var json_comments = new Array("
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tmed
April 28, 2009 2:21 PM
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I've been having trouble sleeping lately dear, Ambien + Adultery = good night's sleep.

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almigi
April 28, 2009 2:22 PM
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I suppose if Ambien can make you sleep drive with no memory of the event afterwords (just listen to the disclaimer in the commercial) then I suppose this is possible.


Then again, it's also possible that he just cheated on his wife and is looking for an excuse to not get in trouble, \"Really honey, I don't even know her, it was the Ambien.\"

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JPropaganda
April 28, 2009 3:35 PM
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@almigi: A friend of mine gave me a call one night to go out drinking. I thought he was hammered when we met up, but his girlfriend called an hour later - apparently he'd taken an Ambien earlier. Didn't remember a thing about going out to the bars...

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bornonbord
April 28, 2009 2:23 PM
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How easy is it to get? This could become a hit in night clubs.

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2 replies
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Tiber
April 28, 2009 4:05 PM
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@bornonbord: Yeah, I was thinking that too. This could become the next roofie.

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Keavy_Rain
April 28, 2009 4:50 PM
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@Tiber: I'm waiting for the lawsuit that emerges from an Ambien user who, unknowingly, becomes an Internet porn sensation.

\"I contracted numerous STD's, embarrassed my family, and blew $2.5 million by investing in Quixtar.\"

Betcha thought I was gonna do a fellatio joke there at the end, huh? Nah, Keavy's too classy for that.

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Anonymous
April 28, 2009 2:27 PM
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I can't she recommends not confessing to his soon-to-be ex-wife. keeping secrets between spouses is probably one of the worst things I can think of doing. if you can't confide and be completely honest with the one who is supposed to be closest to you, who can you turn to?

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savdavid
April 28, 2009 2:29 PM
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LOL!

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1 replies
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howie_in_az
April 28, 2009 5:51 PM
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@savdavid: That's really the only post necessary for this story.

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hellinmyeyes
April 28, 2009 2:30 PM
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A friend of mine Facebooks under the influence of Ambien, and it's REALLY disturbing the kinds of things she says when she's on there. The whole story sounds ridiculous, but I suspect it's got a lot of truth to it. Ambien really knocks your ass out. Heh, \"errands\"... I like that one.

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Darrone
April 28, 2009 2:32 PM
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** Side effects include: Hoggin', Plowing Uggo's, dry mouth, and an intense burning sensation during urination.

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missy070203
April 28, 2009 2:33 PM
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hahahahaha that might be the best thing ever for all those guys on maury
now they can say im not the father i dont remember sleeping with her...
or it cant be considered cheating beacuse as far as im concerned it never happened

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lpranal
April 28, 2009 2:34 PM
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It's called a changeover. The movie goes on and nobody in the audience has any idea.

I was only on Ambien once, and I had a much more boring experience.

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Admiral_John
April 28, 2009 2:37 PM
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I call total, utter, unadulterated shenanigans on this one.

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7 replies
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Darkest Daze
May 2, 2009 5:33 AM
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@wchamilton: Ok.....I'll get my broom.

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chiggr
April 29, 2009 4:22 AM
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@wchamilton: I can't comment on the sex part, but I have first hand knowledge of the sleep driving. Seemed like a vivid dream to me, I had to get my truck to the car wash. When I awoke the next morning, my truck was gone. I then knew the dream wasn't a dream, but real. I had to walk back to the car wash and retrieve my truck. Luckily it was only a 1/2 mile away.

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bibliophibian
April 28, 2009 5:21 PM
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@wchamilton: Couple of years ago, I took down all the Christmas decorations, stored the lights, and took the artificial Christmas tree down and put it away - along with taking about 50 photos of my cat climbing the tree as I was dismantling it - under the influence of Ambien.

I went into the living room the next morning, noticed the decorations and tree missing, and freaked out, thinking that someone must have broken into the house - and since they'd only taken the Christmas stuff and not the electronics, they were obviously a twisted psychopath and were waiting to jump out of a closet and torture me to death in some bizarre Santa-related ritual. (I read too many books, yeah.)

I was actually *in the process* of dialing 911 when I noticed the scratches all over my hands and arms and started to put 2+2 together. The pictures in the camera confirmed that yes, it was me. (I had managed to get various body parts into some of the pictures - hands, feet, knees, hair..)

To manage to dismantle all the Christmas decorations AND put them away properly without breaking any, I had to have been functioning well, in terms of physical coordination and decision making. (The ornaments were all in their proper boxes, not in, say, the freezer or the bathtub.) Even after studying the photos, which I thought would kickstart my memory, I had no recollection of any of it.

SO, based on my personal experience as well as the multiple published and thoroughly documented reports of exactly this sort of thing happening, I don't think there's any reason to suspect shenanigans. (If the guy said he had been \"sleep-scoring\" every weekend for a year, then yes, shenanigans.)

I ALSO don't think Ambien should be taken off the market, as many do. Black-box it so that there can be no confusion about the possibility of this effect, and let people make their own decisions. It's fairly easy to minimize the risks of the sleep-living (only take it after you're already IN bed, give someone else your keys, etc), and Ambien works better than any other sleeping aid I've ever used, and leaves no residual sleepiness the next day.

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Hil-fish
April 28, 2009 5:50 PM
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@bibliophibian: I don't think we who call shenanigans on this one are saying that it couldn't have happened (having seen my husband on Ambien, I think anything is possible), but that it may not have as this guy described it. There are a lot of people out there who write to advice columnists and make up wild things in order to get the thrill of seeing their letters in print. This letter struck me as fishy when I read it; it felt like he was testing out an excuse to see if it would fly.

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korybing
April 28, 2009 3:36 PM
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@wchamilton: I don't know, the side effects of Ambien include weird things like \"sleep driving\" and short-term amnesia, so I'm not sure if this story is total bullcrap. Maybe a little bullcrap, but stranger things have happened.

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Hil-fish
April 28, 2009 3:05 PM
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@wchamilton: I don't know about that \"unadulterated\" part....I mean, he did in fact commit adultery.

But I'm with you on the shenanigans.

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Coles_Law
April 28, 2009 2:48 PM
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@wchamilton: Good lord man, do you realize what you've done?!

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TheKeg
April 28, 2009 2:38 PM
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Ambien is some scary stuff. I had a friend who was on it and she'd do all sorts of things and not remember any of it. She'd get up in the middle of the night and do some of her projects and homework and wake up the next day and it would be done or not at the point she remembered stopping the day before. That's just the mundane stuff. She had a few sex-capades while on it and remembered none of it.

