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I had the same thing happen to me a year ago. I got that error code and they told me it was due to hardware failure but it wasn't the same as the three red rings so I would be forking over 100 for fixing it. It was my launch 360 and it sucked.
I had the same thing happen to me a year ago. I got that error code and they told me it was due to hardware failure but it wasn't the same as the three red rings so I would be forking over 100 for fixing it. It was my launch 360 and it sucked.
Be prepared to replace your hard drive if you do send it in for repair. I had the same error (still under the 1 year warranty) and waited a month to get my xbox back, only to find out the hard drive was broken and I had another month till I could play.
You're lucky you got it back at all. They tell you in great big letters NOT TO SEND IN THE HDD.
If you didn't, not the HDD is not related to this error at all. If it broke you likely mishandled it during the time it was not connected.
As much as I can sympathize with the dude's frustration, what MS is doing isn't unreasonable. The RROD extension basically is more analogous to a recall, where one particular failure mode is warranted beyond the standard 1 year. His error, while still hardware, probably doesn't result from the same systemic manufacturing problem that causes the RROD error.
Does it suck? Yes. Is 1 year a ridiculously short warranty for these game consoles? Yes. Is MS in the wrong? Not really.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-65670-100x100.png\")
@JRB: I fully agree with you here. The RROD is a recall, they just wanted to take back systems as they would break. I'm personally on my 4th Xbox 360 (first one was an actual defect, but the last three all had the RROD).
But your comment for 1 year being a short warranty, I actually disagree on to that. I'm surprised its one year. Consoles used to only have a 90 day warranty. Computers today don't always even come with a one year warranty and consoles are just specialized computers.
Hopefully the console was purchased with a credit card so that they have doubled their warranty. Not only that, if it is broken, they'd probably get to keep the broken Xbox and can play around with it and might possibly end up with two.
@wooster11: Credit card companies generally don't pay out extended warranty refunds until they receive the broken item.
Also, I don't understand people ignoring the extended warranty service that you can purchase through Microsoft. It's not a lot, I think it was something like $50 for an extra 3 years, and it covers just about everything.
Considering the fail rate, $50 for 3 years of warranty safety is worth it to me.
I convinced them, wasn't even hard either. Im almost positive its all in who you get. I have twice already gotten my wifes machine covered under the RRoD replacement, despite the first time it being a drive failure and not a RRoD.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-291935-100x100.png\")
@Jim Topoleski: Agreed. I had a video problem (no video output, only sound). During the time I was trying to troubleshoot it, I got the RROD a couple of times, then I couldn't reproduce it again. I called and said I was getting \"intermittent\" RROD and this video problem. They sent me a box, I sent them my 360, and got it back (fixed) shortly thereafter.
@SharmilaNimrah: No, that is a far leap. Those error lights are for THEIR use, not yours. Error codes are not for the end user, they are for quick failure analysis. They're not just decoration. A company would have to be literally insane to do what you proposed.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-257705-100x100.png\")
Another possible suggestion is to make it red ring so they take it back. If you wrap it in a towel and put it somewhere small it will overheat, which is the general consensus as to what causes the RROD. Then it will be covered and free and they'll more than likely send you a different unit.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-548699-100x100.png\")
@crabbyman6: Hah, I just logged in to post this very thing. From what I've heard, one of the main issues is with the solder coming loose from thermal expansion. Wrapping it in a towel will cause it to overheat and break the solder points, causing the RROD failure(I've also heard reports of doing this to fix RROD problems). The problem is, it sounds like they have a newer revision console that might not have the same issues.
Oh, another problem is that it is sort of committing fraud. Then again, it seems unreasonable that they break so much. I've still got an SNES from around 15 years ago that works. I'm sure many other people do as well. I know moving parts decreases the lifetime of hardware, but these issues don't seem to stem from any of the moving parts (hard drive, fans, or disc drive), they seem to be related to PCB components.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-78045-100x100.png\")
This is no different from having a car break on you, hoping it was due to a recalled part, but it's not. You don't really expect them to fix your problem because there's a know issue somewhere else, do you? MS was explicit - only the 3 RROD is covered by the 3 year warranty. Your blaming MS customer support for following their rules?
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-11194-100x100.png\")
@Deezul_AwT: I think that there is a general misunderstanding regarding the RROD. A lot of people don't know what causes it and due to its name, any error that causes any part of the \"ring\" to glow red can seem like a \"red ring of death.\"
Also, it isn't general knowledge that only the RROD was extended 3 years. There's a lot of confusion out there about this stuff, which isn't all Microsoft's fault, but it's also not the consumer's fault entirely.
The first Xbox sucked. That's why I never even considered purchasing a 360. I'm really glad I didn't buy one to have to go through this.
What happened to the good old consoles? My NES still works and I think I bought that in like 1986. (Okay, my mom bought it, I was 5.)
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-524697-100x100.png\")
@samurailynn: On no level did the first Xbox Suck.... in fact it's still one of the most reliable game systems around and an excellent media extender. But please... tell me why you think it sucked?
@Dethzilla: Every game I played on the Xbox hung often and crashed often. I guess you could blame the maker of the games for writing poor software, but the fact that it happened with a lot of different games made by different companies seems to me that it might have had a little to do with the system. It usually happened after I'd been playing for an hour or more, so maybe it was an overheating issue. Maybe I should have tried to get the thing repaired or something, but it wasn't really worth it to me. (The system was a hand-me-down because my father-in-law wanted to try Halo but it made him dizzy, so he gave us the system. And before you say \"Oh, so it was second hand\" I know my FIL only played it a couple of times and took good care of it.)
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-390449-100x100.png\")
@samurailynn: So because you had one xbox that was sort of a lemon the xbox and the xbox 360 (an entirely different product including fundamental design) must suck....got it.
Never mind that there is all kinds of issues people had with the PS2's DVD laser and getting \"Disc read errors\".
All products have lemons, and individual experience especially with only one unit isn't enough to damn an entire product.
That is as bad as the people on the car articles saying they had a gm car and a Toyota and the Toyota sucked so therefore Toyota makes bad cars despite huge surveys and analysis finding the opposite.
@Dethzilla: Agree with Dethzilla, The original xbox was the best of its generation hardware wise, the PS2 can only be considered better due to the sheer volume of games.
Also what the hell are people doing to their mouses and keyboards. I have a Microsoft mouse and keyboard and have had both for a long time now and both still work great.
@xkevin: I've never had a Microsoft keyboard last longer than 6 months (and I've been through 3 of the suckers). They are utter crap.
@chris_l: Eh, I really can't agree with you on the Wii. Sure, Wii Sports is total crap, as are all the other shovelware minigame collections, but every console has its fair share of bullshit titles. Mario Galaxy, Zelda, Smash Bros. Brawl, and No More Heroes were all awesome, and Mad World looks like it's going to be fun too. Plus, I cracked mine for homebrew, and the Wiimote is ideal for the old LucasArts adventure games.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-363287-100x100.png\")
@HeartBurnKid, creepy morbid freak: I've never had a Microsoft keyboard last longer than 6 months (and I've been through 3 of the suckers). They are utter crap.
And they don't always completely stop working. Horrible lag, dropped keystrokes, etc., within a foot of the receiver. I've had far more returns on MS keyboards than anything else, ever. Kudos to their desktop mice for being decisive. They just die.
