var json_comments = new Array("
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Esquire99
May 9, 2009 6:08 PM
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Aside from simple deterrence, there doesn't seem to be much point to this unless they are actually writing down or somehow recording the ID.

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2 replies
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FLConsumer
May 9, 2009 8:03 PM
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@Esquire99: Well, the TSA/Department of Homeland Security do this, so it must be a valid security measure, right?

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gStein_*|bringing starpipe back|*
May 9, 2009 10:23 PM
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@FLConsumer: the TSA verifies that your picture matches you, and that the name on your ID matches what's on your ticket.
more of a \"make sure this guy can get in\", but my roommate has shown a proof-of-concept that there's still huge flaws in the system, and anyone with MS paint can change the name on a boarding pass (print ticket under fake name, scan, open in ms paint, change name to your REAL name. print. at security, present REAL NAME pass, and at the gate present fake name (real pass))

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RedwoodFlyer
May 12, 2009 3:31 PM
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@gStein:

I've done it before....had a trip planned with my gf at the time...we broke up, and I didn't want to flush the $$$ ticket down the drain, so we just used MS Word's webpage editing to change the name on the online check in ticket!

Heck, you could get Osama Bin Laden on a flight...just buy his ticket under \"John Smith\" and don't check in a bag.

Another tip: If you get the SSSS on your boarding pass, print it out, put whiteout on the SSSS, and zip it through a copy machine = no butthurt from the TSA's white glove treatment screening.

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schweppes
May 11, 2009 12:48 PM
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@gStein: Yeah, there was an article in Slate about that exact process about 2 years ago....

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xdabomb911
May 9, 2009 6:10 PM
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Well the sign says \"Over 20 dollars\" so it means a 50 dollar bill. I don't see the big deal in why they would want to ID customers paying with a 50 or a 100.

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7 replies
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shepd
May 9, 2009 6:47 PM
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@xdabomb911:

Considering all US currency is the same size, the sign seems rather... pointless.

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stanhubrio
May 9, 2009 11:51 PM
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@shepd: It's rare that something I read in the comments actually makes me laugh. Your comment did. Kudos.

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AbsurdHero
May 9, 2009 11:02 PM
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@shepd: You mean I can't cash my obnoxiously oversized game show winnings check there?

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shepd
May 9, 2009 8:03 PM
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@henwy:

:^)

Although, outside of America, banknotes for different values tend to be different sizes (often higher value notes are larger).

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Applekid
May 9, 2009 6:38 PM
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@xdabomb911: But, where can I spend my counterfeit $21 bills?

Er, I mean, real legal tender $21 bills. Yeah, that's it.

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jackbishop
May 10, 2009 12:15 AM
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@Applekid: You joke, but in Hungary there was actually a bizarrely successful passing of a counterfeit 54000-forint note (the authentic denominations are the much more consistent 5, 10, 20, 50, 100, 200, 500, 1000, 2000, 5000, 10000, 20000, 50000, and 100000).

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Révolution
May 10, 2009 4:18 AM
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@jackbishop: Please ban him. He's linking to malware. At least that's what Chrome is telling me.

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Alarmpro
May 10, 2009 10:30 AM
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@Révolution: There is no malware @ that site, it's a newspaper. Kinda a knee-jerk reaction on your part, demanding that a user be banned because *your* browser (in Beta I might add) gave you a warning. [www.siteadvisor.com]

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dangerp
May 11, 2009 3:38 PM
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@alarmpro:

Chrome is *not* in beta anymore, check your facts.

[googleblog.blogspot.com]

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reynwrap582
May 10, 2009 5:05 AM
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@Révolution: That's a bit of an overreaction. It's a legitimate site with something embedded from another site that is known to host malware. That's like saying \"ban this guy because he suggested I go to Boston, but I won't go to Boston because there's a train that links it to New York and they sometimes have murderers in New York.\"

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bwpopper
May 10, 2009 5:03 AM
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@Révolution: Avast went bonkers on me, too. I think it caught it, though. One of two things happened here, and I hope he's just ignorant.

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jackbishop
May 27, 2009 9:03 PM
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@bwpopper: News to me. I run NoScript; is it the sidebar stuff that's problematic? I've shared that link with people before and none of them said anything about potential security-problems with the site.

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supercereal
May 9, 2009 6:10 PM
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I've seen it a few places, and I never understood the logic at all. What does showing ID prove to the cashier? Odds are that you could print up a fake ID with the name of one of the FBI's 10 Most Wanted, and the person behind the register would be none the wiser.

A determined counterfeiter would really have no trouble circumventing such a simple measure.

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6 replies
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trujunglist
May 11, 2009 8:34 PM
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@supercereal:

I totally agree, and in the end it's the average non-counterfeiter that is going to wind up with the problems after receiving the fake bills wherever they got them.
Imagine standing there as a regular customer and accidentally passing a fake bill. You immediately get looked at funny, pulled aside, questioned, etc all in front of other customers. Then you probably get kicked out, or maybe even have the cops called on you. Oh, and on top of that, you're out $50/$100 because that bill was fake.

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RandomHookup
May 10, 2009 12:59 PM
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@supercereal: It's like the Walgreens that asks to see my ID anytime I buy $50 or more in gift cards. They look at my ID and they process the transaction. Makes no sense, especially since I could buy two $25 gift cards in separate transactions and not get carded.

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microcars
May 10, 2009 3:24 AM
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@supercereal:
A \"real\" counterfitter will not be out spending the bills at McDonalds.
The person \"spending\" the bills is the dope that \"bought\" the fake bills from a \"friend\" who \"knows someone\".
The person handing over the fake bills is not going to have a fake ID too.

That is how the fake money gets out there, like drugs it gets SOLD at a considerable \"discount\" to other people to use.

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PsiCop
May 9, 2009 7:41 PM
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@supercereal: As other commenters have noted, it's a deterrent. If you are trying to pass a bill you know is counterfeit, you're not likely to want to hand over an ID.

Granted, a counterfeiter could hand over a fake ID, but that the cashier has to stop and ask for it, means s/he will have time to take a better look at the bill. This extra time might mean it gets rejected as phony. Thus, even a counterfeiter armed with fake ID is not likely to want to pass his/her bill at a place that does this.

It's not foolproof deterrence, to be sure ... it can be evaded, as I pointed out. But if it deters just a few counterfeit-bill passings, it may still be worth it to the business.

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henwy
May 9, 2009 6:59 PM
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@supercereal:

It's simple deterrence. It's like receipt-checking. Anyone could always print up a fake receipt at home, but it's just an extra hurdle to leap. If you knew you had to present id to spend your counterfeit bills at Mcdonalds but not at wendy's, why not just go to wendy's and not spent the time/effort/cost of getting a fake id?

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fantomesq
May 9, 2009 6:58 PM
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@supercereal: The deterrence factor. Their loss prevention departments must believe that showing IDs will lower the incidence of fraud - not just counterfeiters but also short change artists. If the ID isn't recorded then it has not value other than deterrence.

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cosby
May 9, 2009 6:12 PM
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Better question is how this makes a difference. You hand over your id and they hand it back to you. They find out a few days later they and a fake bill what can they do? They are not going to know who passed it. I also agree that people counterfeiting the bills could just show a fake id.

Most places will just use a counterfit-detection pen.

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3 replies
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JoseRZ
May 9, 2009 11:54 PM
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@cosby:

\"Most places will just use a counterfit-detection pen. \"

Which can be defeated by hair-spray.
Get regular paper spray it with hair spray let dry. Will mark as real.

The bigger problem is bleached bills. They get a five since it has a water mark then print a larger
denomination. Will mark as real and most people just glace at the water-mark.

@sheph It is only illegal to write on money for fraudulent purpose. Such as trying to make a five look like a fifty.(easier in the old days)

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shepd
May 9, 2009 6:48 PM
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@cosby:

They are not going to know who passed it.

Unless they either mark the bills (might be illegal, but I see it plenty enough, even the banks do it by accident) or they write the serial number down.

Or, third option: They wrap your money with the receipt onto which they take down the details from your ID.

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Shadowfire
May 9, 2009 9:23 PM
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@shepd: Or fourth option. You hand them the money and the ID, they recognize the bill as fake, and call the cops. You can leave, but they have your ID.

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Shoelace
May 9, 2009 6:15 PM
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Do they accept payment in pennies?

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1 replies
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samoffer
May 9, 2009 6:18 PM
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Why is there such a hesitation to showing ID, receipts, etc.? You already have your wallet open when paying, it probably takes about 10 seconds for the cashier to glance at your ID and verify you are who you say you are.

Is it that much of an inconvenience?

