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April 9, 2009 1:09 PM

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Here in maine our supermarkets sell beer, wine and liquor. No problems.

24 replies

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Anonymous

April 9, 2009 8:40 PM

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@ConroyCotta: i dont think any place that sells wine in supermarkets has problems. this is a joke. a friend of mine from affluence.org is being effected financially by the decision- it just doesnt make any sense for anyone. government needs to lay off

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April 9, 2009 2:21 PM

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@ConroyCotta: Someone's already mentioned our predicament in Minnesota, so I won't repeat it. I have to share something I saw while driving through Baton Rouge, though.

I stopped at a gas station, and inside the station was a very large tub filled with ice. In the ice was a wide variety of individual beer cans. Apparently, the idea is to pick up a single cold can after you pay for your gas.

I was happy to get out of Louisiana.

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TheKeg

April 9, 2009 3:35 PM

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@PunditGuy: Bah, it's not that bad! Most of the people buying those single cans like that are paying with change and usually walking anyways. :D

I was going to mention the drive through daquiri/frozen drinks huts but TinkishDelight beat me to it. I love those places. I've seen a place up near Leesville or DeRidder where you can drive through and they have someone waiting on you. You tell them what you want and they go get it for you (cigs, bottles of liquor, wine, cases of beer, etc...). Also saw a place or two like that in either Alabama or Georgia.

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johnva

April 9, 2009 2:33 PM

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@PunditGuy: In the past, it was not illegal to drink and drive in many states (or have an open container while driving); it was only illegal to drive drunk. That's probably a remnant of those days.

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April 9, 2009 2:29 PM

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@PunditGuy: I remember watching something on the news (or it may have been The Daily Show circa Craig Kilbourne) about how Louisiana had frozen, alcoholic Pina Coladas and such available at some drive-thru. The patrons were angry because the state was considering shutting it down.

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verazula

April 9, 2009 2:58 PM

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@TinkishDelight: Drive thru Daiquiri! It's not actually an open container until you put the straw in.

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cjones27

April 9, 2009 2:34 PM

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@TinkishDelight: There's actually a place in Lubbock that does that too. Apparently by leaving the top part of the straw wrapper on, it's a \"closed container\" and thus legal to drive with. Gotta love the loopholes.

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Xmar

April 9, 2009 2:20 PM

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@ConroyCotta: You can pick up beer & wine at the grocery stores here in Texas.

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April 9, 2009 2:16 PM

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@ConroyCotta: Kansas. 3.2 beer only in grocery stores.

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April 9, 2009 2:08 PM

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@ConroyCotta: VA you can get beer and wine in gas stations and supermarkets, you have to got the ABC to get liquor though.

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bilge

April 9, 2009 2:08 PM

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@ConroyCotta: Here in Pennsylvania, our state-run liquor stores sell the hard stuff, beverage distributors sell cases, and delis sell six packs, no problems...no, wait...

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April 9, 2009 2:05 PM

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@ConroyCotta: NC too. Beer and wine in supermarkets and gas stations

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SJActress

April 9, 2009 1:53 PM

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Texas, too.

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AustinTXProgrammer

April 9, 2009 3:03 PM

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@SJActress: To be clear, while the article says wine and Texas certainly allows that to be sold in grocery stores, anything over 14 or 17% (varies by area) is liquor and must be purchased from a liquor store.

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cjones27

April 9, 2009 2:16 PM

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@SJActress: Wrong. Dead wrong. Texas has some strict alcohol laws.

Liquor has to be sold in a separate store.

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CaptZ

April 9, 2009 3:00 PM

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@cjones27: NOT TRUE. Texas does have strict alcohol laws, but in some communities,(mine included) I can now go to Target, Kroger, Walmart and other grocery stores and buy wine and beer. Hard liquor will always be in a seperate store, miles away. Some cities just refuse to be wet cities for fear that it leads to moral decay. Ass backward Texas idiots.

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Xay

April 9, 2009 1:47 PM

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@ConroyCotta: Same thing in Florida. Florida has problems, but selling wine in supermarkets didn't cause them.

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April 9, 2009 1:41 PM

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@ConroyCotta: Same in South Carolina. Of course, SC still has some wacky blue laws and bars still serve liquor in minibottles, but it's SO nice to be able to get champagne at Target!

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Brawndo_The_Thirst_Mutliator

April 9, 2009 3:20 PM

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@Snakeophelia: We killed the mini-bottles a few years ago. The bar you've been going to is just wanting to milk you. I wish we could one day be as ok with our alcohol as maybe California. 7 day purchase abilities, liquor any time at the grocery store, etc...

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johnva

April 9, 2009 1:43 PM

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@Snakeophelia: Actually, SC finally killed the minibottle law a few years ago.

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ncpeters

April 9, 2009 1:40 PM

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@ConroyCotta: Same way here in Iowa, can get alcohol at grocery stores or gas stations. I was visiting a friend in Minnesota recently and we went to the grocery store to get food then had to go to a connected liquor store (same owner as the grocery store) to buy the beer. I don't understand the logic in this.

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Alessar

April 9, 2009 1:36 PM

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@ConroyCotta: Michigan too. It always boggles my mind that there are states with heavily controlled liquor sales systems.

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April 9, 2009 1:20 PM

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Same in California. Of course here in CA, other than BevMo, liquor stores tend to be rather skeezy places in bad neighborhood. Not places I would generally choose to go.

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April 9, 2009 1:28 PM

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@VOIDMunashii: Yea, I have to agree. To save money, you go to the grocery store (or BevMo. I love that place!). Liquor stores or gas stations are where you go when you need to pick up beer or wine last moment, most often when going to a party or something.

Poor New York!

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AshleyKeen

April 9, 2009 1:17 PM

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@ConroyCotta: Same here in Ohio. In fact, Jungle Jim's probably has the largest supply and variety of wine available in the state...

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verazula

April 9, 2009 2:54 PM

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@AshleyKeen: What you fail to realize is that in states like Maine, the liquor is real. Here in the Buckeye State, the liquor is FAKE! Next time you go to Kroger's, find me ONE bottle that's over 42 proof. You can't! Why? Because all the liquor available in non-state run liquor stores is watered down to 42 proof or lower. So yes, but no.

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johnva

April 9, 2009 3:00 PM

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@PerpetualBoredom: What I think you're missing is that it's not just about lower prices. It's just providing people more choices, and people will go to different places for different things. It's not a pure price war, because there are plenty of ways for the independent stores to differentiate themselves. I've lived in numerous places that allowed selling wine in groceries, and they don't really compete on price. The grocery stores only sell the cheap wine, and in many cases they are MORE expensive because what they're selling is convenience, not cheap prices.

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pallendo

April 9, 2009 2:35 PM

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@AshleyKeen: Too bad we can't buy >20% Alcohol spirits in stores. That was a big weirdness that I found when I moved to Ohio from Cali. There I could go into any supermarket and pick up whatever I wanted. Here, I have to go to a State Liquor store.

I hear you on Jungle Jims. I also use the Party Source. They have nearly the same selections on beer and more on spirits, but not nearly as good for wine.

