var json_comments = new Array("
\"user-pic\"
noone1569
April 7, 2009 3:20 PM
Moderate | Flag for review

don't, that's my advice, nothing good comes from it!

Reply
6 replies
\"user-pic\"
Jessy Irwin
April 7, 2009 5:10 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

dragonfire81: I got a \"diamond\" ring from my fiance, but it doesn't have a diamond. It worked perfectly for me, but I'm an art historian (quirky) and have vehemently been against diamonds since my mother, grandmother, and great grandmother have about 20 carats of divorce diamonds between them and their 8 divorces. My ring is here, and no, we didn't go for the plastic, we went for the metal.

[www.alissiamt.com]

Reply
\"user-pic\"
KidU
April 7, 2009 3:26 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@noone1569: You are a grade A idiot. Learn how to read.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Elcheecho
April 7, 2009 4:55 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@KidU: maybe they mean getting married.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
lonestarbl
April 7, 2009 3:24 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@noone1569: That's what my granfather keeps telling me...

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
Blueskylaw
April 7, 2009 3:21 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

The Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics has announced the discovery of a mass of crystallized carbon formerly known as star BPM 37093, now known as the biggest diamond in the galaxy, fifty light years away from Earth in the constellation Centaurus. The diamond is estimated to be 2,500 miles across and weighs approximately 10 billion-trillion-trillion-carats - a one, followed by 34 zeros. Travis Metcalfe, an astronomer from the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics and leader of the team who discovered the gem, says \"You would need a jeweler's loupe the size of the sun to grade this diamond. Bill Gates and Donald Trump together couldn't begin to afford it.\"

Reply
3 replies
\"user-pic\"
Fresh-Fest-1986
April 7, 2009 3:37 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Blueskylaw: If they made a reality show about that extravagance then I would totally watch it and get entangled.


But without the show then it's impossible for me to care.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
BytheSea
April 7, 2009 3:29 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Blueskylaw: So your advice is that he should build a spaceship and go take a chip?

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
Connie Lee
April 7, 2009 3:24 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Tip #1: Don't buy diamonds. They're just a symbol of your adherence to vapid, superficial social norms. It's stupid.

Reply
16 replies
\"user-pic\"
Baccus83
April 7, 2009 5:05 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Connie Lee: Well I guess I'm stupid for buying my fiance a diamond engagement ring two months ago. And I guess we're both stupid for being happy with it. Maybe I should take it back on condition of being stupid and return it for a nice piece of zirconium. That'd be great, right?

Honestly, people who say these things don't know what they're talking about. I don't CARE if DeBeers artificially inflates their value. I don't CARE if they're really not that rare. It's a tangible (and beautiful) symbol of commitment to the person I love. I don't think it would be as big of a gesture if it cost a $300.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Clamps
April 7, 2009 6:30 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Gene Gemperline:

Well said. There are people who will criticize any purchase above base necessity. Unless it's scrap iron ring with glass from a recycled beer bottle, it's not worth it, apparently.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Coles_Law
April 7, 2009 4:26 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Connie Lee: Well, my mockingbird wouldn't sing. What else was I supposed to do?

Reply
\"user-pic\"
pjorg
April 7, 2009 3:34 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Connie Lee: That's pretty rude of you to say so; there are many reasons other than \"wanting to fit in\" that someone would want a diamond ring.

Diamonds are rare and (to many people) quite beautiful; both I and my fiancée admire her ring on a daily basis. For us, it has nothing to do with the \"bling\" and a lot more to do with the beauty, and also the commitment and trust between us.

That being said, diamonds are very expensive. If it's an option, you might consider looking for a stone that someone in your family is willing to pass on to you. You can have it re-set in a setting that the recipient can pick themselves, and it might be a lot more meaningful to everyone that way.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Blinky987
April 7, 2009 6:23 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Oligarch_GitEmSteveDave: Well, I wish the person had been more constructive and said \"Please research where diamonds come from before you purchase one.\" The social and ethical cost of diamonds are much higher than the monetary cost.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
smokinfoo
April 7, 2009 5:36 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@pjorg:
Diamons are not rare, merely the supply of them is.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
morganlh85
April 7, 2009 4:15 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@pjorg: Diamonds are rare? Really? Then why does every shopping mall have 6 or 7 stores full of hundreds, if not thousands, of diamonds? That's hardly a rarity to me.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
pjorg
April 8, 2009 1:03 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

@morganlh85: I'm really, really sorry that everyone is fixating on this single word that I wrote. In fairness, I did defend it. So I'll publicly renounce my position that diamonds are rare.

The point that I hope people will take away is that many people find diamonds to be aesthetically pleasing, and also that the cost does represent some \"barrier to entry\" that I think is important to the process. I'd like to think that giving someone a gift that is often a sizable portion of your income is the kind of thing that you would carefully consider, which is important before entering into marriage (assuming it's for an engagement ring). I'm not saying that people that have inexpensive rings don't love each other; I'm saying that it's a bigger gesture. For whatever that's worth.

In the case of an heirloom diamond, as I suggested earlier, it's arguably an even bigger gesture since there is already sentimental value attached.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Oligarch_GitEmSteveDave
April 7, 2009 3:36 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@pjorg: Diamonds are actually NOT rare. Emeralds and others are much more rare.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Anonymous
April 7, 2009 4:30 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@MormonChristmas_GitEmSteveDave: Emeralds are far too soft to wear as an engagement ring. I've got no opinion about whether diamonds are a good idea or not-- wear what you dig, right? But emeralds can't be worn every day or they will chip apart-- a friend had to have her ring replaced because of this-- and I know a girl doesn't want that!

Reply
\"user-pic\"
pjorg
April 7, 2009 3:42 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Oligarch_GitEmSteveDave: So because something else is more rare, diamonds must not be?

I should clarify that I was talking about jewelry-grade diamonds, not just any-old industrial drill bit.

In any case, I take your point.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
David Dixon
April 7, 2009 3:59 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@pjorg: Also to pjorg's point, being a more expensive stone, buying a diamond can show a commitment and care to the fiance-to-be. It allows one of the parties to save up, plan, scrape for money, do whatever they have to in order to get a diamond that will be perfect. Sure, you could settle for something cheaper, but for me personally I would rather save up for a few extra months, sell a few more items on craigslist and then give her a diamond that will stand out that says \"I am committed and I have financial security.\"

Notice I said \"it can show commitment.\" This doesn't work for everyone, but it is how I approach diamonds.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Oligarch_GitEmSteveDave
April 7, 2009 4:27 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@David Dixon: Wow, I hate to say it, but that is a horrible reason. You show you have financial security by blowing more money than you have/can comfortably spend(based on your statement of needing to sell things) on something that the other party will more than likely keep if things go south?

Me? I would rather buy a nice cultured diamond that is the exact same as any other diamond out there, and use the money I save to put in an account to ensure that once I do get married, I can provide for my future SO. The $3,000 I save in a nice interest bearing account can provide months of rent/food. Trying to sell that ring to do the same thing, and being required to buy it back afterwards costs A LOT more.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
supercereal
April 7, 2009 4:24 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@David Dixon: True, but a house or car (or any number of other things) can say that even more so. And plus, they are far more practical than a rock.

Still, I'm not one to argue with the tradition behind diamonds. :)

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Oligarch_GitEmSteveDave
April 7, 2009 3:53 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@pjorg: DeBeers recently had a HUGE class action lawsuit due to their \"fixing, raising, and controlling diamond prices, and by issuing false and misleading advertising. \" [consumerist.com]

While, yes, they are rarer than quartz, thru storage and limiting the supply released, the diamond companies have cultured the idea that they are more rare than they actually are. All that is needed for the formation of a diamond is carbon, heat, and pressure. This is why lab cultured diamonds are indistinguishable from the \"rare\" ones pulled from the Earth for jewelry(in fact, the major \"giveaway\" of a cultured diamond is it's lack of imperfections).

Reply
\"user-pic\"
kingmanic
April 7, 2009 6:38 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Oligarch_GitEmSteveDave: Not anymore. There are now exactly identical except de beers now etches a serial number on theirs. So basically if you want a man made flaw in your diamond: buy natural. If you want a cheaper more perfect stone go artificial.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Oligarch_GitEmSteveDave
April 7, 2009 7:11 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@kingmanic: Most companies etch their diamonds. In fact, you can etch them yourself as well, with pictures of yourself! [i.gizmodo.com]
Also companies that grade/insure diamonds etch them. But minus \"cutting\", a DeBeers diamond, a Zales diamond, and a cultured diamond are still just carbon.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
pjorg
April 7, 2009 3:56 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Oligarch_GitEmSteveDave: I like you, Dave, but you've yet to refute my original statement that they are rare. I never said anything about them being \"exceptionally rare,\" or \"the rarest of gems.\"

Reply
\"user-pic\"
ceilingFANBOY
April 7, 2009 4:30 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@pjorg:
[money.cnn.com]

This doesn't explicitly say that diamonds are not rare, as people are led to believe, but it does point out that the supply of diamonds was regulated by DeBeers. In actuality, the supply of diamonds far outweighed the demand, but because DeBeers was the source of between 80 and 90% of the world's diamond output, they were able to regulate how many diamonds were put out.

[video.google.com]

Reply
\"user-pic\"
ceilingFANBOY
April 7, 2009 4:41 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@ceilingFANBOY: Around the 10 minute mark of the video is where it really starts talking about the supply control

Reply
\"user-pic\"
supercereal
April 7, 2009 4:21 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@pjorg: In reality, they're only \"rare\" because the supply is artificially limited by their monopolistic distributors (as Dave pointed out). As far as earth stones and gems go, sure diamonds are more rare than you're average \"side of the road\" rocks, but not nearly as rare as many other less expensive jewelry stones out there.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Ninjanice
April 7, 2009 3:33 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Connie Lee: So what other gem should he get his bride-to-be? Because most other gem stones are not good to wear every day for the rest of your life because they are not as strong as diamonds. I have several frieds that didn't want a diamond, but ended up getting one because they wanted their ring to last a lifetime.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
The Unicorn
April 7, 2009 8:18 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Ninjanice: I myself have an aquamarine engagement ring, which is for all intents & purposes as durable as a diamond. when I was first showing it off, I made a point of specifying that I didn't *want* a diamond, just in case anyone would erroneously think that it was a \"cheap\" substitute for the \"real thing.\"

...then, after I realized that all the passing acquaintances who saw the ring thought it WAS a diamond anyway, I stopped. (the stone, if one's looking closely, is visibly more turquoise than a diamond would be, but only if you're paying close attention. & no one's ever questioned that it's an engagement ring -- even before I had a wedding band beneath it.) so I think one can safely say that aquamarine is an excellent diamond-alternative, if you're looking for one.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
adamondi
April 7, 2009 3:59 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Ninjanice: Your friends needed to look beyond the hype. Diamonds are very hard, sure, but most other precious stones like Emerald, Ruby, Sapphire, and Topaz are also very hard and strong. Therefore, they would also last many lifetimes. Hence the large amounts of heirloom jewelry made with those colored stones that have lasted generations.

The truth of the matter is that Diamonds have an artificially inflated value which is manipulated by the DeBeers Diamond cartel. Any precious stone will last a lifetime, or more, and people who insist on a diamond are just buying into the hype.

My alternative suggestion is to purchase an artificial, lab-created diamond that will last as long and be chemically identical to a mined diamond--yet will cost a fraction of the amount of a mined diamond.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Jesse Stein
April 7, 2009 7:21 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@adamondi: Where can you buy those, though?

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Kimaroo - 100% Pure Natural Kitteh
April 7, 2009 3:41 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Ninjanice: Sapphires are a good choice.. they are second hardest compared to diamonds..


I started out with a sapphire ring, but we switched to a diamond ring on our last anniversary.. The reason? People couldn't tell I was *married* and I really was tired of getting shocked reactions when I mentioned my husband.


I still love sapphires though, and maybe if it was done in a more traditional way it would look more \"married\" than my ring looked.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
jackbishop
April 7, 2009 4:59 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Kimaroo: People couldn't tell you were married because you didn't have a diamond in your ring? That's insane. Diamonds aren't even traditional for wedding rings -- that's a plain gold band. Yes, they're traditional in engagement rings, but social convention on wearing an engagement ring after the marriage varies.

Maybe keep the sapphire ring, and get a plain gold band in addition if you don't have one?

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Kimaroo - 100% Pure Natural Kitteh
April 7, 2009 5:28 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@jackbishop: Well actually it was a sapphire with one lil diamond on each side.. I guess it was more the design of the ring.. which I really liked.. but it didn't say \"married\" to most people. I had a wedding band made to go around it because of the unusual shape, but people couldn't tell that it was two seperate rings.


Now I have a princess-cut, 3 stone, platinum ring.. and I want to get a band to go with it later on.. but it does say \"married\" now and I really like it. I still have my sapphire ring and I'm going to have it sized up to wear on my right hand.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Kimaroo - 100% Pure Natural Kitteh
April 8, 2009 2:05 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Kimaroo: In case anyone is curious.. this is a picture of my old ring:

Reply
\"user-pic\"
edwardso
April 7, 2009 3:35 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Ninjanice: good point. My wedding set is 65 years old and still going strong

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Oligarch_GitEmSteveDave
April 7, 2009 3:27 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Connie Lee: Please read the article all the way through before commenting, so you don't miss lines like:

So now we ask the readers: what's your advice for buying diamond jewelry? No \"don't buy diamonds!\" suggestions, please, unless you have a serious alternative.
Reply
\"user-pic\"
god_forbids
April 8, 2009 12:22 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Oligarch_GitEmSteveDave: And yet, diamonds are racist, sexist, coerced, and useless. At least so say 1,000 Jezebels. Why should they be beyond reproach?

And isn't this site against pointless, evil and consumeristic companies anyway? Some fool wants to buy a diamond and we can't say anything, but when someone wants to buy a Dell or shop at Wal-Mart the roof blows off this place.

What gives?

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
SadSam
April 7, 2009 3:24 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Hire a gemologist, which is what Mr. Sam did, who can give you good education and most importantly obtain wholesale gems and a fraction of the price of retail.

Reply
1 replies
\"user-pic\"
freelunch
April 8, 2009 2:14 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

@SadSam: can you provide more information on this? how does one go about 'hiring' a gemologist and soliciting a discount diamond from one? and which society did the MR. hire a gemologist from?

Reply
","","
\"user-pic\"
dragonfire81
April 7, 2009 3:25 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

I always cringe when my wife wants diamonds because I know how ridiculously overpriced they are. I could spend less money and get her something more meaningful, but sometimes she insists on the bling.

Is there a male equivalent of diamonds?

You know, a woman wanting a fancy diamond ring is equal to a guy who wants.....what?

