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We'll find out the banks are installing the skimmers to make extra money off of us, since we're in a recession.
We'll find out the banks are installing the skimmers to make extra money off of us, since we're in a recession.
Seriously I was gonna say...
ISN'T IT INCUMBENT UPON BANKS TO PROTECT THEIR EQUIPMENT FROM SKIMMERS???
I mean, they don't just leave a door open all night with an invitation to cut the padlock to the bank's vault! Seems like this is too easy. Perhaps someone should be asking the people at the banks what the deal is, and perhaps ask that they invest in a little security. Maybe put up a poster of what their ATM is SUPPOSED to look like for starts?
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@JGKojak: I would think the banks just figure it's the problem of the dunces that designed the machines and made them vulnerable to this sort of thing. Seems many of the machines have been refreshed over the past few years, and certainly the skimming technology has been on the horizon and popping up here and there. Why is it so easy to do this?
I'm guessing the same Diebold division that designs \"security\" for their voting machines is also in charge of making their ATMs \"skimmer resistant.\" Both seem about as effective.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-439678-100x100.png\")
@PGibbons: The issues with Diebold voting machines had nothing to do with their physical security, it was more of a data concern.
In this case the problem is physical security and how you would make an atm so that people couldn't something onto the card slot.
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@PGibbons:
Diebold ATM and Premier Election Systems are completely different companies, and to be honest Diebold ATMs are quite honestly one of the most secure available. Other quality ATMs are manufactured by NCR and Wincor Nixdorf. Those Titon and Tydell machines in gas stations are complete garbage.
@JGKojak: \"Maybe put up a poster of what their ATM is SUPPOSED to look like for starts?\"
It would be easy to put up your own poster, and then bing!, I got JGKojak's card stripe and PIN.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-812528-100x100.png\")
@el-brazo-onofre: They can include a photo of the ATM as part of their graphics along with warning messages.
@JGKojak:
Why do you think so few banks have been hit by card skimmers? They've been widely regarded as urban legends simply because it's so difficult to actually find one. Most banks have cameras surveying their equipment and specialists who perform routine inspections. It's not like installing a skimmer is a simple task.
@salteater: Not to mention the people that work in the branches. If it is a branch serviced ATM like many are then there is probably someone working on that machine at least once if not several times a day.
I think the reason you don't see more of these is that is is a quick crime. Person A puts a skimmer on an ATM at a busy time of day. Person B - Y use ATM, skimmer collects info. Person Z collects skimmer and gets info on the other 24 people. Repeat at several ATMs throughout the area and collect a lot of info.
I think many people are thinking that the person has to leave the skimmer there for days when that's probably just not the case.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-329214-100x100.png\")
@howie_in_az: Well they just switched to Chase from WaMu, so maybe they don't know what their ATMs are supposed to look like, haha
I worked at a bank for years and one of the things we had to do everyday was get the deposits from the ATM. Seems that if bank employees are balancing these machines everyday (they are), then they should be educated by the banks to spot this tampering.
@MBEmom: We didn't do this at the bank I worked at- Armored security people took care of filling and emptying the ATMs. The employees hardly ever spent time with ATMs at our office, unless we were working with a customer who couldn't figure out how to use one.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-196743-100x100.png\")
@MBEmom: And if the ATM is like the ones I use regularly, the employees access it from behind, inside the bank or via a rear door in the ATM standalone booth in the parking lot, and never go out front to look where they would look at the card slot.
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@scoosdad: Except when they enter and leave the building. It seems like something you could put on the duty of the security person, or just having people aware of the potential.
@scoosdad: Well, for one, I always accessed them from the front, just like anyone else. Second, they are still right there and could easily check for these types of things on a regular basis.
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Any minute now this story will be picked up by the news networks.
@gerrylum: Yeah, where's Chris Hansen? I need to see him staking out ATM's, catching the 'predators' and asking them \"what were you hoping to accomplish here today?\"
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@gerrylum: Which will be a good thing. As consumerist readers we are privy to this information, and are able to protect ourselves from these types of scams. But I don't know one single person who has ever heard of the Consumerist. (Or gizmodo for that matter)
If Brian Williams talks about it though, then you can bet that the word will get out.
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this makes me want to go hunting for skimmers. can we set up a consumerist challenge to see who can find the most?
@wickedpixel: Evidently, the components cost about $300-500, so you might be able to resell them for some decent coin if you're amoral. I wonder how many charges it would take to recoup the cost of setting up the skimmer. Or maybe they're made from stolen legitimate card readers.
