@NeverLetMeDown: Guess what? I'm not talking about head space, I'm talking about you bouncing off my kneecaps when you recline into them, and then continuing to bounce on them as if doing so will somehow dislocate my hips or force my legs to be shorter (sadly, it does not)

As far as your choice to leave your scalp 1/2 inch from my nose, that's your "right", as it is my "right" to sneeze on it four four hours straight.

I love "rights" - don't you?

@Trai_Dep: Guess what, Trai-Dep - there were no reclining seats on the wagon train. Oh god, what would you have done.

Furthermore, this has nothing to do with your goddam scalp being two inches from my nose, it has to do with your entire body weight pushing my upper legs into my hips using that metal bar on the seat pocket to leave bruises and to knock my old basketball injury back to life.

Yeah, I guess it IS my fault for being "too tall" and feeling "overly-entitled" to be able to walk without limping after a four hour flight. My bad. Perhaps I should have surgery to take four or five inches out so that my too long legs don't impinge on your freedom to lie in comfort in my lap any more.

But yeah, until I have that surgery, I will continue to leave my legs where they are and to complain when short jerks like you bounce on my knee caps when your seat hits them and won't go back any further.

When I had medical needs for particular seat space, I got there ass early and made sure I was first in line. (Or close to it.) If I suffered, it was my own fault for being a slowpoke.

@NeverLetMeDown, Mina_da_mad_child: Look, it is simple.

A) You don't recline. You are uncomfortable. I am more uncomfortable (because I'm a tall fella crammed into a tiny seat).

B) You do recline. You are slightly less uncomfortable. I am in INTENSE PAIN.

I feel comfortable saying that if you willingly and knowingly choose option B, you are a sociopath.

May the deity of your choice reincarnate you as a 6'7" obese man.

As long as you don't mind my knees in your back, because I have no other place to put them.

Seriously, people... have some frigging courtesy towards your fellow human beings and quit being so damned greedy and self-centered.

As for reclining.. I don't need the recline guard.. my knees are jammed up so hard against the seatback that they do the job for me. The good laugh I get when someone actually tries to recline and can't almost offsets the pain.

That's why I was responding to wgrune, not to moostrength.

Lrn2followathread.

Your personal space does not include the space my seat takes up when it's any designed-for position, which includes reclined.

If you don't want me to recline, make it worth my while. I'm happy to entertain offers. About $20/hr makes it worthwhile. Otherwise, (a) shut up and stop whining, or (b) buy economy plus (when available) or first.

Nope, the seat recline is _my_ space.

As for the Knee Defender, you may have gotten lucky, but the airlines all prohibit their use, and you can bet I would have raised holy hell with the airline if their staff failed to enforce policy.

Basically, you're just a self-righteous jerk who believes that everyone else should sacrifice for your convenience. Nice try, though.

Although there might be some people so morbidly obese that that is a problem :)

But the airlines are not being altruistically health-conscience here, they're just being greedy. So screw them :)

that the seats are getting smaller as americans grow ever larger... how inappropriate

Oh sure, we bitch and moan about the latest rort, but tomorrow the lines at checkin will still be full, the food will suck, and the service will be sub-par.

We'll still go back even after that.

@floraposte: Didn't know they issued that, certainly my newspaper didn't issue any retraction that I remember seeing when they published that story.

Still, even if Airbus abandoned the idea themselves, that's not to say that an airline hasn't picked up where they left off and is developing the same tech to use of their short haul flights.

I mean, sure there may be resistance to the idea, but they've already proved people are willing to eat just about anything that the airlines do, so I don't see it as outside the realm of possibility.

I had a cunt on flight try to play that game with me before I bought my Knee Defender, back when I used to explain the situation and ask politely. The crew took my side: told her she had to move, or just not be able to recline. I don't *need* the Knee Defender to stop an inconsiderate person whom I've asked nicely not to recline.

By the way... the Knee Defender comes with a nice little card politely explaining the situation. Since purchasing it and using the card, I've never actually had a problem, and people aren't insensitive, self-righteous jerks.

Fatties are different. That's *my* space.

Not condoning this- but it was funny.

Couple flights back a guy across the aisle from me on a packed flight was in misery. He was at least 6-3. At the first lean back, he asked politely if the woman in the exit row in front of him would refrain from reclining, explaining how painful it was at his height. Her answer was to go back the rest of the way and put on earphones.

