My bad.

Not that it's stopped the huge amount of drunks we have in this state (see Kennedy family)

The states that restrict the sale of liquor, beer or wine do it for one (or more)of three reasons: Pressure from Holy Rollers, the ability to generate hidden tax revenue by overpricing booze at state-owned stores or the misguided theory that cutting down on the sale of booze curbs drunk driving.

When I lived in Alabama, the laws were a joke. Although beer and wine were available in most stores, hard liquor had to be purchased at a state ABC store - at a markup of 30-50% over the same spirits in FL or LA. At one point, Alabama Revenue Agents were staking out major liquor stores off I-10 in New Orleans (about 2 hours West of Mobile) looking for Alabama license plates! I don't know how successful they were, but supposedly it was a crime to buy liquor in another state and transport it to Alabama - even for personal consumption.

As for the underage and drunk driving arguments; sadly neither are prevented by Draconian liquor laws.

If teens want to get shit-faced, there's always an older friend who will buy the booze (or they can raid mommy and daddy's supply). Their odds of being carded at Wal-Mart are likely better (due to store survelliece and the "CHCK ID" warning that pops up whenever alcohol is scanned) than at a mom and pop store.

If you want the stats on drunk driving, look at the number of DUIs and accidents that occur as people drive home to a "dry" county after partying at a bar in a neighboring county or state where alcohol is served. I'd rather have a drunk on the road for half a mile to the nearest Kroger than 30 miles going from a bar in Mobile back to his Purtianical home across the line in Mississippi.

I thought the purpose of those is to keep yourself under .08....

The carding thing is true. I'm 28, and I can't remember the last time I've been carded in a bar or liquor store in my home slice of MD. But every time I've been out of state for work in a state that sells booze at grocery stores, I've been carded.

consumers are generally better off when there is more competition, be it from small businesses or big ones. Laws that restrict competition are inherently anti-consumer. The more stores competing, the better prices and service.

I don't like Best Buy or Wal-Mart - which makes me glad that there are plenty of places, small and large, brick and mortar and online, that sell everything they sell that I can buy from instead .

I for one like the convenience of being able to do all my shopping in one place. I also like places like Trader Joe's, which have decent selection of affordable wines- my parents live in NJ near the only one in the state that sells wine, and I usually pick up a case when I visit them from 2-buck-chuckless MD

Protecting small businesses is not the government's job. If a small business does a better job of providing a service than a big one, I will go there - but guess what, if a small business doesn't have any competition thanks to stupid laws, they have a lot less incentive to provide good service.

Having lived only in Baltimore City and Baltimore County, I never realized there were parts of MD that were state run.

Of course, Baltimore City has it's own sets of odd laws... I remember driving around on Sunday nights when i was in college, trying to find one of the few liquor stores that was open on Sundays (most BC liquor licenses are 6 day, but there are a handful of 7 day).

I agree with a lot of things in this thread, but what I do not agree with is the attitude that small businesses should have a special right to exist just because they are small.

Your argument sounds sensible, but to follow it through to its end you would have to equally say that supermarkets should not sell fruits and vegetables (a mom & pop store should do that), they should not sell bread (surely a local baker will bake it), they should not sell cheese (you've always had a local fromagerie, right?), and so on. In other words, your argument implies that supermarkets should not exist at all, and methinks that if the government mandated all supermarkets to be closed, there would be an uproar.

That being said, I have a few observations:

1) When I was under 21, I almost never obtained alcohol from a store of any kind. It was always pilfered from my or my friends' parents, or purchased by an over-21 friend. In my experience, this bizarre separation of liquor, beer, and wine in NY is idiotic. (You can buy beer in supermarkets, even beer with a 7.2% alcohol content).

2) Now being 29, I find it very inconvenient that when I want a bottle of wine I have to buy it between the hours of 10-8 (M-Th), or 10-9 (F-Sa), or 12-5 (Su); when liquor stores in my area are open. I get off of work at 7 (if I don't have to stay late), so if I don't think of it on the way home then I can't buy wine. When I was working in the city, my train usually wouldn't get be back home until 8-8:30, so I couldn't have a glass of wine unless I planned ahead from the previous weekend.

There is a 24-hour supermarket about 7 mins. from my house, though.

I don't want to see an end to small businesses, but the government has regulated this to the point where I'm annoyed that these businesses are forced/allowed/encouraged to exist when they provide and inconvenience and a disservice to citizens like me. (This is, of course, the fault of the guys and gals in Albany, not the small business owners).

