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James Burey
April 3, 2009 2:41 PM
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I would delete my account immediately. I wonder what prompted them to send this out. Someone had a bright idea and ran with it without thinking about the implications. The worse part is I'm sure a few will sign-up and it will be viewed as a success.

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Megladon
April 3, 2009 7:43 PM
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@James Burey:


I recently tried to place an order on their website and it said \"creat an account* Optional\" So I'm trying to bypass it, guess what, optional means your making an account if you want to buy books. Hope they didnt miss my 100$ order, amazon sure enjoyed it.

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pecan 3.14159265
April 3, 2009 2:47 PM
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There isn't really any evidence that Steve or Shane (at least not from what Consumerist posted) chose to opt-out of their e-mails, certainly no evidence that either person specifically told Consumerist they did not sign up.

Nothing about that screen cap says to me that Steve \"explicitly opted out of receiving any email communications from them in the future.\"

It says he registered on their website, but did not opt-in for their emails. Most websites send a confirmation e-mail of registration (this is what this is) and will also include information as to their other services, such as opting-in for e-mails. This is hardly a problem.

We don't have any information as to whether Steve or Shane at their respective universities are B&N account holders through their campus bookstore, or whether they are simply being spammed by B&N's campus division because they are students, and everyone gets the e-mail. But it clearly says \"thank you for registering\" which indicates that a student had to have initiated contact to receive a welcome e-mail.

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pecan 3.14159265
April 3, 2009 2:49 PM
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@pecan 3.14159265: Clarification on my part: What I mean to say is that I see that Steve DID opt-out of the e-mails, but this e-mail in particular is clearly a \"welcome\" letter and a confirmation of registration, NOT a random \"check out our deals\" e-mail, which is the kind that he opted-out from.

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tvh2k
April 4, 2009 9:40 PM
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@pecan 3.14159265:
It's not a welcome letter -- I've been registered with RIT B&N for over a year.

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Its The Beer Talking
April 3, 2009 3:41 PM
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@pecan 3.14159265: To echo what spicyarmadillo wrote, this is NOT a \"Welcome to our site!\" email. I received the same thing, and I registered for the site over a year ago.

Also, because I was curious, I checked out the registration page again (because I couldn't remember how it was set up). The page loads with the \"Email me with sales promotions, etc.\" box PRE-CHECKED. Which means that I would have had to physically un-check that box during registration in order to opt out.

I don't know how I could have made my intentions more clear to them.

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I_am_Awesome
April 3, 2009 3:12 PM
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@pecan 3.14159265:
Pretty much; I don't think I've ever seen an e-commerce website that allows you to \"explicitly opt out of receiving any email communications from them in the future.\" They send stuff like order confirmations and communication about your account via e-mail. Without being able to e-mail you, they're going to have a hard time communicating with you.

Opting out of regular mailings does not preclude the occasional one-off mailing that is deemed important enough to be sent to everyone.

This particular e-mail isn't really important and doesn't really warrant a special mailing, but is it that big a deal? If this is the sort of thing that \"makes your blood boil,\" perhaps you have rage issues.

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spicyarmadillo
April 3, 2009 3:26 PM
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@I_am_Awesome:


I got this same e-mail from my law school bookstore. I registered an account with them almost a year ago, so this wasn't a welcome letter. While I don't specifically remember a check box to opt out of e-mails when I registered a year ago, I ALWAYS make sure I check or uncheck the boxes so that I don't receive e-mails when I register for anything.

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LazarusWeb
April 3, 2009 2:56 PM
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wow, this would make my blood boil

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Swervo
April 3, 2009 4:27 PM
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@supercereal: It would make mine too. Sure, it's one simple thing, but when every company you've ever contacted starts doing it, regularly, what makes that not spam? It's like explicitly telling someone not to poke you in the face, but then, about an hour later, they poke you in the face, saying \"I know you told me not to poke you in the face, but I thought maybe you forgot about telling me that and actually wanted me to poke you in the face.\" It's disrespectful, and it puts them in the same league with some of the more prolific spammers who say \"I know they say they don't want these emails, but that's just because they don't realize that they do want them\".

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vladthepaler
April 3, 2009 2:57 PM
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1. Write a note that says: I'm glad to be your customer, but you didn't opt in to letting me throw rocks through your windows.

