As jennybeth said, its not really required for the phone number just put your name and sign it. Its for corporate purposes to make sure there's no fraud going around. Employees aren't supposed to do refunds and if they do we can at least verify that its a real person by calling. Also it keeps managers in line as one manager at my location was fired for buying tickets on his credit card then refunding them out as cash (using the register like an ATM) while it all balanced out its still against policy and they caught him because he used fake names on the refund drafts.

They told me that this was because of some recently-enacted legislation called the "Red Flag Rule." I've been hoping Consumerist would do a story on this (hint, hint). I think basically the Red Flag Rule is saying that anyone who is issuing you credit needs to take some steps to verify that you're really who you say you are. (And medical providers, because they are usually paid weeks after the visit, apparently fall into that category.)

The part I'm not getting is how having my personal information input into even more databases is going to protect me from identity theft.

My DL has a mag-stripe on the back, but it doesn't work for some reason. Whenever I get a new license, I store it in a special drawer for "seasoning."

Said drawer contains a cornucopia of magnets (most of them rare-earth). Data goes in, but noise comes out ;)

Remember also that a 2-d barcode ([bit.ly]) can become useless with "accidental," repeated dotting with a fine-point sharpie.

Return privileges are there for the express use of their customers. Any abuse of this service makes returns more difficult on everyone.

Oh, I've totally been guilty of that. I looove bookstores, and I especially love places like Borders where I can sip a coffee and read a book for awhile. My guess is, the store wants people to do that. It's such a comfortable atmosphere that people end up staying around longer, and eventually buying more -- at least that's what I end up doing.

Depends where I am at. I only have it on when I am working. No matter where I go they know I have a weapon on me. As someone pointed out. Most people have no idea what a CCDW/CCW really is.

@Kimberly Gist-Collins: Then you don't get to return the item.

Nothing other than a merchants largesse allows you to return anything. Once you have purchased something it is yours. There is no 'right' to return things.

@Neurotic1: The Uniform Commercial Code governs returns. Stores do not have to allow you to return anything.

If the store does allow returns it may set its own policies. The policies may require identification, heck they may require that you hop on your left foot when you make the return.

There is absolutely no right to return anything. Simply changing your mind will not get you a chargeback. If an item is defective -if it is not fit for its particular purpose that is another story, but simply returning something because you don't want it or because you changed your mind is a courtesy retailers extend to you and as the economy deteriorates the policies become more restrictive.

Hey don't hate, if I don't feel like buying tools, I rent them from wally world ;)

I agree with all the posts that retailers should not have any right whatsoever to require government-issued ID unless that ID is specifically issued for this purpose (i.e. not a permit to drive or travel abroad like one post mentioned above) unless it is readily available to consumers (and I don't mean one 8x10 sign in the corner of the store behind the housewares) so they can choose not to shop there.

If chronic returners are a problem for a store the store should be able to come up with something else other than demanding you surrender your privacy for simply returning something which is your right with most stores .

The stores should use things like restocking or open box fees to stop the non-criminal returner . They should issue nothing but a store credit for the no reciept/shop lifter returner . The stores should check the returns used or not . I heard stationary stores get scammend on stuff like printer cartridges all the time with customers returning used ones in a new box .

In the end the consumer is the one who should refuse to do business with stores like this . But the consumer can't make a decision unless they know ahead of time that ID will be required for all returns .

Show me the privacy policy

When I came to Texas to visit my parents after they moved here, I wrote a check at Wal-Mart. Or tried to, anyway. They had no problem with the out-of-state check but the cashier absolutely refused to take my military dependent ID as one of the two forms of identification they required for an out-of-state check. So did her manager. "I've never seen an ID like this before (really?!?) and I don't know how to tell if it's fake." First off, that's a stupid thing to say to a customer. Secondly, oh I dunno, maybe the hologram on the laminated sleeve might give you a clue? Especially if you compare it to the handout that's laminated to the counter right in front of you that shows valid forms of ID.

@knicksyanks1: I hate those assholes at Target. I got a gift of a coffemaker, and a few bags of coffee pods for Christmas. Turns out it was the wrong kind of coffee for the machine.

Then the red shirted cretin tells me that I can only return 3 out of the 6 bags becvause that's all they allow in a year. These are not high dollar items, just a few bucks each but still.

