It's simply not just illegal immigrants who are potentially jeopardizing lives out there. Quite a bit of illiterate Americans (who may or may not be "White") out there doing jobs you'd never expect them to do.

It's largely dependent on who and where the airlines are outsourcing maintenance, but work ethics and work quality overseas can be better than right here in the good ol' US of A.

Surely it's cheaper than replacing a whole plan every year or so?

We're too entrenched at this point.

As a demonstration, the reporter showed the bookcase of technical manuals and maintenance logbooks the FAA requires aircraft mechanics to keep and maintain for every aircraft -- in this case, their traffic helicopter. Every book was in English and the mechanic had to certify that they performed every repair in the exact order as prescribed by the FAA.

Another problem the reporter found is that supervisors would substitute the written English examinations necessary to be licensed with oral exams in Spanish.

The problems were observed mostly in smaller, regional airports responsible for local charter services, regional airlines etc...

I believe the term you (and a few others) have been looking for is "Bona Fide Occupational Requirement"

[en.wikipedia.org]

@nicolebuckingham:

Of course, the "insiders" could also be "talking their book." If you've got a large long position in oil, then you've got an incentive to get people to think oil prices will rise, because if they start to think so, then they'll buy oil, and oil prices WILL rise, and you make money.

If what you described is the way they do things (hire non-english speakers and just expect them to do their job even though all their tools are in English), then that would be a different matter and would be the fault of the employers, I would think. It's not the employee's fault that he was hired for a job that involved skills he did not currently have, it's the employer's fault for not making sure that the person they hired can do the job they hired him for.

If the airline did not hire non-english speakers because they could not speak english, and english is a requirement to perform their job safely, I don't think I'd call that discrimination, which is what SteveDave was implying in his first post. If they were using the "must know english" rule as a way to not hire people who are qualified for the job, like maybe a Mexican that reads English fine but has a strong accent, then THAT could be discrimination, because the person can do the job, but is being denied it for bogus reasons.

@I Love New Jersey:

That's probably what the union wants.

@Julia789:

I don't have a problem with inexperienced mechanics working on an aircraft as long as the proper supervision and quality controls are in place.

For all we know, this "certified mechanic" is just a disgruntled employee.

But based on most of your opinions... My 3 year old just got a job at United.. She weads and spweaks engawsh...

If the Certified Mechanics oversee the ones doing the work, but can't communicate with them, then the FAA should require at the FAA's expense- the CM's to learn the languages they deal with daily. But I s'pose they don't want to spend the money, which is why they have low paid, non-English speaking workers doing the work in the first place. Save a few bucks and line some pockets. Make laws against rampant corporate greed and the world becomes a better place. (and don't reply that I'm anti-American. I understand the need for profits, but when the BigBosses sit in the lap of luxury at the expense of the public, we all suffer.) Another solution: post signs at all airports: "WARNING: the mechanic servicing the plane you will be in may not have understood what he was doing. Hiring unqualified workers for low wages keep profits comfortable for us. Have credit card ready for increase in fare, pillows, peanuts, baggage, etc. And good luck!"

[www.redorbit.com]

Basically what happens is that many times an airplane is flown to another country and the service performed there since the costs are so much lower.

The sad thing is that most likely those foreigners read English and are better trained than the majority of the wrench monkeys here (again done to save costs).

"Truth? Quite true I'm afraid. We (pilots and mechanics) have been screaming about this for almost a decade. The truly scary thing is, they want to do the same thing with pilots. Folks like McCain are trying to open up the US markets to foreign (read: cheaper) companies, and the FAA is currently discussing something called a "crew license" where ONLY the Captain will be a rated pilot...the other guy will be an apprentice.

In the drive to lower fares, management has been and continues to cut into safety margins built up over years with experience and blood. Where do you think $89 fares come from? They come from the savings made by outsourcing things like maintenance out of the country. Even Alaska does it, but to Canada...not Central/South America.

But people keep rushing to buy the absolute lowest fare, with little thought to WHY that fare is the lowest...."

Case of you-get-what-you-pay-for?

Heh, or could it be that the airlines are to cheap to by the manual in Espanol? :)

@NeverLetMeDown: Um, actually, anonymous quotes make me pay more attention b/c the quotes may be from insiders. Like, about a year or so before gas prices shot through the rough last year, I read articles that said, "one analyst says prices will soar past $4.00 by June" or "another analyst..." or "one expert..." Not many of these articles came out but when they did I thought it was interesting that the analysts were never named. Sure enough it happened--gas prices went up exactly when they said they would and at the price they said they would. It happens everytime they do this. Why? Because it's insider info.

@jamar0303:

But how much is a bit? Every day, people make tradeoffs about their safety vs. how much they're willing to spend. If they didn't, everyone would install a sprinkler system in his/her home.

The evidence, sadly, is the plane falling to the ground because those responsible didn't bother to follow procedures properly.

I mean, I don't know what was going through your mind, but did you speak up?

If that would be a reality that could be documented, then you have a very good case right there.

@William T. Sprague Jr.: I'd say we aren't the only country that builds and sells things, wouldn't you? I'd be willing to bet that a lot of these manuals already have other versions in other languages.

Now, if they hire non-English speaking workers and give them the tools in English, it's not the worker's fault but of those who make the choices, give the wrong tools to workers, and expect quality.

A: Get IKEA to write the manuals!

Problem solved.

@MichaelBrazell:

It sure as hell should make you feel more secure. You're still an order of magnitude safer flying than driving.

Honestly is may be pretty hard because other languages may not have words for all the technical parts and airplane nomenclature used in a sophisticated manual.

@boomersix:

Notably less often than Fox News.

@savdavid:

Most of the time, yes.

