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kewl132
April 23, 2009 2:03 PM
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Haggle all the time. One of the best places is Discount Tire haggled my $160/each Yokohama Tires down to $120+warrenty each.

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billlnv
April 27, 2009 7:44 PM
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@kewl132: I went to Discount Tire to get a set of tires for my wife's car. The ones that I had picked out online where $60 for a 45000 mile tire. Before I got a chance top haggle the price the employee looked at me and asked if I would like a better tire for the same price. Of course I said \"YES!\". After I got the tires on my car and got the service statement I checked to see how much better they were. They gave me a $104 85000 mile tire for $60. I had bought 4. Best deal that I have ever got without having to haggle the price.

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anduin
April 26, 2009 6:01 AM
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@kewl132:
that is still a lot for tires...damn, I was getting nice sets for 80$ a pop with the 4th free...then again mine were 15s

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TexasMama37
April 23, 2009 7:23 PM
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@kewl132: We haggle at Firestone all the time. Their prices are so insanely inflated in the first place that they are almost always willing to discount something on the bill.

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Radi0logy
April 23, 2009 2:04 PM
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Yeah sure. I want my life to feel MORE like a 24/7 garage sale.

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anduin
April 26, 2009 6:01 AM
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@Radi0logy:
and thats why youll be working until youre 70...

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unobservant
April 23, 2009 4:55 PM
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@Radi0logy: Seriously. To think that prices are different depending on your ability to complain about them seems odd to me.

I bitch, and you give me a better price as a reward? What message does this send?

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stephennmcdonald
April 23, 2009 8:03 PM
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@unobservant: it's not bitching, it's bargaining. there's a very big difference. what it says is that we realize that prices are regularly ridiculously inflated and we as informed consumers aren't going to fall for it anymore. the vocal minority who is willing to haggle will get an actual fair price instead of the \"sucker\" price everyone else pays, which we all know is ridiculous to begin with.

you could easily turn your sentence around and say \"to think that this TV is worth $1000 at store A, but worth $1200 at store B, when the parts, labor and marketing only cost $300 seems odd to me\"

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BytheSea
April 25, 2009 3:46 AM
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@stephennmcdonald: It is bitching to the minimum wage hourly employee who doesn't care about establishing relationships b/c you're one of amillion customers who will come inthat year and he knows you won't be back. Also, he's not empowered to reduce prices. Usually the manager isn't, either. Prices are set by suits in big cities far away.

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stephennmcdonald
April 23, 2009 8:07 PM
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@ Wuhao: thank you for explaining in much better language what i was stumbling over.

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Scarficus Rex
April 23, 2009 6:17 PM
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@unobservant: The holy grail of all pricing schemes is price discrimination: the ability to charge each customer the most they'd be willing to pay. That's not really possible with the price sticker model, so the stores set a price to what they expect most people would be willing to pay, understanding that while the people they're losing would have offered a lower profit anyway, they now have zero profit off those people. For items which aren't flying off the shelves, they'd still be happy if they could reach new customers by selling the item to them at a lower price.

So when you walk in and haggle on that flatscreen TV, you're not trying to \"complain.\" You're advertising yourself as an informed consumer who isn't reached at that price point, and you're inviting them to price discriminate in order to sell a TV. If the customer really would prefer to walk away from the purchase if it doesn't come under a certain price point, then this is beneficial to both the customer and the merchant.

To me, the message that is sent here is that one should always look for opportunities to create value in their relationships by working with partners to question and change the rules in a mutually beneficial manner.

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unobservant
April 23, 2009 6:29 PM
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@Wuhao: It's bad enough that \"haggling\" is such an ugly-sounding word; now we're using \"discrimination\"? Way to sell the concept.

As a business owner, I charge one rate for everyone. Nobody is more special tha anyone else. I call it \"price equality\".

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Corporate-Shill
April 24, 2009 1:29 AM
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@unobservant:


What a concept.


I call it fairness.


The way I look at the issue, if I can afford to sell it for less to one customer then I can afford to sell it for less to ALL customers.

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crowbaby
April 24, 2009 2:47 PM
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@Corporate-Shill:
I think you're taking this too personally. While I see where you're coming from, aren't there times that you would be willing to give a break on an item, say a slow seller that you only have a few of that you don't intend to stock again? You can still make a few bucks, the buyer gets an added discount and you can use the shelf space for something with a better turnover rate. Win/win.

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Scarficus Rex
April 23, 2009 7:05 PM
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@unobservant: I'm not \"selling\" anything. I'm explaining, using well-established economic terminology like \"price discrimination,\" why haggling makes sense for both the seller and the buyer, and why it's not a matter of \"complaining,\" but of identifying an otherwise untapped opportunity.

If you're distracted by the word \"discrimination\" and are confusing it with charging black people more, then fear not, that's not the idea.

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HalOfBorg
April 23, 2009 2:05 PM
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I guess I do haggle. Last night I got BestBuy (do NOT look at me that way - I HAD to go there) to price match Walmart. With no ad, no proof, and they didn't check. On an item they don't sell in the stores.

I don't feel bad - price I paid is what it costs everywhere else.

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anduin
April 26, 2009 6:05 AM
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@HalOfBorg:
I did the same with a tv I bought last summer, first i went to best buy (ugh i felt dirty) got them to give me their absolute best price then went to a specialty electronics store, presented the best buy offer and got another 10% off + 4 year warranty IN the cheaper price (about 3-400$ value). All I can say is I saved enough money that I could now afford to buy a ps3 bundle pack + some games with all the money I saved.

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Etoiles
April 23, 2009 2:06 PM
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Just please, please don't try to haggle at your grocery store, CVS, or fast food location of choice. All you will do is annoy the clerk who really can't change a damn thing, and piss off the line of people behind you as it gets longer and longer.

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Papercutninja
April 23, 2009 2:40 PM
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@Etoiles: Yeah, there are actually people behind you that ARE willing to spend money. Go to the customer service counter if you're asking for a nickel off on your dented can of chicken broth, PLEASE.
ALL i want to do is to go home after food shopping, and i don't need any more people slowing up the lines!

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JulesNoctambule
April 23, 2009 2:38 PM
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@Etoiles: People tried this with me when I worked retail. They failed to comprehend that 'chick at the register' was not the same as 'massive corporate entity that sets the prices'.

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RecordStoreToughGuy_starcommandseries.com
April 23, 2009 3:21 PM
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@JulesNoctambule: I'd always get the \"Why are your prices so high?\" My answer was usually either \"You're in the mall,\" or \"Because that's what the guy in the cubicle at corporate decided to price it at.\"

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JulesNoctambule
April 23, 2009 4:18 PM
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@RecordStoreToughGuy: Yes, that one's a classic.
'Why does this cost so much?'
Because that's the price corporate decided to stick on the item. Got an issue with it? Here's the number for headquarters; thank you and please go away now.

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j-o-h-n
April 23, 2009 2:33 PM
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@Etoiles: Just don't do it at the checkout line -- when I was but a young lad, I worked in the produce dept of a large regional grocery chain.

We would routinely markdown stuff that was \"Below 'Brand' Quality\" to get it off the shelf. If you asked nicely, I'd mark it down even more to avoid just having to throw it away at the end of the day.

(Aside: the cashiers just 'loved' my relatively prime pricing. 3# of bananas, let's price that at 97c/7#s).

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PencilSharp
April 23, 2009 3:15 PM
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@j-o-h-n: (Aside: the cashiers just 'loved' my relatively prime pricing. 3# of bananas, let's price that at 97c/7#s)

AHA! So you're the one who kept doing that. On behalf of every Customer Service Manager on the planet who has had to deal with a befuddled cashier who can't divide 97 by 7...

Thbfpttttt....!

XOXO

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Anonymous
April 23, 2009 2:06 PM
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I just did this with my cellphone plan. I'm with Verizon, and we were on their lowest family plan. I did a little research and found out that T-Mobile, Sprint, and AT&T offered cheaper plans that fit our usage. So I called up Verizon (after searching online for better plan options) and told them that we were thinking about switching carriers - they reduced our bill, and we're all happy.

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HogwartsAlum
April 23, 2009 2:07 PM
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Every time I try to do this they say \"No.\" As far as the leaving if you don't get the discount, most of the time I can't buy it anyway without the discount, so I HAVE to leave. It doesn't do any good.

I must suck at it.

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Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!)
April 23, 2009 8:35 PM
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@HogwartsAlum: And some places you can and some places you can't ... and it depends on how much you're buying, and how loyal a customer you are. When I'm buying $1300 of suits for my husband, you bet your ass they're willing to haggle with me. Ditto my jeweler, because we not only patronize him frequently but I bring him a lot of business.

Fast food places right before closing will sometimes give you extra or a double portion or a freebie because they can't keep the food overnight. Sometimes not.

And remember the magic phrase: \"My spouse won't let me.\"

When I go electronics shopping and they try to upsell me, I just keep saying, \"Well, my husband told me which one to get, and he'll be really mad if I get the wrong one! I wrote down the number to be sure I got the right one.\" \"Oh, my husband told me to only pay $50 for this, so if it costs more than that, I don't think I can get it today.\" (\"Why don't you call him on your cell and check?\" \"Oh, he's in court.\")

And when HE goes electronics shopping, he says, \"Man, I think my wife would KILL me if I spent more than $75 on electronic toys.\"

This only works if the salespeople are willing to believe that your marriage lives in 1950 and that stereotypes are good, but a shocking number of them are. (And frequently they start it by talking to me like I'm an idiot for having boobs appended to my torso.) They can't argue with an absent spouse, and they know that no amount of wheedling YOU is going to convince you to do something that will snark off your significant other.

