It's clear stupidity that this guy can't understand reality. You are in a scooter, not a car, you can't use the drive-thru. I bet this guy will sue Tim Horton's if he got hit in the drive thru. " They couldn't maintain the safety of all of their customers"

you should have seen the woman who had the same complaint earlier, she was a fat b****. she could have skipped a burger or two and been fine...

I don't know how far those things can go, but I do know they can go FAST. I had to jump into the street once when some kid on one came barreling down the sidewalk. He was going as fast as the traffic, and it was very distressing.

@Jetts: I have my relatives send it by the case. Their coffee is better than sex...

Not to mention the brainwashing and basically being a complete dick to everyone, including - but not limited to - every single member of the Avengers.

@Julius Seizure. (Lackey Position Avail.): I think they're refering to the $10 which is purply-pinkish depending on how you want to describe it. Who pays for coffee with a $50, assuming you can even get the store to take the bill in the first place?

Timmy's is just avoiding the potential lawsuit when the poor bastard gets robbed by a crack head hiding in the bushes. They figure you are safer in a car and if you do get robbed, your auto insurance becomes the PIP (primary insurance provider) and they don't have to cover you.

[www.cbc.ca]

Disability acts in Canada are currently a Province wide mandate meaning that each province has its own rules when it comes to disabilities.

in Ontario it's over the top nutty as to what we have to do. for example in an government building that is currently under construction we have to be able to accommodate hospital stretchers into a jury box (just in case)

handicap accessible washroom prison cells. emergency exits with braille, you name the disability we have to accommodate it. in some cases they contradict each other but that's what you gotta do.

if anything gets renovated it MUST be handicap accessible the only exception is a private residence.

hell, our stupid wheelchair access doors need a button that is a minimum diameter of 10" and include tactile feedback for the visually impaired (outline of a wheel chair)

i'm pretty sure nova Scotia is the same way.

@supercereal: This is a new-build establishment, opened very recently. The problem is that Tim Horton's standard building layouts are either way too cramped or require maneuvering that that scooter is too long for, and most don't have powered doors.

@Shivved: Which is why the NS HRC ruled in favour of the guy who wanted to put a satellite in his (apartment building's) yard so he could get Al-Jazeera, right?

Oh, wait.

@HiPwr: Speaking as someone who's gotten into an accident in a fast-food parking lot in the same city, I don't think it actually IS a liability issue. I was told by both the first responders and my insurance company that anything involving moving vehicles on private property is an automatic 50/50 to be settled between those involved. I expect a moving vehicle and a pedestrian would be the same case at worst, possibly 100% liability for the driver. I know for a fact that the owner of my local Timmy's serves walkups on a discretionary basis (ie, don't be staggering drunk or look like you're gonna stab the drive-through guy and you're fine).

@SadSam: That IS the primary issue from what I've seen on it (which is a bit more extensive than what's here). He would prefer going to the counter, but Tim's designs really don't allow it, so he tries the drive-through as a backup.

@RecordStoreToughGuy: You've obviously never been to a Tim Horton's. There's a perfectly good reason it takes three people, other than weight - two of them would have to hold the doors open. Most Tim's vestibules (including the one in the picture) require a hard 90 inside them, and have just enough space for a single person to stand and open the door. His scooter is almost certainly too long for him to do it unaided - even if it had powered doors, which it probably doesn't.

It's an endemic issue across most full-size Tim's locations. The solution, unfortunately for them, involes a major redesign of their properties. Fire regs, I'm told, require doors to open outward around here, and the vestibules can't be expanded without encroaching on either drive-through or dining-room space.

As for your rather rude assumption about the cause of his disability, I'll get back to you if I can get a local paper while I'm at lunch.

He has not right to Tim Horton's. He can make coffee at home its its a problem.

@dreamsneverend: Yes, but Davros here will certainly make it into a war.

(if anyone gets the reference, I'd love you forever)

@Brian James Schend: Yeah, what a lazy asshole, what with his ALS and whatnot. That fancy wheelchair and computer voice is because he's too fat to walk and talk, not because he lacks the ability to move due to an incurable disease.