I am sure it was an accident that several cubes from his cup of ice ended up sliding down the back of the now sleeping woman's seat. A few minutes later, when the ice melted enough to reach her skin, she jumped up. He firmly shoved the seat back up and held it there till she got the message.

@Framling: Then you have the capacity to get royally cursed out for the entire flight, unless a flight attendent decides to move one of us.

I purchased the right to recline my seat, sorry that makes your flight uncomfortable. Next time, pay extra for the legroom, cheapskate

@Jaynor: My personal tactic is to just scream in agony. Gets the flight attendants' attention and generally they instruct the person in front of me to not recline.

They even gave me a little bag of ice once.

and I'm not going to lie to you. I have VERY little flesh on my knees and if they get bumped with a reasonable amount of force it is EXCRUCIATING. It hurts worse than when I broke my arm in the 3rd grade.

However, I don't have to resort to this tactic often since I always get Southwest business preferred tickets. Priority Boarding FTW!

Believe it or not, people once risked life and limb for months at a time, braving hunger, scalping, cannibalism and really perky girls in Gingham dresses to cross the country. Please keep this in mind for the four hour flight when someone avails themselves of a feature available to them.

Fly JetBlue whenever possible. Their regular coach seats are like the "Extra leg room" seats on another airline, so roomy. And their exit-row seats are made for 7-foot tall people, it's so roomy!

Lrn2read.

@ARP: @ARP: @ARP: I don't mean it to be elitist. I'm not a high-roller by any means. But air travel was a luxury in its early days. While it's admirable that it's affordable for most americans, it's obviously at the expense of service and comfort.
I took my first high-speed train in Europe last year. Comfortable, fast, and great scenery. Wish we had it here!

@NeverLetMeDown: I didn't pay for the space my knees are occupying? You know, the same space that you're for some reason trying to force your seat back into to gain a paltry 3 degrees recline?

Just because the seats can recline doesn't mean you're not a jerk for crushing my kneecaps. The seats also have the capacity to be repeatedly shoved by my recently crushed knees for the entire duration of the flight.

What we're saying is that your comfort isn't important enough to warrant causing us pain.

If the seats get much slimmer widthwise, even "average" people won't fit in them. We'll all have to sit sideways with our faces in someone's hair.

BTW - good for you! Me too! :)

@Pibbs: "South of the Border" reference FTW. I always loved the ads for that place, but my parents never stopped, despite my desperate begging. Apparently it sucks and I am missing nothing, but if I ever find myself driving through the Carolinas, I'm stopping, and that's that. Harumpf.

@NeverLetMeDown: While I'm very sorry for your inability to sit upright in a plane like everyone else, this is not a case where you have a right to impinge on my personal space (and my kneecaps) to satisfy your whims.

And, there isn't a flight attendant I've ever encountered who has suggested that I have to saw off my legs or dislocate my hips in order to accommodate someone who is afflicted with this horrible inability to sit in a chair. However, they have asked people to stop bouncing on my goddamn knees like idiots when their seat hits them and doesn't recline anymore.

@Jaynor:

How sadly childish of you.

@Batmanuel:
I like the toys on Virgin, but the seats are incredibly uncomfortable, I find. Agreed on Alaska. Hear you on assigned seating, but usually when I'm flying last minute it's full fare, so I can get one of the priority seats.

@Jaynor:

Wow, you must fit in very well with your other first grade classmates.

@NeverLetMeDown:

To each their own. My apologies in advance for accidentally sneezing all over your face ;)

@NeverLetMeDown:

I do - I call it the "Golden Monkey Fist"... also the "whoops I sneezed all over your face a few times".

@Trai_Dep: You finally got something right. One of George Bush's first executive orders after he took over from Clinton was to relax airport security and allow (even encourage) passengers to take box cutters onto airplanes.

I'm 6'5 and hate flying. Well, I love the idea of flying, and would do it all the time if not for the harsh reality of the suckitude of the crammed conditions in aircraft. Anyway, I flew JetBlue for the first time in my life last month, and also for the first time in my life, I came off the plane without a single bruise on my body. It wasn't just the extra legroom (in fact, I don't think their seat pitch was more than an inch longer than other carriers), but the seatbacks themselves seemed to be a little more intelligently designed, lacking several metal bars and braces that absolutely maul any unfortunate fool who has the audacity to grow past six feet tall.

fwiw, the flight attendants also seemed to be missing that utter dismay for life that typifies the air travel experience AND the HVAC system worked, too. I was so impressed I'll preferentially use them for the foreseeable future.