Sounds like the next insanity plea. \"But your honor, I swear I remember none of it. Last thing I remember is taking my ambien and going to bed!\"

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sockrockinbeats
April 28, 2009 5:02 PM
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@TheKeg: i've been on sonata, which is similar to ambien, and it really does make you do insane stuff.


i woke up one morning and found i had cut up a hello kitty bath towel and left the scissors and towel on my floor. i'd get the munchies too, i gained a ton of weight on sonata because i'd be up in the middle of the night eating like crazy. i'd eat gross stuff too, i had an entire box of weight watchers candy bar things once. i tried eating one while awake and it was so disgusting...but while drugged up on sonata, they were great!


i also had hallucinations. i remember watching the shadows on my ceiling and feeling like i was talking to god, and watching static on TV and seeing the care bears.


i did sleep pretty well, though.

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TheKeg
April 29, 2009 1:23 PM
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@sockrockinbeats: Holy crap, with legal drugs like these, who needs the illegal ones?

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RandomHookup
April 28, 2009 4:21 PM
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@TheKeg: What America really wants to know -- is she hot, available and still taking Ambien?

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TheKeg
April 29, 2009 1:21 PM
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@RandomHookup: LOL. Ummm...available and still taking Ambien, but 6-7 on scale of 10. That does it for some. \"Eager beats beautiful\", as some say.

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AbsurdHero
April 28, 2009 3:40 PM
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@TheKeg: That sounds... dare I say.. convenient? I'd like to wake up with all my homework and projects done.

On the other hand, I think I'd prefer to avoid the somnambulant sex. That sounds like all risk, no reward.

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h3llc4t, breaker of office dress codes
April 28, 2009 3:19 PM
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@TheKeg: I used to order and eat a lot of takeout baked potatoes when I was on Ambien. I'd wake up with shredded cheese on my pillow.

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chatterboxwriting
April 28, 2009 2:58 PM
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@TheKeg: Someone's DUI conviction was overturned because the woman had been taking Ambien.

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korybing
April 28, 2009 3:37 PM
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@chatterboxwriting: How is driving under the influence of Ambien NOT a DUI? That seems just as dangerous as any other sort of drug, regardless if you remember what you did or not, it's still putting innocents in danger.

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johnva
April 28, 2009 3:53 PM
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@korybing: So you think that people should be punished for something that they didn't consciously decide to do? Wow.

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korybing
April 29, 2009 2:26 PM
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@johnva: Drunk people don't consciously decide to get into accidents when they get in a car either. I know it's different than being drunk since you have no memory of the event, but at the same time it's still incredibly dangerous for all involved. What if you were hit by someone sleepdriving while on Ambien? I'd have a hard time thinking \"Oh, well they didn't consciously decide to put me in the hospital, it's not their fault.\"

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arl84
April 29, 2009 4:03 AM
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@johnva: I think people who are driving while on ambien should absolutely be brought up on charges. I think DUI is a little harsh, but bottom line, someone driving on ambien is endangering lives and a stop needs to be put to that. Either make the big pharma stop producing it, or make the patients more aware of the side effects so that they will not put themselves in positions where they can sleep drive (have friends take keys, lock doors, whatever you need to do)but they shouldn't just be throwing these cases out.

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korybing
April 29, 2009 2:36 PM
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@arl84: I'll agree with that. The person taking the drug might not be responsible for their actions while under the influence, but they need to be told of the possible side-effects before taking the drug so they can do all they can to prevent some horrible accident from happening. They don't want to be the cause of an accident as much as other people don't want them to cause an accident.

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johnva
April 29, 2009 1:34 PM
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@arl84: I fundamentally disagree that any sort of criminal charge is the proper way to address this. I can definitely see going after the company that makes it, if they have failed to adequately warn people about how to take precautions. But the mere fact that someone is doing something potentially dangerous does not warrant charges. Intent/negligence also has to be involved.

And like I said above, it's not clear that people driving on Ambien are actually dangerous drivers. They might be perfectly reasonable drivers, and just not remember it, thanks to the drug-induced amnesia (kind of like you might forget a dream). The mere fact that they are on a drug doesn't necessarily mean they are dangerous drivers.

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RandomZero
April 30, 2009 12:59 PM
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@johnva: You argue that ambien users should not face criminal charges because there was no intent to be irresponsible. When's the last time you heard someone say \"Let's head to the bar - I wanna go drunk driving!\"? Nobody intends to do the irresponsible thing when they set out; they make the decision while under the influence. I can see a strong argument for presenting it as a mitigating circumstance, but \"I didn't intend to drive when I took this substance!\" is at least as solid a defense for alcohol as for Ambien.


I do, however, have sympathy for people who were just doing what the medical professionals said to do - this is a purely emotional judgement with no basis in logic, but I wouldn't like to see them charged either. That said, they DO need to be yanked off the road ASAP. Sleepwalking, even while coherent, completely screws up your reaction times and abstract thought in my experience.

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korybing
April 29, 2009 2:39 PM
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@johnva: I'll agree that maybe criminal charges aren't the way to go in a case like this, but something needs to be done to help keep people under the influence of medications like these from putting themselves and others in potentially life-threatening situations. Just saying \"whups, I was on medication at the time so all my actions are absolved\" (not implying that you're specifically saying that, but I'm getting that vibe from some of the comments in this thread) seems a little irresponsible to me.

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bluewyvern
April 28, 2009 3:46 PM
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@korybing: Because you took the Ambien intending to go to sleep, not get in a car -- because you were in fact asleep, or in some state of impaired consciousness, when you decided to get out of bed and get in your car. It's a little different from being buzzed and thinking to yourself, \"yeah, I'm good.\"

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Corporate_guy
April 28, 2009 3:59 PM
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@bluewyvern: So if you are black out drunk while on alcohol you shouldn't be charged? Although it should be the case, I don't believe any court allows you to get off with that defense. Sometimes people get drunk, hurt someone with their car and wake up with no knowledge of it. They are charged as evil criminals and can go to jail without having any knowledge of the crime. Ambien users should not get special treatment. Either driving drunk is a crime, or it's not.

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Trai_Dep
April 28, 2009 4:34 PM
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@Corporate_guy: An equivalent to the Ambien situation is that your mind is carjacked. The horror of when it goes wrong is the victim finding out later that they did a variety of acts without being aware of them, without making a conscious choice.
Surely you see the difference, right?

