If they are moving in from out of town and are unfamiliar with my city, I strongly suggest that they (if possible) rent for 6 months first, before buying, so that they can familiarize themselves with the city and find out where they really want to be. I'd rather make a solid sale where the people are truly happy LATER than a quick buck TODAY. My broker thinks I am an idiot for that. I probably am an idiot for that.

I also suggest that if they are not sure that they'll keep the house for at least 3 years, not to expect to make a whole lot, if anything. And that advice only goes for the pockets of the city that have (and still have) steady, good appreciation. In some of the 'burbs and areas that are over-built, I suggest 5 years minimum.

Either way, I always qualify the above statements with "But I am not promising anything. I can tell you what the average growth trends have been in this neighborhood over the last several years. But it is not a guarantee. I do not have a crystal ball and I can't predict what can happen in the future. "

I work in a city that has been fairly well protected in this crisis, homes are still selling and prices have not fallen a whole heck of a lot (they are still going up in many places). But we didn't have the insane explosion in prices, either. It's been slow and steady wins the race here. Which is just my style.

The banks are reluctant to give loans to people like ME now! I live in nice neighborhood and good town, too.

I tried lending tree and got ONE response. I ended up going with my regular bank for the loan but it has been a nightmare! I finally got a rate of 4.875% (not APR) on a 15 yr fixed with closing costs (not including escrow and insurance) of approximately $1250 (which includes my banking discount), but I had to do a lot of calling around and pulling of teeth. It's been very unpleasant to say the least. I have an appraiser coming this week and I still don't feel comfortable that those terms will be honored. =(

@bwcbwc: Well, I can only hope that the prices in the Greater NYC area follow suit.

@JeffM: Maybe I should share that information with my noisy neighbors!

Its a lot easier to clean up a spill with a shop vac than a steam cleaner.

So THAT'S my problem!

I'll be the first to help eradicate the pests - *click-click, BOOM!... thump*

Oh crap, will somebody click "submit" for me?

First: Whether you can have those things depends where you live. And if you have the car in a major city and you are under the poverty line, you probably can't afford insurance.

Second: There are many places in the United States where if you are working poor, you need the car just to keep treading water.

Third: You can have a car, a TV, and a stereo, but you can't have medical treatment. USA! USA! USA!

Understating poverty

The U.S. poverty threshold in particular has been criticized for understating poverty, by using an outdated "basket of goods" to set the standard. While cost of these goods is adjusted for inflation every year, the basket of goods itself remains the same. It excludes the cost of items that were rare among poor Americans in the 1950s, but which are now common, such as a telephone, a car and a microwave oven. Mollie Orshansky, who devised the original goods basket and methodology to measure poverty, used by the U.S. government, in 1963-65, suggested an updated list in 2000. She found that the point where a person is excluded from the nation's prevailing consumption patterns, is roughly 170% of the official poverty threshold.

Hey Ill give you this house for 200,000 just pay a 1500 a month mortgage with no money down.

I would jump at the chance as long as the area was decent, and the house was in decent shape and did not need major work like a new roof or redone plumbing or electrical.

Problem is with 19 million homes people STILL want 400-500k for them, when they where barely worth 200-300k.

Wait a minute, all the Republicans on here swear we are already at the trough and home sales are picking up again and we don't need a stimulus and Santa Clause is coming to town.

In my state, the majority demographic among the homeless is single mothers with children. Dad skips town, doesn't pay child support, gets put in jail, whatever, and mom is left with two kids and a minimum wage job and gets fired when she misses two days because her kids have strep and she has to wait 18 hours in the ER to see a doctor.

"In 2005, 13.3% of the U.S. population, or 38,231,521 million people, lived in poverty"

13%, are you kidding me? More than 1 in 10 people. In this country you can live below the poverty line and still have a car and a tv and a stereo.

@LadySiren: Derè-lict? That Hansel is so hot right now.

