@mac-phisto: here's the thing: there are tons of (non-opiate) medicines out there that MAY cause impairment and say so on the bottle. I'm on a couple of them. However, the side effects that justify such a warning will occur in a minority of cases. Not in mine. I just don't drive when I'm beginning a new medication or getting off an old one. Trust me, you don't want that many Americans to be unable to drive.

@deadandy: Your wish is granted.

Here is the notice about the FDA scientific advisory board meeting:
[www.fda.gov]

It includes background information on why they are having the meeting, including the scientific concerns.

It links to a page with their findings and proposed regulation:
[www.fda.gov]

The drug war has long been a vietnam here at home. When we finally end the war we're going to feel the same way we did when we lost in vietnam, and that is, why the hell did it take us so long to get the hell out of there.

I disagree when you say its not their fault - the info is right on both packages, very clearly and in plain english.

This ruling is going to make life considerably more painful for a lot of people, for little longterm benefit.

Sound ridiculous? Not if your desire is to enforce perfect safety measures.

yet they do, b/c it's legal & cops don't enforce DUIs for people on scripted medication.

@cecilpl: But I do it like they do on TV. I crush up the pills with cup or chew the pills and wash it down with some Early Times.

I thought this was how everyone else takes it.

@yagisencho: I think acetaminophen doesn't work on me now. I used to only take it when I was a kid, then the Excedren Migraine came put and I used it, now I take a horse pills worth of Ibuprofen (800 mgs) and that seems to work most times.

You know, since THC is still not covered by my health insurance.

Yep. I think that's what most people do. Most folks don't read their food labels either.

Just take a Benadryl. That's what's knocking you out. Same stuff they put in TylenolPM. Tylenol's "Simply Sleep" is simply Benadryl. I think a lot of the people ODing are taking TylenolPM because they want to be knocked out but don't want to admit they're using it primarily for that.

Sure, but if you go there, you'll have to pull alcohol into the picture. How many fatal car crashes from that stuff?

I would venture to say most folks that thinking driving stoned is a bad idea also think driving drunk is a bad idea. That has nothing to do with whether or not it should be legal. It can be legal while having similar restrictions to alcohol.

Impaired people aren't typically good judges of how impaired they are. I've found out later that people I thought were horribly bad, distracted drivers were stoned at the time. I didn't realize it because they weren't particularly stoned. They were tracking just fine in a conversation. They seemed sober. Totally frightening behind the wheel.

Honestly I'm an awful driver sober (I blame it on years and years of urban living allowing me to skip that whole licensing business) so I'm really careful about any impairments that are within my control.

I was actually referring to observations of others. Fast drivers seem to go slower and are so paranoid that they obey traffic laws (turn signaling in Maryland??) that in any other case they'd ignore. Obviously my evidence is anecdotal and I've never actually looked into so above was genuine disbelief.

So don't, okay? Stay home and get the pizza delivered.

It's not their fault, but the problem is that someone with a nasty cold or flu will take two or three Tylenol for their headache/fever, and then they'll also go and take a couple of a completely different multi-symptom pills (like nyquil), not understanding that they're getting a double dose of acetaminophen.

The issue isn't whether or not the Tylenol label does enough to warn you not to take too much Tylenol (I think it does.) It's whether or not it should also warn you not to take it if you're also taking x, and whether x should say not to take Tylenol if you're taking x. That might not be a bad idea.

@TexasMama37:

It's ibuprofen that's considered dangerous for pregnant mothers.

@CheritaChen:

I haven't gone the prescription route - just one or two Excedrin Migraine as needed. Thanks to the EM, I haven't had an uncontrolled migraine blowout for a couple of years. If there are safer alternatives to EM though, I'm all ears.

I had read that the liquid form of pseudophedrine couldn't be converted to meth, only the powder forms.

I got the impression from one of these articles that a big problem was people taking NyQuil AND Tylenol both because they're not reading labels or don't know what a safe limit is.

So, this is a little off-topic from the article, but what do you take? I take Imitrex, Maxalt, and vicodin as abortive medicines (obviously not at the same time) and either Topamax and Atenolol as a prophylactic. I also take big doses of vitamin B2 (riboflavin) and magnesium. They have controlled mine to 3-4 migraines a month, but they really seem to get better when I pay attention to what I eat.

@JeffIowa: Immediate heart attacks are zero. But weed is pretty bad for your lungs and can contribute to heart disease just like smoking cigs can.

So, my view is to treat them and tax them like cigs, alcohol, etc.

'Uh. . .yeah. I'd like to order. . .um. . .a pizza. With. . .um. . .toppings. Yeah, toppings!'

Both marijuana and acetaminophen have been shown to be effective for managing pain, though.

So what's your point?

My sister had really bad 'heartburn' for years until she started taking the little purple pill. Her results were astounding. We joke about it because its just like the TV ad where the friendly black guy says something like "Stop the pain. Heal the damage." Her case was probably a textbook case for the purple pill, but she took it for the month, rapidly got better, and now she's problem-free in that regard. She could still use a career.

