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I guess if you've gotten thrown out of every other bar in town, you can get blitzed at the local Stop N Shop.
I guess if you've gotten thrown out of every other bar in town, you can get blitzed at the local Stop N Shop.
Hey, that's my hometown paper. Weeeird.
The store should put up a cramped booth (like an old phone booth) in a corner and designate it the beer drinking area. It should have no place to sit and be hot and uncomfortable. This would put them in technical compliance with the law, with no particular risk that people would actually drink there.
@dwasifar: There was a diner/restaurant that the city forced to install a 2nd toilet even though the one they had was perfectly capable of handling the crowd they had, but the capacity of the place was like 2-3 people more than would allow them one toilet. So they installed a 2nd toilet. In the front window open on all sides. No one had used it yet when I read the story.
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@Cant_stop_the_rock: They have the license, they just don't want to have people drinking on the premises. In PA, you can't have it one way or the other.
You joke, but that's what some convenience stores do. In most cases, it's a really crappy \"bar\" made out of plywood, with maybe a stool or two.
That doesn't stop some of the aged locals from sitting there anyway, drinking and smoking.
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Looks like 12-packs only at sheetz in PA now?
I don't think so. I'm not entirely familiar with PA laws, but I think your options for beer are buying a case at a beer distributor (basically a store that sells only beer, not hard liquor), or smaller quantities at a restaurant.
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@Cant_stop_the_rock: You can only get it by the case at a beer distributor. Otherwise, it's a 6 pack at restaurants. Same rule goes for mixers. You can't sell mixers where you sell hard spirits, hence why a lot of grocery stores (e.g. the Redner's Market in Hamburg, PA) have a separate state-controlled alcohol store INSIDE the actual grocery store (and all the mixer's are conveniently placed outside the boozamahol store's entrance).
It's a big loophole, but it works. You just have to checkout twice.
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@Preyfar: that's false, at least at the way you explained it--many mixers are sold within plcb stores. not things like tonic water, seltzer, or ice, but margarita mix and the like. [employee here, woo]
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@katieoh: i think the difference is whether or not the mixer contains alcohol, no? some contain a small amount (2-6%) while the grocery-type are alcohol-free.
@katieoh: Weird. All of the stores near me aren't allowed to sell margarita, daiquiri mix, etc. But they do have ice machines outside. They all re-direct you to a grocery store.
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Not quite a year ago I started working for a company that's headquarted in PA - i'm out there all the time. Their liquor laws are retarded...and I thought my home state of MN's laws were retarded...they simply don't allow liquor stores to be open on Sundays (apparently no one in MN has heard of seperation of church and state).
It's mind-boggling what the beer costs anyway...there's a beer store (not a liqour store mind you - beer, wine, and liquor all happen in different places) next to the hotel I stay at...a 6-pack of pretty much anything costs $10 or more. Basically, what a 12-pack of the same stuff would cost me in MN. Co-workers tell me that's just the way it is.
On the other hand, you can buy 40 oz. bottles of beer (like High Life) or malt liquor (like Colt 45) for as low as $1.80. Which is the price of \"Hurricane,\" which has no flavor but is very cheap. Or splurge and get something with more flavor for $2 to $3.25.
So if the 6-pack you want is $12, a neat $2 per 12 oz., or you can buy a 40 oz. bottle for $2...well, let's just say I am all about the 40 when I'm in PA.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-95687-100x100.png\")
@YouDidWhatNow?: Texas has the same \"blue\" law where liquor stores can't be open sundays and no beer or wine before noon. I think it's utterly rediculous. It isn't going to do a single thing to stop people from drinking on Sunday. It just means they're going to buy twice as much on Saturday, or get twice as hammered on Monday. I also think wet-dry districtis are stupid too, it just encourages DUI.
However, I can kinda agree about the law where places selling hard liquor have to bar entrance to anyone under the age of 21. It does cut down on underage drinking. In Missouri where my mother lives, all alcohol laws are done at the state (no local option) and you can buy Whiskey, Vodka, you name it, at Wal-Mart 24 hours a day. Underage drinking is a real problem in my mom's town. There's so few places for kids to work other than the grocer and Wal-Mart and the kids wanting to score booze often get their friend who is a cashier to let them buy it. Heck, my sister who my parents deemed the \"good child\" partied all the time she was in High School.
@YouDidWhatNow?: You can buy anything alcoholic except beer in the state stores, the Wine and Spirits Shoppeesss. Some grocery stores are putting state stores inside the grocery story, like with separate cashiers and you can't take unpaid-for merchandise between them. You can buy six packs in bars and take them, but they're more expensive than they should be; you have to buy cases at nasty distributors.
In Philadelphia, you get your liquor when you go down the shore, as soon as you cross the state line.
@YouDidWhatNow?: That \"beer store\" probably has a bar liquor license, which allows them to sell 6-packs (only two per person!) and 40s.
(As opposed to beer distributors, where you have to buy cases or kegs.)
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@YouDidWhatNow?: I live in PA and all these complicated rules just make me glad I don't drink beer. One stop for me at the liquor store, and I'm good.
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I'm originally from PA, and it's still strange to me when I see liquor in supermarkets here in AZ.
However, we have a strange law in AZ as well. You can't buy liquor between 2 a.m. and 10 a.m. on Sundays. This is usually a non-issue, but if you're making a run on Sunday morning to get your beer before the first football game (which starts at 10 a.m. - another thing I can't get used to) you're not going to get it in time for kickoff.
@tbax929: Wow, Illinois is actually doing something right! It makes sense, actually; we need to have 24-7 alcohol access both to help our idiot lawmakers to get elected and to help us deal with their stupidity.
Honestly though, it never occurred to me that some states had such strange laws about their alcohol. I'm fairly certain we don't have more drunks in Illinois than in other states. People will get their alcohol if they really want it, so all laws like that do is piss off consumers.
@Quill2006: in NH the state runs the liquor stores...and sells it for dirt cheap. We put liquor stores ON HIGHWAY REST STOPS!
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@YouDidWhatNow?: NC: beer and wine can be bought at the gas station or grocery store or specific wine store or pretty much anywhere- liquor has to be sold by a state run liquor store mon-sat 9-9, closed sundays. if you buy more than 8 liters at a time you need a license to drive it home [always take multiple shoppers and cars when stocking for a party, or make a couple of trips]
my out of state guests always want to know why the \"ABC Store\" logo isn't brightly colored blocks like it is in some other states that allow privately owned liquor stores - it's all \"A_lcoholic B_everage C_ontrol\"
the weird part is that both the grocery store and the liquor store sells Bailey's because the law hasn't decided WHAT irish cream really is
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@catastrophegirl - brand new homeowner:
both the grocery store and the liquor store sells Bailey's because the law hasn't decided WHAT irish cream really is
I can answer that in one word: DELICIOUS!
