The Dish on Dishwashers [The New York Times]
(Photo: NJ Tech Teacher)
@Dennis Freytag: GE (and others' hot-start feature does away with this. Saves you money, too. It's better to heat the water at the point where you need it.
]]>most new dishwashers' instruction booklets say you should run the hot water tap until the water is the hottest it gets BEFORE turning on your dishwasher. this ensures that HOT water (as opposed to lukewarm) is mixing with your detergent to clean the dishes. my dishwasher is almost 10 yrs old, & i just started running the hot water tap before turning on the dishwasher cycle (now i use the lightest setting) & my dishes are cleaner and there are NO spots on the glasses (i don't have to buy Jet Dry, etc anymore).
i highly recommend everyone try this a few times & see if it makes a difference. what have you got to lose??
We have a softener on the system, but it can only do so much with the water here. Running the hot water for a few minutes to get the line hot definitely helps. We've never used powder in the washer, but we are currently using some transparent, lumpy, gel-like formulation of Cascade which I'm not terribly impressed with. The old white liquid did a much better job.
I've found dried-on Kraft mac-n-cheese is a torture test for a dishwasher's ability.
]]>The only thing you have to worry about (with laundry detergents especially) is that they are properly dissolved in water.
The fix was to scrape all the gunk out, use liquid detergent or if I did use powder then to make sure to do a really hot wash (maybe with some caustic soda? don't remember) every so often. I've used liquid since then and haven't had too bad a time.
]]>That is why I have had great luck with powder and terrible luck with liquids in my crappy apt. dishwashers.
]]>No kidding. My dad would never let me do anything until the dishes were done.
He sometimes allowed contests, such as "if you can make more baskets than me out of 10 than you don't have to wash dishes." That was nice, except that he frequently changed the rules so he wouldn't have to do it. Ahh well. If I ever have kids, they're so washing the dishes.
If you have hard water, things rarely get clean in the dishwasher no matter what detergent you use. I've used all kinds of detergents (beware the supercheap dollar-aisle kind, high phosphorus=bad for the environment and doesn't work well anyway. Save $2 at the store and spend an hour rewashing the dishes.) and rinse agents and some, of course, work better than others. The only thing I know that works great nearly every time is a product called Lemi-Shine that you can put in with the detergent. Cleans the hard water crust inside the dishwasher, won't etch glasses, helps get plastic cleaner, etc.
I always turn the dishwasher off before the dry cycle and pull out the racks to air dry. Saves money and gives the dry winter air some needed moisture.
Also, rinsing and even a little pre-washing is required if you always run a full load (which you should!)and have anything starchy-sticky, like mac'n'cheese, cereal, etc that dries into a cement-hard substance. The dishwasher won't get it off and rinsing beats breaking nails chipping it off later. Or anything that stains, like tomato sauce, on a plastic dish.
Also remember that the dishwasher does deal with a lot of yucky gunk and has lots of holes (spray arm, liquid rinse agent dispenser) and crevices (steam vent) it gets into. Take off the vent cover and poke a pipe cleaner through the spray holes at least twice per year to clean them out. Even if it's the landlord's appliance, you eat off the dishes.
I'm an apartment dweller so maybe I just keep getting cheap dishwashers. But if I don't prerinse I will get nasty bits of who knows what floating in bowls, glasses, any concave surface that collects a little water. Really gross.
And chiming in on anything that tends to get sticky and dried out - must be rinsed right away or it will be twice the work later!
]]>A lot depends on your water. I had no trouble with the eco-friendly stuff when I had softer water. Now I live somewhere with hard water and I was about to give up on finding a phosphate-free option that didn't leave crud on my glasses. From what I read the phosphates were mainly there to combat hard water. Citric acid (a main ingredient in rinse aids) also does this. I tried a tablespoon of citric acid with a tablespoon of my hippie phosphate-free/chlorine-free detergent and it worked great. No crud and no build up in the washer. I've seen add-in products for hard water and they were just citric acid (and fragrance). I can buy it in bulk for far less than you'd pay for them. How well it works probably depends on which minerals you have in your water. I believe our water is heavy in calcium carbonate.