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16 replies
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Con Sumer Zealot
May 10, 2009 6:22 AM
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@samoffer: @samoffer: @fantomesq: Probably really more the case the illegal immigrants working there can't make change for a bill that big.

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Daisuke Matsuzaka
May 9, 2009 6:43 PM
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@samoffer: I agree with the previous comments. I happen to like my privacy, and if I pay cash I shouldn't have to show my ID to anyone. I stopped shopping at Best Buy because they started this silly trend of showing a receipt. I will gladly stop shopping anywhere else that gives me such a hassle. I heart online shopping for this reason, among others.

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supercereal
May 9, 2009 7:39 PM
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@Daisuke Matsuzaka:

and if I pay cash I shouldn't have to show my ID to anyone.
Spend a large enough amount of cash, and be prepared to fork over your SSN, DOB, and essentially all of your personal information.

I heart online shopping for this reason, among others.
Online stores collect much, much more information than do B&M stores...
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LibertyReign
May 11, 2009 10:55 PM
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@supercereal:


The online stores I do business with do not have any of my personal information whatsoever. They have a credit card number which has built-in fraud protection and that is all. They don't even ask for the card-holder's name at many places where you can opt to enter your 3-digit security code instead. Mastercard purchases are protected by MASTERCARD!!! The only company that would have the slightest argument to card me would be MASTERCARD. Anyone else is just adhering to blatant fascism.


I don't even have an I.D., so your logic is flawed even if it weren't incorrect. Demanding that I register with the state in order to buy and sell goods is a violation of my rights. Demanding to see my DL#, my home address, and my DOB(SS# in some states), is also a violation of my rights. Both of these are violations of my rights with good reason, hence why they were incorporated into our highest laws and our way of life to the point that over 200 years later there are still people like me bitching about the erosion of these rights.


I can't find the words to express how indignated I feel reading some of the hogwash on this site about \"just going along to get along\". Contrary to common-belief resisting this type of harassment is what founded our country and in my opinion its all you boot-lickers who are ruining it.

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samoffer
May 9, 2009 6:57 PM
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@Daisuke Matsuzaka: Yes, online shopping provides so much more privacy when you give them your e-mail, credit card number, billing address, and shipping address.

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LibertyReign
May 11, 2009 10:17 PM
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@samoffer:


I use a spam email for online purchses and I use a generic mailing address for shipping and billing. My home address is private to me. My bank, my employer and any other merchants I do business with do not need to know where I live.

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RandomHookup
May 12, 2009 7:36 PM
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@LibertyReign:

My bank, my employer and any other merchants I do business with do not need to know where I live.


So entities that have to report your location for tax purposes (tied to where you actually live, not where you receive your mail), don't have a right to your address? Interesting...

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Cocoa Vanilla
May 11, 2009 12:33 AM
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@samoffer: Uh, you do realize that most stores send your credit card number over the Internet as well? Granted, it's encrypted, as is any site that collects your credit card number. (Check into PCI regulations.)

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DreamTheEndless: Death's little brother
May 10, 2009 3:58 PM
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@samoffer: Come on now - there's a pretty significant difference here. It's REASONABLE to provide your address and credit card information when shopping online - otherwise how would you get your items? It's certainly not reasonable to have to show photo id to pay cash for a big mac or subject yourself to unlawful searches after walking 20 feet from the cashier at Best Buy to the door.

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Shoelace
May 9, 2009 6:32 PM
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@samoffer: Shouldn't have to show ID to pay with cash. If McD's is worried about forged bills they should check the bills. If something is wrong with the bill they can take it from there.

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fantomesq
May 9, 2009 7:07 PM
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@Shoelace: The ID check is an alternative to the VERY common practice, especially at fast food restaurants to simply refuse large bills. Would you prefer that?

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LibertyReign
May 11, 2009 10:37 PM
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@fantomesq:


Yes, because this is more honest, and doesn't infronge upon my rights. Please don't forget that asking for I.D. accomplishes NOTHING...NOTHING!!!! Please..don't forget that..it's important to realize..

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Eryk
May 9, 2009 6:32 PM
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@samoffer: @samoffer: Totally agreed. Like someone pointed out above, this would be for when someone uses a denomination above a $20 dollar bill.

Yesteryear, I remember working in retail and having a special pen that you'd use on the bill in question, and if it came up a certain color, it was counterfeit. Guess they found a way around that to where those are now useless.

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ramfan1701
May 9, 2009 11:50 PM
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@Eryk:


Those pens definitely aren't foolproof. I used to work at a bank, and we never used them. Instead, we felt the texture of the paper and looked for the watermarks/ghost images.


But I guess it would be harder to train your average fast-food monkey to look for that kind of stuff, so they just give them a pen.

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From the cubicle of PGibbons
May 10, 2009 6:18 PM
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@ramfan1701: Now they have these monkeys validating IDs. That'll fix it...

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dragonfire81
May 10, 2009 9:49 PM
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@PGibbons: Our policies are set by corporate, if they say I have to check ID on credit card sales, then that's what I'm going to do. If a customer really called me on it, I'd probably throw it up to the store manager and let him decide whether or not to take the card.

I know the policy and the merchant agreement clash, but that's for corporate and the credit card companies to sort out, not a counter worker. We do what we are told to do. Regardless of my personal opinions about the policy, I go along with it.

Now I know that might sound like I am caving in, but I highly doubt that even I took it to corporate myself they would change the policy, they aren't going to listen to come counter worker on stuff like that.

I'm not an asshole to anybody. The one time I did have to refuse a credit sale because the lady had no ID, I just calmly told her why I couldn't do it and asked if she had an alternate payment method.

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RedSonSuperDave
May 9, 2009 7:32 PM
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@Eryk: Specifically, they take the surface ink off of a $1 via chemical bleaching or abrasion and print a fake large bill on it. The composition of the paper is basically the same, so the pen doesn't detect the phony. You can tell when a bill's been altered this way because the watermark and the little strip inside of it will show the old denomination.

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NeverLetMeDown
May 9, 2009 7:18 PM
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@Eryk:

Yup, those will only catch really poor forgeries.

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icantreplyright
May 9, 2009 6:24 PM
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@samoffer: Why should I have to prove my identity to buy something from you? Its my right to not. I'm tired of people sitting back and going \"oh well its not that hard I'll just give up this right today.\" Do that enough and we will have nothing left.

You can't see my receipt and you can't see my ID. That is a problem? Fine. There is another retailer that will gladly take my money without infringing on my rights.

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Zain
May 9, 2009 7:26 PM
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@icantreplyright: Where do you get the idea that it's your \"right to not\"? What you do have the right to is canceling or not participating in such a transaction if a business should ask for your ID. On the other hand, the business also has a right to cancel your transaction if the customer cannot comply with their terms.

The only possible exception would be some credit card merchant agreements, where the business has agreed to not require further identification from customers using credit cards or debit cards.

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LibertyReign
May 11, 2009 10:47 PM
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@Zain:


LOL!!! The BILL of RIGHTS...lol...there's a bunch of 'em on there you should take a look.. You should also try reading the Federalist arguments between memebers of Congress at the time. It will help you to understand the INTENT of our rights. LOL!

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Zain
May 12, 2009 12:08 AM
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@LibertyReign: It's great that you're having a laugh, but I hope that's because your argument is laughable. The Bill of Rights, and the entire Constitution for that matter, is an agreement between the U.S. government, the states, and its people. It doesn't govern interaction between people and private entities. Now I hope you understand the INTENT of your rights.

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henwy
May 9, 2009 7:13 PM
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@icantreplyright:

You don't. Just don't stop at the store and everyone's happy.

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samoffer
May 9, 2009 7:06 PM
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@icantreplyright: I don't think making a voluntary purchase in a store leads to an infringement of your precious, idealistic rights. Let's be practical for a bit here.

Don't think McDonald's doesn't think these decisions through. And consider their right to try and minimize the acceptance of bad bills. If simply asking for ID they are able to reduce the passing of counterfeit money, why isn't this a good decision for all? Those counterfeiters, just like you, will gladly take their counterfeit bills elsewhere. Meanwhile, McDonald's enjoys a reduction in losses due to counterfeiting and the savings are passed to customers in the form of lower prices.

It's a win-win for everyone except idealistic nuts like you who think every interaction with someone else leads to the loss of precious rights. Grow up.

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LibertyReign
May 11, 2009 10:36 PM
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@samoffer:


What exactly does \"grow up\" mean? For example:


I think you are young because you display your ignorance with the following assumptions..


1. That asking for I.D. will deter fraud, never deter enough fraud to compensate for the lack of business as a result of your invasive policies.