<sets off to find highball glass>
@catastrophegirl - brand new homeowner: Don't forget that you can't buy beer and wine before noon on Sunday. I ended up having to kill some time walking around the grocery store until I could check out when I used to live there.
@ElGordo1: i don't think i ever tried to buy beer and wine at that time... on sundays if i'm AWAKE by noon it's a surprise to me
@YouDidWhatNow?: Tell me about it. We have resorted to beer clubs. X people buy X cases and devide so you get a few of each. There some beers I live once in awhile, but won't buy a whole case of.
@YouDidWhatNow?: dum da dummm--your friendly plcb clerk here. many stores are open on sunday. given, it may vary by county, but there are 5 in mine that are open from 12 to 5 on sundays. ;]
@katieoh:
...\"PLCB?\"
What state are you talking about? MN has a state-wide ban on liquor stores being open on Sunday. I have no idea if PA has any such laws, as I'm never there on the weekends...
@YouDidWhatNow?: your phrasing was ambiguous; i thought you were talking about pa not allowing stores to be open on sundays. sorry about that.
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@YouDidWhatNow?: You thought MN was bad??? Try living in Connecticut. In addition to liquor stores being closed on Sundays, they close at 9 PM every other day, as opposed to MN's 10 PM. That hour makes a WORLD of difference...and it used to be 8 PM!
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@katstermonster: South Carolina Liquor Stores Are closed on Sunday and at 7PM the rest of the week.
I wish we had IL's liquor laws...
Go to the grocery store that is open 24 hours and buy whatever you want (beer, wine, liquor) whenever you want.
@catastrophegirl - brand new homeowner: I'm on the fence about this one. On one hand, your drinks were STRONG, but on the other hand, most places would let you order 1, 2, or 3 minibottles and split it several ways, so I could get a jagerbomb for 7 dollars or so, but I could split it 3 ways, vs. now get about the same by ordering 3, for ~10.50 depending on the bar...
Yes. I grew up in IL...moved to MN maybe 10 years ago or so. IL is pretty much perfectly rational when it comes to liquor sales...which is to say, you can buy liquor anywhere and any time you want, without any stupid restrictions. Every gas station, convenience store, and grocery store has beer, wine, and liquor. 24-hours a day, 7 days a week.
Strangely enough, with MN's bizarre laws about Sundays and \"on-sale\" and \"off-sale\" liquor, which is apparently a mildly retarded way of trying to differentiate between a bar (former) and liquor store (latter), they still allow for happy hours...which I think have been outlawed pretty much everywhere else.
@YouDidWhatNow?: I'm in Indiana and KY and IN are closed on sundays. I used to drive 2 hours to IL when I'd forget or was having a party.
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@Bgeezy: From what I've seen in Missouri the only restriction is no booze sold from 1am to midnight on Sunday. It's never really been a problem.
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@YouDidWhatNow?: Don't forget beer sold in grocery stores and gas stations is 3.2% ABV instead of real beer. So Lame.
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@YouDidWhatNow?: Dude...Hurricane? I guess if your only goal is to get drunk and you don't want to enjoy what you're drinking, by all means....
Yes, that is it's only possible use. I didn't know that though...I had been sampling the various available 40s, and Hurricane is not likely one I'll be re-buying.
Silly, silly law. I have family who live in PA, near the Maryland border. They don't drink, but when they need a six-pack or two for entertaining, they head to MD instead of letting themselves be forced to buy a whole case at a package store. No doubt many of their neighbors do the same...
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Can they remove one bottle and sell them as five packs?
@Hoss: that's an interesting idea for a loophole.
another thing that's really strange about PA liquor laws: in addition to a separation of booze & beer (state-owned liquor stores for liquor & wine; beer stores for beer), there are beer distributors & \"6-pack shops\". a beer distributor cannot be open past 8 or 9pm (i forget which) & when i lived there, they weren't open on sundays. but they are the only places you can buy cases & kegs.
a 6-pack shop can be open the same times as a bar (& bars often sell 6-packs to go), but this started to piss off the distributors, so they passed a law stating that you can't buy more than 192 ounces of beer/malt liquor at a time (which equals 12 pint-sized bottles of beer). so, in short, a 6-pack shop can't sell cases or 30-packs; only 2 6-packs or a 12-pack at once.
long post to get to the point, which is this: the loophole for getting around the 2 at a time 6-pack rule is to buy 2 6-packs, set them down outside, come back in, buy 2 more, etc., etc.
& this is why when i read your idea, i could totally see that happening in PA.
@catastrophegirl - brand new homeowner: Ocean City, NJ is a dry island, I think there's a few more. No bars, if you're caught on the beach drinking you get fined or jailed or beheaded, ionno. (You also have to pay for the priveledge to use the beach.) So across the causeway looks like the biggest den of depravity with tons of liquor stores lining the road. you can bring it in, you can drink it, but you can't sell it or be publicly drunk.
@mac-phisto: Well, I'm not sure it's a loophole per se, it's how the law works. There are a lot of bottle shops in downtown State College that actually have a line painted on the sidewalk, beyond which you must put the beer you just bought before heading back in to get some more. If some sort of PLCB dude was sitting watching people do that, he'd be fine with it because that's just how the law has been written.
It's kind of an example of a small version of how lobbyists work in Washington. You have these larger beer distributors that are able to \"lobby\" lawmakers to create favorable conditions for their businesses. Would you rather go to a bottle shop and make 3 or 4 trips to your car to buy beer that is, per unit, more expensive? OR would you rather go to a distributor and make one big trip to purchase beer that is, again, per unit less expensive?
@karmaghost: fellow nittany lion? i must admit, i spent a good portion of my refund money at sharky's (but not nearly as much as i spent on monkeyboys).
as stupid as the laws seem, there's times i miss the stupidity. in CT, there are no \"6-pack shops\". they sell beer in supermarket (but not on sunday or holidays) & most liquor stores (privately owned & also sell beer) close at 8pm.
makes it awfully difficult to make last-minute late nite plans. for this reason, i always stock a \"just in case\" 12-pack in my fridge.
