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Anonymous
May 13, 2009 4:27 PM
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I get it.. they are ensuring that the dangerous crib is no longer in use-- that is the point

they COULD offer to do a replacement cost authorization on your credit card, ship, and then you send in the parts- but it's a damn good way to make sure that the unsafe articles are in fact retired from service.

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gauden44
May 15, 2009 4:06 AM
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@KyleMandarano: That's exactly what I thought of too. They want the screws to make sure it's no longer in use.

But that makes too much sense...

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Brontide
May 13, 2009 4:28 PM
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I went through some hoops with a carseat recall which were similar. You had to mail proof of destruction back before they would send you the new unit. In this case they wanted the cut strap from the unit.

Thankfully our daughter was growing out of that unit anyways. We went through the recall because we were planning on having another.

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Velifer
May 13, 2009 5:51 PM
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@snowmoon: The only problem here is that these cribs ship with about three times as many screws and bolts as you need to put them together.

It'd be nothing to run to Home Depot and have this thing back together in time for Darwin Jr.'s afternoon nap.

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fantomesq
May 13, 2009 6:14 PM
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@Velifer: Wonderful, bypass the manufacturer's proof of destruction to keep a known defective crib on the market...

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Velifer
May 14, 2009 8:41 PM
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@fantomesq: Somebody fell into the sarchasm. Ever hear of Mr. Darwin's ideas?

It is a serious issue though. I think these things will be popping up on Craigslist.

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Darrone
May 13, 2009 4:30 PM
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Remember, good parents also remove the baby from the crib before they return it.

Went through 3 kids before i learned that one.

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mariospants
May 13, 2009 7:13 PM
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@Darrone: Hey, I actually found that funny. Good job.


Phil, cute kid.

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tripnman
May 13, 2009 4:32 PM
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Props to Babies R' Us for their notification program. Our family purchased one of these defective cribs a year and a half ago and we were notified of the recall last week by e-mail. Our son so far has not managed to break through the offending slats.

The props end there, however, now that I am working with Jardine. Their recall process is ridiculous. The agent I spoke with told me to purchase a new crib on our dime (3,600 of them, actually), pay for delivery, assemble it and then disassemble the old one and send in the parts. Then, weeks or months later, we will receive a voucher to credit us for the purchase. Supposedly, we can take that voucher to Babies R' Us for a refund. We'd be out the costs of delivery and the 1% increase in sales tax that has happened since the original purchase. What I'm not clear on is whether or not Babies R' Us will put money back on my card or if we will have a much-less-useful store credit.

Grrrrr....

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fantomesq
May 13, 2009 4:44 PM
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@tripnman: The manufacturer is only liable for the cost of the item - not the cost of delivery or the sales tax increase - look at it this way, you are trading a used, defective crib for a brand new, non-defective one. Its your win.

What solution would you be happy with that guarantees the manufacturer destruction of the old crib?

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tripnman
May 13, 2009 4:55 PM
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@fantomesq: I would like to see their instructions reversed. They send me a voucher for a new crib, I use that for purchase and then send them proof of destruction. Sure, this is open to fraud, but hey, they are the ones that sold defective products.

Alternatively, it appears that the recall has to do with the side slats on our particular model. How about they use their existing logistics chain and allow confirmed purchasers of the product to pick up the replacement parts at a Babies R'Us in exchange for the defective ones. Then, we can turn this around in a day with no additional cost to the consumer.

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fantomesq
May 13, 2009 5:02 PM
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@tripnman: When a recall happens, the manufacturer is under federal court mandate to ensure destruction of the offending products - any plan that has loopholes that allow the offending product to remain on the market after destruction opens the manufacturer to huge court fines.

Babies R Us probably is NOT the only retailer stepping in to help consumers... Its just the only one we've tripped across in this discussion.

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Velifer
May 14, 2009 8:43 PM
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@fantomesq: The vouchers being sent by Jardine are only good at Toys R Us and Babies R Us.

Any other company accepting them would get my business in a hurry.