A lot of these retailers use the 'Return Exchange' which is a similar company. Oh, and get this they're officially located in Brazil, so this is all nice and safe from US law.

Man, retail stores suck.

I worked in a retail store where at some locations their return rate was as high as 30% of their sales. While the company-wide average was much, much less, these stores became the focus of the loss-prevention department while I was working there and actually uncovered a couple of theft rings.

Even where no criminal activity was attached, chronic returners usually return items in a condition that cannot be resold as new. As anyone can attest to, trying to get things back into a package from the way they were originally can be a chore in itself. Even then, we'd often get things back with cords stuffed into boxes unbundled, manuals missing, etc.. Even if the item itself had no obvious signs of use, getting someone to pay a new price for it was often a challenge.

We argued that the return periods on certain items should be shortened or restocking fees implemented specifically to discourage this type of behavior, but it fell on deaf ears.

Remember when they used to make you fill out that little form? Now they don't because the code on the back of the DL has all that information in it. At least that's what Target told me.

Lesson learned: keep your receipts.

@LatherRinseRepeat: They also have it behind the counter. Last time I bought it, I asked the guy at the counter if I'd get in trouble for making jokes about making meth, like at airport security. He said no, and that they do it all the time.

I didn't think to ask if he meant that they make jokes, or that they make meth.

Thats understandable. I wonder if the computer tells them (cashier, barkeep, etc.) that the license is valid, or if it shows all the info, like address and such.

How did he bully him exactly? All he did was state his policy and didn't flinch. The clerk could've just told him to gtfo

@krunk4ever:
If you don't have your receipt at Target...you're not returning anything.

Regarding Gamestop, some states and municipalities require them to operate under the same set of laws that regulate pawn shops, which are almost always required to take personal information so that if anything they receive is later reported stolen, they can give the info to the cops.

Tell them that they must treat it like PHI under HIPAA, and you'd like to see the controls in place before you give it to them.

I don't know what's more scary a private business asking for your government ID or the fact that civilian equipment can scan government documents .

I might give some leway if a person is returning something without a reciept but for a return with a reciept or on record - NO WAY! .

But this is what happens when we have become so casual about giving out personal information that was never intended for ID purposes . The kids that witness this going on or even the teenage cashier handling the return are the ones to worry about in the future because to them asking and giving up personal information is a normal way of doing business .

@SarcasticDwarf: Alot of the info that the doctor's office gathers if often for pursuing you for a bad debt and not for health care issues. This could be related.

@humphrmi: Problem was the vast amounts of bar code switching scammers who returned items for gift cards and then resold the cards for 50% of value in cash.

I really do not see how this works with the various people involved in illegal immigration who get often get fake id's for work purposes...

@WillG: I wonder what would have happened if the statement was "I'm sorry it's against my religion to let you scan my license."?

I would tell the retailer that I don't have a license. I sometimes tell retailers I don't have a phone when they ask for my phone number.

I had to give a phone number and sign a receipt to Champs Sports to exchange a tee shirt that was marked incorrectly. Both cost the same amout, but they needed all sorts of information just to exchange something.

@katieoh:
Im not sure if the rules on controlled substances are the same countrywide (one would kind of hope so) but my local walgreens gives out the painkillers without an id and only verifies the address. THats wrong right?

@Chumas:
EEE!!!Your cyberstalking me! *waves* Hiya Chumas!

I work for CVS and we do it to keep track of sales of Psuedophedrine. So much easier than using paper and pencil and it tracks all stores, not just ours, so they can't go over the limit.

Oh its another "for YOUR protection" kinda things... HEY! were going to put you in this railroad car and shackel you for your own protection! *whisper* "then force you to work at a camp" WHAT?! "oh, nothing..."

My roomie's a butcher, and some lady had them order a hogs head (not normal fare) just for her. She paid for it, took it home, stewed it, and then brought it back (pretty much just a skull at that point) and returned it, just because the cashiers/front end manager couldn't tell the difference between a stewed and non-stewed pig head, and just the fact that grocery stores will do returns on almost anything, sadly.