@mac-phisto: not sure where in CT you are....but if you're remotely near the border, MA eliminated the sunday blue laws. Before this, if you lived within 5-10 miles of the NH border (technically a bordering state that sold beer on sunday) package stores could be open at the discretion of the chief of police.
I for one just go to the state owned NH liquor store down the block for my hard liquor and the shaw's for my booze
@sponica: yeah, NY is the same way, but both states are about 30-40 minutes from where i live.
the state legislature was looking at eliminating the sunday blue law to increase tax revenue, of course! (you pesky bay staters are stealing all our taxes, don't you know?) what's funny is that the industry association that represents liquor store owners is blocking the legislation! they tried the same thing a couple years ago when the state allowed stores to stay open until 9pm instead of 8pm.
@Hoss:
This is what I was thinking as well. The article, alas, does not clarify EXACTLY what the law says. As people are getting annoyed enough over this to take it to court, I'm thinking it's for the sale of all sizes of beer packages.
Otherwise, the self-made 5-pack, or simply selling 8-packs, would have been a viable option.
It's an interesting situation, but we need a lot more information as to the law itself.
@Deranged_Kitsune: Ok, Apparently you can't buy anything less than a case -- seems pro-consumer to me!
Pennsylvania Liquor Code, Article IV, SECTION 441. DISTRIBUTORS' AND IMPORTING DISTRIBUTORS' RESTRICTIONS ON SALES, STORAGE, ETC., paragraph b: No distributor or importing distributor {that's Pennsylvanian for \"beer store,\" to you out of state types} shall sell any malt or brewed beverages in quantities of less than a case or original containers containing one hundred twenty-eight ounces or more which may be sold separately: Provided, That no malt or brewed beverages sold or delivered shall be consumed upon the premises of the distributor or importing distributor, or in any place provided for such purpose by such distributor or importing distributor. Notwithstanding any other provision of this section or act, malt or brewed beverages which are part of a tasting conducted pursuant to the board's regulations may be consumed on licensed premises.
@Hoss: You can buy beer only by the case from beverage stores (read: beer stores). Delis and bars can sell beer in 6 packs. You can also beer as individual bottles at delis and bars.
@bonzombiekitty: so it sounds like instead of convenience stores needing to add a place for people to drink beer, they need to add a deli case?
@catastrophegirl - brand new homeowner:
Not just a deli case - they need a license to allow people to purchase and drink alcohol on-site, like a restaurant.
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Since the only why I can buy beer without spending a fortune per bottle is to buy it by the case, I'm now a bloated, belligerent alcoholic. Thank you, Pennsylvania!
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The law says places that sell six-packs must let customers drink it at the place of purchase.
...wat?
How did that law even get passed in the first place? They say the law is obsolete but that implies the law actually made sense at some point.
@Rectilinear Propagation: the point of the law was to limit the licensing for 6-pack shops to reduce competition for distributors. the exact thing distributors didn't want was every corner store selling beer (for obvious reasons) & i suspect it's a large reason why the law was upheld. the distributors hold a lot of weight in that state.
@mac-phisto: Bingo. PA had crazy liquor laws originally because they were this \"quaker\" state with different views than perhaps other parts of the country. Therefore, over time the way beer and liquor was sold was shaped by these laws. However, as time advanced and the laws became clearly more and more ridiculous in hindsight, nothing was done to make alcohol sales more flexible because a.) there is an established set of businesses that would not benefit from, say, grocery stores being able to sell beer and b.) the PA government makes a shitload of money on the sale and taxation of liquor in its State Stores.
PA will always have these crazy laws, not because they have different morals than other states, but because they have this long-ingrained system that would be a pain-in-the-ass for lawmakers, businesses, and the government to overhaul.
@Rectilinear Propagation: I think every law should have an expiration date (\"never\" would not be an option). Then whatever legislative body that passed it would have to re-evaluate it every once in a while. Then they can update it, continue it, or drop it. Not only would this reduce strange, obsolete laws like this, it would put a sort of theoretical limit on the number of laws any level of government could produce. I mean, you can only go over so many laws each year. It would mean instantly small, unobtrusive government!
@cabjf: That's not a bad idea, actually, although there are some laws that shouldn't be subject. (Does the state *really* need to review every ten or 100 years to see if murder, rape, and arson are still illegal?)
@Etoiles: I don't see the harm in making them sit around and say, \"Ok, rape: still illegal\" if it forces them to reevaluate laws such as this one.
@chuckv: I don't think you guys realize the amount of work this would entail. Just to pick a random example: the Criminal Code of Canada has ~850 sections (not counting schedules, but lets keep this simple). They would have to get through something like 20 sections a week in order to get through the whole thing in a year. Assuming even a basic analysis along the lines of 1. How has the law been used? 2. Frequency of use? 3. Average penalty? 4. Why was the law created in the first place? 5. Is it being used in a manner consistent with it's purpose? etc., etc., etc. Collecting and analyzing the data alone would be a full time job for a team of people and given that noone would want to pay for this it would quickly devolve into rubber stamping leading to ridiculous and arbitrary decisions.
@mizike: It would cut down on laws that are obsolete (it's a criminal offense in Oregon to send telegrams out of order), passed due to stupid fads (illegal to shine a laser pointer at a police officer), or discriminatory (sodomy laws before Lawrence v. Texas was decided).
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@varro: I think it's still a good idea to keep people from shining laser pointers at police officers, as long as the punishment is minimal. Don't need people freaking out police officers into thinking they're being targeted.
And let me be the lone voice in the wilderness: booze sucks. Good on Pennsylvania. :P
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@mizike: \"rubber stamping leading to ridiculous and arbitrary decisions\" As opposed to the absence of arbitrary and ridiculous laws we have now.
@MauriceCallidice: It seems to me like one set of people making ridiculous and arbitrary decisions is better than two sets of people making ridiculous and arbitrary decisions. It's not like they're going to cancel each other out you know.
So if you have to drink at a bar, I guess drinking and driving is a welcomed thing.
I moved to Texas a few years ago, and I'm in a dry county. Bet you didn't know they still had those eh?! Well, all the bars in the area have to have their own \"private\" memberships in order to let you in and allow you to consume alcohol on the premises. Thankfully at least of the few of the clubs use the same membership, so you only have to pay the first time you join in a few different places. Oh yeah, on Sundays, nada here either...
i hate religion, it's like a frigging prison for the mind for people of limited intelligence.
