var json_comments = new Array("
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dave_coder
April 29, 2009 1:32 AM
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These cases suck. There is no way to know if the customer is scamming the company or the company the customer.

What do you do in a case like this? No one wants to eat a $2000 brick?

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22 replies
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nakedscience
April 29, 2009 2:33 PM
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@dave_coder: \"What do you do in a case like this?\"


It seems to me that the store that accepted a box of rocks and then sold it should accept it. It's pretty clear from past posts that big box chains do not check returns. Ever. They just go, \"Yeh, sure, we'll resell it!\" And then it ends up as a box of rocks or full of porn.

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Anonymous
April 29, 2009 2:30 PM
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I ordered a ring off of Etsy and when I received it, the ring that I ordered was not the ring they sent me. I took pictures of the ring I got in the mail with the packaging and the invoice. I sent the seller all the photos I took and told her, \"Yeah, you sent me the wrong ring.\" With all of that, she sent me an email pretty much telling me that I was wrong and they sent me the ring I had ordered and I was the one scamming them. I believe she said something like, \"What kind of game are you pulling?\" I was about to tell her to pound sand and do a chargeback on my Amex when she went and searched her merchandise and realized she had sent me the wrong ring, and that she couldn't find the ring I had actually ordered. She eventually found it and offered to send it to me, but by then I was just ready to be done with her and I sent the ring back and got a refund, even when she had it posted on her site that all sales were final. It's amazing how many businesses think you're scamming them when the customer is actually the one that got screwed.

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floraposte
April 29, 2009 4:31 PM
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@ElbertaLelex: Yeah. I tried to buy an item from a woman who forgot that the PayPal account linked on her website was no longer her primary account, and she accused me not only of trying to swindle her but of forging the emails from PayPal saying that the payment had been received (no, she couldn't read headers). By the time she realized what an idiot she'd been, I figured I was better off without her stuff, since I could only imagine the level of crazy accusations if something got damaged in the mail.

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madog
April 29, 2009 8:06 AM
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@dave_coder: Just about every person who spends $5 at a fast food joint will check their bag to ensure that they got exactly what they ordered. I'm not blaming the OP here, but why don't people check out the box when they spend $2000?

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Ichiro51
April 29, 2009 9:14 AM
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@madog: Because the level of expectation is different. At a fast food restaurant, enough orders are screwed up due to a variety of factors that it's a prudent move. When purchasing supposedly sealed electronics from a retailer, the expectation is that the contents are identical to those in the rest of the boxes without any deviation - and that expectation is met, if not 99% of the time, a great deal more often than fast food orders are made perfectly.

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TheUncleBob
April 29, 2009 4:06 AM
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@dave_coder: For those saying that the store should open up the merchandise to verify it before selling it to the customer...

I've tried that where I work. Customers get upset. I know we're trying to *help* the customer, to make sure they're getting what they purchased, but customers don't like it when we break the seal of their new toy and expose it to air. It's crazy, I know. I don't know if it's because they're giving it as a gift or what, but I've had several, several customers express their frustration over me opening the package and having them check the contents.

Someone, somewhere, replied with the best solution - the packaging needs to have a window where the item can be seen. The serial number should *NOT* be on the package, but should be scanned directly off the item through the window.

This is, of course, up to the manufacturers to do, not something the stores can whip up.

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jswilson64
April 29, 2009 6:06 PM
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@TheUncleBob: They probably don't like you opening their stuff because you have a restocking fee for opened boxes.


But, if you return a brick, is the restocking fee 15% of what you paid, or 15% of the brick's value?

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secretmanofagent
April 29, 2009 3:12 PM
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@TheUncleBob:
Was done for PS3s and I think PS2s for certain. However, some \"enterprising\" individuals just put the sticker on the brick/fake item.

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mockidol
April 29, 2009 7:47 AM
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@TheUncleBob:


Probably the only intellignt thing I've ever seen on this site. Kudos to you. This is exactly what needs to be done. Video card makers and game systems already do this, which makes me wonder about the Nintendo DS claims.

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poedgirl
April 29, 2009 7:41 AM
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@TheUncleBob: This is what Microsoft did with the 360, a good move on their part imo (one of the few with this error prone console).

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nerdtalker
April 29, 2009 3:47 AM
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@dave_coder: Can I just say it? Seriously?

Fuck Best Buy. Fuck big box stores. No, stop, stop making excuses for them, just stop it. When they pull crap like this, they just prove again and again their absolute worthlessness. The whole point of a big box used to be that you had more support and more say than with a huge evil faceless website.

Now, it's the other way around. Best Lie employees run around freely taking whatever they want out of boxes, sealing them in the back with shrink wrappers so they can sell 'em as new again (and have plausible deniability since only the manufacturers have a $50 shrink wrapper, obviously).

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fanboy.took.my.star
April 29, 2009 2:42 AM
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@dave_coder: after reading the piles of articles about people getting duped by other customers i always open stuff in the store, right after purchase... an i never order anything expensive online anymore cause there is no proof to say i didnt do anything if i gt a brick...

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Firethorn
April 29, 2009 1:37 PM
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@urbanturban666: I think that one alternative to this is to go with a online retailer that you've built a trust with - and remember, just because you buy something from amazon.com doesn't mean that you're buying it from amazon.


But yeah, anything over a hundred bucks I tend to open in the store in front of the sales reps, often before I purchase, making it obvious up front that I'm checking for completeness.

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kc2idf
April 29, 2009 12:36 PM
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@urbanturban666:

Ding! Right on the first part.

As for things ordered on-line, I videotape the unboxing from start to finish.

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metaled
April 29, 2009 2:03 AM
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@dave_coder: 1000 assistant managers are laid off, 8000 salesmen are forced into a 25%-50% pay cut, I would look toward employee theft (taking back 50% pay cut). I they took half my (already lousy) pay, I would probably pocket whatever I could (If I was that type of person)

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Corporate_guy
April 29, 2009 1:44 AM
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@dave_coder: The fact that there is no way to know, means the customer wins. If best buy wants to stop the practice, they will take measures to prevent this. Best buy's failures are not the customers fault.

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woot
April 29, 2009 9:58 AM
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@Corporate_guy: Exactly. At some point the (allegedly or actually) stolen computer will have to connect to the internet for a software update or to set up something else (like iTunes). At that point Apple (or Microsoft in the case of Windows PCs) can get the serial number, the IP address, and other details (such as the e-mail address of the user), disable the computer, and alert law enforcement. If manufacturers were serious about helping prevent theft, they'd be doing this.

When a friends iPod was stolen, Apple refused to \"brick it\", even after they were forwarded a police report. An iPod is useless without iTunes, so it was perfectly possible for them to help, but they didn't want to get involved. So, either they have to trust the complainer or - if they don't like that - then there are things they can do. Personally, I'd prefer the latter - it would do a lot more to protect consumers from theft, muggings, etc. In short, it would be a great feature.

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LegoMan322
May 1, 2009 2:34 PM
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@woot: Understandably I agree with Apple that they should not brick it. The only reason I agree with this is because if the other people/cops are wrong, people are going to go straight for Apple then the cops. Then that is a huge headache.

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rorschachex
April 29, 2009 2:05 PM
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@woot: That's all well and good in the rare chance that the computer was stolen before it was bought, but honestly I wouldn't want Microsoft or Apple having that type of remote control over my PC. It's frustrating enough that a clean Windows install will automatically reboot your machine after installing updates until you change the settings. Having MS 'accidentally' disable my machine b/c of a fluke in the system or something else like that is something I'd rather not deal with.

People need to be careful on their own, I know that this is a rare situation and I truly feel for the OP, but bringing up these Big Brother security devices for iPods, etc is retarded and could lead to a giant breach of security.
It's logical to have something like this on a phone since it's meant to be linked to a network, etc, and consistently transmits personal data (your number, etc).

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Cocoa Vanilla
April 29, 2009 1:18 PM
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@woot: How would Apple brick it? iTunes does not transmit any information that would have the serial number or other identifying information, to Apple's servers. Even when you buy music on iTunes, it's downloaded to your computer and is synced without contacting Apple. Updates are the same way.

Point is, Apple has no way of bricking an iPod. An iPhone? Maybe so, since you have the cellular network. But an iPod? No.

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mrsultana can't get a password to work
April 29, 2009 10:38 AM
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@woot: Currently, chip manufacturers are trying to get unique ID's on the chips so a consumer can do EXACTLY that sort of thing... EXCEPT, people are throwing a fit (rightly so) about consumer privacy issues!
Yes, it would be better to be able to use banking securely, have fewer logins, and prevent theft, but at the cost of my personal freedoms? Today, they can disable my stolen computer, but with the computer manufacturers screwing up all the time and having horrible customer service (COUGH, Dell...), I don't want my computer bricked because someone decided my computer was stolen, was being used for IP infringement, or wasn't using \"approved\" software.
If it came down to paying $2100 for a computer that spied on me but I didn't have to open it in the store versus one costing $2100 and I was forced to open it first in the store, guess which one I'm buying?

