One of the items that the consumer returned, according to the MobileReads forum, was a Kindle, because he called and asked Amazon CS about making the e-ink darker. The CS rep offered to send him a new Kindle even though he didn't ask for it. I have a feeling that is one of the "high-priced" returns that Amazon used to justify closing his account. In addition, if Amazon has a policy that too many returns = closing an account, shouldn't that be mentioned somewhere? Otherwise they shouldn't make it so easy to return things for any reason.

Meanwhile, the real point is: does Amazon have the right to turn off access to the items you bought and paid for on Kindle, no matter how many cameras you return to Amazon? I think the answer is "no," and I think they reinstated his account because he seemed serious enough to consider legal action. If it came to a court case, the consumer would win.

Box it up, return it to Amazon, issue a chargeback through your CC company for the Kindle and every book/subscription you purchased for it.

Chargeback Reason: Does not work as advertised.

I am enjoying my Kindel and bought one for my father as well. I typically read 6-8 books a month (not much of a TV guy), so the space savings was important for me. Last year I donated 200+ books to the Public Library, and brought over 100 books into my office to let people borrow, keep etc. I simply do not have the room for a collection, the time to keep it organised, or the will to deal with it any longer.

For me, the Kindel makes sense, but I know it is not for everyone.

The idea, however, that Amazon could cut off your Kindel based on non-Kindel related purchases is an oversight they need to correct, and quickly.

@JimK: I will not play Amazon's game. Just like I won't play iTunes game. I will buy my music files from Amazon (since they are DRM free), but I won't be buying ebooks from them. Guess I'll have to settle on buying the actual books.

Or go to a library.

And e-ink may look great and all, but I would never pay that much for it. Especially since I don't even actually own the books I buy, and I can't proudly display them on my bookshelf.

And for those of you bitching about how much a book weighs... get some damned exercise. If carrying a 1 pound book around strains your muscles, then you have way bigger issues then this.

Mine will because I strip the DRM off for archiving. (No, I don't fileshare.) As long as you're good about keeping copies and keeping the file format current, there's no reason you couldn't be reading them in 17 years. They're also easier to find than any of my 17 year old books buried under layers of all the other books on my bookshelves. Personally, old books make me sneeze so I often can't read those for long anyway. I've been getting rid of all but my best beloved.

Google darkreverser.

The real situation here is that you can't buy Kindle ebooks *from Amazon* without an Amazon account. Well, duh.

Netbooks are good for certain things. I know when I travel I appreciate the small size, light weight and decent battery life. (Having used to carry a large 7lb laptop everywhere) For web browsing and email, it works just fine. Also, if you're tech savvy, are willing to invest some time/money, and have a powerful desktop at home, you can really get a lot more out of a netbook. By setting up an OpenVPN server (Not as bad as it sounds - Get a DD-WRT compatible router that can fit the full DD-WRT w/ OpenVPN install) and enabling Wake on LAN and Remote Desktop on your desktop, (Or some other remote control software) you can use your netbook as a thin client and access your powerful home machine from anywhere securely. Plus you don't even need to waste energy leaving your desktop running 24x7. As long as you have internet access you can do anything you could do at home, but from a convenient 2lb device that can go anywhere and last for hours on a charge. That's a pretty sweet deal. (To me, anyways)

If you look at the business model that Amazon has setup, you will see there is another little device that used one very similar called an iPod.
No one here can deny that Apple was pure genius with the iPod/iTunes concept considering they are the number one Music retailer in the US.

And just until recently ALL iTunes content was DRM'ed.
DRM is not the problem here, The guy (or girl) that this is about was flagged for fraud. Period. On a daily basis how many users are flagged for fraud from Amazon? You are taking an isolated incident and blowing it way out of proportion.

If you were running a business your self, no one here is gonna tell me they wouldn't be looking out for the company's best interests/bottom line.

And for the guy who said "2) Look at the cost of most modern mp3 players. You'll happily shell out $250 for an iPod, but not for an eBook reader?" Why are you even assuming they own an iPod? They didn't even say anything ABOUT the iPod.

