![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-479856-100x100.png\")
Somebody obviously misled her in the sales process. If you had any clue about how download limits work and what that effectively means for P2P stuff, you wouldn't have agreed to Satan's data plan.
Somebody obviously misled her in the sales process. If you had any clue about how download limits work and what that effectively means for P2P stuff, you wouldn't have agreed to Satan's data plan.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/css/images/default.gif\")
If the 5gb cap is disclosed in the contract, then she has no legs on this one. And as with the $26+K bill for the guy and the cruse ship, AT&T said they send text messages. This is a fail on AT&T's part because Netbooks and data connect cards can't receive SMS.
I still have to say, why is it AT&T's fault for telling the customer what they are doing? I believe the software that gets installed on your PC shows transfer amounts at the top of your screen.
@pmcpa2: When I was working with AT&T Wireless about a month ago, they had started putting blocks on those who had started getting overage. Just straight out service interruption.
They'd call first level, who'd have no idea this was implemented or what to look for, who transfers them to Advance Network Support, who'd tell you your service was blocked for overage and they'd have to transfer you back to first level, who doesn't know what the heck to do.
Normally, by the time we got these calls, the customer was already over by 2, 3 gigs.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-587956-100x100.png\")
@pmcpa2:
IMO if ATT didn't/doesn't provide a consistent \"bytes-ometer\" that is plainly visible to the consumer, nor any warning that they reached their 5gB limit, then I'm at 70% ATT's fault/30% consumer's fault. Data is different than cell phone minutes (as far as monitoring goes) because the average person can identify that \"this call has been going on forever\". Whereas it's much harder to identify that \"this video is compressed poorly and has been sucking down tons of bandwidth in these past 25 minutes\".
When I signed up for my VZW data plan, I read those data-usage terms very carefully. And I was also appalled that they advertised the plan as \"unlimited\", but then had an obvious 5gB limit in the text of the agreement.
The difference is that VZW's language stated that they had the option to shut off my service if I hit 5gB, not charge me thousands of dollars. Which in the end I'm OK with because I used my data plan for the commute on the train and only hit 800mB on my worst month.
Anyone know if this absurd charge is unique to ATT, or do the other guys do it too?
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-564421-100x100.png\")
@ScottRose: I can remember when AT&T was rolling out their \"unlimited data plans\". I was working for them at the time. Turns out, the 5gb cap was a \"soft limit\" meaning that once you hit 5gb, AT&T would monitor your usage to determine if you needed to be shut off for massive downloads and streams, or if AT&T needed to come up with higher usage plans.
Of course, that's what we were fed to inform customers about at the time. Don't know how much of it is actually true.
I also know that if the plans have been changed to the 5gb being a cap, any overages would be something like .0159 cents per kb, which could really add up. Now, that may have changed since I worked at AT&T, but even then, it was a ridiculous amount for data.
That amount $.0159 sounds about right for data costs/kB on most providers. In the right ballpark, I mean.
So $.0159 * 1,000,000 (gig = 1,000,000 kilo) = $159.00.
Then how in the hell are they billing $480 / gB?
Whoops, I took the result as being in cents. Shit that's a lot of money. $15,900.
$480 is a fantastic deal! :)
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-8146-100x100.png\")
@pmcpa2: nyet. The 3G connection application on this laptop is capable of receiving SMS messages; they show up when you log in.
What the app does *not* have is any sort of consistent data counter-it only shows what you've used in that particular session. Doubled with AT&T's site not reporting data usage in a timely manner, and it's easy to go over the limit. I returned mine within the 30-day trial period and was only stuck with the activation fee and a pro-rated monthly charge.
@djsyndrome: I take it back then! I have only seen older \"Cingular\" software, and from what I remember, it had an odometer on the top of the screen.
@pmcpa2: yeah, they include a newer app that does look a little nicer than the old one. It's still nothing to write home about, though.
additional oddity: in the event that you have to use the restore partition, they also include a copy of this app in the box - on a CD. Which does zero good for a system without an optical drive.
@pmcpa2: Actually she does have a leg to stand on. How is it possible that the first 5 gigs are priced at $12 a gb, and every gig after that is priced at $480. It's like some kind of cruel bait and switch. If you just go 512mb over that 5gb cap, you will be paying out the ass. If all her data was priced the same, her bill would have been 60 + 120. Which is somewhat reasonable if you actually believe wireless data is some kind of precious limited resource.
If there rates are going to be that exorbitant, they need to disclose the per gigabyte cost up front and set it so you get a popup warning when you hit the 5gb limit. And give you the ability to set it to shut off when it hits the limit.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-105855-100x100.png\")
@pmcpa2: Contracts have been made moot previously in court cases due to the average person not being able to understand the legal terms used within.
Likewise, if anyone remembers, AT&T did advertise their service as Unlimited.
@Papa Midnight: But the store doesn't say \"unlimited.\" It clearly says she subscribed to the 5 gig plain. Don't get me wrong, AT&T and it's former Cingular need to all die.
@pmcpa2: Indeed this is true. However, if she was not informed of the limitation, she probably has standing. On that note, let us not forget that most people don't even know what a GigaByte is.