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woot
April 29, 2009 12:10 PM
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@mrsultana: I'm talking about something you would activate after your computer was stolen - not something that spied on you \"out of the box\". Personally, I'd want the satisfaction of knowing that whoever stole from me would gain no benefit from that act and would stand a good likelihood of being caught and paying for their crime which, in itself, would make their crime much less likely to be committed in the first place.

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dave_coder
April 29, 2009 1:48 AM
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@Corporate_guy: But then it's a question of responsibility. It could be argued that it's the customer responsibility to open the box in the store to make sure that he/she is getting the right product.

Not siding with Best Buy here...just treating it as if I were running a small business with say ten employees and someone came along with a brick telling me I owe them a new laptop.

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lannister80
April 29, 2009 4:21 PM
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@dave_coder: Bullshit. It's not my job to make sure that what they're selling me is actually in the box. That's THEIR job, and if they're not doing it, people who get ripped of (legit) and fraudsters will both get free laptops until they clean up their act.

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ShadowFalls
April 29, 2009 4:47 AM
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@dave_coder:

How about to fix these issues, everything comes in clear packaging? You will always know what you are getting if you can see it before you buy it.

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William P Marshall
April 29, 2009 5:51 AM
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@ShadowFalls: You want to go back to the days when everything was packaged in a clam shell that ended up hurting the consumer?

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Xerloq
April 29, 2009 5:01 AM
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@ShadowFalls: Until someone starts pulling key components from inside the product and returning the shell like happened to the store I worked for back in my retail days.

Some dude would buy new computers, and pull the components out, then return the \"defective\" machine hoping we'd give him cash/product and RTV the \"defective\" merchandise.

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NightSteel
April 29, 2009 6:18 AM
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@Xerloq: A long time ago when I bought a PSOne, there was a window in the bottom of the box that went up to the serial number on the unit, to easily ensure that it matched. Yeah, it doesn't help if someone rips out the guts, but the alternative there is to rip open enclosures and/or hook up the hardware and turn it on to make sure it works and it hasn't been replaced with inferior parts.

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Etoiles
April 29, 2009 1:30 PM
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@NightSteel: All gaming consoles are sold this way, and the serial number scanned at point of sale. (At least, Playstation 2, Playstation 3, PSP, Nintendo DS, GameCube, Wii, XBox, and XBox 360, at GameStop and at Target. Also at Nintendo World in Manhattan but that's kind of a one-off there.)

It does make you wonder why other electronics don't also do that.

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dialing_wand
April 29, 2009 1:40 AM
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@dave_coder: Please buy direct of from an Apple store. Best Buy is at best a shady used-car dealer anyway. Porn in the DVD player that's \"NEW.\"

Or. The rock is a feature.

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iambeaker
April 29, 2009 1:19 PM
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@dialing_wand: Can someone buy an extended warranty for this brick? Does Monster Cable make a $100 usb cable for this? Why isn't Best Buy \"taking this seriously?\" So many questions, so few answers

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Cyberxion101
April 29, 2009 1:09 PM
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@dave_coder: You're thinking about it in an incredibly one-sided manner Dave.

See, just as it may be argued that it's the customer's responsibility to check his items before he leaves the store, I think that it's likewise arguable that it's the store's responsibility to make sure that its employees are following proper procedures for returns.

Seriously, all they have to do to ensure that this doesn't happen is to open the box and check what's inside it before they accept the return. However, I'm betting that Best Buy wants to resell this stuff as new, and so if it's sealed up convincingly by the scammer, they won't even check it. I think that's evinced by the DVD player they tried to resell as new, that ended up having porn in it.

So it's most definitely a failing on Best Buy's part. What's worse is that it works in Best Buy's favor, because the onus is on the consumer to prove that he isn't a thief. It sucks. Someone of some influence needs to crawl up Best Buy's colon and get some much needed changes made...

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TheUncleBob
April 29, 2009 1:46 PM
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@Cyberxion101: \"So it's most definitely a failing on Best Buy's part.\"

You mean there's absolutely, 100% no chance this customer didn't buy the item, take it out and replace it with a brick, then try to get a refund?

Tell me, what happens when a scammer buys an item, takes it home, opens it, removes the good item and replaces it with a brick, seals the package back like it's factory sealed, then tries to return it to the store and they *do* open it when it's returned? The scammer just gets to say \"I never even opened it! You guys were trying to rip me off!\" and we end up exactly where we're at now.

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Cyberxion101
April 29, 2009 2:59 PM
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@TheUncleBob: Did I say that? See, what I thought I was getting at is that if Best Buy had stronger procedures in place at the return level, this would be a non-issue.


Maybe I'm just naïve, but I believe that all it takes to keep everyone from being scammed all around is for Best Buy's customer service folks to open the damn box and make sure that what's inside is what should be inside it before they accept a return. If it were a matter of policy to do this, it would be impossible for scammers to put one over on them, which in turn would protect the customer.


I know that this is likely to be taken as anecdotal evidence given how cynical you folks are, but I just returned an external HDD to Best Buy a little over a week ago, and the girl at customer service didn't bother to open the box to make sure the HDD was actually in there. Now I'm not an unscrupulous bastard, but I can see how that sort of thing would make it incredibly easy for someone to scam them.


And let's be real. With this policy in place, that scammer in your hypothetical situation would be revealed as such. There's no ambiguity about it under these circumstances. They're not getting boxes of rocks from the manufacturers. As long as they're not taking returns without checking them first, the matter would be pretty cut-and-dry. As it stands, it's their lackadaisical return procedures that put them and their customers in such a compromising position.


So yeah, it's totally a failing on Best Buy's part.

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dialing_wand
April 29, 2009 1:41 AM
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@dialing_wand:

PS - Apple should fix it just because. 1 Brick/Heavy Object replacement per person with proof of purchase. Is it too much to ask?

Think of the children.

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CRCError1970
April 29, 2009 1:32 AM
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I bet Manager Keith is conveniently forgetting that his store has a shrink wrap machine in the back storeroom, too. Just because Apple seals the boxes doesn't mean one of his employee's can't reseal that box after jacking the goods.

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6 replies
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mockidol
April 29, 2009 7:48 AM
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@CRCError1970:


Apple doesn't shrink wrap their boxes. Neither does Best Buy. Always look for the FACTORY seal.

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SanDiegoDude
April 29, 2009 1:40 PM
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@mockidol: Um, a blow dryer on low will peel back that sticker after only a few minutes of heating. Open box, remove contents, and heat sticker again to re-apply without looking tampered with. I have a coworker who does this when he buys video games for his PS3. he says it's so he can return it if the game sucks, he just reseals it up and brings it back to the store \"unopened\".

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Michael Tirona
April 29, 2009 4:26 AM
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@CRCError1970: I bought my MacBook Pro fom best buy and it was only sealed with a sticker.

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tande04
April 29, 2009 5:16 AM
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So the argument is still the same.

Its 'sealed' with a 'sticker'.

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dave_coder
April 29, 2009 1:33 AM
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@CRCError1970: Apple MacBook boxes are not shrink wrapped they are sealed with a sticker.

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CRCError1970
April 29, 2009 1:34 AM
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@dave_coder: Sure, that's how they come from the factory. Who says this is how it was purchased?

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Zenatrul
April 29, 2009 2:18 AM
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@CRCError1970:


Noticed the first picture, The Macbook boxes have a handle on them. If they shrink wrapped it, then it would defeat the purpose of the handle on it and dave is right, they have a sticker that seals it.

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Suttin
April 29, 2009 2:49 AM
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@Zenatrul:

We used to have those kind of stickers at EB games, I'm sure Best Buy does too.

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CRCError1970
April 29, 2009 1:38 AM
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@CRCError1970: The reason I say that is because I had a friend buy an XBOX360 from a Best Buy that had been shrink wrapped. When he got it home he found it was a brick and obviously had been repacked.

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djsyndrome
April 29, 2009 2:36 PM
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@CRCError1970: that's funny, because all new 360s have a pass-through window so the register biscuit can scan the serial number. And most POS systems (including, likely, Best Buy's) require the S/N to be scanned before the unit can be sold. If a box did truly make it out the door with a brick inside, it sounds like an inside job.

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rpm773
April 29, 2009 1:35 AM
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Alright, let's not jump to conclusions here. Plug it in, turn it on, and see if it does anything.

