"Most of the unemployed are sitting back enjoying their unemployment checks and will use them until they run out, and only then look for a job."

The citation required for that would be a study including the numbers of people sitting back collecting benefits without even trying to find a job. Not an article on consumer behavior dating back to 1993.

Your citation fails.

@jumpo64: I would say go find a job, any job to pay the rent even if it's not even remotely related to your degree. I graduated in 2002 from Cornell University with a degree in Electrical Engineering. Know what my first job out of college was? Sales Floor Team Member at Target. I worked there for nine months before I got a job at an ISP. It provided for an excellent perspective, actually taught me quite a bit about work-ethics and is also where I met my wonderful wife.

does nobody remember that it was Bill Clinton that changed how the unemployement numbers were created? he's the one that changed the system to where if you weren't currently drawing unemployement, then you were no longer counted.

It proves you have the skill to (assuming your reference doesn't suck):

- Do what you're told without complaining, even when every single day your job sucks

- Be abused without complaining enough to get fired (when I worked at a gas station, they expected us to come in early to count the inventory, unpaid)

- Keep coming to work, day after day, even if you aren't totally satisfied with your job

- Not show dissatisfaction with the job to customers (even internal jobs have "customers", eg: An industrial electrician's customers are the managers in the other departments that come up with things for him to do).

- Punctuality

- Safety (assuming your dream job requires this)

There's more, but you probably get the picture. Think "soft skills". If you're going into a job where they will teach you what to do, the above covers *all* the bases.

Of course, the above becomes less important if you're applying to be, say, senior manager. But that's not an entry level position.

You see unlike most of the doom and fear mongers, my opinion is based on peer reviewed research and not consumerist posts. Now, where is your peer reviewed evidence? Are you just making it up?

Yes, you are.

16 is Brown University, which is totally out of your league. You are looking at some pointless SUBSET of US News to make yourself feel better instead of the overall rankings.

A college degree doesn't guarantee you a job and never has - you have yet to state your major and its probably something pointless that there is no employer need for.

66% of my jobs I've gotten from referrals.

you can get jobs in this economy...just this year, by wife and I have doubled our income by changing jobs.

Definitely consider that carefully. I'm not saying don't do it, and I'm not saying you should do it full time. It definitely depends on the field. I've been in grad school in the sciences for approx. since the dawn of time, and I've seen friends try to finish with full time jobs and the success rate is VERY low unless they have to have the degree to have the job (some colleges will hire you before you actually submit your PhD on the promise that you will, in which case you had better do so if you wish to keep said job).

If you are highly motivated and can balance your time well, then go for it. Me, I think I'd struggle with keeping myself on task after doing one thing all day, then having to switch gears completely and do something different and still not be done with my work day...

Good luck!

So, I decided experience was much more important. I'm no smarter than most of the people I know, but I've been able to find various jobs in my field over the past few years (including just recently getting hired into a well paying position). I leveraged one of my low-level but related-to-my-field part time jobs into a full time, built up my experience, and kept going from there. Left school without a degree to the moans and laughs of my peers, family, whoever found out. Yet here I am 7 years later, no degree, high paying job, and about 10 years of experience in my field under my belt.

Experience rules in this economy. Not a degree. That hasn't been important for nearly 10 years, from what I've seen. YMMV.

Yes, I read what he said. He said he's applying for "entry level" jobs that require 5 years experience. Those aren't entry level. Those are probably jobs within the field he's looking at, but entry level for such a field. For example, in computers, that can be tech support (but not usually call centre, that's lower on the totem pole).

Even during the WORST economic crisis, a gas station or local fast food joint doesn't really care about experience if you have a winning attitude. If you can find me a pump jockey job that requires 5 years experience, well, I'll eat my post. :)

Get and/or prove the work ethic, and then you'll find that the "5 years" requirement in the other "entry level" jobs will start to be less of an issue. It can be 5 years (or less) of serious "I like working" attitude at *any* job for a lot of those sorts of positions, as long as you have the education to back it up.

if you lie, you can get fired for that (if you're caught)

Folks, seriously, note the operative phrases here:
you can get fired... means you have a job from which you can be fired; and
if you're caught... which is by no means a certainty. Consider all the foolishness that is reported daily on the Consumerist, and determine whether most managers have the brain cells to clack together to catch on.