2. This comment, LOL: \"who think every interaction with someone else leads to the loss of precious rights.\"


You sure missed the point didn't you? I think the point is we DON'T think every interaction with someone else should lead to loss of precious rights, which by the way, *MY* privacy rights are just that..precious..and RIGHTS... and MINE..


I would prefer to just do business without having to turn my head and cough before making a purchase.


Once again I ask..where do YOU draw the line? Never?

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From the cubicle of PGibbons
May 10, 2009 6:06 PM
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@samoffer: Yes, grow up. And if next week, Ronald McDonald insists on fingerprinting your children or drawing your blood before handing over a 6-pack of chicken mcnuggets, well - suck it up you pussy!

If our corporate masters say it's ok to do to us, then it is. They have \"thought these decisions through\" so that you don't have to. Too bad Mickey D didn't \"think through\" the ramifications of serving illegally scalding hot coffee in violation of a prior agreement, but anyway...

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LibertyReign
May 11, 2009 11:45 PM
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@PGibbons: @PGibbons:


Amen. Keep up the good posts, mate.

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LibertyReign
May 11, 2009 11:45 PM
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@PGibbons:


..or the legal ramifications of their promotion of and profit off of the obesity and subsequent death and disease of millions of Americans. This will be soon to come now that American's find it acceptable to pass on responsiblity for themselves onto EVERYONE except themself..now even the fracking cashier at McDonald's..yeah now there's someone I trust with my personal information..

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say what?!
May 9, 2009 8:52 PM
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@samoffer: not only will they enjoy a reduction in losses, but probably a reduction in revenue and thus profit. wanting to retain rights is not a sign of immaturity, but telling someone to \"grow up,\" well, is.

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LibertyReign
May 11, 2009 11:14 PM
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@say what?!:


This was my point exactly but you were more articulate than I was..

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SteelersAreGo
May 9, 2009 11:03 PM
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@say what?!: It's true, and I never understand why these people are so vitriolic against people who do want to preserve their rights. Soldiers get lauded all the time for preserving freedom or something, but people who refuse to show receipts (move to the back of the bus?) get railed against for \"rocking the boat.\"

Give up whatever rights you want people, but you're acting unbelievable selfishly when you decry people for not doing the same.

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fantomesq
May 9, 2009 9:11 PM
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@say what?!: Its a costs-benefits analysis. Obviously this McDonalds did the analysis and found that it cut in favor of taking ID.

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LibertyReign
May 11, 2009 11:40 PM
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@SteelersAreGo:


I agree with your sentiment whole-heartedly, I have noticed an inherent problem though. As the amount of people who give up their rights willingly becomes vastly greater than those who do not, those who do not become social outcasts and are given a variety of labels to encourage the culture of anti-individualism.


1. idealogues
2. crack-pots
3. tin-foil hats
4. diificult
5. paranoid


People who merely advocate limited government and expanded personal freedom are now associated with radical hate groups and various \"extreme-right\" affiliations.


Now simply standing up for what's right makes you into the \"difficult\" \"crazy\" person who just \"wants to make a scene\".

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dvdchris
May 11, 2009 6:49 AM
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@fantomesq: I think you're giving them more credit than they deserve. This almost certainly is a local franchisee that in a knee-jerk reaction has independently handed down this edict in response to one or two incidents where someone passed a counterfeit bill.
My thinking is reinforced by the fact that this is a crude PC printed sign on white paper done in a McDonald's border template.
This is not the policy at any McD's in this area.
In my experience, one or two counterfeit bills are passed, and the company gets all hardcore about how to identify counterfeits and comes up with policies about cash handling that are forgotten in six months and counterfeits aren't passed for a couple of years and the cycle repeats itself.

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From the cubicle of PGibbons
May 10, 2009 6:15 PM
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@fantomesq: Well then, if McDonald's has done the analysis, I guess we should never question their decision again. After all, they are only looking out for us in every way.

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fantomesq
May 9, 2009 7:05 PM
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@icantreplyright: Both of the incidents you cite - showing IDs for breaking a large bill and showing receipts at the door - are loss prevention measures determined to keep the retailer's unnecessary costs down and ultimately keep prices lower for you the customer.

You are right, you have the right to refuse and take your business elsewhere but keeping the business healthy is necessary for its longevity. If you appreciate the retailer being there than these really are very small steps to take to help ensure that they will last, especially in this economic situation.

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LibertyReign
May 11, 2009 10:31 PM
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@fantomesq:


Actually, inhert, fruitless practices such as these are generally theatre. They decrease the longevity of the company as anyone with a brain has pointed out they don't actually PREVENT any fraud whatsoever. What it does do, is inspire discernable, responsible consumers to shop elsewhere.


I would argue that these practices have little to do with fraud in general, and are in fact a sympthom of the larger problem of blatant consumerism with a complete lack of respect for privacy and personal responsibility.


Now you get carded at IHOP, at McDonald's, at 7-11. at the card swipe, at the checkout counter, at the exit, in your car, on the sidewalk, and in some places even at your own front door.


I don't even bother trying to educate people who say \"why not just show your I.D.\" anymore, because I understand that you are suffering from a cultural sickness, and you can't help it. My only question is will there EVER be a time? a place? a circumstance? in which even you feel like something is a violation of your rights and should be resisted?


When will asking for YOUR i.d. offend YOU? Never?

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ludwigk
May 9, 2009 10:35 PM
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@fantomesq: Staffing the door increases costs. By not showing my receipt, I'm saving that employee's time and bandwidth, thus cutting costs for them.

Since I'm not stealing anything, it makes no difference to their costs whether I show a receipt or not.

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Révolution
May 10, 2009 4:22 AM
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@ludwigk: Wait. Employees are made of network equipment?

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fantomesq
May 9, 2009 11:38 PM
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@ludwigk: Its a protection against errors as well as theft. Keep in mind that if your receipt doesn't match what you actually bought returns can be difficult at best and on big ticket items you may have no warranty without accurate proof of purchase. Give the retailers a break. Their efforts at loss prevention are all about maintaining costs so they don't need to increase prices to compensate.

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LibertyReign
May 11, 2009 11:42 PM
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@fantomesq:


This could be done at the register. Please don't just start making shit up to promote your bullshit idealogy. The receipt and the goods belong to ME now, you can check the back of my ass as I walk out the nearest exit WITHOUT showing you shit..

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From the cubicle of PGibbons
May 10, 2009 6:17 PM
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@fantomesq: Perhaps you've never seen what the receipt checkers do most of the time. It's a casual glance, they don't check for \"errors.\" Mainly they want to enforce compliance with their power trip - if you stop, you're good to go. If you pass, they screw with you. Visit any Worst Buy to see it play out.

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utensil42
May 9, 2009 8:08 PM
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@fantomesq: If they really wanted to prevent loss they would focus their attention on employee theft. Most of the loss that a retailer suffers is at the hands of employees; retailers seem to forget that fact.

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LibertyReign
May 11, 2009 11:02 PM
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@utensil42:


They already have their employee's docs, the next logical step is to start a file on your customers. This is about getting people used to giving up their docs for EVERYTHING. End of story. It has nothing to do with fraud protection, unless you believe that McDonald's is being run by incompetant children who have no idea how money, business, and food-retail works. Any asshat can tell you that this will prevent NOTHING, so then you tell me...why are they doing it? Why post a sign? You know it's going to have adverse affect on your customers, otherwise you wouldn't need to post it. You are already predicting that it will cause a problem just by posting a sign. It's already acknowledged that it is out of the ordinary and that one should expect complaints from the public unless posted in a conspicuous area. I think people often forget that as a business, Mcdonald's profits off of attracting human beings, and that to attract a human being most efficiently you use psychology. There is a science into turning you into a fat, complacent, fake-hamburger ingesting lamo who will never make a scene or demand a superior product/service.

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fantomesq
May 9, 2009 9:08 PM
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@utensil42: No retailer I have ever worked with has forgotten that fact but that does not mean they need to turn a blind eye to consumer fraud either.

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fantomesq
May 9, 2009 9:07 PM
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@utensil42: @Shoelace: Then you have that choice - refuse to show ID and they'll refuse to take your $50 bill.

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LibertyReign
May 11, 2009 11:15 PM
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@fantomesq:


Except I have a right to keep my I.D. to myself, and the company does NOT have a right to refuse Federal Reserve notes..and like I said before the problem isn't ONE shopping experience at McDonald's..its your attitude in general which has made it increasingly impossible to shop anonymously anywhere anymore..

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Zain
May 12, 2009 12:12 AM
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@LibertyReign: The company does have a right to refuse Federal reserve notes. They can demand payment in whatever terms they wish, even jelly beans if they wanted. Please get your facts straight.