Reply
19 replies
\"user-pic\"
Ben Garbe
April 8, 2009 5:40 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@dragonfire81:

The male equivalent of diamonds is/are: butt plugs, lap dances, lingerie

Reply
\"user-pic\"
edwardso
April 7, 2009 4:47 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@dragonfire81: Something that is important for people to remember is that you will (presumably) be wearing the ring for the rest of your life so liking the way it looks on your finger is crucial. My husband didn't want to spend any money on his but after some discussion we decided to get one made out of damascus steel (like a knife) he loves it and always wears it

Reply
\"user-pic\"
pecan 3.14159265
April 7, 2009 4:05 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@dragonfire81: Your wife wants a diamond. What's wrong with that? It might be overpriced, but why can't there be a happy medium with you paying a reasonable amount and her getting the jewelry that she likes. To YOU something less expensive is more meaningful - are you sure you're not focused on the \"less expensive\" part rather than the more meaningful part? I'm the first one to say that there are far more meaningful ways of saying \"I love you\" than jewelry, but to some people, jewelry IS meaningful. And there's nothing wrong with that, it's just jewelry. Sometimes you have to look past it all, and do what the other person wants because it's more meaningful to them.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
dragonfire81
April 7, 2009 4:19 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@pecan 3.14159265: It just one of those things to me you know.

I mean of course I will buy wifey a diamond if she wants one but I guess I don't understand how girls can get so hung up on jewelry. I don't think the fact my wife has a big rock on her finger means I love her any more than if she didn't have said rock.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
pecan 3.14159265
April 7, 2009 4:29 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@dragonfire81: And also...I mean absolutely no offense, because I totally understand where you're coming from, but have you considered that by NOT buying her the thing she wants for a gift, you're expressing that your love for her has limits, and that her desire to have a piece of jewelry is not more important to you than your desire to save money or give something that possibly only you will enjoy or enjoy more?

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Gtmac
April 7, 2009 5:06 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@pecan 3.14159265: Expressing that your love has limits because you don't buy her something she wants? If your relationship is predicated on the understanding that one party (regardless of gender) perceives love as the gifting of material objects and you're ok with that then more power to you. May you find happiness that way if that's your taste.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
pecan 3.14159265
April 7, 2009 5:16 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Gtmac...and sometimes y: what I mean is that there may be perception that one has limits on what they will do, especially when that something is not entirely unreasonable. The giving of items is something that is ingrained on culture, and it's something that seems to be very important to people of all cultures. What is given is also important to a great deal of people. I was merely saying that perhaps dragonfire may benefit from seeing it from his wife's perspective, and maybe there could be a middle ground reached to where both parties can have meaningful gift giving.

Me, I don't particularly care for gifts. I give them, but not only on special occasions. I don't care for expensive jewelry, I'd much rather have a good book, which is what I get a lot of times from Mr. Pi, and it's meaningful to me. But for some people, books are their jewelry, and jewelry can hold much more meaning for them than other things. I'm just saying that maybe that's what Mrs. Dragonfire is associating with jewelry, and that there's nothing wrong with her perception of love.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
pecan 3.14159265
April 7, 2009 4:27 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@dragonfire81: That's very true, but it also comes down to her wanting jewelry. Does it have to be a diamond? What about crystal? Swarovski makes great jewelry that sparkles a lot. I think jewelry is great, if it's given with meaning. Maybe a ring with an engraving on the inside would be more meaningful to you? There are many ways a ring can be more than just \"a piece of jewelry\" - engraving, a special occasion, things like that might help you get over the fact that you don't understand why she likes jewelry so much.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
adamondi
April 7, 2009 4:02 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@dragonfire81: A BMW. A Mercedes. 24-inch rims. A 65-inch Plasma TV. A Mac Pro. This list could go on and on.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
EarlNowak
April 7, 2009 3:41 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Frank Murphy:

I'm anti-diamond both because of the and the blood on the hands of the international diamond cartel.

I rented \"Blood Diamond\" (great movie) and watched it with my lady, then explained that on moral grounds I can't bring myself to buy diamonds. It's hard to read her sometimes, but I think she gets it, and respects me enough to be understanding.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
mac-phisto
April 7, 2009 3:41 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@dragonfire81: unfettered access to the remote control 24/7?

Reply
\"user-pic\"
richcreamerybutter
April 7, 2009 3:41 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@dragonfire81: I wouldn't know how to complete the sentence because I'm one of those women who don't want diamond rings.

Incidentally, how is this post any more off topic than Connie Lee's?

Reply
\"user-pic\"
richcreamerybutter
April 7, 2009 3:42 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@richcreamerybutter: rather, NOT off topic

Reply
\"user-pic\"
ojzitro
April 7, 2009 3:36 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@dragonfire81: The only thing a man wants that trumps the sillines of womanly wants, is another woman...So if you're married, the male equivalent to diamonds is a girlfriend.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
floraposte
April 7, 2009 6:03 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@ojzitro: Or anything that plugs in the wall.

Men actually spend more on luxuries than women because they're more inclined to spend money on things run with that expensive blue smoke that you can never let out of the box.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
missy070203
April 8, 2009 1:06 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@floraposte:
rings made of tungsten are awesome for men.... tungtsen is one of the strongest metals there is and you can get it in black or polished carbon......makes the perfect man ring

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
Anonymous
April 7, 2009 3:25 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Propose, then go with your fiance to diamond shop. That way you know she likes her setting and all that. Go to an independent store rather than a mall store. My independent jewler knocked $800 off my stone right away. Cut is the most important of the 4Cs. A well cut stone will sparkle like crazy and even look bigger. Mine catches the sunlight when i'm drivng and throws little rainbows all over the place because it's cut so well. Finally, insure it. To ensure my ring it's $40 a year on our home owners insurance. Well worth it.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
Chris Walters
April 7, 2009 3:25 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Okay, I'll repeat:

No \"don't buy diamonds!\" suggestions, please, unless you have a serious alternative.

Reply
10 replies
\"user-pic\"
Anne Boleyn
April 8, 2009 7:45 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Chris Walters: Okay, here's a serious alternative: Moissanite. Check out [diamondssuck.com] and tell me that you aren't convinced that it is superior to diamond in every way.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Jessy Irwin
April 7, 2009 5:15 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Chris Walters: My engagement ring is here-- [www.alissiamt.com] . I'm not a fan of diamonds so mocking the concept of an overpriced diamond happened to work for me.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Jeangenie
April 7, 2009 5:27 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Jessy Irwin: I love cubic zirconias, more brilliant than a cheap diamond and WAY cheaper for a brilliant gem.


I have a small sapphire as my engagement ring. It is beautiful and I love it.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
zibby
April 7, 2009 3:54 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Chris Walters: But...but...something like this is such a great opportunity to show how much smarter than everybody else I am. Don't you know how difficult that is to resist when one can't be punched in the face?

Reply
\"user-pic\"
floraposte
April 7, 2009 6:07 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@zibby: Someday they'll make that internet machine for doing so, and we'll all be surprised by how much more punching we're getting than doing :-).

Reply
\"user-pic\"
richcreamerybutter
April 7, 2009 3:45 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Chris Walters: I know there are many local artists in my area designing beautiful engagement/wedding rings that not only don't cost an arm and a leg, but don't feature the typical bling stone settings. It's a matter of getting people out of the mindset that you have to spend 3 months salary on...a stone!

Reply
\"user-pic\"
nakedscience
April 7, 2009 3:36 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Chris Walters: Any other gem that isn't a lame diamond? :P Sorry, I don't like diamonds. They are unoriginal and tacky. But I'm not a jewelery kinda gal anyway.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Julia789
April 7, 2009 3:31 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Chris Walters: I have an alternative. If she is OK with it, buy her birthstone, but in a really beautiful setting. With the cost of the stone being lower, you can spend a little more on a gorgeous ring with intricate design and quality.


This won't work for me, my birthstone is a diamond. ;-)


However, my husband bought my a gorgeous \"antique looking\" ring he had designed in a style I like, with our son's birthstone - Alexandrite. He spent more on the natural Alexandrite than the synthetic one. It's gorgeous, a bigger carat than a diamond we could have afforded, and I get compliments on it all the time because of the unusual purple-green stone color. And it means a lot to me being our son's birthstone. It was a great anniversary gift.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
cheepers
April 7, 2009 3:55 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Julia789: Alexandrite is GORGEOUS, it's my favorite!

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Julia789
April 7, 2009 6:38 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@cheepers: I love the Alexandrite stone, too. Even if it wasn't my son's birthstone I'd still love it. It's a really pretty purple/green depending on the light. Like it has a fire inside.


It was very hard to find the natural stone - most on the market was synthetic for quite some time. However, I heard a few years ago that a very large quarry of natural Alexandrite was discovered during a mining operation, bringing the price down a bit as well as making it easier to find.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
mac-phisto
April 7, 2009 3:42 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Julia789: This won't work for me, my birthstone is a diamond. ;-)

rofl!

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Julia789
April 7, 2009 4:03 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@mac-phisto: LOL - When my husband and I were dating years ago (we've been married 10 years) he asked me what my birthstone was. When I told him, he replied \"Awwwww crap! Diamond? Are you serious? I have all the luck.\"


He was not looking forward to a lifetime of obligatory diamond birthstone jewelry purchases on major holidays and milestones. Luckily for him, I find more emotion and meaning in our 7-year-old son's birthstone. ;-)

Reply
\"user-pic\"
mac-phisto
April 7, 2009 5:04 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Julia789: my parents got married when they were young & broke, over the years my dad upgraded her engagement ring & for their 20th anniversary, he took her original diamond ring & had it made into a \"mother's ring\" (i guess they call it) w/ the birthstone for all 3 kids. just like you, my one sister's stone is a diamond & dad had it flanked by an emerald & a garnet. my mom absolutely loved that ring. i know i loved seeing her wear it.

so yeah, i can certainly see why you might enjoy that more.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
Oligarch_GitEmSteveDave
April 7, 2009 3:25 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

I'm just waiting for cultured diamonds to exceed the 2 carat mark so I can get a nice 1.5-2c marquis cut for the future Ex-Mrs. SteveDave.

Reply
2 replies
\"user-pic\"
Elcheecho
April 7, 2009 5:01 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Oligarch_GitEmSteveDave: well it would explain the \"ex.\"

or does he mean the diamond?

Reply
","","","
\"user-pic\"
punkrawka
April 7, 2009 3:27 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

My experience with bluenile.com was excellent. Compared to the B&M jewelry stores I visited, I got to customize instead of picking from what was on the floor, I had no pushy salespeople and I saved about 30%. My wife was thrilled with the end result, too, and the quality has been perfect so far. I would recommend them any day.

Also, all the people saying \"don't buy diamonds,\" why are you in a thread about advice on buying diamonds? If you asked for advice on buying Birkenstocks, tie-dye shirts and protest gear I wouldn't pretend to have any meaningful input on that subject. Get off your high horses.

Reply
7 replies
\"user-pic\"
AnonyLawyer
April 7, 2009 9:46 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@punkrawka: LOVE BlueNile. Engagement ring, wedding bands, and other jewelry gifts all from BN. Kay et al are all ripoffs. The quality of BN diamonds cannot be compared to anyone else at their pricepoint.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
JAG42
April 7, 2009 8:56 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@punkrawka: Thunbs up on Blue Nile here too- got engagement ring there and she loves it! Great customer service and a great deal for high quality.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
jurisenpai
April 7, 2009 6:14 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@punkrawka: Both my wedding and engagement rings are from Blue Nile. I also got all my bridesmaid's gifts and my husband's ring from them. And I got a very pretty pearl bracelet for Christmas this year from them as well.

My husband and I have been thrilled with their service and the quality of their items. We've recommended them to every couple we know!

Reply
\"user-pic\"
KStrike155
April 7, 2009 4:22 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@punkrawka: I will agree with this. I recently ordered a diamond off of Blue Nile and had the jewelry store where I bought my setting from take a look at it. They said that it would be appraised at around 35% more than what I paid.

They were incredible to deal with. When I found the diamond I liked I called them to put it on hold. They will put a complimentary hold on it for 3 days so no one snatches it up. I then called again and had them check if it was eye-clean (since I was buying SI1 instead of VS2). They took the time to call their supplier, and a few hours later they called back with the confirmation that the stone was clean. I then had them release the stone in their system so I could order it through their website and use FatWallet.com's cash back through BlueNile. This saved me around $140. I think it was somewhere around 3% cash back, which, when you're looking at a stone that could be thousands, is a lot of money! I had the stone shipped to my work (it's shipped in a non-descript box and fully insured) and the next day I received it. MAN was it sweet! Comes with an awesome folder for your certification, the ring box (even though I didn't order a ring) and a tension clasp for the stone. The diamond is brilliant!

When I took the stone to get looked at I got to look at it under the microscope. They told me that the stone is almost a VS2. :)

Here's what I learned:
- Cut is what you want to worry about most. I went for the ideal cut and boy does it sparkle! That's the first thing your future wife will notice, as well as her friends.
- Clarity: you would be hard-pressed to be able to see a difference between VS2 and SI1 by the naked eye. It's almost impossible. Save your money and go for VS2 and put the difference into the size of the stone.
- This is a bit more important than the clarity because it gives the stone its body.
- Buy online. The stores were so ridiculously overpriced that I couldn't bring myself to do it.

And seriously, to everyone saying don't buy diamonds: get out.

Justin, good luck!!

Reply
\"user-pic\"
bastion72
April 7, 2009 3:42 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@punkrawka: X2 on that. I ordered an engagement ring from them as well. No mounting fee, no tax, and 10% off the setting. Unfortunately the ring was not the optimal for my now fiancee. We ended up going to Jarads where she found the perfect ring for her. Tax, mounting, insurance...I spent $1000 less at Jareds but the diamond isn't nearly as high quality as Blue Nile. Still 1 carat, but not as sparkly.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
KStrike155
April 7, 2009 4:25 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@bastion72: Why didn't you keep the diamond from BlueNile and buy the mounting from Jared's, then have Jared's mount it?

That's what I'm doing... saved me $3000.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
MosesKabob
April 8, 2009 7:47 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@KStrike155: This is exactly what I did for my wife. Diamond from Blue Nile was about half what Jared would have charged me for the same stone, but I brought it in and bought the ring and had them mount it. No surprises and it looks great. Can't recommend BN enough.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
NeverLetMeDown
April 7, 2009 4:23 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@bastion72:


X3 on that. I have a good friend in the business, who got me a stone at his cost, and he was only a bit below what bluenile was charging for a similar stone.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
Frank Murphy
April 7, 2009 3:28 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

The whole diamond thing is a scam cooked up by Debeers to make money.

Reply
5 replies
\"user-pic\"
MsAnthropy
April 9, 2009 2:07 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Frank Murphy:

No shit? Seriously?

Stop the presses, this guy has an exclusive!!

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Megladon
April 7, 2009 5:23 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Frank Murphy:


This is exactly why me and my wife bought lab created diamonds for about a 25th of the cost of a natural diamond.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Fresh-Fest-1986
April 7, 2009 3:51 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Frank Murphy: I've heard that they aren't even really a girls best friend.


Lies on top of lies on top of lies.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
rpm773
April 7, 2009 3:45 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Frank Murphy: I hear you, pal!

