Chris writes:
I have never been so appalled as when I called Cablevision to activate BASIC cables service for an apartment in Brooklyn. I called Cablevision on behalf of my boss's 95 year old uncle. He currently has rabbit ears providing his television signal at his fathers house. He asked me what would happen as of February 16th. I told him that if he was using an antenna to get his local channels that it would cease working as of that date. He asked me to call Cablevision and ask them to provide BASIC service as of that date.I called Cablevision and after entering the correct prompts, I was routed to the sales department as a new customer. I gave the sales rep the address that I needed service at. After he verified that Cablevision serviced that particular building, he told me that iO service was available. I informed him that I only needed BASIC cable, channels 2-12 only. He told me no problem, I would even receive HBO and Starz free for 90 days. Again reiterated that I ONLY wanted channels 2-12. I said that I did not need a box, I only wanted to hook up signal to a cable ready tv. After talking over me, he said that Cablevision requires a box no matter what. I told him that was incorrect and that a box was not needed for local channels if you have a cable ready tv. The rep then told me that I was "disrespecting" him and that he knows what he is talking about. I then asked to speak to a supervisor as this guy had no idea what he was talking about.
I am a communicatons installer and my company not only specializes in telephones, we install and set up home theater systems as well. I could not believe what I was going through to get simple basic service from Cablevision. After waiting on old for two or three minutes a supervisor came on the line and I basically said that after speaking to your rep, he tried to sell me a box and a service that was not necessary. I didn't want a box or digital service, I just wanted BASIC service. He asked me if that was all and I said yes. He put me on hold and in another two or three minutes went by and the original representative came back on and told me that a supervisor had "approved" my request to have basic service without a converter. We finished the order and after hanging up I was absolutely floored that they would try to sell their iO service and a monthly box rental after SPECIFICALLY asking for only local channels and saying that I did not want their "free" channels. A supervisor has to "approve" having local service only??? How many people are they scamming with this obviously unfair and illegal sales tactic.
This is specifically the reason why I dumped this horrible company for Verizon Fios at my home. I would rather pay more that even give a dollar to Cablevision.
Cablevision is known for their deceptive and fraudulent sales tactics, so it's no surprise that their CSR would push an unnecessary upsell. If someone ever wanted to share Cablevision's training manuals, we'd love to see exactly how the cable giant instructs their front-line agents.
]]>I've been told a number of times by Cablevision employees that this is in the works...(their Customer 'advisory' program is nothing more than market research.)
I think Cable customers should be able to turn off cable channels that they are never watching and receive a discount on their monthly service.
I would immediately shut off News12 (yawn) all Fox affiliates (yuk) the Food Network (I'm trying to stay healthy) any channels that feature religious programming, etc.. etc...
It would be nice to pay for *only* the channels I watch regularly, and to activate other single channels I am interested in without having to subscribe to expensive 'packages' every month.
Call cable today and request Cablevision a la carte!!!
]]>IMO Cablevision is heading towards a 100% digital distribution network. I've been using analog for a long time for my DVR (IR emitters + the shitty Scientific Atlanta cable boxes don't make for reliable tuning), and they have been slowly dropping cable channels that are available over analog. (I do have iO service, and use cable boxes for HD and live TV viewing, BTW, so it's not that my service has become more limited).
I would wager that they don't want to hook up any more analog-only customers if they can avoid it, because those customers will just be up in arms when Cablevision gets down to dropping 2-12 (well, 2-14 AFAIK) from analog.
And YES, I know this has nothing whatsoever to do with the over-the-air DTV switch.
BTW - Reasons that giving out boxes to basic/analog-only customers makes sense from the cable company's POV:
1) Easier upgrade path for customer to more expensive, premium services.
2) Profit on box rentals.
3) Less complaints when all channels go digital.
4) Less costly to modify/restrict/enhance the customer's service (e.g. now a cable installer has to physically come to your location to disconnect or limit analog services. Not so if everything is digital.)
]]>Granted, I had to walk the installer through the steps when he came out to "install" the cards (I was the first one he had ever used them for), but it still went smoothly.
Again... I know, very well, that I was lucky. I'm assuming that one of the local management types at Comcast has a TiVo and that's why things are easier around here...
]]>Sounds like they are trying to pass the buck on to their customers. Those converters typically have high latency between channel changes and if the FCC is in fact allowing them to force the boxes on customers (and charge them for it), that would be reason enough for me to drop cable. Going digital helps the cable company, not the customer and they shouldn't have to pay for it in monthly charges or slow channel change times.
]]>Apartment buildings are easy to split cable from unit to unit, avoid paying bills all together.
If they are going to boxes that decrypt the data, you will need a box to get ANY signal.