@grapedog: or take ocean grove, NJ which is owned by the methodists (sp?). Also dry, and anti-gay - they wouldnt let a gay couple use the boardwalk for a civil union... they sued, and NJ said, \"well if you consider it a PRIVATE boardwalk (their excuse) then you owe us back taxes! BAM!
poiint 1 for atheism.
@grapedog: NC still has the private club rule, but most places just put you down as the 'guest' of the person [complete stranger] who walked in in front of you. or sells you an annual membership with a temporary card at the front door for around $3-5. if you lose the card before the next time you go, you buy a new annual membership for the cost of the cover, again.
there are still some dry counties here as well. and one place i've been they sell mixers in the grocery store but no liquor in the county and you can only buy beer [three brands] at the golf club pro shop for about $25 a 12 pack.
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@grapedog: I think this might change now that states have such high budget deficits. If places are allowed to sell later on regular days and on Sundays, they will generate more tax income for the state.
Money trumps religion any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
@grapedog: Don't hate on the religion, hate on the people that need the government to enforce their religious beliefs for them.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-1114821-100x100.png\")
@tekkierich: Whaaa?? And not be able to make snarky, sweeping statements about religion and its adherents? Now what fun would that be?
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I don't believe you can buy beer anywhere in PA unless its in a liquor store. Supermarkets can't even carry it. I saw the most bizarre thing in some of the other states I have visited, like drive through liquor stores.
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Beer can only be purchased in distributorships in PA ... and then ONLY by the case.
Not in the state owned liquor stores.
@AMetamorphosis: Thats not entirely true. For 6 packs you go to a store called \"bottle shops.\" They are different than distributors, and are open much longer.
@SrsRevo17:
Yeah, we have a few of them even named: \" six pack to go \" but I believe they have to sell so much in food sales in order to offer this service ... much like the bars where you can only buy two six packs @ a time ...
Isn't our PA booze laws fun ???
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@gqcarrick: You buy beer in PA by the case or keg from a beer distributor. You can buy 6 packs to go (2 at a time) from bars. Liquor is sold from a liquor store, also called a State Store because it's run by the PLCB. Liquor is not sold at a beer distributor and beer is not sold at a state store.
When you grow up in PA you're used to the law and just move on with life. There's plenty of places to buy it.
@CFinWV: \"When you grow up in PA you're used to the law and just move on with life. There's plenty of places to buy it. \"
You're right, I was born and raised in PA and got so used to the distributor/state store method that I got all kinds of screwed up when I moved to MD.
What's even weirder is that in State College, PA, the distributors close at 7pm during the week and 9 pm on Fridays (and some on Saturdays, all closed on Sunday). But a simple 5 minute drive to Boalsburg gets you a distributor open til 11. Kindof ironic that the borough with restrictions like that is also home to the first Wegmans in PA to sell beer...
@bradzacchero: You know what's funny? In the case of Wegmans, they had a lot of opposition from bottle shops and distributors in the area when they were applying for the liquor license. But guess who provides Wegmans with all their beer at the State College location? All 3 or 4 of the local beer distributors that were against the license in the first place.
@CFinWV: \"When you grow up in PA you're used to the law and just move on with life. There's plenty of places to buy it.\"
I'm in Ontario and it sounds basically the same, we have the beer store (where you get beer, anything from a 6 pack to a keg), the liquor store (where you get liquor / wine / six packs of beer), and wine stores (where you get wine). It's not like it's rocket science yet anyone who's not from here can't wrap their heads around it and think that it's the most confusing system imaginable.
@mizike:
Don't forget the minimum price laws (and that some cheap beers actually have to charge more than they want to because of it) and that offering any sort of discount or \"deal\" on booze (eg: \"Tuesday is TWO FOR ONE beer night!\") is illegal. Those laws might be more common outside of here than I think, though.
Though, also as someone from Ontario, I don't find it odd. But I can see it being odd for anyone who buys beer with their groceries or down at the local corner store. And a bit of a privacy violation for them, too, since unlike buying at a grocery store or corner store, when you are visiting a liquor store there's quite honestly only one thing you're buying, unless you want a new corkscrew...
@mizike: Well in NY you can get beer right from the grocery store, liquor and wine you get from a liquor store. Sounds a lot more convenient than going to three different stores.
@gqcarrick: I hate having to go to 3 different stores. If you want to buy wine and liquor that's the state store. If you need a case/keg that's the beer distributor. If you just want a 6 pk, hit up a bar or restaurant (anywhere with a liquor license).
can't even drink away my sorrows! :)
@CFinWV: Actually the six pack thing should be edited to \"bars and restaurants with the proper license.\" Still only two at a time. A lot of places will let you buy 2... go put it in your car, come back and buy 2 more. Especially helpful on days when the beer distributors are closed and you needed a case.
@CFinWV: If you're going to buy more than two six packs, you may as well go to a state store, unless it's closed of course. You can buy cases as small as 12, and it's cheaper to buy in bulk.
@gqcarrick: Wegman's is a supermarket. They are allowed to sell it because they have a Cafe in their store.
@gqcarrick: North Carolina had those drive through liquor stores. Brew Thru's... Ridiculous...! They had tons of them near the beaches, so you could hop in your car, shoeless and shirtless, pick up a case or two of beer(after finishing what you originally brought with you) and head back to the beach or wherever. That was about 6 years ago I saw those stores, that was the deciding lynchpin for realizing the steady decline of our society.
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@grapedog: I remember drive-through liquor stores in Florida, but I haven't seen a single one in my area of North Carolina. Must all be out by the beach!
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Devil's advocate:
It's not the court's duty to determine if the law is logical or silly. It is their job to determine ONLY if the law is constitutional.
It is the legislators' duty to pass good laws, and repeal silly ones.
So don't blame the court here. Blame the state legislature.
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@Hoss: That says that distributors can't sell beer in quantities less than a case and they can't serve beer on premises. WTF does the court think it has to do with convenience stores. Granted the \"provided\" is tricky, but it seems clear that the legislature's intent was just to stop warehouses from cutting in on bars and liquor stores business by circumventing licensing and zoning.
@Murph1908: \"Blame the state legislature.\"
...because they've been legislating as if they've been downing six-packs in convenience stores.
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Sorry Pennsylvania, you get no sympathy from me. I went to school just outside of Philly, and sure you can't buy beer at the grocery store, or a convenience store, but you guys have beer distributors, who carry a much wider range of beers.
