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SteelersAreGo
February 21, 2009 4:58 PM
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Of course they did. What did Facebook think was going to happen?

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plyhard13
February 21, 2009 5:14 PM
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I have to say, I'm definitely glad this got taken care of, but I'm truly getting sick of these companies only taking action when hit with national negative exposure.

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2 replies
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floraposte
February 21, 2009 5:29 PM
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@plyhard13: To be fair, it's not likely to get much exposure if they respond obligingly to a simple request. Our perceptions end up skewed because we hear almost exclusively about the escalations.

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plyhard13
February 22, 2009 12:51 AM
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@floraposte: It shouldn't get any exposure when they take care of a simple request. That's called normal business.

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1stMarDiv
February 21, 2009 5:41 PM
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It's almost as if Facebook is doing absolutely everything in its power to tarnish its image, what with the new TOS and then this...what the hell are they thinking?

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1 replies
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Hands
February 22, 2009 12:35 PM
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@1stMarDiv: More and more, Facebook sounds like a company I wouldn't want to do business with. And I haven't. And I probably won't. Ever.

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Yoko Broke Up The Beatles
February 21, 2009 5:45 PM
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Its becoming more and more clear that The Consumerist is a one man (one site) facebook wrecking ball. Keep up the good work!

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Xerloq
February 21, 2009 5:47 PM
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So all I have to do to get somebody's account closed is tell Facebook they're deceased and claim to be next of kin?

Seems like an opportunity for abuse. Perhaps social networking sites should have a designated contact who can make changes in circumstances like these.

I think Stephanie highlighted the important point of recoding this information in your will. Make sure your executor has access to the information (passwords, etc.) to be able to ensure your will is done.

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Stephanie Haller
February 21, 2009 5:54 PM
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@Xerloq:

She did provide a copy of his death certificate as well.

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digitalgimpus
February 21, 2009 8:19 PM
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@Stephanie Haller: That's easy enough to spoof and email/fax.

I say we get a contest going to see who can close another persons account first. Winner gets a gift certificate or something. Why not have a little fun with it? ;-)

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Irashtar
February 22, 2009 7:16 PM
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@digitalgimpus: Bonus points if it's someone who's famous or not even real.

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theblackdog
February 22, 2009 8:02 PM
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@Irashtar: I vote for Artie Lange as the celebrity one to try for, everyone's expecting him to pull a John Belushi or Chris Farley.

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Randy Treibel
February 21, 2009 5:49 PM
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I actually don't like this. Anyone who was close enough to her brother would have access to his computer and ...

*drum roll*....

Be able to retrieve his password. I don't want any relatives of mine claiming to know whats best for me. If they have access they will do the right thing. If they don't they don't.

Also he may prefer immortality.

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9 replies
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William Brian MacLean
February 22, 2009 9:09 AM
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@Randy Treibel: Ubuntu is my OS & my boot-up log-on password is unretrievable.

When she kept seeing her brother's picture on her friends list, she could have unfriended him to save herself this grief.

Of course, unfriending him could have been too traumatic for her. In that case, she should feel extremely lucky to not live in the Gaza strip or another place where missiles & car bombs kill people every day.

We Westerners are pansies.

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PinkBox
February 22, 2009 2:44 PM
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@William Brian MacLean: It would also mean others could leave whatever comments they wanted without any kind of oversight.

It was better to have it removed if his family wished it.

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Sidecutter
February 24, 2009 1:31 PM
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@PinkBox: No, they couldn't. Only people he was friends with would have had access to his profile anymore. RTFA?

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Changed my name to \"I like potatoes\"
February 22, 2009 12:48 PM
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@William Brian MacLean:
In the original story, she said her brother had just told her he would add her as a friend and then his tragic death occurred before he had the chance. Her daughters were on his friends list but she was not. It was upsetting for her daughters to see him on their friends list. I don't think that a memorialized page is a horrible thing, but the next of kin should have the option available to close the account if they want to (provided the deceased hasn't left instruction in his will to have his page stay up and I wonder how many people really think about that!)

