var json_comments = new Array("
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I_have_something_to_say
May 14, 2009 4:02 PM
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I have a strong feeling we won't see this product hit the market in the US anytime soon. Now if it came with an external camera than would record movies from your TV as they're playing from the DVD back to the hard drive then that might fly.

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4 replies
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jamar0303
May 14, 2009 11:20 PM
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@I_have_something_to_say: Yeah- on the other hand, products like this have been on the Japanese market for quite some time (A PS2 variant called the PSX was sold in Japan- it was basically a PS2/DVR- I wanted one and still do).

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Corporate_guy
May 14, 2009 4:07 PM
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@I_have_something_to_say: If it happens they will settle on some kind of requirement that makes you insert the disk once a month.

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TCama
May 14, 2009 4:50 PM
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@Corporate_guy: There's a good chance of that. And/or make it so that recording expire after a certain period of time.

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Wombatish
May 14, 2009 4:24 PM
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@Corporate_guy: Unless it can also record disks and/or has a USB port or some other kind of data out, this doesn't really seem like it's a big deal at all.

Or unless the HD has just a huge capacity.

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johnva
May 14, 2009 4:39 PM
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@Wombatish: Agreed. If it works like a DVR, then there shouldn't be any real problem with it. DVRs typically use DRM to encrypt the video stored on the hard drives. I'm convinced that what this really is about is CONTROL, not \"piracy\". They just want to control all the ways that people watch video, and don't like the idea of companies that aren't playing ball with them being able to come up with new and innovative ways for people to watch video.

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johnva
May 14, 2009 4:04 PM
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This doesn't sound any different from just ripping the DVDs on your computer. Except that it's MORE locked down with DRM.

Also, the argument that it could \"enable\" copying is kind of garbage since the encryption on DVDs doesn't actually prevent you from making a bit-for-bit copy of the encrypted media. So copying is already inherently enabled by default, without any special software to decrypt DVDs. Instead, the encryption is there to allow the DVD consortium to control which PLAYERS can play DVDs, in order to protect their licensing revenues. The whole argument that DVD encryption is about preventing piracy is fundamentally dishonest.

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4 replies
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secret_curse
May 14, 2009 6:51 PM
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@johnva: It's illegal to rip a CSS encrypted DVD to your computer. I'm not arguing with you because I think it should be illegal, but because it is illegal under the DMCA. You aren't allowed to circumvent copy protection measures. I think it's bullshit and should be repealed, but it's the law.


Making a bit by bit copy of a DVD for personal backup wouldn't be illegal, but decrypting it is. I agree with you 100% that the argument about preventing piracy is dishonest, though.

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johnva
May 14, 2009 7:00 PM
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@secret_curse: I don't think it is clearly spelled out in the law as illegal. It's more like, \"the industry argues that it's not legal\".

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johnva
May 14, 2009 7:02 PM
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@secret_curse: Oh, and my reasoning on that is that doesn't the DMCA actually say something like you can't circumvent a copy protection mechanism? Well, CSS encryption is not a copy protection mechanism, ergo, it's not illegal.

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consumerfan
May 14, 2009 8:54 PM
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@johnva: Also, ripping a CSS encrypted DVD to your computer isn't circumventing copy protection measures, even if CSS encryption were a copy protection measure.

Ripping data is copying data, not decrypting data.

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johnva
May 14, 2009 9:00 PM
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@consumerfan: Depends on what you mean by the term \"ripping\", but yeah. You could just copy the DVDs to your hard drive without decrypting and then play them with a software program containing a licensed codec.

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consumerfan
May 14, 2009 10:02 PM
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@johnva: Well, it's a little confusing because people just expect to copy something without interference.

Ripping is copying audio/video to hard disk. Inline decryption would be an optional process which ought to be transparent to the user, hence the confusion.

But, if we're talking about whether something is legal or not, we need to be specific. Decryption is legal or illegal depending on who is doing it and how.

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TCama
May 14, 2009 4:52 PM
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@johnva: It's not about copying. It's about the studios/distributors being able to decide exactly what people can and cannot do with their movies.

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mbnovik
May 14, 2009 4:06 PM
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What's the big deal about that product? I think that by now only lazy or the stupid ones can't rip a DVD?