This woman is on crack.How the hell can you run up a $5000 overage ,and have the gross irresponsibility to blame the seller for it?That's like me getting a ticket for 50 over ,then suing GM for making a car capable of 100 MPH.
@Silversmok3: No, that's like GM selling you a charging plan for your new super duper electic vehicle. They sell you on a cost of only $2 per day, presuming an average usage of X watts per hour, which they equate with 50km of driving.
Of course, you're an average US car buyer, you don't understand watts and you don't really know kilometers because we use miles, plus you drive in real life conditions - all times of day, night, and all traffic conditions - and you don't grasp how much each affects power usage. Their estimate, on the other hand, is based on very strict and limited testing conditions that only exist in fantasy test courses where they use no lights or wipers or radios and only accelerate once in that 50km of driving.
Then, after your first month of usage, where you enjoy zipping around in your new electric car so much, they bill you not an average of $2 per day but $180 per day and feel they can get away with it because 1) the rate is buried in the fine print 2) it \"couldn't have been\" glossed over by the salesman because salesmen are honest 3) The average consumer should be perfectly capable of reading and understand all the technical details that it took their engineers and lawyers and salesmen so much effort to obfuscate so completely.
There's one reason and one reason only for such charges and that's to take advantage of consumers. They could easily cut them off, throttle them, warn them, or have more reasonable and even graduated charges for additional GB of usage. Twice the usage of a plentiful resource should not cost 80 times as much.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-839114-100x100.png\")
@Silversmok3: Ummm Yea? ... that comparison doesn't make much sense... More like the lady leasing a car and the dealership and car maker not properly disclosing how many miles she can drive on it... and then grossly over-billing her when she goes over her limit.
@Tito151: and to build off that analogy about leasing the car, it's like the lease contract saying 10K miles in the contract without specifically telling you, giving you a car without an odometer, and then giving you a huge charge because they tracked the car by GPS and SAY you went over.
@Silversmok3: Did you read the article. The lawsuit says \"neither plaintiff nor other consumers were informed, nor could they have reasonable discerned from the paper work that wireless Internet usage exceeding 5GB per month would result in astronomical charges running into the thousands of dollars.\" This is not like suing GM for a speeding ticket. Unless GM sent you a separate ticket for $20,000 because you drove their vehicle too fast.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-159178-100x100.png\")
Do they provide a way to measure your usage, real time?
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-470935-100x100.png\")
I hate to break it to the staff writing, but 5gb over the course of a month isnt very much at all... Just 166mb per day.. or 20mb per hour in an 8 hour day.. maybe she uses it for work? Vpn? Who knows..
Since it was a new Netbook, odds are there are a bevy of Drivers and Updates that will stream to the machine over the course of the first month. Any software package downloads are going to hit her too.
A small ammount of time on Youtube, a net radio station, or heaven forbid, netflix would easily overwhelm the connection.
@thebluepill: Agree, I have the sprint plan (everything under the sun for 99 including unlimited data), 5gb is nothing. A few firm supported updates, hulu or any online video would eat up the 5 gb in a few days.
@lars2112: Yeah, I'm pretty sure I've used 5GB in a DAY, just browsing YouTube or Hulu, much less using P2P software.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-1037-100x100.png\")
@RedSonSuperDave: @HogwartsAlum: Agreed, it's silly too because they usually end up throwing out these huge bills when the customers call up and complain about getting a $20K phone bill. So it can't even be that profitable to them. Now if they charged a reasonable overage like $10/GB, they'd probably be able to collect more often from people who go over the limit and then everyone wins.
It would be nice if they were forced by law to disclose how much a variety of data usages would cost in a given month, I mean in addition to the original 5GB/Month plan. They wouldn't sell any if the plan read something like this: 5GB only $60! 6GB Only $540! 10GB only $2460!
There is no reason for AT&T to charge that much for their service. If they don't want people going over a certain limit because of bandwidth limitations, then they should cut people off. But then again, it's more lucrative this way.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-349596-100x100.png\")
@OMAC: My satellite internet does that. If you go over your monthly allotment, it'll sloooowwww yyyyoouuu down. I've never come close but I've heard of the horror from my father.
It's a pretty effective tool. He's getting verizon DSL.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-91037-100x100.png\")
Let me see if I can do the math here: On the AT&T wireless site is says $0.00048/KB when over 5 gig (It says that clearly, I might add). So that is about $500 per gig over. So she went over by 10 gigs!!? WoW
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-169958-100x100.png\")
@Joewithay: compare that to what my data plan is on verizon, i think it's $0.02/mb (i'm not positive, since i don't use the data plan)
@Joewithay: That's deceit in itself, in my mind. Not many people understand the difference between a kilobyte, megabyte, or a gigabyte. Some people just want internet and the sales person says \"Oh, there's no way you'll go over 5 gigs!\"
@Joewithay: It's nice that you put the actual charges up. Thanks. I'm sorry but most people look at $0.00048 and think that is a low number. That is a very deceiving. It would be like charging people by the nanometer.
It's amazing that these stories seem to pop up all the time. I can't imagine how many instances that happen that don't get picked up by the media. It's pretty clear to see that these companies lie in wait for naive customers to trot unsuspectingly past their allotted amount. I would blame the consumer for looking at their contract close enough, but I seem to read about similar stories often enough to suspect that maybe the companies probably go out of their way to \"downplay\" that important part of the contract.