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Jonathan Quinn

April 9, 2009 1:11 PM

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I did not know this about NY. Iowa's pretty sensible about liquor. I tried to purchase three buck chuck in Minneapolis on a Sunday, and was prevented because of state laws. Don't make Jebus angry by drinking on Sunday!!

The underage drinking is bogus, what 17 year old drinks wine to get drunk?

14 replies

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Scarlet_Begonias_and_a_touch_of_the_Blues

April 9, 2009 5:01 PM

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@Jonathan Quinn: Boones Farm Snow Creek Berry :)...that sure takes me back to being 17 again...

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calquist

April 9, 2009 2:18 PM

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@Jonathan Quinn: You can't beat the price on a jug of Carlo Rossi.

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wgrune

April 9, 2009 4:20 PM

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Plus, they have the little handle so you can stick your pinkey through it and look sophisticated when you sip from the jug!

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April 9, 2009 2:00 PM

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@Jonathan Quinn: The one that blew my mind was about 10 years ago during a business trip to Oklahoma and finding out that they only still have pretty crazy 3.2 beer laws. I don't think we could even order a beer in a restaurant on a Sunday...

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amhorach

April 9, 2009 1:31 PM

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@Jonathan Quinn:Goths drink wine (or they did, 20 years ago) Who says they're drinking the wine to get drunk? One sip is the same as a bottle where the law is concerned.

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April 9, 2009 1:29 PM

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@Jonathan Quinn: Does Boonesfarm count?

That right there is the ultimate 2 buck chuck and yes, it was consumed in vast quantities by many teenagers during my growing up years...

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April 9, 2009 1:56 PM

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@SanDiegoDude: Uh not quite. \"2 buck chuck\" is cheap wine that doesn't suck. Boone's Farm is more like what Fred Sanford used to call \"Ripple.\" Ick.

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April 9, 2009 1:49 PM

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@SanDiegoDude: I think you mean two-buck upchuck.

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Jonathan Quinn

April 9, 2009 2:02 PM

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No it's quite good. As a consumerist reader, I'm surprised you're put off by it's price. I enjoy a good wine at 5 bucks more then a great wine at 25. @floraposte:

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johnva

April 9, 2009 2:16 PM

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@Jonathan Quinn: It's not just the price. I wouldn't call it \"quite good\", except for for the price.

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wgrune

April 9, 2009 1:37 PM

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Ha, you have got to love \"wine\" that come in pina colada flavor.

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April 9, 2009 1:22 PM

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@Jonathan Quinn: My years in high school were much improved by girls who drank wine.

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bdsakx

April 9, 2009 1:21 PM

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@Jonathan Quinn: Seventeen year olds who like getting drunk, I imagine. Some like the thrill of the drunk feeling and the relaxation it usually brings. You do what you got to do, and if wine is one way, the other alcoholic beverages are merely other choices to that goal.

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johnva

April 9, 2009 1:34 PM

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@bdsakx: Underage drinking isn't bad in and of itself, in my opinion. It's only bad when it leads to other problems. Wine also doesn't really lend itself as well as your typical American macroswill lager to drinking to get drunk, because for me anyway it gives me a headache and stomachache to drink down a whole bottle of wine. It also has an \"upscale\" image. And finally I don't see that there is much evidence that teens will find it easier to get it if it's in groceries. Wine is available in groceries in numerous states, and the teenagers still don't drink it nearly as much as cheap beer.

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April 9, 2009 1:18 PM

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@Jonathan Quinn: They have the prohibited Sunday package sales in Georgia, too. Ironically, one of the larger (if not largest) opponent groups to changing the law is liquor store owners. They claim they will lose profits if they have to stay open another day because everyone has been \"trained\" to make their purchases on Saturday, so sales will not necessarily go up significantly. Also, they'd be competing with grocery stores, which are already open on Sundays and can sell beer and wine.

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mavkato

April 9, 2009 1:17 PM

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@Jonathan Quinn: i played hockey with a 15 year old that got drunk on wine regularly.

and i agree, minnesota has some really complicated liquor laws.

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April 9, 2009 1:16 PM

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I agree with the decision to stop the plan. The small business owners are right, they wouldn't be able to compete with the volume discounts and the ease of access would cause their business to decrease.

There is a small wine shop in my town and I love it. The have bottles floor to ceiling and the staff is extremely knowledgeable. I know nothing about wine but they always help me select a great bottle.

Small businesses are what give \"main street\" part of its charm. Laws like this one only serve to gentrify neighborhoods and make it harder for small businesses to survive. I will happily go to an extra store if it means superior service and a wider selection.

14 replies

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April 9, 2009 10:41 PM

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I agree with a lot of things in this thread, but what I do not agree with is the attitude that small businesses should have a special right to exist just because they are small.

Your argument sounds sensible, but to follow it through to its end you would have to equally say that supermarkets should not sell fruits and vegetables (a mom & pop store should do that), they should not sell bread (surely a local baker will bake it), they should not sell cheese (you've always had a local fromagerie, right?), and so on. In other words, your argument implies that supermarkets should not exist at all, and methinks that if the government mandated all supermarkets to be closed, there would be an uproar.

That being said, I have a few observations:

1) When I was under 21, I almost never obtained alcohol from a store of any kind. It was always pilfered from my or my friends' parents, or purchased by an over-21 friend. In my experience, this bizarre separation of liquor, beer, and wine in NY is idiotic. (You can buy beer in supermarkets, even beer with a 7.2% alcohol content).

2) Now being 29, I find it very inconvenient that when I want a bottle of wine I have to buy it between the hours of 10-8 (M-Th), or 10-9 (F-Sa), or 12-5 (Su); when liquor stores in my area are open. I get off of work at 7 (if I don't have to stay late), so if I don't think of it on the way home then I can't buy wine. When I was working in the city, my train usually wouldn't get be back home until 8-8:30, so I couldn't have a glass of wine unless I planned ahead from the previous weekend.

There is a 24-hour supermarket about 7 mins. from my house, though.

I don't want to see an end to small businesses, but the government has regulated this to the point where I'm annoyed that these businesses are forced/allowed/encouraged to exist when they provide and inconvenience and a disservice to citizens like me. (This is, of course, the fault of the guys and gals in Albany, not the small business owners).

Anyway, I hate to w[h]ine further, so I'll end my rant by saying that I work for a small business that does online recruiting for one particular industry. Like what Monster.com does. We've been in business for 8 years because we provide more personalized and customized service. Would it be good for business if the government said that Monster.com could no longer sell resumes, so as to favor small businesses? Yes. Would I vote for that? No. Because it's asinine.

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valthun

April 9, 2009 9:00 PM

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@mergatroy6: Your arguments points to that specific store surviving. Knowledgeable and friendly staff. They know what they are selling, and will maintain a high quality of wine in the store. They may take an initial hit, but people will realize that their favorite wine isn't available at the grocer and will go back to the wine store.

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Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!)

April 9, 2009 5:05 PM

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@mergatroy6: Small independent stores ABSOLUTELY compete. Here in Illinois supermarkets can have full liquor sections in the main store (i.e., doesn't have to be segregated as it does in some states -- in Indiana, f'ex, only beer and wine are in the main store). The supermarket has limited floor space for a liquor section, so it's necessarily limited. I'm sure they get volume discounts, but it's on stuff like Barefoot, Black Opal, Gallo, etc. Which are all fine and I certainly buy, but it's not a very exciting selection.