In reality, however, it probably doesn't do a thing to curb or prevent meth sales or use. It's more like the security theater at the airport.

As far as pain relievers go, APAP occupies a useful niche, although not one as necessary as most people think. It is non-addictive (unlike opioids) and has none of the gastric side-effects of NSAIDs. (ASA, Ibuprofen, Naproxen, etc.) Yes, taken in larger-than-the-label does over a long time, it can induce gradual hepatic failure, especially when combined with chronic alcohol consumption.

However, most APAP-induced deaths are due to suicide. Yes, it is surprisingly easy to kill yourself with it, and it is indeed a horrible way to go. (You feel few symptoms right away, it can't be treated after 12 hours or so, you then spend a couple of days with nothing obviously wrong with you, then you die from liver failure.) But this is not a reason to ban it from the house.

I do agree that it should not be used as an add-on to other meds. I buy only single-ingredient cold remedies because I also don't want to run the risk of OD-ing on something because I was too zonked to read the ingredient list.

@ekzachtly: The amount they would need to render enough for meth should be enough of a red flag though.

@cmdrsass: They're just more sedentary and hungrier.

In all seriousness though - I've known few people under that influence who would drive that way. Most people camp out on their living room floor and play tetris/Dr. Mario/Mario Kart/Anything with colors while listening to the dead.

@missi1226: I totally agree with you. I just don't understand how putting these items behind the counter is going to all of a sudden give people the common sense to read the dosage recommendations and not abuse it anyway once they get home.

I pretty much support pulling all the OTC drugs that mix acetaminophen with other things off the shelves. You should only take a drug if you actually have specifically considered whether you need each one, not just because it's in the mix with something else. It's stupid that like 3/4 of the cold medications on the market have acetaminophen in them, because a lot of the time I find you don't need it. Why take something potentially toxic just because it's mixed with something else you want? Buy them separately and dose appropriately.

Brett Favre circa mid-1990's thinks the FDA is way out of line here.

Yeah, but the majority of people that smoke pot don't do it then go out and party on the town. They plan around staying home and "chillin" or hanging out. Not driving all over the place.

Sadly, it happens more often than you think. People think it's safe because it's sold OTC - but daily use can cause long-term kidney and liver damage - even if you don't OD.

Seriously though, at one point years ago I was on fistfuls of prescribed meds and I knew, just KNEW, they were slowly killing me even though the doctors said they were to "help" me. Today, I avoid pills of any kind until absolutely necessary. Even if it means enduring a headache or two. I don't even take heartburn pills anymore. Half a glass of water with a half teaspoon of sodium bicarbonate (Baking soda) will instantly relieve heartburn and is much cheaper and less dangerous than packaged heartburn pills.

On the other hand, I eat whatever I want with complete disregard for health factors. Far too much beef, soda, fast food, chips, etc. But at least I know what's in those things, for better or worse.

You can have my happy pills when you pry them from my cold, dead-from-a-damaged-liver hands.

You should also NEVER take acetaminophen before or after drinking alcohol. Alcohol also consumes your liver's supply of glutathione, which makes the acetaminophen you take far more damaging.

Sure, but if you go there, you'll have to pull alcohol into the picture. How many fatal car crashes from that stuff?

Essentially, there are two main metabolic pathways in your liver that break down tylenol. The primary one is non-toxic but it becomes saturated around 4 grams. That causes the additional tylenol to go through the secondary pathway, which produces toxic byproducts.

The bad thing is, alcohol also uses the primary pathway, so as you drink it becomes saturated more quickly and more tylenol gets diverted to the secondary, toxic pathway.

I'm definitely one of those people that OD on neproxin/motrin/etc etc. I see a limit of 6 and that's what I use for my dosage. I just can't handle pain!

They mention the study in this article (it says it was 33-44% of subjects).

[www.medicinenet.com]

I specifically remember this because within days of seeing that story, I was talking to my mom, who told me her doctor had told her to take the maximum daily dosage of Tylenol every day, indefinitely, for arthritis pain. I told her not to, obviously.

Interestingly, I recently had a doctor recommend the same thing to me for very little reason.

It's made me wonder if this is common practice among doctors--to prescribe long-term use of OTC painkillers for their cumulative effects.

@henwy: Really? I feel like it makes you a better driver.

How many fatal car crashes? Probably thousands.

How many overdoses/liver failures/heart attacks etc. from Mary Jane? Exactly 0.

Have they asked people whether they take acetaminophen with NyQuil because they don't read the label and were unaware it was already present or because people believe that "some medicine is good, so more must be better"?

Didn't Tylenol run a series of commercials asking the public not to use its products if people were not going to follow the dosing directions?

If I'm unable to take my migraine happy pills, the alternative is sequestering myself to a dark, quiet place for 12-36 hours while my pain centers pound my brain into submission.

Otherwise, I'm cool with this.

The real NyQuil is already behind the counters, at least in Florida.

They say it's because people use it to make Meth.