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So is this the United Airlines vs. The Government?
Never thought I'd side with United...
2 replies
So is this the United Airlines vs. The Government?
Never thought I'd side with United...
Would I be wrong in thinking that United is a government-supported Airline?
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@HungryTuna: Many airlines receive subsidies for serving underserved communities and for carrying mail.
@AmosChrysaor: United also received a bailout in 2001. How does that mean they are/were not supported by the government?
@AmosChrysaor: Oh Really, they have a huge contract with Mr. Government to ship soliders sailers and seamen overseas =)
Wow, this is a tough one. It's actually pretty surprising as an early-round matchup.
@HeartBurnKid, creepy morbid freak: It's not that early. This is the 11th out of 16 first-round matches. Considering that match 16 should be two companies seeded next to each other, it's not surprising that the 11th match isn't that lopsided.
If we assume that the suckiness of *nominated* companies follows a bell-shaped curve, and the contest only involves the 32 companies with the most nominations, then our entire field of finalists is drawn from the right side of the curve. Of these, perhaps half a dozen are far out on the tail of the curve and are super-sucky. The other couple dozen finalists are drawn more from the bulk of the bell, and are of comparable suckiness. In this model the first half dozen or so contests would be extremely lopsided, but then the matches would become more even. I'd expect matches 10-16 of the first round would not be blow-outs.
@GuinevereRucker: Yeah, that was a weird one. I was surprised that Apple made the cut but Microsoft didn't.
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GM, for sure. I don't see them going all the way, but GM wins this round handily.
I'm kinda torn in this \"Worst Company in America\" series. There's a big difference between crummy companies that are simply poorly run vs. companies that exploit workers, break contracts, and abuse people. I remember last year when people didn't like Toys-R-Us because it was dirty. OK, THEN DON'T GO THERE. Then you have a real evil company like Monsanto or Blackwater (Xe), who oddly enough never makes it on here. They would probably just win every single year.
Like, United isn't really that bad. There are an infinite amount of air carriers that you may use if you don't like United. Fly someone else. We would be dumb to use a business we hated in such a competitive marketplace, fortress hubs aside.
On the other hand, we American readers are going to be forced bedfellows with General Motors. If they were simply a poor company, that's their problem. Again, we would be dumb to do business with them for their mediocre cards. However, they currently provide too many jobs and the whole situation is one giant ball of systemtic risk similar to the financial industry problem. They have taken the problems from their poor market position and bad business practices and put them on us.
I vote GM. United can't possibly be evil here.
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@Blinky987: I logged in to post similar thoughts, but I couldn't have put it better than you just did.
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@Blinky987: Now that I think about it, I'm not sure how official these ratings actually are.. Thoughts?
He's saying that some of these companies are objectively much worse than the others. Since the title of the awards is \"Worst Company in America,\" not \"Worst Customer Service In America,\" the comparison to Blackwater isn't off-base.
In a fight for \"Worst Company in America,\" we have United and GM. Since United isn't taking money from the taxpayers (with no plans to pay it back), and didn't just get beaten over the head by the POTUS, it should be ridiculously obvious which of these is the \"worst\".
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@Blinky987: I think you may have missed the point; the people on this site aren't *consumers* of blackwater. \"Dirty\" toys-R-is would be a thousand times more relevant, because it is consumer-driven retail, that doesn't make what appear to be slight efforts to treat their consumers right.
The fact that you could choose an airline other than United is irrelevant. The fact that people do choose other airlines, and their reasons for it are what is important. Whether it is one or two high profile cases in which passengers were profiled, abused, or threatened and detained, those are what we are looking at. I'm voting for GM, but I think you've missed a large portion of the spirit of the bracket.
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This was a tough one... I've heard horrors stories about each. GM has had horrible problems keeping it's dealerships acting appropriately and maintaining a car that doesn't require at least one recall. United, on the other hand, has screwed up more people's flights than probably any other airline and kept people stranded in airports. Both companies are really good examples of piss poor management and lame customer service.