Check Amazon reviews for kicks. (OTOH their notebook mice seem very reliable - knocking on wood)
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-570476-100x100.png\")
@legwork: My wife's wireless Microsoft optical mouse has been getting finicky. I have a feeling it's a loose connection inside the mouse somewhere, because it works fine after a smack or two. That, and the range on it kinda sucks, unless your line of sight is totally clear. Even just having a desk in the way can kill the connection.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-759405-100x100.png\")
@PirateCaptain_GitEmSteveDave:
Ahh yes, the Big Breath of Life. I used that many times myself. Not on the NES but the Genesis.
Likewise, I still have my working Sega Genesis AND 32X with close to 100 working games.
I love it :)
Its been like that for awhile. I've had two friends get other error messages then rrod it with the towel and call them then and get a new one.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-121697-100x100.png\")
Just send it in anyway saying that it's a 3-ring problem. I had the same 1-ring E74 error and I said it was 3-ring and they fixed it for free.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-338647-100x100.png\")
@einstoch: When you request a 3 red lights repair, you have to agree to their repair policy that states if they cannot duplicate the 3 red lights problem, they will not fix it. They are supposed to call or email you in that case to inform you of the costs of the repair before going any further.
If you claim 3 red lights, the worst off you might be is shipping cost. You could try stating that the problem is intermittent. Of course, claiming that your repair falls under the extended warranty terms is still dishonest and I hope you are a decent enough consumer to avoid knowingly taking advantage of a company.
/steps off of soap box
Microsoft is completely within their rights at this point. They had specified that the three-year extended warranty is essentially the equivalent to a recall on a known issue - if it's something different, why would they need to step outside the bounds of what is all ready a huge customer opportunity?
I echo odhen on this one - it's why I don't own a 360. It shouldn't be a 'rite of passage' to have it break on you.
If one were inclined to be suspicious, its not a far leap to wonder if MS jiggered the fault coding so that a random number of lights go off for the RROD problem, thus cutting their expenses drastically.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-87429-100x100.png\")
A friend of mine had his fixed and he had a graphics problem. I think he just told them it was the 3 RROD, and they fixed it.
This is the one and only reason I advocate buying Best Buy's \"extended warranty.\" I had this problem on two seperate 360's and a trip to Best Buy, no questions asked, brand new 360.
I'm sure my luck will run out eventually, my current extension goes until August of 2010...
Maybe I'll drop it, get a new one, and put a new extension on it ....
@flyboyJ: I've been told by a Sam's Club employee that members are warrantied on electronics purchases (including consoles) for as long as they are members. That is basically $40 a year for warranty on all of your electronics that you get there (I'd bet a Best Buy 3 year warranty runs more than $120 for a TV, PS3, or 360). I've heard similar things about Costco that are probably worth investigating if you are against shopping at Walmart-owned stores.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-738213-100x100.png\")
Reminds me of the Star Trek TNG episode where Picard is tortured:
THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!!!
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-441052-100x100.png\")
I had a problem where my games would freeze after a few minutes of play. Since it wasn't 3-ring, Microsoft wouldn't fix it without me paying $99.
So, I sold it to Gamestop and got a decent amount back. They couldn't tell it wasn't working right because the games play fine at first.
I kept my old hard drive, bought a XBOX Arcade, and everything was fine. Gave me a new warranty to work off of too, just in case.
@SahuaritaSam: So what you're saying is that you sold your broken Xbox to a store that will likely sell it to someone else?
Aren't you a fantastic human being.
@SahuaritaSam: Gamestop usually has a good policy about returning used/refurbished machines that don't work. However, I was on the receiving end of this once with a PS2, and it is a really crappy thing to do to someone.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-776577-100x100.png\")
@parkavery: I wouldn't recommend buying a used 360 in the first place, but if you're going that route, Gamestop offers a replacement guarantee on the cheap which allows you to bring it back and get a replacement unit should it die within a year. And while I frankly wouldn't bother with the replacement plan otherwise, this is the one case in which buying one is definitely to your advantage. But only if you're already making the mistake of buying a used 360 in the first place.
I learned this the hard way. Silly me for thinking refurbished meant repaired, when what it likely meant was that they probably shot some compressed air in the vents (Not a good thing...) and whiped the case off with a damp cloth to make it more presentable.
Two months after buying the thing, it died on me. I was able to sell it back to them in order to recoup some of the cost, but only at a quarter of what I paid for it. Suffice it to say that if I had known then what I know now, I would have ponied up the extra cash for the replacement plan.
Lesson learned.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-33580-100x100.png\")
E74 is a video card error. You may have seen little red blips before you turned your console off? Looked like thick red matrix style pixels down the screen.
It most definitely is not covered under the RROD extended warantee because it is not caused by overheating. I have not heard of any outpouring of users getting this specific error but everyone had to pay the $99. Hey with that $99 you get a new 1 year warantee.
Either pay up the $99 get a repaired [not replaced] console with a new year warantee or buy a new arcade 360 for $200 [but then again you get the Jasper console if you didn't have it already].
Good luck to the OP getting it sorted out.
@outinthedark: RRoD isn't caused by overheating either. It's a general hardware problem due to faulty components and manufacturing. If it was as simple an issue as heat, you could attach a Nyko USB fan unit (or some other type of additional cooling) and probably be OK.
Of course, if the X360 were any louder, I'd probably go deaf. Loudest. Optical Drive. Ever.
@ludwigk: Actually it is an overheating issue but it's due to faulty manufacturing - not faulty components. The console would get so hot if not ventilated well enough that the solder on some of the components would melt and become disconnected.
Attaching those fan units are problematic because they don't plug into the USB port but rather the power port of the Xbox, taking using power from the power supply. That can lead to other kinds of issues that could literally now cause your components to break.
I'm not sure how I feel about this, but I know a few people that had this situation.
Their solution was to take the 360, wrap it in a towel, turn it on and let it overheat until they got the RROD.
I'm also not sure how much testing they do when they get a defective console back.
When my console starting getting the RROD, it would only do so after about 1 1/2 hours of playing. I sent it in worried that they wouldn't test it long enough, and would tell me it was fine. Well, I got notice that they had received the console, and about half an hour later they told me they were shipping a replacement, which leads me to wonder whether they tested it at all.
Maybe its worth sending it in saying it is getting 3 red lights, and see if they correct you? Worst case is you have to pay for the repair that you have to pay for anyways?
@Jeff Newman:
I did this as well and it only lasted a couple of play times before it died again, however I know people who have gotten it working with this trick for a long amount of time.
After all the issues the XBox has had I would have just lied and put the typical RROD issue and sent it in and fought with them from there. I bet you'd of won the dispute.
My 360 started freezing constantly, but no red lights. Instead of going through the repair process, which would have left me unable to play anything for weeks, and still cost me $99, I went out and bought a new Arcade unit, which had just been price-dropped to $200.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-5535-100x100.png\")
He can always do what I did when I had the EXACT same issue. Here is a transcript:
Me: My Xbox has 1 flashing red light. Is that covered for free?
Support: No, if it was 3 flashing red lights then it would be covered, but 1 light is not covered. It will cost $99.
Me: Oh...well, it's 3 flashing red lights, so that will be covered right?
Support: Yes, 3 lights is covered.
2 weeks later I have a working Xbox for no charge.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-808583-100x100.png\")
@Konman72:
Awesome, so it sounds like the fix for both issues are the same, and they don't even turn it on to test them. So they get it thinking it's RROD 3 lights, put in a new hard drive and send it back without even knowing.
@IT-Chick:
No they check it. My brother tried the exact same thing on the exact same error, 2nd xbox to go to it, and they phoned him back saying that he either had to pay them the $100 or fork over money for shipping to send it back to him because he had deceived them about the error.
