var json_comments = new Array("
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Stephen Williams
April 19, 2009 7:22 PM
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I live in the Seattle area, and you my friend just gave me a nice shock. Good article.

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liveallnight
April 19, 2009 7:23 PM
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I never thought getting cash at the supermarket would be a better idea.

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6 replies
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ElizabethD
April 20, 2009 1:44 PM
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@liveallnight:

Ha. My friends mock me for never having owned or used an ATM card. Yes, I get my cash at the supermarket when I buy groceries! -- or I write a check AT the bank and have them cash it. So old-school. So much safer, it seems, than trusting an ATM these days.

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Shadowman615
April 20, 2009 3:49 PM
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@ElizabethD: Yes, fraud and theft never happens with cash or checks.

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ElizabethD
April 20, 2009 1:44 PM
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@ElizabethD:
Oh, to clarify -- I don't use a debit card at the supermarket; I write an old-fashioned check for more than the amount of purchase, and get cash back.

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yasth
April 20, 2009 4:24 PM
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@ElizabethD:
So you think that running around with easily negotiable instruments (that mind you have all you need to do direct debit echecks right on the check) instead of a fraud controlled double pass protected system is honestly better?

@Nighthawke:
Like they couldn't come up with a word order in 15 minutes in word. If they are at all clever they'll even have a prepaid phone to answer the phone (either with a confederate or letting it go to voicemail)

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asplodzor
April 20, 2009 3:40 PM
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@ElizabethD: We HATE being in line behind you.

/Sorry, it's true.

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Syrenia
April 19, 2009 8:10 PM
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@liveallnight: Not necessarily. One of the grocery stores that I shop at had this happen with the keypads in the checkout lines last year. I can't find the follow-up story, but if I recall correctly, people came in claiming to be with the POS vendor and swapped out the reader for one that was set up for skimming.

[cyberinsecure.com]

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Nighthawke
April 20, 2009 2:04 PM
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@Syrenia:

Best fix for that; \"Can I see your work order?\"

They'll be running for the door after that.

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katstermonster
April 19, 2009 9:13 PM
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@Syrenia: That's a terrifying thought. Still, I think those probably have a much lower fraud rate than standalone ATM's, so I'll probably stick with them for the meantime. I always go to the same checkout line (express self-checkout FTW!!!) at the same supermarket, so I'll know if something looks hinky.

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LanLOLa
April 19, 2009 7:23 PM
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This makes me want to go all around town and search every ATM I find for skimmers.

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8 replies
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Skunky
April 20, 2009 11:26 PM
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@Tubasaurus: Screw the skimmers, I want some free micro cameras!

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Neil Patel
April 20, 2009 2:34 PM
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@Tubasaurus: Will it seem suspicious of me if the next time I am at an ATM I search the thing for a skimmer before making a transaction? I don't want to get in trouble if someone else see whats looks like me \"tampering\" with the ATM and I'm just checking if the reader is loose or fake, you know?

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calquist
April 20, 2009 2:05 PM
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@Tubasaurus: Yep. When I went to one of Friday I made a point of pulling on all sorts of slots to see if anything was loose.

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Justin Deuel
April 20, 2009 12:09 AM
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@Tubasaurus:

Me too, but why should we have to do this? Why aren't there laws in place that require frequent checks by maintainers of ATMs?

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LanLOLa
April 20, 2009 4:24 AM
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@Justin Deuel: The banks should at least be required to post if their ATMs are monitored or not.

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calquist
April 20, 2009 2:06 PM
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@Tubasaurus: They can post, but who knows if it is true or not. All restaurants have the handwashing sign for employees, but does that work?

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Chris Walters
April 19, 2009 7:24 PM
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@Tubasaurus: We love getting Consumerist mentioned in the mainstream media, but now I have this fear that our next mention will be because we've incited people to attack ATMS all over the country with flat-head screwdrivers.

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Dancin' Hooooomeeeeeer!
April 19, 2009 7:40 PM
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@Chris Walters: What if you just gave the protruding part of the card reader a good hard tug before sticking your card in there? I can't imagine that these things are screwed in place.

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Cat_In_A_Hat
April 20, 2009 12:47 AM
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@Dancin' Hooooomeeeeeer!: I actually did this today at the ATM. Ever since watching the UK show the Real Hustle and seeing how they are attached to machines, I've been paranoid about putting my cards in anything slots with readers. I think one nice tug should cause one to fall off if one was attached. It may look funny, but it makes me feel better.

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JohnAllison
April 20, 2009 9:52 PM
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@Cat_In_A_Hat:

I also did the exact same thing today. It was at a secured Wells Fargo ATM in the foyer before the branch. I grabbed and pulled everything just to see if there were loose ends here and there. Nothing.