@Skyoodpov: It's true, most distributors do carry a wide-variety of beers. However, while their selection is way better than, say, your typical NY gas station, it's on par with, and actually less diverse than, most NY Wegmans stores I've been to.
@Skyoodpov: I prefer PA's system to the more liberal system that's in effect here in MD. In my experience alcohol (booze and beer) is cheaper in PA than in neighboring states, and beer distributors have a MUCH better selection than liquor stores here in MD. The whole idea of buying a 6 or 12-pack was foreign to me when I moved here to MD - why would I buy 12 packs when I can buy cases of 24 and save a few bucks?
That said, I'm sure the whole beer distributor/state liquor store system is frustrating for someone who didn't grow up with it. Frankly, I kind of like all the differences in the liquor laws between the states. It helps give each state it's own little personality.
PA's system sucks balls if you're into really good beer, like Belgians. PA beer distributors don't have cases of Gulden Draak or something, & if they did, they'd be like $100.
@ingenieur: The thing is, I am into really good beers: I even brew my own. I think my PA experience has been skewed though - I lived close to one of the better distributors in the state - Westy's in Camp Hill (I grew up in the Harrisburg area). I'm in MD now, and when I buy a 6-pack of Sammy Smiths Oatmeal Stout I can't help feeling ripped off, knowing that I'd pay ~15-20% less per bottle if I got a case back home. Still, I know that my tolerance of the PA system is pretty unique and I don't think my experience with it is typical.
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@ingenieur: Yeah, having lived in MD and PA and being lover of real beer, I can't see how anyone can claim PA beer distributors have a better selection. Because the beer distributors in PA must sell by the case, I don't think I've ever seen more than say 60 kinds of beer sold at any of them. And once you account for the American pilseners, you might have 20 imports and microbrews to choose from. It is nice to get some of the PA beers at a decent cost - like Bells, or Yeungling. But if I want to get Dogfish Head 90 Minute IPA I'm looking at paying $35 because I have to buy a case (fortunately you can get a good deal on DFH 90 at the above mentioned Wegmans) And forget about getting one of DFH's super-premium beers which often run in $10-$12 per four-pack range, or even as high as $10 per single bottle - I'm not gonna spend $200 on a case of beer because I want to try a single bottle.
Head to Corridor Wines and Spirits (PDF of beer list [www.wineaccess.com] ) just off the Baltimore Washington Parkway and walk up to the WALL of single bottles of microbrews then tell me where in PA there is a distributor that carries even a quarter of those beers.
@CyGuy: Man, I really like that DFH Raison D'Etre. It's a $9/6-pack approximation of my favorite beer, Kasteel Donker, which is like $18/4-pack.
Thanks for the Corridor Wine & Spirits shout, I didn't know about that place, & it turns out I live 10 miles away from it. Word!
@Skyoodpov: Yes, they have a wide variety, but they have inconvenient hours, but they're also the only game in town, which is a prime recipe for price fixing and collusion.
WTF, lemme get this straight... you can buy individual bottles (40's and such), 12 packs, and cases, even those 30-packs Genny used to have... just not sixers. It's a retarded law, sure, but I just can't see getting all that mad about it.
@takes_so_little: Don't get hung up on the article's use of the term \"six packs.\" That's just what Sheetz was trying to sell, likely because selling single bottles was pointless and maybe they didn't want to make room for 12 packs in their coolers.
With the proper license, bottle shops/restaurants/bars/etc. can sell you anything that totals under 192 oz., or maybe it's 196oz., i can't recall at the moment.
@takes_so_little: No. You can't buy ANY beer in a convenience store or supermarket. You buy cases (and ONLY cases) from distributors, and anything smaller needs to be purchased from a bar or a restaurant.
@takes_so_little: I think Sheetz took it up with the court because 6 packs are a staple of convenience stores. It's probably hurting sales not being able to sell them.
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In Maryland it was really hard for restaurants to get liquor licenses. However, in most restaurants you could bring in your own wine or beer. So nearly every strip mall with restaurants had one liquor store in the center. So you'd first go to the liquor store, buy the beer or wine you wanted to drink, and then head to the restaurant. It worked, but it made no sense to me.
@GMFish: Yeah, that's not uncommon here in PA as well. Not only is it difficult to get a liquor license, but they're also very expensive to get and maintain. BYOA (A as in alcohol) is a popular thing that some smaller restaurants will do to keep costs down. Often such places will charge you a \"cork\" fee for each bottle of wine you bring in. It's usually 3 or 5 bucks.
@GMFish: WTF? That's AWESOME. But how to the restaurants stay in business? Alcohol has something like an 800% markup, which is where restaurants make all their money.
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@downwithmonstercable: Not quite 800% -- more like it's a 50% margin item (around a 100% markup), since most restaurants don't get a quantity discount from their distributors. In fact, I know of several items that are cheaper in my store than the frontline cost (price the distributor charges without a QD); they're low-to-zero margin items for us.
And, yes, we do have to occasionally chase restaurants out of the store when they try to buy booze through us for the savings (and by them doing so, risking both their license and ours in the process).
@GMFish: because I live in a dry county, a lot of the clubs in the surrounding area are BYOB too...so weird.
Thought Ours were silly in SC but wow.
The law isn't for sixpacks, its for any beer quantity smaller than a case. And for cases of beer you have to buy them from a distributor. It's just as silly as the Oklahoma law, where I used to live, that allows beer in convenience stores, but it has to be lower than 3%abv, hence the OK+ on all beers over that amount.
@Cj Trexler: Yeah, I've heard of those laws regarding alcohol content before. Those strike me as the most ridiculous in the nation. I can't even name you one beer that has <3% alcohol and if I could, I'd never bother drinking it.
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I have family in Philly and Bucks county and they just buy beer in NJ. And PA also has a rule about not selling beer on Sunday, which is conveniently when my family needs to drink the most. I'm sure MD, OH, NY, and WV get their fair share of PA residents too. Sucks about those who live in the middle of the state though.
@groupie: It's for those reasons that, technically, it's illegal to transport alcohol across the border into PA (without the proper permits, of course). I've never heard of anyone actually getting slapped with a fine or jailtime for doing it, but I'm sure it's one of those things they have to protect local PA businesses and use whenever they decide its necessary to lay the smack-down.
@karmaghost: Back when MA had blue laws, they gave up if you lived within 5-10 miles of a state border of a state that sold beer/wine/liquor on Sundays. Pretty sure the law had that provision because the local package stores were losing a LOT of business to people just driving over the border to NH...then those customers were lost permanently.