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6 replies
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DrGirlfriend
May 14, 2009 5:00 PM
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@mbnovik: I don't know if I'm lazy or stupid, but I tried to rip a DVD to my computer a few months ago and just gave up. I got to a certain point in the process and the thing just would not rip.

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johnva
May 14, 2009 5:10 PM
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@DrGirlfriend: You need better software. Although I think Consumerist might frown on my pointing you to said software, so I'm not going to do it... ;)

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AirIntake
May 14, 2009 9:21 PM
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@johnva: It's not illegal in Canada for me to use DVD Decryter and AutoGK to rip my legally bought DVDs onto my computer.

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secret_curse
May 14, 2009 6:46 PM
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@johnva: The most annoying part of the situation for me is that you are violating the DMCA by ripping a DVD because you are circumventing the CSS encryption on the disc, so it is illegal. It's perfectly legal to make a backup copy of a CD, cassette tape, vinly record, or VHS tape because that's allowed for under fair use and you don't have to bypass encryption to do it. So, if a DVD isn't protected by CSS or any other encryption, it is legal to make a fair use backup for your own personal use. But, you can't bypass the encryption or you're suddenly a criminal.


The DMCA needs to be reformed or (I'd prefer) repealed because it doesn't stop piracy. It just inconveniences end users.

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johnva
May 14, 2009 7:08 PM
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@secret_curse:

Here's my argument: the CSS isn't actually a copy protection mechanism; it's a playback control mechanism. I can copy it infinitely without breaking the CSS, so the CSS does nothing to prevent copying. Therefore, it doesn't fall under the DMCA. At least, that's the argument I'd make in court. I don't believe the mere assertion that it is a copy protection mechanism should be enough to count as making it illegal; otherwise, the industry could criminalize anything they wanted.

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nataku8_e30
May 14, 2009 4:08 PM
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@mbnovik: Just because it's incredibly easy to break the law doesn't mean that a company should be able to sell a product that breaks the law. Now, whether it's actually doing that or not is going to have to be decided by someone who's a bit more familiar with copyright laws than I am.

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shepd
May 15, 2009 3:32 PM
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@nataku83:

Some products that exist which are regularly used in the commission of crimes against ridiculously easy to break laws:

- Bicycles (Have you EVER seen someone ride one that spends more time following the rules of the road vs. violating them?)
- Sneakers (You haven't jaywalked today? Really? You need to get out more!)
- Cars (You've never done something illegal with one today? You remembered to use your turn signal 300 yards before every single turn and to leave 3 seconds of space between your car and the next at all times today?)

That's just a short list. And we're talking about the primary functions of these products, not some sort of weird side effect. Ban them all!

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zandar
May 15, 2009 1:08 AM
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@nataku83: \"Just because it's incredibly easy to break the law doesn't mean that a company should be able to sell a product that breaks the law.\"

This is why they outlawed computers in the sixties.

Hey, what's this, some sort of alternative nonsensical universe where anybody can buy the tools required to pirate movies and music! Whee!

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nataku8_e30
May 15, 2009 3:32 PM
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@zandar: Apparently no one in this thread bothered to read my second sentence?

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johnva
May 14, 2009 4:27 PM
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@nataku83: Ripping a DVD that you legally own is not breaking the law, arguably, if you are just doing it in order to archive your collection or make it more conveniently accessible for yourself.

And you don't need to break the \"copy protection\" in order to copy DVDs, technically. So this isn't even an anti-copying measure. It's just an attempt to control how digital video is used so that they can extract additional revenue themselves from all possible distribution channels. They probably don't want people to be able to do this because they want to re-sell you your whole DVD collection as a digital download in a few years.

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Guvmint_Cheese
May 14, 2009 4:43 PM
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@johnva: That's pretty much what has prevented me from converting to Blu Ray. Too much of a pain to archive anything on my HTPC.

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johnva
May 14, 2009 4:48 PM
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@Guvmint_Cheese: Yeah, that's the really stupid thing. They are shooting themselves in the foot by fighting against things like this that actually go to great lengths to PREVENT it being used as a tool of piracy. If they would just cooperate with external companies who want to make products like this, they could help people use their movies the way they want to, get some input into how the copy protection works, AND get some additional licensing revenues probably. But no, they try to stamp out all new technology that they don't control instead. The end result is that everyone just ends up using software that cracks their DRM to do what they want anyway.