The specialty liquor and/or wine stores are typically very competitive on non-sale price and they have a far wider selection. When I'm going to buy WINE, I go to the wine specialty store. When I'm grabbing a bottle to cook with or because I want a basic table wine, the convenience of the supermarket is nice -- I wouldn't make a special trip to the wine store for that.

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CaptZ

April 9, 2009 3:03 PM

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@mergatroy6: Fucke em if they can't compete. Survival of the fittest. If you can't do business with the big boys.....then get out of the business.

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dashjdot

April 9, 2009 2:13 PM

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Agreed with the \"but the world didn't end for the other states\" arguments above. But what I really wanted to point out is that I don't think \"gentrify\" means what you think it means. One of the arguments against the change is that it will de-gentrify. I disagree, but I don't think anyone else is worried about gentrification here.

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t-r0y

April 9, 2009 2:04 PM

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@mergatroy6: Then you keep going to those small stores. Me, I want special laws off the books -- don't favor one business in preference of another.

Besides, I think the liquor/wine shops will survive.

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April 9, 2009 2:09 PM

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@t-r0y: Totally agree.

I believe any law should only be kept if you can truly say \"if this law had never been passed, would we pass it now?\". If it can stand on it's own merits, fine, otherwise the fact that the law is the status quo should not enter into it.

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Saboth

April 9, 2009 2:04 PM

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We have what is called a free market. If small businesses can't compete, then they go out of business. It isn't the government's job to insure their survival by allowing artificially high prices.

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Xay

April 9, 2009 1:50 PM

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@mergatroy6: Florida has liquor stores and wine in supermarkets. We even has specialty wine only stores. For people who like wine other than Franzia and Sutter Home.

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April 9, 2009 1:34 PM

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@mergatroy6: My state sells wine, beer, and booze in super markets and shockingly liquor stores are still open. No grocery store is ever going to have the selection that a liquor store has.

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cabjf

April 9, 2009 1:30 PM

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@mergatroy6: And yet states where wine can be sold in grocery stores still have functioning liquor stores. Because, you know, they sell liquor and spirits along with wine. And if small business owners feel they cannot compete without some artificially imposed limit on the competition, then why should they still be in business?

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me and the sysop

April 9, 2009 1:48 PM

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@cabjf: Exactly.

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johnva

April 9, 2009 1:24 PM

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@mergatroy6: They sell wine in the groceries here, and small independent wine stores compete just fine mainly because they sell a wider variety of more niche products rather than just wine that has more mass-market appeal (which is what the grocery stores all choose to stock). Also, they're actually cheaper than the groceries. I don't know if this is because their profit margins are smaller or what, but they manage it fine somehow.

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johnva

April 9, 2009 1:28 PM

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@johnva: Oh, and I asked the owner of our favorite local wine shop one time how they do this and he said it's because they don't really compete with the grocery stores on wine sales. He said the typical customer who buys wine at the grocery is the kind of person who wants a $5-10 bottle of wine, while the typical customer at his shop is the type of customer who might buy a $50 bottle on occasion. Groceries mostly don't stock $50 bottles of wine, because their profit is based on moving lots of volume rather than making a larger profit per item.

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April 9, 2009 1:32 PM

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@johnva: That makes sense, when I buy wine at the grocery store it tends to be the variety that follows the color-animal part formula (yellow tail, black swan) but if I'm getting a gift or celebrating I go to the wine shop in my neighborhood

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April 9, 2009 1:17 PM

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I buy more wine now that I live in a state that sells it in the grocery store, but i do find that having it in some of the smaller stores does sometimes limit the grocery selection.

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VideoOrItDidn'tHappen_GitEmSteveDave

April 9, 2009 1:17 PM

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Is Gov. Paterson blind to the fact that if he added a little extra tax to those who buy from the supermarket, they probably wouldn't mind the little extra cost for the convenience, and it would make money for the state.

6 replies

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April 9, 2009 2:47 PM

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@VideoOrItDidn'tHappen_GitEmSteveDave: Actually, putting another tax on wine, convenience or not, would probably be the straw that broke the camel's back. There's too many taxes and too much wasteful spending here that people are sick of it.

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cabjf

April 9, 2009 1:31 PM

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@VideoOrItDidn'tHappen_GitEmSteveDave: Is that some sort of a blind joke? They way I heard it was that in the usual closed door negotiations, he had to take that proposal off the table in order to get some other proposal put into the budget.

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VideoOrItDidn'tHappen_GitEmSteveDave

April 9, 2009 2:50 PM

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@cabjf: Yes. Yes it was a blind joke.

<Disclosure> I helped raise two Seeing Eye puppies and support many blind charities </Disclosure>

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CaptZ

April 9, 2009 3:05 PM

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@VideoOrItDidn'tHappen_GitEmSteveDave: If you can't make a blind joke without backing down....don;t make the joke. I laughed....Seems like Patterson can't see shit.....he's killing the state.

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VideoOrItDidn'tHappen_GitEmSteveDave

April 9, 2009 3:35 PM

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@CaptZ: I rarely watch SNL, but I was watching when they did the Paterson sketch the night Pohler left. I was rolling on the ground laughing. Then they apologized when Paterson said he \"didn't see the humor\" in the sketch, and I was like, the first time they were funny in a long while, and they will never do it again.

I also laughed when Scott on American Idol(the blind guy Seacrest tried to high five) sang \"The Search Is Over\", which includes the line \"Now I look into your eyes,I can see forever, the search is over\".

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CaptZ

April 9, 2009 6:30 PM

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@VideoOrItDidn'tHappen_GitEmSteveDave: \"Then they apologized when Paterson said he \"didn't see the humor\" in the sketch, and I was like, the first time they were funny in a long while, and they will never do it again.\"

I agree......he didnt see the humor, cause he sees nothing.....he made a joke of himself.

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Verucalise (Est.February2008)

April 9, 2009 1:38 PM

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@cabjf: Gosh, I just hate Paterson and NY in general anymore. (Check out Patersons approval rating- I'm actually wishing for the whoring Governor to return!)

Same with GESD's comment, they raised the taxes so exorbitantly high on cigarettes that they are actually losing out on revenue when people decide to quit.

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DerangedRoleModel

April 9, 2009 1:26 PM

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@VideoOrItDidn'tHappen_GitEmSteveDave: lol puns

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April 9, 2009 1:25 PM

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@VideoOrItDidn'tHappen_GitEmSteveDave:

I'm not sure the constitution would allow that. Equal protection clause.

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Etoiles

April 9, 2009 1:19 PM

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I grew up in Massachusetts, where beer and wine were NEVER sold in convenience stores, drug stores, or supermarkets (except a very few supermarkets that had separate sections that could be closed off).

Then I moved to New York City, and every damn CVS and Duane Reade and corner bodega sells beer. Until I saw this article, I don't think I even noticed consciously that they didn't sell wine.

(Here in the VA 'burbs of DC, where I now live, every single store that sells food sells beer and wine both. And liquor stores seem to be state-owned.)

3 replies

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sockrockinbeats

April 9, 2009 2:03 PM

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@Etoiles: it's the same in delaware--you can only buy liquor in liquor stores, period.

