced when I watched this video of Lisa Taylor, a 4'9" woman from the UK, trying to shop. Although Taylor is extremely polite about the "petite" offerings from Selfridges department store, when she steps out of the dressing room in a wide belt practically the size of her own ribcage, it's clear that something's not right.

She's suggesting that if you think you can just dial a knob to make something bigger or smaller, you just can't; it's far more complex - read expensive.

The curiosity and I guess fear is that you don't want to make a bunch of clothes for a particular size/group - misjudge the amount of sales and then be stuck with all those clothes, the unsold inventory. Again, cost is the motivating factor. The OP points out how different women (read all human beings) bodies really are, even at the same height and weight. It's a very valid point. But of course a mfg. doesn't want to make things that fit everyone, just the people that tend to buy the most of their stuff. That's the judgment, however mistaken, they make.

I long for the day when we can go on-demand. You see what you want, you are sized, maybe one time, at your favorite store, and you then you make your choice and boom, out comes a custom-tailored outfit. It would prove cheaper, I believe (once the tech is there) for the producer and obviously be much better for the wearer.

I should not have to spend more money (shipping) and time (trying on, doesn't fit, sending back, waiting for new size to arrive, etc) because they deem a size 16 taboo to sell in the store.

Yes, I'm tall, but I have a longer torso and shorter legs (thanks parents!). The shirts there are almost always like a midriff top for me.

I've taken to shopping in thrift stores and just buying men's tees for not work wear. Thankfully, I wear a uniform to work, so I just have to buy polos and the occasional pair of pants.

Seriously, though, setting aside the issue of whether you approve of what humans look like or not, isn't it a little weird that businesses are so uninterested in getting revenue from a large segment of the population?

I also have the broad shoulders "problem," and I'm glad I was too young to deal with the shoulder pad craze. I would have been found raging through store aisles, ripping out shoulder pads and flinging them at passers-by.

The thing about the article is that it appears that the retailers they're talking deal with semi-high end brands. Thus it doesn't really matter what the average "American" is. They are catering to their 'average rich person' demographic. It doesn't make sense for them to make these plus size clothes because their target audience doesn't buy them. From a cost of materials stand point it's not much difference, but it does make a difference from inventory standpoint.

@Outrun1986: No, it hasn't changed. It's one of the things Nordstrom sells you on when you go into their store. VS technically fits me (DD) but their bras aren't built to hold a grape. It took many broken bra straps before I figured it out.

And that's an area that women seriously under-explore. Nobody, plus, petite, or both or in-between, fits neatly into every garment off the rack (there's a tendency for us to believe it's that we're shaped unusually, when it's just that humans are too variable to fit off the rack). You want to get the most bang for your clothing buck? Devote 20%-25% of it to alterations. It freed me from fit being a random crap shoot unrelated to the utility of a garment.

I'm tired of almost everything over a size 2 being little more than a floral-print, polyester sack.

I wear a size 22, and I know exactly why I'm not buying new clothes -- they stink! They're AWFUL! I'm a freaking size 22 -- I don't want sleeveless shirts that show off my jiggly arms. I don't want thin, clingy fabrics. I don't want pants in stretchy fabric that show off every dimple on my ass. I don't want low rise pants. I don't want baby-doll tops that make me look pregnant. I'm big enough, ffs, I don't need tops that poof out over my belly. I don't want clothes that only look good on models just cut bigger.

I want plus size fashion from five years ago... I want nice button-down shirts in no-iron fabric with nice patterns. I want pants that button on my waist. I want slacks that I'm not embarassed to wear to work. I want SLEEVES!!!! And when I get sleeves, I want them to be loose, not tight.

Dammit.

Men, generally, have been uncomfortable with clothes that are very fitting. It's only in the past few years that men have embraced very tailored clothing and this is now mainstream (blame the metrosexual movement, if you'd like, but I think this has been a good thing for the average male).

Larger people who wear big clothes to "hide" their largeness only look bigger. The key is to wear structured fabrics (shirts with buttons, pants without pleats) that don't bulge in funny places, that don't stick out strangely...and stay shaped the way they were made, not how your body is shaped. Create a new figure from the one you have, and use clothes to do it. I don't have an hourglass figure, but I have a dress that instantly does so. Awesome!

With womens fashion, a lot of emphasis is placed on cut and some women end up with gaping blouses, and after the 20th gaping blouse, you have to not only contend that this is what the good Lord gave you and you really can't do much about it, but also that no retailers seem to understand this. This is the frustration I see.

If you advertise plus sized clothes, yet the clothes aren't actually plus sized, how much business do you think that is going to get you? They are essentially taking a size 10 or a medium and slapping a 3x tag on it. If your going to do that why not just slap the proper sizes on the clothes and market to the correct group of people.

A size 22 or 24 person walking into one of these stores will have to walk right out due to the erronous sizing, that isn't doing the store any good. The person isn't buying anything. The person then goes and tells all their friends that the clothes run extremely small and aren't plus sized at all. Then none of the friends go to the store either because it is pointless. No one who is a size 6 or 8 wants to be seen shopping in a store that has plus sized clothing plastered all over the outside, nor will they know that is a store where they would find something that will fit them.