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KingPsyz
May 14, 2009 4:07 PM
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What the hell is wrong with us as a nation? When did we let corporate intrests take over?


When did the hand off occur?


How did our ancestors survive without HOAs?
Did Davinci just sell people a license to his inventions and works?
Who would sue someone playing a phonograph publicly before the RIAA was invented?
How did the movie industry survive with any Tom, Dick, or Harry could see a movie projected on a large outdoor screen from the street?


This shouldn't even be an issue, if you buy a DVD it's yours. There's no EULA on the DVD box, and even if there was THERE SHOULDN'T BE. You buy something you should be able to do whatever you want with it.


If I want to make a mobile for my baby out of a Simpson's box set, or save a season's worth of a show to a hard drive, or if I want to project The Venture Bros. on the side of my house I should be able to.


The whole argument from the MPAA about stopping piracy is horseshit. Pirates will still make ripped DVDs and sell them at mom & pop liquor stores despite you denying me an awesome piece of hardware that could save me a alot of hassle.


The only one loosing here is the very customers they should be coddling because they're being forced into the pirates loving arms with their bully tactics against fair use.

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14 replies
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Hybriddeathdealer
May 15, 2009 6:38 AM
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@PSN: kingpsyz:

I rarely reply, but your question hit the nail on the head. The economic crisis, the FDA not being able to protect consumers, patients unable to afford the supposed world's best medical care, law enforcement working for drug companies & protecting their turf, the U.S. Political & Judicial systems becoming corrupt beyond repair. It happened when the Texas conservative think tanks where able to put together a plan that has spanned at least a decade, with a history that goes all the way back to the first 'Right to Work' (Right to Corruption) State's induction. PAC money was a brilliant idea that has put corporate money at the forefront of all our current problems today. If you don't like progress and you want to keep a Nation of indentured servants. You do this by underfunding the United Nations and render it useless. You tear down Government oversight by underfunding it to the point of uselessness. then you point your finger at it and claim how ineffective Government is. You use fear of invasion, or attack to open the Social Security funds, spending them as fast as you can, speeding the agency's demise. The upside is you use the money to open up oil markets in middle eastern countries. You underfund Public Education in an effort to kill it and send it to the private sector. (No money in Education by the way, this will *never* work.) You use the 'baby boomers' #1 fear of paying higher taxes and you use that to your advantage. Basically this is something that could take hours to explain, but your question is the most relevant of all. Corporations are actively tearing down the American infrastructure to remove as many Tax burdens from the corporate sector as possible. Judges are beholding to corporate funding. The ideas from Texas keep on flowing and now the 10th Amendment movement. We already went through one war funded by Slavery. Now they want another revolutionary war and your very souls are at risk. America is being torn apart by greed. Problem is, nobody believes it and it may already be too late.

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johnfrombrooklyn
May 14, 2009 7:36 PM
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@PSN: kingpsyz: Do you have the slightest idea how packaged entertainment is manufactured, marketed, and sold? By your logic, you should be able to walk into Best Buy and walk out with all the DVDs of movies you once viewed in a theatre.

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From the cubicle of PGibbons
May 15, 2009 2:20 AM
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@johnfrombrooklyn: Only if you can produce your ticket stubs for the receipt-checking door nazi.

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West Coast Secessionist
May 14, 2009 10:28 PM
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@johnfrombrooklyn: Are you on drugs? Actually, he's saying the complete opposite. He's saying that you own the disc you bought, not that you should get free copies of things because you own a \"license\" to it.

What you said is actually the logical conclusion of the MPAA's claims, not PSN's. Since they claim that when you buy a DVD you own a license to watch that movie, they should cheerfully replace any broken DVDs in order for you to continue to exercise your licensed right to watch the movie. They should also give you a copy of the movie in any future format of your choice for just the cost of the media, since you already bought the license to watch it when you bought the DVD.

This is actually how software licensing works--Through their business sales, you can buy from Microsoft a Media Kit (the CDs/DVDs and a \"CD-Key\" code) of Office (etc) for about $10-15 and a license to run said program for like $500. This allows you to buy only the media you need. A media kit has no license and no CD-Key, and it gives you no rights. A license gives you the right to run the program regardless of whether you own the media kit (CDs).

