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Visa- it's everywhere you want to be and can't go to since they stole your money.
1 replies
Visa- it's everywhere you want to be and can't go to since they stole your money.
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I bought a Visa \"My Treat\" card from Safeway for my Mom last year. I should have just gotten her a gift card for a department store instead. While I was aware of the user fee, I wasn't aware that so many stores wouldn't take it. Clerks were truly puzzled when it was presented. Mom only had success at one store. These cards are really a bad idea!
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Wow. What a rip-off. I hope she gets some satisfaction from this shitty company.
I know a lot about these gift cards. A lot of these cards have issues working online because there is no way to verify the billing address. A key hint I've read is to go online and register the card and it could possibly work.
A main reason for this is because with the new US internet gambling laws, it is very difficult to get money into online sportsbooks. People are buying prepaid cards in an attempt to deposit when their usual cards are getting declined.
If you would like to buy something online with a prepaid card, you should get the \"VISA ALL ACCESS CARD\". This one works online on all sites. You can get them at Safeway, Shoppers, Giant, Etc. CVS does not carry these cards.
I don't know what some people's problem is with using a credit card. Either they don't want to use credit cards cuz they think they're the devil. However, when you want to get a loan ur screwed. Online shopping is the wave of the future. Have fun paying $5 to spend $100 online for a prepaid. Online shopping is reasonably safe, and CC companies are pretty good with fraudulent transactions.
\"However, when you want to get a loan ur screwed\"
Who NEEDS loans? Be an adult and save up your money. Immediate gratification is bad karma.
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@Stephen Schenck: A lot of people need loans for things like houses. Have fun saving up thousands and thousands of dollars to buy a house with cash.
@Stephen Schenck: Well most people can not save up for a home. Make no mistake that a mortgage is a LOAN. If you want to start a business and are smart you would use borrowed money and not your own. This would be another reason to use a loan. Finally, using credit cards provides an accounting of everything you buy, and provides insurance that cash can not.
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@Stephen Schenck: I've managed to avoid the car loans, but the house? That was a little more than I could have saved up for.
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@Customer_Service_Slave: @Customer_Service_Slave:
correct.
Internet, Mail, and Phone Order Purchases
Internet, mail, and phone order purchases may require that we have the name and address of the Prepaid Giftcard owner on file. If you wish to make Internet, mail, or phone order purchases, you will need to go to www.vanillavisa.com and enter your name and address prior to performing an Internet, mail, or phone order transaction.
still not a great idea. secure online transactions have not failed me yet.
@lotussix: @Customer_Service_Slave: About the online gambling thing - most credit card issuers in North America code their cards to automatically decline at any merchant who is recognized as being related to gambling. Their reasoning is that you are using their money to gamble with, and gambling is a high risk activity with higher than normal default rates. The dumb part comes in when the same companies also code their debit cards, secured credit cards, and prepaid credit cards with the same codes, and make that choice for you even when it's not their money, it's your money.
Regarding the use of prepaid cards online anywhere else, the concern is money laundering. Using a prepaid card without sufficient verification of identity THAT THE CARD ISSUER CAN TRACK is a gateway to allow criminals to reintegrate their money back into legal circulation without having to prove where the money came from.
The emphasis is used because some people think the fact that the cashier at the store checked their ID is enough. It isn't. The card issuer cannot track that due to massive privacy issues, nor can they prove the cashier ever checked it.
The penalties the US government imposes on companies that unwittingly and unintentionally allowed even a tiny amount of money-laundering to happen through their systems are huge, so every company out there protects themselves from that possibility, sometimes to an extent that the general public finds draconian.
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@arymede: So, basically, because the government law enforcement can't do their job and prevent these illegal activities, they go ahead and let the criminals (by proxy) destroy our financial systems, at the expense of the people that are not committing these crimes.
What's next? Are they going to be monitoring our phone calls because criminals and terrorists might use phones?
@Skaperen: Never said I agreed with it - I think it's ridiculous myself, and many countries outside the US don't have nearly the same kinds of restrictions.
@Skaperen: \"What's next? Are they going to be monitoring our phone calls because criminals and terrorists might use phones?\"
As a matter of fact, Yes.
D-
Where are the astroturfers to blame Stephanie? Not here yet?
So you can't wait too long to use it, but you can't use it too soon either. Maybe gift cards are just plain a bad idea. Ugh!
