You HAVE to buy your ticket on the train.

Vanilla Visa Cardholder Agreement:
[www.vanillavisa.com]

You just know a. what other people say they say, and b. what was printed on the card.

I am referring to the actual legalese.

We're talking about the Visa gift cards. They have Visa logos on them.

Generally speaking, it's only in the NEC (northeast corridor) and the Oakland - LA route (Amtrak California) that you *must* buy in advance. There are lots of smaller cities on other routes that don't even have quik-trak machines at the stations, so you simply don't have an option but to buy onboard.

The way this has been combated is if there is a balance inquiry or if someone tries to use the card numbers before the card is fully "activated", it becomes dead. This does a lot to combat the theft because the cards that are "dead" will not even activate through the register upon purchase. There is a window between purchase and activation where this could theoretically happen but the window is very small, an hour at most.

This isn't a deceptive practice at all, I think if she tried contacting the company she would get her money back. Third-party gift card retailers will almost never refund a gift card because they have no way at store level to get their money back.

@Skaperen: Never said I agreed with it - I think it's ridiculous myself, and many countries outside the US don't have nearly the same kinds of restrictions.

Plattworx said the card "carries all kinds of activation fees in order to make a purchase online," which is not true.

What do you mean "consumer protection"?

Seriously, Stephanie's reasons for buying the card are moot. That she got screwed by Visa and that she's only getting a partial refund from this debacle are the more important points of the story.

Besides, I highly doubt she's going to want to rush over and buy another gift card with such horrible terms without looking at the fine print first any time soon. (In case someone replies, spare me your anecdote about your cousin/best friend/whoever the hell who did just that. I don't really care.)

Yeah, but that doesn't prevent them from refunding her money and then going after Visa for it if that's even necessary at that point.

@chris_d:

I was going to blame the OP but after further review I think we can agree this is all really chris_d's fault!

It's the same story for the Chicago Metra trains. Many of the stations are just stops and don't have ticket windows, so you get your ticket on the train.

@I_have_something_to_say: I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Do you hate Paypal or something? :P

@PLATTWORX: Wow, you're condescending. Not needed.

@frank64: CVS has nothing to do with it. CVS sold it. That's it. Visa handles the actual terms.

@kunai: Your comment is like your namesake. Sharp.

@Steve Jones: "Personally, I'm glad there's a Walgreen's right across the street from the CVS - I've never liked the place anyway."

Uh. CVS has nothing to do with the Vanilla Visa Card. It's all Visa.

@Greg []: I think LadySiren was being facetious.

As a matter of fact, Yes.

D-

@Wombatish: My small credit union, not Visa, are the ones who initiated and investigated a chargeback claim. (Which I won.) I used my debit card for the purchase, and spoke to only local bank employees about why I wanted the claim filed.

But yes, she shouldn't let the account go to absolute zero. But she can find a bank that will let her opt out of overdraft to help her control spending, plus the $5 she saves can be her safety net, the lowest she'll let the account fall. She seems like she wants to control her spending, this is an excellent way to.

I see a class-action lawsuit coming. That's BS.

Either way, the card vendor says they don't void cards, and I'm inclined to believe them. The "may not be available for 24 hours" is on most credit card style gift cards that I've seen, intended as a disclaimer that there may be a processing delay - not that the card holder must wait 24 hours or risk losing their money.

Even if it's a California based company, if you buy it on the web, all kinds of problems come up with that law.

Not that many people are buying gift cards online, but that law is not the end all-be all that a lot of people pull it out as.

But maybe I just got the wrong vibe and/or misread.

110%.

CVS is just the middle man.

That being said... CVS would be in an excellent situation to simply provide the refund (or make up the difference) to retain a customer/get good publicity. It would also do them well in much the same way to either start warning people about the cards, stop selling them, or try to get VISA to do something about it.

But still, a bank account with a debit card just for that.

Except oh wait, debit cards don't have very good consumer protection laws attached to them.

Then again, neither do gift cards, really. Visa is about the only help you'll get, and that's a big fat maybe.

The only foreseeable problem is if she tries to take the account to a zero balance and leave it there for any period of time. They close those suckers fast, even if you have other accounts.