I am however more wary than before.

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LanLOLa
April 19, 2009 7:44 PM
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@Dancin' Hooooomeeeeeer!: In most of the pictures of different skimmers posted here, they appeared to have been taped on. I would imagine an unguarded machine housing hundreds of dollars at any given time should not have any parts that are just taped on.

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fantomesq
April 19, 2009 7:37 PM
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@Chris Walters: LOL Google brings up Consumerist links on almost every \"Credit Card Skimmer\" result. :)

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Dancin' Hooooomeeeeeer!
April 19, 2009 7:23 PM
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I'm not sure if it helps or not, but I've taken to pretending to hit several of the buttons while I actually key in my code. I suppose the other option is the cover your hand over the keypad while you type.

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9 replies
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y2julio
April 20, 2009 5:03 AM
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@Dancin' Hooooomeeeeeer!: I've been doing this for a while now. I cover the keypad with my hands while I put in my pin.

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DrGirlfriend
April 19, 2009 10:59 PM
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@Dancin' Hooooomeeeeeer!: A bank near me attached a sign to their ATM that suggests doing this. It says something like, \"cover the keypad with your hand while you punch in your PIN\". No, I don't think they knowingly have a skimmer on there, I think they are just trying to be proactive in case one does get attached.

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Kali Mama
April 19, 2009 8:23 PM
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@Dancin' Hooooomeeeeeer!: It doesn't help when they employ the newest method where they just overlay a thicker keypad on the PIN keypad. I've seen pictures of these found on Dutch machines, and they have sensors relaying the numbers pressed to the skimming device.

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usa_gatekeeper
April 20, 2009 2:15 PM
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@Kali Mama: Granted, but at least it cuts down the odds of having data skimmed as a result of visually-dependent methods.

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Dancin' Hooooomeeeeeer!
April 19, 2009 9:21 PM
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@Kali Mama: dammit! Okay, how bout this: you have a separate account just for ATM use. Before using the ATM you call your bank and transfer just enough money into the ATM account. Then you go withdraw that amount.
It's crazy buy it'd work!

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godai
April 20, 2009 1:07 PM
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@Dancin' Hooooomeeeeeer!: Then your money will just get stolen via another method.


Overdraft fees.

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Hands
April 20, 2009 12:00 PM
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@Dancin' Hooooomeeeeeer!: I do something even crazier. I plan ahead and get whatever cash I need from inside the bank. I haven't used at ATM in 20 years.

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bibliophibian
April 20, 2009 2:06 AM
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@Dancin' Hooooomeeeeeer!: I've been doing this for about four years. Not because of ATM skimmer paranoia, but because I suck at remembering to record my transactions and kept messing up my checking account. Works like a charm.

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PersonalBest
April 19, 2009 9:26 PM
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@Dancin' Hooooomeeeeeer!: I'm thinking we should start going up to the teller and withdrawing bills in stacks, like in the old-timey days

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ideagirl
April 20, 2009 6:43 AM
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@PersonalBest: that's how we did it back when I used to drive the covered wagon to school

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Benguin
April 20, 2009 12:17 AM
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@PersonalBest: That is until they start replacing the tellers with cyborgs who have skimmers on their fingers.

The only sensible solution is to liquidate all your assets and live in the woods.

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PersonalBest
April 19, 2009 8:12 PM
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@Dancin' Hooooomeeeeeer!: Yes! I mentioned this below, but I've had people make fun of me for being \"overly paranoid\" by covering my hand while typing in my PIN. It takes minimal effort and can save you pantsloads of trouble.

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say what?!
April 19, 2009 7:41 PM
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@Dancin' Hooooomeeeeeer!: I do this already. For some reason my mother taught me to do it.

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Papa Midnight
April 19, 2009 7:34 PM
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I suppose the other option is the cover your hand over the keypad while you type.

@Dancin' Hooooomeeeeeer!: Yup.
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lpranal
April 19, 2009 7:32 PM
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@Dancin' Hooooomeeeeeer!: seems like it would work, the thieves would probably just pass you over in favor of less cautious folk, rather than waste time trying to analyze what you're doing in depth.

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Crystal Wojcinski
April 19, 2009 7:25 PM
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I'm sorry to say, I must have a vision issue. I've looked at all the skimmers and short of looking for fake brochure boxes and pinholes, I'm having a serious issue telling a fake debit card entry slot from a real one. It sucks, it really does. All I can say is, I may stop using the atm and just go to the bank for withdrawals from now on. It will
A. Keep me from taking out cash without giving it a good long think
B. Keep me from the spiral of damnitdamnitdamnitno that comes with knowing your account as been compromised.