@chris_d: I'm not going to blame her because she didn't do anything wrong. However, for anyone else that may be in this situation, I recommend checking balances prior to using the card, even for plain old retailer gift cards. Just about every entity offers an online site to check the balance and it's a very easy way to make sure that the seller activated the card. That's always the first thing I do when I buy/receive a gift card. It really helps in these types of situations.
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@SabreDC: Oh but she did.
She didn't read the terms!! There's always a way to blame the OP. There's just -common sense- that -should- step in and consider what is a reasonable expectation for a consumer, and what is not, as well as what is a reasonable term, and what is not.
The card not being usable for the first 24 hours? Understandable, and perfectly reasonable.
Attempting to use it (mistakenly) in the first 24 hours and that rendering it invalid? Not reasonable in the slightest, even if stated in the terms.
@Wombatish: The terms don't say that the card is rendered invalid. It says that the money MAY not be available within 24 hours. Apparently you haven't read the terms either.
@SabreDC: You don't know what the terms say.
You just know a. what other people say they say, and b. what was printed on the card.
I am referring to the actual legalese.
@Wombatish: Sure I do. It's publicly available.
Vanilla Visa Cardholder Agreement:
[www.vanillavisa.com]
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@Wombatish: I'm sorry, but your attempt to blame the OP within the first 24 hours has rendered your argument invalid.
So by invalidating the agreement, that means she can now sue CVS and/or Vanilla, without arbitration, for failing to live up to the implied warranty of merchantability.
Seems like they want to be sued.
In fact, the way that the front of the card states \"funds MAY NOT be available\" will be their downfall.
@silver-bolt: Indeed. The statement \"may not be available\" implies that the funds just as easily MAY be available. It's as if they are saying to the funds \"You CAN be available before 24 hours but you MAY not [are not allowed to] be available before 24 hours.\" Imposing a requirement on the funds does not impose a requirement on the purchaser. Personally, I'm glad there's a Walgreen's right across the street from the CVS - I've never liked the place anyway.
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@Steve Jones: \"Personally, I'm glad there's a Walgreen's right across the street from the CVS - I've never liked the place anyway.\"
Uh. CVS has nothing to do with the Vanilla Visa Card. It's all Visa.
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Yes, regarding the 24 hour time delay, I see a big difference in \"funds MAY NOT be available\" and \"funds WILL NOT be available.\"
@mamalicious: Or \"Funds will not be available and if you try, we will steal your money (legally)... *evil laugh*\"
Funny enough, they actually insert a little voice recorder/playback device for the evil laugh part.
@silver-bolt: I'm positive that the \"Funds MAY NOT be available and the terms that state that trying to use the card within the 24 hours invalidates it are separate things.
The 'invalidation' one is in size two font on the cardboard card sleeve/hanger that was thrown away instantly, either by CVS or the customer.
Just out of curiosity, what retailers (presumably ones that accept Visa credit cards) don't accept Visa gift cards? If a retailer doesn't accept any credit cards, I can understand them not accepting the gift cards, but I don't recall ever seeing anything about a gift card being refused by a merchant that accepts Visa credit cards.
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@SabreDC: Amtrak won't- they'll take most of the major credit cards (Master Card, Visa, Discovery, AmEx), but you can't use prepaid credit/gift cards or debit cards that don't have one of those logos on them. In the case of the gift cards, I think it's primarily due to the fact that when you buy a ticket on board the train, the conductor's not using a networked scanner to run the card, but the old-style, carbon copy method. If someone uses a gift card that doesn't go through (for whatever reason), by the time Amtrak finds out, the customer is long gone and there's not a lot to be done. Someone probably did a cost-benefit analysis and decided that the likelihood of the prepaid cards being denied outweighs the benefit of allowing some customers to use them to pay for train tickets.
I don't know whether they'll take them at a physical ticket office, where they're presumably going to have a computer-based card reader; I'm currently in training to be a conductor, which is why I know about the on board policy. Cash is always okay, though (and probably welcomed by most conductors, as the carbon thing with credit cards is a giant pain to use)- can be a bit tough if you're upgrading to a room on a long haul train or something, but otherwise the way to go, IMHO.
@FaustianSlip: \"but you can't use prepaid credit/gift cards or debit cards that don't have one of those logos on them\"
We're talking about the Visa gift cards. They have Visa logos on them.
