Wagoner says restructuring out of court would accomplish 99 percent of what could be achieved in bankruptcy. But he says it wouldn't have the risk of scaring away customers or the huge expense of Chapter 11.
GM CEO says bankruptcy would cause liquidation [AP]
(Photo:alyates44)
And to the person who compared a Chevy Malibu to a Lexus ES, get real. If you're going to make a comparison, please make sure you're comparing vehicles that are in the same class!
GM is going through a very tough time right now and working hard to get better at its core business.
]]>No kidding! I've felt like I was witnessing preschool-age tantrums ever since the financial crisis began. "But Ma, he's getting a bailout! I wanna bailout! If I don't get a bailout, I'm gonna lay down on the floor and scream! Waaaah!" How do we deal with tantrums, people? We ignore them!
]]>I'd be in favor of bailing them out IF the Michigan government would disengage its lips from their tailpipe long enough to do something for all the workers this would devastate.
It a law called EMINENT DOMAIN, and it would allow the government to seize their buildings, equipment and remaining assets and use those to (if they were smart, which I'm not saying they are) re-educate and re-employ workers. Or, you know, keep them all from losing their homes while they're unemployed.
It'll never happen, because Michigan's government is permanently fixed in doggy-style position with regards to car companies...but it would be the best way out, I think. Fuck 'em, yes, but don't let them take the workers (who did *nothing* to deserve this) with them.
]]>finaly I wont have to see or hear those freaking annoying commercials anymore!!!! ie; "my country" blah
]]>GM should just make engines and sell them to other manufacturers. They can shitcan the rest of their operation.
]]>Let them either come up with something that the American public will buy, or shut down. It's not my responsibility as a taxpayer to rescue them. I have never in my life received a stimulus check from GM, so, why should they see anything from me?
]]>Let them go through the bankruptcy process.
]]>And with Rick Wagoner's latest comment, I hope the bastard gets shanked. It serves no useful purpose but to dare people into action, or inaction, when cooperation with the feds (and therefore, taxpayers) is what GM should be doing.
It seemed impossible, but right wing dopes may have successfully turned me against this car company. If GM would go ahead and do what is necessary instead of relying on a new business model that asks for more federal money, they'd be on their way.
1. Accept a federally managed Chapter 11 bankruptcy. ("But what about our sales, nobody will..." Shut up. Nobody's buying them NOW, they don't have the money.)
2. New, reorganized company: Chevrolet Corporation. Makers of Chevy, Buick, Cadillac, and GMC. And that's it.
3. Renegotiate contracts with unions to guarantee better-than-living wages and pensions for workers. If Ford and the UAW can work in harmony, ChevyCorp can too.
4. New, more stringent rules for dealers that enhance the buying process and the brands being sold. Fairer, haggle-reduced pricing. Less intimidating service departments.
]]>You call yourselves a consumer friendly site. OK, when are you going to run the story that Toyota's Residual values cratered this past week? Fair is fair, no?
Gee huh huh, guess that's not news to a regular GM bashing site like Consumerist.
Do your job Consumerist don't make me do it for you. Here's here's the research, go read on it, write us a HUGE headline story with some snarky headline about Toyota. C'mon, you can do it......
The Automotive News has a big article on it, also see:
When you're done writing on that maybe you could write an article about Toyota begging the Japanese government for BILLIONS in a bailout. What, you didn't hear? Oh yes, Toyota is doing what GM is doing, only in Japan. So is Honda, and Nissan, you know the brilliant economic minds who build so many cars they can't keep them is stock. Yeah, those companies.
Come on Consumerist, I quote Ted Knight in Caddyshack:
"Well.........WE'RE WAITING...."
]]>We need to talk about the unions and exec compensation.