Hint: from experience, they don't.

Also, there is the little point that omission of information is not neccessarily dishonest. That IS the basis of much of our legal system. Of course, if they ask you point blank "Do you have a bachelor's degree?", you're walking the line.

And thus, flames for poor old tired PencilSharp will start in 3... 2... 1...

Use every bit of what you learn in school to your advantage. Creating networks is a HUGE part of the college experience and allows you to see other opportunities that your current course of study offers you.

Of all of the people from college who I remain in contact with, it is those of us who graduated with 4-5 years of work experience who are rapidly climbing the professional ladder, making close to or over 6 figures, etc. Meanwhile, the schlubs who didn't do anything or just delivered pizzas are still not doing anything or are years behind.

Also, with Vietnamnese, Japanese, and English at full fluency, do yourself a favor and stick with Fortune 500s. They're far more likely to desire multilingual employees than most any small or mid-sized business.

Citation, please? Or are you just making it up?

@iblamehistory: To all of you with degrees that can't find jobs, here's a career path you may not have considered: Move to Asia and teach english. It doesn't matter that you have no teaching experience or that your degree is not even slightly related to teaching or education, 90% of the schools don't care. It doesn't matter that you don't have $1000 to spend on a TESOL certificate, 80% of the schools don't care. It doesn't matter that you're completely broke, 95% of schools will pay your way over there and pay for your accomodation while you're living there. If you have student debt, it is an excellent way to pay it down. I did the ESL thing for a year, my school paid on the low end of average and I could still save $1k per month after all my expenses. I had no teaching experience, no experience with children, and my degree is in Computer Science, I still got a job easily. Sure the first two months were brutally hard as I had no idea what I was doing, but after I got the hang of it the job became surprisingly fun and easy. If you want big money, go to Korea, Taiwan, or Japan (in that order), if you want less money but a much more relaxed experience, go to Thailand, Indonesia, Vietnam or anywhere in SE Asia. Check out www.eslcafe.com for more info; I know it seems like an extreme step, but it can be both fun and lucrative for the right person.

@Eric Le Yu: Remember a lot of large companies only advertise their positions on their internal websites! I found my job at TVA only because I searched every power producer in the country and looked on their private websites. As far as I know the nuclear industry is hiring entry-level positions. They are mainly for engineers, though they like to see degreed people of any stripe in the non-licensed asistant unit operator programs.

If you're having trouble finding a job in the private sector, try the feds. They're still hiring, but you'll probably need to relocate or something. Hell, our agency still needs people, very badly(qualified). Several agencies in the feds are look for people with fluent language skills..so I'm sure you can find something that can fit your bill. Try www.usajobs.gov

Sorry champ, I don't know what list you're looking at but OSU is 19 on US News and World Report for public universities. I don't exactly see the entitlement you speak of but it doesn't much matter. After going through your previous posts it's fairly clear you don't even believe a recession exists, and that the media is "fear mongering". Hey man, whatever you say.

with your degree, have you considered gov't work? or, perhaps peace corps/americorp? their loan forgiveness programs are certainly a bonus & depending on what you want to do in the future, the connections you forge could help. speaking of connections, have you tapped the school's resources & tried your alumni network? that's often very helpful.

if all else fails, perhaps continuing your education is a possibility. i wish i had done that - another 6 mos./1 year at school & i could've supplemented my degree with a B.A. in business & walked into a pretty decent job market.

@Eric Le Yu: That's why i skipping collage all together. Worked my ass off at any job I have gone too and risen up to managemtn levels.

The idea of being in my late 20's with no job experience would send chills down my spine.

Get involved in clubs, buy extra textbooks you aren't required to (and read them), and do hobby projects that you can talk about in an interview.