To this day, whenever my aunt goes to visit my grandmother and grandfather in NH, she stocks up at the NH state liquor store. Prices can't be beat. And the hours are fairly reasonable (depending on the location).
@groupie: if an individual store wants to sell beer on sunday they can do so from 12 noon to 5pm. If an individual state store wants to sell liquor on sunday, same deal.
The problem is that all the state stores located near my house opt to close on sundays, so I have to drive over to the one I know is open, wait in line outside the store for it to open, and then wait in line to pay with all the other people who just wanted a bottle of wine to go with their dinner tonight.
@groupie: They changed the law on selling beer on sundays. I believe distributors are allowed to sell beer after noon on sundays if they want to. A lot of them have decided to stay closed though.
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Texas is Wet or Dry by county and precinct. It's always easy to tell when you've driven into a Wet county (or precinct): liquor stores on both sides of the road.
Also, Sunday: beer & wine sales are OK after noon, but no more booze until Monday.
Wow, glad I live in Colorado. We killed the no Sunday law not to long ago. We can buy our liquor 7 days a week, in the same store/bar. We can also opt for 3.2 beer in the convenience stores if the liquor store is closed. But you can't drink it on site next to the Slim Jim rack, you must take it home.
Something that still cracks me up. We are REAL hard on DUI's here, but we have drive-thru liquor stores everywhere. I realize that your not necessarily driving while drinking if you use such service, I just find it funny.
You say it's a \"bizarre, ancient\" law, but it is (unfortunately) a cornerstone of alcohol sales in Pennsylvania. We Pennsylvania natives know it well: wine and spirits are sold at state-run stores; beer is sold by the case at distributors; and the local bar will have six-packs available for purchase. Simple, easy to understand, and incredibly, freaking stupid.
Various retailers (Sheetz and Weis come to mind) have been purchasing liquor licenses from the state's liquor control board, which has been trying to liberalize alcohol sales within the stodgy old legal framework. They have been establishing separate \"eateries\" with the express purpose of selling beer. Sneaky, sneaky.
I moved to Ohio a few years ago and was oh-so surprised NOT to see children stumbling drunk in the streets just because I could buy a six-pack next to the bread aisle in Kroger. Now, try convincing the Women's Christian Temperance Union (yup ... still exists) and Pennsylvania's backward, redneck legislature that the precious kids will be safe if Sheetz sells beer. Good luck with that.
@captadam: First comes drunk children, then dudes marrying dudes, mandatory abortions, and, most terrible of all... they're going to take your guns. As you can see, a very slippery slope!
@takes_so_little: You forgot the part about dudes marrying the family dog, or the family car. Or BOTH family cars!
It gets worse - soon they're going to give all your guns to the gays, so they can force your daughter to have an abortion while watching them get married!
Alabama just this year passed a law allowing sale of beer with alcohol content of up to 13.9%abv. Previous limit was 6%. Though, sales are still restricted to container sizes no greater than 16 oz. Although, there are a few exceptions by individual county. Of course, you could always get wine and liqour. So, logic has never been a hallmark of state legislators. Nearly every state has or had strange and illogical alcohol laws on the books after the repeal of Prohibition.
As someone who lives in PA I thought I would comment on this. I too thought this was a stupid law when I first moved to PA about 20 years ago, but now when I travel I realize that it may be the most consumer friendly law ever. Unable to rely on the cheap profits of beer sales to support themselves PA convenience stores are astoundingly better than examples in other states. They are spotlessly clean, have a huge array of good food and every non-alcoholic drink in the world. Because no alcohol is around there are no loiterers. Because they were forced to be good enough to survive without beer the biggest PA chain WaWa is now rapidly expanding along the east coast. Personally I will be very sad if this situation changes. Beer is not really any harder to get in PA than anywhere else and if a couple of bucks a sixpack gives us the nicest convenience stores in the country then I say it is a small price to pay.
@ung: You have a point about Wawas being good enough to eat lunch at and not die. They're the best place for grab and go ice cream too.
@ung: You're describing Wawa, Turkey Hill, and Sheetz--the thing is, Sheetz sells beer in their non-PA stores, and they are nice and well stocked as the stores in PA.
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It was only a few years ago that PA began to allow the sale of alcohol on Sundays, and that's still in a limited capacity for the distributors and 'state stores.' During my college years in Philly, we ran over to NJ to get our booze on Sunday if we didn't stock up well enough for the weekend. I thought progress was being made. Oh well... eventually they'll get there.
Finally an article about this! I went to school in central PA and we could only buy 24 or 30 beer cases at a time, which is fine if you want to buy Natural Light but it was terrible if you wanted to try a different beer. The only way it was affordable was to split up a 24 with a few friends. You also cannot beer in the same store as wine/liquor. The wine/liquor stores are all owned by the state, which is fine I guess cause sometimes there were good sales. Maybe since I was in a college town, they would also record the UPC number of liquor bottles and your driver's license number in case the bottles ended up in the hands of underage students. Needless to say, there were many UPC-less bottles at school.
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@etu001: The whole UPC thing is fallacy. UPC codes are the same from item to item. (I am here in Harrisburg and did the same thing when I was younger, though)
You might wasn't to make a few non-expiring laws. You know, murder, rape, theft...
Argh, sorry I ment to reply to the person who said laws should have expire dates, no exceptions.
The way it work in PA is:
Liquor and Wine: Purchased at state store, open from around 9-9 most days, a limited number are open until 5pm sunday but the rest are closed. if you need liquor on sunday you can only get it by the glass at a bar. you cannot buy a bottle of liquor from a bar, and if you buy a bottle of wine at a bar or restaurant you cant leave with it.
Beer by the case or keg: purchased at a distributor, which usually has a wider selection and is usually open until 8 or 9, and maybe 5 on sundays. you usually cannot buy six or twelve packs here.
Beer by the 6 or 12: most bars have a cooler or some empty six packs to sell you unopened bottles to take home, however there is a limit to the amount you can purchase at one time. I've seen different stuff at different places, but the general rule is you can only carry out 12 beers (or 144 ounces) at a time. If you want to buy 4 cases worth you can, but you have to make trips to your car for every 12 beers, and then come back in and get 12 more. some places make you pay for them separately, and it always costs more to do it this way. Naturally, despite the fact that you must be able to consume beer on the premises to buy six packs, you usually can't buy a six pack and then plunk down at the bar to drink it. You CANNOT buy 30packs at a bar, since there would be no way to carry out 12 at a time without opening it.