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killianzim
April 28, 2009 5:03 PM
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There needs to be user responsibility. I was on this stuff a few weeks ago and gave my girlfriend my keys BEFORE I took my pills. And guess what, I didn't drive anywhere.

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el bryanto
April 28, 2009 4:32 PM
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@Corporate_guy: LOL your posts are funny. Not sure if you're just trying so hard to be \"corporate\" and \"lawyer-like\" or if it's just plain idiocy.

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Anonymous
April 28, 2009 4:22 PM
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@Corporate_guy: When you drink heavily, you are intentionally taking an action that you know could lead to blacking out, so the courts consider you responsible for anything you do while blacked out drunk. When you take an Ambien, there is no intent to get hammered.

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johnva
April 28, 2009 4:04 PM
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@Corporate_guy: A lot of civil liberties get turned on their head when it comes to crimes that make people emotional, like drunk driving and child molestation. Doesn't mean it's right.

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EinhornIsAMan!
April 28, 2009 4:18 PM
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@johnva: @Corporate_guy: I'm trying to make sense of your comments? Are you insinuating that laws and punishments against drunk driving are misplaced?

and johnva, what is this, \"if you are black out drunk while on alcohol you shouldn't be charged? Although it should be the case, I don't believe any court allows you to get off with that defense.\"

Are you suggesting that black out drunkenness is an excuse for a behavior, including getting behind the wheel of a car and killing somebody? What the hell is wrong with you?

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mindshadow
April 28, 2009 5:36 PM
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@TheDayIsMine: Actually I think johnva is trying to say that DUI and \"OMG THINK OF THE CHILDREN\" get used as excuses for violating civil liberties. No, you shouldn't drive if you've had alcohol. Obviously being a pedophile is bad. But these things get abused. A cop can pull you over and really violate your civil liberties just because \"he saw you swerve and thought you were drunk\" which could be either that your tire touched the line or the cop could have even made the entire thing up. And if you say the cop is ridiculous and refuse to take the field sobriety test in some states you're automatically charged with DUI.

As far as the child molestation thing getting out of hand, well, we have parents that will call the cops for you helping their child if they fall or lost their parents, or a 17 year old can become a registered sex offender, in effect having his whole life ruined, for having sex with his 16 year old girl.

I think these are our societies best example of something well-intended getting way out of hand.

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johnva
April 28, 2009 5:43 PM
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@mindshadow: Exactly. Like I said, emotional reasoning tends to lead to distorted decision-making. When emotional decision-making enters the political and legal system, you end up getting weird situations where society uses a different standard for judging guilt vs. innocence than it normally would. People hate child molesters, so they tend to be appalled by someone who is accused of it even before they are proven guilty. People hate drunk drivers, so they support laws that criminalize behavior that isn't really the same as your stereotypical \"drunk driving\" (which no one supports). The law needs to strive to eliminate this type of reasoning whenever possible, because it only leads to bad decisions.

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johnva
April 28, 2009 5:04 PM
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@TheDayIsMine: I think a lot of laws re: drunk driving are misplaced, yes. The main problem is that there is such a focus on \"pre-crime\": trying to focus on preventing people from doing something dangerous. You can get arrested for DUI even if you're not driving, for example, if you just are near your car with your car keys while drunk. You can get arrested for an \"open container\" violation if someone has an open container of alcohol in your car even if you the driver didn't touch it. You can get arrested even if your BAC was under the legal limit if a cop decides you can't prove you weren't too impaired to drive. I think that's wrong, because it throws out the idea of innocent until proven guilty and intent to commit a crime in favor of public safety arguments. I'd prefer that we just punish people who actually drive drunk more harshly and stop focusing on \"crimes\" that are related but not the same as driving drunk. I was merely commenting on the undeniable hysteria surrounding drunk driving.

That being said, the effects of alcohol - including possible blackouts - are well-established as a common piece of cultural knowledge. Most people realize that part of being responsible in using alcohol is understanding your limits and not putting yourself in a situation where you might do something bad while blacked out. Ambien, on the other hand, is nothing like alcohol, culturally. People take it without necessarily expecting these possible side effects: a medicine prescribed by a doctor simply has a way different cultural connotation than a recreational substance that is used primarily FOR its intoxicating effects. Thus, I think the responsibility is different in this situation. People who take Ambien aren't doing it to get trashed...they're doing it to sleep. So they aren't doing something irresponsible by intent, and shouldn't be punished as if they were.

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EinhornIsAMan!
April 29, 2009 12:37 AM
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@johnva: \"I think a lot of laws re: drunk driving are misplaced, yes. The main problem is that there is such a focus on \"pre-crime\": trying to focus on preventing people from doing something dangerous. You can get arrested for DUI even if you're not driving, for example, if you just are near your car with your car keys while drunk. You can get arrested for an \"open container\" violation if someone has an open container of alcohol in your car even if you the driver didn't touch it. You can get arrested even if your BAC was under the legal limit if a cop decides you can't prove you weren't too impaired to drive. I think that's wrong, because it throws out the idea of innocent until proven guilty and intent to commit a crime in favor of public safety arguments. I'd prefer that we just punish people who actually drive drunk more harshly and stop focusing on \"crimes\" that are related but not the same as driving drunk. I was merely commenting on the undeniable hysteria surrounding drunk driving.\"

No need to be patronizing, I'm going to assume that's clarification and not backpedaling. Your argument makes sense, but you did not mention any of that earlier, hence the confusion

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redkamel
April 28, 2009 4:32 PM
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@TheDayIsMine: he/shes suggesting the lack of intent/concsioussness argument for not making ambien count as a DUI is illogical since you also lack intent/conciousness when black out drunk. Implying that driving under Ambien should equal a DUI, which I agree with. I think you cant drive under vicodin either.

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johnva
April 28, 2009 5:08 PM
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@redkamel: I totally disagree that Ambien should equal a DUI IF the person had no intent to do something irresponsible before taking it.

Also, I think you're misconstruing the possible effects. Not remembering the driver afterwards is not necessarily the same thing as it making you a bad driver that is a danger to others. You might be confused because of the comparison with alcohol: alcohol can make you both a dangerous driver AND cause amnesia/blackouts. Ambien may only cause the amnesia, and if that's the case I don't think you should get a DUI. DUI should be reserved for substances that actually make you a dangerous driver.