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9 replies
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lemortede
April 29, 2009 2:33 PM
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@rpm773:

You made me *snark* on my KB.
LOL
Well played

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Amanda Davis Reeves
April 29, 2009 1:45 PM
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@winstonthorne: I wonder if he checked to see if it was turned on first.

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MikeM_inMD
April 29, 2009 2:16 AM
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@rpm773: I don't see the power cable in that box. And where is the on/off switch?

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cjones27
April 29, 2009 1:57 AM
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@rpm773: Yeah, aren't Macs supposed to be easier to use than PCs? This seems much simpler. No pesky \"buttons\" or \"computer\" to confuse anyone.

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cjones27
April 29, 2009 2:23 AM
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@babyruthless: Ha! Made my evening.

\"I'll buy anything that's shiny and made by Apple.\"

Sounds oddly familiar...

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andybarlow01
April 29, 2009 1:38 AM
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Sounds like another reason for the golden rule when purchasing electronics to be stated...

After purchasing, but before you LEAVE THE STORE, open it and see if you're getting what you purchased. That way, you're certain you received what you paid for and they are sure they sold you what you paid for.

I've been doing this for about 10 years now and I've never been ripped like this. One can argue that it's not practical to open your merchandise before leaving the store, but is it more practical to go thru the nightmare this guy will go thru? Logic people...love it...use it.

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7 replies
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Pixel
April 29, 2009 3:55 PM
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@Andy Barlow: That sounds about right.

Though when I bought my laptop at Best Buy I took it one better and opened it *before* I bought it, in the presence of a sale associate, accounted for all the pieces and made sure it had no signs of use before I put it back in the box and paid for it.

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zandar
April 29, 2009 2:36 PM
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@Andy Barlow: I hope it finally GOES WITHOUT SAYING to do this. How many examples of this sort of fraud do we have to see?

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econobiker
April 29, 2009 3:41 PM
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@zandar: I hark back to the story of my ex-wife's stupid cousin getting bricks in place of a sewing machine from Walmart. The stupid part came in explaining to her that she wouldn't be arrested for returning the stuff and then explaining why someone would do such an act.

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fanboy.took.my.star
April 29, 2009 2:45 AM
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@Andy Barlow: its a good practice... especially since they just wont believe you if you come back the next day with a brick (mason) of an xbox...

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kyle4
April 29, 2009 1:48 AM
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@Andy Barlow: Yup, this works. I bought a scratched CD, exchanged it for another one. I opened the new one right in front of customer service and it was cracked. Better then driving home, opening it, then having to go back again for the same CD.

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dialing_wand
April 29, 2009 1:43 AM
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@Andy Barlow: Oh, I agree. Open it there.

But also: never, ever, let \"there\" be a Best Buy.

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TheObserver
April 29, 2009 1:41 AM
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@Andy Barlow: That's actually a great tip, thanks. I've never had a problem but you never know.

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Bluth_Cornballer
April 29, 2009 1:47 AM
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I do believe that is the exact opposite of a Mac Book Air.

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4 replies
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silver-bolt
April 29, 2009 8:31 AM
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@Bluth_Cornballer: Mac Book Earth.

Now if only the Mac Book Water was made, we would have all four.

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chauncy that billups
April 29, 2009 5:04 PM
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@silver-bolt: what's the Mac Book Fire? The one where the battery spontaneously combusts?

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Anonymous
May 3, 2009 8:19 PM
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@bilups: Ouch... too soon!I'd settle for an Apple U.niversal P.ower S.upply (with amazing features).

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mrsultana can't get a password to work
April 29, 2009 10:46 AM
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@silver-bolt: And then, when their powers combine, they release the power of the champion of the technocrati, Captain iPlanet!

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Corporate-Shill
April 29, 2009 1:48 AM
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Prove it.


Sorry, there are just way too many of these \"substituted goods\" posts.


IF these were factual, my first telephone call would be to the local PD. Second call is going to the state AG to encourage a state wide investigation of the merchant.


Instead these complaints land on consumer forums.


Sounds too much like an attemtp to shake down the merchant and/or manufacturer.

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5 replies
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HogwartsAlum
April 29, 2009 4:52 PM
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@Corporate-Shill:

If they'd just open the returns and check them, they wouldn't get shaken down. But they don't.

Easy to scam them; easy for them to skunk the poor slob that ends up buying the box of bricks. It's a lose all around, because they're too damn lazy to CHECK THE F***ING BOX.

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WraithSama
April 29, 2009 2:14 AM
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@Corporate-Shill:


Though it may not alwyas be practical, I think the retailer helping the customer check the merchandise at time of purchase is a great service to both.


A local Little Caesars pizza store has begun opening the boxes of every Hot 'N Ready pizza they sell in front of the customers to verify that they are getting the topping they wanted. I was pleased to see this, since I once forgot to check myself and got home to find a cheese pizza in a box that was supposed to be pepperoni.

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sponica
April 29, 2009 2:33 AM
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@WraithSama: Back in the dark ages, when I worked for KB Toys we had to open the package take out the components and sign the inside of the box. Then corporate told us to stop. Prob explains why KB is no more (among many many things..I haven't worked there since summer 2002 but I totally wasn't surprised when they liquidated)

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Drew5764
April 29, 2009 2:02 AM
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@Corporate-Shill: Rather than make the customer (regardless of whether or not he was the substituter or not) \"prove it\", the company has an inherent interest in making sure that they're selling the correct product.

If the store employees know that all merchandise is checked out before it leaves, it makes in-store theft a wee bit harder to perform.

It also protects the store from scams like this - before the customer leaves the store, they're acknowledging that the correct item is in the box.

It's easier to avoid problems in the first place than to resolve them afterwards. Bad publicity for Best Buy, regardless of the customer being right or wrong. If he's right, they look like they can't sell products worth a damn. Wrong, and they look like a ripe target for cons (as if they weren't a good target already).

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eelmonger
April 29, 2009 4:18 AM
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@Drew5764: Wait a minute, are you advocating receipt checks on The Consumerist? I don't care about them, but some people here think they are worse than forced sodomy.

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VeeKaChu
April 29, 2009 2:56 PM
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@eelmonger:\"Receipt checks\" and \"consumers verifying the packaged contents of big-ticket items prior to leaving the store\" are mutually exclusive. No place that actually tries to do the former ever does the latter that I'm aware of.


Receipt checks are the devil's own pointless distraction, and I'll not submit. But it is in my own best interest to verify that the pretty box I'm toting out of the store does indeed contain what is purported, before I'm out the door, and in sight of an employee.

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Wombatish
April 30, 2009 5:23 AM
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@VeeKaChu: Just like it's in the store's best interest to make sure the pretty box you're toting out of the store doesn't contain about 8 extra items you \"forgot were in there\".

You're allowed to cover your ( )( ) but the store isn't?

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Wombatish
April 29, 2009 6:36 AM
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@Wombatish: Checks when they benefit the consumer, not the store.

A receipt check and a box check are essentially the same. They make sure you get what you paid for... in the case of the box, not less, and in the case of the receipt, not more :P

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Wombatish
April 29, 2009 6:37 AM
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@Wombatish: I meant that \"Many Consumerist readers suddenly love... checks when they benefit the consumer, not the store (necessarily)\"

Long, bad day. Want to buy edit functionality!

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SamitaCachimba
April 29, 2009 1:53 AM
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I'm not sure about the Mac Book but I do know that brand new video games consoles/handhelds have bar code stickers attached directly to the unit themselves that are scanned through a hole in the box. I know for a fact that this was true of my DS, PSP, PS3 and 360, so I don't get how things like this happen to people.

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2 replies
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Anonymous
April 29, 2009 2:13 AM
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@SamitaCachimba: the largest problem is that on computers, the serial numbers aren't scanned, they're on the unit themselves, or on the boxes in some cases. You can't do anything without opening the box. That being said, it would be a smart thing for laptop makers to put the hole in the box and the serial number there, but that won't happen. I'm still wondering how the DS thing happened knowing that the serial number has to be scanned...but I digress.

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mrsultana can't get a password to work
April 29, 2009 10:50 AM
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@DanaePig[17]: Some of the DS's are packaged in a clamshell for various reasons, including bundling with a game or accessories. There is a sticker on the back of the clamshell with the SN.

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Amanda Davis Reeves
April 29, 2009 1:36 PM
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@mrsultana: see...that box o rocks DS kid, walmart shoulda known to check for a barcode in the window of the ds box

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wcnghj
April 29, 2009 1:54 AM
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Just wait for the charge to post. A chargeback should be pretty easy.