@IT-Chick: It is probably the case that they don't repro the issue every time, or don't have the resources to repro it. Perhaps the customer sees the issue after 6 hours of halo. They can't be buggered to do that.
At a former support job I had, there were certain customer key words such as \"smoking\", \"sparking\", \"flaming\", and \"burnt\", which if we heard them, we *HAD* to get the customer to disconnect the device, remove battery, and consent to a device capture before we could let them off the phone. They also received over-night replacements etc, but M$ could have a similar policy, since the RRoD is so frequent.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-307161-100x100.png\")
@SahuaritaSam Thanks for pawning your problem off to someone else.
Yeah, I was going to say that it seems a little dishonest selling a defective unit to someone else, even if it is Gamestop. =/
@CubeRat88: Gamestop takes defective units all the time. They send them somewhere to be \"Refurbished\" then they sell them at a premium. Something like 20 dollars more than a non-refurbished system.
The only issue here is that he didn't tell them it was defective, and got more in trade-in credit than he should have.
Well that and some poor soul may have bought it without buying the Replacement plan, something that is just good policy if you're going to buy any used system from them, much less a 360.
But with all due respect, MS did fix this problem. Granted, it only took them 3 FUCKING YEARS, but they did it.
I've owned 2 Wiis (sold them both because they're glorified board games) and currently own a 360 and PS3. The 360 is my gaming console and the PS3 is my Blu-Ray player. While you can tell MS wasn't a HW company, you can tell Sony isn't a software company. I don't want to turn this into a flame war, but it's a shame they couldn't combine the software functionality of the 360 with the hardware of the PS3.
I'm waiting for my 360's DVD drive to eat up a game one day, because that's what it sounds like it is trying to do.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-203062-100x100.png\")
I got E74 1 REd light 2 weeks ago. Luckily I was under warranty still and they fixed it. The GPU died in it.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-545239-100x100.png\")
I find it a little disconcerting that a lot of people are suggesting that the OP should defraud Microsoft by overheating his system on purpose. If a company was found to be intentionally defrauding customers, everyone would be up in arms about it, but it's OK for a consumer to do it?
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-345033-100x100.png\")
@squinko: Is it fraud if you drive your car down a gravel road because there's a recall on the shocks? I don't think so. It would be fraud if you tried to claim the 3 light warranty when you didn't have 3 lights, but I don't see a problem with claiming the 3 light warranty when the console does indeed have 3 lights, no matter what you did to get them.
@AirIntake: Your analogy does not work at all. There's nothing wrong with using an item for it's intended purpose (such as driving your car), and if it breaks then you should have it repaired. What is wrong is _purposely_ harming an item so you can get it covered under a warranty that normally wouldn't apply to you. And if you notice, there are several posters who are saying the OP should say they have have the 3 rings (even though they don't) to get it fixed anyway, which according to you is fraud.
Either way, I find it odd that people are suggesting ripping off the company, no matter the method that is used.
@squinko: Purposely harming the xbox outside of its intended purpose would be hitting it with a hammer or submerging it in the bathtub, or poking internal components with a screwdriver. Using the xbox as a game system in a harsher environment than normal is still using it for its intended purpose.
Either way, I find it odd that you are alright with a company ripping people off by knowingly selling faulty hardware @ $299 a pop, but are uneasy with people doing what they can just to get a working product that they already paid for.
@AirIntake: I never once said I was alright with a company ripping people off. I'm not alright with anyone ripping anyone else off, whether it's the customer or the company doing it. My original point was that I think it's sad that people rip apart a company for defrauding customers, but then openly advocate doing the same thing to a company.
I like how you're using corporate speak (\"harsher environment than normal\") to try and cover up the fact that it's intentional misuse. You would never wrap a towel around a console for any reason, other than to break it. I don't agree with Microsoft on this issue, but I also don't agree with the people telling the OP to defraud them. You have missed the entire point of my posts.
@squinko: Because for all purposes thats EXACTLY what Microsoft did. The Xbox 360 has some major know issues on it, and not just reported issues but leaked internal Microsoft memos ADMITTING there are known issues with it because it was rushed out to beat the Wii and Playstation 3.
The only reason the 3 year RRoD warrantee exists is because of those leaked memos, but on top of that there are Power Brick issues, GPU issues, and disk drive issues to contend with that caused the system to fail within a year until they where mostly corrected with the recent versions.
But Microsoft wont admit to the other issues, and even their RRoD service has gone from being easy to take care of to the point they wont even send you a box anymore, you have to find one and attach a sticker to the thing to send it back and it can take up to a month or longer that your now out a system.
So while it is kinda defrauding them in a way, the truth is they did it first.
And just so you know, the towel trick doesn't work with the new system, only the ones that would have failed anyway as the RRoD was a overheating problem. So its a bad machine in the first place if it works.
@Jim Topoleski: Amen Jim. Amen.
The thing is, despite the incremental improvements that were made to recent hardware revisions, the things still fail left and right. They're not doing enough to ensure that the problems they knowingly shipped these things out with at launch have been dealt with to any satisfying degree even now!
So yeah, that they'd split hairs over hardware failures when they were aware of them and haven't done much to do away with them is reason enough that I can't see acting all high and mighty when people have to engage in a little deception to get Microsoft to do what they're supposed to.
Was that a run-on sentence?
@squinko: Honestly in this case and in mine (where I simply lied) it is in Microsoft's best interest. It is a widely known fact that they make little to no profit off of the system and a huge profit on games and accessories. I purchase tons of games and accessories. I was not going to pay for the repair at all, I would have just went without a 360. So for them to fix the system at little to no cost to themselves ended up making them a much larger amount of money in the long run wehn I bought Halo 3, GTA4, Gears 2, Halo Wars, RE5, Bioshock etc.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-16563-100x100.png\")
\"3 red lights means life after death.
1 red light means eternal darkness and damnation.\"
Uncomfortable pause.
(Clear throat sound).
(Take deep breath)
...Roxaaaaaaaane...
Yeah. That just happened with my Xbox, for the second time, and this one was out of warranty. They said the say thing, that I would have to shell out $100 to have it fixed. I said screw that, sold ALL of my 360 gear and bought a PS3. They are done taking my money for hardware that fails this frequently.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-6302-100x100.png\")
I'm sure many of us have computer equipment laying around that is more than 3 years old. The laptop I use regularly was built in like 2001. What is so special about this game console that makes it only work for a year or two? I don't know much about them, but does it even have moving parts? What could possibly go wrong with a bunch of circuit boards?
Just keep doing things to it until it gets a RRoD. Dishonest I guess, but if it gets you a free repair, it gets you a free repair.
For that matter, this is why when people ask me about buying an Xbox 360, I tell them, \"Buy it at Best Buy, and spend the extra $40 on the three or four year extended warranty.\"
This way, ANY issue you have with the 360, you just take it back to Best Buy, and they give you a new one, no muss, no fuss.
With Microsoft, you'll be waiting a month to get it back. I'm not kidding. All of my friends who've had to send in their system have waited at least 3 to 5 weeks to get it back.
I will say that the level of hardware failure the 360 is having is ludicrous. I read somewhere that the reason is Microsoft didn't properly conduct hardware testing in the final stages of development. Normally companies test 1 million units for defect rates, but apparently Microsoft only tested somewhere around 300,000 units. This was because they wanted to get to market a full year ahead of Sony and Nintendo.
Sadly, Sony is apparently starting to have their own issues, being dubbed the Yellow Light of death, which pertains to the Blu-ray laser assembly in the system.