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From the cubicle of PGibbons
May 15, 2009 2:25 AM
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@West Coast Secessionist: I wondered about the \"licensing\" mumbo-jumbo too. I've got a few bad CDs (that cost me well over $100 a while back) and would love to continue exercising the \"license\" I paid for. In fact, if any of my DVDs fail to play after a decade or so, I expect the MAFIAA to provide me replacement discs. After all, I didn't \"buy\" them, I \"licensed\" them - and if THEIR media fails then they are restricting my \"license.\"

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johnva
May 15, 2009 2:06 PM
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@PGibbons: They currently want it both ways. They want the benefits (for them) of \"licensing\" their content (including being able to restrict what you can do with it), but if it screws you, they don't want to be responsible and want it treated it like a physical product that's your problem if it breaks.

Unlike most movie or music companies, most reputable software companies that use licenses WILL replace your damaged physical media if you mail it to them, etc. So at least in that case the licensing thing goes both ways...they're still \"supporting\" their product years after you bought it.

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trujunglist
May 14, 2009 10:08 PM
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@johnfrombrooklyn:

That's not what he's arguing at all. He's arguing that things you purchase should actually be yours. In the case of the theatre, you pay to see the movie on a large screen with good sound in a stinky room full of annoying people. You're not paying to always be able to watch it, you're paying for the 1-time experience. Kind of like hookers vs. girlfriends.
In the case of buying a DVD, you're obviously buying it to watch it more than once.

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KingPsyz
May 14, 2009 9:30 PM
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@johnfrombrooklyn:
Reading Comprehension... CATCH THE FEVER!


Where do I state such an outrageous thing?


If I buy something, I should own my copy of that item wholly. Should I be able to open a movie theatre and starts screening it for $1 a head? No.


But I should not be treated like a criminal for wanting to use what I bought.

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AirIntake
May 14, 2009 9:26 PM
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@johnfrombrooklyn: Perhaps I should be able to and only pay for the cost of manufacture of the disc and packaging and shipping. Because I already paid for the license to view the content.

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giggitygoo
May 14, 2009 5:05 PM
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@PSN: kingpsyz:

The problem is we send nothing besides lawyers to Congress who know next to nothing about technology. (Judges too) They get \"informed\" from lobbyists from interests like the MPAA, who end up writing good portions of the legislation.

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Sean Masters
May 14, 2009 4:33 PM
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@PSN: kingpsyz: as much as I may not like it, when you buy a DVD you are not buying anything but a license to access the data on the DVD.

The RIAA and MPAA both need to die fiery, painful deaths. Cut out the middlemen and let the actors and writers unions own the material they're producing.

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TCama
May 14, 2009 4:58 PM
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@Sean Masters: Wait, which middleman? The companies that make the content own it; the artists are employees of those companies. Cutting out the special interest groups is one thing (one thing that I support fully). But you said you want the actors and writers unions to own the content, so that would be cutting out the companies too ...

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johnva
May 14, 2009 4:43 PM
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@Sean Masters: Why shouldn't the first-sale doctrine apply to DVDs just like every other product? The only reason these industries get special \"protection\" is because of their corruption of the government.

In the meantime, I will happily continue ripping my DVDs to my external hard drive. I feel totally morally justified in doing so, and there is little way I could be caught doing it.

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Erwos
May 14, 2009 4:50 PM
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@johnva: It does apply to DVDs. But first sale doctrine has nothing to do with fair use.

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johnva
May 14, 2009 4:55 PM
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@Erwos: Sorry, you're correct. I was mixing up the terms.

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KingPsyz
May 14, 2009 4:37 PM
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@Sean Masters:
Again WHERE DOES IT STATE THIS ON THE PACKAGING IN PLAIN SIGHT?


What retailers inform the customer at time of purchase?


When a kid gets busted for shoplifting do they call the cops and say he was trying to illegally borrow the content on the discs?

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Mari Walker
May 15, 2009 6:25 AM
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@PSN: kingpsyz: That's like saying that traffic lights should have a sign telling you that running a red light is illegal.

Haven't you ever noticed that big, sometimes red, warning that plays before the movie starts? The one from the FBI, saying that most of the stuff you want to do is, in fact, illegal?