Just like the whole soda thing was cooked up by Coca Cola to make money.

And the whole furniture thing was cooked up by furniture makers to make money.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Elcheecho
April 7, 2009 5:06 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@rpm773: well i like Coke because it tastes good, not because Coca-Cola and my friends tell me it tastes good.

Also, furniture keeps my ass off the floor without any help from the company's marketing. so while i agree that people who want diamonds should be able to buy them without grief or b.s., your analogy stinks.

Reply
","","","","
\"user-pic\"
Tambar
April 7, 2009 3:30 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Pawn shops (especially here in the South) have a great selection of diamond rings for cheap. I'm wearing a channel set band right now with 9 round .125 carat diamonds in it that we bought last Christmas for $150. The ring appraised for insurance at almost $1000. You might find a decent-sized stone or set of stones at a pawn shop in a ring you can swap out.

Reply
3 replies
\"user-pic\"
outinthedark
April 7, 2009 5:11 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Tambar: Exactly what I did. I created my own ring thanks to my 3D background and a local jeweler. The ring cost me about $400. The diamonds I bought from a pawn shop. About $300 worth. Got them appraised and set at the same jeweler. Sold back the rings and ended up paying around $600 for what is worth $1200+.

The setting is the most important part in my opinion.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
pecan 3.14159265
April 7, 2009 3:51 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Tambar: Practical, but ultimately terrible advice considering the occasion. It's one thing to research and save and wait for deals, it's a whole other thing to present the love of your life with someone's castoffs from at pawn shop.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Owen Ferguson
April 7, 2009 4:24 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@pecan 3.14159265: So hit up pawn shops, buy a few nice rings with a mix of awesome stones, pull the stones from the bands and have them re-set in a beautiful custom piece that will last a lifetime. If you're paranoid, cleanse the rocks in a bowl of salt under the light of a full moon before resetting. This shows much more care and initiative than picking a design out of a catalogue or a store's collection of pre-conceived designs.

Reply
","","
\"user-pic\"
mustng67
April 7, 2009 3:32 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

I used pricescope.com when I started researching diamonds. I bought my fiance's engagement ring from JamesAllen.com. They were very helpful when I made the purchase and the founder actually on the phone helping me. They local dealer didn't have the diamond I wanted so I found one myself and for a better price Users in the forum are also very helpful and will help you find what you want.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
Anonymous
April 7, 2009 3:33 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

I was into researching diamonds for a while and learned a lot about how to buy them and what to look for. What I became really interested in was the concept of \"blood diamonds,\" or diamonds whose mining and selling has contributed in some way to the political upheaval in the areas from which they are mined, usually in Africa. Often the mining and selling of diamonds in those areas leads to a lot of bloodshed (If you've seen the movie Blood Diamond with DiCaprio, you know what I mean.) Diamonds that do not qualify as blood diamonds need a Kimberly Certification.

If you're interested in buying a diamond that is guaranteed not to be a blood diamond (these are called \"conflict-free diamonds\"), there are some websites you can shop from:

Check out http://www.conflictfreediamonds.org/ for information about conflict-free diamonds

http://www.brilliantearth.com/ - Brilliant Earth has all conflict-free diamonds (they are mined in Canada rather than Africa) and they also have a really great search engine that lets you customize with ease.

If all else fails, just wikipedia \"conflict-free diamonds\" to get more info.

On top of all else, for me it's really important to know that my diamond isn't participating in some way in the poor quality of life for someone else. Check 'em out!

Reply
","","
\"user-pic\"
tedyc03
April 7, 2009 3:33 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

There may be some alternative traditions that you can co-opt in order to save money. Do some research, and you can probably find some very romantic ways to communicate love that don't require buying diamonds.

That said, my experience with buying jewelry is that a little bit goes a long way. Just because I can afford a large stone doesn't mean it will look good on whomever is wearing it.

Also, it's bad to go buy on credit just because the financing is 0% or something of the like. Jewelry is one of those non-necessities, and should always be bought with cash or not bought if you can't afford it. Do not borrow to buy an engagement ring! If you can't afford an engagement ring you sure as heck can't afford a wedding.

Reply
3 replies
\"user-pic\"
MsAnthropy
April 9, 2009 2:11 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

@tedyc03:

Hmm. We could afford all the engagement ring we wanted, and yet our wedding cost... I forget now, but certainly less than I paid for dinner last night.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
pecan 3.14159265
April 7, 2009 3:54 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@tedyc03: I disagree on the credit. If you can afford the ring, but don't want to carry a big bucket of cash, setting up a line of credit with 0% interest is a good idea. Also, some people don't have a high enough credit line to balance the cost/debt ratio.

My rule is that if the woman is petite, the ring will be small and the stone should be small to complement and fit the person. If the woman is tall, a larger stone will be proportional. A good way to save on this is to buy a cluster of small stones (much cheaper than one large stone) because the effect of dozens of small stones is more dramatic on a ring setting.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
1234tu
April 7, 2009 6:58 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@pecan 3.14159265: My rule is that if the woman is petite, the ring will be small and the stone should be small to complement and fit the person. If the woman is tall, a larger stone will be proportional.


Hmmm... the larger the woman is the larger a diamond she should be given??? Me thinks this is incorrect. It is an inverse relationship... heh....

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
ogremustcrush
April 7, 2009 3:34 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Buy diamonds, but only cheap man made ones. Natural diamonds are only priced so high due to the artificial scarcity the diamond cartels manufacture to maintain those high prices. Lab made diamonds can be made to be just as good if not better than anything you can find in nature, but are dramatically less expensive. They are the same thing, all a diamond is is crystalline carbon!

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
Canadian Impostor
April 7, 2009 3:34 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

I bought an engagement ring from Brilliant Earth, they sell conflict free diamonds and have a nice little selection tool on their website where you can sort diamonds by quality, color, size, price, etc.

The ring showed up quickly and it's really nice, so I'd recommend giving them a look.

Reply
","","
\"user-pic\"
edwardso
April 7, 2009 3:34 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Moissanite looks like diamonds but is less expensive. Also, vintage jewelry can be less expensive (and more unique)

Reply
3 replies
\"user-pic\"
Anonymous
April 7, 2009 6:56 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@edwardso:

Vintage or antique, totally - you can get twice the diamond for the same price and you can always have it remounted, though some of the antique mountings are exquisite. Buy your diamond, work with a local, independent jeweler on a design and you will have a one of a kind ring that no one else has. I am actually a jeweler and the mark up on diamonds is insane.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
LastVigilante
April 7, 2009 3:45 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@edwardso: I agree on Moissanite. I was looking into that for an engagement ring for my girlfriend until we decided on an Emerald.

All Moissanite is man-made, based on the composition of a natural element found only in meteorites and deep in the Earth's mantle. What I dislike about it is that only one company manufactures Moissanite (Charles & Colvard, Ltd.) because they patented the process, giving themselves a monopoly on the gemstone, which feels a lot like what DeBeers is to diamonds. However, yes, moissanite is less expensive than diamonds (but not cheap), is almost as hard and has more vibrant light brilliance and since its man-made is conflict free.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Anonymous
April 7, 2009 4:14 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@LastVigilante: Emeralds are far too brittle (because of their structure) for an every-day ring such as an engagement ring. If you do get one, be sure it's fully insured because it will chip and/or crack and you'll probably have to replace the stone on occasion.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
Cid29
April 7, 2009 3:34 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Try to find a local jeweler that provides independent certification so that you know exactly the carat and color of your diamond, then you can do a quick internet search to see the price of comparable diamonds. Most mall chains and other ilk sell their diamonds as falling into a certain range of color and carat grades. The fine print states that the carat and color may be off by 5- 10%. This allows them to sell cheaper diamonds at a higher price. There is a chain in Texas \"Americus Diamonds\" who i have bought from many times, they provide excelent customer service and great prices

Reply
","","
\"user-pic\"
nakedscience
April 7, 2009 3:35 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Diamonds are lame.

Reply
","","","
\"user-pic\"
darthzaphod
April 7, 2009 3:35 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

(I apologize but this will be a double-post - I accidentally posted it as anonymous the first time so that will be popping up soon.)
_____

I was into researching diamonds for a while and learned a lot about how to buy them and what to look for. What I became really interested in was the concept of \"blood diamonds,\" or diamonds whose mining and selling has contributed in some way to the political upheaval in the areas from which they are mined, usually in Africa. Often the mining and selling of diamonds in those areas leads to a lot of bloodshed (If you've seen the movie Blood Diamond with DiCaprio, you know what I mean.) Diamonds that do not qualify as blood diamonds need a Kimberly Certification.

If you're interested in buying a diamond that is guaranteed not to be a blood diamond (these are called \"conflict-free diamonds\"), there are some websites you can shop from:

Check out [www.conflictfreediamonds.org] for information about conflict-free diamonds

[www.brilliantearth.com] - Brilliant Earth has all conflict-free diamonds (they are mined in Canada rather than Africa) and they also have a really great search engine that lets you customize with ease.

If all else fails, just wikipedia \"conflict-free diamonds\" to get more info.

On top of all else, for me it's really important to know that my diamond isn't participating in some way in the poor quality of life for someone else. Check 'em out!

Reply
5 replies
\"user-pic\"
KStrike155
April 7, 2009 4:24 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@darthzaphod: Every US distributor of diamonds is require by law to sell only conflict-free diamonds. This is a moot point.

The problem arises when the certificates are forged. Noone can guarantee anything about your diamonds, really.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Ratty
April 7, 2009 6:05 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@KStrike155: Then how the hell is DeBeers in business? Almost all diamonds are conflict diamonds.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
HunterZ
April 7, 2009 4:38 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@KStrike155: Cite a source for that claim regarding US lay please.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
HunterZ
April 7, 2009 4:38 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@HunterZ: Er law, sorry (WTB edit button).

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Matt Palmer
April 7, 2009 3:48 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@darthzaphod: Do some googling nobody can guarantee a conflict free diamond, i forget where i read this and the number is pulled out of my butt as I cant find the article (i got to the diamond article thru the comments at 'thesimpledollar' article on frugal engagements) but 'experts' were claiming something in the range of 35% of kimberly certificates are forged, and additionally some blood diamonds can be certified conflict free if they are smuggled and sold through the proper channels (laundered diamonds). So basically no matter where you buy them from you risk funding bloodshed. If you really care about the whole conflict diamond thing a better alternative is something other than diamonds.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
HunterZ
April 7, 2009 3:45 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@darthzaphod: If they still pass through DeBeers then it's honestly not any better. Even if they're mined by Canadians in Canada, if it's still a DeBeers operation then it's still giving money to a company that is willing to use that money in other places to fund blood diamonds and to support its cartel in general.

Reply
","","","","","","
\"user-pic\"
snowburnt
April 7, 2009 3:37 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

www.dirtcheapdiamonds.com

Reply
1 replies
\"user-pic\"
snowburnt
April 7, 2009 3:43 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@snowburnt: dirtcheapdiamonds.com has very competitive prices on diamonds. If you get the diamond there and you have a jeweler you can save quite a bit.

Also, if you can find a good jeweler they might be able to give you a deal, just compare it to dirtcheapdiamonds.

I had a local guy that does custom made stuff with lifetime cleaning and resizings who knocked off a lot from similar settings at debeers and other large chains.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
LegoMan322
April 7, 2009 3:37 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

I would suggest taking her with you. The reason for that is you know what she is going to want. My wife and I went shopping, and since she was there, she not only helped me pay for the ring, she was able to get a larger one than if I just did it myself.

Reply
4 replies
\"user-pic\"
Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!)
April 7, 2009 5:04 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@LegoMan322: I agree.

Also, jewelers don't often tell you this, but stones can be graded by QUALITY of cut. A lot of the stones at the mass-market retailers are badly cut and so don't sparkle as much as a well-cut stone. You're more likely to find well-cut stones at smaller shops ... where you're paying for the expertise, but you may also be getting a \"nicer\" diamond for the extra price as well.

And that's true of any faceted gem, not just diamonds.

(Also, coming in just under a size point saves a lot of money ... a .9 carat stone doesn't look much different from a 1 carat stone, but the price differential is HUGE because that \"1 carat\" mark gives you bragging rights.)

Reply
\"user-pic\"
pecan 3.14159265
April 7, 2009 5:09 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Eyebrows McGee (on Twitter: LPetelle): I specifically looked for something that went under a size point.

Ohh! Also, you'll save money on the gold (more in the case of a wedding band) if your fiancee has small fingers. I saved about $200 off my wedding band because I wear a 5.5.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
pecan 3.14159265
April 7, 2009 3:56 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@LegoMan322: Definitely. You can not only get her size, but also the things that she likes. The most important thing is communication - you both need to talk about the things you value the most in the piece of jewelry, and find a good starting point. If it's price for you, she should understand that $1,000 is NOT a minimum, it's a maximum. If for her, it's quality, the jeweler should be able to find you something with absolutely great quality, and find you the biggest one you can go with without sacrificing cost.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
LegoMan322
April 7, 2009 4:49 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@pecan 3.14159265: $1,000? Have you ever shopped for a ring or was that just an example? If not..what jeweler do you go to?

Reply
\"user-pic\"
pecan 3.14159265
April 7, 2009 5:01 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@LegoMan322: Darn that submit button! I went to Jared (stupid commercials!) but I found a ring with good clarity in the style that I wanted. My husband was happy that I found something, and that it was a decent price (our budget was $1,000). The ring isn't one large diamond (I didn't want a solitaire), it's several small diamonds in a pave setting forming a square, with four slightly larger diamonds inside that. The jeweler said I could have the four in the center replaced with one large one, but that would've made it at least $1,00 more. I liked the symmetry of having four diamonds.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
pecan 3.14159265
April 7, 2009 4:59 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@LegoMan322: My engagement ring was $999 before tax.

Reply
","","
\"user-pic\"
HunterZ
April 7, 2009 3:38 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

I'm about to get engaged, but neither my girlfriend nor myself are interested in buying socially-irresponsible DeBeers blood diamonds. I really like the idea of man-made diamonds and have heard they're getting to be really good quality (prompting DeBeers to laser-inscribe their diamonds so that you know they're \"real\"). Unfortunately, I have no idea where I might be able to find a reputable dealer of man-made diamonds, since they are still frowned upon by most people for some reason. Anyone have any ideas?

Reply
8 replies
\"user-pic\"
DrMorison
April 7, 2009 10:43 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@HunterZ: check out bluenile.com
all manmade. nice though.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Gabrielle Sheinberg
April 8, 2009 8:25 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@DrMorison: I don't know where you got the idea that blue nile dealt in man made diamonds but they don't carry synthetics

Reply
\"user-pic\"
tellervision
April 7, 2009 5:16 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@HunterZ:


I learned about lannyte from a local independent jeweler when I wanted to replace the stone in my grandma's setting but couldn't afford a diamond. They make a variety of synthetic stones including diamonds and have a lifetime guarantee. I would think you could call them for local distributors.


