Unions need to mass market their message more just like businesses have marketed the "unions are stupid" message since business seeks to pay the least amount of money for the most amount of work right down to slave wage level...

I called Dodge about this and was told that my extended warranty is no good and the powertrain warranty is also no longer any good. I can bring the paperwork back to the dealer for a refund of what's left (2 years) but they'll deduct a $75 cancellation fee to start.

I know others have told me to sell the car, but right now, I can't afford to. My husband's car is 11 years old and the plan was to buy him a new car now and mine becomes the "junker" of the family, though with 50k on it and it's still in great condition (knocking on wood) I can't really call it a junker.

thank god for the unions, because we know that companies cannot survive and workers cannot prosper without unions...

unions save the lazy and the stupid...the smart will excel on their own.

I'm a Honda of America worker and what disturbs me most about this is the fact that my company -- a company that's been in this country for 30 years -- is now put in a position of competing not only against the Detroit Three, but also the United States government now that the US is essentially a stakeholder in GM and Chrysler. I worry that this is going to affect future legislation in regard to penalizing any non-Detroit Three auto company, whether it be Honda, Toyota, BMW, VW, or any of the foreign companies that have operations here in the US. The US government already skews much automotive legislation in favor of the GM, Chrysler, and Ford (CAFE is a good example of that), now I fear that there will be a stronger push to do so -- after all, what would be their motivation? The government's going to want to make it as easy as possible to get their money back and helping their "competitors" isn't going to help meet that end.

http://www.metronews.ca/toronto/canada/article/221520--chrysler-c-3-8b-investment-not-ideal-but-best-way-to-keep-jobs-harper-says

No?

Then shut up.

Yes I know this is not new news but really? Does anyone think Fiat is the white knight that will shoe Chrysler the path to making good and profitable cars? My wife has had two Fiat Spyders and while they were fun at the time, they were clearly not high quality cars. Not to worry, they have gotten worse since then.

Maybe when this relationship fails the Edsel Company can bail them both out.

Great parades with beefy guys wearing colorful armbands? What else?

@ARP: Unfortunately, the "Nazi" party was properly named the "National Socialist" party in Germany. I doubt that is what the OP meant to portray when he said it, but it was poor wording.

Both, actually.

I can't speak with any authority whatsoever on the UAW, but I would think that, without strong internal vigilance, it is possible for them to have metastasized into an organization seeking the organization's good over the members' good. Whether or not that's the case, I don't have the research to say.

Listen to Limbaugh, Hannity, Savage, O'Reilly, or Beck?

I love you guys, you're as entertaining as Marxists. OMG OMG OMG ZEE SOCIALISTS! OMG OMG OMG ZEE FASCISTS!

You guys don't even know what you're talking about. Now when you get all growed up and actually read up on what you're speaking, us older folk that actually fought the real Commies will take you seriously. Until then, you're just making conservatives look bad. STFU and go learn something.

I don't know why Republicans have cultivated this culture of ignorance. This is only detrimental, in the long run, as decisions based on gut reactions are often wholly incorrect.

@Shane Elliott: You've been watching too much Beck. Nazi's are not the same as socialists. They're nearly the opposite. One of the first groups Hitler jailed were Socialists and Communists. Facists historically were ultra-nationalists (e.g. you're either with us or against us, you must support the president or you want the terrorsists to win and hate the troops), and unltra-corporatists. Meaning, they would develop close relationships with large corporations and let them do what they wanted. Which modern party does that sound like?

PS- "I hate Illinois Nazi's" is from the Blues Brothers. Classic line.

People act like Detroit started making crappy cars back in the late 70's forward. I'm sorry to burst your f*ckin' bubble, but the big 3 were making sh*tty cars in the 50's.

@Shane Elliott: It would be an interesting study. Would they push hard for really high wages for their workers, would they kill models that aren't making money, etc. if it was THEIR money at stake?

Honestly, too many people have bought into the Corporatist "CEO's create wealth" bullsh*t. Yeah, maybe 1% do. Google, MS, et al.

VERY few CEO's really create anything. I've dealt with these nozzles day in and out on a contract basis, and most of them are good at looking good and saying a LOT of nothing.

@dave_coder: Uh, they made huge concessions to help avoid this.

Please send me the articles about how senior leadership made big concessions in their salary.

Honestly: Why the f*ck should the unions ever back down if they have even an inkling that a majority of the paycut will end up in the pocket of the executives?

Mouse: "Cats must be allowed to range where they like and we demand that collars with bells be outlawed. It's against the natural order of things. How else will the craven song bird population learn important survival skills that benefit them in the long run?"

Tweety: "But that's insane. Cats already have stealth, claws, fangs and lighting fast reflexes. They've banded together in hunting packs. We must organize too. And, besides, birds aren't the only thing cats eat, grain-breath.

Mouse: "Nonsense. Overruled. Cats r-u-l-e, birds da f-o-o-l!"

Cat: "Heh. Heh. Heh. Now I'm hungry."

When you take your car in for that "recall" the dealership will say what recall? theres no recall. Get off our property, oil changes will be handled via FOOD STAMPS. And any service work you need will be in the form of a vehicle exchange congrats you now get a tank.

We should all be able to find a good job with decent pay, benefits, and pension. Just because it's unheard of these days for most people doesn't mean auto workers are evil for having it.