I liked the way Ben and Jerrys worked the highest paid salary was tied to the lowest paid salary. Truly all boats rise and sink togather. The times of excutive compensation abuse is ending one way or another. Don't cry about the free market and capitalism we really dont have either one in a pure sense. There are alot of very pissed off people in the lower economic end of the spectrum. I am afraid that things can get very bad and the country that emerges will not be the freedom loving place I grew up in. If you are wealthy you need to wake up and exercise your power to stop these abuses because all the money ,property,and stock options in the world will not stop the wave of a populace who has had enough and is filled with blood lust. In the last century look what happened in Russia and China. Go back a little further and look at France these are not little 3rd world no name countries and there are plenty of little countries that terrible things have happened during uprisings (cambodia shudder).If it worked out for the long run is not the point the wave of death and destruction by a pissed off populace is. Right or wrong class envy and disdain exsist they are real and can lead to a countries downfall. I wonder how many wealthy elitests went to the giotine in france thinking WTF.
Call his bluff! I'm tired of being his hostage - give us billions more or else we'll just liquidate and we're so big we'll take down millions of other jobs. I feel like I'm paying some thugs to watch my car in a bad part of town but I'm only paying them NOT to break into my car.
]]>Not likely...those unfortunate to own a GM currently (like me) will still need plenty of replacement parts...
]]>GM, say hello to Circuit City when you get to retail pergatory.
]]>If GM fails, who will pay the health care costs for all of the unemployed workers who depended on GM? Health care is the largest industry in Michigan... GM employees have very good health insurance.
What happens to our public universities that depend so much on tax money here in Michigan? University of Michigan is the largest employer in the state.
What would happen if Chinese investors bought most of the assets GM would liquidate?
Would workers in other states be ready to compete with the huge number of unemployed skilled workers that would migrate from Michigan to their states?
Like I said, my thoughts are a bit scattered, and this is a scary and frustrating time for us all. I'm just asking those of you who are saying "Fail GM, it's your own fault." to consider the fact that there are a lot of us here who would fail if GM was to fail. Maybe a bailout is not the answer, but complete failure is not the solution.
]]>@NoWireHangers: In January I rented a Corvette from Hertz (one of those ZHZ special edition cars) recently to see what a flagship, "halo" car from GM is like.
The thing was a squeaky, creaky, POS. Maybe the roof and brakes squeaked because it was a rental Corvette. But the dash was creaky, and that was most definitely not due to Hertz's bad maintenance.
I had a Camaro 15 years ago. First, the paint flaked off, which they fixed by repainting the entire car. Then the alternator went out on it with 27,000 miles after the warranty expired. And that was when I broke up with American car companies. The 'vette only reconfirmed my belief GM can't build a car to save it's life. Literally.
The money will likely go straight to higher up pockets of GM and the Union while the workers will get screwed anyway, it will simply just delay when they will have to bend over.
Nope, time to cut our losses and start letting these businesses fail. It is better to rip the bandaid off in one pull then this slow painful spiral we are currently in. Once bottom is achieved, the turn around can start.
Besides, busting that union may be beneficial in the long term. Yeah yeah "unions are wonderful!" to that I add "use to be". Now they don't really do a whole lot except line the pockets of the leadership of those unions (notice they live very good lifestyles). Unions had a time and place and they probably will again, just not currently.
]]>See ya, GM. Time to go belly up.
]]>Not to mention having my car email me every month with its maintenance report is excellent. I dont think I have ever been this careful on keeping my tire pressure.
]]>We have dozens of car companies to cover the loss of GM.
]]>On the other hand (this speaks to the 1 in 10 jobs that would be lost) My partner, here in Boston, has a great job for a digital marketing agency. His main account is GM. He doesn't particularly like it, but the salary is nice and the work interesting. If GM goes under he and about 500 of his co-workers would most likely lose their jobs.
Then we stop going out dinner, cancel the cleaning lady, drop cable, don't vacation and so on in an effort not to lose our condo. And the 500 others, in his agency alone do the same and the thousands of others, involved just in marketing GM and so on and so forth. Then you start thinking about local dealers, who buy radio advertising and lunch at the local diner, radio station lays off folks and diner goes under and so on and so forth.. could be much worse than anyone imagines.