Full hogs heads aren't super cheap, either, and the meat department had to eat the loss. My roomie couldn't decide whether to be pissed or laugh his ass off.

on the same note, if there's a customer constantly bringing in an unusual amount of returns without receipt, loss prevention keeps an eye on them. they might have been from an area store where they walked out the door with a bunch of items without buying..... all they need is tapes showing the person stole or otherwise unlawfully obtained the merchandise (switched tick's) and there will be a nice police car ride to their next residence. you don't have to worry about this unless you committed a crime. i'm just pointing out that this info. can help to catch a thief.

the show id for no receipt returns is clearly stated on a poster at the customer service desk. like i said, you can avoid it by bringing in a receipt or doing receipt look up.

with all that, i think when you have a receipt and they still require id, that's a bit much.

The Retail Equation is one of many solutions - many retailers use homegrown databases. State law - at least here in California - limits what information the retailer may store from the ID swipe. Most I have seen store name and Driver's License number.

Bad consumers make life more difficult on the rest of us but fraud is rampant. If you were the retailer would you not protect yourself?

@AndyMan1: Dang, that's cold. Get some new friends!

@MerryLifeAndaShortOne: Actually it makes perfect sense. The best deterent to good fake ID's / out of state ID's is to be able to tell the validity based on the magnetic strip. My local Circle K uses this for alcohol/tabacco/lottery purchases, and I've seen a few others do the same for age verification. I would wager state governments have embraced opening up at least some of the info to retailers.

While I understand the purpose ,ID scanning should be refused by the customer when possible.These types of systems are made to save cost,not to secure customer data.Even if the drivers license data isn't hacked externally,employees at the data company's HQ could just download all that juicy info on a flash drive for the right price.

Since companies won't pay my legal fees if they're connected to the theft of my identity,I will not provide any information that can be used as such.As someone who works in retail you *dont* have to do what they say.Decline politely,and if the staff is still being moronic contact the retailers head office.Once you get to district level management they'll do reasonably anything to resolve the issue

@floraposte: I'm sure a clerk wouldn't mind hitting the button on the receipt printer that will churn out blank paper, tear off a piece, and let you read the policy. I don't know about Finish Line, but a lot of stores also have the return policy on a sign behind the registers.

@Laura Northrup: Walmart is one of the few places that allows you to return items without a receipt. I have a friend (I know that sounds cliched, but I am being serious) that abuses this all of the time. We were going with some friends on spring break, and he said he needed to stop at WalMart to get groceries. So we stop, and he pulls out a bunch of videogames and software he got for free through a Microsoft survey program. He then went to the customer service desk, "returned" the games for $200, and bought his groceries. And THAT is why stores scan your license; too many people scam. Same reason places like Gamestop ask for names/numbers on trade-ins; they want to stop flippers/dealers from exploiting the system.

I suppose it would depend on the demographic of your read-and-returners.

I remember when a new Borders opened up in my town. It doesn't help that they have those big comfy chairs, but one saturday afternoon, I walked in and saw a family of four. Mom and Dad sitting in the big comfy chairs and the two kids on the floor in front of them each reading books (The kids had a stacks of them.) I was thinking WTF? Is this their living room?

I thought the best reply so far was from: ideagirl who said:
"I show it to them, and say "Please don't scan it." If they question me, I tell them I was a victim of identity theft and it shuts them up."

Great idea, I will keep it in mind. However you really don't get much warning that they are going to 'scan' it.

If you are anti-Target you might take a look at my blog www.targetfiling.blogspot.com which is not in its 4th year. This is the blog that they sued for 23 months to shut down and couldn't do it (got tossed out in July 08). They objected to my having put up their Security Manual, it is still there FYI.

@SMSDHubbard: ...Giving you a terrible name, how? It's legal for him to carry a gun, so....

@Lucky225: So....are you buying dresses and returning them after the prom or *what*?

Idk, maybe it's just me, but I doubt you really need 200 tablets of pseudoephedrine in 2 weeks. You're up to something or your entire extended family is sick and you're buying the drugs for like 10 people. Meh.

@CecilCynortas: The funny thing is - for most states - the driver's license is a permit to drive and not based on "foundation information" (therefore NOT intended as an identification document). You could probably get a driver's license in some states easier than you could a credit card.

