var json_comments = new Array("
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bluewyvern
April 26, 2009 6:07 PM
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Is the balloon in the picture supposed to look like a big, evil pink pitchfork?

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3 replies
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RedwoodFlyer
April 26, 2009 7:17 PM
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@bluewyvern:

These wacky waiving inflatable arm flailing tube men are great!

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Darkest Daze
April 27, 2009 7:27 AM
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@RedwoodFlyer: You sir, saved me the time of finding a clip of that. First thing I noticed when I saw the picture was the wacky waiving inflatable arm flailing tube man.

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Verucalise (Est.February2008)
April 26, 2009 10:03 PM
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@RedwoodFlyer: Anyone who is a Family Guy fan, is a friend of mine. A nice red heart for you now.

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Dafrety
April 26, 2009 6:11 PM
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Oh well, I guess I'll just have to get my phones from Ebay now. :)

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3 replies
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wildhare
April 27, 2009 3:24 PM
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@Dafrety: I purchased a very reasonably priced phone from Motorola which is completely non-branded and worked flawlessly. The only problem is the T-mobile website always asks me what model my phone is.

I tried buying a phone from Amazon but it was branded cingular despite being advertised as \"universal unlocked\". If you like a phone try the actual manufacturer first for a good price and a non-branded phone.

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Myotheralt
April 27, 2009 1:36 AM
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@Dafrety: But if you want to use it on TMobile, you will have to pay a because-we-can fee.

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GearheadGeek
April 27, 2009 1:55 PM
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@MyoTheRalt: No, you won't. You only pay that fee if you buy the phone from T-Mobile. With GSM carriers, you can swap your SIM between phones with few restrictions.

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Esquire99
April 26, 2009 6:21 PM
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Pretty crappy on T-Mobile's part. I hate these fees. Unfortunately, many people won't vote with their wallet and change carriers; instead they'll keep T-Mobile and just bitch about it. I do have to wonder if they are bringing it back to help sagging revenues. I imagine they are losing more and more customers (as their contracts expire) to ATT for the iPhone. I also suspect they are seeing record numbers of customers not paying their bills because of the economy, so they're having to resort back to charging the \"good\" customers ridiculous fees. I can certainly see charging a fee to do the change in person, and *maybe* even on the phone, as T-Mobile has to pay someone to stand there and process the upgrade. However, to charge the fee for customers who process their own upgrades online is pretty absurd. Basically, I have no problem with these fees so long as there is at least some way to upgrade without incurring it, even if it's less convenient for me. But when they apply them across the board to every method, even the less convenient ones, it crosses the line.

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4 replies
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pecan 3.14159265
April 27, 2009 2:10 PM
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@Esquire99: Verizon and Apple are in talks to develop an iPhone for Verizon, which would mean more people would have access. But I've never seen Verizon charge for the act of buying a phone. You had to pay for the phone, sure, but to pay for the process of buying the phone is ridiculous.

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dragonfire81
April 27, 2009 2:54 PM
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@pecan 3.14159265: It's not that easy to \"vote with your wallet\" if you have to eat a $175 termination fee in the process.

and I highly doubt this fee constitutes a materially adverse change. Almost all carriers charge the fee and I don't think I've ever heard of someone using it as a basis to escape a contract.

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H3ion
April 26, 2009 8:27 PM
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@Esquire99: Verizon doesn't charge an upgrade fee per se, but when you upgrade your phone, you extend your contract by one or two years. Since I have my whole family on one plan, there's not much point in switching so we might as well get the upgraded phones.

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mrbenning
April 26, 2009 10:13 PM
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@Barrister76: That and you have to pay to 'activate' the phone.

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BustangBetty
April 27, 2009 5:50 AM
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@mrbenning: I didn't pay to activate my new phone with Verizon. I also upgraded my phone but I purchased it on eBay thus avoiding being locked into another 2 year contract.