Good cop/bad cop also works really well in person when car shopping or something like that. One half of the couple can express interest, while the other half says, \"No, that's too much.\" The salesman can TASTE the sale because half of you are interested, but the other half of you are keeping the wallet closed.

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polymer girl
April 24, 2009 8:37 PM
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@Eyebrows McGee (on Twitter: LPetelle): My husband and I use good cop/bad cop for most negotiations. He is really good at getting people to like him and want to help him. I don't always come across so nice. So, he's the good cop, I'm the bad cop and the people go out of their way to help out the guy with the hard ass wife. The funny thing is, in reality, he is the cheaper of the 2 of us. It works really well.

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anduin
April 26, 2009 6:11 AM
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@polymer girl:
my dad and I have done something similar, Ill play the enthusiastic, really want the gadget or item while he plays the dad who won`t budge but is there with me anyway. Turns the salesmen into cracking experts trying to read my dad and hes from Europe so he knows what its like to haggle on a day to day basis.

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theczardictates
April 23, 2009 11:21 PM
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@Eyebrows McGee (on Twitter: LPetelle): This is a GREAT tactic. Seriously -- there is a lot of rigorous research out there on how best to bargain, and one of the best tactics is to establish some limit that is out of your control, i.e. \"Man, I think my wife would KILL me if I spent more than $75 on electronic toys.\" This is exactly what the car salesman is doing when he says \"I'd like to give you that price but my boss won't approve it.\"

Whenever my wife and I shop together for some big ticket item, we agree beforehand who will be Bad Cop and who will be Good Cop. And when I say \"agree\", what I mean is, she always gets to be Bad Cop, dammit.

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HogwartsAlum
April 23, 2009 9:54 PM
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@Eyebrows McGee (on Twitter: LPetelle):

Ah ha ha ha! You guys are sneaky!

Only problem is, I don't have a spouse. :'( :P

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snowburnt
April 23, 2009 3:03 PM
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@HogwartsAlum: A) know what you want. Research online, go in store, take notes, get demos from sales people, but when you're getting the demos don't buy. Make sure you have all of the information you need, know the price range, know your model.

B) Let the sales person talk to you, don't let them talk down to you.

C) Use your information. Tell the sales guy that you appreciate his help and you're interested, but the guy at (another store) would knock it down to (5% less than you want to pay). He'll probably try to upsell a warranty, make sure you know the ins and outs there, most of the time it's not worth it, you can use that as leverage to drive the price down too.

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Kogenta
April 23, 2009 3:43 PM
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@snowburnt: Also as a bonus tip, try to figure out what the best discount a floor rep can give you without needing to get all sorts of authorization.


Some places gives floor associates in the electronics dept and such a small amount of wiggle room that doesn't require manager approval as long as they don't use it too much (ie, floor model sales discount). You may also be able to negotiate the \"last sale price\" if it's the display and it's not something that's typically on sale every other week but does come on every once in a while.


Also, if you shop at a particular location, get to know the staff. It makes your bargin power go up if you know the people and they know you. It also tends to reduce the amount of upsell they'll try to push unless they genuinely believe it's a good buy.

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HogwartsAlum
April 23, 2009 3:55 PM
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@Kogenta:

Thank you , Kogenta and snowburnt. I'll try it. I'm saving these posts. *emails them to myself*

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Applekid
April 23, 2009 2:09 PM
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I just can't bring myself to haggle. I detest doing it with cars, got annoyed with figuring out a good offer on a house below asking price and I just won't do it in other areas of my life.

I guess I'm not hard up enough with my finances to let the need overtake my pride.

Also, pro tip: haggling with hookers yields lesser service (or none!), and haggling with the blow dealer yields no blow (or a punch in the gut)

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Blueskylaw
April 23, 2009 8:06 PM
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@Applekid:


After coming back from the shopping mall on nice lazy Sundays (one hour drive), I used to stop at new car dealerships, sit down and haggle over car prices just for fun.
(It's nice to see what kind of tactics they try to use, luckily I'm immune)

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zibby
April 23, 2009 2:57 PM
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@Applekid: Well, it doesn't come up that often I guess...but just throw something out there on housing. Especially now. I did, and I saved 5 grand. Yeah, it's a lousy 5 grand on a house, but it's 5 grand.

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me and the sysop
April 23, 2009 2:18 PM
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@Applekid: I just view it as a pain in the ass. The last car I bought required so much salesman soul-crushing (I even managed to get the sales manager at one dealership yelled at by the general manager) that I'm dreading having to do it again.

My dad is the ultimate haggler, though, and keeps insisting I need to be willing to walk away. He went to one dealership and just wanted the monthly payments reduced by $50, but they said no. So he left and went to another dealership. As he's signing the papers at the other place, the first place calls and says, \"Oh OKAY, FINE, we'll do the lower price.\" He just laughed and said too late.

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theczardictates
April 23, 2009 11:24 PM
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@me and the sysop: If it makes you feel any better, the yelling was almost certainly an act for your benefit, to make you feel like you'd gotten the best deal you were going to get.

And yes, I wish it didn't have to be such a performance just to buy a damn car.

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Megan Squier
April 23, 2009 3:06 PM
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@me and the sysop: I thought that was the point at car dealerships? They do enough customer soul crushing that I figure its just karma if they get yelled at by management. lol

I guess I'm like you're dad; no deal unless its on my terms. I like playing mind games with these guys; it breaks up the monotony of being a housewife ;) and is a ton of fun. Call me sick, but I've seen too many people get burned on car sales.

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Frank Murphy
April 23, 2009 2:12 PM
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When paying cash as opposed to credit it can often work.

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Etoiles
April 23, 2009 2:17 PM
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@Frank Murphy: Actually, that's useful, and a reminder to take advantage of the situation.

For example, one rainy Saturday in NYC I was trying to buy two RCA cables at $11.99 each. The store's credit card machine was out and they were having to authorize every plastic transaction by hand and on the phone, so when I said, \"I have $18 in my wallet,\" that's what I ended up paying for the pair. Extraordinary circumstance, sure, but having cash in hand is the whole reason I got the discount.

(PC Richards on 86th near Lex, FWIW. I ended up there by accident but the staff there were the nicest and most competent I ever met in an electronics / appliance shop in New York.)

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litrock
April 23, 2009 2:14 PM
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No way. I'll research and find what the market price is, but I don't really feel like going out of my way to try to talk it below that. If I'm not willing to pay the price, I just won't buy it.

I know I'm probably paying more in the long run, but I'm one of those people who thinks haggling is really, really tacky. Especially on new items.

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bibliophibian
April 24, 2009 1:11 AM
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@litrock: I agree with this, except for the \"feels tacky/dirty\" part. For me, it creates this never-ending spiral where I don't dare buy it at one place because what if the next place will sell it cheaper? And then what should be a simple exchange of money for goods/services becomes a bitter and resentful experience, and I'm always left feeling unhappy - IF I even buy the item. I've been \"thinking about\" getting a new TV for two years, but can't bring myself to do it because of exactly this.

I understand why free markets are good, but MAN sometimes I wish that there were just rules and consistency, and not all this \"it's $30 cheaper over there, and maybe some other place will have it even cheaper than that\" stuff. Pfeh.

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Sasselhoff
April 23, 2009 7:47 PM
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@litrock: I think that the fact we tend to run into idiots that don't know how to haggle and instead just make a scene, could be why many have a bad taste in their mouth when thinking about haggling. Usually it just takes being nice to a CSR/Salesman; if you've got to \"bitch\" or make a scene, you are doing it wrong and it ain't worth it.

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Rectilinear Propagation
April 23, 2009 2:41 PM
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I know I'm probably paying more in the long run, but I'm one of those people who thinks haggling is really, really tacky.

@litrock: It just seems like you're either begging the salesperson for a fair deal (buying a car) or you're asking to pay less than a fair price.

I can't imagine doing it outside of certain circumstances without feeling like a jerk.

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Rectilinear Propagation
April 23, 2009 2:41 PM
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@Rectilinear Propagation: By certain circumstances, I mean where you already have to haggle.

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pecan 3.14159265
April 23, 2009 2:19 PM
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@litrock: I would try to haggle even when I know I'm getting the best deal, because then it just makes a good deal even better. If I walk into a store, it's probably because that store has the best deal on what I want, and then I'll try to squeeze a little more,.

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Megan Squier
April 23, 2009 3:10 PM
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@pecan 3.14159265: Amen 3.14! My sentiments exactly! I got a furniture store salesman to take $50 off of a really nice floor model sofa already marked down to $700 from $1400 just by asking nicely. He even gave me free same day delivery. I gave his drivers a big tip for that.

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pecan 3.14159265
April 23, 2009 3:13 PM
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@Megan Squier: And $50 is $50 you didn't have to spend. And all you did was put a little effort into talking to the people! When I get my iPhone, you betcha I'm going to try to get as many discounts as I can.