[www.treas.gov]

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dragonfire81
May 12, 2009 3:00 AM
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@Zain: If you come in to my store and object to our policies then you take it up with corporate as THEY are the ones who SET THE POLICIES. No one at the local management level, even a district manager has ANY control whatsoever over company policy.

The policy is ID required. Regardless of what the merchant agreements say, that's what we've been told to do. I agree this is a flimsy policy but that's what was put in place. If you take issue with it then send off an EECB, don't badger someone at the counter like me just because we're forced to follow a policy that shouldn't really be there to begin with.

No one is putting a gun to your head and demanding your ID, if you don't want to show ID for a credit purchase at our store, then you can shop elsewhere.

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dragonfire81
May 9, 2009 8:14 PM
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@utensil42: Where I work we are required to ask for ID on all Credit Card Purchases. I got written up once for not doing it because it was a violation of policy.

Unfortunately because of the fraudsters, retailers and businesses have to resort to asking for ID and such more and more, it shouldn't have to be that way, but it is.

There are some transactions you simply can't do without showing some ID or giving up some personal information.

I understand citizens have a right to refuse to surrender ID or give personal information, but businesses also have a right to protect themselves.

If run a business, I have a right to ask for ID if I choose. If you don't like that, you can shop at another business.

The truth is the majority of people don't really care if they have to flash their drivers license momentarily to complete a purchase.

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LibertyReign
May 11, 2009 11:09 PM
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@dragonfire81:


No..the real truth is that they SHOULD care.. it's really really really dangerous when showing your papers becomes common-place in a free society. Not recognizing the patterns doesn't make you less of a jerk then the guy in front of you who is actually COMPLAINING about being treated like a serial number.


The real truth is demanding I.D. prevents absolutely nothing except you getting my business. Credit card purchases are protected. Not only that but it is a violation of Mastercard's and Visa's rules to demand I.D. so NO, a COMPANY DOES NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO DEMAND I.D. it is in fact a VIOLATION of THEIR CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATION(Now that has been posted on Consumerist for 9,999th +1 time)


What they have the right to do is opt out of having a merchant account with master card and accept cash and checks as payment. Once you accept mastercard you forfeit the right to demand conditions on my purchase, hence WHY I USE MASTERCARD.


..and one more time for the record..I do not have an I.D. so where does that fit in to your little scheme of things? I want to see you type it for everyone that I should have to register myself with the state in order to buy food.

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From the cubicle of PGibbons
May 10, 2009 6:11 PM
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@dragonfire81: If your business advertises that it accepts VISA, then you don't have the \"right\" to refuse to complete the transaction simply because the customer chooses not to show you their ID. Sorry, I will refuse that creepy fuck running the register the pleasure of knowing where I live. If you don't like it, take it up with VISA, as it's plainly written into the merchant agreement *YOU* signed. And if you are going to be an a*hole about it, I'll probably spend my money at your competitor in the future as you wish.

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Anonymous
May 10, 2009 4:31 PM
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@dragonfire81: Uh, you actually can't refuse a credit card transaction based on the customer declining to show a Govt Issued ID.

If you run a business and choose to accept Visa/Mastercard/AmEx/Discover, you as the business owner have to accept the terms and conditions that those companies impose upon you. If you don't want to accept those forms of payment thats fine, but if you do so, you are bound by the the contract signed with the credit card processor.

It doesn't matter what the majority of people will do in a particular situation, it matters what is right.

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utensil42
May 9, 2009 8:36 PM
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@dragonfire81: I don't mind a quick ID flash for a credit card purchase--I think it actually keeps me safer. However, for cash purchases, I should not have to show ID. No one should ever be writing down my ID information. I should not have to show a receipt as I leave a store if the merchandise is clearly in a bag from that store.

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LibertyReign
May 11, 2009 11:13 PM
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@utensil42:


You think it makes you safer because you are ignorant. The problem is it makes you LESS safe, and the only reason *I* care is it makes ME less safe as well, because as you can see when people who are ignorant of their rights and ignorant of how money works adhere to these dangerous policies, it makes it impossible for discerning people like myself to buy and sell goods. You are imposing your fascist bullshit way of life onto me and I do not appreciate it. i would appreciate it if you grew a back bone and picked up a book. This way we would all not have to suffer harassmentdue to your ignorance.


..also credit card purchases ARE cash.. its the whole point..you are supposed to be able to drop it like it's hot and then move on.. no fuss no muss, the slogan used to be \"as easy as cash\".. the idea that you would have to show an I.D. and have personal information taken down for writing a check was half of the marketing strategy for the CC companies..

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From the cubicle of PGibbons
May 10, 2009 6:14 PM
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@utensil42: In what possible way do you feel \"safer\" by showing an anonymous stranger your home address and DL# in conjunction with your credit card number? That's such a weird conception of \"safety.\"

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LibertyReign
May 11, 2009 11:46 PM
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@PGibbons:


@utensil42: In what possible way do you feel \"safer\" by showing an anonymous stranger your home address and DL# in conjunction with your credit card number? That's such a weird conception of \"safety.\"


LOL.. and it's majority view *shudders in terror*

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Ben Wellington
May 9, 2009 6:33 PM
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You need to change the headline to \"Breaking $50...\". Just remember the old rule, > ≠ ≥

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outoftheblew
May 10, 2009 12:42 AM
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@Ben Wellington: Ditto. This article confused me. The only place breaking a $20 is mentioned is in the headline.

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corruptsuperspy
May 9, 2009 6:37 PM
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Wow. Totally not what the sign says at all.

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Julia789
May 9, 2009 6:44 PM
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Is it illegal to require photo ID when paying with U.S. currency? Seems like something privacy advocates would be in a real huff about.

I'm still annoyed I have to scan my driver's license AND sign a statement that I have read the Patriot Act just to buy ONE BOX of Sudafed when I get a cold. Apparently if you buy too many boxes, the feds will bash down your door and look for a chem lab.

Shouldn't the burden be on the company to train the cashiers to spot fake bills? At the Cosi where I get lunch sometimes, the cashiers have had some kind of training. They hold large bills up to the light and look for something before accepting them.

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10 replies
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From the cubicle of PGibbons
May 10, 2009 6:19 PM
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@Julia789: \"Read the Patriot Act\"?? That must be a joke - even the congress schmucks that VOTED for it didn't read it beforehand.

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Julia789
May 11, 2009 12:01 AM
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@PGibbons: Only partially was I being tongue-in-cheek.

The pharmacy really has a portion of the Patriot Act, which specifically regulates the purchase of Sudafed and states the warning about jail and fines for purchasing it under false pretenses, on display at the counter. Then the purchaser of the Sudafed has to sign a release statement agreeing that they have read that portion of the Patriot Act and understand the penalties, along with scanning their driver's license, before they can purchase one box of Sudafed cold & sinus. Not kidding.

Part of the Patriot Act regulates Sudafed and purchasers of Sudafed are supposed to read that portion before each purchase. Some pharmacies just tack it on the wall, others make you sign a statement that you've read and understand it each time. All require a driver's license be recorded, per the Patriot Act.

Perhaps they should have similar restrictions for those in congress. Congress members will have to read through the entire thing, scan their driver's license, and sign a statement saying under penalty of law they have read and understand all portions.

:-)

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samoffer
May 9, 2009 7:24 PM
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@Julia789: I think you would also be annoyed if there was a meth lab down the street. It's little things like this that make a big difference for everyone. Think of it as your little role in fighting drug abuse. When you frame it that way, I don't think you will be as annoyed.

Nonetheless, I wish the world was a perfect place and we could eliminate that little delay in getting you medicine when you're not feeling well!

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trujunglist
May 11, 2009 8:39 PM
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@samoffer:

You could use that excuse for just about anything, you know? \"Well, the reason we're stopping you at the border is because we're doing checks for illegal immigration. Think of it as your little role in fighting illegal immigration.\" ... OK, except that it isn't used to fight illegal immigration, it's used to perform warrantless searches on any vehicle they're determined to search. Look out hippies, you don't want to be on the highway from California to Arizona right around Yuma.
That's just a short step from them doing random car searches at every intersection. You're just doing your little part in the fight against _________!

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chatterboxwriting
May 10, 2009 1:11 PM
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@samoffer: If I wanted a role in fighting drug abuse, I'd become a DEA agent.

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Julia789
May 10, 2009 12:44 AM
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@samoffer: I can understand perhaps if it is a state where meth labs are a problem. My pharmacist said that in his 20 years as a pharmacist in Connecticut, no one has purchased more than one box of Sudafed at a time in his store. Wouldn't a pharmacist phone local police if someone came in looking strung out and purchased several boxes?