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@midwestkel: I would, but I'm also wondering whether the cops would find it sketchy that I was driving up to an ATM just to push buttons and pull on the card slot.
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This is totally whacked out that police and banks don't care about this! If legitimate users of a bank are findings these they shouldn't even be allowed to keep them just based on the fact that SOME customers information may be present on the devices...
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@wildhare11: Um, hate to break it to you but most street level police don't have a clue about information security and crimes.
If a traditional \"give me the money\" bank robbery is in progress they know what to do and have been trained.
If you show up with a skimmer pulled from an ATM the cops don't have the training to understand it is just the same as a pickpocket. The idea is to recognize the skimmer, leave it in place and then call them. Then the patrol man will rip it off himself and allow the criminals to go free versus staking it out.
@econobiker: PLus yourisk getting shot . Say if its a gang related scam and not one person doing it.
If you find one of these please do not keep them. That is just as bad as a scammer getting it back and hacking the card numbers.
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I found new anti-skimming technology at the Chase/WaMu banks here in the SF Bay area:
@TimeDoctor:
Take a look at how small the skimmer is in the OP photos. I bet you could plug that on the end of the card slot you saw.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-113596-100x100.png\")
I've seen some 'Anti-skimming' (Green plastic slots with strange lights on them) devices on WaMu machines-- they looks suspiciously LIKE skimmers, but I assume they're real as they are on all the ATMS. Also, can we ever get some pictures of these things that are actually in focus?
@QuiteSpunky: I think that those are designed to help the customer see the skimmer. you notice in the picture, there is a big piece of masking tape on the scanner.
@QuiteSpunky: Probably not. Unless you just happen to be walking up to an ATM with a camera (or take the damn skimmer home with you first -- likely not a good idea), they're probably taken with cell phones.
So start off with a crappy phone camera, then coat the lens with fingerprints, smudge from your greasy hair, and drippings from the french fries in your pocket. Blurry pictures are pretty much guaranteed then.
@QuiteSpunky: The skimmers themselves have special technology that makes your camera take blurry pictures. It's been proven.
I have a solution for this.
ALL companies that have ANY sort of credit card reader should be REQUIRED to have a picture of what he front of the machine looks like--specifically, the card reader. This picture should be prominently placed on the machine in such a way that it cannot be easily covered.
The picture would show what the card reader SHOULD look like, and say \"if the card reader below does NOT look like this picture, DO NOT USE THE MACHINE! Someone may have attached an unauthorized device,\" etc. etc.
This would solve the problem pretty quickly. Yes, there are probably a few rough edges to this idea that need to be fully thought out, but overall this would help.
@BryantJibsy: Funny thing, they do that out here in China. Well, some banks do. Mainly the ones that are HK-based or have branches in America.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-887698-100x100.png\")
@BryantJibsy:
I've seen some ATMs outside of the USA where the initial screen display is just a list of languages to choose from, and then once you choose your language, before you insert/swipe your card, there's a screen with a huge caption
\"IF THE CARD SLOT DOES NOT RESEMBLE THE PICTURE BELOW, DO NOT INSERT YOUR CARD\"
And on the screen is a picture of what the real card slot should look like. This struck me as the best solution to skimmers, much better than putting up a poster or having the bank stick on their own weird slot-protector protrusion.
My thought is that the skimmer criminals figure more people are now using cash due to the down economy...
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-243649-100x100.png\")
Chase is probably installing them themselves to pay back the govt.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-333123-100x100.png\")
A friend of mine who banks at WaMu in the LA area had $2800 electronically removed from his checking account, leaving him with a negative balance. WaMu took their sweet time (5 days) replacing the money, even though they acknowledged the fraud. I think he was left with overdraft charges and his credit card rate went up because he couldn't make his credit card payment on time. Talking to WaMu customer service was fruitless; he had to stop in at a local branch to plead his case with the bank manager. I think eventually it got straightened out, but this was a read hardship for him. (I urged him at the time to contact Consumerist, but he was able to resolve this without Consumerist's involvement.)
Now I wonder if he wasn't a victim of skimming, and that's how his account was hacked. It says that one of these skimmers was found at a WaMu branch in LA; he works in LA.
This has sure made me aware of the problem of skimmers!
@pwillow1: I had over 3k stolen from my credit union account. Visa actually noticed it before I did and let me know. It was handled quickly and quietly.
@pwillow1: I had my entire checking account withdrawn to the nearest $20 on Christmas Eve. It made coffee, a cake, a movie, and snacks a ***very*** expensive Christmas day. Visa picked up on it before I did. Police seemed to not want to bother with the paperwork since it was a NY/NJ jurisdiction thing.