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KingPsyz
May 15, 2009 6:34 AM
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@Mari Walker:


Since you couldn't be arsed to read down a bit further I present this shit that happened earlier today:
@TCama:
Oh you mean the warning that plays on my television AFTER I HAVE ALREADY MADE MY PURCHASE, OPENED THE PRODUCT, AND PLACED IT IN A REPLAY DEVICE ALL BEFORE THIS WAS 'DISCLOSED'?
@TCama:
Again why is it the law? Because the MPAA and RIAA conned the FBI who should be working on mafia shit, terrorist threats, and aliens into enforcing a failure of a business model?


Because law abiding consumers are punished because they can't figure out how to stop their work from being pirated?

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TCama
May 14, 2009 4:59 PM
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@PSN: kingpsyz: Also, it's the law. The packaging (or retailers or whatever) doesn't have to remind you of the law.

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johnva
May 14, 2009 5:09 PM
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@TCama: Corruption is the only reason that it's the law. I have no moral qualms about breaking a law that doesn't hurt anyone else and restricts what I want to do for no reason that benefits society at large.

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TCama
May 14, 2009 4:54 PM
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@PSN: kingpsyz: You know that FBI warning before the movie plays? That's it. It says you can only use it for personal viewing, no commercial viewings, no mass viewings, no copying, etc.

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KingPsyz
May 14, 2009 6:20 PM
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@TCama:
Oh you mean the warning that plays on my television AFTER I HAVE ALREADY MADE MY PURCHASE, OPENED THE PRODUCT, AND PLACED IT IN A REPLAY DEVICE ALL BEFORE THIS WAS 'DISCLOSED'?
@TCama:
Again why is it the law? Because the MPAA and RIAA conned the FBI who should be working on mafia shit, terrorist threats, and aliens into enforcing a failure of a business model?


Because law abiding consumers are punished because they can't figure out how to stop their work from being pirated?

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Scuba Steve
May 14, 2009 4:15 PM
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@PSN: kingpsyz: I would say it happened about the time of the creation of the federal reserve. But really it was just handed off from landowners to businesses.

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MustyBuckets
May 14, 2009 4:09 PM
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Halting all innovation due to fear of its possible use is frustrating.

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3 replies
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downwithmonstercable
May 14, 2009 4:42 PM
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@MustyBuckets: I think that might be the quote of the century.

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JohnQPublic
May 14, 2009 4:09 PM
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I don't like Flight of the Conchords. The musical numbers, which I gather are the main attraction of the show, are especially boring...so I hope the judge stops this.

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Bluth_Cornballer
May 14, 2009 4:10 PM
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Much like the Cardinals season, this will all ultimately end in disappointment. The judge is Santonio Holmes.

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1 replies
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LionelEHutz
May 14, 2009 4:14 PM
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What's next, banning the sale of computers?

Morons.

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2 replies
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johnva
May 14, 2009 4:34 PM
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@LionelEHutz: Yes, the movie and music industries would LOVE to ban the sale of general-purpose computers. They'd prefer we all use locked-down crippled devices that we can't control the software of ourselves.

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discordance, the goddamn boss
May 14, 2009 4:17 PM
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This isn't an amazing device at all. They've had DVD players with internal HDs in Japan (and a few other regions) for years now.

Take the Panasonic DMR-E50, for instance.

Heck, they talk about them in the Genshiken supplemental book and that was published in like 2005 or something.

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2 replies
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Wombatish
May 14, 2009 4:29 PM
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@discordance, the goddamn boss: \"In Japan\".

Amazing is most certainly context sensitive.

Besides, even if it's not amazing, that doesn't mean that they should block the sale of it just because someone might do something illegal with it, as long as it has a valid, legal purpose (it does). Restrict the sale? Maybe. But block?

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HogwartsAlum
May 14, 2009 8:42 PM
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@Wombatish:

I want to be able to \"tape\" movies without paying for a subscription service (TiVo, etc). Like when I had my VCR. What is wrong with these people?

I thought we settled this when people were taping TV shows.

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johnva
May 14, 2009 9:08 PM
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@HogwartsAlum:

I thought we settled this when people were taping TV shows.

Our government has gotten even more corrupt since then, so they're hoping they will have more success this time.