I hope that some future legislation forces these companies to have the consumer opt in to a status alert when they approach 90% of an agreed spending limit. (whatever happened to those? I used to get them before, but not in some years now)
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-4587-100x100.png\")
@Slow2Whine: I wish the Consumerist would lead the charge in this. Wireless overages are the most blatant abuse of consumers next to mandatory binding arb.
It's true that 5GB is not that much. I myself rack up about 3GB a month just doing Windows Updates and my weekly Adobe Reader and Java upgrades.
I'm wondering if Billie was deliberately mislead or if she just failed to read the contract. I find it hard to believe that ATT wouldn't include information concerning the 5gb cap and overages in any of the paperwork.
@sapere_aude: LOL, read the contract? Haha. Good one. Even if the average customer does read it, they have no idea what a kilobyte is. Plus it could never be considered reasonable to charge 480 dollars a gigabyte after charging only 12 dollars a piece for the first 5.
@Corporate_guy: I made no effort to defend the rates that AT&T charges for overages. Personally, I would never sign a contract with AT&T for anything. I just don't see how a consumer that fails to learn any terminology referenced in a contract justifies a class action lawsuit.
@sapere_aude: If everyone had to understand it before they could get the service, no one would get the service.
I sell these at Radioshack,so allow me to clear the air a bit.
The data cap is disclosed in the contract you sign in the store.Since its a part of the agreement to get the aircard in the first place,its her basic responsibilty to read before she signs.
The netbook in question is an Acer that runs XP,with data handled via an ATT connection client.The client will tell you to the KB exactly what data you have transmitted that session,as well as lifetime transfer info.Without the client window being open there can be no active ATT connection.
To add,maybe its just common sense to not download terabits of data on a laptop with 250 GB of hard disk space.To exceed the cap the way this lady has,she had to be doing something shady-unless she was slingboxing 24-7 over the 30 day billing period.
This is a fraud on her part-shes wasting time when there are honest cases of corporate fraud happening right and left.And did she inform the sales associate that shed be downloading hundreds of gigs of data a month?
Installing the Steam client on any PC could cause you to download much more than the 5GB cap allows. I probably have 30GB worth of Steam games on my desktop. I don't think for a minute that they would all run on a netbook, but older games might be able to work on a netbook.
Also, it's not really a data cap. A data cap implies that you have a 5GB download limit. This is not the case since they just charge you WAY more for anything over 5GB.
Remember, this is a 1gb RAM netbook-not a gaming machine or a media desktop computer.I ask anyone interested in buying these computers exactly how they plan to use it, and I make it clear theres a 5GB cap.No customer ive sold these to ever complained to me that it wasnt enough.
Now, lets come back to the case at hand. She's alleging that ATT/Radioshack defrauded her into running up a $5000 bill.For one, she signed a 2 year contract specifying the 5gb cap, and the consequences if she passes that. To add, the ATT software specifies the exact airtime useage, so she cant say she had no clue she passed 5gb.
We sit here and condemn mortgage borrowers for not reading the terms of their loan contract, but give a pass to a lady who does the same thing? Granted its over a computer, but reading what you sign is reading what you sign. By not reading and signing anyways, youve only got the face in the mirror to blame if shit hits the fan.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-570476-100x100.png\")
@Silversmok3: Yes, she probably should have watched her usage a little better, but I mostly took offense to how you portrayed her for using that much in a month. \"Remember, this is a 1gb RAM netbook-not a gaming machine or a media desktop computer.\" Doesn't matter when you consider the situation I gave. You don't need a lot of computing power to download updates, install programs (instant messengers, OpenOffice, etc.), or stream music or video. These small machines are capable of a lot more than you think, and there's no reason to automatically assume she's doing something fishy. Now, if this was through an older cellphone like mine, then I'd be curious how she managed it, but with this it seems reasonable to me.
@Silversmok3: So, if I download a high volume of data over the first month I own a new computer, I must be doing something shady? Windows Updates on a new machine alone can hit you for at least a couple of gigs. Downloading other programs to install on your *new* machine can also drive up that amount. And how do you know she wasn't doing something legit, like a work-related task that involved high download amounts? Or legally streaming music (through a service such as Pandora) or video (via Hulu)? With something like that, you're not saving all of the data you download, so hard drive space means nothing. Sure, you could argue that she should have watched her usage levels, but calling her \"shady\" and \"a fraud\" smells like bullshit to me. When you start giving overage costs per MB or GB instead of unreasonably useless KB costs, then I might be more sympathetic.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-329134-100x100.png\")
@Silversmok3:\"To exceed the cap the way this lady has,she had to be doing something shady-unless she was slingboxing 24-7 over the 30 day billing period.\"
So using legitimate, if bandwidth intensive software is \"something shady\" now? Ever heard of Steam? I could kick off over 20gb of downloads on a given computer just by signing in and wanting to play some games (not even play them online). Ditto for multitudes of other services that deliver content via the internet. Not to mention that you can download legitimate stuff from BT as well - Linux distros, music the artists WANT shared, legal documents, etc.
