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ElijahDProphet
March 11, 2009 5:16 PM
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This comes as no surprise. During my 'dark years' working for Best Buy we had sales managers who 'instructed' us with a wink and a nudge to lie about laptops in stock if a shopper didn't look like they were going to buy the add ons.

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Psychicsword
March 12, 2009 4:15 AM
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@ElijahDProphet: Wouldn't killing the full sale be worse than selling the laptop with out a PPP or other addons? I can see how it might make sense for sale items where there may be a high demand before the next delivery of the item but I can see how that would help with non-sale items or the lower demand items.

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jeebussez
March 13, 2009 8:22 AM
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@Psychicsword: laptops, like video game consoles, are often sold at a price set by the manufacturer. Therefore, when retail outlets sell them, they usually make very little on them. By _forcing_ add on sales, you improve your overall gross margin by increasing your volume and you move product at the same time; for PPP's you're basically making money out of thin air. It's always margin, not ticket price, you aim for.

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secretmanofagent
March 11, 2009 9:30 PM
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@ElijahDProphet:
Former employee there as well, they did the same thing. Remember the whole MSN debacle?

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From the cubicle of PGibbons
March 11, 2009 6:40 PM
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@ElijahDProphet: This was a known Best Buy tactic, thank you for confirming it once again.

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philmin
March 11, 2009 5:16 PM
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It will never be a smart business practice to sell computers at 1% margin then assume you can make a profit by selling useless crap along with it. Same goes with TV sales. Im looking at you, circuit city and best buy.

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Kogenta
March 11, 2009 6:23 PM
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@philmin: Yet that's pretty much how it works everywhere. The margin on consumer electronics is razor thin. It's accessories where they make their money. And quite frankly, I doubt it'll change anytime soon. Unless all the stores sort of collude to raise prices, no one's going to suddenly jack their price by 10% unless some other factor will drive people to buy from them rather than their lower cost competators.

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TouchMyMonkey
March 11, 2009 6:23 PM
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@philmin: CC is dead. Don't look at them anymore, except as an object lesson to others, like Office Depot.

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revmatty
March 11, 2009 5:50 PM
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@philmin: On computers 1% would be generous in many cases. When I sold computers at Good Guys (a misnomer if every there were one) a desktop computer was running about $1500 for a mediocre one and the profit on it was less than $10. The salespersons commission was less than a dollar. However, the $200 warranty was 100% profit and got the salesperson a cool $30 or greater commission.

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corsec67
March 11, 2009 5:40 PM
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@philmin: But the reason is that they get people in the store based on the low advertised price. If that low price isn't actually available, then that would be false advertising, but it did get people in the store.

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dragonfire81
March 11, 2009 5:17 PM
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This is a fine example of how depending on upsells and add-on sales can ruin a business.

I've worked for several companies where the Store Managers and District Managers live and die by their add-on/upsell numbers.

I've noticed lately at the store where I work that customers are more resistant to upsells lately, could this be because the economy is in the tank and folks don't have a lot of money to be spending? Hmmm...

This policy/practice maybe unethical and perhaps illegal, but personally if I were buying a computer, Office Depot would be way at the bottom of my list and I felt this way before ever seeing this post.

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darkmstr
March 12, 2009 6:09 PM
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@dragonfire81: Slowly but surely, I think consumers are learning how to use the intrawebz. This means that they are taking the time to research and compare laptop/PC models, and they are shopping around online for the best deals. If you find a good deal @ a big box store on the laptop you want, but found all your addons online cheaper, you're just not going to bite on the upsell.
The price differences are hugely apparent when it comes to cables and power conditioners/UPS's.

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milrtime83
March 11, 2009 5:18 PM
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\"Or just buy your laptop somewhere else.\"

This should be the only recommendation...

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downwithmonstercable
March 11, 2009 8:04 PM
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@milrtime83: Or just buy it online if available. Plus they have lots of free shipping deals all the time for orders over like $50.

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pb5000
March 11, 2009 5:19 PM
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Yes, lie to them so they don't screw you by lying to you. It's like we're shopping at street markets all of a sudden.

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cuchanu
March 11, 2009 6:38 PM
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@pb5000: Sounds good to me I miss Guatemala and Morocco.

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Thanatos
March 11, 2009 5:21 PM
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\"lie to the associate and say you want a PPP, and change your mind once the laptop is where you can see it.\"
Love it :D but the better option is \"Or just buy your laptop somewhere else.\"

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BuddyHinton
March 11, 2009 5:23 PM
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Say you're going to buy their extra crap. Then change your mind at the register.

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k6richar
March 11, 2009 5:25 PM
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Simply tell them you want the extras then when they bring the actual laptop change your mind.
feel free to waste as much of their time as possible getting them to explain the addons to great levels of detail.

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boomerang86
March 11, 2009 5:26 PM
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I say shop for what you want in store, then LEAVE and buy it from an online vendor.


I've purchased notebook PCs from Fry's, Newegg (twice) J&R and Amazon with no regrets.

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johnfrombrooklyn
March 12, 2009 1:22 PM
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@boomerang86: If everyone does that then no stores will be left. Not that I'd miss many of them.

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Michael Ortega
March 11, 2009 5:26 PM
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Compusa use to do this too, Im pretty sure this is common practice at many retailers. There is so much pressure put on to make \"numbers\" that it comes to BS like this.

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albear
March 11, 2009 5:31 PM
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One way to get around this, yank the shabby salespersons chain and make them salivate telling them you will buy everything they suggest, including the $29.00 moist towelettes to clean the LCD screen.