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GMFish
May 14, 2009 4:19 PM
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@nataku83: \"Just because it's incredibly easy to break the law doesn't mean that a company should be able to sell a product that breaks the law.\"

Of course you're assuming that the DMCA should have been enacted in the first place. The law was passed to stop digital piracy, which it clearly does not do. It's real purpose is to eliminate otherwise perfectly legal new business models. Such as the case at issue here.

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5 replies
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Tonguetied
May 14, 2009 6:45 PM
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@GMFish: You're right it should not have been enacted into law. But you don't get to decide which lawa you obey and which ones you don't. At least without consequences.

I can think of dozens of laws that I don't think should be on the books and I bet so can anybody else. But a law is a law...

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AirIntake
May 14, 2009 9:22 PM
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@Tonguetied: Blindly following the law because it is the law is how the Godwin's law gets invoked.

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johnva
May 14, 2009 7:06 PM
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@Tonguetied: They don't have any way to catch people who do this and don't spread the copies around, so in practice it IS a law without consequences.

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dragonfire81
May 14, 2009 4:20 PM
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@GMFish: My question is: If we can have DVRs, why can't we have these? It's basically the same technology. You can already use a DVR to record copyrighted shows and movies.

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Wombatish
May 14, 2009 4:26 PM
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@dragonfire81: I always thought that fell under the \"personal use\" thing (especially since those movies were broadcast, or purchased (if PPV or something)

But it seems like this product would too, if it can't actually write copies.

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Anonymous
May 14, 2009 4:20 PM
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For the technologically savvy, most of them either already can, or can figure out how to copy a DVD to back it up on their Hard drive.

As such, this is not anything new really. It is just a lousy version of what already exists. The Big Deal is that this is from a well known company, rather than some shady online website.

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frank64
May 14, 2009 4:23 PM
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I have the DMR-E50. You can copy only DVD's that aren't protected, which is very few.

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DoubleEcho
May 14, 2009 4:25 PM
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I'd be excited about this device, if I didn't have the sinking suspicion it would display \"Buffering\" every 10 seconds on the screen while playing the damn DVD.

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davere
May 14, 2009 4:33 PM
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Cardinals? I thought we were supposed to get more cats.

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rworne
May 14, 2009 4:35 PM
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Wasn't this settled before with Kaleidescape?


Kaleidescape was a DVD jukebox that ripped DVDs to an internal drive and served them up on a home network. It circumvented the DMCA by copying the files and leavign the DRM intact. It then used a fully licensed decrypter (CSS from the DVDCCA!) to playback the materials much like a normal DVD player.


They were sued by the DVDCCA and won mainly because someone at DVDCCA wasn't paying attention when they were selling licenses.


Fun read:
[www.eetimes.com]

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3 replies
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Mitch Kocen
May 14, 2009 5:34 PM
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@rworne: Also, the K-Scape costs like, a million billion dollars. It'd be nice if this one was something that I could buy.

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Traveshamockery
May 14, 2009 4:56 PM
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@rworne: As Erwos said, the Kaleidescape episode only benefited Kaleidescape, and allows them to continue operating under the license THEY signed. Fortunately for them, they now basically have a monopoly on that technology because they're the only ones who can sell it due to changes in the CSS license.

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Erwos
May 14, 2009 4:52 PM
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@rworne: They changed the CSS license to prevent any future Kalidescape episodes. The precedent set in that case is not going to be helpful for Real.

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shepd
May 14, 2009 5:31 PM
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ROFLMAO! This from the company that sued Streambox over Streambox VCR? Good Lord man. I can only hope they lose. Not because I don't think you all deserve to be able to record your DVDs to hard drives (Although, honestly, who can't do that already anyways?) but because it would be just deserts.

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JGKojak
May 14, 2009 5:32 PM
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A few general responses:


1) Its not \"piracy\" to make a convenience copy for your own personal use-- no different than taping TV shows and storing them on my DVR- NOTE that some in the industry don't like DVRs either.


2) Its not an accepted facet of law that you \"pre-emptively\" prevent people from committing crimes. Otherwise, there would be no guns. You make movies conveniently easy to use/copy, that does NOT automatically mean you will make copies for all your friends.


3) I'm fairly tech savvy, but I hate ripping DVDs to my computer-- since my computer is NOT hooked to my main, big TV, it really does me no good. Most people would LOVE a small device that simply let's them rip movies to a hard drive for viewing- heck, I'd combine it with a DVR.