[www.lannyte.com]

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Jessy Irwin
April 7, 2009 5:05 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@HunterZ: Manmade diamonds are an option, but they are easily detectable because of their different mechanisms of reflecting certain types of light and heat... if your girlfriend is interested in a colored diamond, these are not the way to go. Try doing a search through the GIA website.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
satoru
April 7, 2009 5:00 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@HunterZ: Not to rain on your parade but not wanting 'blood diamonds' is now the diamond industry version of organic food. You'll be paying EVEN MORE to make you 'feel good' for absolutely nothing in return. Do you really need to pay another extra premium on top of the already insane premium diamonds have.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Ratty
April 7, 2009 6:14 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@satoru: Provided the diamons aren't blood diamons, no, it's different from organic vs. non-organic. A closer comparison is buying cruelty-free products, like free-ranged cattle or products not tested on animals. You're paying a premium so someone doesn't suffer.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Anonymous
April 7, 2009 4:54 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

I got around the DeBeers dilemma by purchasing a used ring and having the diamond reset. You've got to figure that a diamond is the worlds most recyclable thing right and the fact that you are taking away new diamond sales has got to make you smile.The setting I got was beat but the diamond was fantastic. I bought it off of a private sale through ebay retailer. I bought it using my credit card so if it wasn't exactly what was promised I could use their fraud services to recover funds and I had it certified when I received it. You can buy a much bigger rock when you and you're girlfriend are okay with it being second hand too. I got a Tiffany certified diamond for 30% of the current market value and had it reset for only $500 by Tiffany in platinum. This I still don't get as Blue Nile charged $1k for settings at the time but I was happy with final result and so was my wife. It's not for everyone but it worked for me.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
JulesNoctambule
April 7, 2009 4:20 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@HunterZ: My husband and I looked into those when we got engaged (went with a family heirloom in the end) and at that time, the manufacturer's website had a listing of official retailers.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
wildhare
April 7, 2009 3:39 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

If you are going to spend an arm and a leg on a nice rock for your loved one I suggest you forgo the boring diamonds and purchase more rare gems. Depending on his/her favorite color you can always go with real emerals, tanzanite is quite popular, aquamarine is light enough like a diamond, rubies, alexandrite (now there is some legitimate value for your money), padparadscha sapphire, etc.

Like another poster said, the value is inflated artificially. Diamonds are the most common mineral aside from metals and quartz. If you spend so much, you might as well get your moneys real value and buy something unique.

Unless of course you got a generic fiance... *shrug*

Reply
2 replies
\"user-pic\"
edwardso
April 7, 2009 3:41 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@wildhare11: I get your point, but I don't think you (or anyone else) should assume that because a woman likes diamonds she is \"generic\"

Reply
\"user-pic\"
HogwartsAlum
April 7, 2009 3:53 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@edwardso:

Despite the stereotypical assumption, it's a good idea. Then you can get the stone in a setting with smaller diamonds, if you still want some.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
Anonymous
April 7, 2009 3:39 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

I went to a local-ish place (it was about 90 miles away, but well worth the drive). Spent a few hours with the gemologist there who was very enthusiastic about showing me every single diamond they had in the store, under a microscope, so I could see what the imperfections looked like. He was really great about the whole process. Definitely see if you can find somebody within reasonable driving distance that's really enthusiastic about gemstones in general.

Not that it really makes a difference, but I wound up settling on a sapphire set in a custom-ish ring. Worked out well for all involved parties. http://www.raru.com if you're near Buffalo at all. (I know, their website is a disaster, but they're great people.)

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
Anonymous
April 7, 2009 3:41 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

If you're going to buy a diamond, do realize that you will be paying far more than the intrinsic of the diamond, and will mostly be paying for someone setting into a ring or such. You will never recoup the costs of the diamond, so if you are thinking of using it as an investment instrument, this is a bad call. Pretty jewelry yes, item of value, not really.

Also, beware the \"conflict-free diamonds\" scam. \"Blood Diamond\" was savaged for its misrepresentations, and anyone bringing it up in a good light is either ignorant, or less likely here, trying to scam you.. Very very few diamonds were \"conflict diamonds,\" and you may be paying a premium for some lefty feel-good scam. If they're cheaper, fine, but don't pay a penny extra.

Reply
","","","","","","","","
\"user-pic\"
exploded
April 7, 2009 3:42 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

I purchased an engagement ring from Tiffany's (overpriced, I know...but the setting is something that I couldn't find anywhere else, believe me I tried)


Don't try negotiating with them. They wouldn't even attempt it.

Reply
2 replies
\"user-pic\"
pecan 3.14159265
April 7, 2009 3:57 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@exploded: Jared won't negotiate either. But that doesn't bother me because after walking into several different jewelers where I was either ignored or treated like a child, I walked into Jared and was immediately offered water, tea and coffee and when I told them what I was interested in, they didn't try to divert me, they didn't try to talk to me about financing, they just showed me the damn jewelery, and I got exactly what I wanted.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
exploded
April 7, 2009 5:52 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@pecan 3.14159265: Yeah, Tiffany was GREAT. Our sales person was immediately available. She was extremely helpful and knowledgable. She even sent a hand written thank you letter after the ring purchase.


That's probably the reason why we went back and purchased the wedding bands there, also. Their prices are high, but if you're willing to have a smaller diamond, you can find something reasonable. A lot of times a smaller diamond looks better than a massive gawdy rock, anyway.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
DrMorison
April 7, 2009 10:45 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@exploded: Not to mention that if you are basically buying an item that it priced artificially to begin with, might as well go with Tiffany so your gal knows that you think she's worth going to Tiffany.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
pecan 3.14159265
April 7, 2009 6:25 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@exploded: Go figure, I got that after going to Swarovski for crystal jewelry. Handwritten notes, and gift wrapping.

Reply
","","","
\"user-pic\"
rpm773
April 7, 2009 3:43 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

I got the info about the \"4 Cs\" from the internet and the chain-based diamond store before I figured out the guys I was going to to buy from. He's a local guy and we talked for about 90 minutes about his business and about diamonds. It was interesting stuff.

The most interesting thing he said was that there's a range where you get the most bang for your buck. The law of diminishing returns applies the depending on what you want to spend.

Eventually I figured out about what I wanted, and he ran up to New York the next week to go pick it up.

I was quite pleased with going local. I probably could have saved if I had bought from the mall or the internet, but I kept the money in the community.

Reply
2 replies
\"user-pic\"
Clamps
April 7, 2009 3:59 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@rpm773:


I purchased mine through a similar arrangement. I knew what type of diamond I wanted, and what I wanted to spend. After rationalizing those two features, the guy brought in several diamonds from Vancouver, and we looked at them.


The \"buying local\" appeal also made a big difference.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
DrMorison
April 7, 2009 10:48 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Clamps: I attempted to purchase a stone locally. The jeweler was gonna charge me an extra grand if I wanted a \"cert\" but he assured me that wouldn't be necessary. And that certs weren't worth having.

Reply
","","
\"user-pic\"
Skankingmike
April 7, 2009 3:44 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

I bought my now wife a diamond engagement ring about 4 years ago. I went to Blue Nile.com to purchase it as you can purchase loose diamonds from them and then pick the setting.

From research That I did, Getting a .85 or .9 carat is cheaper than a 1 carat diamond by a lot. The name 1 carat alone is what you're paying for. You'll see significant savings there.

Secondly you will notice a difference in a D rated and G rated for color don't skimp on color just goto a retail jeweler where you will see the yellowing of the diamond first hand. however where you can take some money off is finding a VVS-1 or VVS-2 diamond rather than getting a flawless or nearly Flawless diamond.

I bought a 5000 dollar diamond and i have it insured for 11k as that's what it's appraisal is. Insurance is probably a good idea when you don't own a home or your renters insurance doesn't cover it. (or if you're afraid your wife will lose it)

That's been my experience and suggestions

Reply
","","
\"user-pic\"
talldude
April 7, 2009 3:45 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

I bought my wife's engagement ring at Tiffany, which of course most people will say is one of the most overpriced jewelry stores. However, they have unrivaled quality and the salespeople are well informed. You will pay more here, but you will rest assured that you are getting a quality piece. Plus when my wife saw that little blue box the expression on her face was one that I will never forget, and she adores the ring.

Sometimes an over-the-top splurge is worthwhile. Getting engaged is one of those times.

Reply
","","","","","
\"user-pic\"
Tuuurd_Ferguson
April 7, 2009 3:46 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

How about going with Sapphires? The British Royal Family used/uses sapphire as the main stone in a bunch of their engagement rings. It's also coveted by the future Mrs. Tuuurd_Ferguson. Nuff said.

Reply
3 replies
\"user-pic\"
zibby
April 7, 2009 4:18 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Tuuurd_Ferguson: I sort of hear you - I just got one in each to cover the bases. Simple but effective.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Julia789
April 7, 2009 3:54 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Tuuurd_Ferguson: Sapphires are beautiful. I like the idea of giving various gemstones instead of diamonds.


My husband gave me an Alexandrite ring (our son's birthstone) for an anniversary gift. I prefer wearing it to our wedding set! I get so many compliments on it. It's not a \"generic diamond\" like everyone else has. It's unique.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
pecan 3.14159265
April 7, 2009 3:59 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Julia789: I have diamonds in my ring, but it's in an art deco type of setting, and it's exactly what I wanted. I'm a traditionalist in a sense...there's something about what's been done in the past that appeals to me, but I wanted a ring that had an interesting look. And I didn't want a solitaire.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Julia789
April 7, 2009 6:54 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@pecan 3.14159265: That sounds really pretty. I personally like \"antique\" look diamond rings (and gemstones) and other types of unique settings.


I actually have a \"generic solitaire diamond\" engagement ring myself, but I don't wear it much, all these years later. I prefer to wear the anniversary ring with my kid's birthstone, it's more emotional and unique.


We've talked about turning the old engagement ring into a pendant, or other piece of jewelry. Or working it into a new setting, perhaps as a future anniversary gift.

Reply
","","
\"user-pic\"
jak312
April 7, 2009 3:47 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

I bought the stone for my wife's engagement ring through [www.niceice.com]. In addition to a friendly staff that was easy to work with, they have tons of information on their website on how the diamond grading process works. Their prices seem fairly reasonable as well (at least put next to the rest of the market). I was extremely happy with my purchase.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
edouble
April 7, 2009 3:48 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

So what ever happened with that DeBeers settlement??

I read two books before buying my wife's Diamond.
\"How To Buy A Diamond: Insider Secrets For Getting Your Money's Worth\"

and another book about the history of Diamonds. Great Book!
Diamond: The History of a Cold-Blooded Love Affair

What I ended up buying was an almost perfect cut Princess, D color, with a \"fleck\" inside. The clarity imperfection dropped the price dramatically, but acts as an identifiable mark. The cut and color really make it sparkle and give it the \"fire.\"

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
mac-phisto
April 7, 2009 3:48 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

if you live near nyc & you have some connections to a particular community, there are places you can go to find a beautiful selection of diamonds well below market rates.

unfortunately, i can't really offer more information than this, but afaik, it's entirely on the up-&-up & you won't be sacrificing quality for price. i would suggest that if you have a close relationship with someone who might know what i'm talking about, that would be where to start your search. \"who you know\" is going to determine whether this is even an option for you.

Reply
2 replies
\"user-pic\"
exploded
April 7, 2009 5:55 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@mac-phisto: Hmm...maybe it's worth it to find a connection in Diamond Thieves Local 324 union. :-)


Since you're being so cryptic, I can only assume that's what you mean.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
mac-phisto
April 7, 2009 9:22 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@exploded: it is pretty cryptic, isn't it?

i was trying to be as culturally sensitive as possible - probably to a fault. here's the thing: nyc is home to particular ethnic groups that have large dealings in the diamond industry worldwide & there's a handful of communities in the 5 boroughs that have direct dealings with their respective diamond houses abroad. if you know somebody that knows somebody, you can often score a pretty good deal.

if you know a bit about the international diamond trade, i think you can figure out where i'm going with this.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Gabrielle Sheinberg
April 8, 2009 8:41 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@mac-phisto: As a Jew (I'm guessing Jews are who you are referring to here, yes?) I find your discomfort amusing. I also think your advice, which seems to consist of \"find a Jew and work your connections\" is a bit theatrical and assumptive

Reply
","","
\"user-pic\"
Caleb Garvey
April 7, 2009 3:50 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

I also used blue nile for both my wife's engagement ring and wedding band. Had a wonderful experience and both appraised (independently) for about 30% more than I paid. It is pretty nerve racking to have a $5k ring floating through the fedex system for 2 days, but I didn't have any problems.

Reply
","","
\"user-pic\"
Rachacha
April 7, 2009 3:51 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

First, seek out recommendations of reputable stores from friends.


Next, I would suggest going to some of the mall jewlery stores for a brief intorduction to Diamonds, and to see what you can get from them in your price range.


Then visit the local shops armed with the knowledge you gained from the mall stores. You might also consider looking for a \"Jewlery District\" in your city or neighboring city. Philadelphia has a large district, and all of the stores are competing for your business. It can be overwhelming going to one of these areas as the clerks are standing out on the curb to get you to come in to their shop, and once inside, the experience is somewhat like buying a new car where you haggle over the price, but you can find some good deals in these areas.

Reply
1 replies
\"user-pic\"
Julia789
April 7, 2009 11:14 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Rachacha: In some jewelry districts, you must be careful to avoid a switch. When they take your purchase in the back to \"put it in the box\" it may be switched for a lower quality item of similar appearance. Always have them put it in the box/bag in front of you. And make sure the receipt they give you is detailed and includes the store name and address, so they don't deny selling it to you if you return later on with a problem.


Of course this could happen (and probably does happen) in many stores. But I've only heard from people who it's happened to in jewelery district shops. (In this case NYC.)

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
Anonymous
April 7, 2009 3:51 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

I agree with everyone else who says \"don't buy diamonds.\" Diamonds are a commodity where the price is artificially inflated by a cartel, the resale value is very low, and the extraction process is ethically questionable at best.

However, it's probably not totally up to you, so if you do need to buy a diamond, one place to look would be Apollo diamonds. https://www.shopapollo.com/ These are synthetic diamonds that have as good if not better color/purity than ordinary diamonds. The prices are not incredibly cheap, mostly because they have a patent (read monopoly) on the production process, but at least you'll feel better ethically.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
Anonymous
April 7, 2009 3:51 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Buy your diamond online. I bought a diamond ring from Amazon that appraised for 3 times (!) what I purchased it for.

But, before you buy a diamond online sight unseen, you need to know the 4 Cs: cut, color, clarity, and carat. However, your knowledge can't stop there. You need to learn about things like table percentage, depth percentage, pavilion angle, crown angle, etc. By learning these things and what they mean you can actually determine how much more one diamond will sparkle over another diamond. It's freaky, but math and science are your friend in this case.

Plus, if you are willing to dig down that deep you remove some of the emotion from the purchase, and by removing emotion you remove a huge chance that you will get suckered.