I'm probably a jerk for thinking of that first, admittedly, but I don't think it's 'character assassination." That'd be if I said he used his scooter to run over puppies for fun.

This has NOTHING to do with disabilities and EVERYTHING to do with driving a non-roadworthy vehicle on a road. Sure, it's a PRIVATE road, but the government is NOT going to give a private person a hard time for using their private roadway the same way the government uses theirs. And I don't see any reason why we should set a double standard for such things.

All the late-night drive thru Tim Horton's I've seen have the "dining room" open as well. And that's even at 4 am. He should have used that. If he couldn't, he should know that this place has decided that they are only going to serve people in a motor vehicle at night and called a cab/friend to help him.

I even recall a TV ad from a few years back that jokingly showed someone on a bicycle NOT using the drive thru for this entire reason.

It seems clear to me that this is discrimination; he is on a road-worthy vehicle in a drive-through lane and the only reason he is being turned away is the nature of his vehicle (which would not happen to anybody else), which he uses because of his disability. He doesn't even have to make excuses about indoor use, all he has to say is this:

"The province of Nova Scotia permits me to use my vehicle on the road, and I am being turned away at the drive through for it, which would not happen if I was not disabled."

Period, end of story, Tim Hortons is wrong (but their French Vanilla is so right).

@Mykie Gunderson: Absoloutely not!! The Scooty Puff, Jr is for SAFE fun only.

@RecordStoreToughGuy:

If this fellow has any complaint it is that he cannot access the inside of the store in his motorized wheel chair, that might be an issue as the store might not be handicap accessible.

Presumptuous, ignorant, boorish...you go, "Tough Guy".

@wvFrugan: I am not so good at motivating myself to walk instead of drive, but when I do, I am continuously dismayed by the inconvenience of walking in most parts of my city (Portland, Maine), as well as many I've visited. Most notable is the lack of walk-up ATMs. I've never been yelled at for walking through a drive through, but as many people have pointed out about the fast food drive through, I don't feel at all safe standing in what is an essentially (albeit slow) driving lane.

Tim Hortons kills people, obviously.

Still, its always been a given -- at least here in the states -- that if you aren't riding inside two tons of metal or on a motorcycle, the drive-thru isn't for you. Either way, they should have given him the coffee that would have taken less than a minute to pour as a courtesy but inform him that next time, he'd need to go inside.

A drive-thru is a stop and go line of cars being driven by distracted drivers (dealing with kids, taking passenger orders, shouting in the clown mouth, getting money, change, dealing with bags and drinks, etc.). If you allow pedestrians, bicyclists, wheelchairs and mobility scooters to mix with the cars in the drive-thru, sooner or later someone is going to get bumped by a car. When a car hits another car at 5mph in the drive-thru, it's not a big deal and no one is going to sue the restaurant. If a car hits a guy in a wheelchair, it's a disaster and there's going to be a lawsuit.

I never worked at a fast food place, but I'll bet cars bump into each other there on a regular basis.

Oh, and @RecordStoreToughGuy, Iron Man has gone thru several distinct evil phases in his life:
1. His flirtations with demon whiskey,
2. Teaming up with Black Sabbath,
3. Having Stan Lee as his agent (now that dude is evil...)
and most importantly,
4. Allowing the West Coast Avengers to exist.

Not flame on, flame out!

@pecan 3.14159265: Try riding in one. 7 months pregnant. With a psycho driver who is intent on scaring the hell out of you.

.... after they pulled me out of the fetal position, changed my pants, and gave me valium, I had a better appreciation for the truck driver.

Clearly they are willing to block access to handicapped people beacaus it says that they ban wheelchairs.

Probably a bit like this.

aaaand that's pretty much the difference between the U.S. and Canada.

@pecan 3.14159265: Especially if it has all the dangerous goods signs that proclaim flamable, explosive, deadly slapped all over the vehicle. Honestly, the big tanker trucks that look brand new and sparkly clean stainless steel are more terifying than the McDonalds truck that's almost three times as big as it goes by.