The major carriers have added so many fees and cut so many amenities that flying on Southwest seem like a luxury now. I do everything in my power to make sure that I take Southwest, Virgin, or Alaska when I travel on business. Flying the bigger carriers is has just turned into an unpleasant experience anymore.

The lack of assigned seating is actually really nice for me on Southwest, because it lets me book a flight at the last minute and I'll still get a good seat if I set a reminder on my phone to check in online as soon as the 24 hour window opens. With assigned seating I usually get stuck with a crappy seat if I book when I'll get the best prices.

@Mr. Kite:

Definitely the upsides.

@David Thatcher:

Or we could just raise airfares, and the middle class couldn't afford to fly. Deregulation has resulted in airfares that are about half what they were in the early 70s, in real terms.

@Berz:

I just can't get past the lack of assigned seating and all the stops.

@morlo:

And the other way around.

@wgrune:

No need to punch anyone - the flight attendant will pleasantly inform you that I have the right to recline my seat.

@wgrune:

And I paid for a seat that reclines, so I can recline. Should I also be willing to squish into 1/2 of my seat because you want to put up the armrest and sprawl?

"As far as [you're] concerned" doesn't really apply here. If I have to, I'll call a flight attendant, and she'll side with me, every time.

@xkevin:

It was all about staff costs. The fuel savings don't really work, since they generate much more revenue from an occupied seat than the incremental fuel cost of hauling that seat and a passenger (if they didn't, then they'd lose money on every flight, no matter how many seats).

By dropping below 150 passengers, they could drop to 3 flight attendants, since you need 1 for every 50 passengers, or fraction thereof. Cut the FA costs by 25%.

@moostrength:

$1000 in gas to get from Columbus to LA? Thats around 2300 miles. Assuming gas around $2.50, $1000 would buy you 400 gallons of gas. 2300 miles using 400 gallons of gas gets you an MPG of less than 6. 20 is more realistic for average vehicles so it would cost less than $300 in gas. You could stay in a real nice hotel room halfway between the two and still be less than $800.

Oh, and try punching someone on an airplane and let us know how that works out for you.

@Jaynor:

That'll work, until I call the flight attendant, and she tells you to stop messing with my seat (and yes, I've done it, and yes, they will). Don't like me reclining? Buy my seat too, or sit in first.

What you're saying is that your comfort is more important than mine, so I should give up the comfort that I paid for just because you find it convenient. Nice try.

If you're in front of me recline away (I'm 6'2" - do I like it? No, of course not, but it's your right). If you're behind me, deal.

@TheSpatulaOfLove:

Insensitive clod? For using the space I paid for? Wow, you're arrogant. Would I be an insensitive clod because I refused to squeeze myself into 2/3 of my seat because the very fat person next to me would be more comfortable with the armrest up?

Basically, you're saying that your comfort is more important than mine, and that I should make myself uncomfortable for your convenience. No thanks. If you're in front of me, recline away. If you're behind me, deal with it.

@vladthepaler: Okay, how about a drone dragging a pilotless glider full of passengers behind it?

That's my next patent. This blog will be proof that I thought of it before any of you.

Since the Fly America Act applies to me (academic funded by grants that originate with the US Government), I'm actually not allowed to fly foreign carrier. I have to buy my tickets from US flag carriers.

What I can do is to do my damnedest to get code share flights with someone else operating the flight. Air Canada on a United ticket, for instance, was quite pleasant.

In any case, it's ultimately up to the airline ordering the aircraft what configuration the seats are in. That's why the same aircraft can be nice and roomy on one airline and a cattle car on another.

I remember about 10 years ago when American actually expanded leg room in their coach seating. They had TV commericials bragging about it.

PETA is pretty much opposed to the ethical treatment of people.

@weave: I sat in front of person one time, and did the same thing by asking if i could laen back. They limited me on my range for a long flight, but still managed to lean all the way back themselves. And she wasn't in need of the extra space, size wise. So, now, I just tell them I'm coming back to warn them if their legs are up or something. Unless they are big, then i still ask.

I don't know if i'd be comfortable flying on a predator drone.

@Pibbs: try Kansas, the flattest, most never endingest state in the US. it's almost impossible to not fall asleep on that drive

Seems exploitative but aviation is expensive. Just like any business, they will always look for ways to increase revenue. More passenger room is available in upper class but it costs more money. I guess it's a fair proposition as long as this is advertised at the time of booking.