Generally speaking, it's only in the NEC (northeast corridor) and the Oakland - LA route (Amtrak California) that you *must* buy in advance. There are lots of smaller cities on other routes that don't even have quik-trak machines at the stations, so you simply don't have an option but to buy onboard.
@TheWillow: The last time I was on an Amtrak a few years ago I bought the ticket on the train. I left from Jeff City, Missouri, and even though that's the State Capitol the train station is tiny and, in recent years, run by volunteers. There's no ticket counter anymore. Many small stations are run like this, and if you don't buy your tickets online before your trip you have to buy them after you board the train.
It's the same story for the Chicago Metra trains. Many of the stations are just stops and don't have ticket windows, so you get your ticket on the train.
@korybing: The Amtrak station in Madera CA is nothing but a bench, a pay phone with a speaker on top of the booth and a six vehicle parking lot on a pothole filled partially paved road between some grain tanks and a partially demolished warehouse 2-3 miles east of town.
You HAVE to buy your ticket on the train.
@SabreDC: Online retailers, I think. Because the prepaid card usually won't have your billing address attached.
@Nicole Glynn: But with every Visa gift card I've received in the past, you go online and add your info. I've done quite a bit of online shopping with them because my family has no clue what to get me as gifts during the holidays and I've never had any problem if you register them.
I can't speak for Mastercard or AmEx though. I've never used those; just the Visa ones.
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Wow.
Well, another option is Paypal, which can generate a temporary card number (visa). My online banking service can also do this.
I've also never had any problem with the Green Dot program, though in all the above instances one gives up some private information in the registration process - namely social security number. Wal-Mart actually has a deal in place with the Green Dot people to offer a substantial discount on purchase, maintenance and reloading fees in the cards. I had always assumed that these cards were for use mostly for people who wanted a card distinct from their bank account, for online use and the like, or who did not have a bank account at all.
Reading the original article, it sounds like the Vanilla Visa people are trying to somehow shift the blame to CVS, which I do not understand. An \"activation delay\" is a far cry from \"self destruct.\"
@jkinatl2: My wife received a Green Dot Mastercard as a teacher gift. Green Dot is *not* a gift card. I really don't know who it's appropriate for. People who have cash but can't open a bank account and get a debit card? Who would want to pay $4.95/month spend their own money out of what is essentially an escrow account?
Anyway, we didn't want to pay $4.95/month *or* give our social security number. I think got a human on the activation number by waiting without pressing any digits. I was told we could decline the their terms (i.e. providing a social security number) and they would send us a check for the card value PLUS the $9.95 purchase price. I was suspicious, but sure enough, a check for $109.95 came a couple of weeks later.
FWIW, Discover does not require an SSN for their gift cards, but they are indeed gift cards - they are not reloadable.
@jkinatl2: I would rather eat dogshit than use Paypal again. I hope the owners of Paypal catch fire.
Did I mention I don't care for Paypal?
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@I_have_something_to_say: I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Do you hate Paypal or something? :P
@jkinatl2: Ugh! I had to load some money on a Green Dot once before and it went horribly wrong. The money never loaded up. Waited a few days because I loaded it with my check card. They took the money out, but never loaded it. It is impossible to speak to a human. I ended up going back to the place I bought it at and was able to get my money back there.
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If credit card companies can make one extra nickel by lying, stealing or murdering then you can bet they will.
@savdavid: That's why the legislation going through congress right now is not enough. We need prison time for bankers that do any kind of lying, stealing, and such. Long mandatory sentences, too.
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Why only a partial refund? Nowhere in the fine print does it say the card would be rendered useless if you attempt to use it within the first 24 hours. (As stated in the article by NBC, they opened a Vanilla card user agreement)
If she wants something to control her spending in a similar instance, she could open up a separate account at a local bank with free checking/debit card. She could deposit $100 into that account for spending purposes as needed.
@verucalise: I agree about the checking account suggestion. I don't know if all banks do this, but if I have at least $100 in my checking account, I earn interest.
Plus, there wouldn't be a $5 fee to get a new card every time she spends $100.
@MooseOfReason: It was to do online shopping.
But still, a bank account with a debit card just for that.
Except oh wait, debit cards don't have very good consumer protection laws attached to them.