Thankfully I have parents who loaned me rent for a couple of days while the bank took their sweet-a time returning the funds.
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What if people star breaking machines trying to \"find\" skimmers? What are we supposed to do?
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It's time for your new parent consumerreports.org to get on this.
How do you reduce your risk? It seems that you're rolling the dice when you use a credit card at an ATM. Is a debit card safe? Are you safe is you limit yourself to your ATM card at your own bank's ATM?
This scares the sh*t out of me.
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@JulesWinnfield: This is actually part of why I simply don't use ATMs. Their insecurity scares the shit out of me, and I was unable to find enough reassurance that the card was secure -- from physical theft, from skimming, from PIN theft -- to convince me to use one.
People look at me funny when I say I don't use ATMs, but it's been years* since I used one and it really doesn't create a problem for me.
*I actually do use ATMs overseas; it's often a cheaper conversion, even with the fees, and it's good to know you have access to foreign cash when exchanges and banks might not be open. But I haven't used one in the states since about 2002.
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@Eyebrows McGee (on Twitter: LPetelle): Do you take cash withdrawals from inside the bank through a teller then? What do you do?
@CFinWV: I've used credit cards for almost everything for years now, but generally once every couple months I stop inside the bank (often when I have a small check to deposit anyway -- travel reimbursement, or from the health care flex spending account) and deposit those and withdraw $120 -- $60 for me, $60 for hubby. That lasts us ages.
I have to go more frequently in the summer -- farmer's market is cash-only -- and I have to remember to make a special trip to the bank before we travel so we have cash on hand when we travel. But it's not a big deal.
I do occasionally find myself caught short when I'm at a bar or something that's cash only. But this is why God gave us friends with cash. They know I'm good for it. Also, I blame them for making me go to a cash-only bar. I mean, srsly?
@JulesWinnfield: Educate yourself. Credit card, debit card -- same risk. Limiting yourself to your own bank's ATM isn't going to solve anything unless you're going to limit actual locations and you familiarize yourself with how the card slots are supposed to look like. Read the OP for ideas on how to protect yourself. Jiggle anything attached to the card slot to see if it's loose.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-263779-100x100.png\")
I have not seen this possibility mentioned - perhaps the crooks are taking advantage of the WAMU -> Chase transition and preying on doe-eyed customers that are already seeing all sorts of aesthetic changes at their once-familiar WAMU branches?
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Is there any indication that certain kinds of machine are more vulnerable--say, the swipe ones vs. the card-eating ones?
@floraposte: I'm more wary of the swipes if the swipe reader looks like an attachment instead of a whole piece of plastic, integrated with the main machine.
Its likely that somone found a flaw in the WAMU/Chase system and has passed around info which makes targeting the system more appealing, so there is a surge in placement of the devices.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-236523-100x100.png\")
Not really understanding what I'm looking at in pics #3 and 4?!?!?!
Note to Nick McGlynn: watermarking your photos doesn't make them better, or you more legit.
Jesus christ...won't you PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE put the subject of your photos in proper focus, at the least?
Pic 6 is weird (the one with the mirror)...I see the Chase ATM reflected in the mirror, but where is an ATM right next to a table with wood grain? Presumably this ATM is outside...anybody else notice that?
Not really questioning the legitimacy..just thought that was odd.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-2351-100x100.png\")
Actually, the story at Gizmodo says he was inside the Chase bank at the time. I'd guess this ATM is in the lobby or inside a foyer area.
Skimmer scamming scumbags.
A lot of banks use third party armored carriers like the one I work for for their ATM maintenance and replenishment service. We have received many memos about skimmers. They have been around for a while. I check for any abnormalities every time I service an ATM. Many of the higher quality ATM makers have devices that can preform self diagnostics and take action. An NCR machine I was working on shut itself down because it detected someone trying to tamper with the card reader / card capture. People are always trying to find a better way to scam ATMs, and the better ATM manufacturers are finding better ways to stop it. ATMs with imaging depositors can detect forged bills, and fraudulent deposits.
This problem could be instantly resolved by removing archaic magnetic stripe technology from common use and replacing it with smartcards. The contact pads on smartcards need to be fully inserted into the slot before they can be read, and have the advantage of being able to communicate over an encrypted link.
Satellite TV companies have been doing this since the dawn of time. If the system is compromised, they reissue the cards to each subscriber. The banks don't care since they have nothing to lose - it's just a write off.