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Verucalise (Est.February2008)
April 26, 2009 6:22 PM
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What is probably the worst part of this zombie fee, is the current customers who voiced their opinions about this fee in the first place to get it removed.


The fee was removed to save customer satisfactio, then snuck back in 5 months later... did they think that no one would notice?


If their services are otherwise acceptable, then maybe their customers should pursue another vendor to buy their phones and avoid the fee. By upgrading their equipment and accepting this useless fee, they are only condoning it.


I honestly buy my phones on Ebay with no issues, 3 years and counting. I refuse to accept another 2 year contract over a $50 phone.


Sorry, T-mobile customers. This really sucks.

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3 replies
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RedwoodFlyer
April 26, 2009 7:15 PM
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@verucalise: I've been with T.Mo for ages and manage to squeeze great deals out of them...threatening to cancel works wonders! I'll gladly sign on for another 2 years to get a G1 for $49...especially since I'm grandfathered in for the $9.99/month unlimited messaging on my family plan.

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Verucalise (Est.February2008)
April 26, 2009 10:06 PM
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@RedwoodFlyer: Oh I'm sure threatening to cancel does wonders on the price- but for some people I know who use Verizon, they pick out a phone for free in exchange for another 2 year contract.


When they could of bought the \"new\" phone for $30 on E-bay, activated it themselves for free on the website, and saved themselves 2 years of grief and ETF fees if they decided to change carriers. It's only beneficial when you are trading in phones every year or two for really high tech models.

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dragonfire81
April 26, 2009 6:31 PM
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When I worked for a wireless company (Sprint), they describe the fee to us as being required to offset the costs of activating a device on their network.

They said any activation, whether new or an upgrade, since a new phone is being activated on the service, incurs a cost and this activation fee is to offset that cost.

Having said that, I would venture a good THIRD of calls I took were from people upset at activation fees (either initial or upgrade), for the most part we were to credit these back if the customer complained, the fun part was later when I got my ability to credit taken away (I had to go to a supervisor for all credits) because evidently I'd been giving too many of them and costing the company too much money.

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3 replies
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Davezter
April 26, 2009 7:34 PM
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@dragonfire81:


I can maybe see why that is true with Sprint, since they use CDMA and each phone has to be \"activated\" in order for it to be used. However, that argument makes absolutely no sense with a GSM carrier such as T-Mobile. In T-Mobile's case, no phones ever have to be \"activated\" -- the customer just takes their sim card out of the old phone and sticks it in the new phone and that's all there is to it.

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dragonfire81
April 27, 2009 4:31 AM
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@Davezter: Doesn't T-mobile pay for their part of the GSM spectrum and thus would incur a cost activating your phone on their network?

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GearheadGeek
April 27, 2009 1:59 PM
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@dragonfire81: No. They allocate some of the cost to creating/maintaining their network and spectrum to the USE of your phone, but you only have one active phone per SIM card, so there's no cost to them for you to switch your SIM card between different devices.

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unobservant
April 26, 2009 7:13 PM
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@dragonfire81: I wonder how much the company paid out in hours spent dealing with the resulting backlash...

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dancing_bear
April 26, 2009 7:07 PM
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AT&T charges this fee, at least when you upgrade online. Free phones suddenly cost $18 when you check out.

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1 replies
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ajlei
April 26, 2009 7:41 PM
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@dancing_bear: Yeah, I bought my mom and sister new phones for Christmas this past year and that was a nice little addition. Oh well, they love their phones, so at least they're happy.

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unobservant
April 26, 2009 7:12 PM
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Why don't they just increase the price of their phones by $18? Seriously.

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1 replies
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courtarro
April 27, 2009 1:33 PM
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@unobservant: Because then they couldn't claim so many \"free\" phones. It lets them flat-out lie.

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savdavid
April 26, 2009 7:26 PM
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Why don't people just refuse to upgrade? Seriously. That fee would disappear quickly.