Then again, neither do gift cards, really. Visa is about the only help you'll get, and that's a big fat maybe.
The only foreseeable problem is if she tries to take the account to a zero balance and leave it there for any period of time. They close those suckers fast, even if you have other accounts.
@Wombatish: Well, I can use my debit card online. I used it to pay to e-file my taxes. I have the Visa logo on the bottom right corner.
What do you mean \"consumer protection\"?
@Wombatish: My small credit union, not Visa, are the ones who initiated and investigated a chargeback claim. (Which I won.) I used my debit card for the purchase, and spoke to only local bank employees about why I wanted the claim filed.
But yes, she shouldn't let the account go to absolute zero. But she can find a bank that will let her opt out of overdraft to help her control spending, plus the $5 she saves can be her safety net, the lowest she'll let the account fall. She seems like she wants to control her spending, this is an excellent way to.
She was able to get PART of her money back? Me thinks she needs it all. CVS is responsible for selling something that gets you on the fine print.
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Yeah, but that doesn't prevent them from refunding her money and then going after Visa for it if that's even necessary at that point.
@razremytuxbuddy: It's VISA's fault.
110%.
CVS is just the middle man.
That being said... CVS would be in an excellent situation to simply provide the refund (or make up the difference) to retain a customer/get good publicity. It would also do them well in much the same way to either start warning people about the cards, stop selling them, or try to get VISA to do something about it.
I work at a Walgreens, and we have two type of Visa prepaid cards.
One of them, which seems to be meant as a normal gift card, which I can't remember the company name, but it's not Vanilla Visa, charges a fee that ranges from 3.95 to 5.95 based on how large the card is, and a $2 fee per month if it isn't used up within a year. I've never heard of any complaints similar to this story, so I don't know what kind of shady company CVS contracted with. We also have American Express gift cards which seem basically the same.
Then there are the Green Dot cards. They come in both Mastercard and Visa versions, and are not intended as gift cards. They have a 9.95 activation fee and a 4.95 monthly fee that starts immediately. They are reloadable, though that incurs another 4.95 fee. For some reason, they can only be paid for with cash.
They seem to be marketed towards someone wanting to control someone else's spending (like a parent giving them to a college student), or for people who don't have any real credit cards or a bank account but need to pay for things that can't be paid for in cash. Thus in order to activate them you have to provide personal information and they send the actual card in the mail, so it satisfies the online purchasing issues brought up by other posters by having an address on it.
Um can we ask why Stephanie bought a Visa Gift Card that carries all kinds of activation fees in order to make a purchase online?? Sounds like there has to be an easier way, dear.
@PLATTWORX: \"all kinds of activation fees\"?
There's one activation fee, and that's when you purchase the card.
$25 Gift Card Up to $4.95
$50 Gift Card Up to $5.95
$100 Gift Card Up to $6.95
$200 Gift Card Up to $7.95
@MooseOfReason: It seemed it was a matter of needing a credit card in general/not having a normal CC that they wanted to use for this purchase, rather than saving money.
But maybe I just got the wrong vibe and/or misread.
@Wombatish: I think you responded to the wrong comment.
Plattworx said the card \"carries all kinds of activation fees in order to make a purchase online,\" which is not true.
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@PLATTWORX: \"Sounds like there has to be an easier way, dear.\"
And the truly sad part is that she took this complicated way as a means to save money.
I've used the All Access card for quite awhile. Although there is a fee to reload it, it can be reloaded for free from PayPal.
@yabiman: I think you're calling the card the wrong name. Is this the card you're talking about?
[www.allaccessgift.com]
On the FAQ page, it says:
\"Can I add more money to the All-Access Gift Card?
No, but you can purchase a new All-Access Gift Card at any of our participating distributors. Please call 1-800-699-9708 for a distributor nearest you.\"
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Reading The Consumerist makes me never want to use cash, credit, debit, or gift cards again. From now on it's pure stealing and scamming for me. MMMKAYTHANKSBYE
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Gift cards make me want to throw up.
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A Vanilla Visa gift card like the one Stephanie used charges an activation fee of around $5, plus a $2.50 monthly service fee if the card is not used within seven months.
YMMV based on state.
IIRC, California does not allow activation fees, service fees, or expiration dates on gift cards. (though obviously you have to use them before said store goes bankrupt).