They should be running sting ops on these skimmers. Have a cop sit outside the ATM until the guy comes back to get them then bust them. Random people taking them off and bringing them to the police office isn't going to catch the crooks who put them on. Some might suggest the security camera, but if the bad guys have any sense at all they will have some sort of disguise on.
@ogremustcrush:
The cop on stakeout could be in for a long wait.
The most sophisticated skimmers come with built-in GSM, transmitting the card data and PIN pad photos as they are captured. The criminal doesn't need to come back until it's time to replace the battery, or maybe not even then -- There's one that mounts *inside* a pay-at-the-pump gas pump which gets parasitic power from the system it's piggybacked into!
I wonder how often some second crook finds a skimmer on an ATM then takes it to download it's data and use it for themselves. I mean, if you know what you're looking for, they are just attached there.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-264335-100x100.png\")
Walking to work yesterday I was looking at parking meters(downtown Portland, OR) and how they're equipped with card swipers. Talk about a safe place to take your time and set up a card swiper. No cameras, no bank junk, just you and a sidewalk and as much time as you want to pretend you're confused.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-466466-100x100.png\")
Here's a very simple solution to avoid this scam. Stop using ATM's. Instead, go inside the bank to make your withdrawal, and meet your local bank personnel. It will be a novelty to interact with humans, rather than a machine, and you won't be ripped off. Who knows, you could meet Mr. or Ms. Right at the teller window.
I think I'm missing something - don't ATM machines have cameras built in? If you put one of these devices on a machine, wouldn't the camera see the scammer doing it? The bank and the police would at least have a picture of that particular person.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-694580-100x100.png\")
I had my Wamu account info stolen about 1.5 months ago, likely from one of these skimmers here in NYC. It was fucking hell dealing with this dysfunctional bank. It took 3 weeks to get the money back. They told me to call the merchants where fraudulent charges took place, which i did. When one of these companies refunded my money (w/o Wamu's intervention), Wamu treated it like i \"dropped my fraud complaint\" and canceled all the other provisional refunds, again putting my account in the red zone! I am switching banks this weekend, I've had enough of their shit and i refuse to be part of Chase.
maybe with the banks converting from wamu to chase more crooks are getting the time to set these things up.
Thanks for posting those skimming images. I'm sure many people like myself have never seen them before so we wouldn't know what to look for in order to protect ourselves from skimmers.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-131824-100x100.png\")
The best thing to do is to know what you are looking for. I used to work for a large regional bank here on the east coast, and whomever was the second person to enter the bank in the morning (you always open with 2 people for robbery protection) had to walk by the ATM and check for skimmers. Corporate sent out an e-mail with photos and descriptions on what to look for and all. However, many employees got lazy or forgot, so this wasn't always done.
As for going inside to complete a withdrawal ticket, sure that is one way to never get skimmed. However, you are making your life harder, and putting a strain on the banking staff. Branches schedule people based on transaction volume, and people using ATM's are already factored in as not coming inside. I know people will think it is just \"making tellers do their job\" but we all have enough to do, and banks have laid off tons of tellers already. By everyone going inside now, corporate won't let you hire anymore, so you will just be making the already thin staff work even harder.
This was probably already said, but important to say again:
ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS cover your hands when you type in your PIN.
The people using these skimmers NEED two pieces of information for access to your funds, your debit card info and your PIN #. They can get the PIN by hidden camera or even just looking like an innocent stranger behind you looking over your shoulder. It's not even funny how easy it is to get a simple four digits that will destroy your life outside of your hands.
again, ALWAYS cover your PIN# when typing it in.
So why don't they
A) take card skimmer
B) read card #s off said card skimmer
C) cross reference skimmed cards with bank transactions times and dates
D) go before first skimmed card and view atm video footage
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MY theory is that banks actually LIKE these card skimmers due to the money they make in bank fees from overdrafted accounts that people have once skimmers steal all their money.
For the banks it's a win/win situation!
@gerrylum: Apparently no one is capable of reading some sarcasm, unfortunately. Good point though!
@gerrylum: That is insanely stupid, when cash is pulled out of someones account the bank would have to return any fees and the money to the customer under Reg E guidelines.
Generally the bank takes the losses on these withdrawals because it is more cost efficient to pay it out to the customer without prosecuting anyone meaning the bank can lose hundreds if not thousands on each customer that this happens to.
@gerrylum: No way! Can you imagine all the manpower it takes to fix these issues. Every person may not know his/her daily balance, but people that get NSF fees notice. And they especially bitch and scream when it's not their fault. And then after spending at least an hour on the phone calming people down, they have to return the fee anyways.