When they bring everything out, say you changed your mind but you will just take the laptop.

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cuchanu
March 11, 2009 6:41 PM
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@albear: Well the problem with that is that you need to know if the person will try pulling the \"not in stock\" move on you beforehand. It's not really fair to waste their time if they have no intention of jacking you around and are being perfectly nice. However if they aren't being perfectly nice then hell yeah feel free to screw with them for the little guy.

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shepd
March 11, 2009 7:39 PM
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@cuchanu:

So, do what HurtsSoGood suggested, just a little differently.

Go in with the intention to buy none of the crap. Select a laptop you don't want that's reasonably similar (They might want to move the $3,000 laptop at any \"cost\", but the $500 special you saw maybe not so). See if it's \"in stock\". If the answer is yes, change your mind and get the one you like. If the answer is no, again, change your mind but start with the bullshitting.

Making them check stock twice is not unreasonable behaviour.

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TouchMyMonkey
March 11, 2009 6:28 PM
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@albear: Or even better, refuse to buy the BS, but \"choose\" a laptop you're not particularly interested in buying. When they tell you it's out of stock, ask, \"well, what about that one?\" Rinse and repeat until you get tired of making the salesgeek run.

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rpm773
March 11, 2009 6:17 PM
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@albear: Now this is a fantastic idea. In fact, I'd only there to be an incident after pulling this one at the store, after the salesperson being burned so badly.

Unless they throw all the crap on in the backroom before producing the laptop, and tell you it's the last one when you try to back out. But, worst case scenario: you leave without paying anything.

Nevertheless, +1

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jklug80
March 11, 2009 5:31 PM
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It will never be a smart business practice to sell computers at 1% margin then assume you can make a profit by selling useless crap along with it. Same goes with TV sales. Im looking at you, circuit city and best buy.


Wait... Circuit who?

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Outrun1986
March 11, 2009 5:32 PM
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Sounds like every retailer does this, so my only advice is if your in the market for a computer, buy it online! I know I wouldn't even consider buying a computer at retail, unless it was a place like Sam's club where you can just pick up a computer, take it to the register and pay for it.

I absolutely hate upsells, and I buy very little stuff where accessories and extended warranties are mandatory. I am not buying things that I don't need and wasting more of my money just to satisfy the \"numbers\" of some company.

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cuchanu
March 11, 2009 6:42 PM
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@Outrun1986: Especially considering all the bullshit people go through with extended warranties.

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Outrun1986
March 11, 2009 7:30 PM
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@cuchanu: Yup, there is always a clause at the end \"warranty repairs subject to manager's approval\" so if for some reason they deny your claim, your gonna be out the money that you paid for the warranty and still have a broken item on your hands.

This of course only applies to warranties you buy in the store, I have heard purchasing an extended warranty directly from the manufacturer of your product is a different story.

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lalaland13
March 11, 2009 5:32 PM
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Oh gosh can you imagine the head explosion if you did say you wanted all the extras, then changed your mind when you had the actual laptop? I picture Office Depot managers dissolving into a puddle like the Wicked Witch of the West, hissing, \"Nooo! My commission! I'm meelltiing!\"

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opsomath
March 11, 2009 5:37 PM
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Is there any legal difference between this practice and the online \"bait and switch\" scam of which we've heard so much? If not, perhaps one day we can get a class action lawsuit going on here.

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Robobot
March 11, 2009 5:40 PM
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Way to promote the \"magical back room\" myth, Office Depot. Now when a crabby old bitch barks \"It's can't be out of stock! I know you have some more in your back room hidden for yourselves!\" she will actually be right.

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Rectilinear Propagation
March 11, 2009 6:47 PM
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@Robobot: Yep. They've just made things that much suckier for employees in stores where they don't lie about their stock.

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metaled
March 11, 2009 5:40 PM
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I caught onto this back in November, I went looking for a sale on 2 gateway laptops that were an incredible deal. The salesman checked the computer to make sure they had them, then tried to sell me other things. I didn't accept, so he took me to the register to ring them up (using the scan code card from the display), they tried to sell me installation services and the extended service plan. I declined the offer and said I just wanted the laptops, he told me to hold on and he woul get them (before paying), he came back and told me the computer was wrong, that they had them on order and had sold out (morning of the sale at 10:30 am, half hour after opening.) I knew by the way he was acting, what was going on... why sell me 2 laptops for a GREAT price, when they can sell them to 2 different people and get package deals.
I ended up going to 2 more office depots, told them I wanted a laptop and the extended service plan, but wanted to pay cash for the machine and would use a credit card for the plan... When they rang up the plan, I told them I forgot my wallet and would have to come back.
I've seen this on a lot of sales items, the price is to get you into the store, they aren't making any money on the computer, they want to sell you the extras and services. One old guy walked out with a cart full of software, he didn't need.. example, Microsoft office, the machine had \"WORKS\" installed and the guy told him he couldn't write letters without the software upgrade. They piss me off! Please don't let Elderly relatives shop for computers alone!
Have you seen their \"Online Virus Scan and Repair Services?\".. $200 for ONLINE software diagnosis and repair\". (stuff you can do for free or a fraction of the price.) How many of those customer's end up needing the \"online protection service\" or \"Online PC tuneup\" at an extra $90?

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fantomesq
March 11, 2009 5:41 PM
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Many major brand laptops these days don't even carry the 1% and are in fact loss leaders to get customers in the door.

Chris hit the nail on the head with the salespeople trying to game the system but this gaming of the system carries risks with it also. If the salesperson were to pull this stunt with the laptop and then suggest another (higher priced or lower feature) laptop that they did have in stock, it would be casebook bait-and-switch.