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fantomesq
May 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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It is not unreasonable for the manufacturer to require either return of the crib or proof of destruction to issue you the credit - the OP is complaining about both solutions. The manufacturer would prefer you destroy the crib and simply send proof of destruction (the screws) since shipping the entire crib would be onerous. They are doing YOU a favor. Surely you would have complained if you had to ship the crib?

The manufacturer needs to ensure that the now credited crib does not return to the market, as they very likely would without this.

The retailer needs the entire crib to ensure that they get credit from the manufacturer for the return and again is doing you the favor of dealing with the manufacturer on your behalf. They will probably be instructed to return the screws and labels just as you have.

If the OP is not happy with either solution, what solution would you be happy with?

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Blackadar
May 13, 2009 4:46 PM
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@fantomesq: It's actually pretty easy - send the voucher under the condition that if they don't return the screws in 30 days after receipt of the voucher, you'll get billed for the amount of the voucher.


As it stands, if you don't have a Babys-R-Us in the area, to return your unsafe product for a safe one, you're forced to have your baby sleep on the floor for a few weeks? No, it's not reasonable...it's a program designed to prevent consumers from returning unsafe proudcts.

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fantomesq
May 13, 2009 4:58 PM
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@Blackadar: Right, and that is very likely what they are doing with Babies R Us. The problem with doing that with consumers is that a significant fraction of these will take both cribs and run by closing out the card that the voucher is secured against.

Understand that the manufacturer is typically under federal court mandate to destroy the offending products - and any plan that has loopholes to allow the offending product to stay on the market can earn them huge fines.

I'm sorry that the manufacturer's process inconvenienced the OP. Babies R Us had a more consumer-friendly plan that met the same goals, but the OP still wasn't happy. There is no win-win solution that still meets the court's mandate.

Bad consumers (NOT the OP but those who would take both cribs and run) make the world more difficult for all of us.

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shepd
May 13, 2009 5:20 PM
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@fantomesq:

*D'oh*, next time I'll make them pay BEFORE I send out the parts!

I mean, seriously, computer companies have been doing this for a decade or more. It works like this:

- Process charge for replacement unit against CC.
- Once money is in their hands, they ship the replacement.
- You put in new part, crap part goes in box. Return shipping labels come with box.
- When they receive your box of crap, they process a refund against your CC.

If you fail to return the box of crap, they fail to process a refund. Not hard and it is currently being VERY successfully applied by computer parts manufacturers--these are people who have RAZOR THIN margins, so you can be assured people making cribs can afford to do this.

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fantomesq
May 13, 2009 5:47 PM
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@shepd: You're correct. IF the consumer were buying a replacement crib from the same manufacturer this would work. Two things though - one, many of the consumers are feeling \"once burnt\" by the recall and won't consider the replacement crib from the same manufacturer and two, the computer companies here are not under threat of a federal mandate.

I agree though that charging the customer for the whole replacement up front and processing a rebate after the fact does in fact solve the issue... this is the same solution Babies R Us suggested - buy a new crib, send for the rebate, process the rebate as a refund.

The OP appears to want the refund first, then the new purchase and last the old crib return - it doesn't and won't work like that.

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dave_coder
May 13, 2009 4:35 PM
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Well it's a inconvenience for you but the point of the recall is to make sure that these beds are no longer in use. They're not just gonna give you a new crib and let you keep the old one.

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Murph1908
May 14, 2009 1:39 PM
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@dave_coder:
Exactly.

If they don't take it out of commission. A kid could get injured in it and they'd still be liable, even though they recalled it and provided a replacement.