I'm not against having the boxes kept behind the counter so the pharmacist can keep an eye on them, it's the scanning the ID and reading a portion of the Patriot Act and signing stating I've read it each and every time that is a pain in the rear.

Maybe the laws about signing for Sudafed should be left up to the individual states. That way if meth labs area problem in that area, they can adjust the laws accordingly?

I don't know a thing about meth, it's never been a problem in our area. None of the drug arrests in our newspapers mention that drug, usually in this state the paper mentions other drugs. However, I've read how it's a problem in other areas of the country, and understand the concern.

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truss
May 10, 2009 3:04 AM
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@Julia789: I live in Oregon and our wonderful legislature decided a few years ago that the general public can't be trusted with sudafed, so they passed a law requiring a prescription from a doctor in order to get it. What's worse is once you get an Rx from the doc, you have to pay nearly $5 a pill for them! It is a total joke. Most people I know just drive the twenty minutes across the river to Washington and buy them over the counter without a prescription.

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Con Sumer Zealot
May 10, 2009 12:37 AM
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@samoffer: Sam it is not McDonald's Job to wage war on counterfeiters - that is the Secret Service's job. Your, mine and everyone else's drive through experience should not be coopted / ruined from now on with lines backing up for 4 blocks because some stupid paranoid pinhead busybody somewhere in McDonald's corporate wants to be \"safe\" with a new procedure that doesn't make anyone safe.

Your particular mindset is why we are all losing quality of life. \"Just deal with it - if you object you must have something to hide / be a counterfeiter\". That is the same kind of thinking that led to concentration camps in Nazi Germany \"If you aren't a Jew, you have nothing to fear, etc.\"

The \"little\" difference you want to make as a busybody is not justified in the world of inconveniences you'd likely want to force on everyone else because you fear meth labs. Your security preferences end where my rights begin.

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reynwrap582
May 10, 2009 5:17 AM
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@Con Sumer Zealot: You're missing a huge point. When McDonald's accepts a counterfeit bill, and then sends it to the bank for deposit, and the bank catches it and says \"Sorry, this is counterfeit?\" Who do you think pays for it? The bank doesn't reimburse McDonald's for counterfeit money, neither does the federal government. McDonald's takes the loss. If someone paid with a fake $50 bill, McDonald's is out the $40-something in REAL money that they gave as change, as well as their actual cost of the product.

They're not battling counterfeiting, they're battling taking large losses due to accepting counterfeit bills.

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Con Sumer Zealot
May 10, 2009 6:25 AM
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@reynwrap582: Well then why can't they check 50s and 20s just like they check any other bill? The checking procedures are the same. Bottom line, this is no valid reason to discriminate against larger bills.

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FLConsumer
May 9, 2009 8:01 PM
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@samoffer: The \"War on Drugs\" has been about as useless as \"The War on Terror\". I personally go out of my way to avoid supporting either when possible. If this country would handle drugs as a personal medical problem rather than criminal, we'd have made some progress by now.

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joellevand
May 9, 2009 10:01 PM
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@FLConsumer: This.

I have chronic nasal congestion. It drives me up a wall and down again when I buy Zyrtec-D, Claritin-D, or Advil Cold and Sinus every six days (12 in a pack, each lasts 12 hours) and have to fork over my ID for logging because we're fighting a \"war\" that doesn't even have to be a war -- we just have to admit that drug addiction is a disease and the individuals need treatment, not jail time! (BTW, I don't know if proponents of the War on Drugs are aware, but there's drugs in the jails! So sending addicts to jail really isn't helpful!\"

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Con Sumer Zealot
May 10, 2009 12:43 AM
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@joellevand: Exactly! Why don't we have a war on incompetent or corrupt prison wardens?

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Julia789
May 10, 2009 12:33 AM
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@joellevand: I have chronic sinus infections. I need to take Sudafed it's the only thing that does it for me. Otherwise I have to get a prescription and a doctor visit with $40 copay.

When they changed Sudafed to \"behind the counter\" and started requiring ID, they replaced much of the product on regular shelves with a new formulation, as an alternative to the regulated stuff. I tried it and it doesn't work.

When I mentioned it to the pharmacist, he said \"Always get the stuff behind the counter. That new stuff they replaced it with on the shelves does basically NOTHING. They haven't even tested it for sinus pressure relief - it is an ingredient that has been tested for use topically, on the skin. It's perfectly safe but it does almost NOTHING for you.\" He of course used all the official names for the chemical ingredients but I can't remember them.

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DreamTheEndless: Death's little brother
May 10, 2009 4:25 PM
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@Julia789: Doctors and pharmacists will all tell you the same thing. Phenylephrine (Sudafed PE) is not an effective decongestant. Pseudoephedrine is proven to be very effective and very safe, but unfortunately can be used in the manufacture of illegal drugs.
This legislation has reduced the number of micro-labs and increased the number of superlabs that buy these chemicals in bulk from other countries. Manufacturers are now more organized and producing more than ever.

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NeverLetMeDown
May 9, 2009 7:19 PM
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@Julia789:

It's not illegal to require the ID - hey, you could say \"you must strip nude and sing the national anthem backwards if you want me to sell you a hamburger.\"

Basically, unless you're refusing service for a specifically proscribed reason (i.e. \"I don't serve black people.\") you can pretty much do as you please.

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Alarmpro
May 10, 2009 11:00 AM
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@Con Sumer Zealot: It's legal tender yes, but that means they only have to accept currency for \"debts\". Since the transaction is incomplete, it is not a \"debt\" yet. Now, if it was a real sit-down restaurant and you already ate, it would be a \"debt\" and they would have to accept any denomination of currency.

That is my interpretation, and I'm not a lawyer. But I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night!

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Mark Saalwaechter
May 9, 2009 6:51 PM
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I hate to be a pain, but some of these headlines show no reading comprehension or reasoning skills.

OVER $20.

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fantomesq
May 9, 2009 7:11 PM
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@Mark Saalwaechter: It's unnecessary sensationalism - the headline wouldn't attract the same outrage or response if they said ID required for $50 bill... It seems that the first point of writing complaints is to be solid on the facts on which you are complaining - which these headlines are not - but that appears to be wholly intentional.

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jaydez
May 9, 2009 6:52 PM
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so everyone has to show ID now? have you eaten at McD's recently? 2 \"value\" meals will put you well over $10 everywhere in the US and in NYC it bet they will put you close to $20 anyway.

This is BS. What do they do with the info anyway? If you gave them a fake 20 its just in a pile with the rest and no one will remember who gave what 20 to the cashier.

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harlock_JDS
May 11, 2009 4:47 PM
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@jaydez:

My bet it's less about worry about counterfeit bills and more about not having to break large bills and running out of change as the day goes on.

Not to mention requiring ID will be enough to chase off people that are looking to defraud... It's just easier to go somewhere where they don't check id's (likely right next door).

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Con Sumer Zealot
May 10, 2009 12:44 AM
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@jaydez: It's called building a marketing list so they can harass us with more \"value meal\" offers. It is their alternative to a frequent shopper card. Marketing by security.

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fantomesq
May 10, 2009 2:13 AM
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@Con Sumer Zealot: There's no evidence of this. They aren't even recording the information, so no marketing list.

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humphrmi
May 9, 2009 8:00 PM
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@jaydez: The sign says over $20. So $50.

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ophmarketing
May 9, 2009 10:20 PM
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@humphrmi: So I'm OK to keep using my $18 bills without showing ID. Well, that's a relief.

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humphrmi
May 10, 2009 12:18 AM
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@ophmarketing: Read the sign in the picture. It says \"Bills larger that $20 require photo ID.\" You can pay with a $20 without photo ID. The headline is wrong.

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fantomesq
May 9, 2009 7:32 PM
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@jaydez: Not hardly everyone... maybe 1% at best. How many people actually break a $50 bill for their purchase? I'd like to bet most purchases at McDonalds are electronic these days anyway.

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your new nemesis
May 9, 2009 6:56 PM
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They really should just put bouncers at the doors. They could perform searches, check your ID, verify the authenticity of your money, and ensure that you are not carrying a dangerous weapon into the ball pit. They could even distribut pamphlets giving the nutritional info, and make people sign the form releasing mcd's of all liability related to the impending health problems related to their \"food.\"

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From the cubicle of PGibbons
May 10, 2009 6:21 PM
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@skizsrodt: Many posters on this thread would willingly go along with that, as long as McDonalds has done \"analysis\" and says it's ok to do.

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Coles_Law
May 9, 2009 8:29 PM
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@skizsrodt: Yes, because that's completely equivalent to a placard the size of an index card.

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Hello_Secaucus
May 9, 2009 7:00 PM
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Seems like someplace to go and pay in $2 bills.