In the end I voted for GM simply because even after we bailed them out late last eyar they still failed to do anything meaningful enough so as to convince the government and public that it's a reliable business.
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In an effort to protect my (and my fellow taxpayers') investment, I'm voting for United on this one.
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@RandomHookup: They're hopefully going to kick the bucket anyway, and throwing billions more at them won't help except in the short term.
Protect my *future* tax dollars by letting GM die, please :D
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GM does good to their employees & good to their cars & good to their buyers.
.... well too good because they are in $$ trouble. Not the best managed company, but far from being \"worst\" or bad in any way.
UA - lets milk every cent from every passenger. ugh, bad. United Airlines is easily the worst of these 2.
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Not everyone flies, but pretty much all Americans drive cars. So we're all affected by General Motors and its policies.
If it weren't for GM, we'd be driving electric cars now, or cars that get 55+ miles per gallon. For 20 years they have shoved their over-priced fuel-hog road-hog SUVs down our throats, because they didn't want to bother with anything else. They made too much profit on SUVs and their over-priced luxury cars. Well I think America has finally spoken, we don't want SUVs. Give us cars that are economically and environmentally responsible, or we'll buy them somewhere else.
Will the last person to leave Detroit please turn out the lights?
@Harry Pothead: Yes, GM with their ever-dwindling market share dominates the market's policies and direction...
Demand is demand. Supply does not create demand. People bought SUVs because of tax breaks and because the people wanted them. Auto manufacturers pushed them because they're profitable. If you think the SUV was imposed upon America, I'm sure you're full of even more crazy conspiracy theories. Lucky for you (and unlucky for us normals), the internet is a perfect place for you.
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@Blinky987: I can agree with half your statement. We wanted it at about the same time that they made it, it was a perfect storm of consumerism for the SUV. Problem is they couldn't, wouldn't adapt when the waters changed. They didn't have any depth or agility so they were completely unable to make a fuel efficient car to save their life. Instead they have 5 companies making essentially the same car.
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@Harry Pothead: Your second sentence is not a proper conclusion to your first. I drive a German car. GM's antiquated views and policies have little to no effect on me. It would be pretty damn hard to argue that GM has some sort of peer-pressure like influence on European automakers.
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UA is a \"Worst Company\" contender in the sense that they ream their customers over. GM is a \"Worst Company\" contender in that it can't keep itself in business.
It's a hard call to make. I chose GM, because at least UA can keep itself in business (for now).
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I had to think this one over for a few moments, but went with GM for three reasons:
1. I think it is unAmerican for GM to have for decades, produced a product that hasn't measured up to foreign competition, but used a \"buy American\" campaign to shame Americans into buying its product anyway. Then there's their contribution to the virtual meltdown of the consumer credit industry, with their financing gimmicks designed to boost new car sales.
2. GM now thinks it is so important to America that American taxpayers should bail it out at all costs. (Note to GM: America is the land of opportunity; not the land of corporate handouts.)
3. While United will likely be in the running for WCIA next year, I'm not sure GM will still be around. This may be my only chance to vote for GM.
@razremytuxbuddy: Excellent points. Might I add that other American car companies are in the same dire straights but aren't panhandling to congress...or at least aren't begging for the same insane amount of money. (insane as in an amount of money that was mind bogglingly huge a year ago...tangentially, anyone remember when Enron was the hugest corporate meltdown ever? Those were good times...)
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I liked it better when I got to vote for fake companies. Can we bring those back?
GM hands down.
Let's see... one of these companies has stolen my tax money, as they have no plans to pay it back, and hasn't used it for anything at all worthwhile.
The other one loses some luggage and charges you for a service you *don't have to pay for if you simply choose not to fly with them*.
C'mon. Where's the *tough* choice, like AIG vs. Hitler?