Add another to the list of things to be distrustful of.

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6 replies
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huadpe
April 19, 2009 8:00 PM
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@Crystal Wojcinski: These things can't be permanently installed because the removal process would get you caught by the real security cameras. Best thing to do is to jiggle any protrusions and if everything is rock-solid, you're probably fine.

This is like the feeling money to check for counterfeits. It's easy to make something that looks right, but getting that feel of permanence and stability is tough for fraudsters.

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lordargent
April 19, 2009 8:22 PM
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@huadpe:

None of my bank ATMs have any protrusions. The card slots are flush with the machine.

So if something is sticking out, that's an immediate red flag.

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Chris Walters
April 19, 2009 7:32 PM
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@Crystal Wojcinski: Reading Timeus' description of the dip reader being placed over a mechanized reader is a great example of why going to the same ATM all the time is helpful--you don't need to be an expert in skimmers then, you just need to be able to notice that something is different.

I think one thing ATM designers could do is make the slot areas one piece with the front of the machine, so that *any* add on is immediately suspect. They should also probably post photos or diagrams at each location of what the ATM should look like.

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Shadowman615
April 20, 2009 3:53 PM
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@Chris Walters: It seems that this one and many of the pictures we saw before are the \"easier to detect\" kind, ie the scammer made the mistake of attaching the wrong kind of skimmer to this machine. Or others had half-assed installations.

Of course it's good to know this and I appreciate being better prepared to keep an eye out for this sort of thing. What I'm worried about, however, are the well-hidden ones. Well installed, hard-to-spot attachments that match correctly. There's not much we can do about those.

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jamar0303
April 20, 2009 10:39 AM
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@Syrenia: Bank of East Asia does that. They have a little picture showing what the ATM card reader looks like and its security features (it sticks out, so in order to make sure it's real there are some things to look for in the \"bulge\" that would be near-impossible to replicate for someone making a skimmer).

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Syrenia
April 19, 2009 8:13 PM
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@Chris Walters:

They should also probably post photos or diagrams at each location of what the ATM should look like.

I was thinking the same thing, but I suspect that the crimilans would just replace the photos too. The welcome screen should have an image of the slot that displays until you insert your card.

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Crystal Wojcinski
April 19, 2009 7:29 PM
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@Chris Walters
I'm by no means advocating vandalism, but a few sadly battered ATM's would be a catalyst to convince banks to come up with security measures. I am happy to hear that red flags go off when one of these is found but are they doing anything to fix the issue on a permanent basis such as make their ATM's more secure. At this point, I'd think that would be a selling point for a bank.
\"Our ATM's are secure!\"

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5 replies
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magus_melchior
August 3, 2010 1:48 PM
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In Japan, some banks put ATMs behind an automated door. During regular hours, it's monitored by a security guard. At night and on weekends, the door is locked, so you have to swipe your ATM card to get in (the Citibank in Otemachi ward was like this).

Of course, try suggesting this to the pinchpennies this side of the Pacific.

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Justin Harper
April 20, 2009 3:13 PM
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@Crystal Wojcinski: That's assinine. Yeah, the reasons the ATMs aren't secure is because the banks just aren't trying hard enough!


How exactly would you suggest securing an ATM to protect against this 100%? Hmmm? Exactly.

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Skunky
April 20, 2009 11:29 PM
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@Justin Harper: A few people have already thrown out suggestions and examples in the thread above.

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Traveshamockery
April 19, 2009 8:49 PM
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@Crystal Wojcinski: Another jewel of a facebook comment...destroy the bank's private property because of criminal activity unrelated to the bank?

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anduin
April 20, 2009 1:15 AM
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@Coach Cal Is My Dream Weaver:

banks should just check their machines at least once or twice a day to make sure, I don't see how that wouldn't elimnate like 90% of these...

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Papa Midnight
April 19, 2009 7:35 PM
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Now I actually know what one looks like and what too look for.

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1 replies
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gStein_*|bringing starpipe back|*
April 20, 2009 6:08 AM
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@Papa Midnight: the ATM i normally go to has a series of flashing green LEDs around the card slot...
anything else would throw me off

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FuryOfFirestorm
April 19, 2009 7:36 PM
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Just to fuck with the scammer, i'd cover the pinhole with gum. If I really wanted to piss him/her off, I'd post a \"Out of Order\" sign!

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3 replies
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Skunky
April 20, 2009 11:30 PM
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@FuryOfFirestorm: I'd be taking the cameras. Those look like fun.