Also, haggling is kind of fun, and is an interesting mental exercise.

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litrock
April 23, 2009 2:24 PM
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@pecan 3.14159265: Yeah, I can't do that. I'd rather just pay what they're asking or not. Paying more is likely, sure, but ... the few times I've tried haggling I felt dirty dirty dirty. I won't do it for savings.

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dragonfire81
April 23, 2009 2:47 PM
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@litrock: There are two main problems with most hagglers I encounter at work:

1) They don't follow rule #4 up there and instead of leaving when told no, start to get increasingly bitchy at me, demand a manager, demand our corporate number and all for a $5 discount? That's enough to put me in a really bad mood.

2) Most people don't seem to have a good grasp on what you can and can't haggle. Just saying \"high dollar electronics\" is too vague. Good luck trying to get anyone to drop their price on a PS3. Unless you are buying an opened floor model or something, you won't find a discount. The reason is companies are making practically no profit margin on the PS3 so there's no wiggle room for a discount. HDTVs and Digital cameras or a different story but most electronics places don't really offer many discounts.

Buying a car, getting home repairs done, buying appliances, etc. These are the things commonly haggled on.

If you want any success haggling in a store, your best bet is a mom-and-pop shop or a second hand store. Profit margins on used items are generally significant, so the merchant has a wide latitude to negotiate.

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Dansc29625
April 23, 2009 2:17 PM
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I have seen that most retailers are more apt to give a discount if there is a good reason. Matching something or taking 10% off because of having to wait a long time or something like that.

\"Any discount, is that the best you can do?\" the reply is, \"The discount is already applied, we have everyday low prices.\"

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recessiontips
April 23, 2009 2:22 PM
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This is a great technique for consumers because many businesses will drop their stated prices, especially at the end of the month when sales quotas need to be met and bills need to be paid.

From a business perspective, however, dropping your price for a haggler is a losing game. If you drop your prices, it may cause competitors to match the drop. Before you know it, the market price for your $500 item is now $400. And once prices are dropped, it's hard to raise them again.

Also, the customer who haggles is usually going to be a PITA customer compared to the one who pays, takes the item and goes home. In fact, you are more likely to get a chargeback from the haggler than you are from the straight up retail payer.

That said, consumers can absolutely benefit from the tactic because someone is usually willing to drop their price to make a sale that may have ultimately gone to a superior competitor.

It's great for consumers but if you're a business owner, tread carefully when it comes to haggling responsiveness.

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Megan Squier
April 23, 2009 3:19 PM
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@recessiontips: I'm a haggler but only on something I really want and after I've done significant research. I buy older (harder to move) used cars and if you're asking book but the car has some problems that are going to take time (and money) to fix; expect a run for your money. I know that you need me more than I need you.

I usually don't do it on electronics because of the profit margin and I'm not even going to look at it if the price isn't good to begin with.

As for other consumer goods I'll do it on closeout/floor model items if they are damaged. I got a really nice artificial Christmas tree for $40 (regular $200) at Home Depot after Christmas that way. One light strand was bad so I just asked what was the best they could do on it. Manager came up and said $40 so I took it.

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Steel_Pelican
April 23, 2009 2:26 PM
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Where do you people shop where the clerks have the authority and tools to give arbitrary discounts?

Price-matching is one thing, since most stores have printed policies and procedures for this, but I feel like this article is talking about something else.

Also, to echo a previous post, please- NEVER do this at a grocery store, drug store, etc. You're just being a dick to the staff (who can't change the price) and everyone in line behind you who has to lose 20 minutes so you can save $2.

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Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!)
April 23, 2009 8:38 PM
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@Steel_Pelican: You deal with a manager, and you have a good reason -- it's a floor model, scratch-and-dent, I'm buying large quantities, etc.

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bnelson333
April 23, 2009 2:32 PM
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I do when it makes sense. Chain stores rarely give you a deal, and nobody's going to give you a deal on a pack of gum.


But for example when I was outfitting our bikes with new tires, I went to an independent bike shop and asked the guy if he'd give me a deal if I bought 4 tires as opposed to just 2 (he didn't know I was fixing two bikes). He knocked off about $5 a tire, so I saved $20 that I can now spend on something else.


And actually it was a win-win because I went back to the same store a few days later to buy two new bike helmets.

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JeanStork
April 23, 2009 2:33 PM
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Biggest tip, open a dialogue with the sales associate. Dont just walk up and say \"Hey, discount..\" Lure the sales associate and make him think he lured you in... Then gracefully say, \"If the price were a little lower, i would definitely get it.\" wait a couple seconds, then pitch your request...

Worst case, they'll say no...

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BytheSea
April 25, 2009 3:52 AM
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@JeanStork: Yeah they've never heard that before. Must be their first minute on the job.

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lockdog
April 24, 2009 1:52 AM
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@JeanStork:Bad advice. Don't do it. While you're trying to \"lure me in\" I'm going to show you all of the cool features and nice details about whatever you are going looking at. Mostly I'll work towards getting you to talk about the item and all the things you like about it, and then I'll tell you how smart you are for noticing them. I'll invest as much of your time and emotions in the item as possible. When you ask for the discount, I'm going to tell you three or four people have been looking at that item today. I'll tell you I think its going to sell this weekend, but if you need a lower price, check back because we'll mark it down on Tuesday.

Half the time I close the sale, if not, on Tuesday morning I have all three or four customer waiting at the front door to be the first to get it at a some measly sale price.

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dragonfire81
April 24, 2009 10:37 PM
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@dwasifar: I think it's great you pulled yourself out of lower end jobs and took pride in your work.

The problem is that not a lot of lower end people take pride in their work these days.

It can oftentimes be hard to be prideful when you are constantly treated poorly, screwed over, mismanaged and/or micromanaged beyond belief or not respected at all by your superiors.

Businesses these days, especially corporate entities are typically only concerned about numbers.

They don't care what kind of person Joe at Minnesota store # 562 is or how enthusiastic he his about his job. All they care about is how many extra warranties, protection plans and store loyalty cards he can push on customers every day.

Someone who loves a job but doesn't get the numbers, even if they are great at general merchandise sales, won't last long anywhere anymore.

And besides, if you know your company only looks at you as numbers on a spreadsheet and nothing else, are you really going to feel that compelled to bust your ass for them?

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RecordStoreToughGuy_starcommandseries.com
April 23, 2009 2:49 PM
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@JeanStork: I had people do this all the time. Sometimes they'd pull the \"well, X has it cheaper,\" and my reply was invariably \"Well, I'd buy that one, then.\"

They never knew quite how to react to that, and I'd usually just ask them if there was anything else I could help them with.

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edwardso
April 23, 2009 7:54 PM
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@RecordStoreToughGuy: I had the same experience \"it's cheaper at Vitamin Cottage\" well, then. have a nice trip

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dwasifar
April 23, 2009 4:20 PM
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@RecordStoreToughGuy: \"I had people do this all the time. Sometimes they'd pull the \"well, X has it cheaper,\" and my reply was invariably \"Well, I'd buy that one, then.\"\"

If you were my employee, and I saw you do that, I would suggest to you that you should also go to store X. This suggestion would be accompanied by your final paycheck.

The reason the people never knew how to react was that you were essentially saying \"fuck off and get out of here,\" sugar-coated with false courtesy. As you know. And as you also know, customers will do that, never to return. I know you've already said you didn't care if the customers were satisfied, so you were a poor fit for the job and should have been fired from it if you didn't have the sense to quit first.

There are a lot of ways that you could reply to an opening negotiation without snidely sending the customer away. Many of them have been suggested in this thread already. I don't care how unmotivated you were in that job, there's no reason why you couldn't have simply said, for example, \"Oh, I'm sorry, but I don't have the authority to price match.\" If you actually wanted to do the job right, you could have talked about the better service and selection they receive at your store vs. Store X, or whatever your store actually had going for it.

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edwardso
April 23, 2009 7:59 PM
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@dwasifar: you don't strike me as a person who had to listen to that sort of comment 10 times per day for an extended period of time recordstoretoughguy does

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dwasifar
April 23, 2009 8:07 PM
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@edwardso: \"you don't strike me as a person who had to listen to that sort of comment 10 times per day for an extended period of time recordstoretoughguy does.\"

Cry me a river. :)

Dealing with customer questions is part of the job. It's not customer #10's fault if you're irritated with customers 1 through 9. If you don't want to deal with it, you should get a different job, not take it out on the customers.

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RecordStoreToughGuy_starcommandseries.com
April 23, 2009 5:28 PM
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@dwasifar: \"If you were my employee, and I saw you do that, I would suggest to you that you should also go to store X. This suggestion would be accompanied by your final paycheck.\"

Except my manager would and had told them the exact same. In fact, I had a customer complain about it, and she asked him why he was upset that I was trying to save him a few bucks.

You're right, I was indeed telling them to go somewhere else. Because our prices were set, and we couldn't change them. And I'd rather save a person some cash and have them remember that than to rip them off on overpriced accessories that they could indeed find cheaper somewhere else.