@HiPwr: Lag in a remote aircraft is too great to allow it to be done, especially when in more remote areas. Theoretically (sp?) it would be a good idea, but there are too many factors to give to a guy sitting hundreds of miles away totaly control of an aircraft with hundreds of passengers on it.

@pecan 3.14159265:
But then I'd miss out on the "Golden Monkey Fist."

I used to be much more polite about this but found that I've lost all faith in the kindness and decency of my fellow man (most people wouldn't consider my request... one even called an attendant to complain about me asking).

Maybe I had a bad run... but the Golden Monkey Fist method works like a charm virtually every time.

I fly to Indonesia about once a year. After making that flight twice in Economy Deluxe, which would be an upgrade of Economy Plus for US flights, I fly in Business class. Yes I spent about twice as much to fly from Columbus to Jakarta for business class (US domestic flights are usually first class since there is no business class on smaller birds) but in my opinion it is well worth it. When I flew EE with Eva Air and Singapore Air, I was exhausted and cramped having endured 20 hours of flying. The last 3 years I've flown business class for at least the leg from LA to Taipei and back and I am so much better off for it.

Although I am huge by most Asian standards, I understand that if I am too big for the seats that they have I may need to purchase a second seat or a bigger seat, I don't think that's unreasonable either. The airline industry loses money hand over foot all the time. It's about $800 to fly from Columbus Ohio to LA in First Class. Considering driving would cost well over $1000 in fuel costs alone, and would take easily 2-3 days to do in a plane what takes 5 hours, I think for years airlines have been too cheap.

That being said, if some jerk put his fist into my back when I try to recline my chair, I think I would be putting my fist in their face.

Fat is a decision (no disrespect intended to rotund individuals, but it IS a choice). Height is not, unless you, NeverLetMeThink, have developed a safe, functional shrink ray.

I hope you're in front of me on my next flight. My discomfort will be worth it if I can make your flight miserable.

@NeverLetMeDown: True, but I don't think rail regional rail would serve truly small towns. They would serve mid-sized to larger cities and areas where there's enough people in an area, but not necessarily in a single place. For example, the Quad cities in Iowa/Illinois have enough people to economically justify putting a stop at one of those towns to serve that area.

@johnva: Amen, brother. There are few things as inconsiderate as the reclined seat on a plane.

@johnva: I'm 6'3" and I forcefully stop people from reclining in coach. I jam my carry-on between my seat and the seatback in front of me (my legs hide it well) until the plane is in the air and if I ever hear the click of the recline button I produce a move I'd like to call the "golden monkey fist" into the chair back to push it back up before it locks.

If the person in front of me gets annoyed I apologize and tell them there's nothing I can do... I enjoy having patellas.

@WarOtter: They've actually developed "seats" where you're litterally standing up almost with a form shaped backboard. They determined that if they used those types of "seat" on that new super-trans-continental plane, they would actually be able to cram on the maximum rated "capacity" for passangers.

It's just that unless the flight is real short (ie, Japan was considering it on their shorter domestic flights) it's not practicle (read, no one in their right mind would fly that way) to have "standing seats".

Go ahead and tilt your seat you insensitive clod. I'll make your entire flight just as miserable as it is for me. And no, I'm NOT going to buy another seat because the greedy airline chose to set their seats to the 'average' height of people in 1901.

@Porcelina: Either buy another seat and sit diagonally or business class. I'm 6'4, I know the struggle.

@rte148:

I paid for my seat just like you so as far as I am concerned that entitles me to not have you crushing my knees because you want to lean back another 6 degrees.

100LL is WAY overpriced, that much is true, but comparing light planes to an H2 (much less the H1 YOU mentioned) is a bit ridiculous. A Mooney Ovation, for example (high-performance single-engine retractable gear) burns around 12.5 gallons an hour cruising just over 200 mph around 15,000 feet. While it's certainly no Prius, I doubt you'd see 18 mpg in an H2 ever, and if you put enough horsepower in it to shove it down the road at 200 mph you'd be measuring in gallons per mile.

@TCama: yeah, 2-4 times per year. It cetainly helps that it's the hub :)

@Preyfar:

They're talking about seats that are less thick, not less wide, so there's more space between the back of your seat and the front of mine.

@HiPwr:

Partially, because if you lose the satellite signal to a predator, you've lost several million $ of hardware. If you lose the satellite signal to a commercial aircraft, you've got 100 or more dead customers. Kind of a different equation.

@balthisar:

If you don't want the person in front of you reclining their seat, then buy the seat in front of you too. The seat is built to recline, it's their right to recline. Or would it be OK if a very fat person next to you decided that he "needed" half of your seat as well?