It would be pretty terrible if they charged people a 7 dollar box fee on top of a 15 dollar service.
]]>On Saturday, the guy comes to install the digital cable box and I again question him about needing it. He repeats that when the network goes digital the following year, I have to have the box. So, for 3 months, I enjoyed incredibly slow channel surfing and lookups along with more quality problems than in the previous 3 years. The fourth month I get a bill for 120 bucks. I called Comcast to ask why I'm getting billed double when I'm on a 6 month trial. The rep was very nice about it and was confused about where I got this 6 month deal, but she extended it an additional 3 months. I asked about needing the cable box just for enhanced basic and she said no, I didn't need it.
I found out through her that the company that came to my house and told me I had to have the box was a contracted company for some of their work. I gave her the names of the guys that lied to me and the numbers on the work order. At the end of that 3 months, I returned the box and got my enhanced cable back normally.
]]>Thank you for saying it before I could. Cablevision did nothing wrong. I live in a Building in BK with a simliar status...For kicks i tried plugging in an old TV to the wall to see if it picked up anything (Yes...I have an old TV laying around...Nintendo looks better on it then a Flat screen...no joke). Guess what i got...STATIC...no local, no basic...just static...the building has no Analogue on any channel...maybe it has something to do with when cablevision came in and switched my building to a digital only box....maybe....
I don't know, ive only had good service through cablevision...but, whatever, this is still a very under researched article.
]]>@morganlh85: Comcast made an "upgrade" in their service that has nothing to do with the digital conversion. They now force all of their users (at least in my area of Northern CA) to have a box, whether it's the small "upgrade" box or the big "everything" box. The remotes for the new little boxes don't work correctly (the mute button turns the TV off and the volume buttons - both - turn the volume up only) and the service is terrible so I canceled Comcast and went to ATT U-Verse. Buh-bye, Comcast!
]]>This happened to my mom when she signed up with Comcast-- they gave her a box she didn't want/need JUST so they could force her to enjoy 3 free months of HBO. I took the box back (her TV is cable ready) and attempted to have her only be charged for basic-- and had the same issue-- get a supervisor.
]]>That's probably some sort of security upgrade the cableco purchased from SA. AFAIK, there is no standard for US cableboxes apart from CableCard/Tru2Way, neither of which an SA receiver will accept. I am assuming the card probably looks like a CI card (ie: It is basically a credit card with no swipe, but with a chip), but there is no way SA would make it CI compatible. SA receivers are designed to be locked to a cable provider and never used for anything else.
Cable would have gone out since the box no longer had a way to decrypt the PowerVu keys (or whatever crypto the box is using, the card may be for a new system).
Interesting to hear this, though, because it means there's cracks in the old crypto method, which my cableco uses... :)
]]>Honestly, a move away from a tiering model, and toward a la carte, would be bad for both cable/satellite companies and programmers, but worse for programmers. A whole bunch of channels would just go away, since they can't support themselves without being bundled with others. ESPN would be fine, but niche channels (which include minority and women's programming) would be history - goodbye BET, Lifetime, We, etc. Some would say "well, that's fine by me," and that's a fair position to take, but we shouldn't doubt that it would be the impact.
]]>Besides, you aren't locked into using their boxes, you can buy devices that have been pre-certified by cablelabs. That means a cablecard-ready TV, a pre-built Windows Media Home Theater systems and/or the TiVo Series 3/HD/HD XL.
]]>It's the cable company's network and they have the right to decide if you should use a cable box or not. If they are doing an all-digital switch and require everyone to get a box or a cablecard then that is not only within their right it is better for most of the rest of their customers who want a crisp digital picture and more HD channels.
]]>While he was checking my account to see what cable card I had so he could send a reset signal or whatever to it, he saw that I was being charged for an extra HD cable box. He asked me about 3 times how many tvs I have, and how many boxes. I told him I had no box, just a Tivo Series 3 with cards. He seemed confused (as they all are with this; they just haven't received the proper training on Tivos w/ cards), but instead of just ignoring it, he said he was removing the "extra" box from the account and reimbursing me back 6 months. I won't believe it until I see my next bill, but here's hoping!
]]>Cablevision CS reps are rewarded on upsells and most put that ahead of actually providing cusutomer service.
I had a reschedule a installation because the installer didn't have what he needed when he showed up. The rep told me it would be a month and a half wait UNLESS i opted for their triple play package (aka added phone service) where the wait would only be a few days because 'We offer good service to out good customers'. I told him it was in his best interest to get me the soonest date possible because i would be calling sat tv and Verizon to see if they could be in before whatever date he gave me.
I got a date a week and a half away, the next day i called back, got a different rep and got a reinstall that same day.