A customer could also call the salesperson's bluff by ordering online with in-store pickup (I'd do it right there in the store) and watch them dance their way out of that.

A smart Regional Manager will see through this charade anyway - the higher attach rate will come at a severe decrease in volume. Since the actual point of the ad is to get you in the door and returning as a more profitable customer, this store is negating the value of their expensive ads and exchanging short term profits for their longterm profitability and viability... a fool's move.

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Outrun1986
March 11, 2009 5:50 PM
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@fantomesq: Not to mention they may get complaints to corporate and the BBB if the customers are serious enough. Most savvy computer shoppers will do this as well (it only takes a few min of your time). Then they will go spreading bad publicity about the store, the store gets less customers, the customers walk away unsatisfied and its just a fools move all along as you say. Especially in an economy where people are looking for customer service.

The upsell simply isn't viable these days, almost every computer shopper knows about it, and will resist it to the end. I would even argue the vast majority of consumers these days are savvy to the upsell, and will resist it for many items. There have been many news stories, newspaper articles, and hundreds of articles on the internet written about avoiding the upsell and not buying the extended warranty.

What do these people do then, they go online and buy the laptop so they don't have to deal with retail stores, and then they never return back to the store because all purchases after that are then made online. I don't see how this is helping the store's business any.

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Damocles57
March 11, 2009 5:43 PM
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\"Yes, lie to them so they don't screw you by lying to you. It's like we're shopping at street markets all of a sudden.\"


So, companies can implement and practice any type of deceptive techniques to make a sale from a consumer who is not informed or misinformed and this is okay?


The consumer is not allowed to participate by using the same type of technique on the seller to negotiate a better exchange of value for him/herself?


Most business transactions are \"gamed\" to favor the seller not the buyer. I see nothing wrong for the buyer to use the same strategies or tactics on the seller that the seller is willing to use on the buyer. If the seller established the rules, they should not be shocked or surprised or upset when the lamb being fleeced objects to the method of fleecing.

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DerangedRoleModel
March 11, 2009 5:47 PM
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So I guess Office Depot wants to end up on the side of the road like Circuit City?

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From the cubicle of PGibbons
March 11, 2009 6:45 PM
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@DerangedRoleModel: If they are resorting to these sorts of tactics, it seems they may be well on the way there.

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QuanikaJulisa
March 11, 2009 5:49 PM
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Yet another reason not to buy a laptop from Office Depot - or in fact anything from them. Shop at stores with friendly, ethical policies and do your best to push the rest into bankruptcy.

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From the cubicle of PGibbons
March 11, 2009 6:58 PM
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@QuanikaJulisa: In a way, it seems like a \"race to the bottom\" because there is little to no regulation requiring a fair playing field. Yes - regulation. Businesses have blindly opposed regulation for years, but they forget how playing by common and fair rules promotes everyone's chance to compete on more than just the \"lowest price.\"

Laws like \"bait and switch,\" \"unfair competition,\" and other \"regulations\" are often pushed to the limit (and beyond) by businesses - ESPECIALLY bigger businesses. Now that they've effectively killed off most regulatory oversight (and nearly all the mom and pop businesses), big box stores are taking the next logical step and running wild like a cancer. It will eventually kill off more and more stores and jobs leaving a few \"winners\" with little to no competition.

Short term thinking can and will eventually be gamed to the detriment of everyone's long term interest. Office Depot used to be a fairly decent place, this indicates to me they must be in bad shape and going for broke.

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tc4b
March 11, 2009 5:53 PM
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Does newegg sell laptops? Buy it there. I have had excellent service from them buying monitors, hard drives, and other stuff. Great company. I figure the only way these shady operations stay alive is that not enough people have tried newegg.

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spoco
March 11, 2009 5:56 PM
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Isn't this what those camera and electronics stores in NYC do so notoriously? I was visiting one time and ran up on a good deal on a camera ($600 for something that normally ran $2000). The guy went to the back, brought a box out and put it on the counter behind them. Started trying to sell me memory cards and extra batteries and such at about 500% of retail. I said no thanks and all of a sudden that camera wasn't for me, it was for another customer. I asked to see a manager and was told to get the fuck out. Since learned thats the way they do business.

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Shadowman615
March 11, 2009 5:57 PM
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This is a direct result of the middle-toupper management MBA-types implementing poorly designed metrics so they can go back to their bosses with positive results to show how much they're saving or earning for the company. Or how much add-on sales are increasing under their watch.

In reality, you get this kind of BS where employees and store-managers learn to game the system. Everyone loses in this case. The store actually ends up with less sales and unsatisfied customers.

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bazaar_apparatus
March 11, 2009 5:59 PM
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Hahaha that's awesome, the picture for this article was taken by my friend Morgan, and I've been to that actual Office Depot several times. Never tried buying a laptop there though, so I can't speak to the topic at hand.

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Paul Puri
March 11, 2009 6:00 PM
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Margins are next to nothing. Many losing money as soon as it goes on sale. At retail, a laptop is lucky to make 3 percent. At the sale price, it is most definitely losing money. These things are sold out of a broken business model. Margin rich products like services and service plans came out of a need to survive. It comes out of competition with the actual computers, and prices dropping constantly. And the economy the way it is does not help either.

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axiomatic
March 11, 2009 6:13 PM
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I have to say, you'd have to be (really desperate) to buy a laptop from office Depot in the first place. Sorry but I just don't expect the people who sell me paper and paperclips to be knowledgeable about computers.