The reason all these zany rules stay on the books is money. The Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board sells all the wine and liquor in the state, and they have agents and buyers who travel and purchase wine in large lots for resale. Prices on wine are very reasonable, and net a lot of income for the state. The people who own distributors (for beer by the case) pay for a specific license to do so (in the tens of thousands of dollars per year), and most dont have the equipment to display, store and sell six packs. they are more like a warehouse with a walk-in cooler, and space is a premium because it determines how much they can stock. bars pay for the privledge of selling sixpacks, and many have paid to install special cooler displays for six-pack sales. There was debate about letting distributors sell sixpacks as well, but both the distributors and the bar owners didn't want it. Distributors mostly didnt want the added cost and space of installing a cooler and display case for sixpacks, and bar owners didnt want to lose business to the distributors after they had already paid for the ablity to sell sixers.
Honestly though, its not hard to get drunk in PA if you really want to. you just might have to settle for paying a little more on sunday
And that, my friends, is why we love Wegmans . . .
[www.pennlive.com]
\"Beer enthusiasts and curious shoppers alike steered their carts today toward the newest section at Wegmans in Silver Spring Twp. -- the beer aisle. There they encountered something never before experienced in a midstate supermarket: 150 imported, domestic, Pennsylvania, craft and microwbrews beers for sale.
\"This is so civilized,\" said Deb Steeley of Lower Paxton Township.
Wegmans officially launched beer sales today, although shoppers were able to purchase the beverages as early as Tuesday while the staff assembled displays.
Earlier this month, the Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board approved a restaurant liquor license for the supermarket. Shoppers can purchase up to two six-packs of beer to go or single bottles for consumption in the store's Market Cafe.
\"Don't you think it's about time Pennsylvania treats us like grown-ups? Aren't we old enough to buy beer?\" said Richard Price of Hampden Township.\"
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No one's made a \"Three Sheetz to the wind\" joke yet? Consider it done, with my apologies.
Haha, you think that's the only wacky thing about PA beer law...here goes:
You may only buy cases at beer distributors. Small stores may only sell 12 and six packs or individual beers. You are not allowed to purchase more than 12 beers at those establishments. Thus, if you want to buy say three six packs, you must buy two, go to your car and put them in there, go back inside the store and buy the other 6 pack. Funny thing is, you can do this all night long if you want, as long as it's not more than 12 beers at a time.
The smaller beer amounts are sold in places like delis. As a result, places like Wegman's groceries were able to circumvent the law since they have a deli section in their grocery stores.
This sheetz, which I live near, actually has a place for folks to sit down and eat.
Every law should be reviewed every 10 years to make sure it still makes sense in today's context.
hey consumerist readers, your friendly plcb clerk here. pa's laws may be \"crazy,\" but because of them i have a job and can afford to go to college. ;]
i can answer any questions anyone has, haha.
Thanks for picking up on this. As others have said, in PA you can only by 6-packs at bars or \"bottle shops.\" You have to go to a beer distributor to get anything more than a 12-pack. Liquor and wine sales are monopolized by the state, meaning you have to go to a \"state store\" to get them.
All I'm asking that I can buy all 3 of these items (beer, wine and liquor) in any quantity I want in one location. It doesn't even have to be in a conveinent store. I wish PA would adopt better alcohol laws like some of our neighboring states who are also consuming alcohol in the 21st century.
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It shocked the hell out of me when I was down there that you can't buy beer in the supermarkets and they have some sort of Soviet style state run stores to buy other forms of alcohol from. It really is some sort of backwards hick state.
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In KS at least you can buy mixers in the liquor store, but as there is a law that says no non-alcoholic beverages may be sold in a liquor store, mixers are all 1% or so alcohol. (also, we just got Sunday sales!)
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Isn't this just to try and keep the Steelers fans from getting even crazier on Sundays? ;-)
Follow the money. Who benefits? I guarantee that with a little digging, you can find a taxation and/or profit motive to explain why these laws exist.
That law ranks right up there with Oklahoma where beer 3.2 ABW or higher is only sold at room temperature in liquor stores.
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The reason PA has maintained their bizzare liquor law structure has nothing to do with any perception of public safety. Rather, it's been kept that way because the retailers (beer distributers and tavern owners) are quite happy with the status quo. They don't want the competition from mega-marts and major convenience store chains.
Now why it was setup that way in the first place is beyond me.
@Quake 'n' Shake: Actually, the laws screw the tavern owners in different ways...
When you're a tavern, you basically have ONE place to buy beer. You zone's ID(Independent Distributor). There's I believe 13 zones in PA. And ALL beer in PA goes through one of these 13 places. Even the small ma & pa distros. They buy their beer through on of the 13 IDs.
What's wrong with that? The ID decides what they are going to carry. Anheuser Busch has exclusive deals with IDs to only carry certain beers to sell to bars. Go though some parts of PA and wonder why it's the same crap on tap. It's not because that's what people really WANT to drink, it's because that's the only crap the bar CAN sell.
Now, there are some agreements between IDs to deliver beer to their zones. But they make it cost prohibitive to do so. It's why when you DO find a bar that has a bunch of beers on tap, it's like $5-$6 a beer. It's not because they want to fleece the customers, it's because it cost them a boatload of cash to get it. And with minimum delivery requirements, unless you specifically sell a lot of it, the beer will spoil before you sell it all anyways.
Oh and what do IDs charge for beer? Whatever the hell they want. They don't have standard pricing. One tavern can buy the same keg of beer for $X, and sell the same keg to the next bar a block away at $X+Y. It's a racket gangster's in from the 1920's would be proud of.
1. You can get a 40, six pack, or twelve pack for take out only from random places such as pizza shops but NEVER gas stations or grocery stores. You are not permitted to carry more than a 12 pack at a time through the front door of the take out joint. So if you want to buy a case, you have to buy one 12 pack, take it out to the car, and then buy another 12 pack in a totally separate transaction.
2. Wine and liquor is only sold as state owned stores.
3. Cases and Kegs are only sold at beer distributors.
From State College, PA...
Here are some other fun facts for those of you that don't know the funny PA laws:
- You cannot buy more than 192 ounces of beer at a 6 pack shop at a time. That means 2 six packs and a 40. You can however take it to your car and come back in as many times as you want.
- You can buy as many cases of beer as you want at the distributor.
- You can only get liquor and wine at the \"state store\". (ie - you can't get liquor/wine at the same place you get beer).