\"Another possible suggestion is to make it red ring so they take it back.\"
This is quite unethical. I'm shocked that the Consumerist would even allow a comment that advocates this type of action.
It also probably won't fix the guy's problem. 1 ring and 3 ring are caused by different issues. They'll fix the 3 ring issue for free, but he'd still have to pay to have the other issue fixed.
He should first determine what the actual issue is. See here: [www.llamma.com]
It's probably the DVD drive.
@I_am_Awesome: Hey man, so what if it's unethical, so is selling broken equipment en masse.
Fight fire with fire.
@I_am_Awesome: I'm shocked that as a regular poster, you would advocate deletion of posts you dont' agree with.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-22777-100x100.png\")
\"Another possible suggestion is to make it red ring so they take it back. If you wrap it in a towel and put it somewhere small it will overheat, which is the general consensus as to what causes the RROD. Then it will be covered and free and they'll more than likely send you a different unit.\"
Yes. The problem, from what I've read, causes the thermal paste to break up and not transfer heat from the CPU to the heat sink anymore (at least in the little gaps that need it). Wrapping a towel around the system would cause the problem rapidly, though I question the morality of that.
\"The first Xbox sucked. That's why I never even considered purchasing a 360. I'm really glad I didn't buy one to have to go through this.
What happened to the good old consoles? My NES still works and I think I bought that in like 1986. (Okay, my mom bought it, I was 5.)\"
Apples to oranges. The original NES had it's own problems (the contacts die after a time, this is well documented). Also, when there are fewer moving parts and more sensitive transistors, you have more problems.
That said, the original XBox had very few problems. There was a recall of the power cable that affected something like .014% of all owners, and otherwise no overarching problems. Maybe you're thinking of the PSX and PS2?
I love me some video games, but I am passing on the current generation of consoles (though I do have a PSP).
The Xbox 360 is a pathetically unreliable piece of junk. Only video game addicts would put up with this outrageously high failure rate.
The Wii doesn't do it for me -- I want better graphics, and I'm fine with conventional PlayStation-type controllers.
The PS3 would be my choice -- if it were priced under $300 and came with a rumble controller in the box. I don't care about blu-ray, and I don't care about online gaming. I just want an advanced game console to replace my PS2.
It's unfortunate that Sony put corporate synergy (selling movies) above the wishes of the gaming public...
@jpdanzig:
All models of the PS3 in current production come with DualShock 3 (i.e. rumble) controllers.
squinko 11:26 AM I find it a little disconcerting that a lot of people are suggesting that the OP should defraud Microsoft by overheating his system on purpose. If a company was found to be intentionally defrauding customers, everyone would be up in arms about it, but it's OK for a consumer to do it?
Get over it! Its 100% their fault we have so many failures. I hope they have to pay out of their ass. Maybe they have learned their lesson and the next one will be free from failures of this scale. By the way I have 4 Xbox 360 and have had 0 failures so far. But I know every time I turn it on there is a chance it will fail.
@yzerman: Wow, what a steal! He already paid for his system, and there's a little paper inside the box that would allow him to pay even more for protection against errors that Microsoft knew existed, but decided to ignore in favor of beating its competition to market. Sweet!
Dude should totally have gotten in on that.
When you bought your Xbox 360, There is a paper inside it where for 30 days you can by a extended warranty to cover the more rare issues like this.
Unfortunately you rolled the dice and lost.
It's like complaining your house burnt down, you didn't buy insurance and you want the insurance company to come fix your home for free.
Sorry man after one year your on your own. This is the issue with complex electronic purchases.in todays day and age.
@yzerman: the GPU issue hes reporting has been known for AS long as the RRoD issue and drive issue.
All three are known issues from day one and all three fail almost at the same pace. My original pre replacement 360 got the drive issue THEN the RRoD on the SAME MACHINE.
So Microsoft owes people on this one. They weaseled out of fixing two of the issues when for all purposes Microsoft should be replacing the whole machine for those people who bought it the first 2 years.
@yzerman: I wouldn't call the E74 issue 'rare'. It is the second most common failure with the 360. It might not be covered under the red-ring extended warranty, but if Microsoft actually stood by their products it should be.
Not that it doesn't suck when costly hardware breaks and the customer has to pay to have it repaired, but this distinction between RROD (covered for 3 years) and the $99 fee for other repairs has been pretty well covered by various gaming-related sites.Still not fun. I know I wasn't thrilled when it cost me $99 to fix mine, but better that than the full cost to replace an elite.
You mean like MS defrauded us with the crap console? I see no problem whatsoever in 'playing' Microsoft's game by forcing 3 rings. They are the ones that knowingly released a faulty console to gain market share. So the more pain they feel the better.
Perhaps they will better test the next box so that these problems are not part of the Xbox 'experience'. You certainly dont face these issues with Sony, my PS3 has run without a SINGLE issue from day one.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-325573-100x100.png\")
I thought that this was a well known warranty exception? It says right on the website that only 3 red rings is covered for the additional warranty. I just this weekend went out and bought another Xbox 360 because of the E 74 error. I contemplated overheating my Xbox 360 to get it fixed but I set it up for repair and am trying it out to see if they will fix it anyway. I have manually fixed my Xbox once before by pulling it apart and re-applying thermal paste. It worked for a long time, over a year before the GPU just simply went out on it.
It's nice enough of Microsoft to extend a warranty to customers for the 3 red rings, they do not have to do it, they just do it to save face. Bad design issues or not they do not have to cover it.
The fix is simple, and I'm pretty sure most people can do it, there are many guides online that walk you through picture by picture, step by step, it costs about $15 and usually works. The warranty that you have is already expired so you won't lose anything. Plus if you really wanted to, you could heat the Microsoft sticker with a hair dryer and then put a knife behind it, slide behind it and it should come off without ruining the sticker.
I paid $400 for my Pro system back in November of 06, I own over 50 Xbox 360 games, 4 wireless controllers, 120 GB HDD, 3 headsets (1 wireless) and many many TV shows and arcade games downloaded. Just because you feel like you are getting the shaft on the warranty, you are not the only one. A new Arcade is only $200, and you get an additional controller and Sega Superstars Tennis(sigh). With you saying you have put a good amount of money into your set up, I think you could afford to buy a new one. You may not feel like you have to, I didn't but shit happens. Stuff breaks.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-35418-100x100.png\")
Frustratingly enough, the same issue happened with my 360, and about a week after the included 1 year warranty expired. So I was basically forced to pay Microsoft an additional $100 for shipping and another whole year of warranty coverage! WOO!
I believe that once I get a PS3, I'll be buying all cross-console releases on that machine instead.
This is one reason to buy a Best Buy replacement plan, I guess.
just lie and tell em it was an RROD, they arent going to check! they just ship you a new (refurb) box!
the truth will set you free, but lies will get your further.... you will get more, fuck the ethics, they obviously don't care about ethics....they care about PROFIT
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-871030-100x100.png\")
The XBox 360 is a piece of crap. An expensive piece of crap.