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3 replies
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XanderCrews
April 29, 2009 5:15 AM
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@wcnghj: I made this comment at Giz, but I think it bears repeating -
A little free legal advice to anyone faced with a similar situation: the Truth in Lending Act is your friend in a situation like this. Go to the retailer, try and get them to fix the problem. If they don't, take good notes, write a letter to the store manager and then call your credit card company. Tell them the situation (especially the part about where you made a good faith effort to resolve the problem with the merchant) and have them perform a charge back to your card. The card company will be your friend in the situation because they want to avoid liability under the act.
This is why I make all my purchases on a credit (not debit) card.
[www.creditcards.com]

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bohemian
April 29, 2009 12:26 PM
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@XanderCrews: If I use my debt card as a credit card when conducting the purchase my bank will do a full chargeback. We have had to do this twice and received the funds back within 24 hours.

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Anonymous
April 29, 2009 6:39 AM
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@XanderCrews: For someone who seems knowledgeable in this area you seem to have been misinformed about one important aspect.

Debit cards are just as safe as CREDIT cards, if your debit card has a major credit card logo on it then you have the same protections as if you owned that credit card. The only reason why people feel safer with a credit card is because of the allusion they have that the money they are spending is not really their money... it is the credit cards money. A reality check though would indicate that roughly at the end of the month you are paying for what you buy.. maybe not in full, but you are paying for it.

There is a reason why people should have both a checkings and a savings account, but people treat their credit card as their checkings and their checking account as their savings and just simply leave there savings account near 0 because they aren't putting anything back like they should be doing.

So what I am saying to you is that the main reason you are using your credit card has nothing to do with this so called \"protection\" your primary reason is something much more irresponsible and you are just trying to justify it.

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RB_Bhoy
April 29, 2009 1:57 AM
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talk about \"bricking\" right out of the box!

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3 replies
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Marc Melton
April 29, 2009 1:59 AM
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@RB_Bhoy: HAH! Great line.

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Michael Boyd
April 29, 2009 1:58 AM
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Isn't the serial number on the box? Can it be traced?

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6 replies
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humphrmi
April 29, 2009 2:11 AM
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@Michael Boyd: Depends. A couple of scenarios here:

1. While sitting in stock at Best Buy (or even at their suppliers or shippers warehouse) someone opened the box, took out the system, put in the brick. From that point on, even if serial numbers are scanned, the assumption is that \"Apple sealed it at the factory\" and nobody ever opens the box to make sure it's not a brick. In this case, there's really nothing to trace... someone else is using the macbook, and probably hasn't registered it.

2. A customer bought the macbook, took it out, replaced it with a brick, and then returned it under the auspices of changed mind, cold feet, got two for Christmas, whatever. The store didn't check inside the box when they took it back. Eventually they tried to sell it again, and someone got the brick. Again, the person who stole it probably isn't going to send in the warranty registration card to Apple, so even with a serial number on it, it won't be discovered.

The third option is that whichever way it was stolen, it ended up in the black market and some unsuspecting dupe will or has bought it on eBay. In that case, they won't know its stolen and will try to register it. Catching it here relies on two things: (1) that Apple gives enough of a sh!t to compare registered S/N's against a \"stolen list\" - not likely. (2) that if BB sold it and took it back, at some point they scanned in the S/N as sold. I've seen BB scan S/N's irregularly. I don't know if this even goes anywhere where it can be cross-checked and used to detect a crime.

Long winded response, I know, but unfortunately the serial number is not as useful as a theft deterrent as it should be.

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madog
April 29, 2009 8:11 AM
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@humphrmi: Yeah, Apple can record and track serial numbers, however, they would only do it for the retailer if anything, and not the consumer.

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Michael Boyd
April 29, 2009 2:00 AM
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@Michael Boyd:

I just double-checked my Air box, and it's a sticker.

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Thaddeus
April 29, 2009 1:59 AM
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@Michael Boyd: What about the serial number on the brick? Perhaps we can find the home store where that was purchased?

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Michael Boyd
April 29, 2009 2:10 AM
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@Thaddeus:

Well there must have been a real MBP in their at some point. The serial number will match the machine.

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webreacher
April 29, 2009 2:08 AM
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@Thaddeus: I'm wondering the same thing. Can Apple trace it?

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Thaddeus
April 29, 2009 2:00 AM
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I don't want to be the first to say it, but really, I don't think the brick is all that good looking.

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kurtisnelson
April 29, 2009 2:02 AM
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I recently bought a macbook at Best Buy (Nearest apple store is not near, got assaulted by reciept checker, but that's another story) The checkout people would not let me open the box until I had paid for it, and they made sure to tell me that as soon as I opened it is subject to a restocking fee. They found it really odd that I wanted to check it.

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6 replies
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dave_coder
April 29, 2009 2:19 PM
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@kurtisnelson: So you open it after you buy and if it's a brick I'm sure they wouldn't charge you a restocking fee.

If they break the seal they have to sell it as an OPEN BOX or DEMO at a discount.

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Joseph F. Becker
April 29, 2009 12:09 PM
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@kurtisnelson: Well you're going to open it as soon as you get home, anyway, so no reason to not do it right at the store with witnesses.

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Zclyh3
April 29, 2009 3:57 AM
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@kurtisnelson:

If that's the case, I wouldn't have purchased the unit then. If they won't let a customer check to make sure the product is there, then I don't want to buy it. If they won't let us do it, then Best Buy employees should open the laptop RIGHT in front of the customer to make sure they're not being screwed over. Then when the check is complete, they should reseal it back up with a sticker so the customer can still return it if unopened.

Another reason not to buy high priced items from Best Buy. I bought a Raptor drive from them before and IMMEDIATELY opened it in front of them. I keep learning more myself since I kept checking Consumerist.

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mockidol
April 29, 2009 7:53 AM
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@Zclyh3:


Yeah. If Besy Buy let people open the box before they bought it then it is at that point open. The next customer does not want to buy an open item. Buy the product, open it in front of them, and if there is a problem then you're fine. You can't expect a retail store to allow people to go around opening sealed products whenever. It'd lead to this exact problem. OMG, I bought a laptop and it was reslealed and sold as new!

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pecan 3.14159265
April 29, 2009 1:48 PM
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@mockidol: I don't know...there's open and then there's used. I will buy an open item if I know that a) it was opened 30 seconds ago and b) nothing was used or turned on, or touched. Simple confirmation that a product is exactly what it is supposed to be shouldn't immediately mean \"used!\"

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fanboy.took.my.star
April 29, 2009 2:50 AM
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@kurtisnelson: i can understand not allowing people to open it before purchase, un-boxing is a right that a legit owner should have... however, if the product is not there/busted they should change it or refund it without hassels... restocking fees should be there if there is no issues (fickle people who change there minds too much) otherwise people will just keep \"renting\" stuff for free...

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floraposte
April 29, 2009 2:20 AM
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@kurtisnelson: I think they would have a hard time justifying restocking a brick.

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Grrrrrrr, now with two buns made of bacon.
April 29, 2009 2:06 AM
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I hear there's a revolutionary new material called \"plastic\" that can be made into clear product packaging!

(Even a little plastic peep-hole would do!)

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1 replies
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kc2idf
April 29, 2009 12:35 PM
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@Comrade ☠Grяrяrяrяrяrяrя reporting for duty!: Interestingly enough, AMD processors that are packaged for retail sale have such a peep hole which shows you the label on the top of the chip package.

And plastic is capitalist, not revolutionary, comrade. :)

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fleebailey33
April 29, 2009 2:07 AM
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yes but a restocking fee if you return it as is.
if obviously damaged on there part no restocking fee.
also i agree with machael boyde. why weren't the police called? Why isn't a lawsuit being filed? there are a alot of these and the depression is bad for anyone. The serial number should be on the box. I think that is a great clue.

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webreacher
April 29, 2009 2:07 AM
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Thanks to Consumerist, I now open all boxes. Just in case.

Recently, I witnessed, a customer trying to return a GPS. The model in the box, was not the same, as on the box. I still wonder : was he trying to scam, or he was a victim...

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3 replies
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fanboy.took.my.star
April 29, 2009 2:52 AM
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@webreacher: in store un-boxing is the only way to protect a purchase these days... since the assholes who do the switch and return scams are everywhere...

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econobiker
April 29, 2009 3:48 PM
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@urbanturban666: I even did the open the box at Walmart customer service for a $50 car radio.


One item I didn't open was a small window air conditioner from Walmart since the boxes were all strapped with two plastic bands and I pulled the unit we bought from under a couple of others. The checkout person had to enter its serial number supposedly for the warranty on our receipt. I couldn't help but think that this was for a return tracking situation also. Even if you paid cash originally you would have to give your name etc if returning the item.

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Corporate-Shill
April 29, 2009 2:44 AM
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@webreacher:


Yep. Same crap second verse.


Until store start inspecting goods as they go out the door this crap is going to continue.