Do everything extra that interests you... whether it hurts your GPA or not. If it improves your capabilities and has any application to your future career it is much more valuable than your grades.

Anyone who picked up a bachelor's degree (or two) and figured they would stop learning and go to work for a lifetime is going to be in for a real shock. The high tech industries are leaning very heavily to Master's degree and higher educations, constant learning and self-improvement classes, and a real big priority on workers with outside interests and hobbies. You better plan on selling yourself every day, week, month of your career and being prepared to make career changes when necessary.

@Penny Plastic: No I feel the same way. It's a chance at a new begining, a change (hopefully for the better). I've been through it before; went back to school, got a new job that I enjoyed and 27 months later ended up back where I started (I was called back and went back for the money). Now here I am 5 years later and it looks like I'm going to be layed off again.I have to say that I'm a little excited at what the future may hold.

... oh, wait, my field is dying. D: damnit, print! come back!

@christoj879: Yes and it's the same reason I see so many adults in their 20s through 50s out jogging and/or walking dogs at 10:30 a.m. in my brother's suburban Phoenix neighborhood. If people were working, they would be in offices and shops, not on the road.

@shepd: While your advice sounds good, it's something I have been doing already. 3.55 GPA, two strong thesis, striving to take most difficult (yet worthwhile) of classes. I'm kinda regret doing the later only because I know I could bump it up to 3.8GPA, but the classes are worth the extra effort.

I'm still going both high and low in terms of job types, but this situation is really perplexing at the moment.

And what would you say to the college graduates who are out looking for jobs yet cant find them? Out of my 8 closest friends that graduated with me, 1 has a full time job at the moment. We didn't go to some cracker jack school either. We went to Ohio State, one of the best public universities in the nation. Please, enlighten us.

man i am so happy i graduated 2 years ago. it took me a couple months to find a job (and i needed the summer off) but now i have a pretty steady job and get paid decently. its not 100% related to my major but its close enough. With the way student loans are drying up i think i would have had to drop out i couldn't have gone without finaid.

Want to lower unemployment? Encourage companies to hire more part time employees, even at the expense of full time employees. For every 1 job, you can create two. In reality... your just putting twice as many people in financial trouble and not creating any jobs. But the unemployment numbers go down.

Want to increase income? Discourage part time jobs and encourage full time employment. Now the average worker makes more money. Did that really help? Likely not as a significant number of people had multiple jobs and made roughly the same money. Now their income is more consolidated and stable rather than odd jobs for cash.

Remember, "part time" even means 30 minutes a week for $1. Even for a non profit. As long as your paid, it's a job regardless of income. So yes, lots of things count towards taking unemployed off of the index even though they should be counted.

@Eric Le Yu: 2 bachelors degrees? What a waste - thats probably why they don't want to hire you. Not a good sign of decision making capacity.

@Enkael: Typo: Most people who report they are looking for a job but can't find one are lieing (about looking for a job) due to social desiraibility effect. Most of the unemployed are sitting back enjoying their unemployment checks and will use them until they run out, and only then look for a job.

I was laughing so hard at the doom mongering I didn't check my typing before clicking submit.

Its always hilarious how people are desperately seeking to make things worse than they really are in order to justify why they can't find a job.

The unemployment rate is actually lower than the fictional 15.6% people want to believe in to doom monger, because most people who report they want to look for job but want one - please go back to college and study social desirability effect and learn its impact on surveys.

Consumerist is constantly looking for ways to fear monger.

That might not be true for long. My university has drastically cut teaching assistants for next year and it's making it very hard for many departments to recruit new grad students.

I just see a lot of people (not you specifically) say, "well you wouldn't be in this mess if you had X degree," but I turn right around and say, "well even if I had X degree, it still wouldn't make me good at my job, would it?" Degrees can be meaningless if you're bad at your job - look at all the bailout banks and their MBA-holding CEOs.

This is a shockingly common misconception.