Are you people all fucking retarded or something

@coan_net:

I think the person returned a bunch of books because they had LGBT themes in them and were offensive to him.

he also demanded the books be listed as "adult content" and removed from searches, but I doubt amazon will do that for him...

too soon?

I'm back in college for now. Textbooks, of course, are ridiculously expensive (as always).

Q: How much longer will it be before universities starting partnering with Amazon on using e-textbooks with a Kindle reader? Kindle is DRM'd already, so making self-deleting "rental" e-texts would be a piece of cake. Of course, the real Q is: Will those hosers actually make such e-texts cost-effective.

Sorry, guess I already knew the answer to that one...

@CRCError1970: Of course bypassing the DRM violates the DMCA which makes you a federal criminal.

What a great and useful law!

@JimK: I agree with most of those points. I've owned mine for a few months, and I think that the major issue many people have is sort of a fallacious "either-or" argument. There is nothing to stop you from buying real books if you own a Kindle! I REALLY doubt that I am going to want to re-read the October 2008 issue of Time magazine in 10 years or the latest Steve Harvey book, so for me, I don't really care about storing the e-books forever. However, if I had a first edition signed edition Thomas Keller cookbook, well, that would be something I'd choose to own in print.

The convenience of Whispernet matters, and I actually find myself reading many more books (and less magazines) because of this convenience.

That is Amazon would not do that without good reason (since a canceled account will make them no more money), so even though the story is tilted to make Amazon look bad - I wonder what the rest of the story is. There has to be more to it that the original person is not saying.

I buy stuff from Amazon when their price is the best, but that doesn't mean I'd want to invest in a long-term relationship with Amazon. Reading this, I clearly don't.

i thought this was made by amazon, not apple.

How many people can still read a file off of a cassette tape used to store data or programs on an Apple II or Commodore 64? How many people still have the software and hardware to read word processing documents stored on 5-1/4" floppy discs or 8" floppy discs?

I love technology, but I also like the idea of things like microfilm, where there's a tiny image of a human-readable page which, worst case, you can take a magnifying glass to and read. Anything else, we risk having a bunch of knowledge that no one can access.

Kindle costs $359. All of the books I saw (just glanced through the list) cost about the same as their paperback counterparts. There is absolutely no way in hell this can possibly become cost-effective.

In addition, you have this DRM nonsense--regardless of how easy it is to circumvent--and you are tied to Amazon's infrastructure. So, say Amazon decides Kindle is no longer profitable and pulls the plug--bye!

I think I will continue to do what I always do: Go down to my local independently-owned bookstore, bullshit with the owner about books for an hour, and go home with some new titles that the bookstore and publisher can never take away from me. You replicate that experience and you make it cost the same, and maybe I'll consider your newfangled gadgetry.

Recently I've had to cancel a number of preorders because Amazon's damn website won't let me combine preorders to take advantage of cheaper shipping.

Its happened a lot lately and its really pissing me off. I just hope they don't close my account over me having to work around a feature that doesn't work.

I think that pi meant that their stranglehold on Kindle books is also part of the plan to recoup development costs on the device, and perhaps the easiest way to keep accounting records of ebook revenues vs. those costs. Though the recent price increases on iTunes do not bode well for the argument that mass consumption of Kindles and its content will actually lower prices ...

The Kindle definitely has its issues, but those I know who are paying for them have told me that the prices for content are pretty reasonable. And you can get a lot of stuff through places like Project Gutenberg, if you know how to get it on there.