Seriously, though... never get between a Canuck and his Timbits. Especially when you live in a town called Lower Sackville.

If this was a government-owned coffee shop, things would be very different. But it isn't. If I owned that Tim Horton's and this customer tried to bully me, I'd close shop. And be very open about the reason. I wonder how long Mr. Scooter would last in a small Nova Scotia town after forcing Timmy's to shut it's doors.

:P

I still had a good laugh at your comment, and thank you for it. ;)

oh wait, that would be the counter.

And he is wrong; it is not a human rights issue, unless you count not getting run over to be a basic human right.

Flame on!

As long as the building is accessible to those with disabilities and his scooter is some-sort of approved vehicle for a person with disabilities, there's no reason why he shouldn't be going into the store to get his food/drink. Drive-thus were "invented" to speed things up, so of course they're going to want to limit traffic by banning peds, bikes, and any other non-vehicles.

I believe in laws enacted to protect those with disabilities from discrimination, but I do not believe that these laws afford such individuals preferential treatment. In fact, I've had many personal encounters where certain individuals with disabilities do not want preferential treatment and would be angry at someone trying to get such treatment by taking advantage of their situation.

The store shouldn't be forced to serve him or anyone else.

@a_pink_poodle:

Does that matter?

I firmly think that even now - if the "drive up" is open and the walk in is closed then the place should serve anyone who comes to the window - car or not.

I would rule against the restaurant.

@Matthew Berkhan: Its like the complete opposite of Starbucks, they sell normal black coffee and tea. They do have the fancy stuff but yeah its mostly coffee and tea. They sell donuts and Timbits(munchkins) the closest thing to Tims would be Dunkin Donuts in the states.

@Mykie Gunderson: In a thousand years, I'll get right on it.

@wvFrugan:
Sorry all, but there are NO inside ATMs here inside these banks or lobbies. Also, you CAN NOT just walk up to the auto ATMs during the day (banking hours) as the drive thru ATMs are located along with the drive thru tellers and they DO religiously yell at walk ups. I yell back after asking the location of a walk up ATM (they confirm there is none).

@Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!):
Canada is very extreme on discrimination of any kind.
I can understand why they wouldn't let him go through the drive thru but they should have big enough doors for a scooter.

I know here there are some Tims thats I doubt a scooter could get in and I know others that would be prefectly fine, the only ones kinda have single doors or ones with a beam in the middle.

They don't serve people on stilts, pogo-sticks, surf-boards, hippity-hops, skis, stilts, dogsleds, toboggans, tauntauns, or rolling coal-mine cars full of TNT either. What's next? Claims of discrimination from the national pogo-stick league because they couldn't get their coffee and sliders from the drive thru?

I definitely agree with having the walk-in part of the store be accessible or (as a favor) having one of the employees walk the guy's coffee out to him.

@Damocles57:
I see your point and it makes sense. But you can still get hurt this way.

In my city we have a In N Out burger that is extremely busy, and dangerous, due to poor design choices. Its old though so take it as you will. Anyhow, they have a walk up window but it crosses paths of the 2 drive through lanes exits. I've been through that drive through and to the walk up window, its dangerous either way. Blind spots for both pedestrians and motorists exiting.

Its safer at night especially to just not serve walk up people. There are places like 7-11 where you can go grab a burrito or something at.

I didn't think scooters were wider than regular wheelchairs. The restaurant offering to have three employees help the customer is a fair option (though I'd just have a worker with a headset walk outside and handle the order).

Come back when you have a Scotty-Puff Senior.

Honestly, if a company is trying to send a message out of going green ( recycle those cups or bring in your own mug) then why are you stopping a man who is driving a scooter from not using the drive thru. It is more greener than driving the car.

The policy needs to be changed - especially if you like to drink your coffee at night and the front entrance is closed. Your company policy is going to reject the customer because he isnt driving a car? I remember a few days ago when I went to mcdonalds late at night (yes i know but everything else close by was closed), some guy started walking up to my car while i was in line at the drive thru. I was scared but then he came up and said could you please get me a coffee because they closed the front door. I ended up getting him the coffee.

