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Allen Harkleroad
May 8, 2009 4:48 PM
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It's a shame that it takes a congressman being fed up with this crap to do anything about it. What about the millions of consumers that endure them every day?

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Shoelace
May 8, 2009 6:09 PM
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@Allen Harkleroad: It is a shame and kudos to those two congressmen...out of how many congresspeople? I'd bet that more than those two have been called. I hope the rest of them, called and (as yet) uncalled will decide to get off their tails and join the revolt.

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minsky
May 8, 2009 5:45 PM
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@Allen Harkleroad:
I absolutely agree! It sucks that just because an elected politico gets harrassed that something finally happens.

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econobiker
May 8, 2009 5:45 PM
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@Allen Harkleroad: Yep, until it hits home the politicos don't do a thing...

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Sean Masters
May 8, 2009 4:55 PM
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@Allen Harkleroad: having had an internship position on the Hill in my late teens, and thanks to having another member of my immediate family working in politics for their entire adult life, I can truthfully tell you that this is how nearly all political decisions become manifest. What a politician's constituents do or do not approve of matters, but only to some extent - once that politician his/herself takes a direct interest in an issue, only then do things really start happening.

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takes_so_little
May 8, 2009 4:50 PM
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I wish I mattered as much as a congressman, but I'm glad when these things happen to them because then things have the possibility of changing. What else do I hope happens to congresspeople?

- unable to collect on extra-warranty-protection purchased at bigbox retailer

- unable to redeem mail-in rebate

- unable to rent a u-haul despite reservations

- unable to qualify for medical treatment due to an extremely obscure loophole in the coverage policy they've been paying through the nose for for years

- has bought-and-paid-for media suddenly bricked via DRM

I know I know, I'm a dreamer.

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lannister80
May 8, 2009 6:39 PM
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@takes_so_little: Now that you've been burned by DRM, it's time to join the illegal download club. Welcome!

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takes_so_little
May 8, 2009 6:45 PM
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@lannister80: No thanks. I stick to DRM-free sources now; buying CD's is getting really cheap. My local BOrders is clearing them all out, apparently. Just got TV On The Radio for $6.

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Mike8813
May 8, 2009 11:03 PM
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@takes_so_little: Thank god you didn't use your bad DRM experience to justify piracy. Most pirates have some dumbass reasoning that makes it OK in their eyes.


\"I'm a photographer and need photoshop, but it's too expensive!\"
\"I just pirated it to see if I would like it. If I like it, I pay for it.\"
\"Piracy spreads word-of-mouth and is beneficial to companies\"
\"I'm not really stealing it, I'm just copying it! There's a huge difference!\"


Etc.


...Barf.


Thanks for being an honest guy.

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anduin
May 12, 2009 11:14 PM
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@Mike8813:
hey you like to make excuses too ? Yay lets go to a torrent site and get hundreds of dollars of stuff in a single DAY :D

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jamar0303
May 9, 2009 8:48 AM
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@Mike8813: Or you could have dumb recording label restrictions on your CDs. All the jewel cases on the (official- if I'm going to pirate I'm not going to be paying for it) CDs I've bought here say \"not for outside mainland China\".

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Sheogorath
May 8, 2009 4:58 PM
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Like I said in the other thread...how long have people been complaining about this? And how long have our loyal senators been doing nothing at all?

Urgh.

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snowburnt
May 8, 2009 5:05 PM
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@Sheogorath: Have they been complaining to their Senators?

Most of the time I think you'd have better luck complaining to your congressmen, they have a much smaller constituency.

Even better, complain to your state government, State laws can trump federal laws in most cases and in all cases will bring attention to the matter whether it be through the news coverage or by having the federal government step in and fill in the gaps.

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RCheli
May 8, 2009 7:57 PM
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@snowburnt:
When my wife was having an issue with an unpaid judgment in a hearing, she wrote letters to everyone: from our alderman (we're in Chicago) to the governor (the disgraced Rod Blagojevic). The only person who responded and who actually helped was the office of the Lt. Governor Pat Quinn (now the gov). It wasn't a huge thing and I don't know if it helped in the end, but at least they gave a shit. So, I'd say maybe don't shoot for the moon, and instead go with someone mid-level.