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fantomesq
May 13, 2009 4:38 PM
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Oh, and Phil, clever title but unnecessarily sensationalistic and wholly inaccurate - as you're wording indicates that Jardine is not honoring the recall. A manufacturer not honoring a recall is a serious issue, especially on a baby product. A manufacturer requiring proof of destruction is not and hardly ranks as a consumer issue. Clever title but it fails on so many counts

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jbviau
May 13, 2009 4:41 PM
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I spoke to Babies R Us/Toys R Us corporate (1-800-961-5984) since our son's crib was recalled. Right, to avoid the \"baby sleeping on the floor\" problem you have to buy a new crib on your dime while you're waiting for your voucher to be sent after returning the hardware on the recalled crib. Once you get the voucher, Babies R Us will reimburse you for the amount you paid for the new crib up to the full amount of the voucher. You can get reimbursed for shipping also on top of that, but only if the crib you buy online is listed as \"online only.\" Kind of a hassle, but I guess it could be worse.

Here's a helpful link:
[www5.toysrus.com]

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Shadowfire
May 13, 2009 4:42 PM
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Did the instructions that came with the packet tell you how to disassemble the crib? It might have been fun to throw the whole thing in a giant box and make them pay for oversized box shipping. Take one slat off the side to satisfy the disassembly requirement.

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fantomesq
May 13, 2009 4:48 PM
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@Shadowfire: You are not paid for shipping to the manufacturer, so this game is at your own expense.

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Lukecadet
May 13, 2009 6:12 PM
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@fantomesq: The manufacturer sends you a fedex shipping label to return the parts. Read the web page about how to process the recall return.

Our \"E-File Submission\" option requires a valid email address and allows you to print a FedEx shipping label immediately after submitting your request. This is the fastest way to obtain your voucher and replace your crib.

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fantomesq
May 13, 2009 6:17 PM
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@Lukecadet: I stand corrected on the shipping label but since it isn't following the instructions, it also won't earn you a voucher... that is if Fedex will even accept it. They are expecting you to mail screws and labels - not the crib. Bad consumers make things worse for everyone.

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Shadowfire
May 13, 2009 5:01 PM
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@fantomesq: Oh boo... when I read it, I thought part of the packet was a FedEx label. :|

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edwardso
May 13, 2009 4:42 PM
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babies are the new cats

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MBPharmD
May 13, 2009 4:42 PM
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I had one of those Toro leaf blowers that was recalled and they had a similar requirement (I had to break off the prongs that you plug the extension cord into and mail those in). I think the issue here is that not having a leaf blower for a month is no big deal. Waiting a month for a crib is a big deal. Short of in-store exchange, I don't see any other way to do this well. I agree, although a hassle, in the end, this is the right thing to do.

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HankScorpio
May 13, 2009 4:43 PM
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This recall happened almost a year ago. I did the intelligent thing, bought a new crib and then had Babies R Us do a change payment after the voucher arrived.

It was a royal PITA to get a voucher last summer. It took us at least a dozen phone calls.

Why did these people wait so long to get their cribs replaced?

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ailema
May 14, 2009 1:43 AM
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@HankScorpio: It's nice that you have the money to buy a new crib, just like that. Not all people are lucky enough to have the cash or credit to do so.

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jbviau
May 13, 2009 5:25 PM
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@HankScorpio: I didn't wait. The recall was just recently expanded (for the second time, I think) to include additional models.

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morganlh85
May 13, 2009 5:00 PM
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Is this [returning the screws] possibly a measure to keep customers from selling, donating, or giving away the defective crib? That doesn't seem unreasonable. I know many thrift stores and resales have a huge problem with recalled baby and child items being donated and resold to unsuspecting parents.

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Farquar
May 13, 2009 6:41 PM
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@morganlh85:


That is exactly why they do this. And its not unreasonable.

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Vanilla5
May 13, 2009 5:04 PM
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Goodness that baby is adorable!

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Garbanzo
May 13, 2009 7:45 PM
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@Vanilla5: Man, even I agree, and I usually hate babies.

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valueofaloonie
May 13, 2009 6:53 PM
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@Vanilla5: I agree! She is super cute...love the toothless baby smile. :)

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Cyberxion101
May 13, 2009 5:09 PM
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Totally unrelated to the story: I miss Tucson. How's the weather there Phil?

