@Jabberkaty: Right in one. Go to the head of the class.

Stardock is excellent with your own copy.

I could just as easily have gone to bit torrent and found the book in TXT, DOC, or MS LIT format and converted it, but I downloaded it from the Kindle store and paid my ten bucks.

As insane as that is ...

Like blaming the toaster for not having a warning tag saying you'll get electrocuted if you bathe with it. Yep, most toasters have the warning label, but if you buy the one the doesn't have the label, don't be surprised if you still end up toasty in the tub.

But your issue is the same with anything that doesn't require the linking of billing info. If the recovery email doesn't work, and there is no billing info to verify. There is nothing they can really do if they want their security to be valid in any way.

Actually, I do. I have a library of about 100 of them.

The DRM on consoles is *just* palatable. It's really on the edge, though. And it's only because console games are the best of a bad lot. The DRM at least lets me play it for as long as I like and never "revokes" my right to play it and (nowadays) doesn't try to purposely damage the console. This is unlike the modern day PC game that will go out of its way to wreck up your daemontools (amongst other things), and basically refuse to play unless you have a PC identical to the developer's so the DRM can work.

Of course, with consoles your console is pretty much identical to the developer's (although it isn't the same as their development console) so it's the saving grace that makes the DRM work. But, given the choice, I'd go with DRM-free. That's why I own a GP2X and am thinking about buying a Pandora (someday).

But, to be frank, I still modchip the consoles, because there's a lot more than just commercial games that the things can do. XBMC being a prime example.

If the bookseller goes out of business, or decides to change his/her business model, your right to read your analogue book will not be revoked.

And all the anti-ebook reader comments are almost off topic; ebook readers are definitely a niche product. If you don't want one, don't get one. For folks who read a lot and travel a lot, they're fabulous. I love mine, even dealing with the false DRM BS & overpriced tech.

I hope Amazon steps up and becomes more transparent about what exactly their customers are getting.

I love old cookbooks. I don't cook much, but they're fun to read. I have one from 1910 and it took me about four readings before I figured out what "forcemeat" was.

Nobody say it! I know what you're thinking and that's not it! :)

Well good grief, you can buy a CD and if you don't rip it on your computer and you leave it in your car in 100-degree heat and it melts, you're screwed too.

Can read in the bathtub and if you drop it, you're not out $400.

@diasdiem: Have you been to a public library lately? Did you ever ask them where that hot new bestseller (or any popular book) was so you could check it out? Remember how they laughed and handed you a list 15+ people long waiting to check the same book out for 2 weeks each? That's why I don't go to the library anymore. That, and the moms checking out sacks of 30-50 of the best kids books/DVDs at a pop, but that's another story.

Right, but he says he replace his iphone and ipod touch (at least the OS making it look new). So that's up to five devices. On top of that, you can see that he's been buying books since before the K2 was out, so he def. had a K1 and if he replaces his iphone so easily for the newest and greatest, it isn't a far reach to assume he replaced his K1 for a K2 especially since that's the picture he has.

Add to that, he may have had a replacement at some point, or has his partner or children sharing his account as well, and yes, he could easily have gone over the 6. Yes, that's all assumptions, but since he doesn't say... who knows. I would like to know more FACTS, because it is a scary notion. But having discussed in on the kindle boards at Amazon, no other people have had this problem that didn't find out in the end, that they had more than 6 licensed devices (old, and needed to be removed) on their account.

@HughGabulous: Cons: Getting screwed by the new technology because you bought it before all the problems and restrictions were exposed.

The problem with the iPhone app is you can't do that. There's no way to manually add or remove books--it has to be done via Wi-Fi or 3G, and you have to rely on the copies that are on Amazon's servers.

Even if you make a backup on your PC, if Amazon won't send the book to your iPhone app then you can't read it on your iPhone.

@Powerlurker:

Oooohh (think Merv Griffin), penises in the margins eh?!

Apparently, Amazon has acted quickly in rectifying this ... somewhat:

[www.geardiary.com]

@xay: I've got no first-hand knowledge of the way it's set up, mostly because the job I do makes you leave any and all electronics at the door. But from the verbage used in the EULA's posted here, there should be some way (as jesspark has pointed out) to create a backup of the file/data to keep a user from having to repeatedly download.

Allowing people multiple downloads of the same digital product, to me, is a very kind way of saying "We'll help you out if you lose your data, but don't expect us to babysit it." What if they decide to remove the content?

I think it would be fairly easy to find out what that maximum download number would be and should be fairly simple to show when purchasing, and that is an issue that lies on Amazon; to that extent, I do think there is a problem. Consumers have a right to know what the agreement is, IN WHOLE, and it isn't right that the download limit is not known to the people purchasing the book.