Anyway, I hate to w[h]ine further, so I'll end my rant by saying that I work for a small business that does online recruiting for one particular industry. Like what Monster.com does. We've been in business for 8 years because we provide more personalized and customized service. Would it be good for business if the government said that Monster.com could no longer sell resumes, so as to favor small businesses? Yes. Would I vote for that? No. Because it's asinine.

I don't understand why its not this way nationally yet.

@VideoOrItDidn'tHappen_GitEmSteveDave: "Then they apologized when Paterson said he "didn't see the humor" in the sketch, and I was like, the first time they were funny in a long while, and they will never do it again."

I agree......he didnt see the humor, cause he sees nothing.....he made a joke of himself.

Boohoo. This is called capitalism.

I live in California, where wine is sold in grocery stores, Whole Foods, and Trader Joe, and the world as we know it has yet to come to an end because of it. In fact, they're pretty strict about carding people in grocery stores, from my experience.

I just don't like the idea of small business being stamped out one by one by mass retailers.

@pax:
I moved to AZ from PA and it's still weird for me to see liquor/beer in the supermarket.

It's weird, but I still buy it.

Also - I miss Wegmans.

@Eyebrows McGee (on Twitter: LPetelle): Before I had a VA license I bought beer at a safeway. The cashier had it sent upstairs for verification. Many of the small ethnic restaurants near where I grew up were pretty lax on checking id for booze, so thats the underage drinking route I took

@Powerlurker: I love BYOB restaurants. When we were in Montreal we saved so much money since most places we went to were near convienience stores that sold decent wine

Supermarkets are a terrible place to try to buy your underaged liquor. They're all brightly-lit and concerned about ID and stuff.

Let's take a model that has been repeatedly proven and just say it doesn't work, then stop talking about it so eventually it'll be just another one of those little crappy political deals where someone owes someone a favor now!

GENIUS!!

If there's one thing about blue states I have to give it up for, it is the ability to sit there and cheer while they watch it get stuck into them by the people they elected. I hate to lump people together into such a loose demographic, but damn. Michigan, New York, California, what's up guys??? I understand the inherent corruptable nature of our political system, but you can at least pick somebody that will keep political nonsense in the political arena and out of your everyday lives.

The New York laws remind me of when I lived in Norfolk Virginia or Salt Lake City. Bassackwards.

I live in Arizona. Beer, Wine and Liquor are available at Grocery Stores, Convienience Stores, Mom and Pop shops as well as Costco and other big box specialty retailers like Total Wine. The selection of Wine at the grocery stores is deplorable and generally overpriced. There is a locally owned liquor store just around the corner from my house that does a brisk business because of it selection.

The specialty liquor and/or wine stores are typically very competitive on non-sale price and they have a far wider selection. When I'm going to buy WINE, I go to the wine specialty store. When I'm grabbing a bottle to cook with or because I want a basic table wine, the convenience of the supermarket is nice -- I wouldn't make a special trip to the wine store for that.

Liquor licenses are very heavily restricted in New Jersey, with the numbers per town based on their populations back in 1947 or so. A municipality is only allowed to have a certain number of on-premises liquor licenses and a certain number of package store licenses based on its population. If a new liquor license is ever to be issued (because of population increases or such) it must be by auction.

Most grocery stores don't sell beer or wine because they simply can't get the license, and even if they could, it may cost them over $1,000,000 depending on where they're located. If your local grocery store is selling wine, it probably has one of the rare beer and wine only licenses that the state no longer issues. You can check out all of the laws online and it's pretty absurd.

The high cost and low availability of liquor licenses is also why there are so many BYOB restaurants in the state. It's also why when Kings was sold to Marks and Spencer back in the 80's, the original owners retained the wine and liquor stores.

@npage148: "But only when it's not an inconvenience" is exactly it. It is a shitty philosophy that has seeped its way into the very fabric of being not only an American, but a human being.

People act in their self interests, praise egoists, and hate true altruistic behavior. Save yourself the heart ache and try not to think about it too much.

@johnva: Oof. That was a little racist, don't you think, Colonel Sanders? I'm getting the ACLU, and we are going to suuue you! Now let us never speak of this particular topic again. If it comes up I will put my hands over my eyes and scream "LALALALA YOU'RE AN IDIOT LALALALA" over and over again until I win.

A good day, to youse.

Why yes, yes I do. Too snooty to mix with the masses?

@calquist:

Plus, they have the little handle so you can stick your pinkey through it and look sophisticated when you sip from the jug!

It's like putting lipstick on a pig. A really ugly pig with back acne, warts, and a horrible case of halitosis.