For CDs, though, I used a different tactic. If they mentioned how much more expensive we were than, say, Wal-Mart, or Best Buy, then yes, I'd point out that those stores did not have an extensive back catalog, which we did, or that the employees there probably were not as knowledgeable about music as we were (and there were several times when someone started a question with \"you've probably never heard of this, but...\" only to find out that we had not only heard of it, but we actually knew a little bit about the subject, even if we didn't actively follow the band).

So I was actually a pretty good fit for the job, since I knew my shit when it came to music and regularly had the highest daily and contest numbers, without, I might add, haggling on prices. But I usually had a good motivation to meet those numbers through some form of compensation (although if I thought a contest item was shit, I wouldn't push it, since I'm not going to suggest a crappy CD just to win a prize. I do that, and you never trust my judgement on a CD again, and never come back). Like I said below, my job was to make you pay more by making you buy more stuff, not cut you a deal because you thought our prices were too high. Plenty of people had no problem paying full price for the same items, so why should I even bother to reply to an opening to negotiate?

I agree with your main post below, though; there are certainly times when haggling is acceptable. Retail, though, is not really one of those places. I had no problem with people asking about specials, or if we could do any better on prices, as long as they were willing to accept my answer and either politely decline the transaction, or go ahead and pay the marked price. If you were willing to walk from the transaction, I certainly wasn't going to stop you.

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edwardso
April 23, 2009 8:03 PM
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@RecordStoreToughGuy: i used to get the \"you probably can't help me but...\" all the time too, it drove me crazy.

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dwasifar
April 23, 2009 7:29 PM
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@RecordStoreToughGuy: \"Except my manager would and had told them the exact same. In fact, I had a customer complain about it, and she asked him why he was upset that I was trying to save him a few bucks.

You're right, I was indeed telling them to go somewhere else. Because our prices were set, and we couldn't change them. And I'd rather save a person some cash and have them remember that than to rip them off on overpriced accessories that they could indeed find cheaper somewhere else.\"

It looks a little different when you explain it in that context. And of course there are situations where you eventually have to tell the customer that if they want that price, they'll have to buy elsewhere. But you absolutely shouldn't lead with it the way you did. It's a slap in the face to the customer. Your manager was marginally more justified in backing you up, because by then it was a response to an escalated issue and not the first volley. But not by much.

\"I agree with your main post below, though; there are certainly times when haggling is acceptable. Retail, though, is not really one of those places.\"

Really? Because I've bought a tremendous lot of stuff at retail and haggled successfully. Just off the top of my head: washing machines, dishwashers, refrigerators, computer hardware, bicycles, guitars, pianos, mattresses, furniture, paint, antiques, firearms, stereo equipment, and more cars than I can list. If it's unacceptable to haggle on these items, why do I consistently succeed at it?

By the way, I agree with you about the promotion contest records. I worked in a couple of record stores too, in my day, and it was really hard to make myself push the promo item because it was invariably shit. The worst was the promotion (this should date me) for Billy Squier's \"The Stroke\"; our store manager wanted us to win a contest and so for weeks we had to answer the phone with \"Ask me about The Stroke!\" instead of \"Good afternoon, [store name], how may I help you!\" It was horribly embarrassing.

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RecordStoreToughGuy_starcommandseries.com
April 23, 2009 8:46 PM
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@dwasifar: Yeah, I wrote it that way mostly because I thought it'd be funnier. The context makes it understandable, but less entertaining. ^_^

I was also perhaps a bit broad in my classification of retail. Most of what you listed seem (to me at least), to be items that are sold mostly on commission. In that case, most salesmen do have more wiggle room than a lowly record store clerk. I think it depends, too, on whether you're buying from locally owned and operated stores, or big box retailers. If I own the place, I have a lot more leeway to adjust a price than a big-box wage slave.

I can see how the Billy Squier phone greeting could go disastrously, hilariously wrong. At least they didn't make you say \"Thank you for calling [store name], where you can get Stroked!\" :D

(A bit off-topic: One of the CDs were were supposed to promote as part of a contest was one of Monica's last few releases; I forget which, but it wasn't very good. At the same time, though there was this album by this guy by the name of Van Hunt. This guy was incredible-- he's been compared to Sly and the Family Stone, Marvin Gaye, and Prince's early work. One of the best R&B albums I'd heard in a long time, and we had been selling EVERYONE on this guy. We ended up refusing to sell people on the Monica CD, but tracked the Van Hunt sales, just to prove that we were suggestive selling, but we were doing it with a CD that wouldn't ruin our credibility. ^_^)

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dwasifar
April 23, 2009 9:07 PM
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@RecordStoreToughGuy: Just checked out the Van Hunt website. High quality stuff. Not my taste, exactly, but still good. :)

I understand exaggerating for effect. I do it all the time. Still think you could have handled it better, but then again the customer could have been more direct, too. \"Do you price match?\" \"No, sorry.\" Question answered, nobody's rude, everyone's happy.

I had a feeling that you and I were meaning different things by \"retail,\" but I thought I'd give you a chance to say so. :) I think haggling and asking for a price match are two different things, really. The former is an individual negotiation; the latter's just a policy. I'll sometimes ask if a retailer (your kind of retailer) will price match, but if they say no, that's the end of it. No point in pushing. At that point I decide if I want to buy it there for more, or drive down the street to pay less. The answer depends on how long the street is and how much I dislike the retailer at that end of it. I'd rather pay a higher price than give Wal-Mart any money, for instance; but if I can get the store I'm actually at to price match Wal-Mart, that's a double win for me. I don't think anyone in this thread is seriously suggesting that people go haggling over candy bars and batteries at Target, though. :)

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RecordStoreToughGuy_starcommandseries.com
April 23, 2009 10:21 PM
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@dwasifar: Rest assured, I dispensed my snark on a purely case-by-case basis (which is something that was astonishingly easy to get away with at our store, actually). ^_^

There was one type that, upon expressing their outrage at how much more our CDs were than Wal-Mart would declare that they were going there to buy their new, invariably explicit, rap CD, and treat us like simpletons when we said that they weren't getting that specific version there. I think one even said \"Watch me. I'll bring it back with the receipt and prove you don't know what you're talking about.\"

They would always be back about 45 minutes later, when we'd explain that Wal-mart doesn't carry explicit CDs.

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dragonfire81
April 23, 2009 5:16 PM
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@dwasifar: Just curious, when was the last time you worked a retail or low end service job?

Recordstoretoughguy's attitude is more common than you might realize. Let's say I work at a specialty shop that doesn't price match and you come in and say you saw some product we offer cheaper at Wal-mart, my response would likely be \"Well, unfortunately they can afford to offer lower prices than we can. We try to be as competitive as possible but I can't give you a discount on that.\"

You would fire me for that? Just because my store has no price matching policy and I tell the customer I can't really do much for him?

Or was it the fact, that RSTG verbally told the customer to go to another store?

Unfortunately, RSTG was spot on when he said a lot of low level service people don't paid enough or treated well enough to care as much as they should about customers.

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dwasifar
April 23, 2009 7:13 PM
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@dragonfire81: \"Just curious, when was the last time you worked a retail or low end service job?\"

Not for quite a while. I climbed the ladder out of that kind of position because I took pride in my work even if it was a low-end job.

\"Or was it the fact, that RSTG verbally told the customer to go to another store?\"

Yes, that. I did give suggestions on how he might politely decline to negotiate without driving the customer out of the store. It's not that he held to the policy, it's that he was rude and anti-customer in the process.

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RecordStoreToughGuy_starcommandseries.com
April 23, 2009 6:19 PM
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@dragonfire81: Indeed. Unless retailers start to realize that Customer Service is an asset, not a liability, they will continue to encourage this kind of attitude among the customer-facing employees. These are the people they should be keeping happy, not crapping on. Happy employees = happy, satisfied customers.

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RecordStoreToughGuy_starcommandseries.com
April 23, 2009 3:15 PM
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@lannister80: I wasn't really paid enough to care. Had I had some incentive, like a commission, then I might have, but I was making about eight bucks an hour while going to school, so... *shrug*

The sad thing is, my attitude is probably typical of most retail peons. I can sell the hell out of something with the right motivation, but most retailers won't provide it.

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dwasifar
April 23, 2009 2:33 PM
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I generally do haggle, in situations where I can come up with a plausible reason to ask for a discount. I don't go to Target and haggle on the price of toilet paper, for instance, because that's pointless. But I almost always haggle the price of, say, home repair, or major appliances, or musical instruments, or things I'm buying more than one or two of, or hotel accommodations of more than a day or two. And anyone who doesn't aggressively haggle when buying a car is just a sap. (I actually like the car buying haggle process.)

Right this minute there's a Tru-Green guy outside doing my lawn treatment; I haggled the price of a season of their service down by about 25% and locked the price in indefinitely, just by comparing prices with their competition. Later today, a piece of network hardware is arriving in the mail, from an ebay seller who agreed to reduce his Buy-It-Now price for me by 20% after I pointed out that the same item was selling in regular auctions for less.

One technique that experienced negotiators will bring to bear when haggling is called \"the kiss.\" Basically it means to ask for some small extra at the very end of the process, ideally something worth more to you than to the seller. For example, if you're buying a guitar, and you've agreed on the price, you might ask the seller to throw in a gig bag, or a few sets of strings. Or when buying a major appliance, you might ask for free delivery or setup once the item's price has already been agreed on. Usually the seller is psychologically committed to the process by that time and won't want to let the sale slip over something small, so they agree and you get the \"kiss.\"

People think haggling and bargaining is gauche. There are times when it is; you don't haggle the price of a restaurant meal, for example. But there are plenty of other times when failing to haggle amounts to leaving money on the table, which is just dumb. It's not hard to get a sense of which is which.