The 'invalidation' one is in size two font on the cardboard card sleeve/hanger that was thrown away instantly, either by CVS or the customer.

She didn't read the terms!! There's always a way to blame the OP. There's just -common sense- that -should- step in and consider what is a reasonable expectation for a consumer, and what is not, as well as what is a reasonable term, and what is not.

The card not being usable for the first 24 hours? Understandable, and perfectly reasonable.

Attempting to use it (mistakenly) in the first 24 hours and that rendering it invalid? Not reasonable in the slightest, even if stated in the terms.

Plus, there wouldn't be a $5 fee to get a new card every time she spends $100.

On the FAQ page, it says:
"Can I add more money to the All-Access Gift Card?

No, but you can purchase a new All-Access Gift Card at any of our participating distributors. Please call 1-800-699-9708 for a distributor nearest you."

[www.allaccessgift.com]

There's one activation fee, and that's when you purchase the card.

[www.vanillavisa.com]

$25 Gift Card Up to $4.95
$50 Gift Card Up to $5.95
$100 Gift Card Up to $6.95
$200 Gift Card Up to $7.95

I get the regular Visa gift cards, the yellow ones. To use it online, though, you just have to register it on the website. No problem using it within 24 hours of purchase.
[www.gift2go.net]

Most of the time, though, I get American Express gift cards. No registering and no problems using it within 24 hours.

@lordargent: But it does allow an activation fee for a prepaid credit card. What happens after purchase is not the states problem.

I don't know whether they'll take them at a physical ticket office, where they're presumably going to have a computer-based card reader; I'm currently in training to be a conductor, which is why I know about the on board policy. Cash is always okay, though (and probably welcomed by most conductors, as the carbon thing with credit cards is a giant pain to use)- can be a bit tough if you're upgrading to a room on a long haul train or something, but otherwise the way to go, IMHO.

"However, when you want to get a loan ur screwed"

Who NEEDS loans? Be an adult and save up your money. Immediate gratification is bad karma.

What's next? Are they going to be monitoring our phone calls because criminals and terrorists might use phones?

I can't speak for Mastercard or AmEx though. I've never used those; just the Visa ones.

YMMV based on state.

IIRC, California does not allow activation fees, service fees, or expiration dates on gift cards. (though obviously you have to use them before said store goes bankrupt).

/and someday, I'll make my way back to a Godiva Chocolatier to get my $10 worth of chocolate from a 5 year old gift card.

Anyway, we didn't want to pay $4.95/month *or* give our social security number. I think got a human on the activation number by waiting without pressing any digits. I was told we could decline the their terms (i.e. providing a social security number) and they would send us a check for the card value PLUS the $9.95 purchase price. I was suspicious, but sure enough, a check for $109.95 came a couple of weeks later.

FWIW, Discover does not require an SSN for their gift cards, but they are indeed gift cards - they are not reloadable.

How do they turn down a sale especially when it's cash? I don't understand.

AHHHH MY BRAINS

And the truly sad part is that she took this complicated way as a means to save money.

Did I mention I don't care for Paypal?

I've used the All Access card for quite awhile. Although there is a fee to reload it, it can be reloaded for free from PayPal.

Funny enough, they actually insert a little voice recorder/playback device for the evil laugh part.

Um can we ask why Stephanie bought a Visa Gift Card that carries all kinds of activation fees in order to make a purchase online?? Sounds like there has to be an easier way, dear.

Yes, regarding the 24 hour time delay, I see a big difference in "funds MAY NOT be available" and "funds WILL NOT be available."

@Zclyh3:
That depends on where you go. I went to an Ultimate Electronics and tried to buy a $12 cable with cash. The clerk gave me such a tremendous hassle about paying with cash and trying to make me pay with credit (all the while looking nervously at his supervisor who was trying to observe the transaction unnoticed) that I ended up leaving with nothing. I've never been so hassled about paying with cash before, it was surreal.

One of them, which seems to be meant as a normal gift card, which I can't remember the company name, but it's not Vanilla Visa, charges a fee that ranges from 3.95 to 5.95 based on how large the card is, and a $2 fee per month if it isn't used up within a year. I've never heard of any complaints similar to this story, so I don't know what kind of shady company CVS contracted with. We also have American Express gift cards which seem basically the same.