So, yes, it IS set up in such a way that you can make backups.

Two iPhones and one Kindle shouldn't result in hitting the limit, unless the guy's sharing his account and someone else has downloaded those titles to multiple devices.

I share mine, for instance; my parents bought me a Kindle for Christmas, and we all have our Kindles on the same Amazon account. This means that I can read any books that my parents buy, but, with three people on the same account, we're using up those six licenses per title pretty quickly -- especially with my mom's new iPod Touch. That's four licenses out of six if everyone downloads the same book onto each Kindle or Kindle-friendly device. If Dad and I each got an iPod Touch/iPhone or upgraded to a new Kindle, we'd be hitting the limit.

When you share an account and start having more than one Kindle/iWhatever per person, those licenses disappear faster than you might think.

Anyway, I think you're right, and that the author doesn't understand the difference between downloads and licenses. I wish we had more information, such as whether he shares his account, or exactly how many devices he owns.

@vjmurphy: How is it their responsibility to ensure you make backups of YOUR data? Does a B&M store have to give you new products if yours are lost, stolen, or broken because you didn't keep track or take proper care of said items?
No.

Right now, part of Amazon's sales pitch to publishers/authors is that the content is locked into the devices in question and can not be copied to a computer, printed or otherwise redistributed.

In the iPhone's case the best model is that the downloaded books be synced to the computer before upgrade and automatically resynced after upgrade - much as they now do with songs, pictures, video and apps... it could preserve their locked universe if the works are otherwise inaccessible from the host computer.

We've seen how quickly Amazon buckles under to the publishers and abandons consumer friendly functions. If the publishers back out, the Kindle is reduced to public domain works.

Think of the Kindle as the Apple approach to ebooks. Take one part sexy industrial design, one part top-to-bottom integration, and one part access to a content provider with a large amount of content with easy availability and integration into said hardware and software. You aren't just buying Kindle: the ebook reader. You're buying Kindle: the ebook reader with instant access to and integration with Amazon's ebook store, much like the iPod+iTunes+iTunes store combination.

You know, you CAN put free ebooks on your Kindle if you want. Amazon will even do the conversion for you.

Now, I'm no lawyer, but I consider my ability to interpret EULA's pretty up to par. Judging by what is said in their EULA above, these people need to be storing a permanent copy on their PC and transfer it to any desired devices (apparently at the limit of six devices).

Users can buy and download the content, then it's up to the user how it's distributed among their devices. It's not unusual to for a company (ie - iTunes music, iTunes videos) to allow only 1 download of their content per purchase.

Ignorance is bliss until you find out you're the one who's stupid.

Waiting for it to ship and arrive or paying the extortionate rates that the local bookstores charge

Heavy and expensive, or you buy it used and find that some idiot has highlighted EVERYTHING and drawn penises in the margins.

This makes me convinced that I'll never buy a Kindle as long as it would mean I'd have to agree to the draconian, ever-changing, never-good-for-me DRM restrictions inherent in the media I could purchase for the device. It's too bad, really. And Amazon, I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels that way.

Not paying the ridiculous prices charged for a new best-seller;

Being able to have daily newspapers and magazines downloaded to the Kindle to read immediately;

Not being a luddite about new technology

I understood the article just fine. I don't think the author understands the difference between downloads and licenses. I don't think Amazon makes it abundantly clear, either, so I'm not surprised.

"Why do you need 25 copies?"

"......in case I want to read it more than once."

The Kindle makes me feel like a luddite. (also, I get all of my books for free at the library. Why buy something if its free?)

I didn't notice anything about download limits, though. In fact, a big selling point is that you can remove the book from a device, and it will always be there in your archive for when you want to download it again.

In this case, however, I mean accessing the content and doing stuff with it, including indexing, searching, compiling, mashing-up with other stuff, and so on. It could be as simple as curating a large library of content for a research project or a novel, or as weird as using bits of content from printed works to create/augment a new work, possibly in another medium entirely.

The physical book is just an object that happens to contain the intellectual content. I say that digital versions of books provide more flexibility when it comes to getting at the good stuff.

It doesn't say how many devices he download too.

I'm not sure you're understanding the story, but I could be wrong. Maybe I'm confused.

Hello Daniel,

Thank you for your patience regarding your Kindle subscription to {The Magazine}.

Generally the last 7 issues of a subscription are available to download to your Kindle, but it appears that the publishers of {The Magazine} have restricted access to our Kindle customers to only provide the last 2 issues.