In that case, there should be no onus on the store to accommodate him in the drive through. However, he should most assuredly be able to use the "walk in" portion of the store - if he can't get in, there's the place to focus his energy

We also had a case of a man on a horse going thru the drive-thru.

[manzer.net]

The Timmie in question has offered to have 3(!) employees help him any time he wants, but buddy thinks that isn't enough, and wants double automatic doors installed.

Darn blasted HTML whozits. Fine. Asterisks then.

*snicker*

And it doesn't even have to be an SUV. Against a motorized scooter, even a Mini Cooper could be deadly.

He's just plain lazy and feels entitled to things the way he wants, not the way they should be.

Umm, you know no one stops you from walking up and using the ATM, right? It's just as good as driving up to one. They're unmanned and no one gives a flying frak what you do.

It's not wroth it. Why spend 5-10k (just guessing) knocking another hole in your wall to set up a walk-through window when 1) you take orders at the counter and 2) the number of people in wheelchairs/scooters who probably come in on a daily basis is less than 10.

Of course they have liability. If this guy did get his @$$ run over he'd sue claiming negligence. They allowed him to use the same drive-through as people in SUVs knowing there was a chance they could not see him and run his @$$ over.

CALL THE STORE AND ASK THEM TO BRING YOUR COFFEE OUT TO YOU!!!
It's Canada for god's sake, they're bred to be nice about things like this.

And then the restaurant will be in trouble because they weren't supposed to serve him through the drive thru window anyway. If they served him through the regular counter, that's one thing - they're allowed to do that. But it's against the rules for them to serve him at the drive thru because they don't consider his scooter a car.

Besides a fuck you to these businesses and their authoritarian tripped employees that fail to address disabled folks with any concept of equitable compassion, I am sick of these drive up only things: my local Chase Bank branches only have drive thru ATMs, there are multiple Chase ATMs at drive up locations, but not a single walk up ATM anywhere. I like to save a bit of driving & walk when downtown, but no luck for banking.

Still, being overlooked is the larger issue which is if a fast food restaurant refuses to server you, THEY'RE DOING YOU A FAVOR! If anyone had a reason to sue it would be the people that got served.

The HRCs in Canada are basically the thought police, with almost no accountability. Ask Ezra Levant or Maclean's magazine who they would rather be up against, an HRC or a court. I have a feeling both would rather deal with a court.

IF these establishments want to make money and IF they provide a window for people in cars to make a purchase, how difficult would it be to provide a Walk-Up Window in addition to a Drive-Up Window?

Do they only want to sell to people in vehicles?

Sounds like an opportunity for some local business to promote walking or biking and claim some "Green" benefit by discouraging the use of fossil fuel consuming vehicles.

His money's green. It's not in their best interest to turn him away. Then again, do they have any liability if some yahoo in an SUV runs him over in their drive thru?

This was probably already addressed in the White Castle story, but I didn't read that one. Sorry.

This article and the one about the woman and white castle just seem dumb. A waste of time, unless it finally sets the issue to rest.

I can see the wheel chair access thing. Thats all fine and dandy. But the scooters are just, like this gentleman Matthews says, is just too big. I see people on them at the grocery store, and places like target. They are the size of the shopping carts. They don't really belong in a small space.

And again, they are still dangerous because they are meant to assist in walking. You can throw out a car is meant to assist in walking, but wheel chairs and electric mobility scooters don't go much faster than a walking pace, where as a car can go far and fast.

It's not that difficult, if possible, to ask someone in a car to buy you something through the drive thru, or even in his case a patron in the shop. I had a gentleman ride up to me one night on his bike and ask me to buy him something with my order at the drive thru. He gave me cash, I ordered it, gave him his food, he thanked me. Simple enough.

if he drove there, he should have stayed in his car; if he "walked" (rode the scooter from his house/ public transit dropoff) then i don't know what to say - the scooter should be small enough and maneuverable enough to fit inside a normal doorway (at least, all of the ones i've seen are)