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dohtem
April 20, 2009 4:40 AM
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@FuryOfFirestorm: Be careful *you* do not get accused of vandalism or some such crime.

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semajarab
April 19, 2009 8:21 PM
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@FuryOfFirestorm: I would just spend a few evening hanging around waiting for them and find out who the criminal is. Vigilante justice seems to be the only way they would be punished if cops are just passing the buck to the banks, or destroying evidence.

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Crystal Wojcinski
April 19, 2009 7:40 PM
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Which brings me to another issue. Alright the camera equipment and card reading technology has valid legal uses and is readily available for sale. However, much like Sudafed it also has a large appeal for illegal use. Perhaps along with Chris's idea for making pictures of a correct ATM (which sadly can be easily covered with a fraudulent one) and making the front all one piece, we should be keeping tabs on who is buying this equipment.

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10 replies
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SonalStevenson
July 17, 2009 12:01 AM
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@Crystal Wojcinski: Great idea! Maybe we can keep tabs on people who buy kitchen knives that could be used as murder weapons! >Th only reason sudafed is treated like that is because of our \"War on Drugs.\"

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Anonymous
May 12, 2009 12:37 PM
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@Crystal Wojcinski: Although I am vehemently against this illegal activity and do not personally have a reason to purchase any of this equipment, your comment is unfortunate. As much as the current administration and those that voted for them would like it, this country was not founded on such socialist or communistic ideals. We have many layers of law enforcement and that is there job. Our government is already stripping away our freedom and liberty, hell, they are telling us what kind of light bulbs to use! What is next, federally required cameras in our bedrooms? Be careful what you ask for, think before you speak. Everytime you ask for more regulation or more oversight they take more of our freedom.

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Talmonis
October 20, 2011 11:46 AM
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You have no idea what communism or socialism is. B.O. is just as much as a dirty corporatist as a lot of old-school republicans. That they're moving in a mad sprint to the far right does not make anyone left near the middle of the corrupt cesspool that is Washington a communist or socialist.

Trust me, if B.O. wanted communism, there would already be the blood of CEO's in the streets.

(Also, please note that the only ones who are interested in what goes on in one's bedroom is the far right.)

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Anonymous
May 12, 2009 5:56 AM
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@Crystal Wojcinski: Most ATMs have graphic video displays. One thing a bank could do is to display a picture of typical skimmers and pinhole cameras as installed on the ATM on the display along with a warning not to use the ATM if such devices are present, and to immediately report the location of the ATM tampered with to the bank that operates it.

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gStein_*|bringing starpipe back|*
April 20, 2009 6:10 AM
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@Crystal Wojcinski: if the \"what should an ATM look like\" notice is part of the ATM's software (ie, it shows up on the screen) it would be MUCH more difficult to mimic

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the_wiggle
April 20, 2009 1:42 AM
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@Crystal Wojcinski: not!

tracking who buys what hasn't done squat to reduce the Meth problem. all it's done is make getting the correct drug an invasive p.i.t.a. for people with allergies, colds or the flu.

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Tiny Bug
April 20, 2009 2:45 PM
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@the_wiggle:

tracking who buys what hasn't done squat to reduce the Meth problem.

Actually, you're wrong. Regulation of ephedrine and pseudoephedrine products has had an enormous impact on the meth problem in this country.

California, Arizona and Nevada saw 50-70 percent reductions with ephedrine regulation, and additional 40-60 percent reductions with regulation of pseudoephedrine. [www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

In Oregon (where I believe it was made prescription only) the number of \"Meth Lab incidents\" dropped significantly with each additional level of regulation - from an average of 40 incidents per month in 2003 to an average of about two incidents per month now. That's a 95% (!!) reduction. [www.oregondec.org]

Much like the restrictions placed on Methaqualone back in the 80s, Regulation of ephedrine and pseudoephedrine is extremely successful with regard to reducing the production of illegal drugs.

The regulation that has had little impact (except to annoy consumers) is that of OTC medicines where ephedrine is not the sole active medicinal ingredient, such as combination cold medicines.

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ChicagoKev
April 19, 2009 8:15 PM
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@Crystal Wojcinski:
The obvious answer is to do what the ATM operators do in Europe --

Have the ATM monitor display a picture of what the card reader should look like, before prompting you to insert your card.

The mfgr knows what their card slot should look like, and by making this the first screen shown on the monitor, you don't use a poster that could just be vandalized/replaced.

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Darkest Daze
April 19, 2009 10:43 PM
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@Joeb5: Then maybe it's time to upgrade them to something more secure....something that display a rudimentary picture of it's self.