Just looking at my local Office Depot shelf arrangement (or lack thereof) skills tells me that I'm not sure I even want to buy paper from them anymore.

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johnva
March 11, 2009 6:13 PM
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This seems like it's probably illegal to me, because they're advertising a certain price and then refusing to honor it.

Then again, I really don't get why anyone would buy a laptop in a retail store, for the most part. Online you get better service, much wider selection, more customization, lower prices, newer models, and you don't get harassed to buy scammy \"warranty upgrades\" and such. If this is the business model stores are relying on for the future, they deserve to go out of business. There are only so many idiots and people who need immediate gratification for them to prey upon.

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Marshfield
March 11, 2009 7:23 PM
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@johnva: I would by a laptop in a bm store because I can see it, lift it , fold the screen, type on it, and get a sense for how it FEELS. You can't do that online.

Of course you could do that at OD and then buy online but my personal feeling is its sleazy to visit a bm store and not buy there or at least their online store.

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Imaginary
March 11, 2009 6:19 PM
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Personally upsell tactics have never worked on me, especially after working in retail for years. To those who work for Office Depot; If you're willing to lie for a company that is treating you unfairly then it's your fault. Are you so desperate to get a variable check, unsure about your finances week by week, that you'll lie to people just to separate then from a few more dollars for a company that could care less about you, and probably fire you at the first hint of profit loss.

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cunninglinguine
March 11, 2009 6:23 PM
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The photo looks like the Office Depot on DI in Las Vegas.

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jpdanzig
March 11, 2009 6:24 PM
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What disgusting policy.


I suggest going to an OD or BB and getting a feel for the keyboard and screen of the laptop you're interested in, and then -- as others have suggested -- shop for your choice online at j&r, b&h, amazon, or some other reputable seller.


I simply will not do business with a company that plays games like OD. If they game me in this way, why would I trust them to be there for me when God forbid I might need support or service?


As Daffy Duck might have said, their sales practices are \"dethpicable\"!

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bryandawg
March 11, 2009 6:30 PM
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I bought a laptop 4 weeks ago from Office Dept...did not have this experience at all. It was the second computer I've bought from them over the past few years (had such a great experience with the desktop I bought that when I needed a new laptop OD was the first place I thought of). I didn't have any issues, just picked up the little ticket/voucher, took it to the register and about 2 minutes later was walking out with the laptop. The only thing they offered was an extended service plan, which I declined (and they didn't even hassle me over that). I had researched the laptop before hand and knew which one I wanted (and they had it on sale for about $100 less than I could it anywhere online - not to mention in stock).

While I definitely believe others have had bad interactions, I can say that I'm a loyal OD customer for both office supplies and computers. Too bad everyone doesn't have the positive interactions I've had. And, since I'm a Consumerist reader, I'm pretty strict on how I rate my experiences with stores. Of course, I'll be vigilant on my return trips, but then again, I always am.

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adamczar
March 11, 2009 6:31 PM
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This is evil. Office Depot is officially on my do-not-buy-from list.

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jake7294
March 11, 2009 6:37 PM
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Typical post in this forum: You are wrong for buying something your way. Buy things my way or you're stupid and deserve to be swindled.

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Corporate-Shill
March 11, 2009 7:35 PM
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@jake7294:


Yep.


And next week the complaint will be about an online company and the response will direct the OP to Office Depot for an instore purchase.

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spoco
March 11, 2009 7:12 PM
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@jake7294: Or \"My opinion is superior to your opinion. I'm going to call you an idiot so that others think more of my opinion.\"


I've been getting a lot of that action lately.

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BeyondtheTech
March 11, 2009 6:39 PM
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I agree with many of the posters here:

1. Say yes to the add-ons.
2. Verify they have it in stock - request to make sure you look at the box to examine \"the description and technical specs,\" \"that it wasn't tampered with\" or any other convincing reason.
3. Ring up at the register, look at the total, freak out or show concern (not difficult to do in this economy), remove all the add-ons, then hand them your credit card and complete the sale.

If companies want to play dirty, let them eat dirt.

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sp00nix
March 11, 2009 6:43 PM
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My buddy went to CC to buy a laptop, and he talked the sales guy down really really low on the price by offering to buy the service plan. then at the last second after the salesman passed him off to get rung up he told the cashier that he didn't want the service plan.

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Anonymous
March 11, 2009 6:58 PM
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Now we need to know the week cycle for their bonuses, i.e. Sun-Sat etc. so we can tell what days they really need to turn on the heat to get the extras.

Now I guess I gotta go into a store and use the computers to \"check out\" the browsing capabilities and happen to leave this page up on the screen. I do this every visit to BB on their most prominent computers about their most recent customer service foible. HAHA

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mbz32190
March 11, 2009 7:20 PM
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Office Depot is almost dead anyway. I expect they will liquidate their remaining stores in the upcoming months. I would be careful about buying anything from them right now, especially since many of the low laptop prices still involve dreaded mail-in-rebates.

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kpetree10
March 11, 2009 7:30 PM
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A new Office Depot opened about 10 minutes from my house in either late 2007 or early 2008, it is now closing. It started it's \"Going out of Business\" sale around Christmas and it is still going on! Clearly if even a GOoB sale can't move the goods then they are really in trouble!

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ludwigk
March 11, 2009 7:45 PM
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@opsomath: Broken reply, consumerist site is not working for me:

This is a potential bait and switch: Advertise low priced product, customer comes in to get it and its not available. Offer something else.

Bait and switch is a fraudulent retail practice. It is not specific to online shopping in anyway, and it's older than your grandma.