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Anonymous
April 29, 2009 2:10 AM
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I have had luck with major best buy issues with:

Sarah Pieper
Geek Squad Public Defender
Executive Resolution Specialist
Best Buy Co., Inc.
Phone: 612-292-0154
Fax: 952-430-4997
sarah.pieper@bestbuy.com

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Jerry Bernard
April 29, 2009 2:11 AM
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One part of me feels sorry for the guy, the other part of me is saying \"That brick is not secured in the box. It is just lying in there loose. You would know when you picked up the box that there was something odd right away\"

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4 replies
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Michael Belisle
April 29, 2009 5:08 AM
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@Jerry Bernard: This is why I always vigorously shake boxes before buying.

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madog
April 29, 2009 8:13 AM
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@Michael Belisle: I do that to babies. Just to make sure they are real and not some new pure-breed zombie species....

What? Too soon?

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secret_curse
April 29, 2009 2:46 PM
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@madog: Well, you're not going to be practicing on your iPhone any more...

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MustyBuckets
April 29, 2009 4:17 AM
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@Jerry Bernard: It was packed in with Bubble Wrap, as seen in the first and third picture and mentioned in the article. It probably did not bounce around.

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Jerry Bernard
April 29, 2009 4:46 AM
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@MustyBuckets: In a cagematch between bubble wrap and a large brick, I say the victory goes to the brick.

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Xerloq
April 29, 2009 5:08 AM
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@Jerry Bernard: Not so, for the same reason one does not bleed to death on a bed of nails.

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Donathius
April 29, 2009 2:13 AM
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I had something similar happen with an iPod I bought direct from Apple. The shipping box had an empty, ripped open iPod and nothing else (not even the ear buds or USB cable). I called up Apple and explained the situation. The CSR said that they would be sending a new one out and opening an inquiry with the shipper. Two days later I had a box with (gasp!) an iPod in it!

I have no idea what the outcome of the inquiry was, but it didn't really matter to me as Apple made things right even though it wasn't even necessarily their fault. If Best Buy won't cooperate I'd give Apple a call. Just make sure you're nice on the phone and they'll take good care of you.

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Robert Russo
April 29, 2009 10:20 AM
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@Donathius:
The first Apple I ever bought (Powerbook G3) was taking an awful long time arriving after having paid two day shipping, so I called Apple and they sent me another one next day air. I was upset at DHL, but Apple made it right.

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Anonymous
May 1, 2009 2:12 PM
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@Robert Russo: Similar story. Ordered some software from Apple, but it didn't show up after 2 weeks. Checked the shipping website, and it said \"Delivered\".. Rang them..\"Uhh..what?\". They said, it had been delivered, I countered with well I don't have it. I was told by 3 different CSRs that there wasn't anything they could do because it had been delivered and signed for. Called Apple (in Sydney, I'm in Melbourne). 20 minutes later I was called by the same lady I spoke to, she told me she had located my product and was sending a courier to pick it up and bring it to me wherever i was in the city (at work). I had the software 30 minutes after that. She called again the next day to confirm I was happy. I told her I was amazed by the Apple response. She then told me they had \"retired\" the company they were shipping with in Australia and changed to a new one. No problems since!

I say, to the OP, try Apple, see if they can help.

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Myotheralt
April 29, 2009 2:34 AM
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@Donathius: That could lead to a scam itself. Receive item, claim it was missing in the mail, receive second for free.

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Michael Belisle
April 29, 2009 5:14 AM
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@Myotheralt: That's called fraud. It's a crime. And usually not all that hard to dream up ways to do it.

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GuinevereRucker
April 29, 2009 5:08 AM
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@Myotheralt: True, but in my experience with Apple, they tend to trust their customers by default, rather than suspecting them. Most Apple software is easy to pirate, for example, because Apple counts on its customers' goodwill.

Personally I enjoy being treated like a honest customer (in turn I am honest with them and pay for things), and I hope the thieves/scammers don't make Apple regret this policy.

I could be wrong about all this, it's just a general impression of years of being an Apple fanboi.

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Christy Casper
April 29, 2009 4:24 PM
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@GuinevereRucker: I've heard the same good things about Apple in general. I have an iPhone and have never had problems with it, but I've heard they're cool when you do have issues.

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mockidol
April 29, 2009 7:56 AM
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@GuinevereRucker:


Apple is great at taking are of customers. My mother dropped her 3 month iPod in the ocean and called them, and told them the truth. They sent her a new iPod no charge.

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floraposte
April 29, 2009 2:21 AM
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Okay, I only just saw the \"I got a rock\" tag. Love you, Laura.

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bostonmike
April 29, 2009 2:32 AM
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First, try reinstalling the operating system.

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1 replies
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GuinevereRucker
April 29, 2009 5:09 AM
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@bostonmike: Actually, what you want to do is zap the BIOS :)

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Myotheralt
April 29, 2009 2:33 AM
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Well, part of that $2000 went to the bubble wrap.

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Anonymous
April 29, 2009 2:35 AM
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I was amazed at how quickly through the detective work of Consumerist readers the case of the tampered with Domino's pizzas was solved.

Maybe if the MacBook's serial number was published someone may be able to locate it.

The serial # is printed on the box.

Kind of like an Amber Alert for computers.

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Asmordean
April 29, 2009 2:38 AM
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So that's what happens when you perform a bad BIOS flash!

Seriously, after reading Consumerist I open anything that I can't see through the package either in the store or just outside. Much easier to deal with if you find a brick 6 minutes after purchase than a few days.

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tyep
April 29, 2009 2:41 AM
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We got a pallet of macbooks at my work, a box in the middle in the bottom row was empty, no rock or computer. As far as I know the pallet came from the factory. Insurance did cover it though.

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Casimir Couvillion
April 29, 2009 2:44 AM
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He could have gotten an HP paving stone for much less.

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Modred189
April 29, 2009 2:46 AM
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This is actually part of the Best Buy/Microsoft agreement from those new ads. It's Best Buy's way of punishing idiots for spending too much money on a non-MS product. WHich is bad. Because redmond says so... 0.o

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pgh9fan1
April 29, 2009 2:47 AM
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The problem with opening the box right after you paid for it but before you leave the store is that the manager will still say it's Apple's fault and won't accept the return.

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3 replies
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jswilson64
April 29, 2009 6:02 PM
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@pgh9fan1: And if you open the box a restocking fee applies.


Although 15% of a brick isn't really that much to pay...

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GearheadGeek
April 29, 2009 3:01 AM
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@pgh9fan1: That is when you call the police on your cell phone to report a theft by deception. The manager can choose between accepting the return and having you press charges.

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quail
April 29, 2009 2:33 PM
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@GearheadGeek: Any store manager that would try to pull that is ignorant. The stores have a system for returns to the manufacturer.

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EdanJellyfish
April 29, 2009 2:49 AM
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Well the thief got one thing right at least... the brick is a unibody. :)

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parrotuya
April 29, 2009 2:49 AM
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Sounds like a mob hijacking. Gangsters probably took a whole truck-load. So Wal-Mart will have to eat it since they don't have any goons to take on the wise-guys who did it. Wally-world is too cheap to hire some muscle.

DOWn, baby, DOWn!

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Corporate-Shill
April 29, 2009 2:51 AM
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Back in the day, we use to have nice display boxes that had cutouts on several sides of the the box to show the actual goods inside.


Blister packs (I hate them as well) that mount the item with a clear view of both sides of the goods.


Anybody catching the pattern?


Instead we have blister packs that hide the goods behind a cardboard facade and heavy packing boxes with zippo chance to view the goods before they leave the stores.


Can't see the goods through the packing materials? Then the box gets opened before it leaves the store. Should be store policy. Solves a couple problems and prevents even more problems.

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maevealleine
April 29, 2009 2:53 AM
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I smell scam on the part of the customers. sorry, i just do.

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Anonymous
April 29, 2009 3:00 AM
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I purchased a Sony PSP from a local Fred Meyer store several years ago, not long after the PSP came to market. I had the presence of mind to open the box immediately after purchase, while still at the register. Box was factory sealed, and had no indication of tampering even the weight seemed correct. However, upon opening the box I was greeted with a brand new shiny 15 year old Magnavox TV remote and what appeared to be an RC Battery recharger. The clerk at the register was surprised as my brother and I was. They promptly replaced my purchase with another PSP (after a short visit to the customer service desk), which I was happy to see was complete in its packaging.

If you are spending any amount of money you would be unhappy to lose, and have any doubts about your ability to exchange bricks, remotes or Chinese newspapers for the actual purchased product, I highly recommend opening your product at the place of purchase and verifying its contents.

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1 replies
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quail
April 29, 2009 2:35 PM
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@BerthaTapir: I too am now in the habit of opening high priced electronic gear in the store in front of witnesses before I leave.