@Silversmok3: This is why you don't buy anything at RadioShack. First. She should have been able to download a Terabit of information since that only equals around 100 Gigabytes. Second she downloaded less than one twentieth of the amount of data you are saying she shouldn't have downloaded. You could easily download the amount of data she did if she streams HD video from Hulu or Netflix. 250GB is plenty of space for most people.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-33580-100x100.png\")
@thezone: Uh...1TB is 1024 GB. I dont think streaming video over 3G would be fun to watch. That would buffer for ever!
Seen a cell phone commercial lately? Have not cell companies been pushing the ability to stream video via 3G for several years now? I do not use my phone to stream video, but I can see where one would get the impression that it is fun.
@Silversmok3: Why does your math not match the math of the people above? Some have calculated that the overage is around 10 GB. You are saying it had to be an astronomical amount to achieve her bill.
So if you are the guy selling these things, what are you telling your customers?
@failurate: before i actually sell these things i ask em what they're using it for. i let them know that gaming, slingbox, etc will KILL the 5 gb cap easily. it states on the contract a 5 gb limit each month with the overage rate stated. a little over a yr ago it was unlimited, but they decided taht since only ~3% of users exceeded 5 GB they will cap it at that. if you had an unltd plan it states in the fine print that if you go over they have the right to cancel your service at any time.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-431264-100x100.png\")
How could this happen?
She must have terrific coverage. I mean what does 3G do for speed? I could see if she went home and went via Wi-Fi or or ethernet to d/l that much in a month...
Ohhh.. I think I know what happened.
Perhaps she was d/l'ing things at home through her 3G instead of her broadband (wired/wireless) connection... Ok, that I can see.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-738213-100x100.png\")
The point is that failing to read a contract should not result in a $5000 penalty-- if these companies are going to charge fees like this there should be a dinger that goes off and a big pop up box that says WARNING: YOU HAVE EXCEEDED USAGE, YOU ARE BEING CHARGED...
Better yet- law should be they can't charge you more than the price of the plan would have been that would have allowed such usage-- so $200 instead of $5000- much more reasonable.
@JGKojak:
So, because some consumers don't understand what their contract means, I should only be limited to buying $200 worth of data?
I completely agree that it would be nice for AT&T to provide a pop-up, but their failure to do so in no way excuses this woman from the contract that she signed.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-97354-100x100.png\")
5GB per month is not much. If she was doing 200Gb a month maybe I would get on board with these accusations of doing something shady...but 5GB? I probably came close to using 5GB a month of data in the days of dial-up.Sure it would be fine for light web browsing/e-mail/etc. But moderate to heavy use could peg 5GB with no problems, and doing nothing shady.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-297205-100x100.png\")
@RonDiaz: The connection is intended to be used for light internet/corporate intranet via VPN. The reason it is targeted at that market is because it is a high-cost luxery/business service. It isn't something the average consumer would need. It is for checking email and agendas while waiting for your flight and the like. As such, I think the service itself is not over-priced, and very little fault along that line should fall on ATT. What fault they deserve is in their marketing department that thought this was a good match to make with Radio Shack. A subsidized $100 netbook is targeted at a market that is decidedly not luxery/business. This is not to say that those markets don't look for good deals, just that a retail Radio Shack store (an assumption on my part, could easily have been online or via the phone, but the point stands) is not their first stop when looking for equipment. Quite simply, this offered deal is targeted at a demographic that the service is not suitable for. I'd split this blame as 60% to Radio Shack, 30% ATT, and 10% consumer. It appears that nobody did their due diligence in this case, but some may even have actively avoided it.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-414437-100x100.png\")
Full disclosure: I used to work for RadioShack, where I my job description was basically \"whore these cell phones and data plans, oh yeah, guys might come in here asking about TVs and cables and parts and crap, they're over there in the back of the store\".
I cannot speak for everyone at Radioshack, because they are commissioned sales people. With any commisioned position, there is quite a bit of room for sleeze bags, but also quite a bit of room for really good people who are passionate about technology. So, while I was sure to mention and detail overage charges for data plans, some may not have been, since cell phone sales/data plans are usually the bulk of a person's salary.
However, if they were not told by the sales person, the documents that were signed are honestly pretty vague, and tell you more about the phones features than the details of the contract. I often wondered how it can possibly legally bind you to an agreement, as there are very very few contract details presented.
Thats one thing i love about my data plan
1. i get a text message from my provider at 80% of my wireless data limit
2. I get a second message at 100% of my monthly data limit.
so if i go over its totally my fault for being stupid
unless it was a hand written contract, it will state for her the limit and overage rate. only around 3% of people actually exceed 5 GB/mth. after selling these things for a while, i've only seen one person have an insane bill. the kid was plugging it into his xbox and he had almost a $5 k bill. he sucked it up and paid it, since it states it in your contract and we make sure not to sell them without telling them what NOT to use it for.