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katstermonster
April 19, 2009 9:09 PM
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@Trai_Dep: They better add a little dancing man made of /'s and \\'s so I can enjoy my visit to the ATM more.

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huadpe
April 19, 2009 8:03 PM
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@Crystal Wojcinski: Way, way, way too many cameras and card readers already out there. Every retail outlet has a bunch of card readers in the store, and means to order a bunch more. Tiny cameras are in every new cell phone.

Besides, the skimmer in the picture there looks like it was stolen from a dipper ATM/gas pump. People stealing card info probably have no problem stealing equipment for their skimmer.

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PersonalBest
April 19, 2009 8:09 PM
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Well, this certainly justifies my telling people to shove it when they make fun of me for covering my hand while I type in my PIN.

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cupcake_ninja
April 19, 2009 8:17 PM
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I remember reading a few articles back to wiggle or shake the card reader before you insert your card. For the most part, how securely attached are skimmers? Does wiggling it or shaking it a bit really help? I would think thieves make an effort to secure it pretty well onto the actual machine.

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Justin Harper
April 20, 2009 3:15 PM
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@cupcake_ninja: They probably don't have time. I would imageine they want to get out of there as fast as possible without being noticed by the public and/or seen by the ATM camera.

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Xkeeper
April 19, 2009 9:48 PM
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@cupcake_ninja: As someone said above, most are just taped on. Making them secure beyond that risks discovery when they have to take it back off.

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Gaambit
April 19, 2009 8:23 PM
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Wow...thanks for the work, folks. Good examples of skimmers that I might have easily passed over. I've tried impressing upon my wife in the past to only use the Suntrust ATM that is inside our Publix, since it's always in clear view of the bank employees AND the supermarket employees, thus making it a little harder for someone to rig up something like this without getting caught. Seems I will maintain this caution.

I know we're talking about ATM's alot here, but this also reminded me to me aware of skimmers on gas pumps as well (even though the pump pictured is OK).

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Con Seannery '09: Illegal in 1 Giz
April 19, 2009 8:25 PM
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I don't use the ATM all that often, but I'll remember to keep skimmers in mind when I use one in the future.

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Applekid
April 19, 2009 8:41 PM
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Those cameras intrigue me. I'd love to find one on an ATM, take it home, and replace the videos with rick-rolls.

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Klink
April 19, 2009 9:07 PM
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@Applekid: I doubt the bank staff would be that understanding.

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TechnoDestructo
April 19, 2009 8:52 PM
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There are plenty of ATMs, even full-sized ones, that use that type of reader (never seen one that used that particular shape...it was always better integrated into the case)

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1 replies
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Benguin
April 20, 2009 12:23 AM
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@TechnoDestructo: The only ones I've seen with dip readers though are free-standing ones, usually in a mall or gas station or something. The one's at the bank have always had the motorized one as far as I've experienced.

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donovanr
April 19, 2009 8:54 PM
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A local pair of bozos were working at some gas stations with a card swiper sitting behind the cash. They would swipe the cart through their own machine and then the store's. It was a friend of mine who stepped out and called the police. The bank contacted him and basically begged / threatened him not to say anything to the press.
My wife had her card pulled after someone hooked one of these up to a local theatre's machines. If I know two people who have been hit then either I am beating the odds or this is happening much more often than we are being told.

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Anonymous
April 19, 2009 11:08 PM
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@Outrun1986: @Outrun1986: @Outrun1986: @donovanr: Having worked for the fraud department in card & internet fraud - i know there are so many devises out there that can capture & duplicate your card information, there are strap on devices for wrists, ankles, belts, etc; also button camera swipes basical meaning they can capture the details on your card and security # on the back, then that info can be use over the phone or via the internet to make shopping purchases - remember this is a big international buisness - \"money laundering\" - more so now we have the economy crisis.... i've had briefings on people driving around on major roads/highways/ motorways - picking up on internet signals & banking details - remember these people are professionals & know all the latest in technology & are coming up with new things all the time, as are all the fraud prevention teams / companies to try & stay one step ahead - it's an ongoing battle.... It's the job of the general public to be extra vidulent and basically use their common sense & go with their instinct when something doesn't feel right.... Good Luck out there !!!

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PersonalBest
April 19, 2009 9:19 PM
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@donovanr: This happened to my boyfriend and me as well. We went to a flamenco club in Madrid, and they double swiped his card. They charged 3,000 euros before he figured out something was amiss. Seems like a pretty common thing nowadays.

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Trai_Dep
April 19, 2009 8:58 PM
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Yay, Timeus, Consumerist HERO!

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Beth Coccaro
April 19, 2009 9:04 PM
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Thank you, Timeus for sharing actual real photos.