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PLATTWORX
May 9, 2009 7:02 PM
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HOLD ON....


In fairness why does the title of this story say \"Breaking $20 At McDonald's? Get Ready To Show Some ID\" when the sign shown CLEARLY says \"BILLS LARGER THAN $20\" which means $50 or higher.


Come on! I love this site but the headline is wrong and misleads you. Please, Consumerist staff, read twice before posting to make sure you have it right before this site looses it's credibilty.

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JulesNoctambule
May 9, 2009 9:23 PM
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@PLATTWORX: Given that it's McDonald's, I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if some cashiers extend it to $20 bills since they are mentioned on the sign, after all.

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fantomesq
May 9, 2009 7:29 PM
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@PLATTWORX: It hasn't been fixed, has it? It wasn't an error but intentional sensationalism.

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nforcer
May 9, 2009 7:26 PM
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@PLATTWORX: Well, there was the canned salmon thing, too. Today just must be a bad day for Carey.

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wcnghj
May 9, 2009 7:18 PM
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They better not start doing that for CC purchases unless they like being reported to VISA, MC and AMEX.

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TEW
May 10, 2009 4:12 AM
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@wcnghj: I was at my local Wal-Mart and if you wanted to pay with credit/debit/check you needed to show ID. I am happy about this because it will help cut down of theft because they can match it with the name on the card/ check. I don't know how asking for ID with cash will help other than it might scare away some stupid teens.

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David Schwartz
May 11, 2009 6:59 PM
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@TEW: How does it help cut down on theft? They can't refuse to accept the card even if the ID doesn't match, nor can they refuse to accept the card if they think the ID is fake.

It could only down on theft if they use the ID to make a decision to deny the card, which they cannot do (both by law and by their merchant agreement).

You are probably imagining that they look at the ID and then make some kind of decision whether or not to accept the card. But that's not their decision, they aren't the ones issuing you credit.

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henwy
May 9, 2009 7:26 PM
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@wcnghj:

Not very bright, sunshine. Reading comprehension ftl.

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wcnghj
May 9, 2009 7:53 PM
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@henwy:

I know that don't do it for CCs, yet..

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MFfan310
May 9, 2009 7:20 PM
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Many of the McDonald's locations here in Fort Wayne won't even take greenbacks larger than $20. However, they gladly point out that \"all major credit and debit cards are accepted\".

I guess 2-3% interchange fees are less worrisome to Mickey D's than counterfeit dollar bill fraud...

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nforcer
May 9, 2009 7:27 PM
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@MFfan310: Well, yeah.

Credit/debit card purchase with service charge: >$0
Counterfeit bill turned in at a bank: $0

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Anonymous
May 12, 2009 9:12 PM
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@nforcer: That would be true if the average cost of a year's worth of services charges was less than the average number of counterfeit bills received.

Security is all about balance. Balance the cost of the security measure against the cost of the security threat. If the prevention measure is more expensive than just accepting the cost of the threat, it's better to accept the threat.

If it's $5,000 worth of service fees to prevent $100 worth of counterfeit bills in a year, it's better to just eat the cost of the counterfeits

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azntg
May 9, 2009 7:23 PM
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Guess I'll stick to my credit card to make payments in fast food stores with policies like those.

I'll enjoy the grace period float and not having to deal with the one-off cashier who really struggles to make change (yes, even in a fast food joint where the change due is listed on the register...).

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From the cubicle of PGibbons
May 10, 2009 6:22 PM
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@azntg: But then your credit card bank will analyze the number of times you've charged fast food, decide you're a credit risk, and cancel your card. And just wait until your health \"insurance\" gets ahold of that purchase history...

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Asmordean
May 9, 2009 7:24 PM
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I used to manage a fast food location about 10 years ago. The sign is kind of funny because of a few things.

First, in the 7 years I ran the place we only had 9 counterfeit bills and 9 out of 9 were $20. People tend to distrust anything over a $20 and thus scrutinize $50 and $100 very close just in case.

The second, what the heck is photo ID going to do for the store?

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barty
May 11, 2009 1:22 PM
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@Asmordean: Yep, the US $20 bill is the most counterfeited bill in the world. Yet almost anywhere you go, people will take them without blinking an eye, but the pens and UV lamps come out if you try to spend a $50 or $100.

Go figure.

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harlock_JDS
May 11, 2009 1:30 PM
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@barty:

Unfortunately they can't make too much of a fuss about people using 20's (despite them being counterfeited a lot) because that's what most ATMs in that area dispense (most have a min of 20$ and a lot make you withdraw in multiples of 20's).

I'm sure they use the pin on those.

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TerribleDecade
May 9, 2009 7:26 PM
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Really? And this is the more affluent part of NYC? I'd expect to see these signs at poorer neighborhoods.

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harlock_JDS
May 11, 2009 12:04 PM
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@TerribleDecade:

Affluent? Have you everactually been to Penn Station/MSG?

Most places in the area won't take bills larger than 50 at least they will here if you show them an id...

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Coles_Law
May 9, 2009 8:30 PM
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@TerribleDecade: I'd think bills larger than $20 would be more common in well-to-do areas.

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ophmarketing
May 9, 2009 10:23 PM
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@Coles_Law: Not at all. I worked for two different branches of a local bank when I was in college. One was in a pretty upper middle class area. Most everyone who came in with a check deposited it straightaway. The other branch was in a..we'll say \"dicey\" neighborhood. Nine times out of ten, people coming in with checks (usually paychecks) would a) cash, rather than deposit, them; and b) ask for the cash in \"big bills.\"

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Coles_Law
May 10, 2009 1:53 AM
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@ophmarketing: Aha. Good to know-thanks for the clarification. One incorrect assumption of mine down, thousands to go. :)

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azntg
May 9, 2009 10:10 PM
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@Coles_Law: The area around Penn Station / MSG is not exactly a well-to-do area. It's rather gritty compared to other parts of Midtown Manhattan.

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Thorny
May 9, 2009 7:49 PM
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The way things are going, kids will need to show ID to get soda pretty soon too.

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harlock_JDS
May 11, 2009 1:31 PM
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@Thorny:

Might not be a bad idea to stop selling soda's to kids...

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Con Sumer Zealot
May 10, 2009 12:47 AM
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@Thorny: Oh exactly. We don't need soda in the hands of CRIMINALS! Our soda MUST BE PROTECTED!

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Anonymous
May 9, 2009 7:51 PM
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I've never worked in retail or fastfood, but I'm pretty sure there are cameras above all the cashiers. Maybe the \"showing ID\" is just for the cameras... in case they later determine that one of the bills is counterfeit, they at least have another clue as to who the person is (even an Alias is better than nothing). Just a guess.

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Jeremy W. Simmons
May 9, 2009 8:11 PM
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Not is this situation, but what if you decide to go for a walk and there's a fast food joint half a mile down the road and all you bring is that one $50 bill that you have? It's fast food, not some fancy restaurant.

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rdwarrior
May 10, 2009 8:48 AM
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@Con Sumer Zealot: I've never understood why people think everyone has to accept every denomination. It's not against the law to refuse to accept certain currencies.

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David Schwartz
May 11, 2009 7:03 PM
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@rdwarrior: Yep. Someone sued a city over \"exact change only\" buses, arguing that their non-exact change was legal tender.

In fact, the only circumstance in which a person cannot refuse any lawful currency is in payment for a debt, and even then they can impose reasonable conditions. (So you can't deliver a million dollars in one dollar bills at a random time to their small office and demand a signed receipt.)

When you're proposing a transaction, either party can impose any requirements they want on the form of immediate payment.

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JoseRZ
May 9, 2009 11:59 PM
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@Jeremy W. Simmons:
Why would you not carry an id. No fear of being hit by a car, going in to a coma, then dying and only being known as J. Doe.

I think about these type of situations to much.

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trujunglist
May 11, 2009 8:44 PM
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@JoseRZ:

Not everyone even has an ID.

Side note: why worry about what happens when you die? You're dead. Who cares if they can ID you or not? Personally, I hope I go out with my middle fingers a blazin'. There's my ID, biatch.

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From the cubicle of PGibbons
May 10, 2009 6:24 PM
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@JoseRZ: If you're regularly eating at McDonalds you are probably little concerned about issues of mortality.

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fantomesq
May 9, 2009 9:16 PM
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@Jeremy W. Simmons: Then they would either waive the requirement or lose your business.

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Con Sumer Zealot
May 10, 2009 12:49 AM
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@fantomesq: Um the point is they have a cash register, therefore they don't have the right to turn it down - they can make change and it's legal tender.