I think the best thing you should do is sell your car. If it was anything like my Grand Caravan, it is simply a ticking time bomb until the next +$800 repair. Also I don't know what car you have but say you paid $20K for it new, your looking at $4-6K at CarMax now. That is a good down payment on a Honda say.

Finally when I got the extended warranty after a lot of haggling the dealership would no longer agree to lower price, so I got them to throw in oil changes, tire rotaions, and a cleaning/detailing certificate. The dealership was out of business in less than a month. The new dealership would not honor the old ones papers. That ruffled my feathers at the time, but again I came so much ahead on the repairs of that turd of a car that I like to look at the bright side and not care anymore.

One more note on pay, I worked as a junior year 1 electrician's apprentice (actually, for the first three months I was just an electrician's assistant due to apprenticing laws here) and I was paid $16+ an hour two years ago by a non-union auto parts manufacturer. That was actually the highest anyone I know of that started out as an electrician got paid in their first year, including in union places.

I find it incredibly hard to believe the average wage is $20 an hour at ANY auto plant (union or not) considering this place was considered "cheap" by fellow workers when it comes to pay.

Hmmm, well, I live in an auto town. The average CAW worker makes $35 an hour (from the CAW themselves). The average worker at the local non-unionized Toyota plant makes $33.45 an hour (published), which, considering Cambridge is one of the cheapest urban areas here to live, is pretty damn good and not unfair at all.

The CAW is upset because they aren't getting dues. They actually picket the WORKERS at the Toyota factory to get them to join the union. The workers say, firmly, "no". They like working for an employer that respects them, that they don't have to fight with, and, most importantly, willingly gives them the same benefits and pay that the CAW workers have.

Let me give you some history to prove that unions (not just the CAW) in general just don't know when to give up:

IAW - March 2008
CAW women - February 2005

It goes back before then, because I know there was another push back sometime between 2001-2003, but of course, not a lot of newspaper articles online from that time.

Always rejected, always told to go away, but they won't give up. You would think after the second time they would have figured it out. Now the company hires lawyers to fight union votes, not because it wants to stop a union going in there, but because the unions piss off the *workers* so much.

The conditions aren't bad either, I've known people who worked there, and while it's monotonous as hell (what assembly line work ISN'T?) I have never heard a peep regarding working conditions. Now, my dad worked for a unionized auto plant (and a unionized tire factory before that), and not only is it not in business anymore, but the conditions were ridiculously bad.

I want Slate's Explainer to explain one thing to me: What exactly do auto workers do if robots are putting together doors and such? Do they watch the robots? Maintenance? Or do robots not do anything at all, and they actually piece together cars?

(I'm hoping it's not President Obama, because then you'd be a complete idiot.)

From: [www.aftermarketnews.com]
via the Detriot Free Press, 2007 (apparently)

Toyota Motor Corp. gave workers at its largest U.S. plant bonuses of $6,000 to $8,000, boosting the average pay at the Georgetown, KY, plant to the equivalent of $30 an hour. That compares with a $27 hourly average for UAW workers, most of whom did not receive profit-sharing checks last year. Toyota would not provide a U.S. average, but said its 7,000-worker Georgetown plant is representative of its U.S. operations.

@pecan 3.14159265:

The most recent number I have seen puts the average pay of a domestice UAW worker at $28/hour. Toyota and Nissan workers are paid less, around $20/ hour, I believe. The hourly wage numbers of $70+ per hour include the cost of pensions, health care, etc. I would really find it hard to believe a Toyota worker can pull in $300k per year, but I could be wrong.

No, I kid. His rolling is joined by a large portion of my deceased relatives as well.

We *DIDN'T* prop up this company. You people are stupid sometimes.

@dave_coder:

I will agree with you that the UAW average is WAY too high for the work being done, but others on here won't so be ready...

Oh and don't let anyone tell you the unions did not cause this. If a company cannot cut off bonuses, fire workers, and drop life time cushy benefits and pension options while they are generating no profits, they will fail. These union agreements directly caused this failure. There is a reason management went with bigger engines and more expensive add-ons in these cars. They hoped that a customer would easily pay more for stuff they did not need or for things that should have been standard. After gas spiked, customers were no longer willing to pay extra for that v6, alloy wheels, or better stereo. And it turns out when buying a bare bones 4 cylinder, the foreign companies had the US auto industry beat. Make no mistake, the "bad" management decisions were a result of higher costs due to the union.

That is the very essence of the free market.

question B: without Invoking the red scare and the lessons your pappy taught you in the 50s, what's wrong with socialism?

"I Hate Illinois Nazis"

That said, I love my little Honda. <3

Especially when (like in Canada) the government may get stuck paying pensions. Not to mention the super-bailouts getting handed out currently.

Now where is my anti-abduction helmet?

Seriously, do you even read the news? Or do you just filter out facts so that you can feel justified in your silly, anti-union notions?

[www.cnn.com]

The car companies are in this mess because of mismanagement, not because the people that make their cars want to destroy their employer.

Labor agreements are not null and void in bankruptcy. Which is probably a good thing, since many of the workers would wind up making minimum wage while the executives continued raking in the big bucks.

The first dominoe topples...

This had, and continues to have, disaster written all over it.

Remember to smile widely, Chrysler workers, as you greet your new National Socialist overlords.

And the auto unions still won't budge to lower wages to reasonable levels.

My grandpa rolling in his grave.