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bkdlays
April 29, 2009 3:03 AM
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There is a small chain in Florida called Brandsmart.. it is a scary ghetto shady company, but the one thing they insist on is opening the box and showing you everything is there.

It actually makes perfect sense though since there is no other way to verify what really happened.

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baristabrawl
April 29, 2009 3:11 AM
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I open everything in the store that costs more than $100. Or is electronic. Or needs batteries. Or is bought from Best Buy.

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ct_price
April 29, 2009 3:23 AM
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Back in the day I used to buy computer hardware from a place that serialized everything they sold. When you bought something the item's serial number was recorded in their sale software which also recorded the date of purchase. When you returned it they scanned the serial to make sure it was an item you actually bought and they opened the package to make sure the item was the right one and matched the serial on the box. Serial numbered item tracks with the customer sales data. Simple system and it worked. Cut return fraud waaaayyyyyy down. Why can't the big box stores do the same. Nearly everything electronic is serialized.

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FuryOfFirestorm
April 29, 2009 3:42 AM
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Most expensive pet rock ever.

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FuryOfFirestorm
April 29, 2009 3:44 AM
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This happens when \"I WANNA ROCK\" is taken literally.

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Hawk07
April 29, 2009 3:53 AM
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To be fair, that's a very nice $2,200 rock and probably one of a kind.

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jenjen
April 29, 2009 3:56 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

I see stories like this all the time from big-box stores. Has anyone had anything like this happen with Amazon? Not talking about bad packaging/shipping or the real product that arrives broken, but opening the box that's supposed to contain your hard drive to find some rocks.

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Trick
April 29, 2009 4:33 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

1. I knew this was probably a Best Buy thing once I saw the brick. Best Buy is pretty much the only place where you can pay big $$$ for something an employee already stole or used...

If the OP can somehow track the MacBook down by its serial number, maybe he can get the iSight to take a photo of the Best Buy employee using it?

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Extended-Warranty
April 29, 2009 4:46 AM
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I don't think everyone needs to blame Best Buy as much as they do. They are the largest in consumer electronics. People like to steal electronics. Put 2 and 2 together. Contrary to popular belief, there are no shrinkwrap stores in Best Buys. Customers WILL rip off retailers with this kind of deception. What can they do? Even if they \"catch\" someone, there is no proof. What's the difference between someone who blatantly ripped us off or made the claim that they were ripped off?


This is why manufacturers NEED to put a factory seal on everything. Some manufacturers use shrink wrap that has their brand name. Better methods are needed.

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Anonymous
May 5, 2009 12:05 AM
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@Extended-Warranty: I don't think that my Macbook was shrink wrapped, but I could be wrong. However, there is certainly a shrink wrap machine in the storage area at Best Buy.

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synergy
April 29, 2009 5:12 AM
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Damn. You know, I know when my system is getting old because I load a program and it turns out to be such a resource hog that it 'bricks' my system. But to have the system actually be a brick?? lol That there's comedy gold! :D

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sam-i-am
April 29, 2009 5:15 AM
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\"Take it up with Apple\"

Sorry, Keith, I didn't buy this from Apple, I bought it from you. You sold it to me. You sold me a red brick. Not Apple.

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Randy Treibel
April 29, 2009 6:45 AM
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1) I feel sorry for the customer and hope it works out
2) Why is anyone shopping at best buy still???

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Anonymous
April 29, 2009 7:19 AM
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I bought a Xbox360 game of Rock Band 2 track pack that was supposed come with a 1 time use code that lets you download the songs to your Xbox. Mine was shrink wrapped and had Microsoft seal stickers attached and when I opened it the code was blacked out with a Sharpie. I immediately took it back, I was lucky they let me exchange it and I made them open it in front of me and verify the code was included.

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Anonymous
April 29, 2009 8:37 AM
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This happened to me, too. I bought a copy of Final Cut Express, but the disc and serial number were not in the box. They told me that it was Apple's problem. After some investigating, I figured out that the shrink wrap on my copy was different that what Apple uses. I tried to explain to Best Buy's corporate office that someone bought, removed the disc, re-shrink wrapped the box, and made a return. Every response from Best Buy was something along the lines of \"We do not sell used software. It's not our problem.\" Infuriating! Luckily, Apple replaced the software. Best Buy lost my business ever since that.

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Richard Chiswell
April 29, 2009 9:26 AM
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If you open it in the store and it's not the product your ordered/paid for, how can they charge you a restocking fee for something you didn't pay for? If it is legal in the USA, I'm tempted to open a shop with the wrong products in each box and have a sign by the door saying \"For your own security, please check your item before leaving\" and make a big buck on the restocking fees :D Shops mistake=Shop pays.

As to the \"Take it up with Apple, that's how we received it\" - I know in the UK, your contract is with the shop as that's where you brought it from. You are not actually a customer of Apple's, you are a customer of BestBuy (or whoever) and if the order isn't right, it's the shops fault.

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Thorgryn
April 29, 2009 10:23 AM
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6 words:

OPEN THE BOX IN THE STORE

If you open it in front of them they can't give you any problem about you being the thief.

I also find it interesting that there were Chinese newspapers in the box along with the paving stone, aren't Macbooks made in China? I suspect someone has a nice shiny laptop in their hovel.

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CaptainSemantics
April 29, 2009 11:56 AM
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So I'm assuming that's why the brick was in the morning deals yesterday?

What a deal!

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Joseph F. Becker
April 29, 2009 12:08 PM
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Don't they open and configure Apple computers? I've gotten three Windows machines from Best Buy, in my time, and they opened them all and did their thing before I took them out.

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econobiker
April 29, 2009 4:23 PM
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@Joseph F. Becker: Did they charge an extra fee for that configuration?

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Squeezer99
April 29, 2009 12:24 PM
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lol thats a $.73 brick from home depot. i bought some a month ago for my yard

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JohnOB1
April 29, 2009 12:27 PM
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To be fair... it is a RedBrick PRO... Just saying.

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JohnDeere
April 29, 2009 12:31 PM
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if it looks like a mac, and tastes like a mac, it must be a mac.

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bohemian
April 29, 2009 12:42 PM
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Best Buy can waste customer time at checkout trying to upsell them magazines, internet access, collecting their phone number, receipt checking and useless extended warranties. They should be able to deal with the delay of opening boxes post purchase. It benefits the store and the customer. It mostly benefits the customer since Best Buy generally refuses to do the right thing when they sell someone crap.

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Kris Stavely
April 29, 2009 12:49 PM
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I had a similar experience with Best Buy and refused to shop there for years. Nothing sucks more than buying something, finding out there is nothing in the box, returning it only to be called a thief. I understand that there is a theft problem but in my case it was a 20 dollar network card, a jerk manager, and years of me going to Circuit City instead. Good luck...if I didn't get anywhere with a 20 dollar network card, this guy is gonna be my hero if he is able to get anything other than grief with a 2k laptop. My recommendation is to call the card company(if he used one) and the cops, let them duke it out.

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easy2panic
April 29, 2009 1:00 PM
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I bought a laptop from a Best Buy (in Texas too) yesterday. Before I left the store I opened it up at the security person's desk (the one between the entrance and exit). I suppose that is the only iron clad defence consumers can get.

On a kinda unrelated note, the security person was busy with his monitor because there was a group of people that he spotted as lookouts so they were trying to break that up.

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chenry
April 29, 2009 1:19 PM
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It's not really that nice of a brick either.

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e6matt
April 29, 2009 1:34 PM
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How much does a MacBook sized paver weigh? I think it weighs a lot more than a MacBook, and somebody along the way should have noticed they were carrying a CONCRETE PAVER inside a box instead of a laptop.

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zentex
April 29, 2009 1:42 PM
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I wonder what the quality of the brick is. It's not broken, and it does look quite nice.

Might be worth the $2K, I'd call it a wash ;-)

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quail
April 29, 2009 2:31 PM
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It's articles like this that have made me ask to open my new purchase(s) in front of store associates. Bought a camera. Opened it at the register in front of witnesses. Bought a DVD Player/Recorder. Opened it too in front of the check out lane in front of the cashier and a line of witnesses. Etc. Thanks, Consumerist. I'm now the paranoid shopper.

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Anonymous
April 29, 2009 2:32 PM
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Easy - tell the manager \"what would you rather I throw through your front window? This or a mac book?\"

and who the hell pays that for an apple paving stone - windows paving stones are 799. and do everything an apple paving stone can do.