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opsomath
April 19, 2009 9:24 PM
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Good article. Love the pics of the camera: I always wondered how that would look. (I had pictured a big, visible camera posing as an ATM security camera, not something that looks like, well, a grey rectangle.)

I'm amazed at how much the banks don't seem to care. Surely, at least, if you spoke with the bank manager? After all, it's his location that's being affected.

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Outrun1986
April 19, 2009 9:27 PM
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Card skimmers have been found in my area, so I am glad there was an article about this so I am well aware of the problem and what to look for. Although it helps that I don't use ATM's personally and my family only uses them maybe 1-3 times a year. As for paying with a credit card at stores we usually don't do that either unless its a dire emergency.

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GBrown
April 21, 2009 1:03 AM
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Selling/trading your kid in them-there parts is not uncommon at all (and for a MUCH lower price, despicably).


@dolemite1975: You are the first commentator to \"get it.\" As abominable as a wretch that asshole was for trying to sell his daughter, can we imagine how much more \"despicable\" it would have been if the trade had happened and he had somehow gotten less than that -- and the tragedy, the utter tragedy, it is that other get less than 300 grand for pimping off their child. I shudder at the horror of such such a thought.


You are the first sage to get to jist of what makes this so awful. But we can't loose all hope: maybe they can sell more children and get a little closer to $300,000. That would make it a little less \"despicable,\" right? Just turn the frown upside down. :0)

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pecan 3.14159265
April 19, 2009 9:29 PM
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My ultimate security tactic is to avoid using ATMs at all. If I need cash, I'll go into my branch and pull some out. I know there are instances in which I may need cash right then and there, and I always keep an eye out for skimmers, but for the most part I avoid the ATM altogether.

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Japheaux
April 19, 2009 9:43 PM
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Crooks take it upon themselves to take your money without your permission. Let's vote these incumbents out in the next election.

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Anonymous
April 19, 2009 10:14 PM
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Word of advice: make such reports anonymously. Reporting a security hole at a courthouse earned myself a criminal investigation, not a reward (or even a \"thanks\"). Not pleasant.

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The_IT_Crone
April 19, 2009 11:09 PM
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ATMs should have a color photo of the UNTAMPERED ATM printed on their machines so that *anyone* can tell that they are different.

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theysaidwhat
April 20, 2009 12:20 PM
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@The_IT_Crone: But the scammer people could easily just post a new photo over that, couldn't they?

Maybe have a picture online of each ATM in a given zip code on the bank website so you could familiarize yourself with the ones you use frequently?

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Crystal Wojcinski
April 19, 2009 11:14 PM
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I agree totally with the idea of a color picture of the untampered with ATM on the viewscreen....and the ASCII pic of the dancing person. You know, to pass the time. On a more serious note, that does seem to be the best solution. I don't know how many people read the screen before automatically popping their card in but it would be the step the bank needs to take to reduce skimming fraud.
Also earlier, I did specifically say \"I'm by no means advocating vandalism.\" the bank doesn't deserve that but if more of these skimming stories go public, that is the sad but inevitable response as people get paranoid. If the bamks are proactive and take measures now, they can allay the fears of their customers before it happens.

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snickers
April 19, 2009 11:29 PM
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This disturbs me because I still don't know how to tell the difference between real and fake. The skimmers shown here look exactly like the same card slots my local Chase bank uses.

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the_wiggle
April 20, 2009 1:10 AM
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right. no more atms. sticking to cash back @ POS. kthx!

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anduin
April 20, 2009 1:17 AM
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this has got me scared shitless to use these now...I have a substantial amount of savings in my banks account. I've started trying to live by the philosophy that if I can't pay for stuff with cash I probably shouldn't be buying it so this kind of issue is really messing with me.

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The_IT_Crone
April 20, 2009 1:54 AM
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@anduin: I had the same philosophy, but things like this are why I got a wee credit card. Only $500 limit, so that way I'm just using it for things I would have bought with cash anyway.

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SuperJdynamite
April 20, 2009 1:33 AM
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I still think that banks should put a strip of hologram tape from top to bottom, through the path of the card reader (tucked inside for the slot where the card goes). If anybody mounts things to the ATM you'll be able to tell.

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TheObserver
April 20, 2009 1:38 AM
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What I want to know is, why isn't anyone monitoring these ATM's from the security camera installed on the machine or in the vicinity? Surely setting up a skimming machine is a wee bit more obvious compared to doing a 'regular' ATM transaction.

Can someone explain to me why people are able to attach these things in the first place without raising suspicion or escaping the notice of the security cameras?