2. Tie note to a rock.

3. Throw it through B&N's window.

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2 replies
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Skaperen
April 3, 2009 4:47 PM
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@vladthepaler: Why waste a good rock. Find a bank or something.

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Justin Harper
April 3, 2009 3:11 PM
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@vladthepaler: Simply brilliant.

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tgrwillki
April 3, 2009 2:58 PM
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I received this, too, and I go to Clemson, with B&N running our campus bookstore.

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Cindy Cardona
April 3, 2009 2:59 PM
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I got this e-mail too. I registered way back in September, opted out of e-mails, and hadn't gotten one until this little gem popped up in my inbox a week ago. So, it does seem like a random \"check out the things you're missing!\" email

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Skaperen
April 3, 2009 4:46 PM
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@Cindy Cardona: I'm working on a new website project which would involve signing up for accounts. As usual, it would include a confirmation email when signing up that includes a key to verify the email address. I do plan to make one more mailing to some people. If they fail to login (it's sort-of a social site) for some long period (like maybe 2 years), I'd send ONE more email reminding them that their account is about to be deleted in 6 weeks.

I could give people ways to opt-in to other mailings. But since I don't plan to do any mailings other than for account maintenance purpose (such as lost password), why bother. If I change my mind, I'd just add the options in the account settings panel, and make an announcement on the web site itself (like maybe \"Sign up for a weekly digest of offers from hundreds of Nigerian Princes\").

But seriously, email is dead. Today's teens, who will be tomorrow's adults, just don't use email. And lots of Today's adults have quit, too.

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HogwartsAlum
April 3, 2009 6:44 PM
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@Skaperen:

\"But seriously, email is dead.\"

Nooooooo. I don't want to move solely to texting. It's like trying to read a disemvoweled comment!

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floraposte
April 3, 2009 3:02 PM
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@Cindy Cardona: Otherwise known as \"spam.\"

By the way, does anybody have a new URL for spam reporting on the FTC site? The old one doesn't work, and the only complaint form I could find was for the reporting of fraud.

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pecan 3.14159265
April 3, 2009 3:03 PM
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Okay, so now there's confirmation that this ISN'T a welcome e-mail. I would remove my comment previously, but there's no edit button.

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greggen
April 3, 2009 4:56 PM
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@pecan 3.14159265: No edit button, but you can refrain from posting blame the victim posts until you have confirmation that your theories has any merit?

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pecan 3.14159265
April 3, 2009 5:21 PM
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@greggen: I did nothing to blame the victim, I was merely stating that the information given in the original Consumerist post seemed insufficient to conclude one way or another, and there was no statement to clarify that the e-mail in question was NOT a welcome e-mail.

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Its The Beer Talking
April 3, 2009 3:43 PM
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@pecan 3.14159265: Whoops, sorry for taking you to task up above...I didn't scroll down!

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Saiyaman156
April 3, 2009 3:03 PM
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I also got this e-mail. I am at University of Massachusetts at Lowell. I was not pleased when I received an e-mail that I explicitly opted out of. Barnes & Noble did not please me with this.

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Etoiles
April 3, 2009 3:04 PM
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This is becoming reasonably common practice, actually.

It happens once every few weeks that I'll get an e-mail from some company that I've done business with saying, basically, \"We're just e-mailing you to be sure that you wanted to opt-out, 'cause if you were getting our mail you'd be drowning in AWESOME right now.\"

The last couple of these have been wedding-stuff-related, and they're the worst damn bunch of shysters and information-sellers anyway, so I didn't take much notice. (I can't remember most of the specific businesses, because I delete the e-mails on sight and it's been a few weeks.)

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UnnamedUser
April 5, 2009 10:14 PM
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@Etoiles: \"... reasonably common practice ...\" I wonder if B&N knows that I have a practice of adding any vendor that spams me after I have opted out to my \"Permanent Disqualified Vendor List\"? ... And I do exactly that.

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edwardso
April 3, 2009 3:38 PM
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@Etoiles: They really are. I advise any of my friends who are getting married to create a wedding account and delete it after the ceremony. what really annoys me are the catalogs that I keep getting, since I hate to waste so much paper

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Etoiles
April 3, 2009 3:54 PM
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@edwardso: I'm using my old \"real name\" GMail account, but I'm changing my name (and therefore, also my e-mail) after the wedding so it's the same effect. ;)

@pecan 3.14159265: This, exactly. \"Common\" and \"acceptable\" are not synonyms.