I was going to mention the drive through daquiri/frozen drinks huts but TinkishDelight beat me to it. I love those places. I've seen a place up near Leesville or DeRidder where you can drive through and they have someone waiting on you. You tell them what you want and they go get it for you (cigs, bottles of liquor, wine, cases of beer, etc...). Also saw a place or two like that in either Alabama or Georgia.

I also laughed when Scott on American Idol(the blind guy Seacrest tried to high five) sang "The Search Is Over", which includes the line "Now I look into your eyes,I can see forever, the search is over".

The only ridiculous thing we have to put up with is that when the cashier is scanning your items, if she's under 21, she has to call someone older over, literally just to run the bottle of whatever over the scanner. Pretty stupid.

@VideoOrItDidn'tHappen_GitEmSteveDave: If you can't make a blind joke without backing down....don;t make the joke. I laughed....Seems like Patterson can't see shit.....he's killing the state.

@mergatroy6: Fucke em if they can't compete. Survival of the fittest. If you can't do business with the big boys.....then get out of the business.

@cjones27: NOT TRUE. Texas does have strict alcohol laws, but in some communities,(mine included) I can now go to Target, Kroger, Walmart and other grocery stores and buy wine and beer. Hard liquor will always be in a seperate store, miles away. Some cities just refuse to be wet cities for fear that it leads to moral decay. Ass backward Texas idiots.

Anything 21% alcohol and stronger can only be sold at special state agency stores. Some of these agencies are located within grocery stores, but they're isolated and separate from the grocery store's beer/wine section.

I just want to say. Free market. When business (even mine as I am self employed) bitches because *gasp* someone may do it cheaper and expect the government to stop it, that is called monopolies. "Mom and Pop wine stores claimed they would not be able to compete with the volume discounts offered at the supermarket." Go sell something else and quite whining. (Yes whining from a wine store.)

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for wine being sold to supermarkets to adults over the age of 21, but why are people focusing on this at a time where our state economy is falling apart, our taxes are being raised higher because our idiot governor is funding pet projects like he's the Candyman, and our schools everywhere are failing?

I know this reference is probably overused, but man, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!

<Disclosure> I helped raise two Seeing Eye puppies and support many blind charities </Disclosure>

Just because 35 other states are doing it, does it make it the correct way to conduct business? I seriously do not understand the mentality allowing corporate entities, be they supermarkets, discount stores or whatever other big box store you'd want to name, corner in on EVERY aspect of retail, just for the sake of saving consumers a few pennies money or creating revenue for the state.

I live in Washington state where this is already the case. I never understood the rules back east.

but then I am always shocked to see Whiskey in grocery stores when I am in California

Bottom line IMHO is it is about power and monopoly

I move to PA from CA last yeat and can not understand why the laws regarding alcohol are the way they are. I am sure there are studies that will show no difference in teen drinking and DUI arrests for states that sell alcohol at supermarkets versus state run stores/distributors.

I would imagine the state of PA could make even more money off wine and liquor with they allowed it to be sold outside of state run stores. By doing so they would retain all teh taxes plus would not have the overhead of a brick and morter business.

At least they are making some headway. A Wegmans in the Carlisle area has a cafe attached that was just granted a license to sell beer on the basis that they are a restaurant. They only needed to put up a wall seperating the cafe from the actual store. Customers will now be allowed to purchase up to 2 six packs of beer. They are eventually hoping to sell wine as well. Customers will still have to make two seperate transactions, but at least they can purchase it at the same place.

@winstonthorne:
Do we really want to be like them ? That is a very wise remark and not small minded or bigoted at all

I can get Wine and beer and jack daniels at CVS here in Arizona. LMAO.

I hear you on Jungle Jims. I also use the Party Source. They have nearly the same selections on beer and more on spirits, but not nearly as good for wine.

@nrich239: Oh, really? I live in Montgomery and I actually didn't know it varied county to county. Now I feel even more jipped!

Sorry. Could. Not. Help. My. Self.

@TinkishDelight: There's actually a place in Lubbock that does that too. Apparently by leaving the top part of the straw wrapper on, it's a "closed container" and thus legal to drive with. Gotta love the loopholes.

I have a good friend that owns a wine shop. He actually consistently sells his wine at a LOWER price than the local grocery stores. He even sells below Sam's Club a lot of the time. Business is booming for him and he is within 1 mile of 3 other grocery stores.

@TinkishDelight:

Yeah or being on a bicycle, roller blades, your daughter's trike, or by doing the right thing and sleeping it off in your car.