I apologize for any frustration this may have caused, but thank you for shopping with Amazon.com

Best regards,
{Your Friendly CSR}

Amazon could also copy the iTMS "authorized computer" model, where you register and deregister your devices as needed. Upgrade or crossgrade all you want, because you can always change the list of authorized devices.

This would also allow them to make it explicitly clear how many iPhones and Kindles you can have registered to a single account. (Currently it's hard to find that information.)

If it's true that publishers can determine your download limits on a per-title basis, then Amazon needs to make that explicit for each book before it's purchased. If you're going to use DRM, you have to be fair about it and tell the customer exactly what he can expect.

It's like a waterfall. Reddit->Consumerist->Digg.

@logicalnoise: I expect at some point within the next few years, Amazon & college textbook publishers will pay some university big $$$ to require incoming students to purchase a Kindle and to get all textbooks that way. They need to get the ball rolling. The publishers likely can cut afford to pay well any university doing this and still come out ahead.

But the more important issue is upgrades. When he upgraded the OS on the first iphone, that meant he had to redownload as if it was a completely different device. But Amazon won't let him redownload. So an iphone upgrade means you lose your books.

You also have the same problem if you get a new phone every year or two. In 2-4 years your books will hit their limit and you won't be able to put them on your newest phone. You are only using one phone at a time, but Amazon clearly doesn't have a way to account for this. And you may say, well big whoop, how many times do you read a single book? Well in the case of reference books and text books you might keep them around for a long while to reference.

Clearly Amazon needs a way to "return" books and set it up so they can time out(in the case of lost device). Such as making it so the device has to check-in online once every two weeks or a month to keep the book accessible. That way you can only have two active copies at once and have the ability to move the books around between devices.

@Corporate_guy: I'm fine with their choice. If they want print, buy print. If they want digital, buy digital. I simply have no sympathy for them. Buy DRM crippled items (with the caviat that you go into the purchase full well knowing about the DRM), you lose the right to whine when you run headlong into that same DRM.

That's basically what Dan was doing, except he had two iPhones and one Kindle and wanted the book to appear on all three.

Sorry to disappoint the world, but it's alive and well in my house.

So it's kind of hard to make a profit out of a $.99 book when a person downloads it 5 times.

Otherwise, DRM is the price they have to accept to get themselves on the market and convince publishers to sell their books through them. Once they reach a certain percent of the market, like Apple did with their iTunes store, they'll probably have the leverage to push for less restrictions.

[digg.com]

@shepd: a bit of a cold attitude to take, but I must confess i'm with you... the Kindle is about DRM and nothing else. Music, books, whatever else... buying digitally protected content almost ensures you lose access at some point for some reason.

How great if the publishers of college textbooks can limit them to one student?! They can get off that treadmill of changing a few paragraphs/exercises or readings in that math or 1800s literature compilation to kill those awful used bookstores.

Goodbye libraries too... it's the end goal -- pay for everything & much more limited sharing. I don't see libraries disappearing any time soon, but I do see them as in the publishers' sights.

my wife & i got one for Christmas. We sold it on CL.

@enthreeoh: and still allows companies to support broken DRM schemes. Steams great but it isn't perfect.

I don't own a Kindle and I don't recall ever even holding one in my hand, so excuse my ignorance; why would you download a book more than once?

@diasdiem: analog college textbooks:

perks-
.
.
.
.

cons-
expensive as hell
new editions come out bi-yearly if not yearly so your investment drops in value almost as soon as you buy them.
an entire industry of colleges cut off at the balls by the major publishers of the country.

If I'm going to go from the tried-and-true book to some digital format, it should be better or at least equal to everything I can get from a paperback; DRM like this merely ensures that I never make the switch.

I really like Amazon and have always had good luck with them but this would be a killer on my plan to buy a kindle.

Ah, good ol' print. You dont find this level of dickery with hard copies!

amazon screwed up by not immeidtaly having a way to see how many downloads are allowed and the blame also rests on the increasingly annoying and blowhard publisher unions. First they blow up against robot text to speech now they inisist one ase by case download limits of books we're paying full price for.

For any media I buy that I intend to enjoy more than once, I will only ever buy a physical product (preferably DRM-free, although the DRM is okay if it's totally cracked [like in the case of DVDs]), or a totally DRM/hardware-lock-in-free format. For a book that would mean ASCII text, or a PDF that works in xpdf. An MS-word file would even be okay if it opens up in OpenOffice. Basically, if I can operate the download with any "player" I feel like, it makes it on my "Can buy" list. Otherwise, no thanks.

I don't feel all that bad for people getting burned by these devices; it was pretty obvious it was going to happen sooner or later.