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floraposte
April 3, 2009 4:13 PM
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@Etoiles: This is why I often use a nonexistent email. I can figure out what I need to know from credit card bills or information on the site. I've got at least one place where I regret not doing so (that's you, HMV, you unsubscribe-ignoring twits).

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vastrightwing
April 3, 2009 3:11 PM
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@Etoiles: Since it's \"common\" practice, it must be reasonable then.

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pecan 3.14159265
April 3, 2009 3:13 PM
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@vastrightwing: Etoiles wasn't saying that it was acceptable, just that companies were increasing their practice of these e-mails. It's becoming more common but common doesn't equal acceptable.

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pecan 3.14159265
April 3, 2009 3:07 PM
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@Etoiles: I'm still getting e-mails from Modern Bride even though I've opted out twice, and block their e-mails with the Gmail spam filters. Once in a while they sneak by anyway.

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perruptor
April 3, 2009 3:08 PM
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Steve and Sean should send each other email reminding them that they didn't want to get any email from B&N.

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perruptor
April 3, 2009 3:09 PM
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@perruptor: Then they should forward it to Shane.

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vastrightwing
April 3, 2009 3:10 PM
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Hey Consumerist readers! None of you have visited my website and entered your email to register for my hourly emails! You are missing out! Don't forget to register now!

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ekzachtly
April 3, 2009 3:12 PM
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I also received this from my B&N-run bookstore at Northeastern. I mostly just laughed, though- I think B&N bookstores tend to be a little smarmy as a general rule.

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HIV 2 Elway
April 3, 2009 3:14 PM
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Big freaking deal. They're trying to show him the advantages of opting in to their email. Seems like good, invasive marketing to me.

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5 replies
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pecan 3.14159265
April 3, 2009 5:22 PM
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@HIV 2 Elway Resurrected: It is invasive...at the same time, everyone in the world gets these e-mails at some point, and hitting the spam button isn't that hard.

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Rectilinear Propagation
April 3, 2009 4:15 PM
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@HIV 2 Elway Resurrected: Well, it's invasive. I don't think it's good to annoy people you've already told not to contact you though.

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Its The Beer Talking
April 3, 2009 3:45 PM
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@HIV 2 Elway Resurrected: From my view, there are no advantages. If I thought there were, I wouldn't have opted out.

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HIV 2 Elway
April 3, 2009 3:50 PM
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@Its The Beer Talking: What about the \"We're paying %50 for any of the books you own?\"

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Its The Beer Talking
April 3, 2009 4:01 PM
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@HIV 2 Elway Resurrected: Lots of people want to give me money. Did you know how much I could save by refinancing my mortgage? I sure do, because of the 100 pieces of mail sitting in my spam filter.

Note: I do not own a home, nor am I shopping for one.

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bastion72
April 3, 2009 3:18 PM
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I got one from Sierra College in Rocklin, CA as well. Nice of them to remind me. \"oops, you forgot to let us know not to send you emails.\" I think it's the same company running the programs there.

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AlteredBeast
April 3, 2009 3:18 PM
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It's like someone saying \"I'm going to take a nap, don't wake me.\" Then 10 minutes later someone waking them saying \"I know you told me not to wake you, but I wanna make sure you haven't changed your mind.\"

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EmperorOfCanada
April 3, 2009 3:26 PM
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@AlteredBeast: And you just DONT mess with a guy and his naps!

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chrisjames
April 3, 2009 3:21 PM
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Hahaha! The B&N on the Georgia Tech campus, poor guy.

Do you know how much spam I receive from Georgia Tech alone? More than my junk Yahoo accounts receive combined. And even though it's legit, you still can't unsubscribe: they'll forward campus-wide notices from what I guess are student groups, but there are no signatures on the email and no settings in any account I've searched to stop these notices. I get weekly notices from the Alumni Association, and I'm still registered as a student. My department sends everyone the same reminders over and over and over again. Now the campus has this condensed announcement system... except they send announcements every couple days, it seems. Madness! Heh, it's just natural to get it from the Georgia Tech B&N, too.

But this is about Barnes & Noble, not Georgia Tech. I just felt like sharing.