Well, duh! That's what the double paned lexan windows, steel lined doors and cinderblock walls are for!

On a side note, if you were working during the building bubble, did you ever tell a client that the prices and growth were unsustainable and would invariably come crashing down? At what point did you start advising them that buying didn't make sense financially?

You got that right! I live in a neighborhood that is mostly homes form the 30's and 40's. The majority less than 1500 sq ft Turn over is very low. Average length of ownership on my street is 15+ years. 2 empty houses. 1 was a foreclosure, but a stupid one, People borrowed 100,000 on a house that was paid for. Not to remodel or anything, and never paid dime one. The other the old guy died and his family is still fighting. The first house never made it to the market,friends of ours will take possession on April 1.

We are one block from the river and the city park system.Our neighborhood park((15 yards from my front door) has a playground, wading pool,tennis court and Frisbee Golf course.

Oh did I tell you that I live in a "bad" neighborhood.

[www.nationalhomeless.org]

@cynical_bastard:

E is too big to fail! (D'oh! Still dind't try any in this box. Damn You!) It's caput, I'm sayin'.

Have a look at

By the way, Portland decided to house its chronically homeless and it's been controversial, but quite successful. Apparently if you give the homeless housing, they live in it.

2.23 empty homes for sale
4.1 vacant homes for rent
4.8 seasonal properties
7.8 "other" which could mean foreclosure (and the family is likely still in the house) or that the owner is renovating and living elsewhere.

I don't mean to say that these numbers are good, but to insinuate that there are 19 million homes completely empty and up for sale is totally misleading.

The numbers do not seem right. The Census Bureau estimates there are approximately 115 million households in the United States. If there are 19 million homes vacant, that means there is a cacant home for every six households. It would take years and years for an over supply of homes like that to be evened out. I realize there are some areas, like my native Michigan, that have lost population, but not that extent. So what are they classifying as vacant? In rural areas there are houses that were abandoned decades ago that are nor uninhabitable. Are they considered part of this? If so, we may as well count all of the scrapped cars in junk yards as part of the cars in the US. Is it possible they used multiple sources and double counted homes, or just estimated numbers? Even with the down economy, I find the number too high to believe.

But yeah, home prices don't rationally reflect reality for a large number of reasons. It's not as efficient a market as say, the stock market, so it takes a lot longer to correct the imbalanced prices. What's really killed the economy is how over-leveraged so many people were. It's insane to invest in something that is absolutely overpriced using a large amount of debt.

Hells yes. Right on. A basement gets drywall, foam underpadding (sometimes), office carpet, and fluorescent tube lights. Anything else is a waste of money, unless you're actually thinking of building a REAL home theatre (you know, with black curtains all around). :)

That is not to say they don't deserve sympathy, or that nobody should care about their health and well-being. But it's important to remember that simply allotting them houses will probably not solve much.

I'd rather make my clients HAPPY and make the sale than pressure them over $700.

We have a vacant house in forclosure in our neighborhood. It has been that way for 9 months. Unfortunately, the bank has been rather laxed in taking care of the property and it will now bite them in the @$$. About 2 weeks ago, a pipe for the fire sprinkler system burst because of the cold temperatures. It flooded the onside of the house, ruined the drywall, carpeting and hardwood floors. The fire department had to be called to break in, turn off the water and ensure that the electricity was turned off.

One week later, representatives came by to "Winterize" the house (aka, turn off the water and drain the pipes). NOTE TO THE BANKS: You should typically winterize a home BEFORE the end of January.

So the bank had a home with a $250K mortgage that they could have easily sold for $350-450K in the condition before the flood, now they have a home that is flooded with water, ruined drywall, ruined carpets and is beginning to show signs of mold growth. When the house is eventually sold, the new owner will need to gut everything, and probably have the home cleaned by a mold abatement specialist. Value of this 7 year old flood damaged home...about $100K, half the value of the mortgage.