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fantomesq
May 10, 2009 12:54 AM
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@Con Sumer Zealot: Um, no. They can straight out refuse large bills whether or not they are able to make change. Its risk avoidance.

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Anonymous
May 9, 2009 8:34 PM
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Counterfeit detection pens don't work. They have a tincture of iodine and are intended to detect starch. This is under the assumption that counterfeiters would use cheap paper (that has starch on it) to PRINT MONEY.

James Randi used to withdraw hundreds of dollars from the bank every week, spray them with starch, and return them just to mess with people.

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JoshReflek
May 9, 2009 9:13 PM
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this note is legal tender for all debts public and private


no you cant see my i.d.

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JoseRZ
May 10, 2009 12:07 AM
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@JoshReflek:

Actually their is no law that requires a person or goverment agency to accept any currency or coins.
[www.ustreas.gov]

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rpm773
May 9, 2009 9:44 PM
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@JoshReflek: Yeah! Give 'em hell!

Of course then they'll say something like \"No you can't have chicken nuggets. Not yours!\"

What then? Raise the stakes or walk out in shame?

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lannister80
May 9, 2009 9:15 PM
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Reading comprehension failure. Bills LARGER than $20.

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B
May 10, 2009 3:27 AM
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@lannister80: Exactly, so this means the cashier has to provide ID when handing you a bill for more than $20?

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AngryK9
May 9, 2009 9:25 PM
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This may seem like a pointless measure, but it isn't. Usually it is not the hardened counterfeiters that are likely to be using the funny money in a place like McDonald's. It is more likely that it will be a completely innocent bystander that has absolutely no idea that the $50 that he/she just plopped down is fake. That said, knowing the identification of the person can help track down where it originally came from.

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Con Sumer Zealot
May 10, 2009 6:29 AM
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@AngryK9: @AngryK9: @oneliketadow: @dantsea: You CANNOT be made to show an ID for presenting legal tender. Period. That's the federal law.

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fantomesq
May 10, 2009 3:10 PM
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@Con Sumer Zealot: Cite your source... The \"all debts public and private\" notes only work for existing debts.

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Winteridge2
May 9, 2009 9:29 PM
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The point, to me, is not a $20 or a $50 or $100 bill. The point is providing ID to pay cash for something! Come on, there are no more gold coins. Do I have to pay in quarters? Why does a server need to know who I am to pay for a garbageburger?

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fantomesq
May 9, 2009 9:42 PM
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@Winteridge2: They don't... pay with a $20 bill or less

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AngryK9
May 9, 2009 9:31 PM
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Also, to Carey, I hope that was sarcasm, because I pay for lunch at McDonald's with a $20 bill often, since that is the lowest denomination the banks ATM will dispense. Does that instantly make me a counterfeiter? :P


Maybe the ATM is the counterfeiter! Yeah, that's it!

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oneliketadow
May 9, 2009 9:34 PM
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\"$20\" != \">$20\"

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STrRedWolf
May 9, 2009 9:47 PM
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This is where you pull out your chipped Visa or Amex, swipe it over the card terminal, and forget about handing your $20 over to them.

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eabu
May 9, 2009 11:20 PM
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obviously, the title of this story is completely wrong. showing ID for 50 and 100 dollar bills, that is not headline news.

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fantomesq
May 9, 2009 11:44 PM
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@eabu: Sensationalism sells papers and increases viewership. Inaccurate facts and undeserved outrage create sceptical readers. Sad when websites are so quick to sell their credibility

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Bruce
May 10, 2009 12:04 AM
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Ummm, I'm *NOT* Lovin it.

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Con Sumer Zealot
May 10, 2009 12:12 AM
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UMMM...NO! Why can't McDonald's just handle this normally like every other merchant does - turn in the counterfeit bills to the Secret Service, along with a video of the car license plate?!

Oh no that's right because we are all potential criminals and they have to gradually squeeze us more and more in every area, on every level until we have no freedom, no common sense and cannot enjoy anything - ever.

I can only imagine what is next - retinal scans and finger prints at the drive thru screen with spikes to puncture your tires if you are invalid, and you have to have your criminal record with you so they can check it to allow you to buy a \"value\" meal.

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dantsea
May 10, 2009 1:24 AM
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@Con Sumer Zealot: I'd say that their current policy is picture-perfect:

1. It deters criminals going for the last-mile payoff from passing those counterfeit bills.

2. It discourages customers from presenting large bills.

3. It keeps the tinfoil hat contingent hysterical, fearful and most important, away from them.

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fantomesq
May 10, 2009 1:33 AM
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@dantsea: LOL! Sums it up entirely! This is no slippery slope, Zealot, but a reasonable response to what must have been a localized problem at this McDonalds. They don't want to turn away business but have deemed that the risk is too high on these few high denomination cash transactions.

Retinal scans for drive through purchases? Hell, they don't even require PIN passwords/signatures for most fast food purchases.

Paranoid much Zealot?

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Con Sumer Zealot
May 10, 2009 6:32 AM
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@fantomesq: Nope just broadly observant. 5 years from now you'll be sitting at the drive thru saying as they scan your eyeball and you insert your state microchipped RFID id - deja vu - some guy was telling me about this a while back....who was that? Pretty much in the same cloud you're in now, just further along toward the cliff.

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MyTQuinn
May 10, 2009 1:00 AM
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Would I want to show a photo ID when making a cash purchase? No. However, they are perfectly within their rights to require me to do so, as long as the requirement is disclosed prior to initiating the transaction/order. If I don't like it, I can go somewhere else. But if they take my order before disclosing this requirement, then they are overstepping their bounds.

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dantsea
May 10, 2009 1:25 AM
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@MyTQuinn: Unless they're hiding the big sign in the picture on this post under the counter, they're covered.

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Dansc29625
May 10, 2009 1:03 AM
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I know the Taco Bell nearby has a sign that says they don't take 50's or 100's. They cite being investigated by the secret service.

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fantomesq
May 10, 2009 1:34 AM
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@Dansc29625: A money laundering angle... interesting. :)

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nocturnaljames
May 10, 2009 1:45 AM
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LARGER than $20, in other words, a $50 bill. How many people really need to pay mcdonalds with a $50 bill? Mostly counterfeiters, that's who. Most ordinary people don't carry bills that large, particularly since ATM's dispense 20's. US Bills are too plain and easy to mistake counterfeit for legit. There are a lot of small details to look at, but it's a lot to ask a minimum wage mcdonalds employee to be sharp at detecting these. A common scam is to modify a $5 into a $50, so you still have the security strip, that says \"FIVE\", which is easy to mistake for the correct \"FIFTY\".

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reflection717
May 10, 2009 1:47 AM
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I doubt this is really in place to deter counterfeits. More likely it is there to deter people from using $50 bills without having people argue that all bills are legal tender.
\"Sure you can use that $50 bill but I'm gonna have to see ID.\"
\"Oh, nevermind just take this $20\"

Easier than trying to train cashiers on the finer points of legal tender and the concept of debt.

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Grrrrrrr, now with two buns made of bacon.
May 10, 2009 2:46 AM
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Who the hell pays for McDonald's with a fifty? I hate large bills, and even when you use them at the grocery store the cashier and manager both look at you like you're a criminal.

On the other hand, what good does it do to check ID if the bill is fake? Besides, if I were passing fake bills, I'd just use a fake ID.

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Amanda Davis Reeves
May 10, 2009 3:03 AM
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@ludwigk-you say you aren't stealing, but how does anyone know that? Not saying you are, but how do they know who is and isn't

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redkamel
May 10, 2009 3:29 AM
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has anybody else noticed a delcine in article quality? I still love the site, but I feel there has been a lot more headline mistakes like this and stories that are more \"sensational\" or \"weird\" tales of customer service/bargains than an actual consumer issue or story...like how to go about purchasing certain things/guides, stories about beating big companies, great deals. Its just this weird vibe I get.

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Smashville
May 10, 2009 4:49 AM
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So now that you start begging us for money, you completely quit with the quality control of articles? That's two in one day...

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Alarmpro
May 10, 2009 11:18 AM
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@Smashville: Yeah, and if you say anything about it you will get banned. This is FAR from a 'typo', as the error is repeated in the Headline and text of the article.

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IfThenElvis
May 10, 2009 2:57 PM
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@alarmpro:
Consumerist headlines are sensationalist because their writers are paid per page view.

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PLATTWORX
May 10, 2009 4:57 AM
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1. I am disappointed that this story was posted hours ago with an incorrect headline and STILL not fixed.


2. I do have to say that I am suprised by the number of merchants checking ID these days for credit cards. Wal-Mart and Home Depot have started. Isn't this a violation of their own agreements with MasterCard and Visa????????????