Don't forget that most retailers have a clause that says: "We reserve the right to refuse any returns". For good reason.

Wrong.

You don't remember this information in your head till the end of time.

The information on a lot of ID barcodes is way more then the number, your name, and address.

So at what point do these stores actually use this "store policy" information to turn down a return of an item - EVER? I feel this is definately a potential risk for fraud in the near future. Driver's lic now have social security numbers and is definately the next target for theives. At what point do customers have a right to privacy? If I am buying a pair of pants that needs to be returned - why should it be recorded? How about the company using the same type of information for how many times I buy...and give me a discount for my frequency of buying in their store? Why focus on the negative!

"it's no different than someone asking for your name and address" is an incorrect statement. You are not going to remember my name and address, what I returned, and every other piece of information on there for all eternity like a computer database is. Also, it is NOT just your name and address. In my state it is every single thing except my social security number.

Well, that was easy, I will never shop at a Finish Line. I rarely return products...but I'll stop shopping at places that require my ID. There are so many friggin stores in this world that are looking for business right now.

@smr13:

What say I hand over a birth certificate? That's class A ID right there and there's no barcode, magstripe, or RFID to copy.

It also tells you nothing more than I'd already tell you, apart from my city of birth.

@AndyMan1: It's because your ticket was already torn and couldn't be processed as a straight void. When I worked at a Regal, we also had to write down the time the ticket was turned in - I guess to prevent people from watching the whole movie and then trying to get a refund.

I believe the Name/Phone number is on there so that corporate could call and ask why you refunded your ticket (problems in the theater, too hot/cold, not the right movie, etc.). However, I don't think that's actually done in practice.

I very rarely had time to get the customer to fill those things out - we either used fake names or our own to fill them out. Peter Parker and Clark Kent were frequently returning tickets at our theater :-)

There was a story a few years back about a bar bouncer that was using the scanner data -name, address- to harass female customers..

I like the white lie a previous poster said -I was a victim of identity theft so i don't let anyone copy my data-

But I've seen plenty of the same thing,customers reading books and coming back to exchange them a day later. Except our store hasn't pushed too many people away because our manager thinks it's bad customer service. She'd rather keep them coming in and happily exchanging books all the time. What the hell, I know.

Personally, no one scans my driver's license for any reason.

(I worked at GameStop, and when taking in trades we were subject to the NYC pawn shop laws, so we had to check and record ID for all of those transactions.)

I can see them collecting the data to identify people who frequently return things - but to what end?

Are these people going to be met by a "No, You're not allowed to return things anymore." or "You're banned from this store!" someday? Obviously not.

There are mechanics in place to prevent the old "find a receipt walk-in and return things off the shelves" scam but I fail to see how even those can be avoided by scanning a license...

Also, managers are supposed to be the only ones doing returns anyways. So Ed was likely talking to a manager. And so if you are repeat returner, you're still going to need an ID.

I talked my way out of it, on technicalities. I don't have a driver's license (just a state-issued ID), so I stuck with that, "I don't have one." tact. I shouldn't have had to do that, however.

Besides, I've been watching Breaking Bad - everyone knows you don't need sudafed anymore!

But they really should post this in store and maybe ask for permission to scan your personal information and shoot it across the interwebs to god knows where.

If they want to track over-returns, use the name and (partial) CC number (or a hash of the CC#). They have that for the purchase, and the return, and that's all they should need.

It would be interesting to know if there are similar laws governing who can demand the details on a drivers license or other government issued ID.

By the way Social Insurance Number is equivalent to Social Security except not likely to go bankrupt real soon. (sorry about the smart ass comment, couldn't resist)

That way you can happily hand your license over to the drone and mumble "Slide this M....."

In general, I avoid handing people a note that says "I have a gun."

However you can't really wear shoes and return them without noticing. Unless there's hours of prep work prior, the shoes are going to wear down. I bought a pair of Fit Flops and within the first 30 minutes of wearing them just in the living room, (and sitting down a lot), my foot had already left a visible outline.

@ajlei: Perhaps she was the cashier that bobcatred mentioned!

@ajlei: You could try an see if they are reading the book by asking them an obscure question about the book, or telling them that your favorite part was___________.