4) Like always, they're idiots-- when you force me to rip to my computer, I am MORE likely to burn DVDs, give 'em to my buddies. If I ripped to a DVR that was \"locked\" (i.e. no USB/firewire port- could only copy to another HD in real time), I would probably not bother ripping to my computer and copying for anyone. So, forcing me to use my computer makes me MORE likely to commit the supposed \"crime\", not less.


5) Something like this would be pretty easy to build- so they could sell the software (or make it available opensource) and people could LEGALLY build these machines anyway. You can't put the genie back in the bottle.


6) You know what movies and TV shows I buy? QUALITY that I want to own and watch over and over. You know what I \"pirate\"? Crap. If I didn't pirate the crap, I'd not buy it and find better things to do with my time. So... I have a distinct feeling that if the QUALITY of the product went up... your profits would go up. Look into it.

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redkamel
May 15, 2009 5:21 AM
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@JGKojak: I am of the same mind.

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johnva
May 14, 2009 5:53 PM
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@JGKojak: The software (open source) to do this is already available. Also, my Tivo lets me watch MPG-2 movies streamed from a computer on on my TV. DVDs are MPG-2, so I've been archiving my DVDs on a large computer hard drive and then using my Tivo to view them on the TV. Quite easy and elegant, although it's maybe not as user-friendly as a device like this since it does involve setting up several different pieces of software plus home networking (you need the DVD ripper + the software to serve out the movies to the Tivo). This is a major reason I still use a Tivo and not a cable company DVR.

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Matt Singerman
May 14, 2009 5:38 PM
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Netflix + MacTheRipper + HandBrake + Network-Attached Storage + Xbox 360 = who needs to buy things?

That is illegal, though.

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CharlieInSeattle
May 14, 2009 7:55 PM
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@Matt Singerman: = a whole lot more in cost than a stand alone system would cost.

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trujunglist
May 14, 2009 10:15 PM
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@CharlieInSeattle:

No. I assume they'll sell these for at least $200. The Xbox 360 is only $150. Netflix is only $15 or whatever. The software is free or donationware.
Plus, the Xbox, unlike the standalone device, can do a lot more, unless the standalone has Netflix streaming, 360 games, etc....
The only chance that this is somehow a better value is if they charge less than $100 or so, which is about as likely as Paris Hilton becoming a nun.

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CharlieInSeattle
May 14, 2009 11:19 PM
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@trujunglist: You've left out a couple of items, computers to encode aren't free. NAS's aren't free. Spending time with your grandma, inlaws, etc to show them how to do this isn't free. You are assuming everyone in the world is a nerd.

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johnva
May 14, 2009 5:55 PM
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@Matt Singerman: Yes, ripping Netflix movies is illegal. Doing the same thing with DVDs you own arguably is not.

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chapoec
May 14, 2009 6:39 PM
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A PS3, Xbox 360, or any DVD player with a USB plugin can do this. Just rip your DVD from the computer. Using anydvd(or the freeware dvd43) to decrypt and your favorite ripper like handbrake or SUPER to get your video file. Afterdawn.com is your friend because they have many guides on how to do this.

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CharlieInSeattle
May 14, 2009 11:20 PM
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@chapoec: Actually if you have linux installed on a PS3, you can not only rip DVD's but you can rip bluray as well without any added hardware.

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parad0x360
May 14, 2009 6:57 PM
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I have one of those, its called a Windows Media Center. I ripped about 200 of my 600+ DVD collection to quite a few hard drives which equal about 1.5 terabytes in storage. It sits in my TV stand and is controlled by my Harmony remove. I love it!

Sure it took a little while to copy them all over but I no longer need to hunt for disks. My PC also does a better job of upsampling the movie to 1080p then any normal upsampling dvd player does because I can apply filters to make it look as good as possible. It cost me like $600 to build, most of the price was from the Hard Drives but since I bought them a couple years ago I could probably make the same PC for half that price since storage prices are alot lower.

If that isnt your cup of tea the Xbox 360 works as an excellent media center as well.