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shepd
March 11, 2009 7:46 PM
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If you're bored, buy a couple of spy-cams (like the pen cameras I've seen). They're really quite cheap now, and you can get the pens in different styles, or even in different items (ID badges, etc).

Go in with a friend (or your SO), but enter the store separately. See if they'll sell you the laptop without crap first, when they come back with no stock, beg and plead them to check again *really* thoroughly--you'll wait.

Once you lose out on the deal, the other person asks for the same model a few minute later, but with all sorts of shite accessories. They even say they want TWO of the machines!

Get the machines on camera and I think you might have enough evidence to bust the store for bait and switch. Especially if there's multiple of the machines available to the customer buying junk. Hard to say \"Oh, I found a few of the laptops holding up the broken the leg of the bosses desk!\" in that case.

*sigh* If only I had the time or actually cared to buy anything in those types of stores. I haven't been in a Future Shop or Best Buy for over a year apart from boxing day, and don't plan to go again (apart from sleeping outside on boxing eve again!)

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Outrun1986
March 11, 2009 8:21 PM
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@shepd: Many stores have an online inventory checker, so you could check this before you went to the store. Check it the night before (your reading a website to get the ads before hand, right :) and then get there at opening. There is no way they will be sold out of the computer you want when you get there at opening a few min before the doors open. Besides if its in the ad there are laws that say they have to have the product in stock if its in the ad or else its false advertising, and if they try to direct you to a similar laptop with a higher price, then its classic bait and switch. So if your there before the door opens there is no way they can be sold out before the store even opens.

I am not sure about recording without letting them know your recording, the last thing you want to find out is that recording inside the store was illegal, and then get busted for making the video in the first place.

Also if you expect this is happening at a local store, all you probably have to do is call up a local news station and tell them about it, then they will investigate further without you putting yourself at risk.

I like the idea of going to the store, getting the addons and then getting to the register and balking at the total and making up some BS about how you can't afford it due to economic difficulty, but honestly this is all more trouble than its worth. Despite the fact that it would be hilarious to pull the above stunt. I wouldn't even try buying a computer in a retail store because its a pretty big waste of time IMO. I don't purchase computers often so I would prefer to just pay a few bucks more if I had to and get it online.

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Trencher93
March 11, 2009 7:59 PM
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apple.com doesn't have this problem - any business that MUST have extra fees to survive is DOOMED - circuit city, sears, etc...

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Sunny Yeung
March 11, 2009 8:02 PM
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Sounds like a case of being too incompetent to take your money. In this economy, you need all the revenue you can get.

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RobertW.TX
March 11, 2009 8:03 PM
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My first observation, Don't buy computers at Office Depot, they are schiesters.

Two, If you really want that computer from Office Depot. Tell the rep you want anything he suggests then change your mind at the register. It would take a rep with some serious chutzpah to refuse to sell you the laptop when it is setting right in front of you.

My $0.02

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JiminyChristmas
March 11, 2009 8:34 PM
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I say shop for what you want in store, then LEAVE and buy it from an online vendor.


What an excellent idea! I can't think of a better way to drive brick & mortar and/or independent retailers out of business.


A good friend is co-owner of an independent art supply store and deals with this mindset on a regular basis. They spend a lot of money hiring staff who are educated and experienced with the products. Likewise, it's actually a decent retail job that pays a living wage and has health benefits. One of the art magazines they stock recently had a 'how to beat the recession' article and one of the tips was to seek customer service at a local retailer and then shop by price online. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you; they don't stock the magazine anymore.


It's just my opinion, but availing yourself of a store's customer service while specifically intending to make a purchase elsewhere is unethical. Not to mention, it's an unsustainable business transaction. If enough people waste enough of a merchant's time it becomes a real expense. Then, if the business folds everyone is worse off than where they started.

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johnva
March 12, 2009 2:56 PM
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@JiminyChristmas: I somewhat agree that people should support local businesses, although I don't agree that it's \"unethical\". I have no obligation to buy anything just because I shop in a B&M store.

The problem is that the B&M business model is kind of broken, in many cases. That's just reality regardless of how much we might wish it were otherwise, and it needs to be recognized. Local businesses that can provide lots of extra value (whether in service, knowledgeable staff, local repair and support, local products not available elsewhere, etc) may be able to compete successfully with the cheaper online retailers, so they have a viable business model going forward. Small, highly specialized places may be able to compete in this way, especially if they supplement their business by selling online themselves. Perhaps that latter option would be a good thing to look into for your friend with the art business.

Places that don't really provide much of anything (except for higher overhead and hence higher prices) that online retailers don't, deserve to go out of business. I'm thinking especially of big-box retailers that just sell commodity products that I can easily buy on spec without needing to examine them physically (Best Buy, Circuit City (when they still existed), Office Depot, etc). These places don't really offer me anything that shopping online doesn't do better, at least for a larger purchase that I would plan ahead for. They don't have good service, they don't have a knowledgeable staff, they don't focus on things I can't get anywhere else, etc. So their higher prices and overhead are not justified. They don't even give you the warm fuzzies of supporting a local business; they're just another mega-corporation anyway.

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Rectilinear Propagation
March 11, 2009 9:19 PM
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@JiminyChristmas: I get what you're saying and I agree with you in general but in the specific case of Office Depot and their laptops the only alternative is to avoid them entirely. Since they won't sell laptops to anyone not buying extras they're really driving themselves out of business whether or not people come in just to look or not.

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Jeff Quinton
March 11, 2009 8:41 PM
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I got a laptop at Office Depot a couple of years ago. The first store I went to was out of it... trying to remember if they had asked about the extras yet or not. They did call another store in the same town and have them hold me one though, so I doubt they were doing this.