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downwithmonstercable
May 13, 2009 5:26 PM
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We have a crib that was recalled. Still waiting on the instructions/voucher thing. Ours hasn't broken, and I gave each slat a good push/pull to check and make sure they feel solid.


The returning it to the store part will suck, because it weighs probably at least a million pounds.

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jbviau
May 13, 2009 5:47 PM
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@downwithmonstercable: You don't have to return the recalled crib to the store. Just buy a new crib and bring the receipt in once you receive your voucher to get reimbursed. Chop the old one up for firewood or something!

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Corporate_guy
May 13, 2009 5:38 PM
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@downwithmonstercable: How did you get it from the store to begin with?

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rouftop
May 13, 2009 5:32 PM
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You really meant \"who\", not \"whom.\"

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Corporate_guy
May 13, 2009 5:38 PM
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Nothing wrong with this. The whole point of a recall is to protect themselves. The only way for them to knowingly protect themselves is to have physical proof the crib is no longer being used.

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Velifer
May 13, 2009 5:49 PM
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We have one of these cribs. It wasn't part of the first recall, prompted by 42 incidents (right model, but it was the wrong color). It wasn't a part of the second recall, prompted by an additional 19 incidents (right model, still not quite the right color). It was finally listed in the third recall, racking up another 31 incidents.

Buy your cribs with oak stain, that stuff is durable! None of that maple stain, it's like crib kryptonite.

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Guvmint_Cheese
May 13, 2009 5:52 PM
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I think your daughter is going to be one of 10 Emma's in her grade school class. Emma is the new Madison I guess.

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pecan 3.14159265
May 13, 2009 7:18 PM
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@Guvmint_Cheese: I thought Madison was the new Emma, which was the new Mackenzie...

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Rectilinear Propagation
May 14, 2009 8:02 PM
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@pecan 3.14159265: I've never met anyone with any of those names. I've read books where there were characters with those names but that's it.

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coolteamblt
May 13, 2009 6:01 PM
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@Guvmint_Cheese: Depends on how you look at it. I mean, Emma is crazy popular, but it doesn't have as many similar names in the top thousand, or variant spellings. Madison will have to deal with other Maddisons, Maddysons, Madysons, Madisyns, Addisons, Addysons, Madeleines, Madelines, Madelyns, etc. Emma just really has to deal with other Emmas and Emilys. /name nerd

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Rachacha
May 13, 2009 5:52 PM
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It is possible that the removing of the screws was mandated as part of the negotiations between the manufacturer and the CPSC, however, I would agree that the steps do seem a bit extreme. I would contact the CPSC ((800) 638-2772) to see what terms, if any, they may have placed on the recall, and to advise them that the request seems onerous as by taking apart the crib your child will not have a safe place to sleep for several weeks while you wait for the voucher.

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dave_coder
May 13, 2009 7:41 PM
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@Rachacha: \"advise them that the request seems onerous as by taking apart the crib your child will not have a safe place to sleep for several weeks while you wait for the voucher.\"

But the whole point of the recall is that the crib is no longer \"a safe place to sleep\".

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Rachacha
May 13, 2009 10:19 PM
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@dave_coder: I absolutely understand, but if the manufacturer is imposing these requirements on their own without the government's approval, and others feel the process is too onerous, people will be LESS likely to submit the recall which will defeat the purpose. Recalls are highly managed by the CPSC, and they do listen to complaints about recalls.

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fantomesq
May 13, 2009 5:59 PM
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@Rachacha: They will suggest you buy a new crib, process the rebate afterwards and apply the voucher as a rebate. Jardine's requirements are not nearly as onerous as the alternatives.

What solution that meets the federal mandate to ensure destruction would work better?

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FrugalFreak
May 13, 2009 6:03 PM
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How hard is it to buy replacement screws? Buy replacement parts, put it back together and sell at flea market or yard sale, PROFIT.

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jbviau
May 13, 2009 7:13 PM
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@FrugalFreak: Not just screws, but also the metal plates the screws pass through when you screw them into the legs of the crib.