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soundreasoning
April 28, 2009 4:31 PM
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@TheDayIsMine: Taking a sleep medication and having that affect your judgment is much different from engaging a recreational/addiction feeding activity like drinking and then driving. The motivations are different, and one is considered reprehensible, one is considered defensible. I think that while on a purely theoretical level and disregarding those motivational factors, yes black drunk driving and blackout ambien driving are analogous, but you can't ignore the legitimacy of the motivation for ambien.

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qwickone
April 28, 2009 4:29 PM
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@TheDayIsMine: I get where he's coming from, not saying it's right, but a good point. If you're black out drugged up, how is that different from being black out drunk in terms of being responsible for your actions? Would it make a difference if you were black out drugged up from say heroin instead of Ambien?

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Coelacanth
April 28, 2009 3:41 PM
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@korybing: Probably the action lacked \"intent.\"

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pecan 3.14159265
April 28, 2009 2:39 PM
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So will the instructions be revised to warn people to take an Ambien, then padlock all doors and windows and slide the keys under the door so someone sleeping in the next room can unlock them in the morning?

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Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!)
April 28, 2009 4:35 PM
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@pecan 3.14159265: In an ideal world, we'd all not only \"not engage in [various activities] until we know how Ambien/other drug affected us\" but we'd all have someone to keep an eye on us the first couple times we took it.

I took Ambien in law school a few times when I had terrible insomnia. I went to sleep for six to eight hours and woke up refreshed and without that awful hangover-head feeling some sleep meds give you. But I also had a husband to keep an eye on me the first couple times until I knew I didn't get the side effects.

(I absolutely hate taking sleep meds unless there's someone there because I always become deeply convinced I shall stop breathing and die and sleep through the entire experience. Sleep walking/sex/driving/cooking would just be bonus horror for me.)

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bibliophibian
April 28, 2009 5:42 PM
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@Eyebrows McGee (on Twitter: LPetelle): But I also had a husband to keep an eye on me the first couple times until I knew I didn't get the side effects.

A note of caution to anyone reading this (since you've already explained your preferences):

The side effect of sleep-living is not a yes/no thing. It's not like \"penicillin gives me hives\" or \"ibuprofen makes my hands swell up.\" I had been taking Ambien for about three months without any problems at all, and then I had a major sleep-living episode (Christmas tree story, above).

I continued to take it as needed for about the next two years*, until it stopped working, and perhaps one out of every 15-20 times I'd take it, I'd wake up and find the dishes done and my books alphabetized... or three empty ice cream containers... whatever. I was never able to figure out what, if anything, contributed to those episodes - they seemed completely random as far as I could tell.

So the process of seeing how you react to it is important, but it's not a final answer. The way a person reacts to it the first couple of times is not necessarily an indicator that they will *never* have the sleep-living. In an ideal situation, yeah, if you have to take it, you should have someone around who'll wake up if you get out of bed. That's not always possible, but for those who do *need* to take Ambien and don't have someone to act as a \"minder,\" there are lots of fairly simple precautions that can be taken. As with ANY medicine, there's always a possibility of an adverse and completely unexpected reaction, but it can be managed down to an acceptable risk without much difficulty.

*Hoping to stave off the usual flames: I have really fucked up sleep, neurologically (not situationally - stress, diet, surroundings, etc). I spend about 75-80% of the night in REM sleep, instead of the standard 20-30%. Generally no sleeping medication is recommended for more than a week or two at a time, but that's assuming typical insomnia, not a neurological setting. The dreams are awesome, but it really wracks my health to not get the right *kind* of sleep.

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Michael Bauser
April 28, 2009 3:29 PM
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@pecan 3.14159265: So you're saying that taking Ambien is a lot like being a werewolf?

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pecan 3.14159265
April 28, 2009 3:38 PM
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@Michael Bauser: Yes, actually. I think if you cook a whole meal while you're in an Ambien-induced haze, you're putting people at risk. If you drive in your Ambien-induced haze, that's even worse.

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MisteriosaNYC
April 28, 2009 2:42 PM
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i dont know if anyone mentioned this, but in the most recent commericals for ambien, the side effects section now says something like:


\"you may become more outgoing and aggressive\".


that line caught my attention when i heard it. seems like the pharmaceutical co may have been getting word of simliar events.

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AbsurdHero
April 28, 2009 3:45 PM
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@MisteriosaNYC: \"If you are female, men will begin to think of you as a 'fun girl' and make excuses to go on camping trips with you. If you are male, you may expect restraining orders.\"

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Trai_Dep
April 28, 2009 4:37 PM
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@AbsurdHero: \"If you're a male living on the single-sex floor of your dorm, Ambien may cause some awkwardness during the next morning's showers. And for some of you, some deep soul-searching.\"

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PersonalBest
April 28, 2009 2:43 PM
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Here's my advice:

If you don't know if you should tell your wife or not, don't ask these kinds of questions (and spill all the details) on the interwebs.

That'll be $400, but I have to warn you that I'm not licensed.

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econobiker
April 28, 2009 2:51 PM
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@PersonalBest: Search around as there was some website that will issue you a driving or doctor's license for $49.95...

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PersonalBest
April 28, 2009 3:00 PM
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@econobiker: Thanks, but I think I'll be making my own license at home, since it'll be cheaper and will taste better.

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lalaland13
April 28, 2009 2:52 PM
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Just take some Zoloft to decrease your sex drive and boom, you'll be faithful without any problems.

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Andrew Dorsett
April 28, 2009 3:08 PM
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@lalaland13: Haha, it's sad how funny I find that.

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Silversmok3
April 28, 2009 2:58 PM
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Quoted from article:


...I talked to my doctor Monday, and he told me Ambien can cause amnesia and that some people have reported walking, driving, and cooking in their sleep.


If its verified fact people can drive and/or cook meals while 'sleeping' due to Ambien, it can be argued that you can have sex under the influence.


One serious problem though-for the one guy who fesses up, how many thousands of husbands or wives simply quit the prescription and just kept quiet about it? I know if I slept with a random chick because of a drug I woudnt be in a hurry to admit that in a public survey or corporate study-or to my doctor.

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Dawnrazor
April 28, 2009 4:52 PM
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@Silversmok3: As as practicing Psychiatrist I can confirm that Ambien has numerous such side effects.