Apparently in some parts of Europe that have hard water, they have built in softeners in the dishwasher so you don't have to use phosphates. You have to add softener salt from time to time, though.
]]>@jstonemo: Put a little bit of salt in the water while you cook it and rinse the starch off your pasta before eating it. Pasta is one of the staples around my place (the joys of being on a student budget) and I haven't had problems with it sticking to the plates since I started doing both those things. Any left over pasta dries to the plate, but comes off quite easily. (note: white glue is around 50% starch)
Starch doesn't dissolve readily in cold or even warm water. Temp boost is a MUST when washing anything starchy like pasta or potatoes (potato starch is even worse than wheat starch, but I think rice is the worst).
]]>Someone already posted that video.
]]>To keep the stuff from accumulating in your cups, just pour it out at the end of the rinse cycle so it doesn't have time to dry on.
]]>If you have a family of six, you shouldn't be washing your own dishes, that's what kids are for.
]]>My apartment dishwasher seems to clean my dishes just fine with Electrasol and Jet Dry, and I only run it once a week and never pre-rinse, just scrape off the excess into the trash.
]]>This is a very bad idea in the winter in my house. Thermal shock has broken glasses on the rack in the dishwasher when I have done this. I recommend against this.
]]>Also, I don't understand how powdered dish soap could be better if it leaves dried crap all over my dishes and I now have dried crap imbedded in some of my plastic bowls. It's either the old school dishwashers that are in the apartments I've lived in or something that I'm doing wrong. Regardless, I enjoy knowing my dishes are sanitized and that I'm not going to have white stuff all over my dishes.
]]>Powdered dishwasher soap and powdered laundry detergent always clean best. Some of the many tests you run for both types of soaps is to determine the %solids of the liquid-- since those are the active ingredients. With powdered soaps there's no issue with that. The only thing you have to worry about (with laundry detergents especially) is that they are properly dissolved in water.
YMMV as always with what dishwasher, what settings and what loads you wash. Dishwasher (and laundry) loads standardized. Certain amounts of pre-made dirt (lab-made) and precise amounts foods are dried onto plates and glasses which are then washed with a precise amount of detergent. This standardization is great to rate a washers or a soaps relative vs. competitors; but not necessarily great for your situation.
We have in our condo either a bottom or next-to-bottom of-the-line dishwasher. It works perfectly well for lightly soiled dishes and glasses in a normal load. But here we tend to pile everything in, and nothing short of the superwash+temp boost+heated dry+2 tabs will do it. And it is not like I am leaving chunks of lasagna and oatmeal on everything.
]]>@WiglyWorm: Our dishwasher, recommended by consumer reports in 2007, ONLY cleans well in pots and pans and ONLY drys well with jet dry.
I guess it depends on the dishwasher as well as the water.
]]>My second is the cheapest Frigidaire model, no lights, nothing special at all . . . just on and off. The Frigidaire cleans better than the G.E. ever did.
And, it's absolutely true, powder is cheaper and gets dishes squeaky clean.
]]>Grits/Polenta loving yankee here, and I can attest to this as well. That stuff is like CEMENT. It's an absolute must to prewash!
]]>We just had a dishwasher repair guy come to check out our 5 month old machine on Saturday. An outlet valve was clogged due to what was obviously leftover plastic tabs from the manufacture of the dishwasher plus a lemon seed (that took it over the edge). He said to "always scrape clean thoroughly and rinse the dishes" before putting them in the dishwasher. i.e. he was protecting the dishwasher's ass and saying "damn the dishes".
]]>At one stage in my life I worked for one of the worlds largest white goods manufacturers. I learned from the engineers and trainers for "modern" dishwashers that there is a lot they can handle. Most dishwashers made in the last 10 years or so have a food particle grinder that will take chunks of food and grind them up so they remain in suspension and are then pumped out of the machine. So rinsing isn't necessary.