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Megalomania
May 8, 2009 4:58 PM
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So does this mean that if the car warranty people had never called anyone other than elected officials, we would have had this resolved months ago?

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Hoss
May 8, 2009 5:13 PM
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Frankly, I could do without the firemen's retirement assocation calls too. Or any other cold calls -- including some relatives

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jdmba
May 8, 2009 5:33 PM
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@Hoss:

I stopped donating. It is fairly clear, when you donate to C.O.P.S. then the firemen call, plain and simple. By the way, those are scams - you can look that up. That's why they are NOT tax deductible.

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tbax929
May 8, 2009 7:32 PM
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@jdmba:


I donate to C.O.P.S. every time they pull me over. They've collected enough from me.

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yagisencho
May 8, 2009 5:25 PM
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@Hoss:


Word. I tense up every time the phone rings. My default response is to let it ring through to the answering machine. I'm on the Do Not Call list and yet I've still had to block 7 numbers. There's at least 20 more that I'd like to block, but they hide their calling centers' phone number when they call.

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snowburnt
May 8, 2009 5:41 PM
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@yagisencho: I think non-profits are still allowed to call you even if you are on the do not call list

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TouchMyMonkey
May 8, 2009 5:36 PM
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I have recently resolved to do my philanthropy anonymously from now on. In cash or in kind. If you write a check to one charity, you invite cold calls from all of them. Enough is enough.

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Michael Belisle
May 8, 2009 9:35 PM
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@HurtsSoGood: Another solution is to give enough money to one organization so that they're prefer to keep you to themselves instead of inviting competition for your wealth.

This approach really only works well if you're rich enough to line your bedsheets with Benjamins.

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Shoelace
May 8, 2009 6:05 PM
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@HurtsSoGood: That's how to do it. The same thing happened to me and the non-stop pleading calls and letters became too much to take. Even the ones who let you check a box for a one-time donation only or to keep your information private often don't. I now won't give to any organization that has violated my privacy or has repeatedly cold-called.

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cmdrsass
May 8, 2009 5:37 PM
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Let's ban political telemarketing too, oh wai ...

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summerbee
May 8, 2009 5:39 PM
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So, right after I read this, I GOT A ONE OF THESE CALLS for the very first time. Right here at work on my work phone -- the phone that I use to receive calls from more important people, like customers.


It came from 1-800-764-7653, FWIW.

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Snarkysnake
May 8, 2009 5:59 PM
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Now look ,you people...I would NEVER condone calling \"Anthony\" at (949) 475-9500 and telling him that HIS home warranty is about to expire.No, I would never do that.But I would call and ask to speak to:(in order) Al Koholik,Oliver Klozoff and Hugh Jass about getting my warranty extended. That's what I would do...

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PittDragon
May 8, 2009 6:10 PM
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@Snarkysnake: You can also use a bunch of fictional names for those who don't know pop culture:

H.E. Pennypacker
Art Vandeley
Newman
Mrs. Doubtfire

This list goes on :D

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gruffnuff
May 8, 2009 6:10 PM
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Here's a letter I sent to Congressman Doyle today:

Dear Congressman Doyle,

I heard your statement during the hearing of the House Energy and Commerce Committee regarding your frustration with Auto Warranty robocalls to your cellphone. You are one of thousands of people who are fed up with that.

I have information that may be of interest to you.

After about two years of these incessant auto warranty calls to my home phone, and becoming increasingly infuriated at the brazen attitude of the companies involved, I filed a FOIA request with the FTC, asking for a detailed recount of Do Not Call List violation complaints filed against National Warranty Service Center and The Warranty Division, two of the names that the people making these calls cite when asked to provide a company name.

The FTC was able to pull up more than 1500 complaints filed in their database. I presume that 1500 is the low end of a significantly larger number of complaints.

I received copies of about 250 of these complaints. They all carry the following common threads,:

- the companies calling never provide accurate information about who they are and what they do
- the companies calling will, in most cases, hang up when asked for any identifying information; in a surprisingly large number of cases, they will resort to insults and abuse when the person receiving the call inquires as to why they are calling;
- the company or companies involved in this know they are violating FCC and FTC laws and have communicated to the people they hire to man their call centers that they don't care;
- the company or companies calling do not have a list of any sort -- they are randomly dialing numbers;
- the people calling have the sole intention of obtaining a credit card number;
- the people calling have a pattern not just of harrasing phone calls but of verbal abuse including racist, sexist and homophobic slurs when confronted with the illegality of their behavior;
- the people calling clearly believe that no law enforcement agency is ever going to do something about this.