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7 replies
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ceilingFANBOY
April 27, 2009 6:46 PM
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@savdavid: If you aren't planning on leaving the company anyway, not upgrading actually saves them money. When you upgrade, they are giving you a phone that costs them a hundred or so and that they would charge $200 for just for committing to an extra year or two. If you don't leave them, they still get the same money minus the $18 without having to give you a phone that they would normally charge $200 for. So, in the long run, not upgrading actually benefits T-Mobile.

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pecan 3.14159265
April 27, 2009 2:11 PM
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@savdavid: I have a LG Chocolate and hate the phone with every fiber of my being. So when my contract is up in a few weeks, you betcha I'm buying an iPhone.

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Andrew Farris
April 26, 2009 11:02 PM
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@savdavid:
Because the telecoms routinely and systematically reduce your coverage area, call quality, and increase your dropped calls on older phones.

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dclamster
April 26, 2009 10:26 PM
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@savdavid: Planned obsolescence. Most cell phones are made to last no more than 2 years. Even with gentle everyday usage, most cell phones self-destruct in that time period. The cell phone companies and their carriers know what they are doing, and they do this on purpose.

Here is a really good wikipedia article about it. It has been going on for decades and permeates every sector of consumer goods.

[en.wikipedia.org]

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Outrun1986
April 26, 2009 11:44 PM
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@dclamster: I have a nokia 6010 from T-mobile and it works just fine, no plans to upgrade until it dies or something. But with the amount I use it, I seriously doubt that will happen anytime soon. Had it from 2005 and it still works. Whatever happened to using things until they don't work anymore?

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dragonfire81
April 27, 2009 4:30 AM
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@Outrun1986: Advertising has us brainwashed to think we aren't cool if we don't have the latest and greatest gizmos.

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Dafrety
April 26, 2009 11:17 PM
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@dclamster: I had a Nokia 3220 since about 2005ish. Still works fine, just old. I know what you're saying with the Planned obsolescence though.

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datruesurfer
April 26, 2009 8:42 PM
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@savdavid: After being stuck with the same phone for two years I'm usually ready to upgrade or port out when my contract is up. Everyone I know is the same way...

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corinthos
April 26, 2009 7:47 PM
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Upgrade fees and crappy pricing for phones that aren't new activations are the whole reason I keep switching carriers every contract. I'd buy them outright but usually notice that the money I save through who I go with would be cheaper than paying the etf.

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datruesurfer
April 26, 2009 8:46 PM
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I'm in contract with T-Mobile for another one and a half years but if this fee is still around when I'm due for an upgrade, I'll be switching to either at&t or Sprint (if they survive). Paying for the privilege to be locked into a two year contract is ridiculous.

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Anonymous
April 26, 2009 8:54 PM
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This is unfortunate. I'm very pleased with my T-Mobile plan and features, and I've paid this fee a few times when upgraded. It was a bonus when I upgraded to my new BlackBerry and I didn't have to pay the $18 fee. Eventually my sister will need a new phone and I'll probably pay it if I can't get it credited, but my plan is too sweet and I'm happy enough with the service that I won't switch unless a better offer comes down the pipeline.

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Kat
April 26, 2009 9:36 PM
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I have AT&T and just upgraded my phone. They charge the $18 upgrade fee too.

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ipodrulz
April 26, 2009 10:16 PM
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I love Canada... but you don't even wanna know about Rogers. If you want to buy a new phone, you can't just pay 18$ and get it. You either have to wait a year or two and then pay for the new phone OR you cancel your 3 year contract, pay for the Early Cancellation Fee and then buy the phone!

I wouldn't mind paying 30$ to just get a new phone.

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coloradogray
April 26, 2009 10:54 PM
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1) Everybody charges an upgrade fee. It's not an excuse, but going to another company isn't going to resolve it. You'll still be getting into a 1-2 year contract for your phone or price plan, and then paying a $30-$40 activation fee.