The wikipedia article on diamonds is a great place to get started, but you shouldn't stop there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_(gemstone)

Reply
","","
\"user-pic\"
sir_eccles
April 7, 2009 3:52 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

You are buying a ring not a diamond. Now before everyone jumps on me, I'm not saying don't buy a diamond. I am saying there is more to it than a chunk of glass. Your lady friend (I assume it is an engagement or wedding ring for a lady) has to wear this on her finger somehow. So you have to consider ring and diamond.

When I went ring shopping, I took my now wife with me and we chose rings together. We actually ended up with a very nice ring that happened to only have some very small diamond chips rather than a big rock. It was the design of the ring that counted more to her and as we chose together I knew it was what she wanted. None of that rubbish about taking rings back to get bigger rocks put in (rolls eyes).

I recommend choosing together, preferably in a local independent jeweler that might have work by local artists or antique second hand pieces. Avoid the big chains like the plague.

Reply
4 replies
\"user-pic\"
Julia789
April 7, 2009 11:19 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@sir_eccles: Excellent advice! Many women care more for the design of the band and setting, and thought and artistry put into it, than the diamond itself.


A gorgeous piece of jewelry is a true work of art. The value of the materials is not as important as the finished piece.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
morganlh85
April 7, 2009 4:23 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@sir_eccles: I totally agree here. I'm a designer, so to me the design of the ring itself was way more important than the stone that was in it. We ended up spending the bulk of the money getting a unique ring design from a local jewelry designer, and putting a CZ in it for an extra $30. It was way worth it to me, and I'm 100% happy with my ring.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
mac-phisto
April 7, 2009 4:13 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@sir_eccles: that's actually excellent advice. you're not necessarily going to save money, but what's more important? having a beautiful stone or a beautiful ring? i have a friend who spent close to $10,000 for a wedding band/engangement ring combined set that is absolutely gorgeous. i don't know that she got a deal on what she bought, but she's certainly happy with it - isn't that what's important?

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Clamps
April 7, 2009 4:02 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@sir_eccles:


I was also given the advice that diamond colour really matters when buying white gold. An H colour diamond may look clear when mounted in yellow gold, but may look a bit coloured when mounted in white gold.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
HungryTuna
April 7, 2009 3:53 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Tiffany & Co was fantastic!


Yes I know I overpaid for the \"Brand-Name\" but she still gets compliments (4 years later). Also because it was purchased at Tiffany's my insurance co appraised it for the full value (with Tax). We also enjoyed complimentary champaign, et al...


A close friend of mine bought his ring at a local store and packaged it in a Tiffany Box. Yes his ring was cheaper and bigger but I bet she knows..


Also the blue box alo

Reply
2 replies
\"user-pic\"
pecan 3.14159265
April 7, 2009 4:01 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@HungryTuna: Passing off a ring that isn't from Tiffany's in a Tiffany's box is kind of ridiculous and vain. Tiffany's usually only uses platinum... most people can't tell the difference, but on a brand new ring, sometimes you can.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
MoreFunThanToast
April 7, 2009 4:26 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@pecan 3.14159265: I've had a friend brought the a supposedly real Tiffany's bracelet t the store to have it cleaned only to find out it was a fake.
If you can't afford it, at least be honest about it.

Reply
","","","","","
\"user-pic\"
Anonymous
April 7, 2009 3:54 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

This may have been touched on by other people, but to be more explicit...

When my father was looking for the ring for his fiance, he bought the stone as a piece of estate jewellery (Used diamond? Who cares. It's been in the ground for eons.) and had it put into a new setting. I think he said the \"new\" ring was appraised for significantly more than he paid (I think he said $900?).

Reply
","","
\"user-pic\"
AgentTuttle
April 7, 2009 3:54 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Just cut out the middle-man and buy a severed baby arm. You may never know how many children had their arms hacked off working to find that diamond of yours, so just buy piece of mind, buy the arm.

Reply
","","
\"user-pic\"
Clamps
April 7, 2009 3:55 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

1) Know the language: Just like car dealers can confuse the laymen with useless jargon, jewellers can do the same. Knowing the 4 Cs is a decent primer. Having an idea what each of the Cs mean, and how they affect the quality and price of the diamond is better.


2) Cuts make the diamond shine: Incremental changes in diamond clarity above SI (slightly included) level, or colour above G/H have no effect on the diamond to the naked eye. Your fiancée's friends will be more concerned with the sparkle than the microscopic inclusions only visible w/ a loupe. Don't sacrifice on cut versus other gradings.


3) Not all inclusions are similar: My fiancée's diamond is graded SI2, due to a clear \"feather\" in the diamond. A diamond with a black spot in the middle would be graded similar. The two diamonds technically have the same grading, yet one is visually superior to the other. Have the jeweller show you the inclusions and defects in the diamond you're buying, and compare to other stones. Also, an inclusion on the side of the diamond is preferable to an inclusion in the middle.


4) There are significant increases in price after certain carat plateaus (.25, .5, .75, 1.0, &c.). A .65 diamond to a naked, untrained eye (your fiancée, her friends, family, &c.) looks about the same as a .75. A .9 looks about the same as a 1.0. You can save significantly on a diamond by choosing a slightly smaller gem. You'll be showing off the ring, not the certificate.

Reply
","","","","","","
\"user-pic\"
Anonymous
April 7, 2009 3:59 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

One more vote for online -- it's a diamond, it doesn't matter where it comes from, and you'll get way more options like that. The \"education\" section on niceice.com is good (if you want sparkly, you want ideal cut, for instance). I got the stone from loosediamonds.com (now defunct) but bluenile.ca looks like it has a good engine for finding what you want.

As someone else said, though -- if this is going in a ring, it's the ring that matters as much as the stone. If you want a local jeweller to put someone else's stone in a setting, that's fine, but make sure that's possible first.

boonerings.com makes _lovely_ rings if you want something to show off a stone; http://www.boonerings.com/htmpages/fusion.htm is my wife's engagement ring. (I'm not associated with them, just a happy customer)

Reply
","","","","","
\"user-pic\"
Anonymous
April 7, 2009 4:01 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

From my diamond buying experience last fall when I became engaged1) GIA reports are the gold standard of ratings. Don't buy a diamond without one. From what I have read and what the guy I bought my diamond from (I went through an independent dealer) is that most rating agencies are not as reliable as GIA2) Skimp on clarity. I bought an SI2 and you really can't see the occlusions in the diamond. Sure, I can see them through a 10x microscope, but I don't carry one of those with me all the time. Can't see them with the naked eye. Max out on colour and carat as that is what everyone will notice3) Don't look at the diamond under store lights. Try to take a look at it under more natural light if possible. That's a true test of how it will sparkle4) Brilliant cut is a rip off. Go to bluenile.ca and compare equivalent size, colour, etc for a brilliant cut vs princess cut. Not only that, but a cut other than brilliant usually stands out since most people buy brilliant cuts

Reply
","","","","
\"user-pic\"
faust1200
April 7, 2009 4:03 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

If you would like to discuss why not to buy diamonds, I have started a thread on the Forums. [consumerist.proboards.com]

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
Anonymous
April 7, 2009 4:04 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Diamonds are an affront in every respect, from how they're mined to how they're sold. Want an alternative? A simple band for both of you... It's the meaning of the rings that matter, not the goddamn color and clarity.

Any person who demands or requires a diamond isn't worth marrying.

Reply
","","
\"user-pic\"
quagmire0
April 7, 2009 4:06 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

My best advice is to TAKE YOUR TIME! Go to several shops and look at lots of diamonds under the loop. Be absolutely sure this is the diamond you want. Also, be sure to receive a certification and a map of the flaws in the diamond. When you go to pick it up, verify that it is the same diamond you picked out before.

Reply
1 replies
\"user-pic\"
Julia789
April 7, 2009 11:24 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@quagmire0: Good point! Many people have suffered a \"switch\" and pick up an inferior diamond. They show you a nice one under the loop, and then put a cloudy one in the ring you take home.


If you are going to go for the diamond, make sure the one you choose and pay for is the one you take home.


And check again if you take it to be resized, repaired or reset! A switch could happen at any time.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
CharityCaecus
April 7, 2009 4:06 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Buy a lab-made diamond and use the money you save to buy the movie blood diamond.....

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
Papercutninja
April 7, 2009 4:09 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

I bought my fiancee's engagement ring at Mondera.com. They look to be based out of the Diamond District in NYC, so i felt better about buying from there.

Simple setting that was inexpensive but still nice, so i was able to pour all the remaining cash into the stone itself. My opinion? If you're buying it as a symbol of your love and all that stuff, buy the biggest, colorless stone you can find. Most clarity/flaws can't be seen by the naked eye. The appraisal that we have on the stone points out exactly where the flaws are, but neither one of us can even begin to see where they are.

If you're buying it as an \"investment\", then you should look for something that has less flaws.

My opinion? Most girls just want the biggest rock they can find. If your chick is concerned about how \"perfect\" or how much the stone is worth monetarily, you should maybe reconsider...

Reply
1 replies
\"user-pic\"
Julia789
April 7, 2009 11:32 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Papercutninja: We know a lady at work who has a GIANT diamond solitaire. HUGE. Must be like 4 carats. It's ridiculous. However, it's clouded with brownish tint in various places. Like murky water. Even from a few feet away, it's a huge rock but it's a huge UGLY rock! It doesn't even look like a brown diamond or champagne as some call it. It just looks like a dirty diamond! It doesn't even sparkle when the sun is beaming down on it full force.


If I was to pick a diamond, I'd rather have a smaller one that looked clear and sparkled a bit than a big dull ugly one. However, it would not need to be perfect or completely clear - just \"shiny.\" For that purpose, a CZ will do LOL. I guess I'm like a magpie. I like the shiny. However, I do like less expensive gemstones, much to my husband's relief.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
Skybolt
April 7, 2009 4:12 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

The important thing about an engagement ring is the engagement, not the cost or rarity of the materials or the durability of the stone. The ring is symbolic of the couple, their relationship, and their future. It can be anything you want, and personally I think it should reflect the people involved. This means it could be anything from platinum to iron, and from diamonds to gravel, and in any sort of design. It doesn't even have to be a ring.

Personally, I think that spending a bunch of money on jewelery is unwise, especially for a average young couple starting out. Some people drop thousands of dollars on these things. That's money that could go toward a car or a house or food or school. Men feel pressured to spend this money, because some women judge men based on the size of the rock he is willing to provide. I am not as familiar with the pressures on women due to my gender, but it seems to me that many women feel that their relationship, and their partner's worthiness, can be evaluated to some degree by an engagement ring. It's demeaning to everyone and only good for the diamond industry and jewelery stores. Spending money on a diamond is not an indicator of masculinity and a marriage is not a purchase.

Throw out all your assumptions about what's appropriate and buy something that looks like your heart feels.

Reply
1 replies
\"user-pic\"
Clamps
April 7, 2009 5:08 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Skybolt:\"Men feel pressured to spend this money, because some women judge men based on the size of the rock he is willing to provide.\"


In one way, it does show a woman that you are able to save up and buy something of high value, demonstrating financial ability.


Of course, you can finance anything these days, so you're also able to show your fiancee that you can acquire crippling debt with the best of them.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
Luckwouldhaveit
April 7, 2009 4:12 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

If you're open to an emerald as a diamond alternative, here's a great place to get one with history - shipwrecked off the Florida Keys in 1622.

[www.newworldtreasures.com]

Reply
","","
\"user-pic\"
Owen Ferguson
April 7, 2009 4:14 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

The best rule is:

Don't buy your stones and your bands from the same person. Get your rocks first, on line if necessary, and have them set by someone local who you can trust to do it right. resize. etc. if needed.

Also, a big diamond says only \"I care enough about you to waste a bunch of our money & future happiness on a highly depreciable chunk of carbon.\" If you really want to impress her, buy her a ruby, to illustrate to her how much rarer she is than the trashy middle-american bling slut.

Reply
","","","","","
\"user-pic\"
opsomath
April 7, 2009 4:19 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

I purchased my wife's engagement ring from Blue Nile. It's sapphire-centric, but has two quarter-carat diamonds as well. We are very happy with it, and as far as returns they seem to be the Newegg of jewelry. Definitely the lowbrow option, but I think the ring is beautiful.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
JulesNoctambule
April 7, 2009 4:19 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Buy an older estate diamond and avoid blood diamonds. Conflict never looks good on anyone. Or, better yet, make sure the intended recipient actually wants a diamond. My engagement ring was a family heirloom but I still want to swap it out for a nice old sapphire.

Reply
","","","","","","","","","
\"user-pic\"
oneliketadow
April 7, 2009 4:24 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Don't buy one. My wife never wears her engagement ring anymore.

Reply
1 replies
\"user-pic\"
pecan 3.14159265
April 7, 2009 5:10 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@oneliketadow: So? That's your case, not the case of millions of other people.

Reply
","","
\"user-pic\"
pop rox
April 7, 2009 4:24 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

The best way to be sure you are getting what you pay for is to buy a stone that has been certified buy a reputable gem lab. the GIA (Gemological Inst of Am), has a great tool on their web-site that explains the 4-C's of buying a diamond; color, carat weight, and clarity. these factors are what determines the overall value of a diamond. there are also online resources to compare prices once you have found a diamond (based on the 4-c's) that is right for you.

Reply
","","","","","","
\"user-pic\"
Saboth
April 7, 2009 4:29 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

I got my engagement ring from Adiamor.com. It is reputable, and they do good work. It was probably 10% cheaper than Blue Nile. I did about 2 months of research, and checked their stock online to find a diamond I liked. After receiving it, I took it to a certified jewelry appraiser, and it appraised for 2x more than I paid.

Reply
","","","","","
\"user-pic\"
EdenBabararacucudada
April 7, 2009 4:31 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Remember: /looks/ are what matter, not \"worth\". No matter what the dealer tells you, a diamond is absolutely never an investment: Diamonds lose value even faster than cars in terms of \"driving it off the lot\"

I found a beautiful antique engagement ring on eBay, which I never had appraised.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
Dave Pernal
April 7, 2009 4:32 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

I went to NYC through a referral to the diamond district on 56th. After being shown several loose diamonds at a few different dealers, I went home and thought about it for some time. I checked jewelers locally, and their prices weren't even remotely comparable for already-set stones, and the settings were not what I was looking for.

I ended up buying the first diamond I had looked at, a round 0.8 carat SI1 with F coloring. Ran me $2,850 set in white gold (platinum would have been $3,200) in a 4-prong ring.

Here's my advice: look around at local high-end jewelers to find what your SO is looking for (size, shape, grade, color, setting), then take those specs to a dealer who has loose stones. Look at several stones, sleep on it, and go with your gut and wallet.

It worked for me.....

Reply
1 replies
\"user-pic\"
Dave Pernal
April 7, 2009 4:47 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Dave Pernal: And don't be freaked out by the price at the high-end places (i.e. Tiffany's and Lux, Bond & Green et al.)!!!