I recently got a job as an Assistant Conductor. In addition to getting a fabulous new hat, there's also a good chance that at some stage in my job, I'll be spending a significant amount of time at an away-from-home terminal between jobs. When you have to carry a grip with rulebooks for every railroad you travel (as many as four or five for longer routes), your safety and signaling gear, pajamas and a change of clothes for your overnight at the away from home terminal, a lunch, safety manuals and your cellphone/laptop/PSP/DS, adding to the weight with more books is just not appealing, however great the novel is. The Kindle, however, allows you to bring a bunch of books with you, takes up very little room and has the ability to download a new book if you finish the one you're reading while you're away. I'm not currently in a situation where I'll be spending regular stints at a terminal not at my home, but when the time comes, I'm probably going to get a Kindle or something comparable. I imagine that the Kindle would work great for people traveling with the airline industry, truckers... anyone who loves to read but is in a situation where space is at a premium and/or the weight of your gear is an issue.

1. Whispernet. Buy whatever, whenever (as long as I can get a signal). Really convenient.

2. I'm able to carry literally hundreds if not thousands of titles, just like my iPod carries a ton of music. I never know what I might want but with my Kindle it's all at my fingertips. This is especially useful when traveling.

3. While working out on cardio machines, I can have the kindle turn pages for me. It lays flat, it turns pages and I can change text size at whim. That is the number one way I use mine...to keep my brain entertained while doing cardio. Makes the time fly by.

4. My average cost of a book is about 4 bucks and I don't need massive amounts of storage space. I STILL haven't unpacked all my books from a move I made in 2000. TOO MANY BOOKS.

For some people, e-books make sense. I am one of those people.

All Terms of Service and EULAs since, at least, 15 years ago and probably much longer have allowed for this kind of action. Go ahead, pick up any of your software and read through the EULA, or read the ToS for any of your subscription accounts. I promise you'll find a clause like this in some way or another.

Of course, copyright holder rights and licensee rights are different things, as are service providers' and subscription holders'. These clauses are just the business protecting their own rights, and that's fair, but no matter how much they parade them, they can't infringe on the customers' rights. i.e. the inclusion of this clause does not, by itself, allow this kind of action.

When Amazon makes a Kindle that will withstand being tossed around in a car, will withstand a drop on a hard surface (several times) and enables me to buy a book for a price is significantly less than its paper form, I MIGHT consider one.

I understand the coolness factor of a Kindle and why some people might like them, I don't see how they offer much of a real advantage over a hard copy of the same book (which you can borrow from the library, give to a friend, or resell).

Unbelievable

H prbbly bsd th hll t f th systm nd dsrvd wht h gt. thrs r jst sng ths s sky s fllng, slppry slp rgmnt.

@turkeyspam: Nicely played, sir.

Speaking of Apple, when did they become Microsoft? Terrible support and I can't install a thing on my computer without it trying to install another 10 Apple products on there. Amazing to see how quick that "we're different, end-user first" attitude went out the door once they actually got a taste of profits.

@henwy: You'll notice bohemian was *not* talking about Kindle purchases.

@Barrister76: NO, that's like buying a TV set and having NBC decide they don't want to let you receive their signal OR anyone else's...

I wasn't talking about the price of the Kindle, I can understand that(although I would wait until it becomes cheaper) I was really just talking about the cost of the books, and it looks like if Amazon keeps it a closed system they will always be expensive.

The Kindle would have more utility if I could put other things on it too.

Most of what I use a computer for is based on the internet, which is why a netbook is the perfect secondary computer. It lets me disconnect from my desktop, which is all I really need out of a laptop.

I don't think it's really the Kindle's DRM that's really at issue here. When you buy a kindle, you're also buying Amazon's wireless service Whispernet and you're buying some online storage to store your content on (the Media Library). These two things put together make the content control of DRM look relatively benign.

It's especially a problem that there's no on-going monetary maintenance for either of these two "hidden" services so customers have no leverage when there are service problems that break the physical hardware.

And even 4 returns in 6 months was not enough to trip their alarms since your account wasn't discontinued. Just think about how many returns this guy must've had to get his shut down.

The Kindle isn't that much more advanced. sure, wifi, but I don't think I ever had to spend more than 4-5 mins with my palm in a dock transferring data - even during a full system reinstall. Lets see, am I going to buy a big bulky kindle, with all that DRM crap, or should I go find a used Vx (since my old one gave up the ghost a year or two ago, when it got accidentally washed+tumble-dried) and save a few hundred bucks? No brainer really.