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Pink Puppet
February 22, 2009 2:20 AM
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@Randy Treibel: Dude, passwords are like underwear. You don't just share them.

...unless you're into that. To that, I say your kink is not my kink (but your kink is okay, too).

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MsAnthropy
February 22, 2009 12:28 AM
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@Randy Treibel:

Huh? I love my family, but that doesn't extend to sharing my passwords with them. I'd say me and my husband are pretty \"close\", but we don't have each others' passwords. Why you'd think this is in some way telling about their relationship, I have no idea.

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Nitrokart knows CPR and took that guy's wallet
February 21, 2009 9:14 PM
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@Randy Treibel: Wasn't it mentioned that they lived thousands of miles away from each other?

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Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!)
February 21, 2009 7:27 PM
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@Randy Treibel: Dude, I don't share my passwords with my *husband*, and I certainly don't store them on my machine.

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alysbrangwin Rodbaton
February 21, 2009 6:03 PM
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@Randy Treibel: Let us blame the victim whose brother lives in another country. Surely she knows all his passwords!

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Brian Johnson
February 21, 2009 5:59 PM
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@Randy Treibel: I guess I would be screwed. I don't give my passwords to anybody.

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Plates
February 21, 2009 5:59 PM
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So apparently to get Facebook to do anything you have to publicly shame them.

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albokay
February 21, 2009 6:11 PM
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I guess when the Schnitt hit the fan, they did the right thing.

Very good advise as far as handling info on computers when someone passes.

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Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!)
February 21, 2009 6:17 PM
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\"Do they ever ask their clients what they want done with their virtual life? I doubt it.\"

OF COURSE I DO.

I give them a pamphlet listing all the things their executors/relatives are going to want to be able to find that you DON'T or might not put in the will (like the location of a deed, or which bank branch your safe deposit box is at), and I always always always include online account access. (And a suggestion that they say, like, \"Please e-mail my entire contacts list on my g-mail account to let them know I've died\" or \"my friends list\" or whatever, since notifications will often need to go out that way as well.)

Estate lawyers who AREN'T doing this already need to seriously rethink. (They're often from the older generation, that's why, and mostly serve older people who have much smaller online lives.)

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GeekChicCanuck
February 22, 2009 12:07 AM
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@Eyebrows McGee: My lawyer asks about this during our annual review. I have a living will due to health issues and virtual \"stuff\" is on the list of things we discuss. My attorney is older but he does keep up.

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HogwartsAlum
February 22, 2009 3:00 PM
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@GeekChicCanuck:

I was just thinking that even if you don't have a will or a lawyer, that you should find some way for someone to access this stuff in the event of your death. Any suggestions?

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Shrew2u
February 22, 2009 6:45 PM
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@HogwartsAlum: Option 1: An up-to-date spreadsheet/text document with all important info, tucked into an envelope that is addressed to the person you want to have access to the info. Give envelope to your employer to keep in your personnel folder and drop in the mail in the event of your death.

Option 2: Get a safe deposit box, make arrangements with the bank for a person (or that person's assignee, with your death certificate in hand) to access the box in the event of your death. Store all info in the box.

Option 3: Spend a day to create your will. You don't need a lawyer to write one - a Nolo or LegalZoom kit will do most folks just fine.

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Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!)
February 22, 2009 8:12 PM
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@Shrew2u: \"Spend a day to create your will. You don't need a lawyer to write one - a Nolo or LegalZoom kit will do most folks just fine.\"

These are not legal in all states, nor appropriate for all people. My local OfficeMax actually sells will kits (specifically made for my state) that are flatly invalid in my state. I don't know why these aren't cracked down on more often. I love Nolo (don't know anything about LegalZoom), but state laws on valid wills can be tetchy.

If you have minor children, this isn't a good area for experimentation.

If it's just money, fine, if your will ends up invalid, it's just money, you're dead, it's not that big a deal (morally, anyway). But if you have minor children, you really need to spend the money and effort to have a lawyer draw up a simple will to protect your children.