SirWired

The job market in my area isn't as bad as it is in some others, but a lot of people are struggling - I was lucky when I graduated two years ago, but it's scary times now. And the college students have it bad as well because they don't necessarily have any professional experience to speak of, they're young enough to not have seen a previous recession, and it's difficult to get a job in your field when people are skittish about hiring and you are entering into a tough economy.

What about people who don't qualify for unemployment benefits (not just those who've "given up" looking for a job) and recent college/high school graduates who have yet to find work of any kind? I think we can probably bump that figure up a few more notches.

I am thrilled he has his PhD in something he loves, but no, I won't listen to him complain about how he isn't paid enough blah blah blah....he works for the CA EPA and I've told him that if it's money he's after, he should go into private industry.

I adore my dad, don't get me wrong, but it's a HUGE pet peeve of mine, people over-educating themselves and then waxing poetic about all the shit they deserve. Especially in my dad's case, as my mom put him through college while working at Safeway.

Education is fantastic, I'd love to go back for a graduate degree someday. But I don't come out of it thinking I deserve some kind of acclaim simply because I have a masters/PhD.

As for 4-year degrees, I personally think they all have the potential to be valuable depending on how they're approached. Yes, not every program is created equal. A computer science degree will afford far different opportunities than a social sciences degree.

The real unemployment rate is easily double what is reported in the media. They also don't account for self-employed people, who are not eligible for unemployment benefits and thus, get lost in the shuffle.

I agree with what others are saying here, at least 20% is the real number.

@turkeyspam: Because it won't be like this forever.

@turkeyspam:

@Penny Plastic: My dad, who has his PhD in chemistry, does this.

You should listen to him. That being said there are some 4 year degrees that are not really very useful, but if you get a degree in Engineering, Accounting, Nursing etc you can be pretty certain that you will be able to get a professional position where you are paid far more and do much more interesting work than you would otherwise.

The tricky thing about advanced education is that people view it as a simple equation. "If I have a BA/S, I am entitled to ZYZ" OR "It will make it easier to attain XYZ."

My dad, who has his PhD in chemistry, does this. Drives me insane.

In my opinion college is a rounding out mechanism, for most people at least. I long for the day when there is far less stigma about not going to a 4-year university and vocational programs are more common. Which, I think is sloooooowly happening.

In the end, look at school as an opportunity to learn. That's really all it is. And, if I can give you any advice, intern and work as much as you can.

@Penny Plastic: I felt the same way when I injured and forced to quit my job. It wasn't easy, but it gave me a much-needed push to pursue a different direction in life.

My husband is in the same position, and he has two interviews this week. After months and months of nothing. One is an usher position at a theater, and another is a dishwashing job. We are just praying that he gets SOMETHING. We don't care what it is (he actually did dishes for a month, less than minimum wage, until someone's friend wanted a job). He'll take ANY job and work the hell out of it because we don't care what it pays; it's a job, and we need it.

I feel like I wasted 4 years of my life in college. It's insulting and embarrassing. I finished high school with flying colors, I never failed a single class in college and graduated in 4 years + one quarter, and I have absolutely nothing in terms of a criminal record. And yet, 5 months along, I have no job, and we're living on food stamps and unable to pay rent. Neither of us will turn down ANY job--hence the less than minimum wage gig that my husband had going on. I'm not stuck up enough to turn something down that is "below me."

I've given up and decided to go back to school. It means tons and tons of debt, because it will ALL have to be paid for by financial aid, but it's getting to be a life or death decision. Mentally, I can't handle being completely useless like I am right now. I have to do something.

Because at other points it's not? If you really think it's useless then quit school.

hey way to steal my thunder from another thread......

[consumerist.com]

but yea this should be something people really talk about. The Great Depression used the U6 way of calculating unemployment.

Why is 15.6% incredible? You can't compare apples to oranges. Based on this set of variables, unemployment was probably 8-10% even back in the booming 90's.

@Eric Le Yu: I orginally graduated in 2001 with an associates degree in Computer Animation (motion graphics mostly some 3D), I found a job at BJ's warehouse unloading 50 footers.