In theory, because women's pants need two measurements on the top, not one. Men fall pretty straight from the waist, but women have one measurement at the waist and one at the hips. The 4/6/8/etc. in theory reflects a particularly-sized proportion of waist-to-hips. But ... women come in all shapes from pencil to hourglass, apple to pear, and if you have 40" hips, that may be wide pelvic bones, a pouchy lower belly, or a lot of junk in the trunk. None of those pants will fit quite the same.

Still, a very few stores do sell women's pants by waist x length measurements (The Buckle, for jeans), and it is INFINITELY easier to find a correct size, even with all the hassle still in waists and hips. And, really, if I buy "size 8" to fit my hips, I can fit three of my best friends in the waist ... and if I go to The Buckle and buy 34x30 (or whatever, I have no idea), I'll still be able to fit my three best friends in the waistline but at least they'll be the right length for a change ... and I'll have inch-incremental size differences, which gets me a closer fit.

I am also 5'2". I do three things: have a tailor hem my nice pants, hem my own cheap pants, or wear 3" high heels to avoid hemming the pants.

(When I was pregnant, I had to get a LOT of hemming done because I couldn't wear heels after a certain point, and it wasn't safe to go wandering around tripping on my pants ... and they don't MAKE short lengths in maternity pants. And since I couldn't reach my own feet to pin them up for hemming, I had to get people to do it for me. :P If your wife's never been pregnant, there's so much more pants-fun in store for her!)

@pecan 3.14159265: I fall under "shorter people" "thinner people" and "people who have no curves".. At 4'6" and 70 pounds I have tons of clothing challanges that I face personally.

Thankfully I have a job where I can dress casually (Jeans and polo shirts/nice tops) so it's not quite so bad.. but if I worked where I'd have to wear suits every day I'd be paying most of my pay checks to a tailor.

I get frustrated that plus size people complain that they have no options for clothes, which they really do.. but if I want to wear pants I have to buy a 0 and have it tailored within an inch of it's life.. or for jeans I have found that SOME of the pants at Limited Too fit, but most are not appropreate for adults. (I can't wear sparkley flowered jeans to work.)

I can find tops that fit at a few more stores at their junior sections.. but even that is a stretch sometimes. And what is with places like Old Navy making their XS tops seam HUGE all the sudden?

/Tiny person rant

@Laura Northrup: Try Wacoal. They're a little pricier, but they're beautiful, fantastic and last forever.

Of course, that leads to the pile o'pants referenced in the original post.

It may or may not be a feminist issue. I have no idea. But it is certainly not a consumer issue, big or otherwise.

No one is under any obligation to sell what you want. I might want a mobius pizza more than anything. Someone else might want cute, well-fitting clothes in larger sizes. But neither of us are owed what we want and no one is obligated to make and sell it.

I personally think the clothing industry is making a huge mistake by ignoring a huge market. But my opinions and five cents will get me no more than a nickel.

@Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!): I miss them too.. I found them only a couple of months before they went out of business.

I charish my two jackets I got from them before they went down..

An excellent point!

I would suggest Victoria's Secret. They will measure her and then she can try on a couple to get the right fit. She can then order online in more colors of the styles that fit, perhaps catching sales or coupons.

No, they're not cheap, but their bras do last a long time.

My wife is 5'2" and can never find pants the right lenght. First of all as I've learned, women's pants don't come in easy to use sizes like men's. I wear a 32 waist and 34 inseam. Bam, easy. Women's come in a weird thing like 8 long. WTF is that? 32 and 34 are very specific sizes, they're measurements in inches. 8 is not a measurement. Long is not a measurement. Why make things difficult? Why not make a 26x28 or whatever equivalent?

I get batshit crazy when shopping with my wife, because we go to probably about five hundred stores, only to find nobody carries pants in a mother f#&ing short inseam.

I'm done ranting. That felt good

I think I love you. ;)

For you, I get your pain! Try Ann Taylor LOFT when they have their big sales. I've gotten cardigans for $20 before, and they've lasted for years. Also, when they have their dress sales, you can get really great dresses for $30 or less. H&M has some decent basics like short-sleeved sweaters (I'm wearing one I got on sale for $10).

I'm always thinking, there as got to be a way to combine the lower cost of ready-to-wear with the fit of tailored clothing. Men's suit shops do this by providing suits that are 3/4 finished and then a tailor does up the hems and so forth. Can't they do this for women's nicer clothing as well? Have it *mostly* made in the factory, but with, oh, the bust darts and the hems unfinished so they can be inexpensively fitted to the particular woman?

I also find it really ironic that America is getting fatter, yet there are less plus sized clothes out there. I would think designers would try to profit from all of this fatness by designing clothes that fat people could fit into to capitalize on this.