The ramifications are truly
]]>I'm really torn. Being that I live in SE Michigan, GM closing down would be disastrous to our economy. However, I don't like their cars and feel like they should have seen the writing on the wall years ago when Toyota and Honda started pantsing them. They insisted on making the heart of their product line enormous gas-guzzling trucks instead.
]]>I knew a woman who dated an occasionally abusive loser, the type of loser who would say to her, "If you left me, I'd kill myself."
I advised her to leave him and that she would be better off cutting all ties with him, and not to be around if/when he self-destructs because he might kill her as well.
GM's pedantic whine sounds exactly the same.
]]>Kid 2: If you do that, the teachers will get upset with us for fighting and none of us will be able to come out for recess anymore.
Kid 1: I don't care what happens to the other kids. (breaks toy)
By being selfish bonus-grabbing idiots and running these companies into the ground, the CEOs and VPs and such are also putting a lot of people out of work who did nothing but honestly try to get their jobs done. And while the banks try to hold us hostage by threatening that our financial system will crash if we don't pay them off, the car companies are holding thousands of jobs over our heads and saying that the increased unemployment rate will cause the economy to crash.
"Pay the salaries we can't pay because we screwed up trying the run the company or the whole world will come crashing down."
]]>Buh buh, don't let the door hit you on the way out
]]>Not to mention if you have ever driven the European version of the Delta platform Astra, its a joy to drive, probably the best small car GM EVER made.
Of course GM brought it over and neutered it with a 4 speed auto and junktastic engine. Then refused to advertise it as a way to cripple Saturn. Just look at the Aura. The Malibu IS the Aura, yet one sells like hotcakes and the other barely moved.
]]>@NoWireHangers: I rented a cobalt while visiting my parents. I could barely get it to 55, one of the scariest highway experiences I've ever had. I'd rather be on the beltway at 5 in the evening
]]>Washington to GM: Thats what you get.
With the way Washington has been working though, I wouldn't be surprised if GM DOES get a bailout.
]]>I have hopes for its replacement, the Chevy Cruze. The automotive press has had good things to say about it. I've had several Cobalt rentals and they're not as primitive as Neons but I'd choose a Focus if I had to have an American car in that class... overall probably an Elantra if I were going on price, a Mazda3 if I wanted to enjoy it.
]]>Oh yeah! Capitalism!
]]>My current vehicle is a turbo diesel Volkswagen. Not only will I _never_ go back to GM, I'll never go back to a gasoline engine. The torque that little diesel motor has is incredible, and the mileage (averaging 500 miles on 12 gallons) is really good. Plus, none of that hybrid crap to worry about, like replacing a pallet load of batteries.
]]>People love to go on and on that we are, but history does a wonderful job of proving anyone who says that a moron who shouldn't talk.
]]>The Cobalt is relatively ancient and shouldn't be used as a benchmark to judge GM.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Cobalt debuted in '05? Maybe '04?
Perhaps you're thinking of the Cavalier, which the Cobalt effectively replaced, and was just as shitty.
]]>GM's new monster crossover (Acadia, Enclave, Traverse) is good for what it is... an enormous familymobile (usually used by one person) that gets highway mileage competitive with V6 midsize sedans.
Cadillac's CTS is an outstanding vehicle in its class... slotting close to the 5-series BMW in size and below the 3-series in real-world price and offering refinement never before seen in GM's US products.
The company isn't without product, they just have 30 years of mediocrity to live down.
]]>What I don't like about other cars is how sensitive the gas pedal is. Breath on it and you go flying, which I don't like. I like more control on my acceleration.
]]>Actually everyone I talk with shares the opinion that the bailout of the banks was/is as stupid as the bailout of the auto companies. They both made bad business decisions. It's not like need for their products or services disappears if they do. We still need cars, we still need banks -- it's just someone else will step in and fill those needs, and probably do it better. AND, in so doing will want to hire experienced people to meet those needs.
As a country we have bought into this "too big to fail" stuff for too long. We're only feeding the fire by continuing to perpetuate that myth.
]]>Sorry GM, but all good things must come to an end.