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chiieddy

April 9, 2009 1:58 PM

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@Etoiles: This same initiative failed in MA last year. It's a shame.

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April 9, 2009 1:22 PM

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@Etoiles: ABC is state owned and I must say every one I have ever been in is extremely depressing.I grew up in Colorado where 3.2 beer could be bought at the grocery store and beer/wine/liquor stores were closed on Sunday, but they recently reversed that

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April 9, 2009 1:23 PM

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Wine is available in supermarkets in the SOUTH. Do we really want to be like them? Seriously?

4 replies

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April 9, 2009 2:42 PM

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@winstonthorne:
Do we really want to be like them ? That is a very wise remark and not small minded or bigoted at all

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johnva

April 9, 2009 3:19 PM

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@HomersBrain: Yeah, it sounds to me like the South is more progressive on this issue than the \"enlightened\" states like New York and Pennsylvania.

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Robobot

April 9, 2009 5:04 PM

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@Vanilla5: I'm underage and I've already asked my parents for a bottle of my favorite dessert wine for my 21st birthday. Then again I'm underage and I know my way around wine and spirits, so I guess that just speaks volumes about the effectiveness of our ridiculous liquor laws.

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gStein_*|bringing starpipe back|*

April 9, 2009 5:03 PM

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@johnva: although NC does not allow alcohol sales on sunday before something like noon, and all liquor sales are through a state-controlled ABC store

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April 9, 2009 1:44 PM

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@winstonthorne: \"Seriously?\"

Please tell me you're not really serious. Try \"Come ON :)\" or \"Ya Know?\"

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April 9, 2009 1:30 PM

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@winstonthorne: I find living in the (quasi) South rather depressing and I enjoy the easy availabilty of wine and beer

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PersonalBest

April 9, 2009 1:29 PM

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I grew up in a North American city where alcohol cannot be sold in supermarkets. I stayed there until I was a young adult, and let me tell you, it was a bloody inconvenience to not be able to purchase wine with the rest of my groceries.

Now I live in a country in Europe where alcohol isn't regarded as such a BFD and am all the happier for it.

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April 9, 2009 1:32 PM

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MADD not quite as bad at PETA, but close.

5 replies

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VideoOrItDidn'tHappen_GitEmSteveDave

April 9, 2009 3:37 PM

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@HIV 2 Elway Resurrected: Well, at least MADD doesn't euthanize the victims of drunk driving like PETA does most animals \"rescued\" by them.

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johnva

April 9, 2009 1:54 PM

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@HIV 2 Elway Resurrected: A closer analogy is that MADD = Women's Christian Temperance Union, 2009 edition. WCTU. They have morphed from being a narrowly focused group working to reduce drunk driving to being a neo-Prohibitionist group. I used to argue with them on their forums before they shuttered them entirely because they couldn't take the criticism the Internets was heaping on them.

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wgrune

April 9, 2009 1:39 PM

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@HIV 2 Elway Resurrected:

Meh, I think they are worse. Thanks to MADD we all have to be nervous about driving home after having one beer.

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varro

April 10, 2009 2:44 AM

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@wgrune: Watch them cry about personal alcohol testers or coin-operated ones in bars.

I thought the purpose of those is to keep yourself under .08....

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April 9, 2009 2:21 PM

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@wgrune: Or WALKING home which is just bullshit.

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wgrune

April 9, 2009 2:30 PM

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@TinkishDelight:

Yeah or being on a bicycle, roller blades, your daughter's trike, or by doing the right thing and sleeping it off in your car.

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johnva

April 9, 2009 2:29 PM

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@TinkishDelight: ...or sleeping it off in your car (= DUI, if you have your car keys with you), or being drunk in a bar, some places, even with a designated driver...MADD's ultimate goal is to ensure that you can be arrested wherever you choose to drink and no matter how responsible you try to be about not putting others in danger.

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VideoOrItDidn'tHappen_GitEmSteveDave

April 9, 2009 3:39 PM

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@johnva: If you ever decide to sleep it off in your car, throw your car keys in the trunk. Hard for anyone to say you can operate/were operating your vehicle if the keys are not \"in your control and/or area of control\".

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johnva

April 9, 2009 4:48 PM

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@VideoOrItDidn'tHappen_GitEmSteveDave: Unfortunately, even doing that wouldn't protect you in some states. People have been convicted of DUI just for walking home drunk with their car keys in their pocket.

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Spectre1125

April 9, 2009 4:42 PM

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@johnva: Oof. That was a little racist, don't you think, Colonel Sanders? I'm getting the ACLU, and we are going to suuue you! Now let us never speak of this particular topic again. If it comes up I will put my hands over my eyes and scream \"LALALALA YOU'RE AN IDIOT LALALALA\" over and over again until I win.

A good day, to youse.

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johnva

April 9, 2009 4:49 PM

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@Spectre1125: I don't understand your comment or whether it's sarcastic or not? Are you drunk :)?

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VideoOrItDidn'tHappen_GitEmSteveDave

April 9, 2009 5:15 PM

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@johnva: That was a response to your reply to the comment about the \"SOUTH\" a few above this one.

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April 9, 2009 1:32 PM

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Thirty five other states already sell wine in supermarkets. There was a push to do this here in NY in hopes that it would expand sales and increase tax receipts from wine sales. The supermarkets would only stock top selling varieties, leaving the independent liquor stores to sell everything as before. The liquor store owners lobbied hard and managed to kill the bill.

I remember buying wine AND SPIRITS at the grocery stores in CA and HI, and it was damn convienent too.

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t0ph

April 9, 2009 1:33 PM

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I live in NY and used to live in CA where the supermarkets do carry wine and liqueur and I am against the carrying those products in supermarkets, I even signed a petition against and for one reason:
I support my local businesses. I do not want to see the livelihood of anyone go out the window...I mean really, do you want to buy your booze from Waldbaums, Stop and Shop or even Target???

Besides, my local liqueur store gives a $20 credit for every $200 I spend =)

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Tmoney02

April 9, 2009 4:26 PM

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@PerpetualBoredom: I mean really, do you want to buy your booze from Waldbaums, Stop and Shop or even Target???

Why yes, yes I do. Too snooty to mix with the masses?

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t0ph

April 9, 2009 5:58 PM

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@Tmoney02: Not at all!

I just don't like the idea of small business being stamped out one by one by mass retailers.

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April 10, 2009 12:56 AM

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@PerpetualBoredom:

I for one like the convenience of being able to do all my shopping in one place. I also like places like Trader Joe's, which have decent selection of affordable wines- my parents live in NJ near the only one in the state that sells wine, and I usually pick up a case when I visit them from 2-buck-chuckless MD

Protecting small businesses is not the government's job. If a small business does a better job of providing a service than a big one, I will go there - but guess what, if a small business doesn't have any competition thanks to stupid laws, they have a lot less incentive to provide good service.

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t0ph

April 11, 2009 6:45 PM

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@madanthony: no, no , you guys are right. We need these big box stores everywhere so we can beetch about them on the Consumerist.

My bad.

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stacy75

April 9, 2009 2:33 PM

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@PerpetualBoredom: This is silly.