I actually work at Radioshack presently, to state. The pay is a hybrid hourly/commission. You DO make a commission off selling these aircards. I sold one a couple of days ago to a gentleman, checked the Daily Sales option in the POS system and it showed $60 for the SPIFF. If you are a sales associate, MIT, or a manager, you do make commission off this product; cell phones, RSSPs (if you do enough of them), performance SPIFFs, etc.I tell the customer straight off that you have a 5GB limit and it is NOT to be used for heavy data usage like videos, movies, games, file-sharing, etc. Mostly because I am not into deceiving the customer to get that $60, but because I honestly look at it as it is the CUSTOMERS money. What good is an effin return because you wanted to just get the sale? Also, you lose the customer on top of it. Unfortunately, my new manager does not see it that way and has asked me to start pushing this product and others down a customer's throat and literally, \"make them spend every cent they have on them\".
@bleigh: Telling someone what not to use it for is pretty meaningless. You have to tell them the kind of bill they could expect if they use such services. But of course if you told them they could see 5k bills for watching youtube videos or VPNing into a work network you will lose a sale.
@bleigh: So you don't think telling someone that the rate is in fractions of a penny is deceptive? I'm going to test Radio Shack employees today and see what they tell me. I wonder if they are all as forthcoming as you.
@thezone: seeing as i'm not commissioned, they probably won't be. i'm sure if you make commission off of those things it's a fat paycheck. i have a full run down of what you could do each month with 5 gb, and i show it to each customer and say oh hey, if you do more than X amount of pictures/music downloads, it could make you go over.
@verucalise: Yeah it would be better to put it into $/MB or $/GB so the customer would have a better idea. So I do agree, it is a bit deceptive by AT&T.
Its pretty well known by people that work in ATT customer support that there are tons of accounts that exceed the 5g limit and they are not contacted in any way. this is corporate thievery. although credits are given as a common practice, they know that many of those 2k+ overages are getting paid. I was a mobility call center manager and I can say without question that between the errors on accounts and sales reps that are misleading so they can get their quotas and not get fired, there have been many discussions and focus groups on how flawed the 5g cap is. It is now just being ignored because its making to much money. It was originally referred to as a \"Silent Cap\" by the higher ups. remember if you can the $99 limit cap charge? Well that was removed without any fanfare due to the loss of overage revenue. So please sue away until they get it right.
I don't understand companies that do this kind of overage billing. If 60 bucks gets her 5GB, then shouldn't ATT continue something similar to that for overage? I can understand ATT doubling it. Charge 60 for the first 5GB and then 120 for the next 5GB then 180 for the next 5GB...Maybe I'm over simplifying it...
If she was transferring 10GB of data in a month, she certainly has at least above average knowledge of technology. You don't accidentally double your allotted data amount by sending emails and reading consumerist.
For 10GB/month, you can send 3.4 million emails assuming each email is 1 text page w/o attachments at approx 3 KB. Or you could view about 70,000 web pages at approx 150 KB. Or view 21,000 low res pics at 500KB/each.
Any other usage would indicate she does have some sort of above average internet experience - therefore, she should understand how data transfer works.
Actually, it doesn't suggest any such thing. Maybe she's using her laptop to watch movies online. That doesn't require much knowledge. Maybe a family member is using it to download porn or she has a kid that sits on youtube watching videos all day.
@WaywardSoul: It doesn't require loads of knowledge, no. BUT, she should still understand the basics of data transfer.
I can only hope that a family member is dl'ing porn. That would really spice up the conversation.
I almost agreed that she should, but having thought about it a moment I don't. I watch little video from the Internet but by and large unless I'm explicitly downloading and saving the content to my hard drive I don't see much mention of files sizes and such.
With all the different players, different codecs, different bitrates, and the varied responsiveness and transfer speeds from the sites at different times of days a person can't tell, much beyond a guess (or a general idea as I become more educated or experienced), how big a transfer a particular video involves.
I've downloaded 200MB videos that last 10 minutes and are encoded so poorly as to be unwatchable, even by 10-15 year old standards. Then again I've downloaded 20MB videos that look far better than my tv. One day, one site, and a 20MB video might download in five minutes for me. Same day, another site, and that 20MB video might take 2 hours. If all they have is a \"buffering\" prompt rather than a byte count how would a person be expected to know that one copy isn't 24 times as large (or as small).
@invisiblenemies: using Pandora/youtubeHD is just *so* savvy, huh? If you think going over a 5gb cap is difficult for someone of \"average internet experience\", you're grossly underestimating both the internet, and it's users.
@Jakuub: I don't think it's necessarily savvy - but I think you're overestimating the general public's use of online services.
How can these companies provide a limit and not give users a way to monitor it? It's like cell phones not giving you a way to check how many minutes you used and then charging you for going over? is that how cell phones used to have it until there was a class action lawsuit? i bet if you call AT&T or comcast or whoever and ask them how much you used because you don't want to go over, they probably won't or can't even tell you.
@bravo369: This is patently untrue and I wish more people knew about air cards before spouting off about AT&T's fraudulent practices. You can monitor your usage as easily as you can monitor the mileage on your car, the usage is right on the little dashboard you use to connect via aircard. It's not hidden, you just need to be diligent about checking it, akin to keeping your mileage in check on a leased vehicle.
I had a customer at Best Buy whose bill ran to over $2000 and he swore that he only ever checked his e-mail. He was aware of the limit and costs associated. We called AT&T, charges were removed as a courtesy. Did the plaintiff in this case try calling and asking for a little grace?