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theczardictates
April 23, 2009 11:36 PM
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@dwasifar: Yep. There's nothing magically \"fair\" about the price that a store decides to put on the sticker on a big ticket item. They didn't determine that price by calculating some \"fair\" return on investment. That price is -- as the economist at the top of the thread pointed out -- simply the price that they think will get them the best tradeoff between profit per unit and number of buyers.

If you can persuade them that you genuinely won't buy at the posted price, but you will buy at some lower price that is still profitable for them, you both win. They sell one more unit at a profit, you get a better deal. This is exactly how markets are supposed to work -- and by being conditioned to think of haggling as being tacky, you're being exploited.

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dwasifar
April 23, 2009 2:42 PM
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@dwasifar: Oh, I forgot the big one: the \"cash discount.\" When dealing with locally owned businesses, you can almost always get a discount for paying in cash (that's cash cash, as in green presidential portraits, not a check). The reason cash is attractive to a small business should be obvious, but that's their issue, not yours.

To those people who have checked in on this thread with \"in America, the price is the price,\" I have just three words: no it isn't. Not always, anyway. I have decades of experience otherwise to prove it. You just have to know when and how - and who - to ask.

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Megan Squier
April 23, 2009 3:29 PM
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@dwasifar: My thoughts exactly! Small used car lots LOVE cash buyers. I've been calling around to many looking for a used Chevy S-10 and when I say that I'm a cash buyer they get very excited.

The price isn't the price. Independent stores and vehicle salesmen EXPECT you to negotiate. How do you think Donald Trump got rich?

I'll admit that I did pay asking for my house (with the seller covering closing costs) but that was because the house had been reduced by $30,000 already because the seller's druggie soon to be ex-husband had already scared off 2 previous potential buyers who had put offers on the place at a higher price. He tried to scare me but it didn't work because I wouldn't buy into his empty threats. I jumped in at the bottom and bought a house with a market value of $140,000 (after a little work my husband and I did ourselves) for $105,000.

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shepd
April 23, 2009 2:34 PM
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Pointless. Since business in North America expects the price on the label to be what they get paid, they price accordingly.

Example: In Walmart, jeans are $20. If there is a problem with them you might haggle Walmart down on the price, but not for any other reason.

In China, the same jeans will be $40 - $60. You will then haggle the merchant down to $20 if you're Asian. If you're the wrong kind of Asian, $30. If you're white, $40.

Is this what you want in North America? Replace \"Asian\" with white, and \"white\" with black/hispanic.

No thank you. I like that me, or any of my cubemates, or anyone else from my building can walk into the same store and pay the same price for anything. Gives me those warm fuzzies.

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RecordStoreToughGuy_starcommandseries.com
April 23, 2009 2:34 PM
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No, no, and no. Do not do these things. You will only piss off some retail slave that likely has no authority to alter prices. When I worked retail, I let hagglers walk all the time. You know why? It was retail, not some Marrakesh market. The price is the price, take it or leave it. I get paid either way, and certainly not enough to care that I just lost a multi-million dollar a year company maybe five or six dollars of profit, because someone else would come along and buy it at our asking price. My job was to make you spend more money, not less just to make a sale.

If you don't have the money to pay full price, then either downgrade or go without. Unless you're buying a car. In that case, it's expected, so knock yourself out.

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JulesNoctambule
April 23, 2009 2:36 PM
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'People do this in foreign countries all the time'

I always hear people say this when haggling comes up. Maybe being specific would help, since in the foreign country where I used to live, haggling was for the street markets and not places like department stores.

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snowburnt
April 23, 2009 3:15 PM
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@JulesNoctambule: The way I see it haggling in general encourages business to charge too much initially, knowing full well they will bring down the price during a haggle.

I can see it happening for art, services, home made items, basically things that you don't buy retail or things that it's hard to put a price on.

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madanthony
April 23, 2009 5:30 PM
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@snowburnt:

I sell at flea markets/swap meets occasionally, where most buyers haggle. So I usually come up with what I want to get for an item, then price it about 25% higher.

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snowburnt
April 23, 2009 3:16 PM
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@snowburnt: also, that's a reason why it's common \"in foreign countries\". We don't have many home made things that you'd think to negotiate over.

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JulesNoctambule
April 23, 2009 4:22 PM
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@snowburnt: Again, I used to live in what most posters here would call 'a foreign country'. We did not haggle in places other than street markets, which tended to deal in raw goods, bulk imported goods or secondhand goods. They rarely offered anything like handmade art, and as an artist myself I certainly would not demean someone's handmade goods by offering a cheaper price for their creation. The very idea offends me.

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Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!)
April 23, 2009 8:41 PM
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@JulesNoctambule: Interesting, most \"professional\" artists offer a 10% courtesy discount just for asking in the US. My MIL is a full-time artist.

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theczardictates
April 23, 2009 11:40 PM
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@Eyebrows McGee (on Twitter: LPetelle): My wife is too. She will discount to sell two pictures instead of one, to sell today instead of next month, to shift something that's been on the wall too long, to take cash instead of credit, to upsell the custom framing... If it increases her total profit, of course she's going to discount.

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RecordStoreToughGuy_starcommandseries.com
April 23, 2009 2:59 PM
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@JulesNoctambule: I'd always point out that they were not in said country when they tried that line on me. I'd also point out that I had no authority to alter the price or LP would start breathing down my neck. Which is something that probably should be pointed out. Even if a manager has the authority to alter a price, if they do it too often, Loss Prevention might start snooping around, and it could cost someone a job.

Just sayin'.

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MostlyHarmless
April 23, 2009 2:40 PM
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I am indian. My mom can haggle like anything i have ever seen. My dad on the other hand couldnt haggle to save his life. I take after my dad.

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ADismalScience
April 23, 2009 2:41 PM
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I find haggling for most items gauche. The reward for haggling isn't worth the inconvenience and embarrassment of asking some 20-year-old to cut me a \"deal\" on a television and save 50 bucks.


I'd much rather spend my time carefully researching WHICH item I buy to prevent browsing or unnecessary spending. In my mind there is far more to be saved by carefully choosing the items you purchase and identifying reasonable sales than one can glean from haggling. The store, to me, should be treated as if nobody works there - I want to show up, pick up the exact item I had selected for purchase, and get the hell out of dodge.

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snowburnt
April 23, 2009 3:19 PM
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@ADismalScience: read dwasifar's first post, don't negotiate for EVERYTHING, pick your battles.

Do you really think it's embarrassing to get a discount? I can see why it would be embarrassing to be rubbing some kid's back trying to get one, but I can't imagine someone walking me around their home bragging about how much or how little they paid for something.

Keep your pride to yourself.

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dwasifar
April 23, 2009 2:45 PM
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@ADismalScience: That kind of research is a good kicking-off point for a little haggling. It makes you more confident in your position and more likely to walk if you don't get your way. A good salesman can tell the difference and will respond accordingly, and you'll get a better deal.

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ADismalScience
April 23, 2009 2:47 PM
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@dwasifar:


Except 99% of the time in this day and age you aren't dealing with a \"salesman.\" You're dealing with a glorified register monkey who has access to a front-loader.

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dwasifar
April 23, 2009 2:55 PM
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@ADismalScience: Wow, I guess that means I have to give back all the money I've saved that way over the years, then, huh? :)

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ADismalScience
April 23, 2009 2:57 PM
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@dwasifar:


You'd really have to quantify it. I used to work at a big-box retailer in home theatre sales years ago. I would contest that it's unlikely you saved very much on typical consumer electronics/appliance purchases. Most of the \"savings\" I gave customers back in the day were bullshit phantom money from coupons they didn't bring in or delivery services that we never really actually charged anyone for.

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SoCalGNX
April 23, 2009 2:44 PM
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A few years back, I bought a leather jacket at a JC Penny store. The leather had a somewhat \"distressed\" look to it by way of style. The clerk got an additional discount for me (about 20%) because there were two scuffs as well. So yes, they can and will discount under the right circumstances.

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PillowTalk
April 23, 2009 5:29 PM
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@SoCalGNX:

Only if the item is damaged are they permitted to do this. Please, people, stop thinking that your average retail associate has the power to just give you discounts!!!

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pecan 3.14159265
April 23, 2009 3:15 PM
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@SoCalGNX: I got 10% off just by asking if there was anything anyone could do about one missing button. It works.

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zibby
April 23, 2009 3:00 PM
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@SoCalGNX: Nice! I hope you got some acid washed jeans to go with that mofo...

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ratsafari
April 23, 2009 2:45 PM
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I must have been the only person ever that when I canceled AOL back in 98 that they did not offer a free month to. I kept waiting for the CSR to offer and no offer ever came.

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Muscato
April 23, 2009 2:46 PM
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Well, I've lived in Japan, Ghana, Egypt, and a number of other African and Middle Eastern countries - and I do haggle, even when I'm back home. Not for the small stuff (although my Arab partner will), but anything of any substance. And it works, albeit far more at small outlets or for (as dwasifar noted above) services.