I have a good friend that owns a wine shop. He actually consistently sells his wine at a LOWER price than the local grocery stores. He even sells below Sam's Club a lot of the time. Business is booming for him and he is within 1 mile of 3 other grocery stores.

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johnva

April 9, 2009 1:36 PM

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@PerpetualBoredom: Read the posts above. They don't end up selling to the same markets.

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t0ph

April 9, 2009 2:04 PM

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@johnva: AS far as I know, the proposal said nothing about selling in the same markets, nor was there a definition of what constituted a market.

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johnva

April 9, 2009 2:09 PM

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@PerpetualBoredom: That's not my point. I'm saying that the market naturally segments into \"high end\" and \"low end, mass market\" segments. The independent stores will cater to the former, while the grocery stores will cater to the latter.

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t0ph

April 9, 2009 2:13 PM

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@johnva: I still vote nay.

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johnva

April 9, 2009 2:18 PM

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@PerpetualBoredom: Why?

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t0ph

April 9, 2009 2:33 PM

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@johnva: Because initial proposals and stated intentions such as this have a way, after time, of ultimately benefiting the corporate entities which were behind the propositions or bills in the first place. In the end, the small business owners will be hurt. If there were not a budget defect, Patterson would not even proposing this.

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johnva

April 9, 2009 2:38 PM

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@PerpetualBoredom: What I'm telling you is that that isn't really the case, if the other 35 states are an example. It's true that some small business may be hurt, but the good small businesses will not be. And ultimately I don't agree that the government should use weird arbitrary regulations just to prop up subpar businesses that couldn't survive otherwise.

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t0ph

April 9, 2009 2:50 PM

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@johnva: While agree with you that the gov't should not 'prop' up subpar business' in any industry, I believe that the bigger chain places artificially LOWER the bar as they can absorb losses longer than a mom and pop.

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t0ph

April 9, 2009 2:48 PM

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@johnva: @stacy75: It's not SILLY - It is my opinion.

Just because 35 other states are doing it, does it make it the correct way to conduct business? I seriously do not understand the mentality allowing corporate entities, be they supermarkets, discount stores or whatever other big box store you'd want to name, corner in on EVERY aspect of retail, just for the sake of saving consumers a few pennies money or creating revenue for the state.

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t0ph

April 9, 2009 2:35 PM

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@PerpetualBoredom: He'd turn a blind eye...

Sorry. Could. Not. Help. My. Self.

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Chmeeee

April 9, 2009 1:35 PM

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Here in Connecticut, they can't sell wine in the grocery stores, but they can sell beer. In my experience, its significantly more expensive there, I think you actually are paying for the convenience. A 12-pack of Sam is $17 at Stop & Shop, $12 at the mom & pop shop thats literally one door down.

Unrelated, but it seems that alcohol awareness groups and the like will just automatically oppose any legislation that actually allows people to buy alcohol. If the grocery stores already sell beer, then the access is already there. Teenagers are not exactly major wine consumers.

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April 9, 2009 1:37 PM

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In Michigan you can get any form of alcohol at the local grocery store.

We even have one Meijer store in the GR area that has over 1,000 sq of floor space for just wine.

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April 9, 2009 1:43 PM

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Pennsylvania is THE WORST. Grocery stores sell nothing alcoholic. Cases of beer can be bought only at case stores. State-run liquor stores carry wine and liquor. And if you want a six-pack of beer, you have to go to A BAR. So, yes, if you're planning a party where you need orange juice, wine, vodka, and a case of Bud, you're talking four different stops.

On my one and only visit to Arizona, I stopped in at a Walgreen's with a full-service liquor store attached to it that was open on a Sunday. THAT is how civilized people live.

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April 9, 2009 6:12 PM

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@Snakeophelia: I lived in PA my whole life until moving to MD a couple years ago (I'm 26). Having experienced both the state store/beer distributor dichotomy of PA and the more liberal system here in MD (beer/wine/liquor sold together at private stores, including some supermarkets), I believe I'm the only person in the world who actually prefers the PA system! Here's my case:
1. The state-owned stores all had uniform pricing, so there was no need to \"shop around.\"
2. They all had the same products so you knew what your choices were. The selection was very good for liquor, although maybe not as good for wine (don't buy wine often).
3. The prices (for liquor anyway) were decent. I might find a bottle here in MD for $1-2 cheaper than PA, but it's just as likely $1-2 more than PA.
4. Buying beer by the case is much cheaper and more convenient for me than buying an armload of 6-packs. My friends here in MD always say \"but what if you only want 6 or 12 beers?\" To which I reply \"why on earth would you want less than 24 beers?\" ;-)
I'm sure growing up (and turning 21) in PA has conditioned me somewhat to this system. I suppose the lack of one-stop-shopping in PA is an inconvenience to some, but I don't seem to be bothered by those sorts of things. Just my two cents worth...

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mbz32190

April 9, 2009 2:19 PM

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@Snakeophelia: Some Wegmans supermarkets are starting to sell beer in PA. Since they can classify past of their store as a \"restaurant\", they can sell up to 2 6 packs for carryout.

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pax

April 9, 2009 4:00 PM

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@mbz32190: Wegmans FTW. Having grown up in PA and since transplanted to NYC, I am familiar with both Wegmans and the insane, inane \"state store\" system. I even worked at Wegmans in high school. It's a nice company.

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tbax929

April 9, 2009 5:27 PM

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@pax:
I moved to AZ from PA and it's still weird for me to see liquor/beer in the supermarket.

It's weird, but I still buy it.

Also - I miss Wegmans.

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April 9, 2009 2:13 PM

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@Snakeophelia: I was going to post basically the same rant about PA. I've also had a beer distributor tell me they couldn't sell me beer after 4 PM if I wasn't 25. I turned 21 about a month and a half ago and have yet to buy beer in this state because the distributors are so out of the way, plus that 4 PM thing. Even beer in grocery stores would be a massive step forwards.

Though, your example is actually only 3 stops since the liquor stores sell both hard liquor and wine. But if for some reason you needed a case and a 6-pack, you're back up to 4.

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rte148

April 9, 2009 2:00 PM

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@Snakeophelia: or the drive through stores like in FL. What do we have to do to be treated like fucking adults?

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Vanilla5

April 9, 2009 1:45 PM

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Yes - because underage kids are just clawing at themselves to get a good dessert wine.

2 replies

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Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!)

April 9, 2009 5:10 PM

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@Vanilla5: Actually, the biggest underaged-related problem with supermarket wine here in Illinois is that underaged cashiers aren't allowed to run the wine over the scanner. So the 16-year-old kid has to call over the next checker or the manager to run the bottle over the scanner for you. (It used to be 18 to serve/sell, 21 to pour, but it might just be 21 full stop now for liquor sales.)

Supermarkets are a terrible place to try to buy your underaged liquor. They're all brightly-lit and concerned about ID and stuff.

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April 9, 2009 5:22 PM

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@Eyebrows McGee (on Twitter: LPetelle): Before I had a VA license I bought beer at a safeway. The cashier had it sent upstairs for verification. Many of the small ethnic restaurants near where I grew up were pretty lax on checking id for booze, so thats the underage drinking route I took

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April 9, 2009 1:46 PM

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\"(uh, know any teens who crack open a bottle of Merlot on a Friday night?)\"

Back when I was a teen, the wines that made their way to a party on a Friday night were usually of the boxed variety.