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Rectilinear Propagation
May 11, 2009 12:45 PM
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I am disappointed that this story was posted hours ago with an incorrect headline and STILL not fixed.

@PLATTWORX: OMG, are you serious?!?!

The story was posted on 2PM on a Saturday. Why do you assume that the author even looked at the comments before quitting for the day?

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HeyBickley
May 11, 2009 2:35 PM
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@Rectilinear Propagation: I assume the authors look at their source material before posting, not the comments.

It's not really that demanding to ask that someone proof their post before putting it up, comments aside.

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TEW
May 10, 2009 2:06 PM
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@PLATTWORX:
I am sure that Visa and MasterCard love them checking for an ID. They are responsible for a stolen card's purchases so I am sure they are happy.

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fantomesq
May 10, 2009 3:14 PM
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@TEW: Visa and Mastercard take the reports but rarely follow up with the vendors. That's why threatening to turn them into MC/Visa is such an empty threat.

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crazydavythe1st
May 10, 2009 6:12 AM
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I'll probably be disenvowed, but stuff like the salmon article (which admittedly was eventually fixed), this, and the constant tip jar articles that promise \"ad free blogging\" while flashing no less then two ads off to the side are really making me lose interest in this site. I actually enjoyed some of the Gawker ads, especially the Gawker artist ads, and what y'all are doing is MUCH worse then the ads I dealt with when they owned the site. Calling this site ad free is complete bullshit.

Although to be fair, I think the decline started when the commenting rules were introduced. I think many people (including myself) liked being able to go either way (in the company's favor or the op's favor) in their support regarding an issue. Some people took this to an extreme, but now you can't hardly say anything that isn't in support of the op without inducing the wrath of Roz. This site is no longer a credible information source; the journalistic integrity of this site has been reduced to that of a tabloid. It's no wonder Gawker dumped y'all.

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jedsa
May 10, 2009 2:09 PM
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Why pay with a $50 bill for a $7.99 meal?

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Spammy Jones
May 10, 2009 3:09 PM
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Pretty pathetic isnt is. What a joke. McDonalds SUX anyways!

RT
www.privacy-web.net.tc

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digicrom
May 10, 2009 4:02 PM
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First off, for my family of four it costs more than $20 to eat in a McDonald's, and I am in relatively inexpensive San Antonio, TX.

Two, it is very common for the bank to give me $50's and $100's when I pull out cash for the week, so this annoys me to no end. And everybody seems to do it, for example I was getting gas at WallyWorld earlier this week, and the woman told me she couldn't break a $100, are you kidding me, it costs me $40.00 just to fill up the tank..... It's not as if I bought a $2 bag of Sun Chips with a $100, and expected them to make $98.00 in change.

To put in frankly, a $50 or a $100 doesn't mean what it used to.

Lastly, I have stopped trading at McDonald's for the most part, to many of them \"charge\" for an extra BBQ sauce cup... and after I just spent $23.00... they want to gig me for another .69, come on, I know companies need to make a profit and keep losses to a minimum, but these tactics are just to much.

---
-Can I get carbon credits to offset my V-8 fetish?

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Anonymous
May 10, 2009 4:46 PM
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If I were a parent and my 16 year old kid were part of a Mc Donald's crew being forced to engage a felon in the process of committing a crime that turned violent in the confrontation, I'd sue. Every time I hear of some corporate big shot advocating front line workers, especially in jobs that draw minors to them, confront criminals as a cheaper solution to less direct ways, I get angry about it. It would be just as easy to force certain bills be paid by credit or debit card - where an entire anti-fraud system is already established and generally doesn't require Johnny the hard worker to force an escalation. But, oh, but then McDonald's might lose $21.

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almightytora
May 10, 2009 6:05 PM
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The local McDonald's here has a sign that says they won't accept $100 bills.

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humphrmi
May 10, 2009 8:31 PM
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Just today I stopped in at a White Hen Pantry and there was a sign up by the door: \"We do not accept bills larger than $20.\"

Which as we all know of course is legal... [treasury.gov]

So this situation isn't terribly different, if you have a $50 and don't want to show ID, I guess then McDonald's effectively asserts their right not to take the bill.

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imero
May 10, 2009 9:15 PM
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i just purchased breakfast at a mcdonald's in austin this morning and paid with amex. grand total for a bunch of biscuits and cofee for my family was $29.

the cashier asked for my driver's license and wrote down my license number. she said it was \"mcdonald's policy\" to record all license numbers for credit card purchases over $25. baloney!

i don't mind them asking for my driver's license, but i have a problem with them recording my driver's license number.

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jfischer
May 11, 2009 12:00 AM
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Original Poster here... my point was that there is no basis for demanding ID when the customer is paying with cash. Never, ever.

The use of the term \"larger than $20\" also made me chuckle, as all US currency is the same size.

And I'll say it again - if I could forge banknotes, a driver's license would be a trivial task, so it is yet another useless policy that protects no one from anything.

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humphrmi
May 11, 2009 12:52 AM
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@jfischer: I think its likely more of a counterfeiting deterrent than anything else. It's not like they can match the ID with the bills. But if you're a counterfeiter trying to pass off as many fifties as possible and harvest the twenties you get back, you're going to think twice if someone asks to see your ID.

I'm not saying it's right, but it is legal.

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Reid Antonacchio
May 11, 2009 12:42 AM
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@jfischer: You've really never heard of using larger and smaller related to the value of the bill? It's pretty common practice.

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Anonymous
May 11, 2009 12:50 AM
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I think people are missing the point. This policy isn't intended to stop counterfeiters. It's intended to make McDonalds a less attractive place to pass a bogus bill. If McDonalds demands to see your ID, and the Burger King across the street doesn't, the counterfeiter is going to go to Burger King.

Unless he *really* likes those Big Macs.

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kwsventures
May 11, 2009 12:59 AM
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No problem

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rambow681
May 11, 2009 7:20 AM
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I'm surprised no one seems to get how this deters counterfeiting when the original story effectively explains it. McDonald's doesn't need to collect information from IDs and counterfeiters don't need to make fake IDs. All McDonald's needs to do is make it more inconvenient to pass counterfeits at their store than the store next door. If you've got a counterfeit $50 you want to pass, are you going to go to McDonald's and show ID or go to Wendy's where they don't ask for ID?

It's just like car alarms. The honking and flashing lights aren't the point. Between a car with an alarm and one without, the thief will choose the car without.

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usa_gatekeeper
May 11, 2009 12:00 PM
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In the name of national security, I suppose we'll soon be spreading out our currency notes neatly on a tray before moving through airport security so the bills can be scanned (for, lemmee see, scanned for flu virus, anthrax, terrorist fingerprints, being counterfeit, or indications of dust remnants from certain Middle Eastern and Asian countries per current watch list).

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flyromeo3
May 11, 2009 2:21 PM
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I think this is a bit overreacting.


They can use a pen or UV light to determine if the bill is legit.
Why bother asking for ID? People create fake ID's all the time. They dont verify if the drivers license # is real or not.


You really think this will curb counterfeit bills?

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nakedscience
May 11, 2009 2:37 PM
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It's kind of annoying that the OP had to end it with \"Why was I in McD's?\" Who cares? Why do you have to make excuses? Do you feel ashamed?

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Rectilinear Propagation
May 11, 2009 3:13 PM
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@nakedscience: If the OP hadn't said that there would have been this:

\"Why was he in McDonalds? EW!\"

\"Going into McDonalds was the OP's first mistake\"

\"OP should be making their own lunch, it's healthier and cheaper\"

Better one annoying line from the OP than 50 in the comments section.

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dezeinstein
May 11, 2009 5:37 PM
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Why would a talented counterfeiter eat at McDonalds?

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Corporate_guy
May 11, 2009 6:10 PM
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Most places don't accept anything above a 20 due to crime. What is the issue here? I'm surprised McDonald's is willing to be your bank as long as you show a photo id.

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sanjsrik
May 12, 2009 12:47 AM
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Does anyone else wonder WHY they're asking minimum wage people to check IDs in one of the busiest hubs on the East Coast?

Has anyone who works at said mickey d's ever SEEN a foreign passport?

As someone else pointed out, you can much more easily print a fake ID than you can a fake $50. Or, perhaps walk down to Times Square and the numerous fake ID places and get a standard issue BS ID.

This doesn't solve passing counterfeit bills, IF I was going to pass a counterfeit bill I'm MORE than likely to go there once a week now with a fake ID.

Idiots.

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cordeduroi
May 12, 2009 10:05 AM
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\"Why was I at a massage parlor? Easy - ...\"

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personnext
July 14, 2009 10:03 PM
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Ww! r y gys rlly THT stpd?

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