I was an expert witness last year on a DUI case involving Ambien intoxication. The defendant had been taking Ambien (standard 10mg dose) for one week and had no problems until the eighth day. On the eighth day he took his dose as usual at 11:00 pm and had no recollection of any events until about 4:30 am the next day when he was being booked into jail. Apparently he got out of bed, put on a suit that he would normally wear to work, then got into his car and started driving. He was travelling in the opposite direction to any of his normal destinations (work, shopping, family/friends' residences) and was stopped when a trooper noticed him crossing the center line a few times. He was reportedly cooperative with field sobriety tests, blew a zero on breathalizer, but was cited for DUI on the basis of his erratic driving and \"bizarre behavior\". He continued to cooperate and submitted to lab tests, which were negative for all of the various drugs screened.


My opinion was that it was INVOLUNTARY intoxication due to the Ambien use (as directed) that directly led to these events, given the well-known potential side-effects of this drug combined with the lack of any other drugs in his system, lack of any substance abuse history, and lack of any psychiatric history. This gentleman is a successful mechanical engineer with a \"squeaky clean\" background. On this basis, his case was fortunately dismissed (actually surprised his lawyer, who told me he would have been satisfied with a deferred sentence in this case because arguing \"involuntary intoxication\" was rarely effective in cases like this; what \"saved\" him was his clean background, good standing in the community, and lack of any other identifiable factors the night the incident occurred).


Ambien-CR is now favored over \"regular\" Ambien due to lower risk of these types of side-effects for most individuals; the only disadvantage is cost.


My advice to any of you taking \"regular\" Ambien is to be vigilant about noticing any emerging side-effects, especially if they result in you feeling disconnected from reality or your surroundings, you begin to experience distorted perceptions of time, other people tell you you were sleepwalking, or you feel you have memory lapses for specific periods of time. If any of these symptoms occur, please discuss with whoever prescribed for you. If you take Ambien longer than four weeks and still have problems with insomnia, you should also contact your provider; chronic insomnia is almost always a SYMPTOM of some underlying medical or psychiatric illness/disorder rather than a disorder in and of itself (primary insomnia is quite rare, and some of the illnesses that have insomnia as a symptom can be dangerous or even life-threatening in some cases if not adequately identified and treated).

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johnva
April 28, 2009 5:29 PM
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@Dawnrazor: Thanks for the expert input; very interesting post.

On this basis, his case was fortunately dismissed (actually surprised his lawyer, who told me he would have been satisfied with a deferred sentence in this case because arguing \"involuntary intoxication\" was rarely effective in cases like this; what \"saved\" him was his clean background, good standing in the community, and lack of any other identifiable factors the night the incident occurred).

This really frightens me and actually kind of pisses me off. What kind of justice system do we have where the facts in a given case are judged differently based on \"what kind of person\" the defendant is? That seems so subjective and open to bias that it's ridiculous.

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Dawnrazor
April 28, 2009 6:10 PM
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@johnva: \"What kind of justice system do we have where the facts in a given case are judged differently based on \"what kind of person\" the defendant is? That seems so subjective and open to bias that it's ridiculous.\"


He, he-welcome to the American legal system! I completely understand your angst, and this is exactly why I don't do much legal work anymore. Being an expert witness can be quite lucrative (and it had better be given some of the cross-examinations I've been subjected to!) and professionally stimulating, but it definitely can make one very cynical about the whole process. EVERY case is highly subjective, and yes, a clean-cut person employed as a professional will definitely have an easier time than the average blue-collar \"joe sixpack\" type; it's NOT fair and definitely does not represent \"justice\", but based upon my experiences (have been a witness a total of nine times) it is the current reality. I have no regrets about any of the cases I've been involved in, and the extra income and professional growth have been great, but nothing makes me happier or leaves me more professionally fulfilled than good old fashioned face-to-face patient contact, so this is going to be the focus of my activity for the forseeable future (unless I'm offered a \"slam dunk\" case that won't require a lot of work or cognitive dissonance to achieve a favorable verdict).


One piece of advice if you ever do find yourself in trouble is to choose your lawyer VERY carefully. This probably seems obvious, but I would submit that an important criteria would be the reputation of the lawyer among his/her colleagues at the courthouse. I have been on a couple of cases where both the judge and the assistant DA were snickering about the defense counsel (off the record of course); it was obvious neither had much personal or professional respect for the attorney, and not surprisingly, the outcome of the trial was not in the defendant's favor in either case.

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johnva
April 28, 2009 4:00 PM
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@Silversmok3: It's indeed pretty hard to study things that are self-reported and include behaviors that people are commonly ashamed of. Remember the study that supposedly found a link between breast cancer and abortion (a study that is now a staple of far-right propaganda)? It turns out that the reason they got those results was that they were relying on the women in the study's self-reporting about whether or not they had had an abortion. The women who had breast cancer were more likely to report their past abortions to the researchers truthfully, likely because they were looking for an \"explanation\" for their cancer. The women who didn't have a cancer were more likely to lie and report never having had an abortion. The effect observed went away when reliable health records were used instead of self-reporting.

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Porcelina
April 28, 2009 2:59 PM
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I had sex on Ambien once and woke up half way through it not knowing was was happening, but I was on top, so I was it wasn't rape or anything- I was lucid.

It's too scary.

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dvdchris
April 28, 2009 4:23 PM
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@Porcelina: \"but I was on top, so I was it wasn't rape or anything\"
That clears that up.

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docrice
April 28, 2009 3:24 PM
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@Porcelina: How do you know you weren't raping?


Ambien-fueled rape - just one more side effect...

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BigPapaCherry
April 28, 2009 4:02 PM
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@docrice: I believe the point was that since SHE was on top, she was not being raped, so she had to have been consensual, at least from her side.

Not gonna try and wrestle with the question of a male getting raped.

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econobiker
April 28, 2009 4:56 PM
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@BigPapaCherry's life is a Cabaret: Female rape on male happens but it is usually related to a 30 to 40 something female high school teacher and a 15 to 17 year old male student.


Which is a completely different topic there again:


[badbadteacher.com]


(note-website is creepy but safe for work)

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mysterylodge
April 28, 2009 9:00 PM
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@econobiker: Just as an FYI: Your link seemed to make Avast freak out - claimed the site was trying to infect me with malware.

Then again, my copy of Avast may have gotten into my Ambien supply, so who knows?

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fatcop
April 28, 2009 9:17 PM
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@MrEvil: Only in those that are properly run. ;-P

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MrEvil
April 28, 2009 4:05 PM
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@MrEvil: Forgot to mention that was a JOKE.

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BigPapaCherry
April 28, 2009 4:13 PM
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@MrEvil: Ah, my mistake. I gotta get better with that internet sarcasm.