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Rebecca Cutri-Kohart
April 22, 2009 9:41 PM
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@chrisjames: I've got out of Georgia Tech 8 years ago. I receive massive amounts of spam from GT, the national alumni association, the local alumni association. Oh yeah, and don't forget the snail MAIL spam I get too. They have somehow managed to find both my work and home email address and mailing address and spam both of them. This is particularly crazy because I don't think I have ever provided them with any email besides by alumni account..

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Anonymous
April 3, 2009 9:13 PM
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@chrisjames: You can manage most of your Georgia Tech email list subscriptions here: https://lists.gatech.edu

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Skaperen
April 3, 2009 4:33 PM
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@chrisjames: And now you see why so many people have quit using email. Too bad so many others can't.

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I_am_Awesome
April 3, 2009 3:24 PM
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@chrisjames:
They own your school e-mail account, they can send you whatever they want.

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gfonner
April 3, 2009 3:31 PM
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yeah i got this too at university of baltimore...


guess it's a B&N University thing...

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Indyken
April 3, 2009 3:31 PM
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Consumerist, I think you may have missed the boat on this one. From the example you are showing, this email is simply a last ditch effort on behalf of B&N to get the customer to sign up for email after they registered on the B&N site. Perfectly legit practice.

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Ilo
April 3, 2009 3:39 PM
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The other favorite trick of companies like this is to change their opt-in/out options around slightly. (From \"sales\" and \"coupon\" newsletters to \"promotions\" \"events\" and \"bargains\" newsletters for example). They then send a message saying \"Our options have changed. Since we don't know what your preference will with these new options, we have helpfully re-subscribed you to everything\" When you go to opt-out again, it takes 4 to 6 weeks to take effect, and the options magically change again 7 weeks later.

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savdavid
April 3, 2009 3:50 PM
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If you don't opt-in or sign up for emails companies should assume you don't want any emails from them. Common sense.

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Skaperen
April 3, 2009 4:31 PM
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@savdavid: I'm sure their excuse would be that many people forget to sign up. That would, to them, justify this little reminder. You'd be amazed at how many internet first-timers would be willing to sign up for email early on, before they learn just what happens when they do.

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HawkWolf
April 3, 2009 4:07 PM
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we've had users contact us (we = my job) saying, \"why didn't you email us?\" We say, \"You chose not to be contacted at all, even for free product updates.\"

\"Oh but I wanted updates, I just don't want spam!\"

I'm 'just saying'...

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Murph1908
April 3, 2009 4:10 PM
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I believe this violates the Can Spam act. Check your local statutes.

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ecwis
April 3, 2009 8:51 PM
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@Murph1908:The CAN-SPAM Act is a Federal statute. I don't think there are many local statutes regarding spam.

I looked into the language of the law and I'm pretty sure it's only a violation if you unsubscribe through one of the spam emails. So if you opt out when you originally sign up, it seems that they can send you emails until you opt-out via the emails.

Hopefully this isn't true but I think it is... Kinda stupid.

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cbosdell
April 3, 2009 4:19 PM
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I got the same email yesterday from my campus bookstore at York Tech in Rock Hill, SC. It was very annoying but I just deleted it instead of complaining.

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parliboy
April 3, 2009 4:21 PM
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Hypothetical question: when you choose not to opt-in to regular e-mails from a company, how often can they get away with sending you something before you cry foul?

I don't think you can fairly say, \"the very first time\", because really there are some things that are important enough to go out to everyone. If someplace sent you a message, say, once a year, not explicitly trying to sell a product or service, but as a reminder that they were still out there, would you make a stink about it? What about once a quarter? What is the threshold?

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IvanaGabynoodle
April 3, 2009 8:49 PM
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@parliboy: @parliboy: The threshold is that they can email me if they owe me money, or if they are legally required to. \"Owe me money\" means they are going to send me a check, with no obligation on my part. It's not an excuse to try to sell something. \"Legally required\" means that the law says they must contact me about something. The only thing that comes to mind offhand is that companies are required to tell me if they have given away my data without permission, or had it stolen.

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floraposte
April 3, 2009 4:28 PM
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@parliboy: I don't think there are any things that are important enough to go out to everyone via email. Wanting to let me know they're out there certainly isn't enough--tons of places would like me to know they're out there, and they just have to suck it up. If they're closing, I'll find out one way or another.

So I'll most definitely cry foul the first time, and I can't even see why you'd except that. That's my threshold.