Now he terrorizes school children walking home from school. It freaking pisses me off.

just saying...

I am convinced someone is doing something illegal, this can't be good.

Problem solved. Next!

There's a vacant house that looks like that in my town that is a historic home and cannot be structurally changed or moved. So an adjacent business bought it and is keeping it in desrepair, apparently in hopes it will fall down on it's own. It's a parking lot in waiting

Would a Greyhound bus to Detroit or Buffalo solve the homeless problem?

Seriously, do those "save money on things" articles ever say "Move out of the fashionable neighborhood and into the crappy ones with houses that sell for a tenth of yours"? That'll save a ton of money, and you'll have plenty left over to install all the things you've seen on HGTV...

@pb5000:

Thats some funny shit man.. thanks for the laugh.

"19 million homes are currently vacant and for sale, either through foreclosure or bank seizure or just because no one feels like living there"

Not true. Read the article. That 19MM includes homes (about 1/4 of the total) that are available for rent, but not for sale, and includes vacant vacation homes (another 1/4 of the total).

Oh, BTW, now that you don't own a home I assume you're homeless right since if someone loses their house they're "out on the street"? (I heard that happens on the news with regard to foreclosures)

"Hey man, you got any sheetrock?"

At least it cuts out the middle man. Now instead of tearing down a house and selling the scrap for scag money, they can just tear down the house and bake that shit up right there.

I made a market-value offer, supported by comps and the state of the housing market in my area at the same time as another buyer. The seller requested best bids, so I tacked on the $5k I would have given during negotiations and resubmitted. I later found out that the other buyer bought for an obscene amount that he/she won't be able to recoup for 15 years (as S%&^ meet fan is only beginning here).

I honestly feel bad that I didn't withdraw my offer rather than helping the Realtors involve scare them into increasing theirs.

There are 3.5 million homeless men, women, and children in America (source [www.pbs.org])

And yet, if I suggested that we use some of the inventory of houses to provide shelter to the homeless, I'd be branded as a communist pinko lefty numnut.

Just saying.

Yes, you can install laminate floors yourself. If you don't take the molding off first and actually extend the floor to the walls, it will bring down the value of your house and I will see it as something else I have to fix.

I've seen 3 houses like this in the last 2 weeks.

Don't forget the travertine tile kitchens, subway tile bathrooms, and laminate wood floors. Throw some paint and new handles on those cabinets because the 1950's -> 2000's look is HOT. And paint at least one wall in the living room a different colour. Throw some fresh sod on the front and back lawns, too! Don't forget those ugly-ass fishbowl-style sinks, too.

And you absolutely must go for the never-lived-in look with all rental furniture.

Gah! I've watched too many failures-in-progress on TV!

@nytmare:
Alot of homes in foreclosure are not for sale and sitting vacant while they wait to go to auction.

ShamWow is like, sooooo $700 trillion ago. Better make it a wtf Blanket.

19 million vacant houses. How many of them are over 2500 square feet?

And what percentage of owned homes, not in foreclosure while still on a mortgage, are under 2500 square feet?

The market is saturated with oversized and overvalued junk that people can't afford, and people wonder why they're not selling or payments are being made on them.

Yeah, right. The house I sold is now worth 15k less than what I sold it for. We actually made good money on that sale even with all the concessions we made. I feel really bad for the people in our old neighborhood but damn, we timed it just right. I really feel like we dodged a bullet.

We moved and we're renting for now since we know we're not going to be here more than four years. When we get ready to move back to AZ, we'll be able to buy a bigger house for what we paid there back in 2003.

I think we should subsidize arsonists... that will bring inventory down.

Non, non, non! Vacent refers to the hot new style sweeping the nation...who doesn't board up their windows these days? It's recession chic, mon ami.

I have heard that rent prices are now going down as people scamble to keep homes afloat knowing that they cannot sell for what they paid...