2 replies

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April 9, 2009 1:51 PM

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@socialSTD: or Boones

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acknight

April 9, 2009 2:04 PM

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@edwardso: And Boones can be bought alongside beer and wine coolers. You can even buy Boones at Kmarts in NY - Kmarts!

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johnva

April 9, 2009 2:11 PM

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@acknight: Wow, you can already buy that crap at the groceries and convenience stores? That makes the MADD arguments even more dishonest and invalid.

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acknight

April 9, 2009 5:55 PM

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@johnva: Yep. Beer, wine coolers, anything IIRC as long as it's under 6% or so.

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WiglyWorm must cease and decist

April 9, 2009 1:49 PM

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Grocery stores in Ohio can sell wine and beer, but no liquor. Mom and pop shops still do just fine in ohio, and I can promise you that I have never once seen someone go to the store, buy a bottle of wine, get in their car, down it, and then drive off.

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kjherron

April 9, 2009 2:57 PM

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@WiglyWorm: Grocery stores in Ohio can sell distilled spirits if they've been cut to less than 21% alcohol. They need a license for this separate from their wine/beer license, and some stores may not bother, but I've seen reduced-alcohol vodka, rum, etc. for sale at places like CVS and Sam's Club.

Anything 21% alcohol and stronger can only be sold at special state agency stores. Some of these agencies are located within grocery stores, but they're isolated and separate from the grocery store's beer/wine section.

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adamcz

April 9, 2009 1:49 PM

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Here in NJ, there's some crazy law where some grocery stores can sell wine but not others. I'm not sure of the details, but none of the stores near my house sell wine, so I have to make two stops each week. Very annoying.

From time to time, I'll go to the Wegman's that *does* sell wine, and I can't think of any good reason why NJ couldn't allow every Wegman's to operate just like that. Honestly, what reason could there be? Don't even try to tell me that underage kids are somehow purchasing wine from Wegman's.

2 replies

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April 9, 2009 4:55 PM

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Liquor licenses are very heavily restricted in New Jersey, with the numbers per town based on their populations back in 1947 or so. A municipality is only allowed to have a certain number of on-premises liquor licenses and a certain number of package store licenses based on its population. If a new liquor license is ever to be issued (because of population increases or such) it must be by auction.

Most grocery stores don't sell beer or wine because they simply can't get the license, and even if they could, it may cost them over $1,000,000 depending on where they're located. If your local grocery store is selling wine, it probably has one of the rare beer and wine only licenses that the state no longer issues. You can check out all of the laws online and it's pretty absurd.

The high cost and low availability of liquor licenses is also why there are so many BYOB restaurants in the state. It's also why when Kings was sold to Marks and Spencer back in the 80's, the original owners retained the wine and liquor stores.

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April 9, 2009 5:19 PM

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@Powerlurker: I love BYOB restaurants. When we were in Montreal we saved so much money since most places we went to were near convienience stores that sold decent wine

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bohemian

April 9, 2009 1:49 PM

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Sioux Falls had strict hours when alcohol could be sold and limits on hard liquor. So Hyvee built separate liquor stores connected to their grocery stores. As soon as the last one was built they changed the liquor laws so all alcohol could be sold in the grocery stores 7 days a week. Someone on our city council obviously hates Hyvee.

It is really nice to be able to pick up something while at the grocery store rather than having to make a trip elsewhere. I just do not understand some of the heavy handed liquor laws. PA has to have the worst.

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April 9, 2009 1:54 PM

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God forbid anyone has to change their business model (read stop price gouging) to be competitive with volume retailers. Most Mom and Pop locations can choke, most don't have a selection or decent price point. The ones that do offer service, selection, and decent pricing will survive.

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johnva

April 9, 2009 2:02 PM

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@th1nwhiteduke: Like I said, here the good local wine stores compete just fine because they have great service (you can call them up and they will pull wine from the shelves for you to just pick up later if you know what you want), better quality control (they actually store their wine properly, in a room with a depressed room temperature and no fluorescent lights), they carry 50x the variety the grocery stores do, including much higher-end wine, and they are actually cheaper than the groceries and offer case discounts and such. And they do a very brisk business...the place is always crowded when I go there. They also sell fancy beer that is impossible to find anywhere else. A place like that deserves to survive, and will.

Stores that are just coasting on their built-in state-provided monopoly deserve to lose out to the groceries.

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rte148

April 9, 2009 1:58 PM

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and you can't buy beer in liquor stores in NYC.

My drug dealer never asked me for ID, so screw liquor.

1 replies

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JohnOB1

April 9, 2009 5:32 PM

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@rte148: That is one irresponsible drug dealer then!

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April 9, 2009 2:01 PM

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As a resident of MD, I do look across the Potomac with envy at the availability of beer and wine in VA grocery stores, as well as the selection available across the state. With Montgomery County in full control (and ownership) of liquor imports into the area, I don't see this changing any time soon.

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April 9, 2009 2:02 PM

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I know many states have much worse liquor laws than NY (like bars only allowed to pour liquor from the tiny bottles, Utah with it's sponsors and limits on alcohol levels, PA only selling by the case or something etc. etc.) but I still find it very odd that I can't buy beer and a bottle of vodka in the same place.
Beer Distributors only sell beer and soda, liquor stores sell everything else.

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April 9, 2009 2:02 PM

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The con arguments are all a great steaming pile of crap. This \"ZOMG we liquor store owners won't survive if we have to compete with grocery stores\" argument is especially rich. For one thing, I've been to some grocery stores where they sell wine, and I'm here to tell you, it's nothing to write home about. Grocery stores are in the business of selling groceries. If I can't get my cats' favorite brand of cat food because my grocery store cut the pet food section in half to make room for wine, guess what. I'm going to another store for my pet food (I love my kittehs that much). While I'm there, I'm doing all my other shopping.

So grocery stores will probably NOT going to do all that much redecorating so they can offer 5000 varieties of Chilean merlot. More likely, they'll figure out what most people drink and offer that. All you wine snobs will still have to go to the specialty wine store for your Romulan ale.

As for the weak-ass arguments offered by MADD and the other \"Prohibition didn't work, so we'll make buying booze a big pain in the ass\" groups, if any of these arguments about teen drinking held any water whatsoever, why not suggest that grocery stores not be allowed to sell beer, either. Give that trade to Mom and Pop in their grubby little liquor store across the street. Surely restricting sales of 30-packs of Natty Light to a small number of stores that specialize in carding people would do more to keep underage drunk drivers off the road than keeping wine out of grocery stores. But I never hear that argument, so I'll just assume they're all a part of the militant supporters of the status quo, just like the liquor store lobby.

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cc82

April 9, 2009 2:19 PM

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@HurtsSoGood:
I dunno, Whole Foods, Trader Joes, even the nicer Harris Teeters down here in NC have pretty decent wine and beer selections...

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johnva

April 9, 2009 2:24 PM

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@cc82: I've been to all of those places, in NC and VA, and they don't carry the same variety of higher-end beer and wine that the local stores do. They carry a pretty large variety, but 90% of it is cheap wine and/or much more expensive than the independent stores (in Whole Foods' specific case).