When it comes to travel - unless you're refugeeing out in the path of a storm or at the same hotel as the city's largest annual convention, anyone who takes the first room the hotel clerk gives you is consenting to be ripped off. Done nicely and with finesse, you can find yourself in fine digs, at no extra cost.

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GuinevereRucker
April 23, 2009 2:49 PM
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I have haggled with online merchants, and I've *always* gotten a better offer for big ticket items. I've saved hundreds of dollars doing this. I just email them something like this (find as many merchants' emails as you can and send it to them all):

Dear Merchants,

I am shopping online for this product:

[www.sitewithproduct.com]

I can buy it at a bunch of different places for about the same price ($xxx) and was wondering if you could sell me one lower than this price. I can't find one used!

I'll go with the lowest bidder, as this is going out to a bunch of different online merchants. Thanks for your time.

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zibby
April 23, 2009 2:51 PM
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The key to successful haggling is not to need anything that you are haggling for. I often get great deals on stuff that happens to catch my eye when I'm out and about, but when the kid's AC breaks during a heat wave I'm going to pay what they're asking and GTFO.

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Outrun1986
April 23, 2009 4:21 PM
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@zibby: Yeah, you want to try and replace stuff before it breaks, if you know something is on its way out. That way you have at least a few days to settle on a product and shop around. This will net you the better value in the long run, even if you don't use your old thing until the day it dies.

Air conditioners are a strange item, you can never seem to get a deal on them. You don't want to buy at the end of the season because it doesn't make sense to leave something you just bought in your closet for 6 months. Especially when next year's models might be more efficient and cheaper, unless you live in a warm climate year round and will be using them constantly. In my climate an air conditioner is necessary but they are only used for 3-5 months of the whole year. There also NEVER seems to be enough of them in stock no matter what so there is often very little to clearance at the end of the season anyways.

I always wonder what people do with the air conditioner they bought last year, its not like it would have broke if you only used it for 3-4 months. I've had the same air conditioner for like 10 years or more and its being used in a super hot upstairs bedroom and it has not broken yet.

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Rectilinear Propagation
April 23, 2009 2:54 PM
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An end-of-season clearance sale is a good time to ask for an additional discount.

Ask for a discount on something already in clearance?
Really?

Is it even possible to do that without sounding like ridiculously cheap jerk?

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dulcinea47
April 23, 2009 3:03 PM
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@Rectilinear Propagation:
My mom did that for a pair of very expensive, good quality, but very ugly running shoes that were already on clearance. Basically she just said, \"Really, do you think anyone's going to buy these for $X? How about knocking off another 10%?\" And he did.

It might be easier to do it w/o sounding like a jerk if you're a nice polite middle aged lady.

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TEW
April 23, 2009 2:55 PM
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I once got the police discount because I asked a all you can eat restaurant if they gave a discount for people staying in a hotel. I don't have much shame so I will always try.

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TexasMama37
April 23, 2009 8:07 PM
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@TEW: My dad always asks about \"senior\" discounts regardless of where he is. The actual age at which places will offer the senior discounts varies but he's never had anyone question his age before. They figure if he considers himself a \"senior\" then it's good enough for him.

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hardtoremember
April 23, 2009 2:58 PM
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I manage a furniture store and people do try to haggle. I by haggle I mean they try to tell me what I am selling it for.

Keep in mind that when you a trying to get a lower price you should ask nicely for it. You should also make a reasonable offer. Otherwise I will gladly sell my well priced item to someone else.

Can I give you $xx.xx? Will get you a lot farther than, \"I'll give you $xx.xx.\"

I am always happy to discount an item if we can but if a person looks like they are going to be more trouble than they are worth I will move on.

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dwasifar
April 23, 2009 3:14 PM
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@hardtoremember: +1 on that. It's absolutely possible, in fact essential, to be pleasant and courteous and still be businesslike when you're making a deal.

Essentially when you ask for a discount, YOU are selling the SALESMAN on why he should do it, and you don't get that by pissing him off.

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dinahcat
April 23, 2009 3:03 PM
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Always, ALWAYS ask for a better deal! In Target last week, my husband asked for a discount on a pair of shoes that were stained. They were the last pair of shoes in that size, and since they were for our nephew to play sports in, who cares if they has stains, right? The cashier had the authority to knock off 10% on the spot! Sure it was $1, but over time, it all adds up!

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Manchego
April 23, 2009 3:04 PM
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I just placed an order last week from a smaller online specialty electronics supply place, it was $119 plus shipping, I called up before I ordered and asked if they had any deals right now, they said no, so I asked if they would pay for shipping they said sure!
Similar thing happened with newegg.com I was looking at a camera and card and but there was not free shipping on it so I contacted their instant message customer service and the person said they would comp my shipping if I ordered that day.
Never hurts to ask.

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TexasMama37
April 23, 2009 8:10 PM
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@Manchego: If I can get free shipping then it was worth asking! I have also e-mailed companies I regularly do business with and asked them if they know when they will be offering a free shipping code.

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Damocles57
April 23, 2009 3:06 PM
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It is amazing that some buyers (the people with money) feel dirty when asking sellers (the people who want money) to accept less of it than what they had originally offered. I don't know of any sellers who feel dirty because they overcharged for something and a buyer paid their price.


In all situations, a product on a shelf is an offer to sell at a specific price at that time. There is nothing to prevent a counter-offer to buy at a different price at that time. It is true that there are some items where haggling will not pay dividends. However, when there is a reasonable chance to save $$, it never hurts to ask. Or, if the seller won't reduce the price they may provide other extras if asked.


The whole industry of sales is devoted to inducing the buyer to part with their money by hook or by crook. People go to college to get degrees in Marketing and Sales, businesses send their employees to seminars to learn how to maximize profits, sales people learn about human psychology to motivate the buyer into completing a transaction.


Marketers and retailers and social pressure in the US have done a great job at training the consumer to feel bad if they cannot affort the asking price. As if a person's self-worth was tied up in the amount of money they can or should spend to prove they are worthy or have worth.


It only seems logical that the consumer take some initiative to learn a little, too. We should not be too ready to salivate on command just because someone else has the ability to ring a bell and produce a desired response.

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WatchOutNow
April 23, 2009 3:10 PM
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There are certain goods & at certain places were haggling is more appropriate. I buy sneakers and I certain mom & pop shops, especially in the 'hood, I get away with saying $20-30 on some stylish kicks.
Open air markets and festival/carnivals are also good places to bargain.

Regardless, the best place to haggle is on the internet. You don't have to talk..just click and type, find the best deal possible. The possibilities can be endless.

my 2Cents

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dwasifar
April 23, 2009 3:12 PM
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Here's a secret: rich people haggle, poor people pay full price. Partly that's an observation on how they each got to that condition (you don't get rich by throwing money away). But partly it's a result of their status as customers.

If you're buying something, and you come across like you buy high-ticket items all the time, you are more likely to be catered to than if you appear to be just trying to scrounge a deal. This doesn't mean that you need to show up wearing flashy clothes and blingy jewelry; it's more about how you carry yourself and how you speak about the deal when you're making it. Confident, matter-of-fact, like someone who has lots of other options. Give me what I want and we have a deal; otherwise, I walk, no hard feelings, just business. And again, cash is king; if you mention you're a cash buyer, you usually get instant respect (unless you're someplace where they make their money from financing, like a car dealer). These things help give you a position of advantage from which to negotiate.

It also helps to develop a relationship with the business. A lot of people here have opined that a business will hate you if you haggle. In my experience, nothing could be further from the truth. The guy who runs the music shop where I'm a regular customer knows that every time I buy something from him it's going to be an extended negotiation. But I pay him in cash, I don't make his life miserable outside the sale, and we've become good friends outside of the business, to the point where he takes me to dinner because I'm one of his best customers - even though there have been times when I've walked away from the deal because we couldn't agree. Haggling doesn't destroy the relationship, it just sets expectations differently.

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Megan Squier
April 23, 2009 3:45 PM
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@dwasifar: Like I said on your profile you are awesome! Donald Trump didn't get rich by paying full price.

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Raziya
April 23, 2009 3:42 PM
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I hate when people try to haggle with me at Best Buy. If you have a legitimate reason, like for example, a girl there yesterday bought a case two years a ago for her subwoofer, and the panel cracked...replaced the case for 15 dollars (it was the same case that had gone on clearance) which then had the same design flaw and cracked again...we looked up the cost of the upgraded one and sold it to her at cost. However, if you are buying a big screen TV and are complaining to me about the cost, why are you buying a big screen TV if you can't afford it? I am sorry but I think haggling is ridiculous, you all feel free to try it, but going into a retailer to argue with them over a price when it's something that's not even necessary for you to being with is dumb. All it does is make your sales rep uncomfortable. If it's a price match our store will do it, even to Amazon depending, but we're not gonna take money off just because your \"daughter is going to cry if she doesn't get this new TV\" (Trust me, I have heard them all...grow up).

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MisterE
April 23, 2009 9:16 PM
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@Raziya:

I just bought a TV from Best Buy the other day and haggled. This was not an open box or a return. I even opened the new TV in the store to ensure the box wasn't full of rocks. I told them the truth: I can get this cheaper somewhere else, do us both a favor and lower the price. Give me a reason to buy the TV from you now and not your competitor. I scored 17% off the sale price of the T.V.