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SJPadbury
April 20, 2009 2:06 AM
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My suggestions are to use ATM's that are in plain sight of people at all times, so someone tampering is likely to be noticed.
I always use the ATM's at Wawa, mainly because that's where I get my coffee in the morning, and because they're free.

I also suggest that when possible, always use the same ATM. That way you're not looking for something that doesn't look right, so much as looking for something that's different than the last 100 times you used it.

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Ed Greenberg
April 20, 2009 4:01 AM
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After reading the previous Consumerist articles, I went down to the local BA ATM tonight to recharge my wallet. I noticed that the card reader was surrounded by bright green blinking leds. I recall that these machines almost always have such decorations. Also, the ATM components are mostly build of cast metal, not plastic. The real McCoy should be easy to spot, once we are sensitive to it, though I grant that it's a sad thing that we have to worry about such things.

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Zagroseckt
April 20, 2009 4:04 AM
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Well i've found 2 cameras and one skimmer in my life.

i like looking for them for the cameras :)

And yes if you try to report it you get a ring around the rosy of who wants it.

which is why i just keep the cameras some are pretty neet.

locations i found
Camra ATM Bank drive through.
Camra skimmer ATM outdoors (some large strip mall i dont remember exactly where but it was a piss poor hiding job (hidden in hot pink plastick on a gray atm.)

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theysaidwhat
April 20, 2009 12:23 PM
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@Zagroseckt: So it's all about you and your entertainment? Lovely.

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ZukeZuke
April 20, 2009 4:53 AM
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Excellent find by the OP. That thing looked totally real to me. WTF!

I still advocate the death penalty for these crooks. Who's with me?

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David Ferry
April 20, 2009 6:01 AM
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Here's an idea for anyone working on preventing this stuff before it starts. Try placing bright infrared LEDs on and around the ATM keypad. Maybe you could place them behind the LCD screen. Just put them someplace that they can't be obscured without destroying the functionality of the machine.

Now, why would you do this? The super cheap super small digital camera technology is by no means perfect. In particular, low grade digital cameras will pick up infrared light in the infrared spectrum (try pointing your TV remote at your cell phone camera and pressing buttons). The idea is that you'd be able to blind any cheap digital cameras pointed at the keypad/ATM. People don't see in the infrared spectrum and thus it wouldn't affect normal use of the machine.

Another idea: instead of a hardware PIN pad you could use a software PIN pad. Instead of just replicating the hardware version you could have the buttons rearrange their order each time the machine is used. Thus, even if someone was filming the ATM unless they got a good look at the screen they couldn't tell which buttons were being pressed. Then you could use a hood or polarized glass or whatever to make it hard to film the screen.

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Stephanie Haller
April 20, 2009 6:30 AM
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Where was this in the Seattle area?

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godai
April 20, 2009 1:11 PM
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I sort of wonder what the resell value of a skimmer/micro cameras are?


Obviously wiping the data first. But that could be alot of 2gig micro cards.

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josh8241
April 20, 2009 1:39 PM
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I miss the care free days. :(

When I could just swipe my card and not have to think twice about any kind of fraud.

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tinyhands
April 20, 2009 1:40 PM
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Dear Consumerist,
Please post the names of banks and police departments that don't know what to do when these are found. Your previous article mentions the \"bank says give it to the police, police say give it to the bank\" runaround. I'd like to avoid these banks (since I already generally avoid the po-po) if possible.

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Saboth
April 20, 2009 1:41 PM
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They should offer rewards for finding them. $100 a pop. Of course this would probably just encourage kids to make fake skimmers and say they \"found\" them.

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Ron Mexico
April 20, 2009 6:36 PM
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@Saboth: That's easy enough to combat. Ask where and when it was found, then check the tape.

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JGKojak
April 20, 2009 2:10 PM
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This disturbs me:
\"If we don't get notified, potentially hundreds, maybe thousands of accounts are at risk for fraud depending on how busy a particular ATM is.\"


Excuse me. Its YOUR ATM. The bank is saying that the ATM is secure by the virtue of putting their name on it. So whether or not its uncovered right away, you better be darn nice about any one reporting fraud during a skimming incident, and, hey, a couple dozen people suddenly reporting fraud should alert you to something. I don't buy this, tough luck, you're out the money business.

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thrillhoV
April 20, 2009 2:18 PM
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Looking at that link for the camera

\" Recording Mode: Continuous recording until memory is full or manually off
 Record Time:4-6 hours\"

if this particular camera only has a 4-6 hour window, there is a good chance the crook isn't too far away...

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usa_gatekeeper
April 20, 2009 2:22 PM
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So a man stands outside the ATM bragging about how he can't get skimmed because he won't use the ATM.