- Having beer available at Sheetz and Wegmans is a huge victory in PA - even if you can't buy pickles and beer at the same time because the pickles are not part of the \"restaurant\".
Maryland's got an interesting mix of booze laws. In southern MD, I think you can get 6-packs & large beers in convenience stores, including gas stations. In my county, you can only get alcoholic beverages at license liquor stores, which have Sunday & late hours. In Montgomery County, a \"deli\", including large grocers, can sell beer & wine. Only county-run stores, a la ABC's, sell the good shit. And they're closed on Sundays. When I lived in that county, best believe I went elsewhere for my booze runs.
I agree with the Supreme Court decision. If this guy wants the law changed, he should lobby the Legislature. The Supreme Court is simply going to uphold the law as written, as long as no one's rights are violated.
@Biggbrother: Forcing store-owners to allow people to drink beer on their property is a violation of their rights, which is especially egregious since it does not promote the public good (usually drinking is expressly forbidden). The law is not being enforced correctly, and the court is not interpreting it correctly. You are right that the legislature could quickly fix things, but I think they are reluctant to officially admit that they are morons
I live in Philadephia and i buy beer at the convenience store all the time. They are not chains like a Sheetz or 7-11, but they are more convenience store than bar.
Go and try to buy a beer in a NYC liquor store. Talk about fucktardery.
When I was in Pittsburgh, I was told this and didn't believe it...so we went to a beer distributor, and they only had the gigantic cases. No 40's or six packs. When I inquired where one could buy smaller quantities, I was told \"at the Pizza Hut.\" Blew my mind.
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For a modern, occidental country that has entered the 21st century, the U.S. still has an awful lot of antiquated liquor-related laws. This particular law is monumentally stupid in that it serves no known, useful purpose to anyone. But there are plenty of other laws which are just as stupid and antiquated.
In my state of CT, for example, you cannot buy beer or wine in a store on Sundays or after 9pm at night. You can, of course, go to a bar or restaurant and get totally smashed, if you like ... but you cannot bring a six-pack or bottle of wine home on a Sunday.
This is one of the last surviving vestiges of CT's famous \"blue laws,\" a Puritan-ordained piety code which once had been forced on the entire colony (later, state), even those who were not themselves Puritans.
It's time these and all the other alcohol-related piety laws around the US were repealed. The Pilgrims no longer control the country, and haven't for a couple centuries, so their piety laws need to go. Now.
I live in PA. You can buy six and 12 packs at any bar or six pack store, not state run liquor stores or by the case at beer distributors. Just because you cant buy beer at a easy-mart or grocery store, does not mean its not easy to buy beer, it just means you have to be 21. There are more bars than gas stations anyway. people are just not used to buying take-out beer from a bar, but its logical.
years ago I remember having to buy a six-pack from Pizza Hut because of this silly law.
Wow, beer in convenience stores? What will they think of next!
I am from PA and you know, it isn't so bad. If I need a large amount of beer, I just go to the distributor. If I need a 6-pack, I walk into a bar or one of our local pizza places and buy it, which happen to be across the street from the convenience store anyway, so it isn't that big of a deal. I live in NC now where you can get beer and liquor anywhere, but I still don't find it that much of a pain when i go home to PA
I wish Consumerist readers would try to be more informed before they spout.
In PA, you can purchase alcohol 3 different ways.
First if you want wine or spirits you have to go to a State Store run by PA. Even Internet sales are blocked to PA (hopefully that will change soon).
If you want beer you can either purchase case or keg quantities at a beer distributor. If you want less, you can go to a 6 pack shop or a restaurant or bar with the proper license. There you can buy up to 128oz of beer (2 six packs).
(Well, you can also go to a microbrewery to buy their own product but that's a different issue).
That's it - no other places. Why is this the case? First, PA State Store system is the largest purchaser of spirits in the country - this is $$$ for the government. Also the State Store is a huge patronage system for relatives and such. With these 2 forces, no much in the way of reform has been able to be passed.
In the case of beer, the beer distributors make obscene profits giving them substantial dollar to spend on lobbying resulting in a very powerful special interest.
The tavern and restaurant owners lobby is much weaker and so rules and regulation are tilted way in the favor of distributors.
As for that 1 Sheetz (and some Wegmans by the way) they were able to finagle a beer license by \"separating\" their restaurant operation from their grocery operation. A sit down eating establishment that provides at least 90% of it's income from food can also sell beer by the bottle (or six pack). It's this \"artificial\" separation of food and groceries that has the tavern lobby eating at them and so they are putting their lobby money towards fighting that.
I don't think the beer distributors could care a crap about either. Sheets and Wegmans has to buy their beer from a PA distributor anyway to sell it. This is why it cost an obscene amount for beer at food and bar establishments.
That's the story in PA. If anyone outside of PA wants to express sympathy it would be most appreciated.
Hey this law makes sense, a sober PA resident acts like a huge jerk. They sure as hell don't need alcohol added to the mix.
case in point, eagles fans.
Come to South Carolina, in most parts you can't buy anything before 1pm on Sunday, let alone Satan' juice.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-46683-100x100.png\")
So, you make the \"designated drinking area\" for the store one of the stalls in the bathroom or a 6 inch square area in the beer freezer.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-948267-100x100.png\")
I grew up in PA and the laws there were always F'd up. We always went to NY state to buy sixpacks. Whenever I go back to visit, I just pick up two cases of YeungLing(the greatest beer ever made) from the drive thru beerbarn and I'm good to go.
This is why people that expect sweeping Federal legislation legalizing marijuana crack me up. We can't even get BOOZE laws right.
Yawn...here is an idea. Change the law. Weird that if people get off their butts they can attempt to create change. I guess it is just easier to sit here and bitch about it.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-356584-100x100.png\")
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-1148718-100x100.png\")
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-25844-100x100.png\")
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-267097-100x100.png\")
Gods bless you Sheetz. Besides your Schmuffins and awesome stores which are open 24 hours a day and let me get chili cheese dogs at 3am while in college there, y'unz are helping Pennsy people buy their beer in smaller quantities.
@NegativeNelli_GitEmSteveDave: Wawa > Sheetz
@TheStateOnDVD!_GitEmSteveDave: Oh sweet god. I'm from Ohio, but all my aunts uncles, my mom, and grandparents are from PA. The biggest part of the dialect they have kept is \"y'unz\". It makes no sense to me.
At least \"y'all\" is a contraction for \"you all\", what in the world is \"y'unz\"? You... uns?