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HogwartsAlum
February 22, 2009 9:00 PM
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@Eyebrows McGee: @Shrew2u:

Thanks, both of you. I don't have kids so I don't need to plan for them. I do have a cat, though. I also have a fire safe. I guess I should put that information in there and let someone know about it. It just takes keys; no combo or anything.

That's a good suggestion of giving something to your employer to mail in the event of your death. For someone like me, who has no close friends or family living nearby, no kids and no significant other at this time, that might be the best course of action.

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Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!)
February 22, 2009 4:32 PM
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@HogwartsAlum: There's a bunch of stuff that DOESN'T go in the will (funeral instructions, etc.); typically you put that all together in a manila envelope and give it to a trustworthy friend or family member, or put it in your firesafe and let that person know how to access it, or whatever.

It can be a very comprehensive list, or it can be just a letter saying, \"Here's where I keep important financial paperwork, here's where I keep my online passwords, here's where you can find my spare car keys\" and let them go dig in your file cabinet themselves to find your account numbers and so forth.

Of course this should be done with common sense and with security in mind, and with your time in life in mind. When you're older, you probably do want to do this formally as part of your comprehensive death planning. When you're young and healthy, you may just show your brother when he comes to visit, so he'd know, just in case. If you have kids, your focus should be on what your executor would need to be able to find quickly to ensure your kids are cared for (medical records, school records, etc.) -- and, yes, executor, because if you have kids, you really need to have a will!

For us, since we're married, we're each other's backstops, and then my family is generally aware of where we file all the important stuff (and, having learned from my parents, it's pretty similar to their system, and my sibs mostly use a pretty similar system as well). When Mini-McGee arrives in the spring, we'll be executing new wills and formalizing the system a bit more.

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MooseOfReason
February 21, 2009 6:31 PM
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Doesn't Facebooks new Terms of Service mean they can use Stephanie's brother's non-private pictures or information any way they want to?

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egoods
February 21, 2009 6:52 PM
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Wow, it's not common that I get teary eyed reading consumerist (well, ok sad tears, not depressed tears about my mortgage). Way to go Ben, you done good.

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MissTicklebritches
February 21, 2009 7:09 PM
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href=\"#c10894614\">Randy Treibel: he's already achieved immortality. you don't need facebook to achieve that. your comment kind of makes me wonder if you work for facebook. btw, any site with a password will recommend you don't share it with anyone for security purposes.

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swagv
February 21, 2009 7:27 PM
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Facebook: \"All your epitaph are belong to us.\"

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f3rg
February 21, 2009 7:40 PM
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Why the f--- would anyone want their profile deleted after they die? \"Oh, John died--let's delete every instance of his life, so it's like he never existed to begin with!\"

Stupidstupidstupid.

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William Brian MacLean
February 22, 2009 9:18 AM
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@f3rg: Srsly?

Believe me - there is a 99% chance that in 99 years no one is going to give a damn whether you existed or not. Your *memorial* will be to someone who may as well never developed a virtual life.

Way to clutter server- & cyber-space!

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batsy
February 21, 2009 11:07 PM
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@f3rg: Yes, because having a facebook = having a life.

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Nitrokart knows CPR and took that guy's wallet
February 21, 2009 9:16 PM
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@f3rg: So people couldn't go talking to him not knowing he was dead.@MooseOfReason: Didn't they do away with the new TOS after backlash from the community?

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strathmeyer
February 21, 2009 8:25 PM
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\"Do they ever ask their clients what they want done with their virtual life? I doubt it.\"

lolwhut?

How can I make sure one of my stupid relatives doesn't do the same thing to my account?

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kexline
February 22, 2009 3:19 AM
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@strathmeyer: Uh, you ask them not to. Words mean things: it is your will that they not hose up your online accounts, and you codify that shit in your will.

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RandomHookup
February 21, 2009 8:26 PM
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Hasn't the supply of Nazis to hunt dwindled down to about zero?

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batsy
February 21, 2009 11:05 PM
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I love all the people (including Facebook) who said \"Well, we don't KNOW what he would have wanted! What if he would have wanted to keep the page up!\"

I guess they don't realize that decisions like that are up to the family and/or spouse if they cannot be discerned from the deceased. Nah, it's better to just speculate.