Meanwhile, a scammer is reading mag strip data off the cards in his pocketed wallet using one of the new proximity readers.

[a stretch of technology perhaps, but isn't it heading in that direction?]

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sam-i-am
April 20, 2009 5:10 PM
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WHy don't the police leave the device there but disable it. Then do a good old fashioned stake out and wait for the criminal to come collect?

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springboks
April 20, 2009 6:07 PM
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Don't most newer ATMs already have a camera on them. They could skim the skimmer?

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Ron Mexico
April 20, 2009 6:46 PM
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There is video technology out there that would help the banks deal with this issue. Tollroad and other transportation authorities use software that monitors their cameras for any unusual lack of movement. The software knows what should be stationary (the roads, trees, barriers, etc), and ignores anything that's moving (cars, trucks). Then if the camera sees something stationary that the software doesn't recognize (broken down car, accident, mattress fallen off a truck), the software alerts the operators that something is up. Works like a charm.


I like the idea about the LED lights on the card reader that someone mentioned in another thread. Maybe they could take it one step farther and show a pattern with the lights around the card reader, and ask the customer to pick the correct pattern from an array on the screen.


Or if they really want to go all out, they could give their customers the option to use the rotating code stuff from Verisign that was mentioned here recently. Swipe your card, enter your pin, then enter the six digit code from your key fob or phone. That'd make the card information and PIN number useless without the device providing the codes.


In other words, it seems like there are a lot of solutions out there for banks to address this problem. Hopefully they'll get it together.

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Melanie Johnson
April 20, 2009 8:48 PM
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Hey there - I am an expat living in London, where this has been a huge problem at least as long as I've lived here (nearly 7 years). The problem is so rife here nearly all of my friends have been hit at least once, and quite a few of them twice or more.

Anyway one thing that always seems to come up in friends' stories is that they often \"felt\" there was something wrong with the ATM, but they used it anyway. That has taught me to NEVER use an ATM that seems \"off\" in any way.

Another thing I do if there is more than one ATM and I think the one I'm at is a little sketchy is I will have a look at the others to see if the slot looks the same. If in doubt, use another ATM.

Oh, and always shield your pin!

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Mozoltov, motherfucker
April 20, 2009 9:45 PM
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Another thing to know is what your machines look like. I know in most situations you don't pay attention, but at least in SoCal, none of the BofA machines have a \"dip reader\", the machines all take the cards internally, even the old machines.

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Ernest Pensky
April 20, 2009 11:09 PM
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Unfortunately, the newer skimmers being found do not rely on cameras anymore. The bad-guys have been able to hack in to the key pad, or on gas pumps, put a duplicate membrane keypad overlay on the existing key pad.

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soulfinger
April 20, 2009 11:58 PM
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Figures the police dont know what to do. Hey maybe set up a van and wait til they come to retrieve it then arrest them. Is it really that difficult to figure out?

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Christopher Browne
April 21, 2009 2:30 AM
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Once again, hacking \"people\" is the most effective way to steal. Now I'm gonna keep an eye out for this.

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Peter Ramsey
May 12, 2009 9:45 AM
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The skimmer appears to be a small rectangular box below the regular ATM slot. It's got a pinhole (remember to look for that) and it can easily be disabled if spotted.
I like the idea of slapping gum over it but the best thing to do is contact the bank manager. Resist the temptation to rip the thing off the ATM. That would destroy evidence and leave (your) fingerprints on it!
Good luck, folks. And always cover your pin numbers when punching that information in - some ATMs now have a cover that does help.

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Doc Meyer
May 12, 2009 2:25 PM
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If these skimmer techs put their skills to good use...

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Anonymous
May 12, 2009 2:45 PM
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My BOA has a dip reader, but I make it a point not to release it. It looks alot like the reader in your picture!I too want to know, what \"SHOULD\" the ATM slot look like? if most ATM's are switching to full video screens, or partial. they should display a screen of this ATM should look like \"Blah\"

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Anonymous
May 30, 2009 6:25 AM
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I work for a bank, I thought this could never happen to me because I look for these things but just today I found that for the last three days someone skimmed my card. They spent over $1600 worth of my money in three days before I caught it. My bank is crediting me back for the charges but this still scares the crap out of me. I have a feeling it must have been at a gas station because I rarely use atm machines.

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annec
August 4, 2010 6:37 AM
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We recently took a trip to Europe. I read that, over there many credit cards require a pin number to use them. Charging dinner, paying for the hotel, buying a dress, whatever, would require a pin number. I like the idea and would scoop up such a card if a bank offered me one.

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