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Skaperen
April 3, 2009 4:28 PM
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Email??? I thought that was dead due to 94% of the traffic being spam and viruses.

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jsboehm79
April 3, 2009 4:36 PM
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Yep.

Got the same email from the Florida International University B&N run campus bookstore yesterday myself.

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jasonkarns
April 3, 2009 5:12 PM
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Alright, I'm kinda sick of seeing Consumerist keep posting these. When you opt-out of and email list you SHOULD be notified. What's the first thing a hacker does who gets into your account? They turn off email notifications and change the email address. BOTH of these actions should result in a notice to the previous address. This is for your own good. The USPS has the very same system. If you set your mail to be forwarded to a different address, you first get a verification letter to your old address to ensure someone else isn't messing with your address. I would be upset if any of these types of changes (email opt-out, address change) did NOT initiate an email notice. Think seriously, people.

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Its The Beer Talking
April 3, 2009 5:20 PM
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@posaune: I'm fine with them sending a confirmation of my opt-out status (or any other change made to my account preferences) at the specific moment that it happens. Just not a year after the fact.

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kbrook
April 3, 2009 6:52 PM
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@Its The Beer Talking: Exactly. I got this message today, and I signed up with my college bookstore in... I'd say August to buy my books.

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Herbz
April 3, 2009 5:30 PM
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I also received the same email, which I looked at and promptly said to myself \"WTF?\" and then deleted it.

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TerribleDecade
April 3, 2009 5:41 PM
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I'm surprised that Borders is doing worse off than B&N, even though they give much better discounts than the piddling 10% coupon Barnes always sends out. Is it the relentless spamming that causes B&N to do so well?

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jc364
April 3, 2009 5:48 PM
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The best way to get back at a company for this is the \"Mark as Spam\" button. When enough people hit that button, pretty soon B&N's emails will end up in people's \"junk\" folder.

Eventually the company will figure out what's going on, but not before they lose a significant amount of their advertising sales. And then they will think, \"How can we keep people from hitting 'Mark as spam'?\" And then, some genius will say, \"Hey, lets stop sending out email notices to people that didn't opt in.\"

I have actually seen this before in businesses.

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pauld79
April 3, 2009 6:21 PM
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I got this from the Penn State Bookstore. I ordered something from them. Once. AND I explicitly opted out of e-mails. Therefore, this is spam. I forwarded it to the FTC.

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Karl Kvalvik
April 3, 2009 6:24 PM
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I see this more and more, it really needs to stop.

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Anonymous
April 3, 2009 7:09 PM
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The Rice University Barnes & Noble store sent this out as well. Thanks!

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kgazette
April 3, 2009 7:54 PM
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You can add me to the list - I got this same email from the B&N-run bookstore at RIT. I signed up with an account with them almost two years ago, and now I'm getting this email asking me if I want their spam? Uh, no thanks... I've actually graduated at this point, punks.

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Nytmare
April 3, 2009 8:31 PM
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@pecan 3.14159265: How many spam button pushes for other people would be an acceptable number to you?

/trick question

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joemono
April 3, 2009 9:22 PM
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Local man receives email he didn't ask for while using the internet. Film at 11.

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downhillski1
April 4, 2009 2:46 AM
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I go to RIT and I got the same email from the Barnes and Noble here...and I opted out of their emails. The last email I got from them was a confirmation email telling me that my textbooks were ready to be picked up back in September, then just got this a couple of days ago.

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Anonymous
April 4, 2009 3:21 AM
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Since this is anonymous, I'll comment on that.I work at a B&N and they're pushing us to molest customers with questions like \"would you like to receive e-mails from us?\" \"do you need any gift cards?\" \"are you sure you don't need any gift cards?\" etc etc.It's the damn economy, or at least the media constantly bombarding us with stories of a crashing economy.

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Bill
April 4, 2009 3:14 PM
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Yeah, I got this flotsam too. I've been in a habit of using one-time e-mail addresses for businesses now so that I can track when they pull games like this and kill their ability to do it in the future. I re-unsubscribed, but the next e-mail like this gets a rule in my .procmailrc to forward their mail to /dev/null.

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tvh2k
April 4, 2009 9:38 PM
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Haha I was totally about to email that to the Consumerist--I'm glad someone did. Oh the irony.

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