If you do your research and shop wisely, you'll get the same ring that retails at Tiffany's for $10K for more like $3K from a dealer.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
Anonymous
April 7, 2009 4:34 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Diamonds from any dealer (including jewelry stores) are a huge scam. My father's family are jewelers and they'll admit it every time. Simply put they have almost zero resale value - anyone who tries to sell you one for its \"investment\" value is seriously scamming you. Generally speaking you'll only get 8-10% of its appraised value if you need to sell for any reason, which translates into about 20% of the ordinary purchase price.

My suggestion: buy a used diamond and have it reset. You'll eliminate much of the markup and therefore get a much nicer diamond for the same price you might pay at a jeweler or dealer. They're not hard to find - search consignment sections of jewelers, eBay, etc. Yes, there is a slightly greater risk in buying from eBay and the like, but with some careful diligence buyers should certainly be okay.

As for buying a diamond - a one carat diamond from a jeweler or dealer that's clear to the eye and not cloudy, cut well, relatively colorless will run about $6500 to $8000 with an appraised value much higher. The same diamond that's .98 or .99 carats from a consignment dealer or ebay will be about $2000 to $2500. And your fiance will never know where you got it unless you tell her.

These estimates are all presuming the diamonds have been certified by AGI or EGL, though EGL have slighly more \"liberal\" diamond grading policies so they may run slightly less than AGI diamonds. In other words, a EGL might grade a diamond better in cut, color, or clarity than AGI, though objectively the diamond *may* not really deserve the grade. Most really reputable national jewelers will only sell AGI diamonds for that reason.

As for getting the best diamond for the price - here's my number 1 recommendation: avoid cloudy diamonds at all costs. Your future fiance may be pushing for a big rock, but big rocks can look extraordinarily bad (and cheap) if they're cloudy and yellowish. A good cut and clarity on a diamond will usually look even bigger than a larger carat diamond and will have more sparkle anyway - and they look more expensive than a larger, cloudy, yellowish diamond if that's the impression you're going for. Some cuts hide cloudiness and flaws better than others. An emerald cut for instance will show virtually every flaw. If you want an example of a big, cloudy, yellowish rock gone wrong: one of my best friends had a broken engagement and his fiance gave the ring back (lucky guy). He paid $45,000 for the ring, and it was appraised at $58,000. It was a 3.5 carat, cloudy, yellowish stone (and yeah he pretty much got ripped off in the first instance). The best offer he got for the ring among jewelers and ebay alike? $3800. The best offer another friend got for a .99 carat, crystal clear, colorless stone with an ideal cut (paid $8000): $3000. The point: bigger stones aren't always better, particularly when it comes to your wallet.

Reply
1 replies
\"user-pic\"
pecan 3.14159265
April 7, 2009 5:11 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@GideonJahoob: I wish there was an edit button. Your wall of text is immensely difficult to read.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
cpaforrent
April 7, 2009 4:34 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

I work with a jewlery wholesaler who's also a client of mine. He supplies finished pieces to smaller stores in the area and provides them loose stomes for when they set their own.


Have used him for a few pieces for my wife over the years. Insurance (aka like kind replacement) appraisals have always come in about double what he charged me.


When buying things like jewelry, personal relationships are what's most important. They make a fair profit. You get what you want. They take care of any little problems - we've resized and swapped a couple stones alomg the way.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
TheRedSeven
April 7, 2009 4:35 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

I went through this process a couple years ago. I checked out a bunch of mall jewelers (JB Robinson, Whitehall, etc), visited Jewellers Row in Chicago, looked online, and went to a couple local, family owned jewelers.

My experience with these places was this:
--Mall jewelers: All use the same catalogs for the rings, so you can't get anything custom. The diamonds were not particularly cheap, and YMMV in terms of the expertise.
--Jewelers Row: I guess this is only applicable in New York and Chicago, but these guys seemed very car salesman-like to me. They knew all sorts of things about diamonds, but seemed more concerned with keeping that knowledge to themselves and ripping me off.
--Online: Great prices, but watch out for shady return policies, particularly if you can't see a real-live image of the stone you're getting. I wasn't comfortable getting a stone from these places, and even if I was, I'd have to know exactly the size, clarity, etc going in to make it worth the hassle.
--Local place: A bit more expensive, but generally willing to make the customer happy. They know that if you get the ring from them, you'll likely get wedding bands from them, too. The expertise is great, and if you need help, they are likely to take the time to sit with you and explain things. Custom settings are also easiest to get from these guys. This is where I got my wife's engagement ring. *Caution* Be sure you go to someone that's been recommended personally to you, as not all jewelers are as helpful/cheap/less-likely-to-screw-you as others.

As for advice:
See if your fiancee to be is open to alternative engagement ideas. The money you drop on a diamond could go nicely toward a down payment on a house. Cubic Zirconia is difficult to distinguish, and a lot cheaper. Think of a different stone, perhaps, or make the down payment the engagement gift.

If she's a traditionalist and needs the glittery rock, here's what I say:
There are two parts to the purchase of an engagement ring, the diamond and the setting/ring. The diamond is, by far, the more expensive part of things, so look to get savings there if you can.

When most people look at the diamond, they're really looking at the size of the stone and the glittery-ness of it. So you can get the most bling for your buck (IMHO) by going as big as you can, and settling for average clarity, color, and cut. Don't be swayed by some companies' \"proprietary cuts\" like the Leo Diamond. They're just ways to inflate their prices and don't add much to the sparkle. Get a round cut or a princess cut, since they will look the biggest for their weight.

As for the setting, depending on your fiancee-to-be, I'd suggest looking for something unique. The catalogs all have the same styles, and if there's something a gal likes, it's to have something completely unique to her. Look for a heirloom piece of jewelry (ask her mom/grandmom if they have a nice ring that could be re-set with a diamond) to use; ask about doing custom work.

The last thing I'd say is this: Take a friend with you who has been through the process before. That way, you have some experience on your side as you learn, and you can avoid being swayed by a smooth-talking salesperson.

Happy hunting, and good luck with your engagement and marriage!

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
Anonymous
April 7, 2009 4:35 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

USED USED USEDThere is no reason to buy a new diamond EVER. I am a woman and I adore the sparkly things, but I refuse to pay what are basically monopoly prices. And you can always have them reset.

I once spent an afternoon with a dealer in NYC's diamond district and she simply has her same number of personal diamonds reset to fit current fashion trends as she pleases.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
Radi0logy
April 7, 2009 4:37 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Wow this thread blew up fast.

I was going to say that I just went through a hugely torturous diamond search before buying my now fiancee a diamond. I went through a number of possibilities, from cz to moissanite. I ended up purchasing a real diamond because I got what I feel is an exceptional deal (1.01 ct SI2 H ideal cut, mounted in a very nice ring for $2500 total).

Some things to note -
1: Diamond prices do NOT vary very much from retail establishment to retail establishment. The margin on resale is so low that you get some wiggleroom with the setting but rarely the diamond. Always go through a site like www.goodolegold.com to check on the going rates. Their prices are very fair.

2: Having the diamond GIA certified (or other) AUTOMATICALLY adds hundreds of dollars to the cost of the diamond. The actual certification process takes weeks, and costs whoever is sending it hundreds of dollars, and so that money will be added to the cost of the diamond. If you trust your jeweler to sell you an uncertified diamond (that he has given you weight/color/clarity/cut on), you can save yourself big money there.

3: ALWAYS buy the diamond loose and have it set. If the diamond is already set, how will you be able to tell if the diamond has inclusions, what the real color is, etc etc. Its a terrible idea to buy a preset diamond.

4: Moissanite is an EXCEPTIONAL alternative to a real diamond. If your honeybuns is ok with it, it is a DEFINITE YES!! Moissanite is so close to real diamond that jewelers were regularly fooled into buying them as diamonds - until they bought a thousand-dollar machine that does nothing but test for moissanite. This is recent, not 100 years ago. Read up on it and find a jeweler that carries it - you will be impressed I promise. It is not like CZ garbage that scratches with your fingernail, this stuff is nearly as hard as diamond, and even CLEARER than real diamond - it really sparkles. There are exactly ZERO people in the world that can tell the difference between moissanite and diamond using the naked eye. Definitely consider them if your girl will let you.

Reply
","","","
\"user-pic\"
NightSteel
April 7, 2009 4:39 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Add me to the list of people who say 'buy lab-grown diamonds'. My wife's engagement ring was from Apollo Diamond. I got a beautiful emerald cut stone for a good price. And I knew for sure that I wasn't getting a blood diamond. It was quick and easy and they sent a whole packet of stuff with the stone, so if you or your intended are geeky at all, you'll like all the information about the process.

Reply
","","
\"user-pic\"
Geekybiker
April 7, 2009 4:41 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Always get the best cut you can afford. Cut contributes far more to the sparkle of the diamond than any other parameter. If you're buying over the internet pricescope has a calculator on it that can convert the measurements from a diamond into a estimated brillance. Oh, and round cut stones are the best cut for sparkle too.

Look at stone unmounted, and bring a magnifying glass (loupe) or ask to use the stores when looking at stones. Easiest things to reject stones on is poor symmetry of the faces, or inclusion that are poorly placed. Laying face up near the top for example.

Reply
","","","","","","","","","","","
\"user-pic\"
Jessy Irwin
April 7, 2009 5:03 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Are you near to a university or natural history museum? This is just passing word of mouth, but a close friend's diamond was purchased with the help of a graduate student through a museum purchasing program... though she is a vintage girl and had wanted an old mine rose cut diamond since she was a little girl. Even if you aren't able to find a museum program, I would suggest discussing the purchase with a gemologist, or someone who is well studied in the field... even a trip to a library to do a little research would help.

I would suggest taking a look at the different cuts and studying the aesthetic that you're going for-- emerald, aascher, round, brilliant, cushion, etc. The more facets that a diamond has, the more expensive the diamond is. Are you searching for a loose stone or a stone and setting? This will also make a difference in what you spend and what you're looking for.

Reply
","","","","","","","","","","","","","
\"user-pic\"
tackhouse1
April 7, 2009 5:12 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

I bought from Blue Nile and like others, couldn't have been happier. I tend to not trust jewlers (just like I don't trust car sales men etc...) Painless buying process, easy return policy. The diamond was better then I could imagine.


As far as education, I highly reccomend [www.bridaltips.com]


I will admit the the site's design leaves something to be desired, but the information on there is spot on. It really helped me weigh the \"4 C's\" of buying a diamond so that I could determine which were most important to me (and they are different for everone).

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
sweetdreamsaremadeofthis
April 7, 2009 5:14 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

I bought a diamond engagement ring last year, and it turned out really well. I managed to find a 1.3 carat E stone for under 5k, in a setting. As a first thing, people talk about how \"clean the diamond is\" and try to make you think its worthwhile spending more for diamonds with fewer impurities. I thought that made a difference until I compared stones, way close up, with a loupe. What really matters is how big it is, and more importantly how \"white\" the stone is, because something like an E totally shines.

I certainly wasn't sure what I wanted, even after lots of reading online, until I spoke with the jeweler. A friend of mine's uncle is a jeweler in the diamond district, way high up in a tiny office on 47th st. Those are the guys who can get you a reasonable deal, and who know what the market price should be. I guarantee that people in a mall pay twice as much for a rock that looks half as good. If you can find that sort of independent jeweler (and I'm sure they have folks of this sort in other cities) who has a tiny office and relatively low overhead, you'll spend more of your money on the stone and less on the store's rent.

Reply
","","","","
\"user-pic\"
GorillaEmperorOfEarth
April 7, 2009 5:21 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Ask for jeweler recommendations from friends or family. Do your research on cut, color, and clarity. A local jeweler may be more willing to do custom work so you won't see another person wearing the same ring. I bought an engagement ring and our wedding bands from a jeweler my parents went through. Couldn't be happier.

Reply
","","","","
\"user-pic\"
JohnTheBastard
April 7, 2009 5:30 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Okay, I hate diamonds. Basically, they are a symbol that says \"I love you so much, I am willing to blow a ridiculous amount of cash on a stupid rock to prove it.\" You could take $10,000, douse it with gasoline, and then take a picture of yourself lighting it on fire. Give the pic to your loved one-it communicates the same thing.

/rant

So here are my preferred alternatives:

1) Take the money you were going to waste, and instead, donate it to a charity in the name of your loved one. Bonus: tax deduction. If you're clever you do it in some instance where you get a name permanently etched on a brick in some impressive building somewhere.

2) Buy something you don't wear. Like a down payment on a house. Or some nice/awesome thing you want to pass on as an heirloom for generations.

3) If you still hafta hafta hafta have the stupid rock, buy a jeweler's loupe, educate yourself on how to look for flaws and fakes (much easier than you think), and capitalize on misfortune of those who caused our economic woes. Buy from some iBanker who has fallen on hard times.

Note on this last option: a diamond IS NOT an investment. The ONLY way you'll ever get back what you paid for it is to lose or break it an file an insurance claim. Use this to your advantage. Read the famous Atlantic article about the history of the diamond trade if you haven't already:

[www.theatlantic.com]

Reply
2 replies
\"user-pic\"
pecan 3.14159265
April 7, 2009 6:29 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@JohnTheBastard: What if it doesn't cost anywhere near $10,000? Do you still hate them? Just curious, cause it seems like your rant was all based on the assumption that diamonds have to cost a ton.

And your suggestions are just...not that awesome. It's an engagement, not a hedge fund or a mortgage. You get that some people like romance, right? A ring is a ring. If she wants one, do it. Save money, spend less than you have, put the rest into charity. But the most important thing is to communicate with the other person to make sure that you're both celebrating your engagement according to how you want to do it. If it all goes to charity, and that's what you want, okay. If you want a ring, that's fine too.

Capitalizing on those who have fallen on hard times just seems like extremely poor taste. These people are suffering, just like others who weren't in the financial industry. A good deal if honest, innocent people in the financial industry lost their savings, and it wasn't their fault.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
JohnTheBastard
April 7, 2009 7:37 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@pecan 3.14159265:

I hate diamonds in general, not just the expensive ones. The only thing that makes diamonds more \"romantic\" than a lump of graphite is 80 years worth of expensive advertising paid for by a murderous, price-fixing cartel. If you don't like the \"burning your money\" option, perhaps you could looking into buying the arm from an 8 year old child of a diamond mine worker, lopped off by guerillas. It has about the same romantic appeal to me, either way.

And to answer your next question: no, there is no moral distinction between blood diamonds and any other diamond. The artificial price of diamonds has the same effect, whether they come from Canada or black Africa. So long as De Beers is allowed to control the retail value, the atrocities will continue.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
infinitemonkeys
April 7, 2009 5:34 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

My (then) fiance insisted upon a diamond despite my distaste for the monopolistic practices of the diamond producers and cutters, the horrible treatment suffered by miners, the internecine warfare supported by the industry, and the obscene consumerism associated with diamonds. I offered to spend the same on an emerald, aquamarine, or other stone with less unsavory associations, but she was adamant.
I could not have been more delighted when I found out she only liked the look of diamonds. We found that there were artificial stones that, properly cut, satisfied her desire. I was even able to get a larger stone, more gold in the ring, and pave setting.
Don't make it an issue of money, but of conscience. Does she want to wear innocent blood on her finger?