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bigd7387
April 29, 2009 3:32 PM
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I was just in the Hospital for a week and one night while my Wife and myself went for a 45 minute walk $475 worth of my electronics was stolen, and I was in a private room. I know from where the items were placed that someone on the nurses staff stole the items but like the cop asked me, How can you prove it? The reason I bring this up is because these thefts are more and more in the news and it cannot be just someone trying to scam a store. But who is to really to blame? The stores are paying the employees next to nothing and treating them like there worthless so what reasons are left for them not to steal besides the moral issue. If we as a country started paying people to actually work then people would start to take ownership again in their jobs and actually care, you would still have some thefts but the fear of losing a good job for a couple hundred dollars would be in their mind plus more people would be willing to tell on what they've seen. I just hope something starts changing. I couldn't even turn the theft I had on my insurance since I have a $500 deductable so again the innocent pay the bill.

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econobiker
April 29, 2009 4:31 PM
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@bigd7387: It is the anonymous technology and companies liberal return policies that facilitate the scams. Years ago the store keeper knew his customers and looked at the goods upon return- that is if you were allowed to return at all. Now a $9 hour person with little knowledge of the products is processing a return for $100s maybe $1000s of dollars with the approval of a $14/hr \"floor manager\".


This is why the barcode switch and return scam is rampant also. The checkout person no longer has to know about the product - just process it over the scanner and take a payment method. An aquaintance of mine related that someone he knew was selling $200 gift cards for $100 cash- probably processed through a return scam. But the payoff for the gift card buyer/final user is so great it is difficult to discourage...

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Chumas
April 29, 2009 3:34 PM
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'd tk dffrnt pprch.
Tlk ncly t th gnrnt mn, pt my knf gnst hs stmch nd lt hm lk dwn t th 6 nchs f rzr bt t spll hs ft ss ll vr hs dsk.
thn sk hm f h s tllng th trth bt th mcbk.

Thn gn, prfr vlnc t wrtng CB's.

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chauncy that billups
April 29, 2009 5:03 PM
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@Chumas:
From what I can make out of this disemvoweled comment, it seems awesome.

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EdnaLegume
May 2, 2009 1:16 AM
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@bilups: I really wish we had the option to show original message.. kinda like the reviews on Amazon... figuring out a disemvowelment makes my eyes hurt.

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firestorm888
April 29, 2009 2:57 PM
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@Chumas: Hurm. You've been reading too much Wolverine. Just saying.

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tc4b
April 29, 2009 2:14 PM
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@Chumas: No idea why this post still has vowels in it.

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Goodnightbabytron
April 29, 2009 3:08 PM
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@tc4b: well, to be fair, it's not exactly vulgar or offensive. Really just amusing in its ridiculous way.

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tc4b
April 29, 2009 3:45 PM
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@Goodnightbabytron: I disagree; vulgarity is subjective, after all. I find the suggestion of stabbing someone over a retail dispute infinitely more vulgar than, say, the c-word, or any word you could name.

I wasn't offended, but honestly, is this what we do here in the consumerist comments? Is this YouTube now? The reason this is the only 'comments' section I visit on the entire web is because most of them are full of people like chumas, but this place seems to be just a little classier.

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ohnoes
April 29, 2009 11:54 AM
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@Chumas: Anyway, your pulling a knife will probably get your ass tased and thrown in jail, although I hope that if this sequence of events ever occurs you'll submit the story to the Consumerist.

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Goodnightbabytron
April 29, 2009 6:27 AM
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@Chumas: Your post has created in my mind precisely the impression of you that you were hoping it would. Really.

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Chumas
April 29, 2009 6:45 AM
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@Goodnightbabytron: If you mean someone who doesn't care if some fat ass pompous desk sitting piece of retail managements worst nightmare just got ripped off, I'm glad you agree.

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Goodnightbabytron
April 29, 2009 10:53 AM
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@Chumas: If you care what my impression was, it only confirms it.

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ohnoes
April 29, 2009 11:51 AM
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@Goodnightbabytron:

What'll you do when his management colleague points a shotgun to your head and asks you if YOU'RE telling the truth about the MacBook?

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mrsultana can't get a password to work
April 29, 2009 10:44 AM
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@Chumas: Please go get a retail job somewhere. Screwups happen all the time and you wouldn't want it taken out on you.
Why not just say that \"Keith\" should have taken out a reground, razor sharp boxcutter, held it against the OP's stomach, threatened him until he saw his own mortality, and got him to \"confess\" that he was trying to screw over Best Buy? How about waterboarding customers? Managers?
Jesus, get over your macho self and realize a couple of bucks ain't worth it!

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ceriphim
April 29, 2009 4:27 AM
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@Chumas: Careful, you know anything over a 3-inch blade counts as a concealed weapon, right?

And not to be pedantic but if you were pressing it against his stomach it probably wouldn't be his ass spilling all over the desk.

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Chumas
April 29, 2009 5:17 AM
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@ceriphim:
Concealed? I wear it strapped to my thigh and don't get hassled by the local cops. It's a heavy work knife that I had reground so it'd be razor sharp.

@redkamel
I have no more tolerance for petty morons who won't listen to reason. A little reminder of their mortality usually wakes them up.

@Mustybuckets
Long as it's not over a hundred, we always cool. :)

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deleteboy
April 29, 2009 2:52 PM
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@Chumas: Wow, Chumas. You may want to google \"Aggravated assault \" before you proceed.

Very vivid imagery tho! Fuck the man! Right on.

Seriously, tho, pulling a weapon where I live *will* get you tased right quick. You *will* win against the desk jockey (+100::: self pooping = hi-larious), lose against the county cops (-1000::: You'll wake up in the back seat of a police cruiser - taking the handcuffed limousine ride to county lock up).

Next time you're in OAKLAND, CALIFORNIA (home of the bodybag, according to Ice-T), tho - feel free to prove me wrong.

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MustyBuckets
April 29, 2009 4:12 AM
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@redkamel: I second that.
@Chumas: Hey, Chumas, we are cool, right?

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mikedt
April 29, 2009 3:49 PM
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Have we really reached the point that I have to open up every electronics box at the counter as soon as I pay for it? It certainly seems that way.

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The Marionette
April 29, 2009 4:07 PM
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Moral of the story, check stuff you buy from the store BEFORE you leave, but after you've paid for it. Anytime I make a purchase of something \"major\" (game systems, pc parts, etc) I always open the box first to make sure i got the right thing, even before this whole stuff started happening with like ps3s getting replaced with floor tiles and what not.

In fact, there was a time I got a shaver at walgreens, the box seemed kinda iffy and i noticed after i bought it but i hadn't left the store yet. So i open it and the shaver was pretty much shattered.

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Christy Casper
April 29, 2009 4:22 PM
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But if you give the employees a way to \"reseal\" the box or somehow mark it as \"not used\" then that's where they can put bricks in people's boxes without them knowing, as long as they think the customer wouldn't want to open it before leaving with it. Catch-22.

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Anonymous
April 29, 2009 4:30 PM
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I work at the store the gentlemen is talking about. He came in and purchased the item from one of my employees. I run the computer department at the store. We my employee grabbed the item out of the cage and turned it on the side to scan in the barcode nothing moved. He purchased the product and I believe in less than two hours he was trying to return it. The same employee that sold it and grabbed it out for him went to the front, lifted the box and it was almost twice as heavy as when he sold it. The guy tried to reseal the apple factory seal and return it. This is why we did not take the item back. This is why I am not a fan anymore of the consumerist. Posting stories with no regard for the truth.

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edrebber
April 29, 2009 5:30 PM
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@ZakariyyaFunguar: The seal had to be broken to open the box. Do you have a scale in the store to weigh the item? Please report the weight that you recorded when the item was sold versus when the item was returned.

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Clint Bradford
April 29, 2009 5:08 PM
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Speck Products already has a new protective case for this new model ....

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Anonymous
April 29, 2009 5:20 PM
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I think its easy to realize that this stuff happens for the obvious reasons. There's money to be made selling stolen electronics, especially high buck items.Its very easy to do also. Remove item, weigh it, and verify its working condition. Find something laying around thats close to that weight, duct tape some crap to it to even it out, and make it fit the box dimensions, and voila, you have yourself a $2,200 Red(mond) Brick Pro(state) model.

Seriously, gotta love these stories. I'm guessing there's a store within walking distance, that has patio blocks close enough to an employee can snag himself one, and voila, he's grot a fresh macbook.

The company has a helluva time figuring out where it came from unless they catch em red handed (I worked retail for long enough to see thieves in progress, and those not caught).

Basically, the best suggestion is that made many times.
Open it @ the store, and they can't claim you did the bait and switch. If they still give ya crap, call the CC company, and call the cops. Make the store deal with it at that point, you shouldn't have to.

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Anonymous
April 29, 2009 5:23 PM
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Another solution to this whole mess is to have a window where you can see the product, and include the weight of the product on the box as well. The cashier could throw it on a digital scale real quick, make sure the box weighs about right, do a visual check, and there ya go.