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William Brian MacLean
February 22, 2009 9:16 AM
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@batsy: I think (heh - I really do, I swear) people should get off this *I need to be immortal* schtick.

THAT'S WHY YOU HAVE CHILDREN!

Haven't you seen the Lion King?

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batsy
February 22, 2009 6:00 PM
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@William Brian MacLean: What's with the need to be \"immortal\" anyway? I think after I'm dead I won't give a flying fork about anything anymore.

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MsAnthropy
February 22, 2009 12:39 AM
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@batsy:

I love that, and I love how some commenters are acting as if a Facebook page is some wonderful thing of great personal and sentimental worth. I'd like to think that my loved ones would have something better to remember me by than that.

I didn't comment on the original story, but was stunned that Facebook would respond in the way they did, banging on about their \"policy\".

Glad FB has done the right thing here. I think they need to tell their employees to handle requests like this a bit more sensitively, though. Fine, if they want such requests to come from next of kin, they should respond explaining this, rather than quoting some \"policy\" that they think should overrule the family's wishes. Facebook, you're just a bloody social networking website, why should the close family of a deceased person, next of kin or not, give two shits about your \"memorializing\" policy. This is the last thing they should have to be dealing with.

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kexline
February 22, 2009 3:30 AM
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@MsAnthropy: While they absolutely should have stated the policy correctly -- even given the boneheaded assumption that because Stephanie could not have been the next of kin because her name was different, they should have given her the full picture. Any family member might reasonably start the conversation about what do with the decedent's online presence, and there's no compelling reason why sites shouldn't tell them what they will need to do once a decision is reached.

That said, I sort of understand Facebook's default policy. While Facebook is better suited to timewasting than journaling, I can see how someone might, with persistence, fortitude, and an almost enviable ignorance of superior options, use it as a journal or other major online presence. I occasionally go back and read journal entries and emails from friends who have died, and I would not want my online journal deleted if I died.

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MsAnthropy
February 22, 2009 4:13 AM
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@kexline:

I can see where you're coming from with that. Maybe something as simple as a profile setting where the user can decide whether they wish to be \"memorialized\" in the event of their death (morbid though that may seem when signing up to join the site!) could be a plan?

Agreed on what you say about the way Facebook explains the policy, too. If Facebook actually has a policy on such things, that policy should include a provision that, if somebody gets in touch saying \"I am a relative of XXX and want YYY to happen, because they have died\", they're told \"we're very sorry for your loss - please have XXX's next of kin get in touch with us when they are able to\", or similar.

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cmhbob
February 22, 2009 5:20 AM
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It seems to me that \"Next of kin\" has little bearing on things like this unless you happen to be the next-of-kin to a minor child, making you their parent.

Next-of-kin do not automatically have executor rights and privileges, even if the deceased left no will. The court should have appointed an executor, who then should have notified FB with a copy of their letter of authorization from the court as well as a DC.

Both times when my parents died, I needed both documents to do anything in their name. It's not unreasonable for FB, Yahoo, or any other similar site to have the same requirement.

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Anonymous
February 22, 2009 9:28 AM
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I despise Facebook and written a number of articles about them in the past but in this instance, as sad as I am for Ms Bemister's loss, I don't think she had any right to remove the page.

If Facebook had removed any contact information - which it sounds like they did - and it was marked as a memorial page, then obviously nobody would have been able to 'incessantly call'.

I don't like the thought that any relative could remove something he may well have wanted to remain. As she stated, he left no determinations of what do do in the event of his death. Often these pages are where people go to pay their respects. I think Facebook should have allowed her access to view the site and leave a message but not remove it.

I love my brothers dearly but would not want them to remove my presence from the internet unless I specifically gave them permission to. When you sign on to the network it is specified in the Terms and conditions, which this gentleman agreed to.

That said, I sincerely feel her loss and hope this gives her some closure if this is how she felt she needed to do it.