Back to lurking for me...

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ForrestWhitakersLazyEye
April 28, 2009 3:08 PM
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The things I've done on Ambien...oh laawwwd.

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jackal676
April 28, 2009 4:51 PM
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@ForrestWhitakersLazyEye: A former coworker of mine told me she quit taking ambien after sleep-bathing. Her husband told her about it the next morning (he thought it was weird that she got up to take a bath in the middle of the night, but at the time he didn't realize that she was still asleep), and she was really freaked out. You'd think the water would almost certainly wake you up. If she could do that and have no recollection of it, I don't think anything is out of the realm of possibility concerning that drug.

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Sparkstalker
April 28, 2009 8:30 PM
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@JoshReflek: I can't believe it isn't a more popular streetcorner drug....

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LegoMan322
April 28, 2009 3:13 PM
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What a wuss this guy is. Just admit you got drunk/stoned and had sex with someone else.

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chrisjames
April 28, 2009 3:13 PM
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Common side effects may include headache, somnolence, dizziness, and flawless scapegoat!

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Julia789
April 28, 2009 3:33 PM
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@chrisjames: Next thing the \"Craig's List Killer\" will say \"Gee sorry, I was taking this sleeping pill and I have no memory of it!\"

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nakedscience
April 28, 2009 3:22 PM
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When you take Ambien, YOU GO TO BED. Don't stay up. Jesus. Everyone who does stupid stuff on Ambien likely didn't go to bed, but stayed up. And then did something stupid.

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fratgirl
April 28, 2009 5:51 PM
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@nakedscience: Or you could just not know what you're talking about.

My boyfriend took it, went to bed, and woke up later being taken to the hospital by police. He had gotten into his truck, drove it about a half mile in really terrible weather conditions, crashed it into a snow bank, and the broke into someone's house shouting nonsense.

He doesn't take Ambien anymore.

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johnva
April 28, 2009 3:56 PM
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@nakedscience: I assume from your certainty that you have some scientific evidence of this?

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LegoMan322
April 28, 2009 4:04 PM
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@johnva: @bluewyvern: @RecordStoreToughGuy: I think The Consumerist should be renamed The Conspiracist. I would really like to know what batch of pills made the guy not remember having sex with another person.

I would like some of them myself...so maybe I could cry to my wife \" It wasn't me....the pills made me do it! I didn't want to have sex with someone else! Why would someone want to do that!\"

Also...Recordstoretoughguy...everything seems possible.

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headcase
April 29, 2009 7:00 PM
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@LegoMan322: Not to mention the obvious problem. Sleepfucking I can understand, but you really have to be non-choosy to accept someone who is sleephitting-on-you.

I mean, I guess it's possible he was coherent, just seems to be a stretch.

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johnva
April 28, 2009 4:11 PM
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@LegoMan322: Asking for evidence is not being a conspiracy theorist. This kind of thing appears to be a known side effect of this drug. And as I mentioned above, it's quite hard to study this kind of behavior (for exactly the reason we're seeing in these comments - people are skeptical instantly of this sort of reported effect, even without evidence).

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LegoMan322
April 28, 2009 4:27 PM
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@johnva: I agree about how it's hard to study this. From my own experience they are called \"black outs\". They happened/happen when I drink too much or put other stuff in my body, or all the above at the same time. The guy could have been drinking while he took one ( I have done that often with other pills) been at a bar, then blacked out.

I think that is much more reasonable than \" I took a pill and dont remember picking up a stranger and having sex (who knows what else) with them. Everyone is different, but that reaction to the pill is way off the charts.

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chrisjames
April 28, 2009 5:17 PM
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@LegoMan322:

The facts are addressed on the Ambien website.

AMBIEN CR Side Effects:

\"Memory problems

Sleep medicines may cause a special type of memory loss or 'amnesia.' When this occurs, a person may not remember what has happened for several hours after taking the medicine. This is usually not a problem since most people fall asleep after taking the medicine.

...

Changes in behavior and thinking

...

* More outgoing or aggressive behavior than normal
* Confusion
* Strange behavior

...

Pregnancy!\"

Okay, the last one is just a heading about the effects on pregnant women, but pregnancy could be considered a literal side effect, as a stretch.

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theblackdog
April 28, 2009 5:32 PM
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@chrisjames: That would be funny if pregnancy was listed as a side effect if Ambien.

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bluewyvern
April 28, 2009 3:50 PM
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@nakedscience: I think they do go to bed, and then wake up and do this stuff. Much scarier.

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RecordStoreToughGuy_starcommandseries.com
April 28, 2009 3:44 PM
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@nakedscience: Interesting point. I wonder if they did go to bed, but then got up at some point. Seems possible.

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Applekid
April 28, 2009 3:29 PM
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I'm not getting any that I'm not paying for. Maybe I should start taking Ambien? The prescription has got to be cheaper.

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BigPapaCherry
April 28, 2009 4:03 PM
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@Applekid: It'll be a wash if you don't remember and can't enjoy it.

Might as well pay for the solution that lets you remember, if not enjoy, it.

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rubyfrog
April 28, 2009 3:29 PM
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Right out of the prescribing guide, bold is my emphasis:

Although behaviors such as \"sleep-driving\" may occur with Ambien alone at therapeutic doses, the use of alcohol and other CNS depressants with Ambien appears to increase the risk of such behaviors, as does the use of Ambien at doses exceeding the maximum recommended dose.

The guy says in his letter that he took a double-dose of Ambien. It's very important to follow the prescribed doses, especially for sedative/hypnotic drugs. Sorry for being the typical \"blame the poster\" Consumerist guy :-p

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Trai_Dep
April 28, 2009 4:45 PM
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@rubyfrog: I'd point out the first clause in that phrase, \"Although behaviors such as \"sleep-driving\" may occur with Ambien alone at therapeutic doses\".
The rest is qualifying weasel-words.

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zentex
April 28, 2009 3:42 PM
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@rubyfrog: seems to me there is plenty of justification to blame the poster. Don't feel so bad.

However, I have to be really suspect that dude got sleep-laid...by strange no less.

Even if he was sleep-walking, he obviously wanted to bang the girl and the sub took over and did it for him. It was prolly only a matter of time before he did it anyways.

my theory anyways. i would diagnose this as a sever case of scapegoatitis

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Murph1908
April 28, 2009 3:51 PM
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@zentex:

Well put.