@RvLeshrac: RvLeshrac has it right. That's exactly what I mean.
Some companies are simply poorly run. I am not forced to use them, and I choose not to. I'm not going to whine that United charges fees for services. If you don't like it, don't fly United. It's that easy.
On the other hand, I am going to be forced into subsidizing GM in some way as an American. Before this near collapse, I could just buy my Honda/Toyota (or even Mazda, of which Ford is a 33% owner) and be fine. GM is imposing itself upon me with its crummy cars and bloated lineup. Maybe they'll actually be able to cut those terrible lines in the face of \"OMG LAYOFFS! THINK OF THE PEOPLE!\" idiots (they are being told to cut every single profitable automobile iirc because they're not enviro-friendly), but that has yet to be seen. Anyway, I digress.
GM is forcing itself upon me. United isn't. I don't care that United wants to sell me a sandwich for $5. It probably costs $8 from a vendor in the terminal anyway, and I can simply choose not to buy it. People seem to lose touch with this fact.
@Blinky987: Calling GM's lineup bloated is one thing, and very accurate, but crummy is completely different. They sell cars that both top (CTS) and bottom (Aveo) their respective classes, with a number of vehicles covering the rest of range. Anyone looking at a new Camry (top selling car in the US) and not cross-shopping it with a new Malibu is only doing themself a disservice. Chrysler, on the other hand, has a crummy lineup.
@EndlessMike: I would agree with that, but also recognize that you're citing two vehicles across the entirety of GM.
Also, I love all these people talking about fees. What fees? Baggage? Is that it? You didn't get a meal in your last 3-hour flight? OH MY, IT'S A NIGHTMARE! I'm thinking most of these people don't even fly and are just parroting what they read. As someone who flies 40-60k miles a year, flying is an underwhelming experience unless on a UAE flight or other luxury airline, but it's certainly not awful. Eat before you get to the airport and stop whining. Bring a collapsable water bottle. Seriously.
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@Blinky987: I get what you're saying and I agree.
Then there's the interesting third category. You said, \"don't like it, don't fly United\". But, for example, you can't say that with most telecoms (local monopoly *cough* Comcast *cough*) or even the likes of Microsoft (functionally a monopoly).
Just throwing that out there. Still, these days I think even they'd rank a distant second to GM, AIG, et al.
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I dunno, I fly a lot with work, I fly united almost exclusively. Beyond the occasional maintenance delay I haven't had a problem.
GM on the other hand... Anybody want to buy a 2 year old cobalt that's falling apart?
I voted for GM because they supported the UAW.
As a consumer, I think I would have to go with the airline and their BS fees. GM is doing badly because they make lousy products, but they don't seem to be actively trying to screw people over.
@diasdiem: Unless you live in like Detroit with NWA or you're caught on a tarmac for 6 hours, how is an airline \"screwing people over?\"
@Blinky987: Fees for first checked bag, charging for water, fees for buying a ticket anywhere but at the ticket counter, lousy customer service, and all those other fun fees they added last summer when fuel was so damn expensive and will now never get rid of no matter how low fuel costs go because consumers are used to them now.
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I don't see how GM could be the worst company. They are simply struggling in the current economic climate because the bulk of their business came from trucks and SUVs which people just abruptly stopped buying. Sure, they lacked the foresight to see it coming and should have invested in small car or hybrid platforms (like Honda and Toyota did), but that doesn't make them a bad company.
United on the other hand, is making conscious decisions that screw their own customers by \"nickel and diming\", and then providing horrendous customer service.
@techstar25: I'm guessing you never saw the documentary \"Who Killed the Electric Car?\". GM has been sitting on an awesome electric battery for several years. Didn't see it coming? No, I don't think so.
@techstar25: I know; it's crazy! You're clearly forced to buy all those peanuts!
Also, can anybody list the \"nickel and diming\" services outside of baggage? Anybody? Come on! You all talk about it so much! It must be infinitely common on United!