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Rectilinear Propagation
February 23, 2009 1:55 PM
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@NevilleAthos: If they left no instructions about what to do in the event of their death, why should Facebook ignore the wishes of their relatives? That doesn't make sense.

Maybe he wanted it left up but maybe he didn't. One isn't more likely than the other.

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BeFrugalNotCheap
February 22, 2009 2:27 PM
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As always, Brother Ben comes through. Glad to hear this got resolved.

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Ray Trygstad
February 22, 2009 3:47 PM
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All things considered I am very glad to hear that Facebook \"memorializes\" accounts. I tried very hard to convince an ISP that they should do this to my father's Web pages when he died and they would not do it. This really seems to be a simple misunderstanding that was easily resolved one everyone understood who was who and what was going on.

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foxymcfox
February 22, 2009 5:48 PM
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I feel as though that part of the memorialization process should be to open the profile up, rather than to close it up. I lost a friend of mine last year, and in all the time he was alive, I never thought to friend him on Facebook...we were too busy being \"actual\" friends I guess. Now, occasionally, I find myself just wanting to go on just to see him again if only for a minute. And as it stands, there is no way for me to do that.

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Quilt
February 22, 2009 5:53 PM
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I always kind of wondered what happened to a facebook page when someone died. I figured it would just eventually starve to death then rot in the corner of the facebook offices.

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Shrew2u
February 22, 2009 6:33 PM
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Stories like this make me glad I created a spreadsheet (updated as needed) for my husband so that he can access important info. It's gotta be the worst feeling in the world for a person trying to settle the affairs of a deceased loved one - you're grieving, but you still have to negotiate the bureaucratic hoops of various businesses. Not really faulting the businesses - they have to have some sort of bureaucratic firewall in place. But we get so wrapped up in protecting our info while we are living that we forget that we are, indeed, mortal.

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Mona Nomura
February 22, 2009 8:04 PM
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The woman didn't identify herself as next of kin and Facebook did the apologizing? Wow. This has got to be THE stupidest things I've ever read and shame on you, Consumerist, for spinning it the way you did.

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Rectilinear Propagation
February 23, 2009 1:40 PM
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@Mona Nomura: What spin? They posted a story saying that a woman was told she could close her deceased brother's Facebook account. They didn't say anything about whether Stephanie identified herself as next of kin or not.

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Anonymous
February 26, 2009 7:29 AM
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facebook summarily denies all requests. They throw out accusations of fraud with no proof. They are rude and dismissive.Anybody with have of an ounce of respect for themselves, who has dealt with facebook support, is deeply offended by their adolescent staff.If I could, I would short sell the company.

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Anonymous
March 9, 2009 7:58 PM
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It's just another example of the bottome line: Make sure to spell out what YOU want in your final documents. Neither Facebook nor Stephanie can be blamed for doing what they thought was in the best interest of the deceased, because he didn't SAY what he wanted. The good part about this whole thing is that it it brings to our attention the fact that our online life doesn't disappear just because we die. We do need to be responsible for making our wishes known, just as in other areas of our estate.

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Anonymous
March 12, 2009 9:25 AM
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I think Facebook should add an option in account settings that allows the user to choose whether or not they want their page \"memorialized\" or whether they would like the account deleted after a certain number of days. That way the deceased gets to voice his/her preference and it's one less tedious thing the bereaved family has to deal with. Personally, I don't want to be immortal and would prefer my account be deactivated upon my death. I don't want people gawking at my profile, especially since not all of my friends are close and personal. Important people in my life will have other ways to remember me. I whole-heartedly agree that you need to leave your links/passwords for family to find so that they can carry out your wishes. Perhaps you should add language to your will as well to make sure that your virtual self is laid to rest as well.

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Clara Dunne
April 9, 2009 4:37 PM
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We have a family memeber who is deceased, there is a memoriam already set up in her name but the family would like to close out her personal account. How do we do that. Appreciate if someone could help us

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hmen
August 3, 2009 11:27 AM
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Why should these pages be taken down? Did the brother really say that was his wish?


We don't do this with people's real lives, like we don't ask people to burn all photos and letyters they ever got from them, so why should this be different on a social network?

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