]]>American Motors, Duesenberg, Franklin, Hudson, Hupmobile, International Harvester, Kaiser, Nash, Packard, REO, and Studebaker, all lasted for a long time before going under. Is it time to ad GM to the list? BTW, GM came about because of the consolidfation and acquisition of several automakers. It has been near insolvency a couple of times in its history, but long ago.
]]>My jetta got hit and they put me in a cobalt. I felt like I was driving a go cart. When I broke 60 mph i thought the doors were going to fall off.
]]>Even though I drive a Chevy Silverado.... Lets let this happen just one time so everyone knows exactly what happens. The bailed out companies and the public. There are enough bean counters in D.C. to track exactly how big of an effect this has. Lets do it!
]]>Well how about this, tax payers bail you out, we all get a free Cobalt? God knows there's plenty to go around. I wouldn't really want to be a GM owner again... but if it was free...
Really though. I'm calling his bluff. I really don't think GM will liquidate.
]]>Spinoff time!!!!!
Chevy/Cadillac
Opel/Holden
Pontiac/Buick
Thats it.
]]>Well put!
]]>GM stands for Gimme Money!
]]>@ NoWireHangers: Perhaps if you had been driving an American-made car, you would still be driving it...
]]>Also, why do they keep threatening us? Seriously, this is the equivalent of a guy robbing you, then breaking his leg and threatening you to take him to the hospital, or ELSE.
Or maybe I'm just reading into too much of this... ah fuck.
]]>Feed the execs to polar bears and provide lush layoff packages to the hapless workers.
]]>I'm pretty sure that "1 in 10" number was brought up by the domestic auto manufacturers themselves. I don't buy it.
]]>It would be nice if some tangible thing of any kind was manufactured in the USA, but I guess it won't be cars if nobody wants to buy them. I've never considered a GM.
]]>Do you even realize how trivial the amount would be in comparison to what we have & will end up paying the banks...And in the long run, this will end up helping more to sustain the economy than bailing out banks who got fucked up dealing with all this derivatives crap.
]]>@ianmac47: Liquidate! That means Honda, Nissan and Toyota can get stuff on the cheap!
]]>Talk about a bluff.
]]>eliminate all those things & people would be buying just as much american steel as chinese steel. unfortunately, it would require reversing 100 years of advances for the american worker. are you prepared to give up your vacation/sick/family time, benefits, 40-hr work week, etc., etc.?
]]>Goodbye GM!
]]>High speed rail.
]]>I do see your point, but realistically where are we going to store all the new unwanted GM cars if we just keep them going for the hell of it? Basically we're supposed to support an industry (and the rest of its food chain) even if people don't want the product?
]]>GM is a like addict looking out for another hit. You've seen that show on A&E? Intervention.
Well GM needs it. GM needs to sink or swim. We can't keep putting money into a business that perpetually loses money. Once, even twice is fine.. But really, they think they are going unlearn the last 35 years of mistakes in 6 months? No way.
I have more faith in the financial institutions paying the bailout money back before I think GM ever would, or be around to.
]]>Fine, go ahead and liquidate.
And fuck you, Wagoner.
]]>fire rick wagoner
replace him with someone with backbone
]]>Although, bailing them out would cost a fraction of what bailing AIG out costs.
]]>@failurate: Yep, and it's not resting in peace either. It sold its soul to the devil.
]]>I think General Mills should acquire General Motors. The overhead of making cars out of cereal would be much less than steel. Probably more successful than GM on it's own, too. ;-)"
And we could all use a little more iron in our diets.
]]>I think General Mills should acquire General Motors. The overhead of making cars out of cereal would be much less than steel. Probably more successful than GM on it's own, too. ;-)
]]>Sounds like the best overall solution to me.
]]>Honk if I'm paying your mortgage
]]>I think it's clear that if the government feels the "need" to help those workers and communities that would be devastated by GM's closing, it would be best served directly helping to address the problems there, rather than flushing more $ down the toilet so GM can fly Wagoner home to Seattle every weekend.
NOW is the time for the Government to call the bluff of these businesses and unions that seem to want to issue stupid ultimatums such as this.