So, you may disagree with haggling, but your manager agreed. In the end, your just another Blue Shirt without a clue.

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humphrmi
April 23, 2009 3:50 PM
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Some other things you absolutely must haggle for:

- Major home repairs / improvements, like refinishing a basement or replacing a roof.

- Cable / Telephone services

- For that matter, just about any recurring service... if you hire someone to spray fertilizer on your lawn, or mow your lawn, or monitor your security system... any type of service.

If you think it's tacky to haggle for these prices, think about this: if you have, say, a TruGreen service spray fertilizer on your lawn and you drop the service, you will shortly begin to receive lots of mail from them, begging you to come back, each one with a lower price or adding more freebies. They will beg you to come back (I speak from experience). What is the difference between agreeing to come back after you've canceled because they offer you a better deal, than just asking for the better deal in the first place?

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ericblair
April 23, 2009 4:11 PM
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I only haggle occasionally, but I've had the best success when there's some issue that can be resolved by lowering the price or adding goodies (like an incomplete serving set with too low a discount, or a device where I'd need to buy a bunch of extras). Like people have said, make sure that the person you're negotiating with has the authority to take a leak, much less knock 20 percent off of a major item.


However, moving to a bargaining type economy doesn't benefit consumers in general because it hides the \"real\" price of goods and hinders competition. Sellers end up with all the real information about what people are ready to pay, and consumers (especially infrequent ones) end up having no idea whether they got the best deal or not.

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MisterE
April 24, 2009 12:47 PM
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@ericblair:

I respectfully disagree with you. If this were 80's, you would have a point. A quick Google search reveals prices, what people are paying and provides other tools consumers use for research. I do agree that if we were a haggling economy, I would feel as if I was buying a used car every day.

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Outrun1986
April 23, 2009 4:11 PM
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I haggle at the appropriate place. I DO NOT try to haggle my grocery bill down at Walmart, it simply would not work and would be a waste of my time, and would irritate the cashier. If I don't like the price, I don't buy it. If I want to lower my grocery bill, I head into the store with a big stack of coupons.

Buying a TV package, yes then its ok to haggle at whatever store you are buying at.

Cable TV/Cellphones/Internet Service - definitely give it a try, the reps are expecting it.

At a yard sale, DEFINITELY haggle, I have found that 99% of the time you can get a discount if you use CIF (cash in fist). It really does work. If you run into a hard nose person and you don't like the price, just move onto the next sale (unless the item you are buying is really worth it or if there is a large discount off the retail price), there will always be another sale.

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Justin Linett
April 23, 2009 4:18 PM
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why dont you just buy it online if you want it to be cheapest. that saves the online company the money they would normally spend on customer service. I do buy stuff at best buy every now and them. I all it the \"Right Now\" tax. If i want it right freakin now i pay the extra few bucks. If i don't need it that bad , its always cheaper online. Also in other countries starvation and oppression is common so knock yourselves out.

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humphrmi
April 23, 2009 4:31 PM
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@Justin Linett: You don't always get the best deal online. For instance, AT&T might offer a certain deal online for a new line of service with a 2-year contract. You can't change that deal on their webpage. But say you don't want a 2-year contract? So you call up and say (for instance) \"T-Mobile is offering the same deal with only a 1-year commitment.\" In many cases, the rep will try to make a deal (they did in my case.) This is just one example.

Sure, for some items, haggling doesn't make sense. Want a 2GB USB key? OK. Online, if you can wait, or go to best buy and pay $15 to \"have it now\".

But the point is, online prices are not the panacea of the lowest possible price. It's still possible to go lower.

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MonkeyButt
April 23, 2009 4:25 PM
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I've haggled once- on a garden cart at Home Depot that was not in mint condition (floor model), the manager knocked off 20%.

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thrashanddestroy
April 23, 2009 4:29 PM
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The one tip you might want to add is to haggle where its acceptable. If you're told that corporate policy doesn't allow bartering, don't be a dick about it. Otherwise you're fostering a relationship with the salesperson/store wherein they wont want to help or serve you in the future.

Believe me, we in sales remember faces.

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TEW
April 23, 2009 4:57 PM
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@thrashanddestroy:
I don't think you will turn down a sale if I tried to haggle with you last time. I have gotten larger drink sizes at fast food places because they did not have what I ordered. I just had to ask the manager. I have saved %15 from an all you can eat buffet with the police discount because I asked the manager if there were any discounts for hotel users. I could buy stocks or a tenth of most rents around me with the $100

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thrashanddestroy
April 23, 2009 4:34 PM
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@thrashanddestroy: Something else I'd like to add; say you walked into a five star restaurant, no entree on the menu under $50. Would any of you sit there and haggle for ten dollars off your New York strip steak and potato?

Sounds ridiculous to me. Personally, I find haggling degrading and gaudy. If you can't afford it, don't buy it. If an extra $50-100 is going to break the bank, rethink your priorities.

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MisterE
April 24, 2009 12:50 PM
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@thrashanddestroy:

I wouldn't haggle, but I would still ask for a military, Triple a discount, or in Ohio - The Golden Buckeye Card discount.

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humphrmi
April 23, 2009 4:57 PM
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@thrashanddestroy: So say you can afford the $50-$100 for a nice strip and potato. Great. You haggle down $40, now you can *also* afford a couple extra beers, or to pick up a movie on the way home.

Granted, I too would feel uncomfortable haggling for prices at a restaurant, especially one that I frequent. But as the article said, \"In these tough economic times...\" I wouldn't be surprised that it works.

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chrisexv6
April 23, 2009 4:29 PM
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I just buy online. Chances are that will be the best price I aim for when haggling anyway, except I dont have to feel like a \"douse\" while doing it.

Sure, Amazon Prime gets it to me in 2 days instead of instantly, but then I also didnt have to leave my house and walk into horrid b&m stores.

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kwsventures
April 23, 2009 5:06 PM
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How badly do you need the item? If the item is not necessary, haggle like crazy. The salesperson comes up to me asks me if \"he can help.\" Yes, I like this item but I can't afford this price. Get the haggle going. See what happens. Worst case, you pay retail or just walk.

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MoreFunThanToast
April 23, 2009 5:17 PM
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I'm all for getting my goods with a better price but enjoys a life where I'm not required to haggle for every little thing I buy.

I went to China last summer and my cousin wanted to buy a Wii...we spent 3 hours in the freaking store so her parents can haggle a better deal on a grey market Wii...

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HIV 2 Elway
April 23, 2009 5:17 PM
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@litrock: Do you stray away from all price related negotiations? Do you feel dirty asking for promotions or raises?

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INsano
April 23, 2009 5:22 PM
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I honestly cannot believe that the picture for this thread didn't have Eric Idle and Graham Chapman discussing the price of a gourd.

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PillowTalk
April 23, 2009 5:40 PM
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Argh, this article makes me nervous. Having worked in retail, have friends who still do, and having been active on some retail worker's forums on-line, one of the chief complaints are people who try to haggle. The average clerk doesn't have the power to just grant discounts (and might be fired or penalized if they do so), and so continuing to insist holds things up. Most items are set at a price and can't be negotiated - of course bigger ticket items can be picked apart, but your local grocery store is not a car dealership. It never hurts to ask once, but drop it if it can't be done. You're asking someone to risk their job just because you think you deserve a discount for existing - it's a sense of intense entitlement, which is a bit of a problem in American consumers. We're known the world around as the brattiest consumers in stores - google for stories that people in other countries have about American customers. We're the worst.

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Damocles57
April 23, 2009 6:42 PM
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@PillowTalk:
I don't see any issue with the customer taking a more responsible role in the transfer of money for goods/services. I can't feel sad for the poor sales people who spend hours learning how to manipulate the customer, who get bonuses/awards for the biggest sales, who misrepresent or lie about features or warranties, and then complain that the customer is being a dick because they want to get the best deal they can.


I hope more retailers/sales people are forced to respond to articles like this and the people who use the information to get the most value for themselves at the least cost.

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PillowTalk
April 23, 2009 5:44 PM
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@PillowTalk:

Forgot to mention that most people come in asking for a discount because they read articles just like this one, and when you have to inevitably decline they throw a hissy-fit and say \"I read it on-line/heard from Oprah! I know you can!\" etc. That's why this article is perhaps going to create more of a problem than solve anything...

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RecordStoreToughGuy_starcommandseries.com
April 23, 2009 6:36 PM
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@PillowTalk: Ah yes. The \"but the neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeews said you haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaave to!\" argument. These kinds of articles do indeed cause more problems for the retail peon than is fair. They already have to deal with the myriad other Sucky Customers; please don't add to the problem, news media.

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Ixnayer
April 23, 2009 5:46 PM
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I used to work at both Advance Auto Parts and Autozone and if a customer was nice and they asked for a discount then we would usually give 10% off. However if someone was rude, didn't know anything about their vehicle (everyone should know what size engine they have) or tried to talk on their phone at the same time you were trying to talk to them, hell no. Also anyone who asked how many quarts were in a gallon didn't get a discount either and you would be surprised how many people don't know how many quarts are in a gallon.