Then there are the Green Dot cards. They come in both Mastercard and Visa versions, and are not intended as gift cards. They have a 9.95 activation fee and a 4.95 monthly fee that starts immediately. They are reloadable, though that incurs another 4.95 fee. For some reason, they can only be paid for with cash.

They seem to be marketed towards someone wanting to control someone else's spending (like a parent giving them to a college student), or for people who don't have any real credit cards or a bank account but need to pay for things that can't be paid for in cash. Thus in order to activate them you have to provide personal information and they send the actual card in the mail, so it satisfies the online purchasing issues brought up by other posters by having an address on it.

Why only a partial refund? Nowhere in the fine print does it say the card would be rendered useless if you attempt to use it within the first 24 hours. (As stated in the article by NBC, they opened a Vanilla card user agreement)

If she wants something to control her spending in a similar instance, she could open up a separate account at a local bank with free checking/debit card. She could deposit $100 into that account for spending purposes as needed.

@lotussix: @Customer_Service_Slave: About the online gambling thing - most credit card issuers in North America code their cards to automatically decline at any merchant who is recognized as being related to gambling. Their reasoning is that you are using their money to gamble with, and gambling is a high risk activity with higher than normal default rates. The dumb part comes in when the same companies also code their debit cards, secured credit cards, and prepaid credit cards with the same codes, and make that choice for you even when it's not their money, it's your money.

Regarding the use of prepaid cards online anywhere else, the concern is money laundering. Using a prepaid card without sufficient verification of identity THAT THE CARD ISSUER CAN TRACK is a gateway to allow criminals to reintegrate their money back into legal circulation without having to prove where the money came from.

The emphasis is used because some people think the fact that the cashier at the store checked their ID is enough. It isn't. The card issuer cannot track that due to massive privacy issues, nor can they prove the cashier ever checked it.

The penalties the US government imposes on companies that unwittingly and unintentionally allowed even a tiny amount of money-laundering to happen through their systems are huge, so every company out there protects themselves from that possibility, sometimes to an extent that the general public finds draconian.

correct.

Internet, Mail, and Phone Order Purchases

Internet, mail, and phone order purchases may require that we have the name and address of the Prepaid Giftcard owner on file. If you wish to make Internet, mail, or phone order purchases, you will need to go to www.vanillavisa.com and enter your name and address prior to performing an Internet, mail, or phone order transaction.

still not a great idea. secure online transactions have not failed me yet.

Well, another option is Paypal, which can generate a temporary card number (visa). My online banking service can also do this.

I've also never had any problem with the Green Dot program, though in all the above instances one gives up some private information in the registration process - namely social security number. Wal-Mart actually has a deal in place with the Green Dot people to offer a substantial discount on purchase, maintenance and reloading fees in the cards. I had always assumed that these cards were for use mostly for people who wanted a card distinct from their bank account, for online use and the like, or who did not have a bank account at all.

Reading the original article, it sounds like the Vanilla Visa people are trying to somehow shift the blame to CVS, which I do not understand. An "activation delay" is a far cry from "self destruct."

Seems like they want to be sued.

So you can't wait too long to use it, but you can't use it too soon either. Maybe gift cards are just plain a bad idea. Ugh!

I know a lot about these gift cards. A lot of these cards have issues working online because there is no way to verify the billing address. A key hint I've read is to go online and register the card and it could possibly work.

A main reason for this is because with the new US internet gambling laws, it is very difficult to get money into online sportsbooks. People are buying prepaid cards in an attempt to deposit when their usual cards are getting declined.

If you would like to buy something online with a prepaid card, you should get the "VISA ALL ACCESS CARD". This one works online on all sites. You can get them at Safeway, Shoppers, Giant, Etc. CVS does not carry these cards.

I don't know what some people's problem is with using a credit card. Either they don't want to use credit cards cuz they think they're the devil. However, when you want to get a loan ur screwed. Online shopping is the wave of the future. Have fun paying $5 to spend $100 online for a prepaid. Online shopping is reasonably safe, and CC companies are pretty good with fraudulent transactions.