Tell them to POUND SAND!
]]>Why does this sound like a ransom note?
]]>No, your shitty cars and the shitty economy are scaring off customers. Chapter 11 really wouldn't change that.
Call their bluff, America.
]]>Wagoner's comments have to be considered extortion or treason. Make sure he gets nothing in compensation and be sure that he never gets another job.
]]>Chevy Volt? Please... this was just a show car they pulled off the stage as a bone for the congressional dogs to gnaw at. If they electric car was a viable option for mass consumption then the Japanese would have already done it. The only thing the Volt will do is suck more money from the taxpayers that WON'T buy it.
As for job losses and an economic death spiral into the ground. Parts manufacturers don't just make parts for only one car company, that would be suicide. They will live on, perhaps with some job cuts but they will survive. As for the factory's... Hello Mr. Asian auto maker, want to buy a factory cheap? The technology will already be in place and a workforce willing to work will be knocking on your door when you decide to start making cars again.
I predict that if GM is allowed to go under, the will be back in 10 years anyways...
]]>The Republican leadership believed in trickle down economics. I do not believe it is true. What will happen if GM fails? Other companies will fill the gaps that are more suited to meet REAL demand versus perceived (GM is in need of failure, just to shuffle the blind and deaf leadership).
]]>Too much anger, I know. I'm not a big regulation fan, but frankly I'm starting to hanker for some legislation that would prevent ANY company from becoming 'too big to fail.' Oh, and for it to be enforced, no exemptions!
]]>And I can't resist expressing my anger at GM, because I think GM's threat is just plain un-American. The way I understand it, the GM CEO needs to start speaking the truth, which would go something like this: 'We've let the American people down by failing for decades to keep up with foreign competition, and all of our little tricks we've used in the meantime to boost sales, such as "Buy American" campaigns and GMAC's financing gimmicks have finally come home to roost.' Then he needs to commit to methodically deconstructing the business through bankruptcy, receivership or whatever, and rebuild it with a structure that has a chance of surviving. IMHO.
]]>You could prefer a Keynesian approach. But you'd be wrong. Keyenes' theory is naive and short-sighted. It doesn't lower (or prevent) unemployment. It simply converts productive private sector jobs into bloated government agency jobs. It can't spur growth because what it needs to spend must first be siphoned from the private sector where wealth is actually produced. Keyenes' theory is as effective on the grand scale as an individual transferring $1000 from his savings to his checking (while pocketing $30) and then proclaiming a spike in income. True to form, all booms have busts, but the busts in the 20th century have only been prolonged and deepened by Keyenesian economics while sadling future generations with massive debt.
]]>Good bye!
]]>I was just a few blocks from GM headquarters on Monday, and the GM employees were out along the river for a lunch walk. Lots of H1B employees, which made me wonder why again I should "buy American"?
]]>I wonder how many actual jobs would up and disappear as a result of this. Most large suppliers already outsource their work to China or Mexico.
]]>I hear Sepuku is all the rage these days.
]]>Who's asking to play with GM's toys these days?
]]>That's not a bad idea. Or maybe give Honda and Toyota 20 billion each to woo them into uprooting their HQ to America. Even that would accomplish more than throwing good money after bad.
]]>That won't solve anything. It will just create another "Too big to fail" company and we'll be back to square one in 10 years.
]]>No, they'll start pricing them at 40% above MSRP and post signs that say 30% off!
]]>@Jabberkaty: In other words:
"Go ahead, make my day!"
]]>The gall! The utter gall... Just get on with it!
]]>I don't think you all understand, they will be bailed out because if GM fails and it will unless kept on life support the Unions will be hurt and the Union Restructering is why they will be bailed out because the Unions basically are an arm of the Democratic Party
And the Lord Art God Obama will not let his Unions fail though they have destroyed Michagian and the rust belt as it's now known
]]>I have read that around 1 in 10 jobs would simply dissappear if the domestic auto makers collapsed. Granted we are only talking about 1 domestic auto maker here but I am not sure we want another few percent surge in the unemployment rate right now.