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howie_in_az
April 23, 2009 5:48 PM
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I've begun haggling over everything. I think I learned it from my mother, but I used to be horribly opposed to it. Now I realize that it's my money and it's only costing me more if I don't, so why not ask for a discount? I got $1,000 taken off of our backyard by simply asking \"what do we have to do to get this price lower?\" Same service, same materials, but I got to keep a grand. Likewise with a caterer -- I just asked \"is there any way to get this price lower?\" and poof, they took off $500.

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Anonymous
April 23, 2009 7:13 PM
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If you walk into a RETAIL store, for the love of jeebus, don't \"haggle\" retail is priced that way for a reason. Sure there maybe a few hidden gems of discounts here and there but for the most part the sales that are advertised are the best deals going at the time.

I've been in electronics retail for 10ish years now and currently I run the SonyStyle store in Portland. I'm offended by people who think I'm here to rip people off. If youre going to place that has salesmen like that then it's your own fault. For the most part retail monkeys are not that way because as pointed out they aren't paid enough to care. Also if you ask I'm less inclined to actually do anything for you because youre expecting a discount but if I do it's usually sales I doctor up to make look and sound better. But I'm gonna roll in a warranty or service because that makes my store more money and covers the margin hit I take from discounting.

I'm so sick of the \"on this economy\" BS. If your shopping for a big ticket item then \"this economy\" really isn't effecting you much.

If you wanna \"haggle\" then go to a second hand store or a open air market. The retail enviroment is not for you. Top it all off most products now days is set by the brand not the reseller. Case in point Sony's SURE program.

All in all for the most part haggling (price matching is not haggling IMO) in a retail store is totally pointless. You may think your getting a good deal but really your getting the same deal as whats normally advertised.

Okay this is already to long and probably incoherent seeing as I'm typing this and trying to run a sales floor.

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catastrophegirl chooses not to fly
April 23, 2009 7:26 PM
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once upon a time i found a prefectly good but scratched up futon frame on the side of the road and took it home to my equally broke two roommates who were also sick of sitting on milk crates. we came up with a price we could spend on a futon mattress
i worked for walt disney world and there were several retailers who offered disney employee discounts. i went to a futon retailer who offered a discount, got their 10% off prices [the amount of the disney discount] in writing on their business card. still higher than we wanted to pay.
went to a different retailer who had slightly lower prices than the previous retailer and showed them the discount. he offered me 10% off to buy from him. then i asked if he had anything 'ugly.'.... he had a futon that had come unwrapped during shipping and bumped the truck tire during unloading so it had a big black smudge on it. [we planned to throw a sheet over it anyway]

then i said the truly magic words: 'so how much would that be, and i can go get the cash out of my car'

his eyes lit up... and he said \"cash? are you going to need a receipt?\"
since it was a mattress, not electronics or something with moving parts.... i said i didn't need a receipt.

i got a $160 super thick ultra padded futon mattress for $100 even.
it's pretty apparent that he was planning to mark it off as damaged merchandise and destroy it anyway and sold it to me for $100 pure pocketable profit. worked for us.

also, once i find a really reliable mechanic i start paying in cash. it usually saves me quite a bit. once i even had a mechanic with 5 kids who would barter labor costs for disney tickets, which i got free as an employee. and he often would give me used but serviceable parts for my old camry that he had pulled from salvage cars. $20 fuse for free if i stopped by to pick it up and installed it myself [it's a FUSE... dead easy] and i got a couple more years out of it.

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MelanieArsinoe
April 23, 2009 7:54 PM
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You can haggle most anywhere that isn't your normal retail store, like jewelry stores. I just got $100 off a wedding band because I was paying cash and all I had to do is tell them I was going to pay in full that day, but only if they gave me the price I wanted. Of course it wouldn't have worked if I wanted to finance.

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dwasifar
April 23, 2009 8:12 PM
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@MelanieArsinoe: Yes, jewelry is another of those areas where the markups are huge and the potential for haggling is there. At a jewelry store you should start at 40% of the tag price.

Re financing: I haven't bought jewelry in a while, but it looks like most of the stores are offering their own captive financing now, and under those conditions the sale may be more lucrative for them if you DO finance. Kind of like buying a car. It turns the cash-is-king rule on its head when the seller stands to make extra profit on financing. Usually when I buy a car I will let the dealer think I'm financing with them. Sometimes I will actually take the financing and then pay off the note in a few months; helps my FICO.

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Anonymous
April 23, 2009 8:25 PM
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Please: only do this to the big guys. As a small business owner (2 small businesses, in fact), I'm insulted and worn down by bargain-hunters. My prices are as low as they can be, and I pay myself just enough for me to get by on. Asking me for lower prices is the same as telling me I'm overcharging.

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Corporate-Shill
April 23, 2009 9:20 PM
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Know that the posted price for a big ticket item can be brought down. This is especially the case now, in these difficult times.


Wrong.


Published price is what I pay. You got one chance to get me. Better make it a good one, because I will walk, run, drive, fly to the lowest published price.

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Anonymous
April 23, 2009 9:24 PM
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Back in 1993 we had a German exchange student living with us. He worked into a shoe store to by some Chucks. He asked the sales clerk \"Are these shoes on sale?\" When the clerk replied they weren't, my friend said \"Let's pretend they are.\" He got 25% knocked off the price of the shoes. My mouth dropped open. I'd never heard of bargaining before, but I began to apply it. At independent music stores, I always got a buck off every CD I buy, appliances, whatever. I'm really surprised at the number of comments from people who would never dream of doing this. Once you get in the habit, it's not a big deal. It's not like every transation is like haggling for a car. It doesn't take much time (a 20 second conversation) and you save money. No it won't work at a lot of big conglomerates, and you will run into the people who don't care or don't get it. So just go to someone else in the store.

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Corporate-Shill
April 23, 2009 9:39 PM
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As the saying goes, the worst thing that could happen is that they say \"no\"


Actually the worse thing the merchant can say is


\"take your business somewhere else\".


I like to tell people to go somewhere else.

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dwasifar
April 23, 2009 9:47 PM
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@Corporate-Shill: How is that the worst thing the merchant can say? Unless you mean, bad for the merchant, which it more than likely is.

It's rude, of course, as I was saying in the recordstoreguy thread, but it doesn't hurt the customer at all. If the merchant overreacts to a perfectly ordinary question like \"can I get it for less,\" in a way it actually does the customer a favor; it lets them know up front that the merchant is an asshole, which is better to find out before you spend your money.

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militarydave
April 23, 2009 9:54 PM
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instead of trying to \"look cool\" in asking for a discount and telling the sales rep/clerk/cashier your short on your dough... you have a few options: get a raise, frequent a casino, or join the military!


having an Active Duty Military ID Card really helps. here's where i've gotten discounts at:


Apple Store: 15% off/10% Student Discount
Home Depot: 10% off
Autozone: 10% off, 30% 4th of July weekend
Lowes: 10% off, 20%off Veteran's day weekend
Discount Tire/America's Tire Co: 15% off military
Disney Store: 10% off
Foot Locker/Ladies Foot Locker/Kids Foot Locker: 10% off
Verizon Wireless: 8%off total bill (excluding taxes/govt. fees)
General Motors: GM Military Discount
AMC/Cinemark/Regal cinemas: $3 off regular admission


and a ton of freebees: like autoshows (LA Autoshow, Dallas, Autoshow, etc) free admission, SeaWorld: free admission, etc.


Of course, we bust our balls doing 2 tours in Iraq so gas can drop below 2 bucks, so really, 10-20% aint sh!t to all of those who've lost their lives overseas!


by the way... I know it makes no difference, but i voted for clinton! hahaha!


-dave

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Anonymous
April 23, 2009 10:00 PM
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I recently went to this awesome store called Spectrum India in Providence, and there were signs all over the store encouraging us to haggle (\"If you do not like this price, we can talk!\"). So many that I felt if I DIDN'T haggle it would be rude. It was great, as a got a fantastic evening dress and cute brooch for only about $25

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Katie Scott
April 24, 2009 3:41 AM
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I'm still being a pest about this by asking, but do you know if Miku has posted the foam photos yet? I want my little tag for one with me and Vikram! Yeah, I'm annoying, I know

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Sherlock Homo
April 24, 2009 4:49 AM
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I do in Nogales, lol.

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Anonymous
April 24, 2009 12:45 PM
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I totally have the power to discount anything in my store (BBY) but I won't touch a big ticket item unless it's a price match. If you want to haggle, to it on accessories where we actually make enough money to discount something. You want a new TV with an HDMI cable? I sure can mark it down to $15 or so but I won't take another $50 off the TV \"just 'cause.\"

I'd prefer to reward an intelligent customer who did their homework and has brought me a price match than to reward a cheapass who forgot to add tax in their head before they walked into the store. I guess that's just how I look at it though.

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Anonymous
April 26, 2009 3:10 PM
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If you know, either from going store-to-store or from shopping online, that best buy is charging $300 more for a flatscreen TV than wal*mart, buy the TV from wal*mart! Why are you haggling with the people at best buy, wasting their time, your time, and other customers' time, when you can go to wal*mart and get what you want and get it a lot quicker and with a lot less embarassment all around? I don't get you people.

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