]]>And even if they haven't, they are probably planning on doing it soon, so they don't want to send contractors out to ALL of their customers to give them cable boxes when they could have just given them one to begin with.
If I was the cable company I would require all my customers to get boxes too. Consider the $5 fee part of the cost of having cable.
]]>Anyway, I'll continue to dream of that subscription service.
]]>"from what I understand, the cable monopoly tends to have them by the balls (correct me if I'm wrong here)"
You're wrong there. From a national perspective, cable's anything but a monopoly (about 2/3 of total pay TV, and dropping 2-3% of market share every year).
]]>I just assumed the TV was new, and that the rabbit ears were on the old TV.
Looks like I read it wrong, which is my bad.
But still, if the issues was needing the digital box, why didn't the rep/supervisor just -say- that?
And why did they go ahead and approve it anyway?
Still an upsell.
]]>* If you're lucky, you might have a choice between two cable companies. In any case, they are going to force you to purchase shit you will never watch to get what you want (even in the midst of a 5am haze). Some retail equivalent might exist, but I really cannot think of any other industry that will not allow you to buy one thing without forcing another one upon you (you don't even have to buy the whole cd these days).
* Despite installing the proper equipment, some of us will not be able to enjoy a digital signal once the conversion is complete. Sucks to be us, huh? Get basic cable you say? Well...
* as seen in this story, even getting very basic service can require enduring much trickery and deceitfulness.
* Apparently if I don't watch 15 minutes of car (Ford and GM to boot!) and sexist advertising per program, I am cheating someone out of revenue. Boo hoo. I don't live in a car-friendly area, and even if I desired one I would never be able to afford it. Plus, if they want me to watch their ads, they need to realize I'm not a frat boy (even if I started transitioning hormones and began to age backwards).
* Most of us do not shoplift clothing and food. However, we tend to have a great variety and price/quality range for these items, as well as many outlets to choose from. Retailers are also not going to force us to purchase things we don't need. It's important to realize this before getting morally outraged when some choose to obtain their programming by other means. It's easy to apply what you consider to be an objective view on "stealing," except that the cable companies aren't even playing fair themselves.
Many realize that the current tiered cable model (as well as their general service) is outdated and frankly, pretty immoral itself. If the cable industry was ethical and reasonable in its practices, more would pay for service.
Itunes and Emusic have enabled us to exercise more choice in music and programming options, so bable companies need to get their shit together. I've worked for more than one online presence of a cable channel, and from what I understand, the cable monopoly tends to have them by the balls (correct me if I'm wrong here). I definitely don't want to cheat them of revenue, but they really need to find a way to break free of their obligations and offer their content via some third party subscription service.
]]>This isn't specific to Cablevision. I have TiVos with cablecards and my bill EVERY month has the rental fee for that cards (no problem) PLUS an HD cable box *I DON'T HAVE*. When I have hours of free time to argue, I occasionally call them and complain and they will not budge from the "fact" that to get HD service you MUST have a cable box (completely ignoring the fact that cablecard+TiVo Series 3 IS the cable box in my house) and they will not remove the charge.
It's extremely frustrating.
]]>"This may require customers with analog televisions to get a set-top box."
if the TV is digital cable ready, it means it is NOT an analog tv. AKA, not needing one of the company's "cable boxes".
Pretty simple.
]]>Why would I want basic cable when everything I watch is on broadcast stations??
]]>This is just one step away from simply displaying a giant set of boobs along with the message, "switch to Cablevision!"
]]>People have been putting too much blame on the recipients for their supposed unpreparedness, but the landscape for many of us is just not built for digital signals.
Time Warner (my neighborhood monopoly) supposedly offers a basic service, but actually obtaining this requires traveling through the desert, into the cave, and slaying the dragon at the third right turn.
]]>No extra remote, no on screen channel guide, no PPV, no DVR.
Just simple, basic, service.
]]>"Last September, the FCC said hybrid analog-digital cable operators had to carry must carry stations in analog and digital until 2012. All-digital cable systems were exempt from any dual-carriage obligation, however."
]]>Today, a television designated "Digital Cable Ready" (or "DCR") is able, when used in conjunction with a separate CableCARD™ module, to receive one-way digital cable signals - with full image quality - without the need for a traditional cable set-top box.
If the TV was Digital Cable Ready (which I'm guessing is the case) then he needs -no- set top box, regardless of whether the signal is digital or analog.
]]>My call center wasn't CableVision, but had almost the exact thing happen. I worked in tech, but was expected to upsell upsell upsell. It's one of the reasons I'm not there anymore. I'm not a sales guy, I'm a tech guy. I'm better at fixing stuff than selling it.