@wellfleet: I'll give you that. yes, for an aircard you can see how much data is being transferred. i have one but never need to check. However I have comcast at home with 3 other roomates. Comcast also wants to provide a cap before shutting off service or making slower etc. I don't see any way of telling what my apt transferred during any given month yet comcast still wants to set this cap.
When they ask you if you agree to the terms and services...
Try to read the terms and services.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-529488-100x100.png\")
$480 PER GIGABYTE? WTF!
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-131723-100x100.png\")
@Oranges w/ Cheese: It could be worse. If you have no data plan with Verizon and use data on your phone, it's $2 per MB. That would add up to $2048/GB if you tethered your cell phone to your computer.
I have no doubt her contract spelled it out, in addition to at least a page of other junk the lawyers tossed in. My first wireless contract for my first wireless phone (100% analog, the screen had room for 11 7 segment display digits) was an 8.5 x 11 legal sheet with tiny print. I had trouble reading it. Important stuff consumers should read need to be in big letters, easy to read, and fully explained.
How do you explain 5GB to a lay consumer in such a manner that both parties are fully informed and can thus enter into a legally binding agreement? I don't think you can unless the netbook has a popup window that informs the user about the data used in the billing period -- and disables the connection until \"OK\" is pressed at certain user-configurable marks like 80% and 100%. After 100%, a dollar amount should be displayed in some fashion so the user actually knows what's happening.
I never know what bandwidth I'm using, and I'm a pretty technical computer user. I can't expect my mother to have any clue. If she got a bill for $100 of overage fees, she'd be livid and I think she'd have a reason for it.
I'm thinking of opening an At&t and Radio Shack inspired Gas Station
8$ for the 1st 5 Gallons.
0.00475561$ for each ml after that. Bargain eh?
So what if 0.00475561/ml is 18$/Gallon. Customer should know this stuff. Oh and I will bill you a month later after you've been using my pump the whole month.
I don't expect you to be upset and want to switch over to a new service.
I work for said evil company, and when you reach 5GB we put a data block on your account. Customers call in and bitch, and we transfer them to the High Data Usage team where they get a lecture and education on why they got shut down.
Yes, we do send text messages warning you at 3GB, 4GB, and at 5GB, and they are received on a PC.
How this woman exceeded it, and that other guy who watched a football game? Maintaining a constant connection with out ever disconnecting from our service. Regardless though, our data feature is even clearly labeled with \"5GB\" in the title. How this woman can plead ignorance is beyond me.
If I sound harsh, I apologize, but customers just need to be smarter. You can check your usage right from your online account for crying out loud!
When did transferring a lot of data on the internet become shady?
Isn't transferring data the purpose of the internet?
Lets start chastising people for using a tool effectively.
@joshua70448:
Heres whats fishy to me.
Her case is based on the assumption that she believed she had unlimited data, and did not understand that she'd be charged an overage.
Which doesn't fly when you look at her usage, which you cant run up from IMs and email alone.She's tech savvy enough to rack up a $5000 overage bill, but doesnt understand what a data cap is or how to read a cell phone contract?
And she gets exactly zero sympathy if she was using her Acer as a P2P exchange system,which youd almost have to use to explain so much usage.
@Silversmok3: Internet radio? Youtube? Hulu?
Do you have to be an tech wizard to do any of these things?
She's upset (rightly so) that she's paying 480$ per GB after her first 5. It should be clearly stated in the contract that this is the price for overage *in the same way the rest of the pricing is outlined*. Meaning 480$ per gig, clearly stated.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-16563-100x100.png\")
@captaindirtnap: The insane increase for going over the limit is one predatory practice. And, by Silversmok3's admission, only tracking per session and lifetime - and not per billing cycle - let alone some type of alert, considering the punitive rates, is another.
Blaming the victim isn't a great customer service attitude and I'd guess, over the long term, a really bad business model. I remember when Radio Shack had a reputation for being a friend of the consumer - it's sad to see how far they've gone from this.
@Trai_Dep:
Theres blaming the victim-and then theres personal responsibility.
What happened to reading the fine print?
Id imagine that when promted to sign something, its common sense to read the document before affixing your signature.
Yes AT&T's overage rates are punitive-as are credit card late fees, mortage interest adjustments, and sneaky rebates.I dont see why we should pay taxpayer dollars hearing the case of someone who didnt read the fine print of what she signed, and wants a handout because of it.
@Silversmok3: Using the credit card analogy, no one would have sympathy for someone with a 35% APR buying a $4,000 flat-screen. We'd wince, but Personal Responsibility would win the day.
OTOH, someone with a 4% APR doing the same thing, only to find their rate jacked 10x, explained by some arcane footnote on the sixth 9-point-texted page, along with a $3,000 \"convenience fee\" would generate much controversy.
You, and Radio Shack, are driving down the second road. That you don't see this is a large part of Radio Shack's problem.
There is personal responsibility and there is Corporate responsibility. Where is the Corporate responsibility in this? You shout to the world that 5GB only costs $60/Month via in-store signs and pamphlets. Where are the signs that tell people that 6GB of data is going to run them $540? You BURY them in the fine print and hide behind numbers and letters that the average person cannot comprehend. Why sell the plan at 5GB and then put the overages in another format? It's because you hope that the customer is ignorant and doesn't do the math.