I am waiting for the day when bookstores have a sample copy on the shelf that people can pick up and skim, but when you want to purchase, there is a tamper seal across the book (ala the labels that are on CD case spines) that will let you know when the book has been opened.

@ideagirl: I like that idea.

I'm usually ok with letting them run the mag strip on the back (we used to do it at the bank all the time, so I've been able to see exactly what's on the strip). What I have a problem with is when the physically take the license, put it on a scanner, and keep that on file.

I went to a bar one time and that's their normal policy. "In case something happens and we need to know who you are."

Once I started asking questions about their network, how it was secured, what kind of data encryption solutions they had, and what their privacy policy was, they just looked at me and "deleted" the file from their database.

Now, I don't mind showing my ID to prove that I'm of legal drinking age, but scanning the front and keeping it on file, well that's just a little too much info for a damn bar.

Needless to say, I've not been back.

Okay, so that particular situation only happened once, but I was perplexed as hell. I was trying to think what possible reason they could have to count out that much when they clearly had exactly $12.25 already. I ended up giving the lady back the extra $2.50, she took it back with an "I'm not sure why you're giving this back to me but I like money!" sort of look.

The thing about customers coming in and reading in-store is that sometimes they cause so much damage to the book (like trying to lay a mass market flat) or bend/tear the jacket on a new book that we have to damage out that book anyway.

Being a book person long before I worked in a bookstore, it appalls me how little care people use with books, especially if they aren't theirs. And of course, the same people who bend/tear up the store copies are the ones demanding a 20% discount because the dust jacket on the white book they want has some stray marks.

Actually, I'd better stop now before I really get going.

2. Their written policy does not state they will request an ID. If they refuse to take the return without one, send the item to the store with certified mail and charge it back with your certified mail slip as proof you returned it. Costs you a few bucks to send it back, so it's probably better for everyone involved to just work it out. I still won't let a store scan my ID.

I have no idea if it's been successful or not in reducing the number of labs, or if it's just sent them overseas or what, but that was the idea at any rate.

In reality, it may have a perfectly valid purpose, but it's not being handled well if the customer has to ask why you're swiping an ID AFTER it's swiped. Customers should be warned that their personal information is going to be stored in a database, possibly with a third party before they hand over the card.

When they scan your license, they get EVERYTHING that's printed on your license, and sometimes a bit more. This includes your DOB, address, height, weight, etc. In many cases there aren't any laws protecting them from using or selling this information any way they like.

Use a passport instead. Unless their policy explicitly mentions a drivers license or state ID card, you've met their return policy conditions (presenting a photo ID, presumably) and they should accept the return. Yet, they can't scan your passport, and even if they happen have a passport MRZ reader (which I've only seen at airports), they won't get nearly the same amount of personal information.

But the problem is with chronic returners, not just average customers. They cause retailers to lose big bucks.

I live in Georgia and looked through the Georgia code pertaining to drivers licenses. I can find no mention of any definition of defacing or for that matter any section making defacing a license illegal, though im sure if one doesn't exist there is something general about "official documents".

I am not suggesting actually harming your license, but what about a little piece of coloured of opaque tape over the number to prevent it from being scanned in that can be easily removed to present to a law enforcement officer when needed? Or how about a sealed cellophane/plastic pouch with black over that part that can be easily ripped open to present to a law enforcement officer when needed?
Anyone have any information on the legality of that? The number doesn't mean anything to them, they cant cross reference it, they shouldn't care. All they should be interested in is my face, name, and address.
(Oh, and no way on earth would I let anyone scan my CCW permit, let alone present it to anyone other than a law enforcement officer)

Not to mention the fact that a permit, in most places, ALLOWS for concealed carry, but doesn't require it. Just like a drivers license allows for driving but doesn't require you to drive if you want to walk instead.

Nothing really wrong with open carry. I do it fairly frequently. Of course, having a CCW makes it easier for me to carry a BUG as well! Of course, living in AZ, its not a huge deal, until the snowbirds come in from places like California. Besides, what kind of criminal OC's? Not too many, most prefer to hide.

Back to the topic: I'm wondering how the database is tracked. It seems strange to me that the stores have the capability to decode the magnetic stripe or the "bar code" (mine looks more like dots).