I had the exact same thing happen. Actually, I had it worse. When they returned my fixed xbox, it immediately RRODd. They fixed it again for free. I tried to get them to credit back the $100 because they BROKE my xbox, but they wouldn't and I couldn't seem to escalate.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-42395-100x100.png\")
Most people I know just say \"I got the 3 Red Rings\" regardless of whether they have them or not. I've never heard of them rejecting the repair midway.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-100599-100x100.png\")
Good luck with this, I just went through this whole process and it ended up being a 2 month headache. I decided to go with my credit card extended warranty and that's where the headache began. They wanted me to find someone locally to fix it for a full parts & labor quote (impossible), I had to EECB the warranty company and Microsoft to get them to agree to pay for Microsoft to repair it based upon Microsoft's flat rate and no quote. Then, the credit card warranty company said that I had to make Microsoft agree to either repair my unit or send back my broken unit to me, so they would then issue me a full refund and I would get to purchase a brand new 360, Microsoft agreed to this stipulation. Then, of course, they didn't, and ended up just sending me a refurbished unit, then I had to raise hell again, have 3way conference calls with Microsoft and the warranty company asking them to pay the repair, even though Microsoft messed up. Finally, shockingly, they agreed to pay the claim, except taking off $10 for shipping costs, but the whole process for me started on Jan 18th and I just got my check from the warranty company on Saturday, March 7th. I'm still really pissed at Microsoft because I would have gotten a brand new 360 if they had followed the agreement but now I'm stuck with a refurbished unit but happy to have the whole process over with.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-391270-100x100.png\")
Microsoft isn't really at fault here. It's fairly common knowledge that the 3 year warranty only covers the RRoD. If I recall correctly, you can buy an extended warranty that covers everything else. Given the relatively high failure rate of the 360, not to mention the high price of consoles in general, that would be a wise investment.
Though there are reports of them fixing it regardless. So it probably depends on who you get.
@Dyscord: Yes. They are at fault. They released a system onto the market that has an abysmal failure rate, and did so knowingly. They KNEW that it was shoddy equipment and they still put it out their to beat their competitors to market.
So yeah, it's their fault. But then we keep buying these things, so maybe it's on us for being so damned stupid.
That said, I think that in light of our collective inability to tell Microsoft to shove it, Microsoft ought to return our continued interest in their shitty system with some good faith of their own. They ought to stop making distinctions between system failures and fix them all seeing as it's their fault the things fuck up so frequently, and they ought to get to work making a revision of the hardware that doesn't break if you breath on it.
My 360 broke down for no reason (graphics card crapped out), but no red rings. Hum. So, I emailed Microsoft saying that I did get the 3 red rings, but i didn't on subsequent attempts of turning it on.
Needless to say, I got a free repair. I wouldnt have minded paying for the repair had it been my fault, but its a bit unfair having to pay seeing as they're all inherently defective to begin with.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-4587-100x100.png\")
Microsoft shouldn't sell hulking piles of crap. If they want people to continue to buy their games and accessories, it's in their best interest to keep the consoles in working order.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-159004-100x100.png\")
The 3 red lights is a heating issue usually, and is possible to fix yourself, but not recommended for the faint of heart.
Like an above poster said, I don't see why you couldn't report it as a 3RROD and send it in for free and hope.
From my experience they don't do a whole lot of troubleshooting with problems like this, just replace, repair, reship.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-125743-100x100.png\")
I got a classic 3-red-light red ring error on my launch-day 360 last week. Fortunately, I knew about the extra warranty protection! Unfortunately, launch day was November 22, 2005. That's 3 years, 3 months, & 16 days ago today. Hard to believe it's really been more than 3 years, but it has.
Microsoft wanted $120 to fix my RROD issue. That wasn't really worth it, because Gamestop was offering $65 last week for red-ringed 360's and I could just get a new Arcade unit with HDMI & built-in memory for close to the same price.
I almost gave up and shelled out my cash to the evil overlords, but then I stumbled across this method, and decided to try it:
For $12 in parts & tools from my local hardware store, I was able to repair my XBox 360 from 3-red-lights to fully functional again in about 90 minutes. It now works like a champ, I left it running for 24 hours without issue to make sure it burned in correctly.
I can't guarantee this will solve all your problems, and it's definitely a last-ditch fix for those who are no longer covered by warranty, but it worked for me.
I had this just happen to a friend of mine last week, and he was pissed. To make matter worse is that he works for MS, but you think that'd help? Uh, uh.
I am a loyal 360 player and am apalled at how shoddy the hardware seems to be, and that only the most eggregious of issues are fixed by MS under warranty despite the actual defect list being much longer.
As other may have said there are ways to intentionally bring about the RROD. I always thought doing this was shady until I realized the other side is just as shady.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-207322-100x100.png\")
I had a similar issue, and my console eventually got the three red rings. My friend had an issue like that and, lacking my job-like patience, decided to pay the $100 to fix his issue. He ended up getting a different unit back and a new warranty on the system he received.
I'd have a hard time paying $100 to fix my old xbox when I see deals for the xbox arcade for $150 on a daily basis.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-485737-100x100.png\")
It's not unheard of for the console to have one light failures, and what other people have said is true, the 3 year extended warranty is to specifically address the problem that causes the 3 light failure, much like a recall would. The way microsoft sees it is that they originally offered a 1 year warranty, and for all failures other than the 3 light failure, that 1 year warranty holds. The original poster is wrong for thinking otherwise. The original poster is also omitting the fact that the repair service fee includes a 1 year warranty on the repaired console. Granted it isn't complete satisfaction, but those are the facts I researched before I bought my console.
Also, someone commented that microsoft no longer sends out repair shipping boxes, which is not true. They probably read that article here on the consumerist, but didn't catch the update saying that it was a misunderstanding and that you can *either* provide your own packing materials and ship your box out right away, *or* wait for them to ship a box to you. I'd have replied to that comment directly, but for some reason that button hasn't been working for me.
One thing I can say about Best Buy... they are actually great with the warranty on 360s. I purchased the warranty when I bought mine in January 2007, RROD twice, in and out of Best Buy in 10 minutes both times with a working console.
I never wanted to rely solely on the manufacturer's warranty and it worked out well.
Is there a number to get an American/English speaking Xbox support rep?
@HeyApples: If you are able to get to a supervisor, they are usually in America. I've always dealt with American workers, no matter the number I call. But I haven't had to call in about a year, so maybe things have changed since then...
The 3 Red Rings are generally caused by the CPU working itself out of its socket by way of thermal expansion and contraction, which happens because of manufacturing defects.
The E74 error is generally caused by exactly the same process happening to the GPU rather than the CPU.
Of course, this is information I gleaned from third parties, Microsoft has yet to officially say what causes what errors. As I recall, Microsoft's official stance on the RRoD is that it is caused by a \"variety of problems.\"
Now, the E74 is no longer covered by the warranty, so any steps that you take to try to fix it can't be considered a violation of the expired warranty, and Microsoft's official stance is that the RRoD and the E74 error have nothing to do with each other.
So... towel it. Lay the Xbox horizontally and deliberately overheat it (wrap it in a blanket, block airflow, wait until you hear the fan stop, unwrap, turn off, allow to cool, try playing it). Overheating will (again) loosen the GPU and, with the Xbox lying down, gravity will generally pull the chip back into its connections. After at most two or three cycles of this, you'll find your console will work as good as new, if only for a week or so, at which point you'll have to do the cycle again.
Again, you are attempting to fix an issue that is no longer covered by the warranty, so you can't violate it, and by Microsoft's own public statements, the E74 is \"completely different\" from the RRoD, which is caused by \"a variety of issues,\" so if towelling the Xbox \"just happens\" to exacerbate the thermal expansion problems so that they finally affect the CPU as well as the GPU, causing the RRoD and bringing you under the extended warranty, then... it must be coincidence.
Either the E74 is caused by the same physical defects and processes as the RRoD and therefore should be covered by the extended warranty, or they are, as Microsoft claims, unrelated and the user should not be held responsible if fixing the one error happens to aggravate the other.
Towel with a clean conscience.