2) $18 upgrade fee or firing phone reps and closing stores. It is really that simple.

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1 replies
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brbn_nattie
April 27, 2009 11:25 AM
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@coloradogray: I use Verizon Wireless. I have never ever had to pay an upgrade/activation fee on a replacement phone. I also have never paid to get a new phone since I take advantage of their \"new every two\" discount.

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Andrew Farris
April 26, 2009 11:00 PM
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Are you kidding me? An $18 fee to change a single value in a database that describes what type of phone is connected to your account and is expected to be active on the network?

T-mobile won't be winning my business with performance like that.

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1 replies
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jnews
April 27, 2009 1:06 PM
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@Andrew Farris: It's not even that -- the information is automatically updated over the network.

I am a T-mobile post-paid customer, and I bought one of T-mobile's prepaid phones and switched to using it, and the picture of my phone instantly started showing up when I next logged into my online account. I never told anyone that I had switched phones, and I never paid a $18 \"upgrade fee\".

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LJKelley
April 26, 2009 11:17 PM
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Every company has upgrade fees. I'm afraid its this economy that has caused the re-addition.

Sure switch to another carrier that will generally cost your more money plus cost you $35 in activation instead of an $18 upgrade fee. Most customers don't upgrade anyways and don't care about the latest phones so this fee will never hit them.

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bleigh
April 26, 2009 11:31 PM
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i HATE this. verizon (at least where I sell it) doesn't have an upgrade fee, but sprint and AT&T do. what the hell?

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2 replies
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Verucalise (Est.February2008)
April 27, 2009 1:05 AM
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@bleigh: agreed. I've never heard of Verizon charging an upgrade fee. Usually, you are offered a price on the phone with a new 2 year contract, or 1 year contract. (And of course, just buying the phone outright without any contractual terms)


Many of their phones are for free if you are out of contract, mine was 3 years ago. No upgrade fee, no activation fee, nothing. They even sent it 2 day Fed Ex. If this phone breaks, I won't get another one from their website... but my significant other breaks/loses his phone CONSTANTLY (I mean, every 3-4 months) and we just buy the phone on E-bay, activate it for free.

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pecan 3.14159265
April 27, 2009 2:12 PM
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@verucalise: And they give you $50 toward a phone upgrade. We haven't because we're ditching Verizon, but it was a nice thing, even if it was a blatant attempt at keeping us on contract.

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Blueskylaw
April 27, 2009 1:18 AM
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How about a $20 Drive-Away Fee from an eBay motors seller.


ELITEMOTORSGROUP
In addition to the price of the vehicle, a document fee of $150.00 and a $20 Drive-away fee (Non- Illinois residents) is applied to the final price of the vehicle. A $199 Vin etch is included on all vehicles and is etched on every body panel.

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vastrightwing
April 27, 2009 2:23 AM
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I have a 4 year old phone still working just fine. Will I be charged an $18 fee for covering the costs to maintain old technology?

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Anonymous
April 27, 2009 3:04 AM
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This is precisely why I only do prepaid. This way, if I don't like the service, I can find someone else. Honestly, why does everyone feel the need to have a freakin' phone that does everything but make your morning coffee? It's just a phone! If you're that dependent on technology, it's time to unplug yourself.

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pyehac
April 27, 2009 3:16 AM
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This is why I love GSM phones. I just got a new ATT Fuze from Newegg.com at the beginning of this year. Heck, Tmobile's website still thinks I'm using a Nokia 6101 (the same phone I bought when I got my phone number)

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ldnyc
April 27, 2009 3:48 AM
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I've always asked for the upgrade fee to be waived as a courtesy for being a very loyal and profitable customer and I've never been denied. Once or twice I've had to escalate to a supervisor to make it happen, but I've never paid an upgrade fee with T-mobile and don't expect I ever will.