@ARP:

While I'd just scrap the airline subsidies (unitl I start to see rural taxpayers subsidizing my choice to live in NYC, I don't see why I should subsidize theirs to live in rural areas), they could very well be the most cost-efficient solution, since the passenger volumes likely wouldn't be high enough to justify expensive high speed rail service. Think about Europe - want to go Paris-Marsailles? High speed rail. For trips to/from small towns? Local trains, or buses.

Little do they know or understand that every move they make like this draws them a step closer to extinction.

@Trai_Dep:

1. Carriers weren't in charge of security, it was an airport function.
2. It's not at all clear that the box cutters were even prohibited at the time.
3. Immunity makes sense, so long as they were following FAA guidelines. Anyway, the suits wouldn't have garnered much. AA and United would have filed for bankruptcy, and the victims' families would have been junior creditors, so there wouldn't have been much to claim.
4. I agree with you on the post-9/11 funding.

@pecan 3.14159265: The advantage of having my husband (6'1)next to me is that he can spread his legs out. But next time I travel solo I'll try to give a long legger reclining powers

@weave: That's great that you do that. I just don't how I'd react if someone small said no, just because they're an a-hole.

But I agree about the shoulder room; I have broad shoulders and long arms for a woman and when sitting in a row with two average-height men who both clearly did some strength work on their upper bodies, we all kept bumping and jostling and being generally in each other's way. That goes to the width of the seats.

@robotrousers: I remember when I was very young, I had to dress up to fly. My mom would make be put on a dress shirt and pants because...we were flying.

Your comment is elitist, but I like it. I guess if we had regional high speed rail, it could become that again.

@pecan 3.14159265: When the person in front of me reclines too far, I usually feel the need to get up during the flight and walk around. If I have to use their seat as leverage, so be it.

@Etoiles: +1 for "lava balls." That is absolutely going in my lexicon.

@LankanDude: I try to do that as well. Did you know that most foreign airlines will feed you no matter how short the flight is. London to Glasgow, I got a sandwich and some crisps (p-chips).

I don't know what we're going to do when we have to fly for our vacation next year.

@babyruthless: true, it's better for me to sleep drool on my husband than some random person (sorry about that sir)

@johnva: Some airlines are toying with different seat designs.

[gizmodo.com]

@Trai_Dep: So why isn't everyone screaming about how Bush is a commie? He bailed out the airlines.

Part of the problem is that there are few carriers to fill the regional routes. The government pays carriers big bucks to serve underserved markets (e.g. LaCrosse, WI) because there is no other realistic transporation options for them. Now, if they put in regional high speed rail, they could help solve a lot of problems: environment, take off delays, security, etc. But it's communist to do that. However, it's not communist to just give airlines lots of money to keep serving those markets.

@edwardso: I'm 5'4", and hardly ever recline. But my husband is considerably taller, and I kinda like sitting next to him. I mean, he might be more comfortable leg-room wise if he sat in front of me (and reclined) or behind me (and I didn't) but then we couldn't share gummi bears and watch cheesy movies on the laptop together. And that would be a shame.

I have a disability exactly like that, AND I'm tall. I wear ankle-foot-orthotics (carbon fiber lower leg braces) in order to be able to walk without falling because I have a neurological disease that causes progressive muscle wasting in the feet, ankles, legs, and knees. I also have a fair amount of chronic pain from this, and that is just worsened by not being able to move my legs and/or having people jam their seatbacks into my knees. Longer plane trips (over 3 hours) can be extremely excruciating for me (much worse than when I was younger and didn't have the chronic pain yet). It helps if I can get up and walk around a little bit every now and then, but that can be very hard to do on an overnight flight where people are blocking you in and are asleep, etc.

I wouldn't sue myself over this, as it's more of a temporary thing, but I could see signing onto a class-action lawsuit or something if some greedy lawyers wanted to file one. I also wonder about the possibility of lawsuits over things like increased risk of DVT from the cramped seating. If it could be shown that people have a higher risk of health problems because of the seating changes, you could probably sue.

@pecan 3.14159265: I must admit that I don't find air travel to be all that uncomfortable

@petermv: They're like Starbucks or Comcast. Their primary draw isn't the quality or price, its the fact that they're so convenient. They've got the major airports and the most direct flights.

So, like many companies, its their market size/power (especially on certain routes), not their actual quality of services that keeps them where they are.