For those who insist upon diamonds, a little knowledge may make a smarter and easier to palate decision. The diamond cartels have continually changed their marketing to support their monopoly. In the 80's, Russia discovered some plentiful mines, threatening the price of diamonds. What did DeBeers, et al, do? They promoted the eternity band, channel set, pave settings and solitaire necklaces. Why? Because most of the Russian diamonds were around 1/4 carat.
A victim of their success, after several years, small stones were popular and people were not buying jewelry that included large stones (where the real money is). So they switched to the past, present, future three stone bands (notice those ads almost never had any small stones in the settings).

So go back in time and buy a ring with more small stones and, if any larger stones, try to keep them under half a carat. Those diamonds are from less war-torn parts of the world like Russia and Canada.

Reply
","","
\"user-pic\"
Baccus83
April 7, 2009 5:38 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

1) Go vacation in St. Martin.
2) Propose.
3) Visit Phillipsburg, large duty-free port city.
4) Visit every possible jewelry store. There are tons of them.
5) Find a ring she likes. Disregard the marked price, as it's usually 4x what it's worth.
6) Tell the salesperson what you're willing to spend.
7) He'll offer MUCH lower.
8) If he doesn't come down to (or close to) a level you're comfortable with, threaten to leave.
9) He'll talk to his manager, and come back with a better deal.
10) Purchase ring. Duty free!

This worked for me. Of course, it's easier to get to St. Martin for me (her parents live on a boat in the Caribbean). But hey, if you're planning on taking a cruise anytime soon - they have the best deals on diamonds around. My fiance's ring appraised for more than 2x what I paid for it.

Also - don't forget to do your homework. Cut is probably most important. Don't skimp on cut quality. Round Brilliant diamonds and Princess Cut diamonds are both superior cuts (although it's mostly personal preference.) Also, Don't get a diamond with color less than J, as that's when you start to see yellowing. Examine the diamond for clarity to make sure it's \"eye-clean.\" VS2-S1 is a decent range. Key is to make sure there's not visible inclusions, especially under the table. You can find great deals on diamonds under a carat. My fiance has a .6 carat diamond, but it looks larger because it's in a cirque setting, with small diamonds surrounding it.

Always make sure there's a decent return policy. Take the ring to an independent GIA certified appraiser right away and make sure it's worth what you paid for it.

Reply
4 replies
\"user-pic\"
Geekybiker
April 8, 2009 6:04 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Gene Gemperline:
I'd be really wary about buying something in the islands. Fakes are more common, and going across international borders makes things much more difficult if you do get ripped off. I'd make sure you're fairly confident you're able to spot a fake before trying this.

Always take the ring to an independent appraiser no matter where you get it. No only can they verify what you bought, but you'll need the appraisal for insurance purposes anyways.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Baccus83
April 8, 2009 2:14 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Geekybiker: You should definitely know what to look for when purchasing a diamond. There are a few shady operations in the islands - but if you stick with some of the more reputable organizations in major ports then you shouldn't have any problem. Jewelry stores in Phillipsburg, St. Martin wouldn't stay in business if they were selling fake merchandise. The local government wouldn't allow it. They don't want a reputation of selling counterfeit merch.

Like I said - always make sure there's a guaranteed written return policy. And take the ring to an independent appraiser once you get back ashore. Thankfully it would've been easier for us to return the ring since my fiance's parents were docked in St Martin.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
pecan 3.14159265
April 7, 2009 6:31 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Gene Gemperline: Some former friends of ours (long story) purchased jewelry duty-free from the store. As long as it's good quality, and you can verify for yourself that it is good quality and not fake or terrible, you've got a good deal.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Baccus83
April 7, 2009 10:33 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@pecan 3.14159265: Yeah - like I said, you have to do your homework and know what you're buying and how much x and y are worth before you go in. There are many fine jewelers in St. Marten - but there are also plenty of shady places that prey on cruise passengers who don't know what they're getting into.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
hypoxia
April 7, 2009 5:41 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

My diamond advice: don't buy diamonds. My wedding ring is white sapphires. Looks exactly the same, wears the same, 1/20 of the cost. Seriously.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
Kaellorian
April 7, 2009 5:50 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

*blocks consumerist from girlfriend's computer*

Reply
","","","","
\"user-pic\"
Karkus
April 7, 2009 6:01 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Don't buy diamonds!!!!!!!!! and yes I have an alternative. But first....

\"No \"don't buy diamonds!\" suggestions, please, unless you have a serious alternative. \"

I didn't know that the Consumerist had sold out to the diamond cartel, but since you have, it's even more important to say

Don't buy diamonds!!!!

Ever read the National Geographic issue on diamonds from March 2002? That might convince you and your fiancee.
On top of various environmental, moral, etc. issues, diamonds are the worst waste of money ever. It should be at the top of the list of things the Consumerist would warn against. But apperently even the Consumerist has been paid off.

Alternative:
OK this may be a rare case, but for me it was a real nice mountain bike, with a lifetime service warranty (by me). Worked for me, and we've heard several single women say that they would love it a man gave them an engagement bike. But of course we live in Boulder, so this is unusual.

Reply
2 replies
\"user-pic\"
Baccus83
April 7, 2009 10:43 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Karkus: If I want to pay $500 for a giant taco then I should be able to. And I would try to do my research to figure out where I can get the best giant taco around, for the most reasonable price. Some people might say \"don't waste your money on a giant taco, it's worthless!\" but I won't care because it's what I want.

This is how capitalism works. People want diamonds. They are beautiful stones and hold a special place in the zeitgeist. So let's get off the \"don't buy diamonds\" bandwagon and start to look at things as rational adults.

Yes there are conflict diamonds still around. Just like there's conflict Coca-Cola and conflict corn. But the problem has been dramatically reduced since the adoption of the Kimberly Process in 2003, which incidentally is AFTER the National Geographic article you cited.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
pecan 3.14159265
April 7, 2009 6:51 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Karkus: It's not that Consumerist is pandering to diamond shippers, but it's that \"don't buy diamonds\" is absolutely useless when the OP wants advice on just that. Buying diamonds. If the OP wants a diamond, who the hell are you to tell him/her that their decision is stupid? Consumerist is advocating that people be responsible and wise about their decisions. Certainly a great deal of people have expressed valid alternatives, such as manmade diamonds, alexandrite and other gem stones. Telling the OP not to buy a diamond is useless advice.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
wooster11
April 7, 2009 6:01 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

This is easy. Your best bet is to shop at one of the two jewelry districts in the United States in Los Angeles or New York. These are mainly wholesalers although many of them also sell retail at the same or near wholesale prices.

If you're concerned about authenticity, you should buy a diamond that's certified by one of the two major gemological institutes which are the Gemological Institute of America (GIA) or the European Gemological Laboratories (EGL). GIA will run you more than EGL and is more prestigious than EGL, but both are considered to be the only two legitimate certification authorities in diamonds. Non certified diamonds are even cheaper, but most insurance companies require appraisals and having a certificate certainly helps with that.

You can definitely find trustworthy retailers in the Jewelry Districts - just shop around.

But for a start, I'd recommend someone that I know is trustworthy and has been in the business for 30 years now. They are based in Los Angeles but work with people all over the world. You can visit their website to get an idea of who they are, however, I'd recommend calling them instead of trying to order online. You'll get great service and you won't regret shopping from them. I haven't yet.

Gems Aura (Ask for Theresa or Ruby)
[www.gemsaura.com]
(213) 623-8028

Reply
1 replies
\"user-pic\"
Baccus83
April 7, 2009 10:45 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@wooster11: Chicago also has a pretty extensive jewelry district.

Reply
","","","","","
\"user-pic\"
MichaelLC
April 7, 2009 6:11 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

I'd go (and did with my wife's ring) for quality over quantity. Both, is always better, of course. ;)


For example, I bought a .75c diamond, but with 2nd highest clarity, cut, and color. Also used info from pricescope to find good table and angle measurements.


Result? Everyone (friends, strangers) comments on how much it sparkles, which I guess is the point, if there is one.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
PittsburghJen
April 7, 2009 6:12 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Mr. Pittsburgh and I have purchased all diamond related jewelry from Helzberg Diamonds. I looked around in the store for an engagement ring but he wound up ordering it online. That purchase was without flaw as was our purchase of our wedding rings. I'd recommend them.

Reply
1 replies
\"user-pic\"
pecan 3.14159265
April 7, 2009 6:52 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@PittsburghJen: I find that Helzberg has a fantastic selection and pretty good prices.

Reply
","","","
\"user-pic\"
Anonymous
April 7, 2009 6:22 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

I would also look into industrial/synthetic diamonds. Modern deposition technology can create diamonds more pure than harvested diamonds at a fraction of the price. Apollo Diamonds (http://www.apollodiamond.com/), for example, is one of the many companies that produce synthetic jewelry diamonds. And synthetic diamonds avoid the human rights issues of the modern diamond trade.

Reply
","","","
\"user-pic\"
Anonymous
April 7, 2009 6:25 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Every salesperson will tell your that \"Our diamonds are conflict free\" which is probably a lie. Conflict diamonds get mixed in with the good ones at every step of the process. The higher-ups at the jewelry store don't even know for sure.

The only way to get around this is to buy a diamond from a Canadian mine. Of course, you're going to pay a lot more to know that no one died for your rock.

Reply
","","","
\"user-pic\"
Kaessa
April 7, 2009 6:30 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

[www.moissanite.com]

I love mine.

[kaessa.deviantart.com]

Reply
","","","","","","","","","","
\"user-pic\"
Reenee
April 7, 2009 7:08 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

I have not read all of the comments left by other users but I recommend not buying a diamond at all. Get an emerald, sapphire, or if you're ballsy, a ruby.

If you're going to buy a diamond anyway, please make the attempt to not buy conflict/blood diamonds. If you want a purely legal diamond not acquired by tainted means, ask for a Certificate of Origin when you are purchasing your diamond. If the jeweler's manager cannot provide one, go look elsewhere.

Reply
1 replies
\"user-pic\"
edwardso
April 7, 2009 7:13 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Reenee: you probably should have at least glanced at the other comments to save yourself some time

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
D_Nicole
April 7, 2009 7:10 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

As someone who works in the diamond industry, I'd suggest purchasing from small stores. There are many regional centers for purchasing diamonds, staffed by people far more knowledgeable and honorable than chain stores.

Do not buy a diamond if you are told it is non-refundable or requires you to buy in at a half-credit of the original purchase value.

REAL diamond retailers want you to be happy and typically offer 100% refund within a normal period of time as long as the stone or setting is not damaged. This is the hallmark of a true diamond dealer. They want to build a lifelong relationship with their customers and they value their reputation for dealing honestly and fairly with the public.

I would suggest you look into the diamond district in NYC or the one in Pittsburgh. There is on in LA, but I'd suggest NYC or PGH over them simply because I am more familiar with companies from those cities. The stores in these centers make a serious effort to educate the buyer on the process and to sell only that which will make a happy wearer. They do not typically pressure a customer to exceed their limitations.

Do not buy a high grade diamond unless is is certified by GIA or EGL and comes with a holo-laminated certificate with a license number.

Also, though I work in the industry, I myself do not prefer diamonds over any other engagement ring stone. There are many other, equally beautiful and valuable options that do not come along with the suffering typically inflicted against those who have no other option but to work in diamond mines.

The Kimberly Process can only do so much and truly, I have never met a diamond dealer who could tell me exactly where a diamond parcel came from. It's simply impossible, stateside.

My own engagement ring stone was a sapphire and it is beautiful and a perfect symbol of my husbands love for me. It also did not bankrupt us as a young couple, haha.

Do not think, also, that diamonds are indestructible. There are many cases in which a wearer is careless and accidentally crack the stone. It is, after all, a crystal.

Reply
","","","
\"user-pic\"
HarcourtArmstrong
April 7, 2009 7:16 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Most men realize that buying a diamond is probably the worst financial decision you will make. Don't try to explain this to your girlfriend. The whole point is to show that you are willing to make an irrational decision for her. My wife to be is pretty frugal, but she wouldn't budge on the matter of her ring.

Buying a diamond is like buying a car, only ten times worse. It's a large financial decision that happens very rarely. Except, buying a car is easier because of organizations like the Consumers Union that help you determine quality. Diamond don't really have brands like cars. You have to rely on your eyes to tell you if you are buying a good one.

Everything you have heard about the 4 C's is true, but you probably haven't seen examples of each. Go around to several jewelers and just look. One thing I noticed when I did this was that most jewelers play with the lighting in their stores to disguise the flaws in their stones. I really don't know what to do about this, but at one point in my shopping I toyed with the idea of bringing a flashlight with me.


In the end, ask yourself three questions:

Is it the right size?

Is it noticeably yellow?

Does it sparkle?


To keep the price down, you will probably have to sacrifice on one or more of these. This is really up to you.



For me, the most important thing was the sparkle. This means both good cut and clarity. I looked a quite a few diamonds that didn't sparkle. The most obvious was one that wasn't polished all of the way. I could see streaks on the surface of the diamond. At first I thought it just needed to be cleaned, but learned that it was a sign of a poor cut.


Remember, the 4 C's are true, but you will have to look at some stones to really know what they mean. I hope my advice was helpful.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
DarianAlcestis
April 7, 2009 7:17 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Actually, diamonds only became 'the norm' as engagement symbol after DeBeers started saying so in, like, the 50s.

Prior to that, sapphires were the standard in the Northeast - and Britain.

Emeralds are a lousy choice for anything everyday. Their crack-factor is high.

For fashion-istas - diamonds work because they go with every outfit. Rubies and sapphires may not 'work' with clothing of a totally different hue (think tomato red vs. the blue, pink red of a ruby).

That can be remedied by not wearing said engagement ring on some days, while wearing the band.

The commenter who said people didn't know she was married because of a sapphire ring? Who cares? But you bought a ring - did you ask these commenters for money? sheesh

And as noble as saving to buy for a ring is - guys, any woman worth their salt would marry you without the need for the symbol. They might even want to put the money down on a home or furniture - something that everyone could enjoy. That is if you're the average working guy. Those in higher income brackets do not apply to said comment.

Reply
1 replies
\"user-pic\"
Kimaroo - 100% Pure Natural Kitteh
April 8, 2009 4:17 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@DarianAlcestis: I'm the girl who had the sapphire ring.. and yes we bought a new ring for our anniversary. I didn't ask anyone for any money for my new ring, and just so you know.. I love my new anniversary ring and it feels more special than my old one did. We were young/broke when we got married and I thought I was sure I wanted a sapphire instead of a diamond, but after a few years, and the situation of people being shocked that I was married, I decided that I really did want a diamond ring.