However, do not believe all the hype you see in the advertising. A lot of it is BS. You may recall seeing an advert for a dishwasher a few years ago that put a whole double layer iced cake in the dishwasher to show how effective at cleaning it was... Well any dishwasher can clean that up since cakes disintegrate in water. That demo was BS. The demo I would love too see is a dishwasher getting all the dishes clean after the teenagers dump them in the machine all willy-nilly... never gets clean in real life.
By the way have you ever noticed that there are two types of people when it comes to loading a dishwasher. Type one loads dishes in an orderly fashion with like dishes together to maximize capacity and faces the food surfaces of the dishes so that they recieve maximum spray action. Type two loads dishes randomly as if, I suspect, they think the dishwasher fills full of water, to the top, and that is how everything gets clean.
and realize the inside of a dishwasher is more like a lawn sprinkler than a laundry tub.]]>Grits are delicious but they do stick to stuff in the sink. Malt-O-Meal is the same way.
*sigh* I wish I had a dishwasher...
]]>I'm a mechanical engineer, but she knows best...
]]>@courtarro: Who leaves enough grits for them to cake on?
]]>@magic8ball: I knew a chemist who did research on detergents. I told me that no soap/detergent actually cleans without the phosphates.
]]>I've been arguing over to pre-clean or not pre-clean with people for years. Other than dumping big chunks of food (that clearly can't fit through the dishwasher's drain) I never clean off my dishes before putting them in the dishwasher. And they always come out perfectly clean. I use "Cascade Complete" for whatever it's worth (and no I don't work for or represent Cascade in any way). There is absolutely no reason to waste the time (and water if that matters to you) pre-cleaning your dishes before putting them in the dishwasher. Even after they come out perfectly clean, people still argue that I didn't do it right. People don't handle seeing a "lazy" method work as well or better than their labor-intensive method so they get defensive about it.
As I always say, the only difference between being lazy and being efficient is the end result. This is a prime example of that principle.
I've always used the light or normal setting depending on how many dishes I have in there... I've never once used the heavy setting, and my dishes always come out clean.
]]>This whole rinse or don't rinse thing really depends on if your dishwasher filters the water and/or has a built-in disposer blade.
Cheap dishwashers (found in most apartments) have a crappy filter that will only keep large items from entering and jamming the pump. If a lemon seed or similar size item is sucked in, it can clog a jet in the wash arm.
Better dishwashers (like my 2 year old Maytag) use a finer screen mesh filter to catch food particles. When it drains, the particles are ground up by a blade before being pumped out. This reduces the chances of food particles (and if any are left due to poor detergent they're smaller).
I don't pre-rinse and wait until it's full (usually 3-4 days). Using Finish Powerball tabs, things come out spotless every time.
One final tip: If glassware starts to get "film" on it due to hard water, pour 2 cups of white vinegar into the dishwasher and run the "rinse & hold" cycle prior to running the normal cycle. I do this about every 3 months and my glassware still looks like new.
]]>Septic systems collect solids anyway - namely feces. They should be pumped out every 2-3 years as it is. The soap shouldn't be an issue.
]]>@jenjen:
ROFL!!!
Brings back memories of when I was 4 and put Mr. Bubble in my grandmother's KitchenAid to "help her do the dishes".
:-)
]]>@bikeoid:
Ditto on the votes for the Finish Powerball tabs.
I live in an area with hard water. The Powerball tabs don't leave food residue (Cascade pacs do) and don't etch glassware.
As for the cycles, I use normal with both the temp boost and sanitize options. A dishwasher is the only appliance requiring water above 120F -- I keep the water heater set at 120 and let the dishwasher make up the difference; it saves me about $15/mo on my electric bill.
]]>A couple more key tips:
Set the rinse agent setting according to your water; the harder (or more mineral) your water is, the higher setting you will need. This is one of the things that rinse aid does is to prevent hard water from sticking to your glasses and leaving spots.
on the flipside
If you have a water softener, use as little detergent as possible, and a "1" setting or no rinse aid at all. Going with the same thinking as the article: detergents and rinse aids are designed to combat dirty dishes AND hard water, which is what's found in many households. No hard water, then your dishes get attacked, and you'll get nasty etched glasses.