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juri squared
May 13, 2009 6:33 PM
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@FrugalFreak: Uhhhhhh, I'm pretty sure it's a bad idea to knowingly resell a product that's been recalled, if not outright illegal.

However, using replacement screws to reassemble the crib until you have the money to buy a new one might work. It would be a HUGE pain, though. Those things are a pain.

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coolteamblt
May 13, 2009 6:04 PM
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I've also heard rumors they're going to recall all drop-side cribs. I will cry if they do. I love my drop-side crib. I'm too short to get my son in and out of a fixed side crib!

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Lukecadet
May 13, 2009 6:07 PM
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Isn't the whole point of the recall because it currently is not safe for your baby to sleep in? Why as a parent would you want to continue to use it once you knew of possible injury to your baby? If I had one of these cribs I would stop using it now. Then I would go buy a new crib and wait for the voucher rebate.

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juri squared
May 13, 2009 6:18 PM
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I have the same problem with the Fisher Price/Simplicity Rainforest play yard recall. I am damn fortunate that my baby doesn't use it any more, especially since the thing actually DID break in the manner that prompted the recall.

Anyways, they want me to cut out and mail in the side panels. Since the postage is on their dime, I'm very tempted to include a brick in the package. Or dark matter.

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Garbanzo
May 13, 2009 7:50 PM
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I feel like I'm missing something here. How does removing the screws guarantee the destruction of the crib? You know that they sell screws literally by the pound at hardware stores, right?

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fantomesq
May 13, 2009 10:22 PM
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@Garbanzo: Its an attempt to balance the competing interests of product safety (which would require complete destruction of all affected products and customer/consumer reasonableness. Removing screws will ensure that the vast majority of the cribs are not resold or reused.

The standard practice is to require a return of the entire product but as many have noted, this is too much of a hardship for many.

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SacraBos
May 13, 2009 9:23 PM
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I haven't seen anyone else say it, but...

Beautiful baby!

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Alessar
May 14, 2009 1:07 PM
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@SacraBos: YES!! Such a cutie! Congrats to the author!!

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Smashville
May 13, 2009 11:40 PM
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My that's a sensationalistic/inaccurate/potentially libelous headline.

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radiochief
May 14, 2009 1:09 AM
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I completely understand the issues. But the tone is bad. A three month old can sleep in a bassinet or a Pack and Play setup for a short time. Even perhaps in the parents bed.

But to my knowledge it is not actually the long bolt screws (i.e. physically hold the crib together) that are the issues with affected cribs. The issues are small small screws that go into the side of the rails that hold the mattress platform in place. So, I suppose you certainly could go down to Home Depot get the matching screws and do your thing. But it does not take several weeks.

How do I know this? I just did this two months ago.

We got a notice about our Jardine crib that our nearly 4 year old son was sleeping in. We had already purchased a big boy frame and twin set for his move up, since my wife was pregnant with our second child.

She went on the web, filled in the info, we got the claim form a few (literally) days later. I dissembled the crib got the screws my wife peeled off the sticker. We sent it Fedex (their mailer) on a Monday, got the cute little snowflaked Toys'R US voucher and went that Saturday to get the crib.

The only issue we had was deciding if it was worth the trouble to do, but we figured our boy deserved the same attention as our first, even though we had no problems.

I don't think the steps are extreme because you need to prove you took it apart. Injuries and deaths can and I believe DID happen. So, if you don't return it, all you are doing is gambling that everything will be okay for you.

But f you just got a voucher with no proof; would you be diligent enough to destroy the crib? So someone who might go dumpster diving does not take an apparently fine piece of baby furniture home for their child or someone else? Or would you donate it to charity?

My new son was born yesterday, BTW.

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Anonymous
May 14, 2009 12:38 PM
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We were included in this recall.

The crappy thing about it is, instead of giving our money back, 4 years later, and when we wouldn't need a crib, they sent us a coupon for 200$ towards a new crib at Babies-R-Us.

What a crock.

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