The fact that the FTC has about 1500 complaints on file is maddening. This represents the small subset of people who have enough patience to sit through the robocall enough to get the company's fake name and also have enough knowhow to file a complaint. And clearly, the FTC isn't interested in any kind of legal action. They have enough information in the small sample of complaints I received to perform a real investigation, but for one reason or another have chosen not to.

Given that FTC has failed in so many of their regulatory responsibilities over the last 8 years in areas much more clearly related to their mission, it shouldn't surprise anyone that they haven't acted on this. But this clearly means that the Federal Do Not Call registry has no teeth if the agency that runs it won't do anything with a large volume of complaints.

Auto Warranty scams are not the only calls of this nature that I have received. Back when the mortgage market was hot, I received numerous phone calls in Spanish from companies proposing to refinance my home, sell me a home, provide me a mortgage or such items, following similar patterns of blatant disregard for the law. Clearly they were targeting Latinos, and assuming that a large segment of the population would not know the law or know how to protect itself. We have seen the catastrophic results that such predatory practices can have on our national economy.

I hope you see the clear connection between these two items.The rule of law is what has kept our country functioning. When regulation and enforcement fall by the wayside, we imperil much more than just our dinnertime peace and quiet, we endanger our collective welfare.

I wrote to Rep. Jim Moran, who represents my district, various times during the last few years about the home mortgage calls and why I felt that their targeting Latinos was a dangerous precedent that would have bad consequences. I never did receive a response from him. Perhaps he has never received a robocall offering him a mortgage application or an auto warranty. Perhaps you might be able to help him see the connections between tighther rules on telemarketing and the general soundness of or economic and legal system.

And perhaps you might be able to get those in charge of the FTC's Do Not Call registry how many legal actions they have actually taken in relation to all the complaints filed on their website. Ideally, you might even be willing to help us get real anti-telemarketing legislation that gives us consumers tools to protect ourselves when the regulatory agencies will not act.

I would be happy to provide the records I have obtained with you, and would be happy to chat with your staffmembers at whatever point you may find it convenient or necessary.

Warm regards,
[...]

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synergy
May 9, 2009 3:45 AM
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@gruffnuff: While I personally think the letter is great, most people don't take the time to read so much detail, no matter who they are. I'm betting aides would skim trying to figure out what you're going on about and possibly skip it because it contains too much material for them.

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trujunglist
May 8, 2009 8:35 PM
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@gruffnuff:

Excellent letter, hopefully he actually reads it.

I would also write a second letter to Rep. Moran titled \"GET A CLUE MORAN\"

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Inglix_the_Mad
May 10, 2009 11:37 AM
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@trujunglist: \"He\" probably wont directly. \"His\" staffer will, however, and collate it with other letters.

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Shoelace
May 8, 2009 6:54 PM
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@gruffnuff: Great letter. Hopefully he or a member of his staff will also see this on Consumerist, likewise Moran (whatever he's good for). Please let us know if you hear back.

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Nytmare
May 8, 2009 6:14 PM
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@jdmba: It's safe to consider all of those calls to be scams -- where most if not all of the money you \"donate\" goes into the cold-calling company's pocket.

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razremytuxbuddy
May 8, 2009 6:30 PM
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The only calls I get as often as the auto warranty calls, are the robo calls from political candidates and my congressional representatives.

Gruffnuff, great letter, and kudos to you for doing the legwork and research to document FTC's handling of the complaints. I have tried to get follow-up information on a complaint I filed with FTC, and they refused to give me anything, calling it confidential.

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maxx22
May 8, 2009 6:40 PM
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In NY, we get multiple \"live\" charity calls from \"The Police League\", \"The Detective Bureau\" or similar made up names. I understand that \"charities\" are exempt from the Do Not Call list. I also understand that there are better places to give money.