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johnfrombrooklyn
May 14, 2009 7:32 PM
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How much are DVDs now? $15 at most? Thanks. But I long ago realized that buying a DVD for $15 (or renting it for even less) is a lot more cost effective for my life than sitting in front of my computer and fiddling with Hand Brake and all these other ripping programs.

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Megalomania
May 15, 2009 12:25 AM
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@johnfrombrooklyn: If it were not for these laws, you would be able to get far better ripping programs or automated ripping hardware (like this DVD player) to take all the difficulty out.

Consider this - you pay for the DVD, but whenever you want to watch the movie, you have to sit through bullshit like the FBI warning and anything else they want to mark as unskippable. They're literally stealing time from you each time you want to enjoy your purchase. If you ever move, you need to take your whole DVD collection with you. And now, if you want your movies to look better you have to buy them AGAIN on blu-ray because you need to pay for the disc, which they tell you means nothing since you're \"Really\" paying for the license.

The industry currently has their cake and eats it too while we just look at the crumbs.

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mac-phisto
May 14, 2009 7:34 PM
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umm...lite-on had a dvd-recorder with HDD that allowed you to record movies that has been sold here in the US since 2005. i know it works - i have one.

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mac-phisto
May 14, 2009 7:38 PM
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@mac-phisto: my bad...i forgot that was due to an exploit that was later fixed with a firmware update (which i didn't install, of course).

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johnfrombrooklyn
May 14, 2009 7:40 PM
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What we're going to start seeing more and more is time sensitive entertainment like American Idol and Dancing with the Stars and more newsmagazines. If companies can't make money on DVD sales of sitcoms and quality shows, they'll just quit making them. We'll have more and more cheap reality shows because they're only worth something when they're aired. Nobody bothers to buy DVDs of the Bachelor.

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jayphat
May 14, 2009 10:37 PM
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@johnfrombrooklyn: Can't make money? Are you serious? How about the OVERLY rediculous price you are charged at a theater to see a \"quality\" film? Don't tell me thats to cover wages and for maintenance. THOSE BASTARDS HAVE THE SAME MOLD GROWING ON THE CEILING OF THAT THEATER THAT WAS THERE IN 1995!! The people behind the counter make minimum wage. OH, BOOHOO, the poor studios. If they wouldn't make such a big deal of this, less and less people would know you could do it. How many people knew about Napster BEFORE they were sued? How many knew immeadiately after?

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johnva
May 14, 2009 8:57 PM
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@johnfrombrooklyn: Why would ripping DVDs cut into DVD sales? You have to have the DVD before you can rip it.

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CharlieInSeattle
May 14, 2009 7:46 PM
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RealNetworks also filed a anti-trust suit against the DVD Copy Control Association today: [www.bizjournals.com]

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johnva
May 14, 2009 8:58 PM
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@CharlieInSeattle: Good. It's about time someone did, as what they are doing is clearly an antitrust violation.

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fatcop
May 14, 2009 8:39 PM
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Just don't sell them in California.

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LightningSt
May 14, 2009 9:01 PM
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Sounds to me like they should also look into banning Lap Tops, net books, computers, flash drives. They're probably pissed that you can store the data. Ridiculous.

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wayneschmidt
May 14, 2009 9:42 PM
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Ill stick with my Computer FFS, who cares what the studios want they are greedy and expect you to pay for a movie then pay for it again if you want to re-encode into a lesser format for your portable media device. Ridiculous!!!

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gman863
May 15, 2009 7:56 AM
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As noted in earlier posts, anyone with basic knowledge of a PC (Windows or Linux) can find dozens of free software programs to rip, copy and/or convert any \"protected\" content into a common file format (such as MPEG) that can be recorded to or played from a Hard Disk.


While this device will make it easier on those who still seek guidance from \"The Video Professor\", any attempt to ban it will only help increase the sale of \"Home Theatre\" PCs and the amount of free money, pizza and beer geeks like myself receive for visiting friends' houses to pimp out their new PC with extra software.

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missDZ
May 15, 2009 6:25 PM
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That machine sounds evil, I guess I'll just have to keep illegally downloading seasons of TV shows so I can marathon the entire series whenever I want... It would be just wrong for the courts to allow the sale of a device that requires you to actually purchase a DVD before you can watch it as you please.

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synergy
May 16, 2009 2:05 AM
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So... how is this different from old timey VCRs other than the fact that it's digital??

Stupid.

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