Planes are not falling out of the sky left and right due largely to non-English-speaking mechanics. This sounds like another one of those xenophobic attacks on immigrants. I expect more of these as the recession continues.

1. You have to hire translators who not only know the target language inside and out in a general sense but also know the specialized aeronautics jargon used in the target language. Few people are able to do this.

2. In this context, errors cost lives so the translation has to be double-checked.

3. Updates to the original manuals are frequent, so the translation work is never "done".

To sum up, this is much more costly than translating Hallmark cards or cat food ads.

Then there are problems which translating manuals does not help with:

4. There is always going to be a delay between the production of the original manuals in English and their availability in any other language. What are mechanics who can't speak English supposed to do in the interim?

5. Translating the manuals does not help much with communication between coworkers. Mechanics should all speak a common language.

English is not my mother tongue. I could communicate well in technical computing-jargon English earlier than I was able to discuss the weather in English. Goal-oriented training is the key.

I used to work at a call center and some of the people they hired that were supposedly efficient English speakers were anything but.

On a sidenote, I know many mechanics who aren't the best readers or spellers but have tremendous mechanical aptitude and can fix just about anything.

When you phrase it that way it sounds terrible.

This is ridiculous! Airplanes people? come on. what is the FAA getting paid to do? what's next, the FAA doesn't conduct background checks? they hire illegals to work for less than $10 an hour? If they can make "user's guides", "instruction manuals", and tv guide's in french/spanish/english... i'm sure the FAA could ask for a bi-lingual version. I guess i'm sorta happy the Military Aircraft are "maintained" appropriately.

I'd be safer knowing my tax dollars are doing to coloring/pop-up books that people can see in color pictures on how to maintain an airplane.

@Wombatish: Being able to speak spanish and being able to write spanish are not the same thing. Not that grammar and spelling would matter too much since these mechanics may not be able to read spanish either.

@Julia789: I believe that the cost of the ticket includes paying for certified mechanics, however, in the interest of making money, that went out the window.

I work with translation as part of my job. Many of our international customers ignore the translated manuals entirely and use the English ones because they find the translation quality so bad.

If the manufacturers provide translations, they'd have legal liability for the translation accuracy. My guess is that they have no compelling reason to provide translations, and in fact, not providing them would put them on safer footing legally.

An example: The local light rail recently installed new emergency exit instruction posters. When the train is on an elevated structure, you should not exit to the edges of the structure, "where a falling hazard exists". The Spanish tells you to not exit to the edges "because something can fall on you". The problem really is that the English is written ambiguously for translation. Well, really, the English is just written badly by any criteria. The real danger: If you exit from the edges, you might fall. Which, of course, everyone knew long before the transit authority's lawyers entered the picture, and probably understood better than they do know with the ambiguous English and the incorrect Spanish.

And finally, not my industry, but I have heard at conferences that some of these companies provide specific doc sets for each aircraft that goes out the door -- like if the car manufacturer had a specific owner's manual for each VIN.

Most US carriers outsource their aircraft maintenance -many offshore - to Latin America, Singapore, China, Dubai....

Feel safer now?

[www.businessweek.com]

[www.dallasnews.com]

In addition to safety, I also wonder how many delays and cancelled flights have been because of these non English-speaking mechanics.@Julia789:

Flyers should also be aware that many airlines have outsourced their maintenance to other countries. They've found it cheaper to fly the airplane to India and have it repaired by Indian mechanics than it is to keep the planes in the U.S. I'm sure there are plenty of qualified Indian mechanics but you can guarantee there is ZERO oversight from the local governments or the airlines. The airlines might think they're overseeing but they're most likely speaking to the well-educated proper English speaking owners while the actual work is being done many levels below.

Pull one of them off the job for a few months, offer him a bonus, and tell him to get writing.

Or hire someone with outside experience.

Honestly, if the war ever ends, we'll have an influx of trained mechanics looking for jobs, and maybe the problem will fix itself.

@The_IT_Crone: I once heard a nice story from James Randi. He took a job verifying the translation of instruction manuals being translated. He found a few glaring errors, and reported them. B/c the person who translated them originally was high up in the company, they refused to point out the errors for fear of insulting the translator. I also have to agree w/Godlyfrog, in that do you really want a non-tech person trying to explain a complex task?

@NeverLetMeDown: Good point, I agree with you.

Something doesnt sound right. Your telling me, no one has complained about this until now?

Manuals come in like 5 languages now a days. So i dont know WTF this article is trying to tell us.

Unfortunately, I can vouch for the truth of much of this from my time in the airline industry. It's a little overstated, but not by much.

Aircraft maintenance manuals are written in a standard kind of international English, called "Simplified Technical English" under ASD STE100 for these people. This is the standard for all maintenance manuals from Airbus and Boeing, for example.

Part of the issue here is that there is insufficient supervision on the shop floor and by the FAA. The FAA is desperately undermanned and underfunded for inspecting these overseas shops. Many are ver good at what they do. Others, well.....

@nakedscience: Harder than it first seems. You need someone who is both bilingual and technically competent enough to understand the manual. I would not trust a repair carried out courtesy of Babelfish.

On the other hand, I'd be worried about a non-technical person translating something they don't understand, as well.

How difficult would it be to create manuals in a few othr languages?

I'd happily pay less for less qualified mechanics. Considering the fact that we haven't had planes falling out of the air every day, I think it's a pretty safe bet and I'm willing to take it.

If one airline in particular were to hire only 100% certified mechanics to work on their planes, I would try to fly with them exclusively.

But seriously, it should be a federal requirement that all the mechanics be 100% certified and properly trained. Hundreds of people could die to save a few bucks.

I'm always suspicious of stories that include a lot of anonymous quotes from people who have a financial incentive to badmouth the work of others.