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scootinger
April 27, 2009 6:04 AM
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These \"(upgrade/activation) fees\" are a big fat fucking load of shit. Seriously. How the hell does it cost them $18 (or ANYTHING) to add another phone to their network? Last time I upgraded my phone I was confused as to why such a \"service\" that had to be charged for was necessary. I used an unlocked phone for a while and they didn't have to charge me that fee or anything...

Sadly, it's just another scam on top of everything American wireless carriers do...like charging exorbitant amounts for text messaging that costs practically nothing to run, or AT&T telling me I need to pay 3x as much for data service just because I have a Palm phone. As for the latter, I suppose that if they don't even want to sell said service to me then I'll just stick to wi-fi on my iPod Touch and keep the $$$ out of AT&T's pockets.

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Anonymous
April 27, 2009 6:40 AM
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This is a classic example of a desperate idea from a poor management team. If their CEO was in touch with long term goals, the team holding this idea should have been dismissed, effective immediately. Penalizing a customer for choosing to upgrade their phone / renew their contract / stay with the company, seems more like a desperate company trying to stay afloat with fast, quick income than a stable strong one.

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waggkri
April 27, 2009 1:33 PM
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You can get this waived. I just upgraded a couple days ago, and the guy just called their customer service line for dealers and said I came in before the upgrade fee was reinstated and was told there wouldn't be one. He got them to give me an $18 credit on my account.

Just be persistent and don't let them abuse random fees.

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Cafezinha
April 27, 2009 3:43 PM
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Makes me kind of glad that I'm about to move overseas to a place with no T-Mobile. I'm unhealthily in love with my Sidekick, but with the random fees and less-than-stellar customer service, I'm only sticking with T-Mobile because I'm only in the States for another 3 months.

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TaraMisu
April 27, 2009 4:21 PM
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AT&T also charges this assinine fee. I called to complain, explaining that I just paid $100 for a $6 phone and I refused to pay any extra charges. They took it off my bill but said \"next time\" I will have to pay the fees. I said there will be NO next time. We've been with them for 8 years, you'd think we'd get treated a little better.
I know, I know. *eye roll*

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ManiacalV
April 27, 2009 6:06 PM
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I had been a satisfied T-Mobile customer for years. Recently, my _third replacement_ Shadow was crapping out (that means I was about to get #4 still under warranty) and I basically told them to give me a different phone. I was talked into a G1 by both the 'price cut' since this was a warrantee replacement as well as the great speed of their 3G network. After getting my phone, I noticed that my 'in warranty' replacement was the same price as buying it new (with the same 2 year contract requirements). I also realized that nowhere in my state (or most of the country) is 3G available on their network. Neither the phone rep nor the guy at the _mall store_ where I picked up the phone mentioned that there was no 3G coverage or that my 'warranty replacement' was ignored. I've lost pretty much all of my trust in this company in one transaction; years worth of good service gone down the toilet so they could push out a more expensive phone and contract. This replacement billing is suddenly less shocking. Everyone's hungry right now, but not everyone is taking a bite out of their customers to make ends meet.

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Liam Patrick
April 27, 2009 6:26 PM
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Fuck this. I was going to upgrade my phone (our family contract has been up for over a year) but I think I might just break off on my own and start using AT&T. I'd rather pay out of my own pocket monthly then stay on my family's plan with T-Mobile because they're too lazy to switch.

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balilanai
April 28, 2009 1:15 AM
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Note to self: Do NOT do business with T-mobile.
I call on 100's of you to take the pledge unless T-Mobile cancels the fee.

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Joshua Perry
April 28, 2009 11:46 AM
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To get the upgrade fee waived, threaten to cancel, politely, and the fee will be waived or the retention department will waive the fee and drop the price. Did someone get a g1 for 50 bucks?

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Tonguetied
April 28, 2009 5:06 PM
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Mmmm, and here we were due to get new phones in May...

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