Isn't it great how 1/2 the suggestions are for the person to commit fraud? (Say its 3 ring, break it so it 3 rings)
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-78164-100x100.png\")
Hate to say it, but you can call up and just tell them you have the three rings. MS doesn't actually repair your system, they send you a different refurbished unit.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-710849-100x100.png\")
As others have said, just tell them it is the RROD and you are good to go
I don't see how Microsoft is \"well within their rights\" here, being that three red rings or one, it's still a system failure, and one that is probably going to happen no matter how well we take care of our consoles.
Given that the console has an unusually high rate of failure, it seems odd that they'd make the distinction between one red light or three. In fact it sort of implies that they're only offering the extended warranty on the specific issue they got called on, leaving the larger matter unaddressed. A failure is a failure is a failure, and if it's down to bad design, they should suck it up and take care of it regardless.
Some damned QA pre-launch would have saved them tons of cash in repairs and exchanges. However even now, with the system's abnormally high failure-rate so well documented, they still don't appear to have taken any strides towards improving the system's reliability.
What's so frustrating is that they ignored QA in order to beat their competitors to market. They knew these things were going to be likely to fall apart, yet they put them out there just the same! To see them splitting hairs when by all rights we shouldn't even be buying these things is mind-blowing.
I know that as a 360 owner who has encountered the dreaded red rings, I won't be buying their next console until it's been on the market for at least a year and a half. I'll let the early adopters take that risk. Microsoft should count itself lucky that I'm even considering supporting them next time out at all.
When you set up your repair online, just select the \"3 light\" error option so it shows up as $0. Then send it off and see what happens. I bet you the guy on the other end just opens your box, puts a refurbished system in, and seals and ships it.
I don't see what the problem is here. You get a 3 year warrenty WITH RROD. You get the standard year with any other fault. That is how it is with electronics through the whole industry. Electronics are gonna fail so that is not the issue. You people think MS should pony up for other crap that is not a serious issue with the product line. It should not be that way. Buy the ext warrenty if you want it if not tough luck.
It seems like a lot of the time you get the E74 error around the same time you start getting the RROD. I believe it's just a generic video error, sometimes it can be fixed by just replacing the AV cable. Sometimes its the same issue as the RROD, the defective heatsink retention mechanism causes the GPU to partially desolder itself from the motherboard.
I'd try replacing the AV cable first, and if that doesn't help, leave the box on nonstop for a week. It might RROD, then you can send it in.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-504562-100x100.png\")
Buy a PS3 and you won't have this problem...
I simply cannot believe the people that are actually defending Microsoft. Um, guys, MS knew about the RROD for well over a year and continually denied the problem existed. Only after the threat of class action lawsuits, websites devoted to chronicling the RROD problem, and bad press from the mass media did MS finally, reluctantly, give in and extend the warranty. It is well known that MS knew of this problem BEFORE they released the console. So, yeah, please wrap that towel around the machine you one red lighters and get what is rightfully yours: a console that works.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-108451-100x100.png\")
You could also always do the towel trick for an extended period of time to force the system to show 3 red rings. Just search \"360 towel trick\" on Youtube.
What you should do is find a way to create the RROD so that MS can repair it, and hopefully they will repair whatever problem you were having in the first place. If they return it to you with the original problem, call them back and say it is still broken, you can argue that you didn't have that problem before.
I hate to sound like I'm blaming the OP here cause I am not but I have to side with MS on this. A 1 year warranty on a console is already pretty damn good...and the 3 year extended to RROD related issues only.
Not to say it doesn't suck having a broken XBOX out of warranty. I have an elite and have owned a 360 since launch day. My launch one lasted about a year before I got the dreaded 3 rings but they replaced it. Then I bought an elite for the HDMI, that had a video issue but was under warranty still so they fixed it. If my elite goes out again I will be screwed.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-257467-100x100.png\")
@I Am Awesome - more times than not, when you RROD, you just get a \"new\" xbox, so his issues, in fact, would be fixed
How many people in this thread are advocating fraud and voiding the terms of their warranty through damaging the console on purpose?
I guess what I meant by that is that it's not unreasonable for you to expect a console to work longer than 1 year. And frankly if a computer, console, TV or any major purchase like that that I had broke within about 3 years of normal use, I would curse and scream and pitch a fit, despite the fact that the manufacturer doesn't warrant it. It's a matter of principle.
I don't get the problem. Things break, it costs money to fix.
The extended warranty was created to only cover the 3RRoD which was related to a manufacturer&hardware issue. It wasn't simply a blanket 'if anything breaks we'll fix it past your standard warranty.'
We should be thankful enough that MS decided to extend the warranty for the most common issue that was definitely due to manufacturing negligence. The other errors are /mostly/ related to normal wear and tear - and that does not fall under the scope of responsibility of Microsoft. Get over it. The stipulations of the extended warranty was clear. It only applies if the machine is returning the 3RRoD with the upper right quadrant unlit.
E74 is, generally, an AV cable issue. he should try swapping it out with one of his friends as a test. If it works, he should buy another cable (eBay, gamestop, etc). If the swap doesnt work with a known working cable, then that is a machine issue - possibly related to the GPU in the machine - in which case it does need to be sent in for repair.
There are more solutions than Microsoft repair. 360pros (i think) does it too.. but if any other company besides Microsoft opens your machine, you void any kind of warranty (including the 3RRoD one) you might still have. Buyer Beware.
If he has the money to spare, and a simple swap doesn't work - he might consider buying another 360, one with the Jasper configuration. It's a different motherboard with a new chipset that runs cooler and consumes less power. this should increase the overall reliability of the machine. Again, it depends on what you can spring for.
Good luck, nevertheless.
Exact same thing happened to me. My system was just over a year old, so regular warranty had expired. I was very pissed, as from what I gathered online this \"hardware failure\" had to do with a design defect that caused the GPU to overheat and crack the soldering connection to the motherboard.
I had my original Xbox for 5 years and it was still working fine; every other computer I've owned has been worry free for at least 3 years. Why are Xboxes dropping dead after 1 year of light use? Total crap.
@undefined: The problem is that the problem he's facing is almost as prevalent as the RROD. That, and with everyone I know (including me) this problem isn't fixable. He's going to send his in, pay a rediculous fee to do so, get it \"fixed\", and see it break down in a couple of months.
If anyone here ever gets this error, break your 360 all the way to a RROD, if Microsoft won't do the right thing by choice then it's the only solution.
@LostTurntable: I'm going to have to call for a source on that, that E74 errors are as common as 3RRoD.
I've only heard of E74 errors online. I've known many people with 360s, and there have been many broken boxes amongst them. Mostly the 3RRoD, but some with broken disc drives, some with other errors. None of them have had E74 errors.
Sure, it's an anecdote, and not data, but you don't exactly have data either, and I'm not the one making a claim here.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-688164-100x100.png\")
Just close it up with no ventilation so that you get RROD. Then send it in. It may be fraud, but you could argue that it's MS committed fraud when it released a console with a defect. Yes I'm on my 3rd box due to actual RROD.
The first problem is that you like many other consumers believe that buying a piece of electronic equipment, one that has a high probability of failure, can be likened to a “rite of passage.” Insomuch that that you didn’t even get angry when the RROD occurred, because deep down you knew it would happen eventually. You stated “I wasn't even angry, thinking that this is just a rite of passage for anyone that owns this system and I just have to deal with it.” I do not think MS should extend their warranty; they should fix the problem to begin with. Look at it this way. Why should MS fix the problem when people are still willing to buy the console knowing full well it will likely fail? Extending the warranty was a temporary measure to “save face” in light of the massive RROD failures. But because of good MS publicity and fanboy insistence, most MS consumers believe like you, that console failure is an acceptable occurrence, a simple rite of passage. I do not feel pity for any gamer that buys a 360 knowing the consoles failure rate.