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fatcop
March 11, 2009 8:58 PM
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Damnit, someone beat me to the \"this wouldn't happen with apple\" line.

Fanbois......

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David Bixenspan
March 11, 2009 8:59 PM
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As far as not buying computers at all in retail stores, Staples just had an amazing deal (at least $200 less than something similar would cost elsewhere) for a Compaq laptop model that only they stock, and only in their stores, not online. I needed a new computer so I bought it, and it's awesome.

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mastmaker
March 11, 2009 9:08 PM
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I highly recommend Micro Center (of Santa Clara, at least). I only ever bought ONE laptop my whole life. And that was at Micro Center last week. $400 refurbished Compaq. Door-person sold me on a rewards program - 5% off in exchange for my name and phone number - which brought it down to $380. Five minutes, two questions (Do I need MS Office? No. How about Anti-virus? No.) and five gracious thank-you's later, I was on my way.

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ShinGetterPoPo
March 11, 2009 9:10 PM
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I have my way of getting around it if they're being overly pushy. I sit there and act like I'm going to buy all the extras they shove in my face. When we get to the register, oops, I've only got enough for the thing I bought in the first place. Oh well, at least you had what I wanted in stock.
Yeah, it's kind of a dick move, but not as much as them lying to me about whether or not they have something.

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Dan Seitz
March 11, 2009 9:20 PM
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What, they think people have never heard of Newegg?

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pakman3000
March 11, 2009 10:29 PM
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i hope you all realize that it's the managers and supervisors behind all this. Don't fault the line level sales people who have no choice.

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TechnoDestructo
March 11, 2009 10:59 PM
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I bought some parts at the Las Vegas Fry's and had the salesman tell me they were out of stock of...EVERY SINGLE PART I ASKED FOR, but they conveniently had the next model up.

I asked again when I got to the register, and lo and behold, all the parts I had initially wanted were right there in the cage.

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jpdanzig
March 11, 2009 11:00 PM
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Jiminy, I didn't advise shoppers to take advantage of the knowledgeable customer service at an independent retailer.


I advised shoppers to try out the look and feel of a laptop on their own at a CHAIN OUTLET where there is NO useful customer service as we know it.


Then all we're doing is having a good look at a model that's already on display. Again, I would be happy to buy the laptop right then and there -- and a few years back, I did buy one on the spot at J&R -- provided the store doesn't play pricing games with me like OD or BB.

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Peter Nincompoop
March 11, 2009 11:07 PM
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When I worked at CompUSE(less) a few years ago, this was the norm. Some employees and managers would go so far as to pull the most despicable scam I've ever come across: When price changes would come down, they wouldn't change the price tags on some of the laptops (esp. the ones that dropped a couple hundred bucks). Customer comes in, wants to buy one of the said laptops, and sales guys go into their service plan sales pitch. One of three things then happens:

1. Customer agrees to buy laptop and plan at listed (not updated) price. Result: Employee has cashier manually enter inflated price instead of scanning the UPC and store makes mega-margin on sale.

2. Customer balks or refuses to buy service plan. At this point, salesman offers discount on laptop if customer agrees to buy service plan. Customer agrees. Result: Employee has cashier manually enter inflated price instead of scanning the UPC and store makes mega-margin on sale.

3. Customer refuses to buy service plan. The \"disappointed\" salesman, \"throws-in\" a service plan that covers the difference between actual retail price and posted price. Customer feels empowered by defeating the honed sales pitch of the dark-sided salesman. Result: Salesman has cashier manually enter the 'discounted' (actual retail) price instead of scanning the UPC and then adds on service plan to bring sales total up to what the old price tag on the shelf advertises. Store makes mega-margin on sale.

The moral of the story is to make sure you have an idea of the average prices for the laptops on the market you're interested in.

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PLATTWORX
March 11, 2009 11:14 PM
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If this can be proven, the chain should be forced into liquidation by a court to repay consumers who were screwed over. THAT would teach retailers a lesson.


Office Depot has always been having troubles. I don't expect them to be around in 5 years even if this was not caught.

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Onion_Volcano
March 11, 2009 11:30 PM
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Can I just buy a PPP? That's all I want, just a PPP. You think they will sell one to me?

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Scatter
March 12, 2009 12:39 AM
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One of the sales people quoted in the article or maye the comments section was absolutely correct about something they said.

People want to pay as little as humanly possible for their computers and decline on the service plans....and then get pissed at the store when their laptop breaks 9 months later and the store won't allow them to exchange it.

I'm sorry but you get what you pay for. If you say no to the service plan the don't expect us to help you. It's an HP or Dell laptop, call them not us.

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shubox215
March 12, 2009 1:25 AM
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Buying online will ultimately send the retail industry down the tubes. If you shop the store then buy online, what will you do when the stores all go out of business? Granted, I but online, but I buy big ticket items from stores. And you know what, I BOUGHT MY NEWEST HDTV FROM CIRCUIT CITY just on principle. This country cannot lose companies and continue to erode the sales and service industry just because we want to save money.
Best Buy's approach to selling electronics has been VERY successful because it works. Sell items at low margin to beat the competition, end the days of commissioned salespeople, and make profit on services. Right now Best Buy has a great thin g going, but it will find itself more and more losing business to the internet.
I'm not sure of the exact number of Americans that are employed in the retail industry, but we cannot afford to lose quality over quantity. Cheaper is not going to save us down the road.

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intooooo
March 12, 2009 2:53 AM
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CompUSA used to do that....sure got them places..