/and someday, I'll make my way back to a Godiva Chocolatier to get my $10 worth of chocolate from a 5 year old gift card.
@lordargent: But it does allow an activation fee for a prepaid credit card. What happens after purchase is not the states problem.
@Major-General: It also has to be sold in the state of California.
Even if it's a California based company, if you buy it on the web, all kinds of problems come up with that law.
Not that many people are buying gift cards online, but that law is not the end all-be all that a lot of people pull it out as.
More proof that bankers should be put in prison.
Wow, even the Soup Nazi gives you your money back.
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I've used LOTS of vanilla visas, on the rare occasion I forgot about the 24 hour clause, I called customer service and they offered me a new card. It did have to bear a name and be sent to an address which is now traceable to the bearer, however, they did give me the full amount of the value on the card, given it took 4 weeks before the card finally arrived.
If your family members really love you, they'll give you cash.
Visa earns its money the old fashioned way... it steels it.
I've never heard of a \"Vanilla Visa gift card\".
I get the regular Visa gift cards, the yellow ones. To use it online, though, you just have to register it on the website. No problem using it within 24 hours of purchase.
[www.gift2go.net]
Most of the time, though, I get American Express gift cards. No registering and no problems using it within 24 hours.
Frankly, despite what this CVS manager claims, it sounds like they didn't even activate the card in the first place. Either their employees didn't follow the right procedure, or their activation system has issues.
Either way, the card vendor says they don't void cards, and I'm inclined to believe them. The \"may not be available for 24 hours\" is on most credit card style gift cards that I've seen, intended as a disclaimer that there may be a processing delay - not that the card holder must wait 24 hours or risk losing their money.
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I see a class-action lawsuit coming. That's BS.
This is why I always use my AmEx card to buy gift cards, never use cash
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Gift cards, scam of the decade!
I don't understand you people. Not everyone has a bank account, believe it or not. Whether this is for legal reasons, credit reasons, or otherwise, some people just don't have one or a credit card for that matter.
So, finding another way to pay for stuff online usually means A) asking someone you know and then paying them back or B) getting one of these cards. My friend is in this situation and occasionally needs to purchase something online but has no credit card due to poor credit or bank account for some reason I don't exactly understand (garnishment? tax problems? no idea, don't really care), so I let him put it on my card and he pays me in cash. If I wasn't around to do this, he'd have to get one of those cards.
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@trujunglist: Yeah, the snobbishness about credit cards in this particular post is about as astonishing as it is point missing.
Seriously, Stephanie's reasons for buying the card are moot. That she got screwed by Visa and that she's only getting a partial refund from this debacle are the more important points of the story.
Besides, I highly doubt she's going to want to rush over and buy another gift card with such horrible terms without looking at the fine print first any time soon. (In case someone replies, spare me your anecdote about your cousin/best friend/whoever the hell who did just that. I don't really care.)
@crunchberries: No, she got screwed by Silverton Bank, who is the issuing bank and creditor for Vanilla Visa. Visa is just the processor network.
I work for a retailer that sells these gift cards and I know exactly why this has happened. There was a long running scam where people would open the packages and copy down all of the information from the card and place it back on the rack. Then the thief would continually try to use the card and eventually when some poor sap actually bought the gift card, they would empty it out.
The way this has been combated is if there is a balance inquiry or if someone tries to use the card numbers before the card is fully \"activated\", it becomes dead. This does a lot to combat the theft because the cards that are \"dead\" will not even activate through the register upon purchase. There is a window between purchase and activation where this could theoretically happen but the window is very small, an hour at most.
This isn't a deceptive practice at all, I think if she tried contacting the company she would get her money back. Third-party gift card retailers will almost never refund a gift card because they have no way at store level to get their money back.
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WTF. Man that's just messed up. Cash is king.
@Zclyh3: Debit cards work pretty well too, especially if it's for online shopping.
@Zclyh3: The story says she bought the card in order to do some online shopping, a venue where cash really doesn't work.
@Zclyh3:
That depends on where you go. I went to an Ultimate Electronics and tried to buy a $12 cable with cash. The clerk gave me such a tremendous hassle about paying with cash and trying to make me pay with credit (all the while looking nervously at his supervisor who was trying to observe the transaction unnoticed) that I ended up leaving with nothing. I've never been so hassled about paying with cash before, it was surreal.