When I got my 3rd 360 back it was locking up and then I got the E74 error. I called MS back again and told the agent that I did the research and it stated that it was the hard drive and he said its cover by warranty and to send it back. Then my 360 locked and wouldnt boot so Im guessing it wasnt my HD at all which really angered me. Since I lost everything I had I got a another 20 GB hard drive out of them. The agents on the phone have really no experience, poorly trained (I feel sorry for them) and have no power what so ever to do anything. They can only follow the script and can only give the standard answers. Their second level supervisors and I said that loosely are there just to get yelled at and they can only offer to give your the standard free stuff if you really push for it. I had to do a EECB to get the escalation desk. Knowing what I know now I would have kept my drive and sent back the 360, luckily I didnt have a lot of games on the go or otherwise I would be really pissed.
Just to make sure everyone is clear, E74 and 3 Lights (RROD) are NOT NOT NOT the same.
E74 is either a problem with the scaler chip (Bad connection to the motherboard), or a problem with the GPU.
RROD (3 Lights) is the overheating of the GPU/CPU.
Different problems, so this guy does not know what he is talking about and does not know how to use google.
Microsoft does offer an extended warranty through them for $60 that extends the warranty for all things not 3 red lights to 3 years also. The card to send in payment (either check or CC) is in each 360 console.
Not a great option, but one that is available and is probably needed for a lot of people.
This exact error happened to my Xbox 360 Elite last summer. The console was about 2 months out of warranty, and I got a RROD but with the error code E74. I called Xbox service and they wanted $100 to fix the problem. I pointed out that many people on the web had mentioned the same RROD E74 problem, that it was fairly widespread, and that I did not want to pay the $100 fee.
The customer service rep could not waive the fee, so I asked to speak to a supervisor as nicely as I could. Within 10 minutes the supervisor had agreed to wave the fee, and my Xbox \"coffin\" was on its way.
Perhaps I just got lucky or maybe they were more flexible last year with the repairs. The bottom line is that E74 is just one several heat problems with the 360. MS should make good on all such related repairs.
just my $.02 but after getting in a similar issue... simply send in the xbox labeling the error as the 3 red lights... and you will get a new one sent back at no cost, at this point they dont really bother checking the error and simply replace them without question.
if they do you will be charged the $99 anyways or returned your xbox... so really there's no difference
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-229688-100x100.png\")
The best option is to not buy an xbox 360. I have had two fail, one of which was unable to be replaced by microsoft for not being the correct type of failure. Give your money to a company that A) Builds a good product B) supports the product when it breaks.
I currently have the same problem right now (E74). This is my 7th Xbox 360. All the Xbox 360 before this one were covered by EBGames. But after EBGames eliminated the warranty I was left with the only option, crossing my fingers and hope that it doesn't die on me. Well... It just did and Microsoft wants me to pay them $99 dollar to fix it...
I fix the E74 and RRoD for $35, and have Xbox 360's at my house all the time. If you are in the Phoenix area you can find my ad on Craigslist as West Valley Xbox Repair. If you are outside of the area, you can ship it to me and I will fix it and ship it back. You can use Paypal for buyer protection.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-191629-100x100.png\")
I get sooooo tired of hearing \"Thats why I don't have a 360\" I have a day one launch system that works perfectly, as do 8 of my 10 friends that have 360s
People sure looooooove anecdotal evidence.
I frequent quite a few forums, and the RRoD is a issue with the heating and such. My advice, google how not to RRoD and do anything you can the opposite. I mean purposely try to red ring your Xbox. You have like 2 years to try it
Welcome to my world. I got this same error last summer and I'm too poor to pay to have it fixed so it's sitting in a box at home.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-369596-100x100.png\")
This has an easy solution. When you buy a 360, don't register it for warranty repair until you've had had it for several months. The DVD drive in mine broke after about 16 months, but I \"still had\" 2 or 3 months left under warranty.
Of course what really angers me over it was that they sent me a refurbed machine instead of fixing mine. The DVD drive swap would have been fast and easy, and the box had no other problems I was aware of. The warranty replacement (a) makes more noise (the drive and fans all produce more white noise than the original one I had, and the dvd drive makes odd springy sounds when it winds up and down) (b) has occasional graphical errors like colorful static on the screen getting progressively worse until the system freezes (c) has other graphical flaws, such as textures taking an exhorbitantly long time to get drawn into scenes (very noticible in in-engine cut scenes for halo 3 and mass effect. But that might just be crappy design in the games themselves) (d) games that I purchased through xbox live arcade on the old box do not work unless I am logged into xbox live on the new box.
@dangermike: That won't necessarily work depending on where you buy the console. Many people have reported that MS knew when the console was sold despite never actually registering the console, presumably from the store sending data to MS about what serial numbers were sold on what days.
For example, me. I never registered my console with MS, but when I had a red ring, I called MS, gave them my serial number, and they were able to determine when I bought the console and whether I was covered. I was thinking I'd have to go find the receipt from when I'd bought it, but they knew without any of that.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-33861-100x100.png\")
The audio/video output in my 360 died, but there was no red ring, it cost my $99 too.
@Cyberxion101 (Putting this here since the reply button isn't working for me)
The RRoD is the most common xbox issue and that's done by overheating. The other system failures are somewhat on the rare side. Yes the Xbox does have a high failure rate compared to the other console. However, in this case, it's not Microsoft's fault. They provide a fix for the common system failure. Anything else that happens outside of the warranty period isn't their issue. It's the same thing for computers.
Heh. They were very clear in their press releases that the 3 year warrant was only for the 3-ring error (total console failure), but sounds like Konman72 has the right idea...
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@dyscord: i'm having that problem, too. go here: [getsatisfaction.com] hopefully we can get it fixed.
i understand what you're saying, but it's also kind of b.s. for example, one of my friend's dead xboxes (yes, xboxES) reads dvds, but when you put in an xbox disc, it says \"put this disc in an xbox\". it is in an xbox, stupid! upon dissection, i think it's quite possible that this is related to the rrod (but not covered under the same warranty). the dvd drive's logic board sits RIGHT ON TOP of one of the chipsets (& gets hot as hell). it forgot its drive key & heat had nothing to do with this? right. another dead xbox of his is getting a GFX error, which also seems related to the rrod (in that remounting the heatsinks fixed it). from what i've heard, the e74 error is heat-related too.
it seems pretty silly to me that all these problems arise from a single design flaw - too much heat - yet only one is covered under an extended warranty.
I had the same exact problem I thought i had the rrod and I did not and they tried to make me pay the 100 bull shit I have about 30 xbox 360 gamessss I have 6 contollers cause of brothers and sisters and other items purchased from microsoft and they are not getting an additional 100 dollars this is bull shit. so I hung up the phone I am not paying for this I bought the elite when it was 470 dollars and I had the same problem with mine wasn't covered because of 1 light wtf idc how many fn lights I have the worlds richest comapny needs to open there eyes and stop being tight.
the rich get richer and the poor get poorer
I had the same exact problem I thought i had the rrod and I did not and they tried to make me pay the 100 bull shit I have about 30 xbox 360 gamessss I have 6 contollers cause of brothers and sisters and other items purchased from microsoft and they are not getting an additional 100 dollars this is bull shit. so I hung up the phone I am not paying for this I bought the elite when it was 470 dollars and I had the same problem with mine wasn't covered because of 1 light wtf idc how many fn lights I have the worlds richest comapny needs to open there eyes and stop being tight. the rich get richer and the poor get poorer
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I, too, purchased an Xbox 360 in January 2008. I got the exact same error (74) yesterday. I'm starting to notice a pattern, and I don't like it one bit.