I vote for GM. When they come to the podium to accept their trophy, the UAW should come up to the stage with them to accept the award.
@Hadoken3: I vote for GM. When they come to the podium to accept their trophy, the UAW should come up to the stage with them to accept the award.
Heh Heh... well said
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@Hadoken3: Agreed. UAW should receive an honorary award this year for their 'support' of the American worker. Wonder how many workers are being laid off because the car companies can't afford the ridiculous amount of money that goes to the corrupt unions.
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I've flown United quite a few times and never had any major problems. The fees suck, but they aren't the only airline doing it.
On the other hand, the last GM product I owned needed a major repair every 2000 miles. I'm having a hard time giving that company any sympathy.
Tough call here.. but I have to go with General Motors.
I vote GM. I choose not to do business with United, and they are easily avoidable. My tax dollars going to GM is being done without my consent.
I'm going with GM, only because I'm a 1k with United.... They're not so bad if you fly with them every week.
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i'm no fan of either, but I have personal experience with United sucking, so they get my vote.
UNITED all the way!
GM has never stranded me in an airport on a layover when they knew there'd be no way for me to get out.
GM has never 'pushed-off' from the gate when they knew that we'd be sitting on the tarmac for three or four hours with no food or water or working toilets.
Yeah, GM is struggling and perhaps even stupid. And I resent my tax dollars going to bail them out, but that's no different than all of the other places politicians are spending my tax dollars.
UNITED can be just plain evil to its customers, which is a hallmark of the Worst Company in America.
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United. But I'm biased due to the last time I flew them.
Lemon cars or lemon airplanes + service...
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I hate United Airlines. They take the fun out of flying and left me stranded overnight in Chicago last May after canceling my first flight and then never bothering to check if the plane was working during the night, because we had a dead battery in the morning that meant another long delay.
However, if United wants to fly to Washington to beg for money, they -probably- have a better chance at getting there without people getting upset over the fact they flew there. Since they're an airline and not a horribly run car company.
I voted United, but in my heart I think GM is going to the final four.
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I'm going with GM because I do know a guy who works for United Airlines that got royally screwed by the bankruptcy so now he has to wait to be able to retire or try to find another job.
I don't see how anyone could hate one airline more than another. They are all equally miserable. None of them have ever done something that could make me forget that I am spending hundreds of dollars and 5 or so hours dealing with BS for a flight that is only in the air about an hour and a half.
The only issues I've had with United have been delays due to weather, but my family has owned several shitty GM cars, so no contest.
I can't believe this is so close.
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Man, tough one. I'm going with GM because I used to work at the UAW and of all the Big 3, Generous Mothers was the worst. I once heard a law professor (who was no fan of Big Labor) refer to their approach to labor negotiations as \"infantile\". He was right, too.
I guess I am not as sophisticated as the bulk of readers here. (I only fly once or twice a year.) But I've enjoyed flying United (as much as coach can be enjoyed.)
I don't blame GM for needing $ now. Forecasting future economic conditions is akin to solving the riddles of alchemy. But seeing that they weren't producing a desirable product mix and then mimicking their top competitors should have been doable.
I fly almost every week. Almost every week my United flights have mechanical issues. EVERY time the customer service absolutely sucks and follows the company motto of lets screw as many people as we can. Oh, only United goes where I go to. GM cars are reliable and they do try to have good customer relations. Its United as worst - not even a contest!
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I rarely fly and I drive a VW Beetle. I vote to let them both bite the dust.
UGH!!! Why did it have to be United vs GM? I would have voted for United versus ANYBODY else! Even Bank of America!
There's always next year...
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I'm going to have to go with the Airline as they suck. GM is trying to stay afloat, with our help, but they have made some piss poor decisions . .
@noone1569: I already voted against GM by switching to another brand.
So I'm voting against United here because they ripped me off for ~65k FF miles with little to no warning. That will keep pissing me off for many years to come.