@mythago: I fell desperately in love with salwar kameez when on a business trip to Dubai. SOOOO feminine and comfortable. And really easy to make if you have any sewing experience at all.

Because of this horrid metrosexual bullshit they now make "athletic fit" and various types of clothing that are a size say 38 but don't actually fit a man who's a size 38

I range apparently from 38-40 in most clothing lines and L to XL in most shirts (not that either fit)

Also most men who are size 40 must not be a size 32 in length... sigh

I thought they were gone entirely. Evidently, no.

I have the opposite problem; I can't find anything that's small enough without spending a fortune! I'm 5'4'', 100lbs and everything that fits me is trendy designer crap that costs a fortune. Where can a small female get classic styled clothes at JC Penney prices without going on a scavenger hunt?

@AbelKnukka: Style is everything. I wear size X in jeans, X-1 in fitted pants, and X-2 in loose pants. If your wife wants to know what her real size is, she should measure herself then look at the back of a sewing pattern. Prepare for the inevitable crying jags when she finds out she's really a size 10 according to the standard size models.

Plus-size women's clothes cost more per garment than the same style in smaller women's clothing. This may or may not be due to the extra cost of fabric, but the fabric doesn't account for the sometimes huge price differences.

Since plus-size garments cost more, and plus-size women make less on the average than normal-size women, I think the decline is due in part to simple affordability. I make do with a closet full of black pants and eye-catching shirts for work, so I don't have to buy so many things and the things I do have are good quality and don't need to be replaced as often.

Also, I haven't purchased clothes in a B&M store for years. Online and mail order for me.

...my good-natured message here would be: "Fatties Unite!"

Sounds like there's a gap in the market to be filled. If no one else wants to sell plus-size stuff, then enter the market and crush it.

I wear a 2 in one store...I walk into another store, and suddenly I wear a 6 or an 8. I'm not plus sized, but I'm not thin either. But the labels would say otherwise if I fell into a spectrum of wearing double digits.

No wonder women develop weight complexes. The size 8 woman finds a store that dips into double digits and suddenly she's considered fat!

However she does complain about bras (and so does our bank account :P) Busty woman should unit against this bias against larger chested women! It seems they are forced into small local boutiques to buy bras to fit them, I suppose you can order online, but she's not into that.

I also would like to complain about the lack of cheap tall clothing lines. We tall people would like to buy cheap clothes too.

I find I just buy regular clothes and deal with them not fitting right.

Ann Taylor Loft actually sells pants that fit me, but I have to order them online because I'm tall, and they only stock petites and regular lengths in the store. I also love tall jackets, because I hate it when sleeves make it nowhere near my wrists.

And do NOT get me started about work out clothing! Why is it so hard to purchase *flattering* exercise attire that is cut for curvy bodies. Not everyone who works out had a straight up-and-down figure, and I am much more likely to go to the gym if I feel comfortable with my clothing.

I'm 5'5" and, depending on medical factors, weigh between 210 and 240 (which also makes elastic waists and drawstrings necessities). Hopefully this foot surgery will finally allow me to get in enough exercise without severe pain to keep it down to the lower end of that, maybe even less.

But the only clothes that fit well are those made for both fat AND short women, which are hard to find.

And actually, a lot of the time I have better success with menswear anyway. Which sucks.

It's just difficult when shorter people or taller people or wider people or even people who have no curves have to deal with clothes that clearly cannot conform to their needs.

It's sad when I stop and realize that by default, I think of any given store as off limits unless they specifically advertise plus size clothes. Name any five clothing stores and I can bet they don't carry plus-size clothes.

But as a 6'7", 240lb, 27-yr-old male ... I have a heck of a time trying to find shoes that fit, pants that don't expose my ankle, shorts going past the knee, pants that aren't midriffs, etc. I'm not big enough for most Big and Tall, but too big for most regular stores.

I SOMEWHAT feel your pain, ladies. Sorry.

All I ask is that they make women's pants sized like men's pants.

If I know my leg lenth and my waist lengh...
POOF! Perfect Pair of Pants, don't even have to try them on.

Seriously, how hard is it?

I must go to there. Stat.

Seriously, this has been going on as long as I can recall. It's like clothing designers have that part of their brains removed that lets them figure out 'if we don't make a product people can wear, they won't buy our stuff'.

She was up to a 10 or 12 after the baby. She's happy to be back down to an 8, and ecstatic that a 6 fit. Then a 4 fit too.

Seems that maybe they're making clothes the same (regular and plus) sizes, but putting lower numbers on the labels?

Thank goodness guys clothes never go out of fashion...

@pecan 3.14159265: I have very short legs and am 5 feet, yet petite pants are often too short and regular too long.

It's not that difficult to make plus sized clothing. The margins for clothing are sky freaking high, so the return is well worth the investment.

Plus if the woman goes up or down a size they might return to your brand to buy clothing again to fit their new needs.

Ann Taylor LOFT has a great petites section, I've noticed. A lot of t he things it makes for "regular" size people is replicated in petites.