Stop blaming the customer and put the blame where it belongs. When AT&T and Radio Shack start showing the real cost of these plans in Gigabytes and Dollars then you can shift the blame to the consumer.
Don't hide behind the fine print. It's unprofessional.
@OMAC:
I think personal responsibility outweighs corporate in this situation. A contract that outlines in the SIMPLEST of terms what the standard data connect fee is and what the overage is as well is handed to the consumer to READ and then sign.
Contracts really fall on the lap of the consumer. As others have said, this woman was savvy enough to update programs and use a substantial amount of data over the 5GB soft-cap, but shouldn't be held responsible when her bill comes in.
Chances are she just signed the contract without even looking at it because she wanted to get home to play with her new netbook. I've seen it before. I've been in similar situations before.
Something will get settled in the consumers favor, but I believe that everyone should always read your entire contract before signing it. They are lawful and binding.
@OMAC: These crazy bills also completely toss out common sense form the equation. Any logical being would realize that somebody paying $60 a month for a data plan would not willing concede to paying $480 for an extra gigabyte.
There is no reason this should ever happen, AT&T clearly knows how much bandwith is being used because they're charging for it, they could just as easily cap it, or even simply email the user when they're approaching it.
@Silversmok3:
There are a lot of legitimate ways to exceed 5GB on a machine with the specs you listed. A lot of people use 3g to work remoteley a simple VPN or remote desktop connection to her office could run that up easily in a month.
I am well aware that 5GB is a low cap,given that 5 itunes movie downloads will pass it. However, this woman didnt just eke past the cap, she blew waaaaayyy past the limit.Typically these matters are resolved with a phone call to AT&T or a RS district office:ususally a typical step before litigation.
But no, she went straight to court accusing fraud-even though she signed the contract that stipulated what the cap was.
Did she ask what would happen if she went over ie... will I get shut down? will I be charged more and if so how much?
These seem like normal, simple questions to me. If she did ask and they did not answer her questions correctly and/or purposely mislead her then I could understand that it would be fraud, and doing a lawsuit.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-91598-100x100.png\")
Let's take down all the speed limit signs, and take all the speedometers out of our cars. When new drivers get their license, there will be a notice printed somewhere in their driver's manual not to exceed 40 mph. Then we'll plant timing devices along every road. Whenever the speed timers decide that their car has exceeeded 40 mph they'll generate a $5000 citation that is mailed to them the following month.
Sounds fair, huh.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-30540-100x100.png\")
The contract states the overage charges; it is NOT the responsibility of AT&T to shut a consumer off if they go over a clearly-disclosed soft cap, as long as they provide tools to monitor usage (I have had a VZW broadband card, and their software DOES provide such tool; I can't see why AT&T wouldn't do the same).
However, it is true that the average person, when asked, will say, \"I don't do that much on the internet; I don't even download\" even if they are watching Youtube for most of the day.
@OMAC:
I'm not hiding behind anything.You seem to understand very well what the concept of 'overage fees' mean , and I hope you understand the common sense wisdom of reading a binding contract before signing it.
And let me be clear-I didnt create the contract, nor set the price for either the aircard or the overage charges.If you have issue with that, talk to AT&T.
You didn't create it, but you are defending it! :) I know that the contracts are created by the accountants and lawyers, and the average retail rep doesn't know what's in each contract. I would also guess that the average retail rep doesn't know the difference between a kB and a kb, which adds to the confusion.
All I am trying to get across is that if AT&T used the same terminology throughout its contract that there would be a drastic reduction in problems, but they go out of their way to make it difficult for the consumer.
@Silversmok3: Common sense also dictates that a $60 a month plan for a $100 device will NEVER cost you $5000 in a month.
When's the last time you checked your computer to see how much data you've downloaded? Oh wait, there isn't a speedometer equivalent. Silly plan...and people that will sign anything the medicine man is selling...
@mwc5446: As I stated, the software for accessing via the VZW BBA card DID include a \"usage meter\". Also, yes, there are 3rd-party programs for monitoring download/upload amounts....but it's right there for the customer in the \"mandatory\" software, so I just don't have the level of sympathy one might expect.
On a lighter note, I just got my first netbook today!
Can't wait to get my 3G connection up and running so I can blow that 5GB cap out the water.
Disable her service?
AT&T shouldn't have to watch your every move if you use their service. Read the contract and follow the rules.
How many things can you do with a 5GB cap? I think we could use a comparison.
Text messages, music downloads, etc. How many?
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-95687-100x100.png\")
She could have easily petered out 5GB in a month if she did much streaming from Netflix or Hulu. Even in an EVDO Rev A coverage area I make sure to stay away from streaming video on my Sprint Card. When I'm at home its no big deal since the 1xRTT service is slower than dial-up at times.
My Sprint Card is really for me to use when on the road and when I'm in a hotel run by tossers that charge extra for Wi-Fi.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-102541-100x100.png\")
It sounds like she kept her 3G card in her laptop or desktop at all times. She may not have torrented or streamed because you keep sending/receiving info when idle.