In fact, it was only in the last couple of years that the legislature changed the blue law so that liquor stores could open on Sundays in RI. (and only because Massachusetts stores just miles away were raking it in)

@PunditGuy: I remember watching something on the news (or it may have been The Daily Show circa Craig Kilbourne) about how Louisiana had frozen, alcoholic Pina Coladas and such available at some drive-thru. The patrons were angry because the state was considering shutting it down.

Montgomery county is one with state run stores

Here in Kansas liquor (other than 3.2) is not sold in grocery stores- and I have never understood the issue either way--

I guess since I rarely drink I don't see the need, as going to a liquor store the few times I do isn't a big deal. I do have to say that its possible I'd drink more often if I could pick up some Mike's with the groceries.

I stopped at a gas station, and inside the station was a very large tub filled with ice. In the ice was a wide variety of individual beer cans. Apparently, the idea is to pick up a single cold can after you pay for your gas.

I was happy to get out of Louisiana.

@wgrune: Or WALKING home which is just bullshit.

@johnva: Minibottles aren't mandatory. However, many places still chose to use them.

@snowburnt: That always blew my mine. Especially since it's COLD beer at a gas station. It's amazing that hasn't been an issue.

In MD it's all state run and over the top expensive. I'm only 23 and I've never been carded in my life. 35 and under my foot. The argument of having state-run liquor stores to decrease underage drinking is just not valid.

@ConroyCotta: Kansas. 3.2 beer only in grocery stores.

@SJActress: Wrong. Dead wrong. Texas has some strict alcohol laws.

Liquor has to be sold in a separate store.

@mergatroy6:

Agreed with the "but the world didn't end for the other states" arguments above. But what I really wanted to point out is that I don't think "gentrify" means what you think it means. One of the arguments against the change is that it will de-gentrify. I disagree, but I don't think anyone else is worried about gentrification here.

Though, your example is actually only 3 stops since the liquor stores sell both hard liquor and wine. But if for some reason you needed a case and a 6-pack, you're back up to 4.

I believe any law should only be kept if you can truly say "if this law had never been passed, would we pass it now?". If it can stand on it's own merits, fine, otherwise the fact that the law is the status quo should not enter into it.

Besides, I think the liquor/wine shops will survive.

We have what is called a free market. If small businesses can't compete, then they go out of business. It isn't the government's job to insure their survival by allowing artificially high prices.

@Etoiles: it's the same in delaware--you can only buy liquor in liquor stores, period.

So grocery stores will probably NOT going to do all that much redecorating so they can offer 5000 varieties of Chilean merlot. More likely, they'll figure out what most people drink and offer that. All you wine snobs will still have to go to the specialty wine store for your Romulan ale.

As for the weak-ass arguments offered by MADD and the other "Prohibition didn't work, so we'll make buying booze a big pain in the ass" groups, if any of these arguments about teen drinking held any water whatsoever, why not suggest that grocery stores not be allowed to sell beer, either. Give that trade to Mom and Pop in their grubby little liquor store across the street. Surely restricting sales of 30-packs of Natty Light to a small number of stores that specialize in carding people would do more to keep underage drunk drivers off the road than keeping wine out of grocery stores. But I never hear that argument, so I'll just assume they're all a part of the militant supporters of the status quo, just like the liquor store lobby.

Stores that are just coasting on their built-in state-provided monopoly deserve to lose out to the groceries.

As a resident of MD, I do look across the Potomac with envy at the availability of beer and wine in VA grocery stores, as well as the selection available across the state. With Montgomery County in full control (and ownership) of liquor imports into the area, I don't see this changing any time soon.

My drug dealer never asked me for ID, so screw liquor.

Texas, too.

@socialSTD: or Boones

@mergatroy6: Florida has liquor stores and wine in supermarkets. We even has specialty wine only stores. For people who like wine other than Franzia and Sutter Home.

It is really nice to be able to pick up something while at the grocery store rather than having to make a trip elsewhere. I just do not understand some of the heavy handed liquor laws. PA has to have the worst.

Here in NJ, there's some crazy law where some grocery stores can sell wine but not others. I'm not sure of the details, but none of the stores near my house sell wine, so I have to make two stops each week. Very annoying.

From time to time, I'll go to the Wegman's that *does* sell wine, and I can't think of any good reason why NJ couldn't allow every Wegman's to operate just like that. Honestly, what reason could there be? Don't even try to tell me that underage kids are somehow purchasing wine from Wegman's.

@ConroyCotta: Same thing in Florida. Florida has problems, but selling wine in supermarkets didn't cause them.

Back when I was a teen, the wines that made their way to a party on a Friday night were usually of the boxed variety.