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edrebber
April 29, 2009 5:49 PM
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What would compel the manager to acknowledge that the customer never left the store? The manager is probably not even watching and the clerk could be in on the scam. Just call the store if it happens and they will let you know if you can return the item. If the store won't accept a return then initiate the charge back with your credit card company.

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tjjex
April 29, 2009 7:08 PM
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does anyone start to think that sometimes just sometimes the buyer is trying to scam the store of a new laptop... I mean he could have gotten it and said he didnt and trying to get another one...

not all buyers are saints you know

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Anonymous
April 29, 2009 7:31 PM
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I work for the french branch of Business Depot (the canadian Staples). We have the habit to open digital frames, cameras, game consoles, etc. in front of the consumer.The store tech will open the computers to see if everything is up and running and if no piece is missing or broken.Canada is great.

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Anthony Warburton
April 29, 2009 8:37 PM
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serves him right, when buying a big ticket item from a store always insist on opening it before you walk out of the store right at the cash register stand.

Also could have saved some tax money by getting it from amazon.com.

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Keter
April 29, 2009 8:38 PM
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Since this scam started, I've taken my intended purchase to an employee, told them I'm concerned about the scam, and ask them to open the box for me to confirm that it contains what it is supposed to. No one has turned me down yet, and that includes Best Buy employees. They all seem very familiar with the issue.

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TheUncleBob
April 30, 2009 12:00 AM
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@jswilson64: Unfortunately, no restocking fees at my place of business.

@Cyberxion101: Let's say you're in a situation where BestBuy (or similar store) does check every single return. How do you know the item wasn't switched by an employee working at the store? How do you know it wasn't switched at BestBuy's warehouse? The manufacturer's warehouse? At what point is it okay to call the customer a liar?

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mickey72
April 30, 2009 5:53 PM
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Back about 15 years ago we had a guy return a Packard Bell and the manager wouldn't give us time to come up and look it over before accepting it. After the customer was long gone we opened the case and he had switched the innards with his 486 Packard Bell. It booted up fine but it was a 486sx Packard Bell.

An unsavvy customer probably wouldn't have noticed unless it broke.

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Spammy Jones
May 1, 2009 11:53 AM
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Wow, that would really tick me off. Luckily you paid with a credit card and will get your money back either way. Had someone paid in cash, they would have a major problem. I have always made it a point to open the box in the store before I buy it, now I know why.

RT
www.anonymity.ru.tc

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anJenkins
May 1, 2009 12:13 PM
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I too am skeptical about this. Sounds like a scheme or a employee at Best Buy who wanted a MacBook Pro. I would not put it past some of the people Best Buy hires. I think you could eliminate this by having the buyer inspect the contents before leaving the store.

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Jon Valliere
May 1, 2009 12:34 PM
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There is a tamper proof sticker on the box.(it is not shrink wrapped like somebody said before) If you ever have the option of buying a Apple product from a Apple Store, do it. They will open the box right then and there if you wish and you are sure that #1 you don't get a returned item, #2 from factory to floor it hasn't been touched.

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Anonymous
May 1, 2009 12:49 PM
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I love some of the early suggestions that the proud owner of the brick is trying to scam the store. I ordered an MBP from Apple online. When it arrived I had a lovely brown box with what looked like a circa 1997 Compaq keyboard inside. Apple has a problem in their supply chain before product reach end points.

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SmritiPulvillus
May 1, 2009 1:16 PM
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Well you did buy it at a brick and mortar.

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Anonymous
May 1, 2009 2:45 PM
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Something just like this happened to me when I got an 5th Gen iPod for Christmas two or three years ago. When I opened the package on Christmas Day, were the iPod was supposed to be was this weird goo/paste. Called Best Buy, where it was bought, and Apple, and though I can't remember whether it was Best Buy or Apple who fixed it for me, within a couple of days I had a new iPod.

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Anonymous
May 1, 2009 4:00 PM
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I worked at a Staples oh about 10 years ago and was written up after a customer returned a zip drive with me (shrink wrapped) and another customer purchased it and found vhs tapes, random marble tiles and chess pieces inside it.

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Javier Alejandro Peralta
May 1, 2009 4:43 PM
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i agree with Corporate-Shill really im starting to think most people are beginning to lie about these

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Alberto Orsini
May 1, 2009 8:55 PM
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Maybe this should be discussed with apple:

When you buy big electronics such as video game consoles and PCs, generally the person that rings you up at the location (in this case BestBuy) has to scan the serial number of the actual item, visible through an opening in the package. I thought this was the case with Apple products as well, but I guess I am mistaken. This would resolve a lot of confusion, and would at least cease the physical scams.

Buying stuff online is a different story. For something as important, I'd rather drive to the store.

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Rogelio Hernandez
May 1, 2009 9:48 PM
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Sorry, I just don't buy it. How convenient that he comes home and finds a wrapped rock. It would be very easy for Best Buy to show that they sold a sealed box, all they need to do is look at their tapes.

Conversely, the guy who claims he bought a 2k brick, has no resource to show that this happened and that he is not just trying to get an extra free Mac Book.

Easy solution? After paying, open the box in the store.

This guy reminds me of an old lady, back when I was a delivery guy for a chicken joint. Every single time, she used to call my manager claiming there was stuff missing in her order, until my manager got sick of it and packed the thing himself... and she called again with the same claim so the manager called her on her bluff.

Difference here being this is a 2k chicken wing.

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Anonymous
May 2, 2009 3:59 AM
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I just cringe when I read about these things happeneing to people, especially best buy customers. It's like they truly know it's happening and they don't really care. Plus, have you ever tried to open a big purchase item like that before leaving the store? They make you look a damn fool with shameful looks, and it just gets uncomfortable. I say screw them, they deserve every piece of bad PR the internet gives them on sites like this from people like you and me.

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Joey Westerfield
May 2, 2009 4:09 AM
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Personally, I'm just kind of surprised. The typical Mac user wouldn't have been able to figure out the reason their computer wouldn't start.

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Trevor Morris
May 3, 2009 12:37 AM
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Just for the record, it is entirely possible and quite easy to open the thin boxes Apple ships notebooks in without breaking the seal or leaving any external signs of trauma and if your going to steal a computer what is some broken styrofoam?


I probably shouldn't share the technique

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fatal616
May 3, 2009 7:50 PM
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Best Buy SUCKS with this kind of stuff. I bought a $500 Wacom Tablet a few months ago. I get home and inside is a used old tablet. So i know there is gonna be a problem with this and i call corporate. I explain i just bought it a few hours earlier and just want to exchange it for a NEW one. They said theres nothing they can do. I said bullshit. I drove over to Best Buy, told the customer service people it didn't work and that i needed a new one. They DIDNT OPEN THE BOX and let me get a new one. I'm like what the hell? Why didn't i just put bricks in the box. i then emailed the corporate douches i spoke to and told them that a) i will never shop there again and b) their associates DO NOT check returns. So wow, big shock when we get BRICKS. ANy high price items i now open before i leave. Although I am sure they would still not take that back even tho it's all on camera. Assholes.

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Anonymous
May 3, 2009 11:59 PM
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I know personally two people who bought shrink rapped bricks from Best Buy last year and the last I heard had not gotten any satisfaction. I have never heard about any other electronics store having this problem, I would not buy anything from Best Buy unless they let me open the package in front of a store manager. If tye refuse, then no sale. I think the word should get out this so they either find a way to fix this problem or go the way of Circuit City.

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wellfleet
May 4, 2009 2:13 AM
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Real BBY conversation:

Our GM: So did you hear about that Rock thing?
Me: Yep
GM: So what would you do in this case?
Me: Umm, that's a tough one. It's so hard to tell when...
GM: Just take back the rock
Me: Take back a brick?
GM: Where do they even get huge bricks like that, I want some for my yard

Not all BBY managers are douche-y. We try to err on the side of the customer.

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wellfleet
May 5, 2009 1:39 AM
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To add to previous post, we have been hit with a theft ring that within 3 weeks crossed half the midwest, buying and exchanging large internal HDDs and replacing them with 10gb EIDE drives. They replicated the Seagate stickers, wrapper, and all the stickers on the inside of the unit. It wasn't until a customer came back with what was obviously not a 1TB HDD that we caught on. The level of sophistication it took for them to do this, we couldn't possibly tell, it looked completely untampered with.

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Joey Abernathy
May 10, 2009 1:48 PM
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I work in the computer department for Best Buy. Apple computers do come sealed with the same kind of tape xbox 360s and ps3s use. Its not something we can replicate. There is no shrink sealing at all. My geek squad does not even pre-package any of their services on them. Always look for best buy reseal tape. If that was the case the product was either returned or opened by BBY. Macs are always locked up and no floor employee can have access to them until the sale is made at the register. I sure hope this guy gets hit shit fixed :).

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