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maxx22
May 8, 2009 6:46 PM
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Somebody who has my identical name has been buying computer stuff and games and apparently not paying for it. I continue to get phone calls, usually around dinner time, asking me to pay outstanding bills for $60 or $52. or whatever and they ask how I'm going to pay. When I say that I won't, they ask if my address is P.O. Box xxxx, I say it isn't. They may still call a few more times. Many of these calls seem outsourced from India.


Clearly, rather than checking with the Post Office to find the legitimate owner of Box xxxx, they are just calling everybody with that name in the phone book.


Again, exempt from the Do Not Call list because of a possible prior business relationship.


Bad people.

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trujunglist
May 8, 2009 8:36 PM
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@maxx22:

No, what they're doing is skiptracing; calling in the hope that you are the person that owns the PO Box. But that person will likely never be listed other than the PO Box, which that person must also use on their credit applications.

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Verucalise (Est.February2008)
May 8, 2009 7:20 PM
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@maxx22: There are probably privacy laws which prevent them from verifying the owner of a P.O. Box at the USPS.


I think there's a collection law that says if you tell them to only contact you in writing, they can no longer call you.


Frig 'em if they have the wrong address and won't believe it's not your debt.

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Michael Belisle
May 8, 2009 7:24 PM
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Great! Will congress hold a hearing? Those always get so much accomplished.

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chris_d
May 8, 2009 9:18 PM
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@Michael Belisle:
No they'll just hold a hearing to talk about whether to hold a hearing.

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kwsventures
May 8, 2009 8:07 PM
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When the feds take over Government Motors, ur, I mean, General Motors, the congressman can expect many more calls for consumers.

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NightElfMohawk
May 8, 2009 9:20 PM
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Apparently my BF's been getting them this week too. His last night said it was from Nevada, and I got to take a listen to it too. Awesome. Even better, he drives an early-90s Chevy Corsica, well over 150k miles on it... it's beyond any reasonable warranty. Crazy people...

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morganlh85
May 8, 2009 9:54 PM
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Awww...his accent makes me really miss my hometown of Pittsburgh :(

Or should I say home\"tahn\" :)

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Anonymous
May 8, 2009 9:55 PM
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To stop these guys from calling you, simply go with the flow and waste as much of their time on the phone as you can by pretending to be interested (and stupid). They will get fed up with you and remove your number from the list.I did this, I wasted their time twice and now they have not called me for quite some time. I was getting two and three calls per day.

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Shaun Dakin
May 8, 2009 10:46 PM
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I wonder if he cares as much about political robo calls?

It is too bad that politicians continue to exempt themselves from Do Not Call law.

StopPoliticalCalls.org is fighting for the privacy of the American voter.

1 - Creating a Political Do Not Call Registry
2 - Testifying in the US Senate about robo calls (Sen. Feinstein's Robocall Privacy Act)
3 - Forcing states to enforce existing robo call laws (CA, MN, NJ, etc..)
4 - Getting politicians to take a do not robo call pledge (7 have)

Here is a quote from a member recently:

\"I'm a shift worker, working variable shifts. I depend on my sleep to be able to do my job safely and efficiently. I'm a locomotive engineer. Imagine the disaster were I to fall asleep, operating a freight train carrying hazardous materials in your neighborhood, due to fatigue from being awoken in my middle of the night on a continuous basis during election season. Please stop..\"

Learn more.

Shaun Dakin
CEO
[www.stoppoliticalcalls.org]
A non-profit fighting for the privacy of the American voter

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balilanai
May 9, 2009 12:38 AM
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Interesting to note that outrage sometimes doesn't hit the ceiling until it hits a Congressman in his arm.

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redkamel
May 9, 2009 2:34 AM
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I just dont have a home line and I change my number every 3-4 years. My friends and work get the number, everyone else can figure it out.
I also hate mail.

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FLConsumer
May 9, 2009 9:47 PM
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Many of these scammers don't work on weekends...but their phone systems do.

Keep in mind most large-volume users buy phone service by the minute, especially for 800#s. I'm NOT advocating this, BUT in theory it's possible to run up their bill very high. Just call calling up their #, press 1 to talk to a representative...and put the phone down for awhile. It'll just keep ringing and ringing, all while their phone charges keep going up.

Again, I'm NOT advocating this, just a PBX administrator myself...and insist all of my PBXs have timeouts for this reason. Some of the car warranty cos apparently don't have timeouts on their systems.

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