Getting some while on Ambien? Sure. Possible when your partner is laying next to you.

Going out and getting some strange while NOT on anything? Sure. Happens all the time. (Though not to me)

Getting strange on Ambien? Highly unlikely.

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johnva
April 28, 2009 4:08 PM
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@Murph1908: Why do you think it's highly unlikely? I don't see any reason it's not possible. We don't know that for sure in this case (he could just be a liar), but there is no reason to think that it's highly unlikely.

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Garfunkle
April 28, 2009 3:40 PM
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I can certainly understand the people calling \"shenanigans\" since it does seem improbable. However, I had my own Ambien experience complete with tactile and visual hallucinations.

I had to stop taking it once I asked my friend who was crying, and why was the ceiling swirling? Turns out it was me, and it wasn't.

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TheRedSeven
April 28, 2009 3:40 PM
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I call Shenanigans!

While I don't deny the side-effects of Ambien, the linked article is an \"Ask Abby\" type column, which are notoriously prone to fake letters. This one screams of such fakery...

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oneliketadow
April 28, 2009 3:42 PM
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Being a man makes you slutty.

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militarydave
April 28, 2009 5:56 PM
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@oneliketadow: No, men make women into sluts, and vice versa! haha!

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WiglyWorm must cease and decist
April 28, 2009 3:43 PM
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@TheKeg: It's hard to be held responsible that you did not consciously decide to do. Kinda like how manslaughter exists as an alternative to murder charges, and how the temporary insanity plea can get you out of trouble.

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backbroken
April 28, 2009 3:45 PM
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Sounds like Ambien is all the things Enzyte wishes it could be.

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baristabrawl
April 28, 2009 3:46 PM
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OMG. I have the most fun on Ambien. Once I did all my laundry, grocery shopped and built a book shelf! I woke up the next morning early to get these errands done and they were all done. Laundry all nicely stacked and ready to be put away, bookshelf in the middle of the floor and my cabinets stocked.

The downside? I have no idea what I where I washed all of my clothes, because I didn't have a washer or dryer, the food I bought was all \"munchies\" but the bookshelf is still standing.

I've had conversations and encounters I don't even remember on Ambien. It's some crazy, crazy shit.

I recommend that you put the pill in your mouth and then put your head on a pillow. If you don't, you will experience the effects of a sedative hypnotic. It's not like Benadryl where you get really tired and then you lie down. No, no. It's more like acid.

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BeerManMike
April 28, 2009 3:46 PM
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@chatterboxwriting: Interesting... instead of gum when you get pulled over, pop an ambien and act like your out of it. \"yes, judge, he had ambien in his blood test.. judge: \"case dis-missed!\".

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MrEvil
April 28, 2009 4:11 PM
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My bath towel keeps asking me \"Wanna get high?\" Every time I get out of the shower. Maybe I should get my script for Ambien filled and take him up on that offer.

Just kidding of course, my doctor did prescribe me some ambien last week and he told me about the somnambulism. However, the sleep sex thing he was thinking is more than likely a cheating husband trying to cover up.

Now, I only hope if I start picking up chicks while on Ambien I have enough sense to use a condom. That would really suck to wake up and \"SURPRISE You have an STD!\"

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RandomHookup
April 28, 2009 4:18 PM
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I see a new \"off-label\" use for Ambien. Might be better than Paxil at getting shy guys laid.

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Meatlocker - still a man, despite his white iPhone fetish.
April 28, 2009 4:28 PM
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A man took Zolpidem tartrate,
rather than stay home and masturbate.
He got some good action
that lead to fatal attraction.
Next time he should try popping eight.

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Cafezinha
April 28, 2009 4:31 PM
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I have on and off periods of insomnia, and I'm always urged by all and sundry to try to miracles of Ambien so I can sleep. But I just can't do it.


1.) Too many stories of these kind of unconscious activities happening to people
2.) I have 2 small children, and don't feel comfortable knowing that I may not be able to respond to them in an emergency during the night, especially when the mister's on duty
3.) My one experience with Ambien (after giving birth to my twins) involved intense hallucinations and wild rambling in gibberish. I was quite convinced that the painting of a ship in my hospital room was sailing--the rolling waves were making me seasick.

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missmicrophone
April 28, 2009 4:32 PM
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My husband takes Ambien and it says right on the label that some people sleep walk, sleep eat, sleep sex and so on. I kept waiting for him to ravish me that first night. Still waiting though.

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orlo
April 28, 2009 8:39 PM
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@missmicrophone: Contact me for a free sample of Scorned, a new miracle drug combining Viagra and Rohypnol.

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militarydave
April 28, 2009 5:54 PM
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@missmicrophone: All I have to say is WOW! still waiting huh...? WOW!

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kwsventures
April 28, 2009 4:33 PM
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Bogus story

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Hate_Brian_Club_I'mNotOnlyThePresidentI'mAClient
April 28, 2009 4:43 PM
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A friend of mine who is quite reserved was having sleeping problems a few years back and was prescribed Ambien. She ended up sending nude photos of herself to about 20 people in her phone and has no recollection of it.

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Gideon
April 28, 2009 4:45 PM
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Ambien can do some nutty stuff. I've been taking it on and off for almost 10 years and I've had everything from hallucinations, hooking up with people (frequently hallucinating WHILE doing that)(and FREQUENTLY screwing around with girlfriends), making strange foods, I've bought a NUMBER of things online, send STRANGE texts, etc..

I've kind of trained myself not to leave the house now but...

Yeah, it's a mess. But, if you deal with chronic insomnia (about 15 years in my case) you don't care - it's worth it. Absolutely.

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Lucky_Strike-001
April 28, 2009 4:51 PM
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I take ambien for my insomnia regularly. This story does not surprise me. Unless you imminently get into bed and get to sleep you will hallucinate if you fight it. After a few minutes of hallucinations your memory will blank as the anterograde amnesia kicks in. You will not remember anything after that point. I was staying at my parents house with my fiancee and I was sleeping on the downstairs couch. Apparently later that night she came down the stairs to see what noise was coming from the basement and I ranting about \"how I was a motorbike\" I was making vroom vroom sounds until they calmed me down and got me back to sleep. I have no recollection of this. But my mom and my fiancee confirm this story.

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Megan Squier
April 28, 2009 6:05 PM
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@Lucky_Strike-001: That's actually pretty funny. I've been on Ambien before and had a hard time getting off of it so I tend to avoid it. I'll stick to good old benzodiazepines; I don't feel hung over in the morning after taking those either.