That being said, I think they need to declare banruptcy so they can rid themselves of their unions and their crippling contracts, and start over. Foreign auto makers are able to make a profit assembling cars in this country and part of the reason for that is that their employees are more reasonably compensated for their work.
]]>While I agree that a bailout would infact save the company would help the economic recovery of the nation, I cannot see the justification of saving a company that has so many times failed us in the past at either providing a decent vehicle or the continuation of producing cars that people cannot afford to drive. I site such cars as the Aveo and the Cobalt as examples of taking a good idea and cheapening it anyway possible. And this isn't just recent. About 15 years ago, my father bought a Chevrolet Cheyenne brand new. It wasn't but 4 years later did the radiator go out. My father had it replaced by Chevy 4 times before he took it to an independent mechanic who replaced the unit with a better radiator. That radiator lasted another 5 years before my dad traded the vehicle in for a minivan. Its things like that incident that leave a sour taste in my mouth about the brand.
If they want bailout money, they need to first show us that they are willing to put the customer first this time around.
]]>Allow Saturn to throw away its GM imposed chains and be the small efficient car line it could have been...
Viva Saturn...though it may be too late.
]]>That being said if the taxpayer is suppose to bail them out, they should all be given a GM made vehicle. Seems fair to me.
]]>But I like buying over priced low quality junk so some union jackass with a GED can make more than many university grads...and have better benefits.... Granted it is not the unions fault that management is retarded enough to allow the UAW to exploit the company...
]]>FUCK GM.
]]>Use the rest of that money for enticements to get other businesses to operate something useful in GM's old factories. Wind generator manufacturing, solar panel manufacturing, battery manufacturing, other car companies. Do something to get those parts suppliers and employees first crack and working for these new companies.
GM can't fight their way out of a paper bag.
]]>just kidding. it read it as GMAC, not actually GM.
]]>Why is North America (especially the US) in such a mess that the only company that is really supporting the raw materials suppliers and parts suppliers is GM?
Well, I know the answer for the raw materials suppliers: Protectionism. The US keeps using it and it keeps hurting the US in the long term as other countries tell you to keep your steel (and other materials) in your own buildings if you want to play it that way.
Let GM fail. Let the rest of the chain fail. They will rebuild the US government by lobbying them to stop this protectionism bullshit and the US will be better for it in the long run.
Or keep cutting yourselves off from the long term global trades market by protecting local business in the short term and let the rest of the world pass you by.
Just my 2 cents.
]]>na na na na, na na na na, hey hey hey, goooodbyeeeee.
]]>they'll liquidate, sell off the debt, then we'll say prove it and then we'll have free cars.
sounds like a plan to me.
]]>@waybaker:
True...but think of it as a painful, yet necessary economic adjustment back to reality.
]]>On the one hand, if they Liquidate lots of people will lose their jobs and the economy will plunge itself nose-first into the substrata for another 5-10 years.
On the other hand, if they Liquidate... CHEAP NEW CARS FOR A FEW MONTHS!
I'm torn.
]]>Why prop up an antiquated, inefficient, gaping money pit when you can give money to something that is effective and working instead?
]]>I'm glad other people see it that way. I'm not the only one.
]]>"Chief Wiggoner."
]]>Bailing them out sounds like a bad idea because it uses tax payer money, but if you stop and think about the ripple effect that a car manufacturer shutting down would have, the chunk of money we would be sending them would be small.
If GM shuts down, all their part suppliers will likely shut down. If the part suppliers shut down, the raw material suppliers shut down. Not to mention all the car dealerships, aftermarket parts dealers, and the indirect loss of the income of these people helping to create economic growth.
]]>moneying... really? ugh
]]>Let em fail and use the money it would take to bail them out (again) and use it to re-educate the laid-off workers so that they can find jobs in new, sustainable industries.
]]>Nope, just pouring moneying into a bucket with a gaping hole in the bottom...
We need to let these "big" guys die off and be replaced smarter, more efficient companies - Survival of the fittest
]]>