Who cares? I care.. and that's what matters.


Sapphires or other alternative stones may work for some people, especially if the quality is very high. But a woman has the right to change her mind and you might want to be prepared for it, that's all I was trying to say.

Reply
","","
\"user-pic\"
AlexandraMaguffin
April 7, 2009 7:25 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

I got engaged just over a year ago. I did a TON of research on buying diamonds before I actually bought the ring. From first hand experience, I can say pricescope.com was a great resource for information. Although I ended up buying my diamond and ring from another vendor in the end, I had a great experience with both pricescope and with one of their frequently recommended vendors, whom I've since purchased some non-diamond jewelry. Anyway... pricescope is a great resource.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
Comms
April 7, 2009 7:29 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

The best advice I ever got and the advice I always give when it comes to diamonds is *buy second hand*.

You know their jingle right? A diamond is forever? Well, if a diamond is forever than a used diamond is just as good (if not better) than a new diamond.

And you'll be pleasantly surprised to see that \"used\" diamonds cost a fraction of what a similar sized diamond costs new at retail.

There's no difference between a new diamond or old diamond. Diamonds don't rot.

Just to give you an example, I searched ebay, just now, for loose diamonds and found a VS1, round cut, 2.88ct for just a smidge over $400 and 25minutes left. I went to an online diamond retailer and a round cut, 2.47ct, VS2 is going for $17,000. The cut on the first is rated as \"excellent\" while the later is \"very good\".

Get a used diamond because a) it's HOLY SHIT cheaper and b) the used diamond market doesn't directly feed into the slavery, abuse and exploitation of the diamond cartels. The cartels don't get a slice of the pie when someone sells their mom's old diamonds.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
Anonymous
April 7, 2009 7:32 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

My husband and I had a great experience at the Shane company. The staff was very knowledgeable, and when I told the sales person what I wanted, she immediatly went into the back and came out with the perfect setting. They did not try to pressure us into buying a higher priced diamond, or try to sell us a crappy diamond that was cut special.

Our experience with Jared was awful, after they ran our credit and gave us a $9000 limit, which was more than we ever planned on spending on a ring. They tried to pressure us into buying 2-3 times what our budget was, and the sales person was not very helpful. After seeing that we were really set on what we wanted, she showed us a Leo diamond that was visibly included, and tried to say that nobody would notice.

My point is that if you go to a chain store, be careful, and know what you want and how much you want to spend, and don't vary from that more than maybe a couple hundred dollars.

Reply
","","
\"user-pic\"
H3ion
April 7, 2009 8:18 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

47th Street in New York but not from the stores on the street. The office buildings house diamond merchants who will sell you a diamond, not a ring. I bought my wife's ring there and the dealer quoted a price and insisted I take the stone to any gemologist for appraisal before he would take my money. So with a diamond in my pocket, I went to a jeweler in another town who appraised the stone for 4X what the dealer had quoted. I bought the stone and the dealer sent me to another dealer who, for $25, provided a platinum setting with 1/2 carat of baguettes. Now granted, this was some years ago, but a 1 1/2 carat pure white, no defects, set me back $1,500 plus the $25 for the setting. You may need to know someone to get in but if you do, it's definitely worth the effort.

Reply
1 replies
\"user-pic\"
sweetdreamsaremadeofthis
April 7, 2009 9:04 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Barrister76: I heartily agree (see above). The real best deals are up in the office buildings of 47th st. You need an in-to find them...but its well worth it. The one I worked with does alot of deals by mail/over the phone to avoid sales tax

Reply
","","","","","","","","","","","","","","","","
\"user-pic\"
z4ce
April 8, 2009 12:20 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

If you bargain hard, you can get a local jeweler to beat the prices of bluenile, etc. Then the local jeweler will also take care of small repairs, resizes, and cleaning it for you. If you go in unprepared any jeweler will way over charge you. Go in informed with the prices on bluenile and an understanding of how the cut, clarity, color, and carats affect the price of a diamond and you'll do pretty well. I ended up getting a ring for my wife a couple of grand cheaper than was possible online.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
Anonymous
April 8, 2009 12:45 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

Buy on eBay paying with PayPal from a seller with 100% rating (or at worst 99.9% and a large number of transactions). READ the feedbacks before you buy. You do NOT want to see comments like FAKE.

After you've bought the diamond - IMMEDIATELY take it to a reputable local dealer and have it appraised and checked. This will cost you about 50$ and they deserve it. If it's fake, use this to claim your money back via PayPal. If it's genuine, you've got your insurance certificate!

Reply
","","
\"user-pic\"
Jesse in Japan
April 8, 2009 1:46 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

Screw diamonds. Rubies and sapphires are the way to go.

Reply
","","","","","","","
\"user-pic\"
Judd Rose
April 8, 2009 1:25 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Hi folks, I went through this decision a while back. I apologize if any of my comments were already posted, I'm getting ready for work and don't have time to read all 75 comments but I did want to share my experiences and what I found.

First, I should say that I've been opposed to diamonds for a long time. I won't go into the full details since if you're interested you can find it elsewhere, but suffice it to say that any time you create a huge disparity between the rarity of an item and the selling price, that giant profit margin attracts a lot of shady characters. And thus can do a lot of harm to society. The diamond trade has effectively destroyed several african countries. You can see a similar effect in the US's \"drug war\" and its effect on Columbia and Mexico. It doesn't matter if you get a \"conflict-free\" diamond or not, the fact that you are willing to pay an inflated price for a common good contributes to the problems the industry has created.

My fiancee did not agree, and felt that her engagement ring had to be the traditional diamond one. I asked her to watch Blood Diamonds (not the DiCaprio movie, rather the History Channel documentary) which really explains the situation, focusing on the horrors that have almost destroyed the country of Sierra Leone as a direct result of the developed world's hunger for diamonds.

That changed her mind, and we started discussing alternatives. We didn't seriously consider man-made diamonds. At the time we couldn't find enough reliable information on them, and what we did find seemed very expensive. Maybe that's changed since then, I dunno.

We looked at cubic zirconia, but we decided due to its reputation as costume jewelry it might be a bit embarassing, especially since it is quite easily identifiable to anyone who knows about it. It also doesn't look quite as nice.

We considered moissanite, which I was super-excited about. It's harder than diamonds, has a higher refractive index (i.e. sparkles more), and is cheaper. It doesn't have the bad reputation of zirconia, and doesn't contribute to the destruction of the third world like diamonds. Plus, it's story is cool... it was discovered in a meteor, and a lab figured how to sythesize it. Go science! So that makes a cool story for people asking about it.

The one thing about moissanite is that unlike diamonds, which give a slightly white color to the light that passes through them, moissanite gives a slightly rainbowed color. Very subtle, but it didn't really look right to my fiance in the setting she wanted (white gold, tension setting). It would probably look great in a gold ring, or set next to other gems, but by itself with white gold it looked slightly off.

So then we started considering other gems. Emeralds, rubies, sapphires are all beautiful stones that come in a wide range of colors, and are actually rarer than diamonds. More importantly, their price is actually a function of supply and demand, not artificial constraints, which means their production doesn't have wide-spread horrific side effects like the diamond trade does. They're not as hard as diamonds, but they're plenty hard to last multiple generations in the right cut and with the right care. We were leaning toward a powder-blue stone --she's a big Carolina fan :) and were pretty convinced we were going with that.

At the last moment, though, we went in a different direction. I had a family ring, passed down to me by my mother. We'd never considered it since the style (kind of an odd, but pretty, art deco) didn't really fit with my fiance's style, at least for a ring she would wear all the time. In discussions with our jeweler, we discovered that it would be a simple matter to take the stone out of it and put it into another ring, leaving the setting of the old ring intact so that we could put a new stone in it at some point in the future.

So that stone that we took out of the family ring and put into her engagement ring was, you guessed it, a diamond. Which isn't preferable, but since it had already been purchased (before we were born), we justified it by saying the damage had already been done. We really liked that we were making a connection to my family. So not ideal, but we went with it.

My personal advice? Avoid diamonds if at all possible. It's just not worth the karmic debt. If you absolutely must have a diamond, buy off the used/heirloom market... I hear you can find great deals in there sometimes, and you can rest a little easier knowing that whatever societal damage that diamond contributed to was funded a long time ago, when it was originally purchased, and your purchase of it didn't further contribute to that (the secondary market for diamonds doesn't actually contribute to the demand in the main market, in fact it decreases demand in the main market).

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
Judd Rose
April 8, 2009 1:29 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

I went through this decision a while back. I apologize if any of my comments were already posted, I'm getting ready for work and don't have time to read all 75 comments but I did want to share my experiences and what I found.

First, I should say that I've been opposed to diamonds for a long time. I won't go into the full details since if you're interested you can find it elsewhere, but suffice it to say that any time you create a huge disparity between the rarity of an item and the selling price, that giant profit margin attracts a lot of shady characters. And thus can do a lot of harm to society. The diamond trade has effectively destroyed several african countries. You can see a similar effect in the US's \"drug war\" and its effect on Columbia and Mexico. It doesn't matter if you get a \"conflict-free\" diamond or not, the fact that you are willing to pay an inflated price for a common good contributes to the problems the industry has created.

My fiancee did not agree, and felt that her engagement ring had to be the traditional diamond one. I asked her to watch Blood Diamonds (not the DiCaprio movie, rather the History Channel documentary) which really explains the situation, focusing on the horrors that have almost destroyed the country of Sierra Leone as a direct result of the developed world's hunger for diamonds.

Eventually she understood and came around, and we started discussing alternatives. We didn't seriously consider man-made diamonds. At the time we couldn't find enough reliable information on them, and what we did find seemed very expensive. Maybe that's changed since then, I dunno.

We looked at cubic zirconia, but we decided due to its reputation as costume jewelry it might be a bit embarassing, especially since it is quite easily identifiable to anyone who knows about it. It also doesn't look quite as nice.

We considered moissanite, which I was super-excited about. It's harder than diamonds, has a higher refractive index (i.e. sparkles more), and is cheaper. It doesn't have the bad reputation of zirconia, and doesn't contribute to the destruction of the third world like diamonds. Plus, it's story is cool... it was discovered in a meteor, and a lab figured how to sythesize it. Go science! So that makes a cool story for people asking about it.

The one thing about moissanite is that unlike diamonds, which give a slightly white color to the light that passes through them, moissanite gives a slightly rainbowed color. Very subtle, but it didn't really look right to my fiance in the setting she wanted (white gold, tension setting). It would probably look great in a gold ring, or set next to other gems, but by itself with white gold it looked slightly off.

So then we started considering other gems. Emeralds, rubies, sapphires are all beautiful stones that come in a wide range of colors, and are actually rarer than diamonds. More importantly, their price is actually a function of supply and demand, not artificial constraints, which means their production doesn't have wide-spread horrific side effects like the diamond trade does. They're not as hard as diamonds, but they're plenty hard to last multiple generations in the right cut and with the right care. We were leaning toward a powder-blue stone --she's a big Carolina fan :) and were pretty convinced we were going with that.

At the last moment, though, we went in a different direction. I had a family ring, passed down to me by my mother. We'd never considered it since the style (kind of an odd, but pretty, art deco) didn't really fit with my fiance's style, at least for a ring she would wear all the time. In discussions with our jeweler, we discovered that it would be a simple matter to take the stone out of it and put it into another ring, leaving the setting of the old ring intact so that we could put a new stone in it at some point in the future.

So that stone that we took out of the family ring and put into her engagement ring was, you guessed it, a diamond. Which isn't preferable, but since it had already been purchased (before we were born), we justified it by saying the damage had already been done. We really liked that we were making a connection to my family. So not ideal, but we went with it.

My personal advice? Avoid diamonds if at all possible. It's just not worth the karmic debt. If you absolutely must have a diamond, buy off the used/heirloom market... I hear you can find great deals in there sometimes, and you can rest a little easier knowing that whatever societal damage that diamond contributed to was funded a long time ago, when it was originally purchased, and your purchase of it didn't further contribute to that (the secondary market for diamonds doesn't actually contribute to the demand in the main market, in fact it decreases demand in the main market).

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
Judd Rose
April 8, 2009 1:29 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

gah, sorry for double-post :(

Reply
","","
\"user-pic\"
Judd Rose
April 8, 2009 3:42 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

My wife has asked me to fix my earlier comment --it turns out she was on the same wavelength as me the whole time in terms of not wanting a diamond. She just wanted to make sure the ring still _looked_ traditional. I'd misunderstood. All worked out in the end though!

Reply
","","
\"user-pic\"
INsano
April 8, 2009 4:59 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Don't buy diamonds. My serious alternative:

Not relating to the person you treasure the most with commodities. As crazy as this sounds in a world of hyper-marketing, you don't need any of the things that you're told you \"need\" to make your relationship or life socially or economically acceptable. If things that sparkle really just happen to be your thing, go for it, but these things that are presented and marketed to us as \"what is needed\" surely aren't. Whenever you think you need something to legitimize you or your relationships, just remember that somewhere, there is a marketing team that was paid very handsomely to convince you of that.

Reply
","","","","
\"user-pic\"
Anne Boleyn
April 8, 2009 7:47 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Moissanite is superior to diamond in every way - it has better refraction, is conflict and overpricing-free, and is cheap to make. [diamondssuck.com]

Reply
1 replies
\"user-pic\"
freelunch
April 8, 2009 10:15 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@saya: FYI - diamonds are harder than Moissanite... and Moissanite has a higher dispersion index, which means the sparkles include colors of the rainbow rather than the 'shades of gray' effect diamonds offer. The dispersion index is key if you are using white gold or platinum for your setting.


Also, any guy that has researched diamonds will take one look at a moissanite and know (due to the dispersion) that it is not a diamond. Not a problem unless you are trying to play it off as one.


Personally, I am not a fan of diamonds, but I am not a fan of man-made rocks either. I would give my left foot for a natural Moissanite rock for my fiance, but that isn't happening.

Reply
","","","","","","","
\"user-pic\"
textilesdiva
April 9, 2009 3:45 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

A friend on the inside.
Her store made profit, her contractor did too (custom ring...it's the split shank asscher on ringenvy.com ;)), and my fiancee got a good deal. Probably not the best possible deal, but that's okay.

Another type: look at diamonds before you buy. I've heard people say a J colored diamond looks like popcorn - to them. If you and yours can't tell a difference between a D and J, why pay for the colorless rating? And don't be afraid to ask for help: some cuts allow for more inclusions (for example, an asscher only highlights and magnifies flaws, since the effect is that of an endless hall of mirrors. A princess cut doesn't have that effect nearly as much).

I looked at other stones. Excluding many stones I like (tanzanite, garnet, iolite) on the basis of durability and my clumsiness, the options were diamond, and corundum (sapphire/ruby). I didn't want a sapphire or ruby, and they can actually be more expensive than comparable diamonds. I was truly heartbroken that I couldn't have a tanzanite engagement ring, but life happens. And I happen to my belongings.

Reply
");