@winstonthorne: "Seriously?"

Please tell me you're not really serious. Try "Come ON :)" or "Ya Know?"

Pennsylvania is THE WORST. Grocery stores sell nothing alcoholic. Cases of beer can be bought only at case stores. State-run liquor stores carry wine and liquor. And if you want a six-pack of beer, you have to go to A BAR. So, yes, if you're planning a party where you need orange juice, wine, vodka, and a case of Bud, you're talking four different stops.

On my one and only visit to Arizona, I stopped in at a Walgreen's with a full-service liquor store attached to it that was open on a Sunday. THAT is how civilized people live.

@ConroyCotta: Same in South Carolina. Of course, SC still has some wacky blue laws and bars still serve liquor in minibottles, but it's SO nice to be able to get champagne at Target!

@HIV 2 Elway Resurrected:

Meh, I think they are worse. Thanks to MADD we all have to be nervous about driving home after having one beer.

@cabjf: Gosh, I just hate Paterson and NY in general anymore. (Check out Patersons approval rating- I'm actually wishing for the whoring Governor to return!)

Same with GESD's comment, they raised the taxes so exorbitantly high on cigarettes that they are actually losing out on revenue when people decide to quit.

@SanDiegoDude:

Ha, you have got to love "wine" that come in pina colada flavor.

We even have one Meijer store in the GR area that has over 1,000 sq of floor space for just wine.

Here in Connecticut, they can't sell wine in the grocery stores, but they can sell beer. In my experience, its significantly more expensive there, I think you actually are paying for the convenience. A 12-pack of Sam is $17 at Stop & Shop, $12 at the mom & pop shop thats literally one door down.

Unrelated, but it seems that alcohol awareness groups and the like will just automatically oppose any legislation that actually allows people to buy alcohol. If the grocery stores already sell beer, then the access is already there. Teenagers are not exactly major wine consumers.

@mergatroy6: My state sells wine, beer, and booze in super markets and shockingly liquor stores are still open. No grocery store is ever going to have the selection that a liquor store has.

Besides, my local liqueur store gives a $20 credit for every $200 I spend =)

@johnva: That makes sense, when I buy wine at the grocery store it tends to be the variety that follows the color-animal part formula (yellow tail, black swan) but if I'm getting a gift or celebrating I go to the wine shop in my neighborhood

Thirty five other states already sell wine in supermarkets. There was a push to do this here in NY in hopes that it would expand sales and increase tax receipts from wine sales. The supermarkets would only stock top selling varieties, leaving the independent liquor stores to sell everything as before. The liquor store owners lobbied hard and managed to kill the bill.

I remember buying wine AND SPIRITS at the grocery stores in CA and HI, and it was damn convienent too.

MADD not quite as bad at PETA, but close.

@winstonthorne: I find living in the (quasi) South rather depressing and I enjoy the easy availabilty of wine and beer

That right there is the ultimate 2 buck chuck and yes, it was consumed in vast quantities by many teenagers during my growing up years...

Now I live in a country in Europe where alcohol isn't regarded as such a BFD and am all the happier for it.

Poor New York!

I'm not sure the constitution would allow that. Equal protection clause.

@Etoiles: ABC is state owned and I must say every one I have ever been in is extremely depressing.I grew up in Colorado where 3.2 beer could be bought at the grocery store and beer/wine/liquor stores were closed on Sunday, but they recently reversed that

Same in California. Of course here in CA, other than BevMo, liquor stores tend to be rather skeezy places in bad neighborhood. Not places I would generally choose to go.

Then I moved to New York City, and every damn CVS and Duane Reade and corner bodega sells beer. Until I saw this article, I don't think I even noticed consciously that they didn't sell wine.

(Here in the VA 'burbs of DC, where I now live, every single store that sells food sells beer and wine both. And liquor stores seem to be state-owned.)

and i agree, minnesota has some really complicated liquor laws.

@ConroyCotta: Same here in Ohio. In fact, Jungle Jim's probably has the largest supply and variety of wine available in the state...

I buy more wine now that I live in a state that sells it in the grocery store, but i do find that having it in some of the smaller stores does sometimes limit the grocery selection.

There is a small wine shop in my town and I love it. The have bottles floor to ceiling and the staff is extremely knowledgeable. I know nothing about wine but they always help me select a great bottle.

Small businesses are what give "main street" part of its charm. Laws like this one only serve to gentrify neighborhoods and make it harder for small businesses to survive. I will happily go to an extra store if it means superior service and a wider selection.

The underage drinking is bogus, what 17 year old drinks wine to get drunk?