Don't know if he got the same warm reception as your guy did or not, it happened just before I joined, but it wouldn't surprise me to find it did.
]]>Granted, they don't discuss other alternatives (such as a converter box), but I also don't expect a commercial for a gym to say, "Alternatively, you can jog in your neighborhood and use resistance bands at home."
]]>Did you know that 2 years ago, their tech support department got a new director? he was from t-Mobile. The first thing he said to the techs was "You're not tech support reps. You're customer service reps who do a little technical work on the side."
Yeah, half the building quit that day, they were so insulted. To my knowledge, he never said it again.
]]>As someone pointed out, their (full) basic service may require a box now, but due to must carry regulations, you should still get the local channels on a box free plan. Usually amounted by about 14 channels or so on that plan with my company.
Now it may be like my center, servicing so many areas with so many conflicting rules and packages. They simply may not have -known- that they should be offering the local channel only basic.
Of course it's also true, and probably more likely, that the company leans on the supervisors and the supervisors lean on the agents, and so the agents lean on the customers like this. I hate it, but it does happen.
]]>But from the sound of the call it seems the salesman just wanted to up sell.
]]>There's a good chance the box ISN'T required, but that the little card/authentication dongle is, and therefore a box or ANY card reader would be required?
Insofar as I know, this card is not a Cablecard. It's just a small plastic card with a smart chip on it that inserts into the front of the Scientific Atlanta boxes. They never told me what the card was for, but the one time I pulled it out, the cable shut off.
]]>Young people who are growing up and moving out probably never had to deal with their cable company before.
This is a good lesson for them to learn and remember, and it should help them question other business practices and avoid or detect incompetent/pushy/lying salespeople.
]]>Under the FCC "must carry" rule, they might have dropped all the analog fluff channels one might get with basic cable, but they have to carry, un-encrypted in analog, the available local channels. As cable companies try to remain competitive with HD, on-demand, phone and internet, their systems are full (bandwidth-wise) and going to all-digital gains them space for services. Additionally, all-digital systems requiring a box reduce pirating and multi-view splits.
]]>Also, I can't imagine how bad a company would have to be for the OP to recommend Verizon Customer Service over them, but the discussion he recounts here certainly doesn't describe it. This complaint sounds like a CSR who has been told he has to meet a marketing quota (or his supervisor has) and to meet that quota, sell a box and free HBO trial to EVERY new customer.
I also wonder if they end up charging this guy a sizable installation fee for hooking up basic cable that would have been waived had he gotten the box and free trial.
]]>what kind of installer are you?
]]>As a CableVision prisoner for all my life, I completely understand this guy's frustrations with trying to get something so simple hooked up. I go through this once a year when I have to change the billing name from mine to my wife, then a year later change it back so we can always get the over priced (and least expensive) Triple Play.
CableVision is as bad if not worse than AT&T, BestBuy, Sprint, and well EVERY large conglomerate out there that is imposing its will were its not needed or wanted.
]]>@valen: QAM tends to be digital channels which means (a little) higher quality stuff.... FCC only mandates they give out local news channels for free.... its their business plan to earn more money, to get u to subscribe to their digital service....
]]>"However, for business reasons (among other things, digital is much more efficient than analog), cable companies may be interested in transitioning their systems from analog delivery to digital delivery. If a cable company makes the business decision to go all-digital (meaning it will stop offering any channels to its customers in analog), it must ensure that its analog customers can continue to watch their local broadcast stations. This may require customers with analog televisions to get a set-top box. If the cable company provides the customer with a set-top box, any costs related to it will be determined by the cable company. Therefore, it is recommended that analog cable customers contact their cable company to ask if a set-top box will be needed, when it will be needed, and if there will be a cost."
]]>In order to get digital cable, which many apartments ONLY provide through a contract with their cable company, you need a cable box (this is how Cable managed to get around the legal requirement not to force you to need a cable box.)
Just like on air tv there are now two flavors of cable, digital, and analog.
]]>The point of the letter is that Cablevision tried to force upsell him to a more expensive services.
]]>"However, for business reasons (among other things, digital is much more efficient than analog), cable companies may be interested in transitioning their systems from analog delivery to digital delivery. If a cable company makes the business decision to go all-digital (meaning it will stop offering any channels to its customers in analog), it must ensure that its analog customers can continue to watch their local broadcast stations. This may require customers with analog televisions to get a set-top box. If the cable company provides the customer with a set-top box, any costs related to it will be determined by the cable company. Therefore, it is recommended that analog cable customers contact their cable company to ask if a set-top box will be needed, when it will be needed, and if there will be a cost."
I'm reading that to mean that if Cablevision uses all-digital delivery, you would need their cable box to use their services.
]]>