Last trip I took with the family, we just rented a Van and drove. It took 3-4 times longer. The upside was we would have to rent a vehicle anyway, we had much more room, and could stop at interesting places. We easily saved $2K by channeling our inner Clark Griswold.

@xthexlanternx: Duh, you haven't read The Secret. Just visualize yourself with shorter legs, and it will be. If you can't make it happen, you're just not visualizing hard enough.

Ye of little faith.

@robotrousers: I'm 6'1" as well, and I can say first class is worth it. I don't even consider myself to be particularly tall, but I can't fit on Southwest flights now as it is... and those little ember air commuter jets... just forget about it. And when I shift around, I feel sorry for the person sitting in front of me, because I know they can feel my knees going into their seat backs-- especially when they recline. With thinner seats this problem could be worse!

I guess I'm going to need to take up yoga just to be able to fly, since I only fly first class for work or when I get the bump up upgrade (fortunately because I fly so often it routinely happens, but I've been flying much less this year and may lose my status. I've already been demoted from Executive Platinum to Platinum).

So you have developed some way to make yourself shorter and your legs less long?

Common courtesy goes a long way people.

@Berz: maybe it's just the dates or places I travel but I have never found a deal on southwest that frontier couldn't beat, and thats a layover flight vs. non-stop

@pecan 3.14159265:That's not a bad idea. I'm a 5 footer and almost never recline

@petermv: They've never been worth the money. They fill a niche in travel that will always be like this until the invention of 1. Safe Dependable VTOL flying cars, and 2. Automated piloting.

@Coles_Law: I believe my sarcasm meter is broken as well-time to get it adjusted.

Can we go back to air travel being a luxury? Please? Seriously, I'm 6'1". Maybe I should just suck it up and fly first class.

@Mondoz: You know, I'd actually prefer that, especially for longer flights.

The last long flight I took (15 hours) was completely and utterly miserable. The seats were cramped, I was freezing, people smelled bad, and the movie was Solaris. Oh, and because we couldn't all get seats close together, I wasn't really able to get help keeping my son, who was not at all tired, entertained. Now, he didn't bother anyone, but damn I was exhausted making sure that didn't happen.

Sleeping the whole way in a little tube? Niiiiiice...

What am I not considering?

@WarOtter: That train of thought got very disturbing very quickly. I approve.

Question is - slimmer thickness of the chairs/padding or actual seat space? If it's slimmer seats themselves that's fine, but if it's slimmer seat space this is going to have a negative impact on the overweight population. I'm fat (hey, I admit it) but I can still fit into any airline seat there is. But if the actual seat spacing is notched down (width of the seat cushion) I'm !@#$'d.

Granted, thanks to Consumerist's recent posting of 344pounds.com, that "overweight" problem has been going away slowly for me. :) It gave me the inspiration to get off my ass.

I'm just glad that most of my travel is in between metro DC and metro Boston, and I have my choice of JetBlue and Southwest whenever I want them.

I'm wondering if tall people or those with disabilities that don't allow them to squish like sardines (not obesity, but people with leg or knee problems) are going to sue the airlines for discrimination since they'll be forced to buy higher priced seats if this trend continues.

@ironchef: I believe RyanAir was threatening to do that:

[thelede.blogs.nytimes.com]

Direct quote: "We are flying aircraft on an average flight time of one hour around Europe," Mr. O'Leary argued, "what the hell do we need three toilets for?"

If we can fly Predator drones in Afghanistan from control centers in Kansas, why can't the airlines do this and expand the seating through the flight deck as well?

I should patent this idea.

(Damn you, Iron Chef, you beat me to it)

We're all just cattle to them anyway.

I generally fly Southwest, but we also got an Amex gold card with Delta FF miles - partially because we like the extra benefits from the Amex and the fact that we get something out of spending money we were going to spend anyway. We're the customers that they hate - we put everything on the Amex, but we treat it like our debit cards. Every time we put something on the Amex money gets transferred into an ING account that we use to pay our bills. Then we pay of the card in full every month, don't pay any interest, and get airline miles for our trouble.

I hate how if someone does the full recline in front of me I am basically forced to recline myself in order to have any space at all (my knees being uncomfortable is unavoidable). It makes me feel like an asshole, but there's basically no choice when they cram the seats in so close. I'll gladly pay for the upgrades like United Economy Plus to get some more room, but unfortunately that isn't available on every aircraft and airline. First class is just too expensive to justify.

@I Love New Jersey:

They'd just get a bailout, and then you would own upto 60% of some worthless airline.