Hey, if you (the store, not you personally) didn't need my ID to buy it, and didn't tell me I would need it for a return (before I pay for it), and you advertise that you do returns, then I say fraud. I might not even have an ID. Maybe I don't drive and took the bus to the store.

OK, so back to the manager. Faced with such a case, call the manager. If I'm a repeat returner without ID, the manager will recognize me.

I'm reminded of this one time I was behind this one guy at Wal-Mart, and he was returning everything he needed for the weekend camping trip he must have just had. It was so blatant it actually made me angry -- for Wal-Mart!

Hope you're not one of those assholes that make retailers treat the rest of us the way they do on returns.

From what I understand, they use that to track how much pseudoephedrine products you've purchased within "X" time frame. Cuz ya know.. They assume everyone that purchases Sudafed is operating a meth lab at home. *rolleyes*

@humphrmi: Don't worry, big brother knows.

because ed was so anal. i wasted 4 mins of my time reading this article when he could have googled it to find out why they swipped his liscense. sheetz swipes mine to buy tobbacco.

google is your friend:). its also a safeguard against junkies who just found that recipt in the trash and go in , steal the shoes and return them.

@tom2133: i think that's just stupid though. all the stores have those reward cards now and bug you to sign up. great, so i sign up and do all my shopping at sports authority. with more shopping inevitably comes more returns for whatever reason. so now i'm being denied legit returns after i've spent hundreds if not thousands of dollars in the store.

Hence why one ID w/ one number and a DL with another worx ;)

I mean, realistically, if all of the meat from our store was consistently _that_ bad, why did she continue to buy it from us? Because she got away with getting it for free for so long.

So first and foremost: just say no. I really don't see why I should be required to present any more information for undoing a purchase than what I presented when I made the purchase in the first place.

If you're going about showing everyone that you have a firearm, please stop owning guns. You give the rest of us a TERRIBLE name.

@SarcasticDwarf: That's really odd. I just checked the FDA website and found nothing on an updated/new policy for this. In the case of insurance, a lot of them require a photocopy of the identification...but the FDA could really care less who you are.

Actually if Retail stores follow the same law as the banks, they must accept any form of available "Government" ID such as Drivers License, CCW Permit, Military ID, Passport, etc.......

As for Walmart/Target, etc. - they're drivers license info, from what I've learned, is used to limit non-receipted returns. Walmart only offers 3 non-receipted returns in a 6 month period.

I imagine that just about everyone who's NOT scamming the system like this doesn't return things often enough to set off any alarms.

I agree scanning your ID sounds like an invasion of privacy, but it's really no different than just knowing your name and address(and your drivers license number I suppose).

It's a little creepy in a way, but I understand why retailers do this. I did my time in retail and saw my share of habitual returners. We would also get a lot of 'renters'... i.e. Buy camcorder, film wedding, return camcorder.

When I visited my medical specialist last week they stated that a new FDA policy requires them to photocopy a photo ID and keep it on file. Anyone know what is up with this?

Oh and that Ed guy sure is cute in the picture ;)

I agree scanning your ID seems like an invasion of privacy of some sort, however, it's no different than someone asking for your name and address(and drivers license number I suppose). The magnetic strip or the barcode on the back doesn't have any other special information than that.

@zentex:

Good advice - advertise you have a CCW and your nickname becomes 'Target'.

The only time I have ever used my CCW as an ID was when I was buying some DVDs at Media Play (remember them?) and the extremely snotty clerk demanded my ID along with my credit card. And no, I didn't do or say anything to bring it on.

Amazing how her attitude immediately did a 180... my friend and I were surprised she didn't get whiplash!

Where does it state that I could only return an item x number of times? Is this magic number expressed or implied anywhere when the original purchase is made? What if I have legitimate reasons for all the returns and is within the stores' policies?- is that inputted into this system? And why should the number of returns I made to another retailer have any bearing??

This seems rather draconian and is a huge invasion of privacy. If a customer has a return that's well within the stores' guidelines, then what's the problem?

After I refused to play along with it (not having a specific reason, but just wanting to stand up against this surveillance/anti-privacy creep in our society), they got the manager, who quickly took the pants and credited my card. She never did explain why they needed a gov't-issued ID, but insisted that it was indeed store policy. I haven't bought an other thing at JCrew since.