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Anonymous
April 28, 2009 5:30 PM
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I was on Ambien for a short time a few years back.

I would end up having about a 4-6 hour memory gap of everything I had done up until taking the pill.

Not fun at all.

It would help me sleep though, 8 hours solid without waking up.

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LostTurntable
April 28, 2009 5:31 PM
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When are we going to turn this stuff into a covert chemical weapon? Unconscious gay sex would totally destroy the terrorist morale.

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drgncabe
April 28, 2009 5:33 PM
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Its different when you trust the opinion of a doctor and the pharma company on a drug that is supposed to help a condition.

Ambien should not be equal to DUI. I believe strongly in personal responsibility but if the person has no control over their mind during the actions, how can they be hold accountable? Obviously its harder to grasp that concept when something more disastrous happens (say, an accident with a death).

Do you think someone should be held accountable if an experimental medicine for cancer causes someone unknowingly to, say, murder a family next door due to chemical changes in the brain when said person never had a previous violent thought, let alone action? It all depends on perception and many reasoning level.

There would be people who would want to hold the person accountable saying they never should have taken the drug or gotten cancer in the first place (unrealistic).

There would be people who would hold the drug company accountable. (realistic but sometimes unproductive)

Or there would be people who would blame the government and some secret organization for testing a killers 'wonder drug.'

I don't seem to really be advocating a point, but bringing up a scenario of what I would see happen should such an action occur. I could easily be on either side of the first two examples depending on how it effected me (say, a family member was the victim of the drug or victim of the user of the drug) as you probably would be to.

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drgncabe
April 28, 2009 5:37 PM
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@drgncabe: There is also intent which is harder to gauge. Its pretty easy to figure intent if the person was taking illicit drugs or alcohol but gets more complicated when its drugs prescribed to treat a condition, even more so when the user of said drugs is unaware of their actions.

Situations also.. If you take ambien as your getting in the car to go somewhere, that is worse than taking ambien before bed and waking up on the other side of town.

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militarydave
April 28, 2009 5:52 PM
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kick ass! i need to buy some off this and start trippin balls on it! I can finally nail my ex-girlfriend's sister now and have no recollection of it, take photos and send it to them! haha!


SWEEEEET!!!


-dave

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FuryOfFirestorm
April 28, 2009 6:03 PM
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What happens if you mix Ambien with Provigil? (One makes you sleep, the other lets you function without sleep). You'll probably wake up in Milwaukee, married to Dakota Fanning, wearing underwear made from tinfoil and handcuffed to a goat.

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ahdn
April 28, 2009 6:13 PM
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I can attest for this. My boyfriend takes Ambien periodically. Unlike the hallucinations you can get when you stay awake, the \"sluttiness\" starts up after we are both asleep. Actually, I think I'm the only one who gets woken up by this.

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Lizzy4e
April 28, 2009 6:49 PM
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Has no one heard of Melatonin? it is a naturally accuring hormone that is not addictive and promotes health sleep without hangovers. It is available at health food stores and stores like GNC.You want the sublingual type. Take it 30 mins before you plan to be in bed.

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quail
April 28, 2009 8:20 PM
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When the sleep eating came to light a few years back, the sleep sex emerged too. There's lots of cases where a couple has sex and the next morning the person taking Ambien has no memory of it. This is probably the first case of adultery attributed to the drug.

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Anonymous
April 28, 2009 8:56 PM
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A couple of my Ambien adventures: Bought my buddy a $1k LCD TV and Logitech remote online. Boy, was HE happy.

Trimmed the lawn at midnite with a miner's headlamp on (said the neighbors).

Switched to Lunesta but still have sleep walking episodes 2-3 times a year.....powerful stuff!

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fatcop
April 28, 2009 9:15 PM
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I MUST get some of this before they ban it or mess it up.

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whiterose
April 28, 2009 9:16 PM
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I totally cleaned my apartment once after taking Ambien. I had a small flashback when I opened the fridge and it was clean. Had very vague memories of doing so.

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boxjockey68
April 28, 2009 10:02 PM
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ya know...the side affects to this & other drugs are just off the chart, is there a list or site that might be kept to see how many trials or tests are done before a drug is approved?? I'm curious..I just can NOT believe the side affects of these drugs..how do they ever get approved anyhow?

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Yoko Broke Up The Beatles
April 28, 2009 10:14 PM
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Eh, Ambien? C'mon people - beer does the same thing, and the process can be much more fun!

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nacoran
April 28, 2009 11:16 PM
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Apparently Ambien works on the part of your brain that filters out the background noise. I was just reading an article somewhere about how patients diagnosed as being in a permanent vegetative state showed some signs of interaction with the outside world after taking Ambien. I only read an article based on the study, but the theory was that the brain automatically filters out the static, as it were, and in those patients the brain activity levels only amounted to static. By suppressing the filter the signal got through. It wasn't much, but it was something. That might be the same thing going on with sleep sexing. Usually the brain filters out the low level signals to the body during sleep and the Ambien is suppressing the filtering mechanism.

I take Ambien, and to my knowledge I haven't been sleep sexing, although the old ladies at the nursing home keep giving me dirty looks and one is sending me links to male enhancement product sites.

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MissPiss
April 28, 2009 11:54 PM
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OMG! My psychotic ex-fiance had a prescription for Ambien! He would abuse the hell out of that drug. Then himself! He would punch himself in the face and slam his face against the wall until blood was running out of his nose! It would scare the crap outta me! Thank God I found out he was cheating on me. It was the best thing that ever happened! I gave his sorry ass the boot before we got married!

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Blue387
April 29, 2009 3:31 AM
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I know how that guy can get out of this mess:

\"Hey, honey? Ever wanted a threesome?\"

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jezebelseven
April 29, 2009 3:41 AM
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I've been on Ambien off and on for a month and haven't had any problems with it. If anything, it hasn't been working well because after the first week, it hasn't been helping me fall asleep at all. That first week it was a godsend though.

I *do* feel like I dream less when I take it...

Am I the only one? I feel like I'm missing out on something here. :(

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Reginald2
April 29, 2009 12:03 PM
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After a recent story on Consumerist Ambien sales skyrocketed among the much sought after 15 year old boy market.

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Petra
April 30, 2009 1:09 AM
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Normally you only need half an Ambien to knock you out cold within thirty minutes after jumping into bed... so why did this guy take an Ambien and then go out? I mean, he had to have gone somewhere to hook up with a girl, right?

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