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UrIt

April 9, 2009 2:16 PM

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they should and they should have a section of \"Homegrown\" wines like from the fingerlakes and surrounding vineyards, to promote local farmers

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April 9, 2009 2:18 PM

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@snowburnt: That always blew my mine. Especially since it's COLD beer at a gas station. It's amazing that hasn't been an issue.

In MD it's all state run and over the top expensive. I'm only 23 and I've never been carded in my life. 35 and under my foot. The argument of having state-run liquor stores to decrease underage drinking is just not valid.

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April 9, 2009 2:35 PM

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@TinkishDelight: That's only Montgomery County, MD AFAIK. For a time I worked in PG which had privately-owned liquor stores.

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April 10, 2009 12:48 AM

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Having lived only in Baltimore City and Baltimore County, I never realized there were parts of MD that were state run.

Of course, Baltimore City has it's own sets of odd laws... I remember driving around on Sunday nights when i was in college, trying to find one of the few liquor stores that was open on Sundays (most BC liquor licenses are 6 day, but there are a handful of 7 day).

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nrich239

April 9, 2009 2:28 PM

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@TinkishDelight: MD is not all state run. It depends on the county. Up in Baltimore country, you have to go to a liquor store for everything but it's not state run.

Montgomery county is one with state run stores

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April 9, 2009 2:35 PM

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@nrich239: Oh, really? I live in Montgomery and I actually didn't know it varied county to county. Now I feel even more jipped!

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April 9, 2009 9:17 PM

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@TinkishDelight: If you're nearby Laurel, go to Corridor Wine and Spirits off of 198 and 295, they're not state run, and you can get everything since it's in Anne Arundel county.

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Rufdawg

April 9, 2009 2:20 PM

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@johnva: Minibottles aren't mandatory. However, many places still chose to use them.

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JGKojak

April 9, 2009 2:24 PM

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Here in Kansas liquor (other than 3.2) is not sold in grocery stores- and I have never understood the issue either way--

I guess since I rarely drink I don't see the need, as going to a liquor store the few times I do isn't a big deal. I do have to say that its possible I'd drink more often if I could pick up some Mike's with the groceries.

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ElizabethD

April 9, 2009 2:30 PM

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Don't feel bad. Here in RI the liquor-story lobby (and it is powerful, no lie) has prevented any store other than (wait for it) licensed liquor stores from selling alcoholic beverages in any form, including beer.

In fact, it was only in the last couple of years that the legislature changed the blue law so that liquor stores could open on Sundays in RI. (and only because Massachusetts stores just miles away were raking it in)

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April 9, 2009 2:39 PM

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I can get Wine and beer and jack daniels at CVS here in Arizona. LMAO.

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FooSchnickens - Full of SCAR

April 9, 2009 2:46 PM

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It seems NY is gunning for CA's Kommiefornia title...

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ckaught78

April 9, 2009 2:46 PM

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I move to PA from CA last yeat and can not understand why the laws regarding alcohol are the way they are. I am sure there are studies that will show no difference in teen drinking and DUI arrests for states that sell alcohol at supermarkets versus state run stores/distributors.

I would imagine the state of PA could make even more money off wine and liquor with they allowed it to be sold outside of state run stores. By doing so they would retain all teh taxes plus would not have the overhead of a brick and morter business.

At least they are making some headway. A Wegmans in the Carlisle area has a cafe attached that was just granted a license to sell beer on the basis that they are a restaurant. They only needed to put up a wall seperating the cafe from the actual store. Customers will now be allowed to purchase up to 2 six packs of beer. They are eventually hoping to sell wine as well. Customers will still have to make two seperate transactions, but at least they can purchase it at the same place.

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Shaftoe

April 9, 2009 2:47 PM

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I live in Washington state where this is already the case. I never understood the rules back east.

but then I am always shocked to see Whiskey in grocery stores when I am in California

Bottom line IMHO is it is about power and monopoly

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April 9, 2009 2:54 PM

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I wish the poll had an option for 'Good grief, we have bigger problems than wine in NY'.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for wine being sold to supermarkets to adults over the age of 21, but why are people focusing on this at a time where our state economy is falling apart, our taxes are being raised higher because our idiot governor is funding pet projects like he's the Candyman, and our schools everywhere are failing?

I know this reference is probably overused, but man, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!

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johnva

April 9, 2009 3:21 PM

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@crunchberries: Well, wine sales in groceries will probably increase state tax revenue by increasing sales (since it will be more convenient to buy it). So that might have something to do with why they're doing this in a recession.

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April 9, 2009 3:41 PM

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@johnva: You make a solid point, but with the way things are going now, the extra revenue is more likely to be diverted into some other wasteful pet project yet again instead of being used to fix the things that are obviously broken.

It's like putting lipstick on a pig. A really ugly pig with back acne, warts, and a horrible case of halitosis.

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April 9, 2009 2:56 PM

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I just want to say. Free market. When business (even mine as I am self employed) bitches because *gasp* someone may do it cheaper and expect the government to stop it, that is called monopolies. \"Mom and Pop wine stores claimed they would not be able to compete with the volume discounts offered at the supermarket.\" Go sell something else and quite whining. (Yes whining from a wine store.)

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tc4b

April 9, 2009 3:05 PM

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I love my local liquor store, and I selfishly want him to stay in business so I can keep getting great service in an area I know little about (wine & liquor). I'd still shop there if they started selling wine at Wegmans. I'm not saying the liquor laws are sensible, though.

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April 9, 2009 3:19 PM

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It does suck since it means there is only one place in the city to buy two buck chuck.

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varro

April 9, 2009 3:23 PM

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Yes, and not state liquor stores. (Pennsylvania, I am looking at you. Having wineries near Erie ship to LCB warehouses near Pittsburgh, then back to stores in Erie, is a prime example of how state liquor monopolies work.)

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April 9, 2009 3:35 PM

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Living in Illinois, I never realized this was an issue in other states. As far as I can recall, we've always had liquor sections in our grocery stores.

The only ridiculous thing we have to put up with is that when the cashier is scanning your items, if she's under 21, she has to call someone older over, literally just to run the bottle of whatever over the scanner. Pretty stupid.

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Ben Miner

April 9, 2009 3:38 PM

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This whole thing is so stupid. I suppose, on some level, I can understand having to go to a separate store to buy hard liquor, but beer and wine? I used to live in VA where you could buy beer and wine at grocery stores. But here in PA you have to go to a \"distributor\" to buy beer (and only by the CASE, i.e 24 12-oz bottles) and a separate \"state store\" to buy wine or liquor. Thank goodness I live close enough to MD where you can get all 3 in one place.

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npage148

April 9, 2009 3:58 PM

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So, It's bad when Wal-mart and Best-Buy puts Main St out of business but it is ok when a grocery store wants to do the same? I'm a little confused, I thought consumerist hates the big box places. But only when it's not an inconvenience?

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April 10, 2009 1:02 AM

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consumers are generally better off when there is more competition, be it from small businesses or big ones. Laws that restrict competition are inherently anti-consumer. The more stores competing, the better prices and service.

I don't like Best Buy or Wal-Mart - which makes me glad that there are plenty of places, small and large, brick and mortar and online, that sell everything they sell that I can buy from instead .