]]>If it were just me or even just myself and my husband, that would be one thing, but as it is that definitely doesn't work.
]]>Perhaps people who own top of the line machines which have a feature that disposes of food on the plates (oh how I envy them), can get away without rinsing, but certainly not those of us who are keeping our museum pieces in working order for the benefit of future archaeologists.
]]>Interesting, because all my experience with dishwashers is totally in line with this report.
]]>Just an FYI.
]]>But I love the "pots and pans" setting! It gives me great satisfaction when the dishes are too hot to touch when the cycle is over. Makes me thing everything is clean and disenfected. And, yes, I do have OCD. :)
]]>My clothes washer is about 15 years old, and when we got it from the in-laws when they got their new one, it was covered with hard-water deposits, grime and soap crust. After a few months of using vinegar in there instead of softener, the tub looks brand-spanking new. Wow.
]]>After some experimentation, we found that it runs best on half a coffee scoop of Electrasol powder. We are only on the third box of detergent since we bought it: the previous box lasted 16 months.
]]>@jstonemo: Eat your SpaghettiO's out of the can. Heating them makes no difference. No electricity use, only a spoon to wash.
]]>You need to use blockquote, not quote, and in less than or greater than symbols, not square brackets.]]>
We found that the dish cubes worked better in our 1980's Kitchenaid that came with the current house. When we got a new one we switched to Electrasol powder per the manufacturer instructions. It is cheap and does a great job. We use distilled vinegar in the jet dry dispenser and that solves the water build up on everything.
]]>Pre-rinsing/pre-washing is absolutely necessary. If I had that Maytag that you could put a whole chocolate cake in and it would eat it all up, I wouldn't pre-wash. But, alas - I do not.
]]>Now, those powdered soaps are cheaper because they come in more-easily-shippable containers (cardboard boxes instead of wacky shaped plastic jugs), and because I'm not paying for the water that's dissolving the soap. But working better? I'm surprised.
]]>If the trade off is the detergent "attacking" my dishes, I think I'll live.
]]>Anyone have any further details on why liquid soaps would be "less clean"?
]]>Also did the inspection service check the condition of the baffle in your tank? Its very important that its there and in good condition.
Any questions let me know.
]]>Nothing gets spaghetti-o's off your dishes except for pre-rinsing in the sink. Pasta of any kind is second only to epoxy for its stickiness.
]]>Since I switched to powder with enzymes (phosphate free ALDI store brand)the dishes come out perfect almost every time, I never pre-rinse anything and only do a load 2-3 times a week so the stuff drys on.
I bet that in many cases the water is to blame, I heard that hard water can make many detergents less effective.
It takes forever for hot water to reach my kitchen, so I always run the water in the faucet until it gets hot and then start the dishwasher, maybe that helps some.
]]>The worst detergent I've ever used is Electrasol which always seems like it's sandblasting the plates and glasses in addition to cleaning them.
Pre-washing is generally not needed unless you have leafy greens on a plate. Those tend to become dried out and practically cemented to the plate.
]]>But since the dishes are raging hot by then I can do without heated dry and they come out fine.
]]>@Trai_Dep: If siblings are correct, I guess I'm adopted. T.T
]]>I find the best detergent by far are the combo tablets - 2 colored items that both wash and rinse effectively.
]]>Wow, I feel wonderful now. My laziness when it came to rinsing my dishes has certainly paid off!
(...running to my phone and eagerly calling relatives who berated my dishwasher know-how)
]]>Of course, having been a CR subscriber, I knew these tips already. I just didn't buy any of the higher rated ones. I still ahead buying a one-year old $40 one that washes "good" instead of $350 for a very good.
The 20 year old one that was taken out ... I might repurposed as a car parts washer.
]]>FYI for those with septic systems, the advice is the reverse. I was told by the septic service that did my inspection when I bought my house that solid soaps of all types should be avoided, since they tend to resolidify in the tank and can cause problems as they build up.
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