The information is disclosed in the contract that the plan is a 5GB limit plan. However, past experience has shown that Radio Shack has a hard time disclosing the info and states the 5GB limit is \"unlimited\" as some people can't simply fathom that someone would use the internet on a laptop that much in a month.
Also, at&t has been sending emails and letters out to people who have an aircard reminding of the 5GB limit as this became a HUGE issue for them in the past few months. So, at&t's butts are covered. The customer won't end up paying anything for the overage, and I seriously doubt this will go anywhere in the legal system.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-93244-100x100.png\")
I can just imagine the conversation: \"hey honey, I just saved us $15 in rental fees by torrenting those movies we watched... what's wrong with the mail, honey?\"
I had one of these aircards from At&T. What was fun was the $900 bill I got in the mail... FOR 24 HOURS OF SERVICE. Apparently, I got the thing on Jan. 1, 2009, and my billing cycle ended Jan. 2, 2009. They had pro-rated my 5gigs... and I went over the pro-rated amount. PLUS they charged me 85 cents a minute for connection time. I did not, incidentally, go over 5gigs in that 24 hour period. I think I used about a gig.
Now, I had been without internet for weeks, so I had a lot of email to catch up on. And I was streaming last.fm while I did it. I also watched some stuff on Hulu, as my landlord had forgotten to get my gas tank refilled and I was without heat, bundled in my room by the space heater (my room is smaller than the living room, and therefore easier to heat. So, no tv, stereo, or the like). I was only supposed to have the aircard as a temp solution while A&T got their heads out of their butts and managed to get my DSL installed (which is another story altogether). While I was in the store, no one told me that there was a data limit. No one told me that my billing cycle on a brand new contract was ending the next day, and therefore my data limit was prorated... nothing. Nor was any of that in my contract (I looked AFTER i got the bill.. yes, I'm an idiot). I called, they knocked the $900 down to $120. Again, this is for 24 hours of ownership of the damn thing, not usage. It should have been, at most, $60. My next bill was something like $3000... which was also knocked down to $150. Still a stupid amount of cash to pay for a grand total of about 6 gigs of transfer over a 2 week period.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-133551-100x100.png\")
She may have racked up the $5K bill with more than just a NetBook...
NetGear makes a \"3G Wireless Router\" that sells for around $120 at most major electronics stores and web retailers. Instead of connecting to a DSL or cable modem, you insert your USB 3G card into a router capable handling 150MB/second WiFi signals plus up to four 10/100 wired ethernet ports.
Anyone who buys one of these to cut out the expense of DSL or Cable will be in for a rude awakening. Comcast has set a limit of 250GB on its $60/month home Internet service. In contrast, if someone was able to download 250GB in a month using the AT&T 3G card, the \"overage\" charge would amount to $117,600!
Disclosure: I'm a (for the time being) RadioShack employee. One thing that I keep seeing mentioned is \"Forgot to take the aircard out\" or somesuch. To be perfectly fair, the aircard is built into the machine...to disable it, you'd need to take the SIM out. Also, the network switch on this netbook is a bit dodgy. It's a two-way slide switch with three positions: 3G, Off, and WLAN. It'd be really easy to hit the switch for 3G, forget about it (how many of you leave your WLAN switch on your laptop on, honestly? I'd wager most.) and then rack up said bill. And it's true, lots of salespeople (my assistant manager included) know nothing about these machines, and if they start selling before someone who knows what they're talking about (me, for instance) can get to them, they're pretty much SOL.
I this case, I think there's plenty of blame to go around. Radioshack should have disclosed the limit (it's hinted at, and they put the burden on salesfolk to inform the customer), ATT should have notified them more clearly, and the customer should have been more attentive to said notifications.
Just my 2 cents.
Seriously? Who do you not know about overage charges in 2009? We have already gone through all of the morons that got sacked with overage charges with their iphones when they traveled. was this woman living under a rock?
Here's how I wound up reading this thread: In April I got a letter from AT&T saying essentially \"Oh, by the way, we're changing our contract with you so that you cannot file class-action suits against us.\" About six pages of legalese with absolutely no opt-out.
I sent them a certified letter saying I did not agree to this change in our contract and sure enough, on my bill this month it stated that my contract is changed and I cannot sue AT&T.
I've sent them a copy of the April 14 letter and a note explaining to them you can't change a contract unless both parties agree--and that I do NOT agree.
AT&T is pulling some shady crap and I don't trust them one bit. Soon I expect that I will need to start hunting for a lawyer.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-488475-100x100.png\")
3G Netbooks + Torrents= Bad idea
@Mikestan:
I'd wager on a crushing Hulu or YouTube addiction. Maybe even Slingbox like that other post from last week (too lazy to link).
The only @Mikestan:
The only way I can see this woman using torrents is if she had someone set up a client software like Vuze or something for her, and she got into watching and downloading a lot of crap. But barring that, if she didn't really ask the right questions or whatever when she bought the netbook, I doubt she is savvy enough to be into downloading movies or torrents otherwise.
Besides, what kind of 3G speeds is she getting if she's able to download torrents at any decent speed? Even with my wi-fi connection, I sometimes cringe at how long it takes to download sizable torrents.