I had contacted the BBB after my Xbox 360 started experiencing a common error other than the RRoD. Microsoft called me after the BBB pressed them to make the repair free and sure enough, some guy called me at Microsoft and gave me the repair for free.
It was still a hassle though.
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@wastedlife
Costco's return policy, from their website:
Merchandise: We guarantee your satisfaction on every product we sell with a full refund. Exceptions: Televisions, projectors, computers, cameras, camcorders, iPOD / MP3 players and cellular phones must be returned within 90 days of purchase for a refund.
I don't see \"game consoles\" listed under the exceptions.
I love my 360 dearly, especially the Xbox Live arcade and playing Rock Band online, but this still sucks.
However, despite that, the repair cost is a cheaper alternative than going out and buying a new console from the store.
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That's because one flashing light isn't the internal metldown problem that three is. The thing is I wonder how people treat this to have them overheat as much. Yes, there's a design flaw but I've gone to friends houses and they've had them lying on the carpet with DVD cases on the top. Inside closed cabinets, papers blocking the back fans. It's no wonder it happens.
@kylo4iskyle4: having dissected 1/2 dozen of these monstrosities, let me tell you...they get HOT! like boil an egg on the heatsink hot. with the fans off & the case open, do you know how long it takes the system to overheat? approximately 20 seconds. & if you touch the heatsinks, you'll burn your fingers. that seems like an awful lot of heat for 2 tiny chipsets.
yes, some people exasperate the problem, but these issues occur even in cases where the xbox has optimal ventilation.
Also, DO NOT purchase the cooling systems. These are known to cause RROD quicker as they don't allow the system to cool/run the way its supposed to. Some of them even draw power from it. They were not designed to use those devices and they void your warranty.
The same problem currently exists with Video Cards dieing and not being covered.
You just call and tell them you have 3 red lights or the RROD and they process it. No problem.
If you want to be sure they get the box with a RROD to avoid the possibility of getting charged aynway, just look up how to use a towel and force the system to RROD.
This kind of crap from MS is why I got a PS3. Let me tell you it is amazing. Not only are the graphics better, but it does so much more. And, you can install Linux on it and use it as a computer and it comes with a Blu-ray player. Worth every penny. My xbox died after just over a year and they refused to fix it, so I just bought a PS3. Best decision I ever made.
I work at a local video game store (NOT GameStop, though we are a competitor in the area). Whenever a 360 breaks, we're always very plain with the customer and whether what happened is covered or not. We educate the customer, something that GameStop, I gather, doesn't do. And if it's a general hardware fault that's *not* the motherboard-specific RROD, we usually encourage the customer to pay the $100 and get a new system. Hell, we tell them to only send the system, as many times they'll send it back with new cables - which they can keep or sell back to us to help mitigate the cost (the power cables are crazy expensive, we pay about $15 for them).
If that ever happens all you have do is make your 360 Red Ring. Remove all the accessories and wrap it in towels and leave it on for a good while.
By this time you should have 4 lights. Turn off the console and boot it back up. Should have 3 lights
Had my box repaired 7 times under warranty, and 3 times thru a friend who repairs them himself. 1 Red light, aka E74 is most likely just a dirty system that needs to be cleaned out, its a simple process, and my friend does it for 20 bucks. It's most likely from the following:
-You Xbox is Vertical (damages laser and discs)
-You smoke (dirtys the xbox)
-You Don't Dust (ditto)
If you can't find someone who does it outside of MS, Check ebay for resellers, you can get a CONSOLE ONLY xbox with no cords or extras for like 50 bucks. It's not a repair, but atleast you didn't pay $99. Its a shell game my friend, welcome to dealing with Microsoft.
\"Some cars automatically double the warranty - \"
Do you mean cards?
I don't blame Microsoft on this one. This is a fault of ALL electrical equipment. The governments need to make a law extending the warranty.
The 3 red rings, as mentioned, are nothing more than a way to stop a complete recall. The extended warranty more than covers the amount of time a moderately used console will take to RRoD.
The problem is that depending on how it's used, something will go wrong. It's not microsofts fault that you put it in a dust covered compartment with no airflow. That's your fault for being stupid. If you're lucky enough to get a RRoD then you'll get it fixed. If not, then it's your own fault.
On the otherhand, a mandatory 1 year warranty is nowhere near enough for most electrical equipment. Again not Microsofts fault though. Blame your country. Some countries have mandatory 2 years which is awesome -if not, sucks to be you =-(
@Eambo:
It is not customers to blame well at least not the majority of them. Sure some people treat all there stuff like crap.
But take my 360 ellite has sat on my desk with nothing around it for the whole year I have had it. I put it down in it's spot and it has not moved from my desk at all.
Like all my equipment I wipe it down if I see dust on it. I treat my stuff well not one of my electronic devices even has a scratch. Also how many people can say they open there PC once a month to vacuum out all the dust? I have a special vacuum cleaner for this purpose no kidding.
Though I don't open the ellite but I do use the little vacuum to vacuum the vents of the console. The console gets light use I have rarely ever played it more then 3 hours at a time.
But now when I put a disk in it says disk unreadable. Even though not one of my games has even a scratch on it except for the one used game I bought.
The DVD drive is dead no one can tell me that I was at fault for this problem. The console failed because the DVD drive has failed and that is hardware failure. Not to mention I get the lights that say it is overheating. Before anyone says it I checked the power supply with a friends working 360 ellite power supply and it was still doing the overheating light show. My freinds ellite also was tried on my power supply and it worked perfectly.
The RROD is caused by heat so is my issue what is the difference exactly? I am just unlucky that the overheat did not cause the RROD. Hence they are saying my console is the wrong kind of broken. It still died from a major manufacture defect and the drive and overheat issue is well known.
Also common I am not supposed to blame the company for doing something dishonest just because the government for the country I live in does not make it need a 2 year warranty which is Canada by the way in case anyone wants to know.
Giving a 1 year warranty on a device known to have multiple things that can cause failures is wrong. Not to mention I think it is wrong for any company to have a warranty under 3 years. To me the minimum life for a electronic device taken care of should be 3 years.
That is a minimum not to say I would be happy with a device breaking after 3 years but it is at least acceptable.
If I break something and it is my fault I do not complain about paying for repairs. Such as when a power surge fried the power supply in one of my computers and I did not bother putting it on a surge protector because I was saving up for one.
Well I did not complain I simply ordered a power supply and a surge protector that same day. I did not blame the manufacturer of the power supply.
But I refuse to pay for others mistakes. I will not pay for a repair or replacement when the device failed from poor manufacturing. If any device fails from normal use before 3 years that was taken care of then that is the fault of the manufacturer.
There's another thing they \"can't\" fix: Undoing the delete all command, which has no safeties against a slip of the finger.
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I get asked why I don't have a 360 relatively often...this is why.
@odhen: Yeah, I guess you're right. A known hardware issue that Microsoft has acknowledged and fixes without cost within a week.
Man, what a bunch of greedy assholes!
@odhen: Solely owning a PS3 net a usual ire form friends...but meh...I dealt with too many broken XBOX's to bother anymore.
@odhen: You're making an irrelevant point.
@odhen: I'd like one, but with all the issues, I think it shows that Microsoft is just not a good hardware company.