@bohemian: And it would be worth it to him to have renters in there to keep the place up.

@Rhayader: I read that minorities are now grinding up foreclosed homes and shooting them into their genitals.

Watch out next time you see someone with a cheese grater and a wandering look in their eye.

@JGKojak: Thank you! This is how I have felt for the past year that I have been looking at homes. Many of the homes in my price range (Max $335k) are overpriced for the space, neighborhood and condition. If they were priced more reasonably, I may have brought one already.

And yes, I understand that people are selling homes that they are losing money on. Maybe we should have received a bailout rather than the greedy banks!

@catnapped: They or one of their competitors are now doing a "fix that space to rent it out" show which I guess means that people are trying to get rental property out of their homes in order to help pay for their mortgages...

@HRHKingFridayXX: LMAO - So true. Many sellers are still asking too much for too little. In the greater NYC area, people are trying to sell homes that have not one upgrade for the same price as their neighbors who have upgraded their homes to the hilt! That's freaking criminal! I guess I will remain in my apartment for a bit longer.

@alysbrangwin: It's actually pronounced "vay-sent" and it's from the French adjective meaning "keflempt".

This shows what a sham home prices are- in a true capitalist system, price would fall to meet demand. The banks are artificially (and have been for years) inflating home prices (complicit: real estate agents, who get higher commissions, and cities/counties, who get more property tax) far beyond what the market will take.

Assuming half of these homes are decent, non-crack-den caliber, its likely they WOULD sell, if the bank would actually take a reasonable price-- but, if you own dozens of these mortgages in a particular city and actually start letting them go, you lower home prices across the board.

Don't you get the feeling that SOMEONE should go to jail?

This is obviously unacceptable and needs to be shut down immediately.

@catnapped: One of my relatives has a bungalow in a presentable but unfashionable neighborhood in North Hollywood, and is pressuring his heirs to decide what to do with the thing when he dies. My brother immediately yelled, "FLIP THAT HOUSE!" I didn't get it for a minute...

It would be terrific if Consumerist could do an article on how to cost-effectively and attractively fix up a "well-loved" house that needs a lot of attention to make it saleable.

@MisterE: If so, I would totally try to get evicted from my apt so I could be homeless and get a free house. But that's not how it works, now is it?

@HurtsSoGood: So true. There were lots of brand-spanking-new buildings here in Houston that the oil bust in the 80s mothballed. They just finished recommissioning the last of them a few years ago, I think.

@edebaby: I would so dare, if it wasn't in Detroit. I guess that's the point. You don't see deals like that on every street here in Houston. I bet you do see some, though, so maybe it's house-hunting time.

The folks who make living without a mortgage a spectator sport frequently purchase homes for near-nothing (like a hundred dollars, seriously) from exasperated people disgusted with their useless chattels, and move them to a lot they already own. It's safe (as houses, yuk yuk) and only costs the price of the move and the contractor to pin it down and hook up the utilities. If you're really good at the game, you pitch yourself to the homeowner as a removal service and get them to pay you for taking the house away.

It really sucks to live in a nice neighborhood with a house that is slowly dying.

Is this where the bailouts are taking us? Is America becoming Russia?...dum dum DUM!

@Irish Lion:

surely a joke, wouldn't ya think, Irish Lion?

Certainly not disputable that there is a glut of homes for sale in Detroit. I just saw a 4 bedroom, 3 bath, brick home for sale for only $10K. Move in condition. If you dare...

@snidelywhiplash:

And you got that figure from where?

@KyleOrton: According to just about every show on HGTV, your comment was not a joke.

Scary thing is, about 18.5 million of them are in Detroit.

Not to mention a glut of "E's" and a paucity of "A's" in world vowel market

I'm sure the number of vacant homes will lead someone in the government to surmise that we need more money to fight crack addiction.

Vacant homes are the gateway situation.

(sorry, low but there's just not much to say about this other than wow)