I could protect myself two ways, in theory: I could buy most of my ebooks from other sites, and regardless of where I get them, I could crack every single one as soon as I get it.

I could strip DRM, convert to standard .mobi and then put it on my Kindle. If you have the google, you can learn to do his fairly easily.

Does it suck? HELL yes. However, if I want the device I gotta play Amazon's game. I would, if I were so inclined, have to go out of my way to make sure I can keep what I paid for.

Not saying I do this. Just saying it can be done. Just don't ever share your cracked files and no one but you and your hard drive will know. Unless you stupidly post the information on Consumerist. :)

Let's also revoke the driving licenses of those that have been audited, even if no issues were discovered during the process.

The price is high. E-ink screens are still too expensive. The price will come down over time or there will be some new technology that has the same benefits: daylight readability, easy on the eyes, low power. These are early adopter prices. Still, I find that the free samples save me money as does spending $9.99 on a new release rather than $20+. And, as Chris Walters pointed out, there are tons of FREE books out there. I didn't buy it to save money. I bought it for the convenience and considered it a luxury. It just surprised me by saving me money.

As for the Text to Speech thing, Amazon didn't completely block it. The Author's Guild insisted authors had the right to choose to allow or disallow it on their books. Audio book rights are a separate deal from print or ebook rights. I think they have a point. It seems Amazon also saw that they had a strong case and came to a compromise. I think it would be a bad call on the part of the authors if they do choose to block it. That doesn't mean they shouldn't move to defend their rights now.

Now, I feel like they ought to guarantee your Kindle account will keep working even if they won't let you buy products for shipping off the main site, but I'm guessing they were probably well-justified in closing this guy's regular account.

In other words, if they banned someone for returns... well, the customer probably had some crazy number of returns.

(has anyone had exceptionally good/bad experiences with netbooks?)

To me, that's the #1 reason to own a Kindle. The #2 reason is to get magazine and newspaper subscriptions, because it's faster and more convenient. Lots of people say they *like* the smell/feel/heft of books, but I don't know a lot of people who are as emotionally tied to newspaper or magazine paper. Receiving those digitally is a boon.

#3 is the Amazon store, and it's a distant #3 because of their stupid, stupid DRM policies.

Ehh, you should do a bit of research. Kindle and its other eBook reader cousins are purpose-built for one single role, and most of them fulfill that role amazingly well. Ebook formats are usually very lightweight memory-wise, so 4GB of memory is nothing to scoff at; as for B/W screen, some reading on e-ink technologies might be in order. The screen is intended to display text, and use minimal amounts of power.

Unlike LCD-equipped laptops, netbooks, ultra-lites or whatever, e-book readers are generally very lightweight, their battery endurance is out of this world, their screens provide a low strain, glare-free reading environment nearly matching paper, they do not overheat...

As for the price, 2 points:

1) E-ink technology is still a fairly new one, and consumer cost of e-ink displays is the major factor in the cost of ebook readers (remember impact of cost of LCD screens on early laptops?)

2) Look at the cost of most modern mp3 players. You'll happily shell out $250 for an iPod, but not for an eBook reader?

Besides Amazon's iron fist policy, what happens in 10 years when the battery completely gives up? Or if after 20 years, the display craps out? Sure, I imagine that I'd be ok if I had faithfully stayed on the hardware upgrade treadmill that I'm sure Amazon wants me on. But there's no way I could expect to pack a Kindle away in an attic for 20 years (like my books have been) and still have unfettered access to their contents.

I think the Kindle could have a place if the system was open so that we could get our books from any source.

That's the awesome thing about printed books. Once you purchase it, the publisher can't decide to come to your house and prevent you from reading it or any other book they have printed just because they want to.

Technology is supposed to make reading your books or listening to your music when you want to how you want to easier.

I feel it makes people MORE likely to pirate the products if they fear that "the man" can just unilaterally revoke your licenses.