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Zagroseckt
March 12, 2009 9:03 AM
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Hmm sounds like office depot is the next one up on the chopping block...

manigers like this who push there emploies to this limet should be banned from ever working in retail

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Psychodad1961
March 12, 2009 11:13 AM
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So I am in BB, looking at a locked cage with 4 0r 5 Eee PC 1000hd's in it. As I look at the display model, I tell the sales associate I want one. No need to \"sell\" it to me, I've wanted one for months. So she says \"Let me get a manager to get one\". Meanwhile, she small-talks me about my leg injury (I was in a wheelchair) and what I will use the netbook for. Do I know how easy that could break? Oh yes I do. Our PPP would protect it for 2 extra years including the battery! B.S. I say no thank you, but I do want a cordless mouse with it.
Guess what? Manager walks up and says \"I don't think we have anymore\". So, in my medicated state (hey I had a broken ankle and some good pain killers) I blurt out \" Bullshit! there's 4 of them right there!\" They both looked like they got caught in the back seat of her Dad's car.
Then the best part: She almost wouldn't sell me the damn thing because I wouldn't fill out some form that \"is required for every laptop purchase\" . Since she had already put the serial number in the space on the form, I tore it in half which really pissed her off.
I asked politely if BB accepted cash, and would that form be necessary if I were buying, say, a TV stand. I assure her I will NEVER bring my product back to BB for any reason (\"I'm not letting those idiots touch my shit.\" Remember those painkillers I was on?)
Finally, she has to get a manager to take it to the register since I won't fill out the form. This results in a 15 minute delay for me so a manager can walk my netbook 10 feet to the register.
As a final F YOU to BB, I stopped at the Loss Prevention podium near the doors and made the guy there watch as I opened it to ensure I was getting my netbook and not some bathroom tiles (THANK YOU CONSUMERIST!!!!!).

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layton59
March 12, 2009 11:13 AM
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All those \"out of stock\" LAPTOPS run on AC/DC. And it sounds like OFFICE DEPOT has been listening to some AC/DC. More specifically the song DIRTY TRICKS DONE DIRT CHEAP. Shame on all the stores that pull this crapola. I bought my Dell Inspiron 1525 with 3 MBs of RAM at Wal-Mart for a very fair price. I picked Dell because the cooling fan runs much less. Glad I did not fool with other stores like Office Depot. DIRTY TRICKS DONE DIRT CHEAP can also apply (in a good way) to shoppers smart enough to opt out of buying the \"extras\" at the cash register after monopolizing the corrupt sales clerks time.

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Luke Wilson
March 12, 2009 12:41 PM
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In some cases laptops, printers, and HDTVs are sold with a negative or near zero markup (which is subsidised by the huge margin add ons). In that case, selling the product \"naked\" would cost the company money. Sadly, these gimmicks will go on for ever, because people aren't willing to pay the premium for an honest, hassle free shopping experience.

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Mir Asif
March 12, 2009 2:04 PM
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Former OfficeMax Salesman here.
I never lied about the availability of laptops despite my manager yelling at me, never lied about what the warranties cover, or what the $6.00 store brand USB cable had less than the $20.00 Belkin one (answer: nothing).

Everytime my manager tried to fire me, my sales records shut him up. Highest sales, highest MaxAssurance (same as PPP) sales, best salesperson in All OMX everywhere. Without lying. everyone else did, they good great numbers too..

Point is, there are good salespeople, there were some at CC too, i'm sure. it's the middle management's greedy policies that make it a sour experience for customers as well as salespeople.

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tworld
March 12, 2009 2:35 PM
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Office Depot is another store to boycott and put out of business.

America should keep boycotting dishonest stores, until they finally understand it's the customers paying their salaries.

F#!* with the American consumer and you're history. Simple but effective.

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Customer_Service_Slave
March 12, 2009 4:03 PM
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Audition time, wonder if consumerist's value a different opinon that does not jump on the bashing bandwagon.


I am sickened by the comment the user made about going to the store, wasting the sales associate's time with no intention of buying there, then going home and purchasing it online.


Let me explain to you one thing. At the store I worked at, the salespeople made $4 an hour base plus commission. If everyone did as you had suggested, the poor salesman would not be able to feed his family. Do not take out your anger on the salespeople. As someone else said, they are only front line people. They don't decide how they get paid, but must do what they're told, simple as that. You wanna go against a manager's orders in this economy?


I swear some of the readers on this site are the most non-empathetic people I have ever heard in my life. I don't mind that people shop online, in fact I encourage it. Most people don't understand that if you sell nothing, you make nothing. And no, the salesman does not make much off your $400 laptop that has a store cost of $450.


When you go to the counter after having lead the salesman on (because of your sick games), and tell them that you only want the computer, then laugh when you see the salesman jaw drop, don't have a big =) on your face. You just dropped the guys wage from $10 an hour to $4.

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puka_pai
March 13, 2009 9:35 PM
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@Customer_Service_Slave:

At the store I worked at, the salespeople made $4 an hour base plus commission. If everyone did as you had suggested, the poor salesman would not be able to feed his family. Do not take out your anger on the salespeople. As someone else said, they are only front line people. They don't decide how they get paid, but must do what they're told, simple as that. You wanna go against a manager's orders in this economy?

Amen! I've seen the phrases \"stupid salesman\", \"corrupt salesman\" and similar throughout this thread. It's not the fault, or the idea, of the front-line person. If you really want to have this shit stop, write down the corporate number -- it's usually posted somewhere in the store -- and give them a piece of your mind.