I had a few other jobs then went back to school, I'm still there......and still at this hellish job...

I've been crowing about the U-3 as long as I can remember.

Oh, and this number has risen 65% in the last 13 months (In March 2008, that number was 9.3%). It's frightening, very frightening to be without a job these days...

At least you'll have the satisfaction that you'll be making some of the best Nachos and Cheese that can be had for 99 cents. In the end, isn't job satisfaction what we all really want? I mean that and a fat paycheck.

i graduated in 1987. smack dab in the middle of the 80's me-me-spend-spend-party-party-coke-coke fueled recession. the fun was over by the time i could have my hack at NYC

I would venture to say the figure is more closer to 20% in the nation. And where I live, eastern, rural Arkansas, I'd venture to say it's closer to 30% or more, believe it or not.

But even at 15.6%, that is absolutely incredible. To think you're living in the greatest country in the world and AT LEAST 15% are unemployed...that just blows my mind. Sad, very sad...

Every now and then you'll find a hiring manager who is actually looking for someone with less experience, as they want someone who will have some learning curves, remain engaged, and not spend all their time bored/looking for something else. And, they can pay you less.

So, if you find something that interests you, go for it. Make your case. You never know!

Our generation came too late to the party and now we're stuck cleaning up vomit-soaked carpet. The only consolation is that we're not at retirement age wondering where our money is and if we'll be able to find someone who'll hire a 60-plus year old retiree.

In reality, you need to suck it up and just work. Anywhere. I actually just wrote a piece about recent college grads and job hunting. Yes, you DO have to tailor your resume for each type of job, and yes, you will have better luck getting a retail job without mentioning your degree. It's just the reality.

About the entry level piece....they don't all require that, they're just trying to weed out potential employees. Never let what's listed on a job description deter you from applying.

If all else fails, try to find temp work. It's soul-crushingly boring, but you'll be able to beef up your resume. I worked for 9 months out of college (while waitressing) as a receptionist/admin. While there I talked them into letting me take classes in Excel and Access (why is that so few college grads know Windows? It's amazing....). I rarely used/use those programs, but at least I can say I can. Everything you learn counts for something.

Good luck.

If you find a company that wants people who can get good grades when doing tests, can write a good thesis, and attend lectures well--your bachelor degree will be in high demand.

Otherwise, all it really proves is that you have the above skills, along with a (possibly--for some fields, cheating is rampant, I'm thinking CS here) foundation of knowledge for the subject. Some companies may also believe it proves you enjoy learning, although, from my personal experience, a degree doesn't prove that at all.

When companies are interested in a strong work ethic, you're going to need to work on the experience quotient. Which is tough if entry level jobs are expecting experience. But perhaps you aren't going low enough or trying hard enough? I started my programming career by opening a store on a shoestring budget and later working as a lackey in a computer lab and in call centres. Not to mention pulling cables and being an electrician's assistant as well.

@Eric Le Yu: Yeah, 2 years here since I graduated with a BS and BA from Colorado State, and the longest I was employed after graduating was delivering pizzas. I have been told repeatedly to leave my degrees off of my apps so that I don't appear overqualified. SO much for playing the game, right?

I hope I don't sound like a total asshole, but I am actually feeling positive about potentially being laid off (90% likely at this point, our company is being bought out). I'm tired of being jerked around, I'm tired of my spazzy CEO, I'm tired of my 2 hr/day commute.

At this point, I am riding this ship into the ground. Hopefully I will get a severance. It will be the push I need to move forward in my career.

Sometimes I wonder if I am the only one who feels this way; I think it's just being burned out from waiting to hear what's going to happen.

And, of course, I will be singing a different tune 4 months down the line when I can't get hired at Taco Bell.

It's even scarier how you have to tailor the resume and applications accordance to employers. I get more interviews in retail jobs if I DON'T mention a degree. Yet, being just recently graduated, a lot of "entry" level jobs just seems to require 5 years of experience minimum?!?!