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Spectre1125

April 9, 2009 4:52 PM

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@npage148: \"But only when it's not an inconvenience\" is exactly it. It is a shitty philosophy that has seeped its way into the very fabric of being not only an American, but a human being.

People act in their self interests, praise egoists, and hate true altruistic behavior. Save yourself the heart ache and try not to think about it too much.

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Ihaveasmartpuppy

April 9, 2009 4:22 PM

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Wine is an ingredient in so many recipes, there's no reason it shouldn't be sold in grocery stores. Once when visiting my family in Wisconsin I was buying ingredients for dinner and walked around a Cub Foods store over and over looking for the wine. I found beer, but no vino. I finally asked someone where it was (in the liquor store next door). Idiocy.

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BreadBoy

April 9, 2009 5:05 PM

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The New York laws remind me of when I lived in Norfolk Virginia or Salt Lake City. Bassackwards.

I live in Arizona. Beer, Wine and Liquor are available at Grocery Stores, Convienience Stores, Mom and Pop shops as well as Costco and other big box specialty retailers like Total Wine. The selection of Wine at the grocery stores is deplorable and generally overpriced. There is a locally owned liquor store just around the corner from my house that does a brisk business because of it selection.

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Spectre1125

April 9, 2009 5:06 PM

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Let's take a model that has been repeatedly proven and just say it doesn't work, then stop talking about it so eventually it'll be just another one of those little crappy political deals where someone owes someone a favor now!

GENIUS!!

If there's one thing about blue states I have to give it up for, it is the ability to sit there and cheer while they watch it get stuck into them by the people they elected. I hate to lump people together into such a loose demographic, but damn. Michigan, New York, California, what's up guys??? I understand the inherent corruptable nature of our political system, but you can at least pick somebody that will keep political nonsense in the political arena and out of your everyday lives.

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JohnOB1

April 9, 2009 5:26 PM

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All I know is will they be able to sell it in the Trader Joe's near my house? or do I have to go to 14th St. still?

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Anonymous

April 9, 2009 5:38 PM

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Wait, didn't they just open some Trader Joe's in New York? Are those not considered supermarkets? Because I'm not sure it is possible to conceive of a Trader Joe's without three-buck chuck (two-buck chuck for some geographic areas).

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April 9, 2009 5:46 PM

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I'm glad I don't live in a state with ridiculous liquor laws. Midwesterners know how to booze it up!

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synergy

April 9, 2009 6:22 PM

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I guess supporters of it need to move to Texas. Wine and beer are sold at the grocery store. I think they have been all my life. Odd for my Canadian husband is the ability to buy beer at any local convenience store. Ha!

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April 9, 2009 6:27 PM

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The small business owners are right, they wouldn't be able to compete with the volume discounts and the ease of access would cause their business to decrease.

Boohoo. This is called capitalism.

I live in California, where wine is sold in grocery stores, Whole Foods, and Trader Joe, and the world as we know it has yet to come to an end because of it. In fact, they're pretty strict about carding people in grocery stores, from my experience.

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April 10, 2009 1:03 AM

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The carding thing is true. I'm 28, and I can't remember the last time I've been carded in a bar or liquor store in my home slice of MD. But every time I've been out of state for work in a state that sells booze at grocery stores, I've been carded.

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MinervaAutolycus

April 9, 2009 6:39 PM

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I've lived in California and Nevada my whole life and didn't realize alcohol was so restricted in other places. In California you can buy anything in the supermarket/drug stores. The only restriction might be that the bottles have to be a certain minimum size and they can't sell the \"hip flask\" size hard liquor. Miniatures are available in liquor stores. (It's a cheap way to sample an odd spirit without spending a lot.) I bought some nice wine at my local Target the other day. In Nevada, booze is sold all day, all night. And both places have tons of independent liquor store, including many who specialize in wine.

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April 9, 2009 7:40 PM

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The store I work at sells O'Doul's. That's the only \"alcohol\" we sell. I heard management talking about how they couldn't get a liquor license because there is a liquor store right next door.

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April 9, 2009 8:23 PM

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Colorado has a similar law; coming from California where EVERY grocery store sells wine and most hard alcohol, this is pretty inconvenient.
Of course, SAMs has a a pretty clever workaround; they always have a liquor store built into the store, but the liquor store has it's own external entrance from SAMs and is always separately owned. Smart thinking.

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valthun

April 9, 2009 8:47 PM

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I just don't get this one. I live in California where beer wine and liquor are sold in the grocery store and at the liquor store, and at the gas station market. Within walking distance are three liquor stores to my place. All with a slightly different catalog. The grocer is not within walking distance. Guess where it gets purchased at in our household the most. Yes it is more convenient when sold at the grocer, when you just want to get everything and go.

I don't understand why its not this way nationally yet.

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turkeyspam

April 9, 2009 9:49 PM

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Yeah, kids will be lined up for a bottle of wine. How about the beer the store ALREADY sells? That could never be a problem, oh no. An idiot is in charge of this whole plan. Whatever. New York sucks anyways. Hopefully an earthquake will open the ground and swallow that dump someday.

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gman863

April 10, 2009 7:08 AM

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The states that restrict the sale of liquor, beer or wine do it for one (or more)of three reasons: Pressure from Holy Rollers, the ability to generate hidden tax revenue by overpricing booze at state-owned stores or the misguided theory that cutting down on the sale of booze curbs drunk driving.

When I lived in Alabama, the laws were a joke. Although beer and wine were available in most stores, hard liquor had to be purchased at a state ABC store - at a markup of 30-50% over the same spirits in FL or LA. At one point, Alabama Revenue Agents were staking out major liquor stores off I-10 in New Orleans (about 2 hours West of Mobile) looking for Alabama license plates! I don't know how successful they were, but supposedly it was a crime to buy liquor in another state and transport it to Alabama - even for personal consumption.

As for the underage and drunk driving arguments; sadly neither are prevented by Draconian liquor laws.

If teens want to get shit-faced, there's always an older friend who will buy the booze (or they can raid mommy and daddy's supply). Their odds of being carded at Wal-Mart are likely better (due to store survelliece and the \"CHCK ID\" warning that pops up whenever alcohol is scanned) than at a mom and pop store.

If you want the stats on drunk driving, look at the number of DUIs and accidents that occur as people drive home to a \"dry\" county after partying at a bar in a neighboring county or state where alcohol is served. I'd rather have a drunk on the road for half a mile to the nearest Kroger than 30 miles going from a bar in Mobile back to his Purtianical home across the line in Mississippi.

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battra92

April 10, 2009 12:37 PM

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In MA a few years ago this was up for a referendum vote and it was overwhelmingly voted down. Yep, even in Blue as blue (except for me) Massachusetts they voted to prohibit the sale of alcohol at grocery stores. You can't even buy beer at the grocery stores here.

Not that it's stopped the huge amount of drunks we have in this state (see Kennedy family)

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April 10, 2009 6:37 PM

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this whole thing is because the head of NY's Conservative Party (Mike Long) owns a liquor store and doesn't want to lose out. how community minded of him...

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April 10, 2009 7:10 PM

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Wait... you can't buy wine in a supermarket in NY?
That's one of the silliest things I've ever heard.

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