I bought a laptop recently and just missed getting it from Office Depot when it was on sale. Instead I bought it direct from the manufacturer and it cost me $50 more than it would have from OD. I know they buy in bulk so they get better prices than I might, but you've gotta figure they're not making much if they're charging less than the mfr's online store.

Here's a suggestion: Instead of screwing with the lowly salesperson when they tell you it's out of stock, nicely and politely tell them you'll be happy to take a raincheck. And/or that you'll be happy to wait while they check other stores in the area for stock. If you can get a manager to do that, it will free up the salesperson to go make a buck and tie up the manager's time. Win-win in my book. And you may get yourself a laptop, too.

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chrisjames
March 12, 2009 5:48 PM
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Guh?! So Office Depot actually makes enough laptop sales to pull this off? Every time I go in (to get an idea on printer ink price fluctuations) the store is empty. And I don't mean Circuit City in 2007 empty; I mean Circuit City in 2010 empty. Never a customer, and sometimes no employees in sight.

Why decline a purchase, even a loss, unless they're expecting to get two more future purchases to cover it? I just don't think they're getting that much business. I could see other businesses buying from them, but in all my experience they either do that online, in bulk, or both. What a sorry distribution system if they divert store stock to cover online purchases.

Bizarre!

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Anonymous
March 12, 2009 5:58 PM
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Maybe Office Depot is trying hard to push the extra services because there really isn't much markup on laptop sales. I can imagine that if you buy a laptop on sale in most cases Office Depot loses money on that sale. Granted that it is never good practice to lie to your customers but I can't blame Office Depot for trying to make extra money and not lose thier company and jobs. And speaking from someone who purchaced a 700 dollar laptop 2 years ago and had it replaced because it went bunk, I'm thankful I was talked into spending the extra 70 bucks. I say blame the laptop companys for not making a indestrucable non-problematic laptop this way we won't need extra insurance.

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Kimaroo - 100% Pure Natural Kitteh
March 12, 2009 7:17 PM
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I bet the next thing will be that they won't sell me an office chair because I refuse to take the chair mat and cleaner kit.


I used to be such a huge fan of office depot... *sigh*

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trujunglist
March 12, 2009 11:10 PM
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I wonder when Circuit Depot is going out of business? Err, I mean Office City.. d'oh, I mean Office Depot!!! Argh, all of these stores with terrible customer service are all alike and it's melting my brain!

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Beth Dunlop
March 14, 2009 4:32 AM
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PISSED! The laptop I originally wanted at (suprise) Office Depot was conveniently \"out of stock,\" and I got a slightly pricier HP than the Toshiba I was looking at. Maybe if I'd gotten the Toshiba, I'd still have a laptop. About six months after I got it, it crashed completely, then I spent another month dealing with customer support BS, then I finally got a box to ship it for repairs. They finally admitted that they were \"aware that the computers had bad mother boards\"--despite everone prior just telling me plug/unplug/hold power key routine. So they fixed it. And by \"fix\" I mean didn't do much of anything. The only difference was that the computer would actually turn on, but still freeze or scramble at random. It worked for an hour or so, tops, before fritzing, and before I'd even had it a year, it gave it's last gasp. Then probably a year and a half after the original purchase, I got an email from HP telling me that if I still had my original motherboard, it needed to be replaced.


Geer, really? Screw laptop sales people. I'm buying refurbished online from now on.

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retailriter
May 31, 2009 12:33 PM
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Please remember the saying \"Don't kill the messenger\". Remember, it is the corporate powers-that-be sitting in the plush board rooms of Office Depot and the rest of these companies that are putting the pressure on these stores, and their low-paid salespeople, to push these add ons and up-sells, while enriching themselves and their shareholders with mega-milliion salaries.


I work at a major retailer where the commission sales people are hounded on a daily basis about meeting these exteneded warrenty \"numbers\", and are threatened with their very jobs if they are not. Most of the sales people would be more than happy to just sell good quality merchandise and provide good customer service, and leave it at that. They are FORCED into these types of practices by this kind of piss poor greed management.


For the CEO's of these companies, it's much easier to push the stores to sell all this add-on junk than to actually put thought and effort into selling great merchandising and gaining repeat buyers. It's all about the short-term, and the bottom line.


PLEASE write to the corporate offices about this, don't blame the little guy at the store level trying to pay his bills.

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calico
January 4, 2011 6:18 PM
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Yes its correct!, The structure is simple, OD do not make enough mark up with out the PPP or the Service plans. The Sales man does not get enough hours to work there with-out selling the ADD ON'S. Whats even worse is, getting these people to honor the PPP is like getting blood from a stone, you really have to push and shove. Its not like there even cheap, in most cases 1 third of the price almost half for a four year plan. And the services are a total flat out ripp off!, They use some crappy IP based company, NEXICORE to be exact, they do as little as possile, always give the PC back in a unfinished state, always 4 weeks to late and at out ragous prices like 349.00! for a simple swap out as such. And the poor old tech/sales guys are supposed to sort out all the problems that they cant be bothered to do. Obveously, the Tech sales guy is more intrested in making his 20% that can shrink to as low as 3% if sales margins(set by OD) are not met. Its one GIANT CON! from head to tow, and its expensive. People need to get more trust worthy of there local small computer shop and just forget about large retail giants all together. Other than that, Amazon, Directron, New egg are the only way.

Belive me, your not getting the best service...maybe 50-80 bucks worth at your local PC repair shop. As for the laptops stock...yeah sure, ive lied about stock, if its a sales item and a hot deal, im gonna hold onto it, so i can make my money off of some one else...dont blame the Sales man, blame the large corperate system of greed and keep being Exploited.

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