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huadpe

January 12, 2009 8:33 PM

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I just worry that it's too much information on one card. You forget that card at a restaurant, and the person who has it has all the info they need to conduct transactions online without the card present. In particular, the info that licenses have displayed which credit cards don't is the home address, which is used as a major part of most card verifications.

7 replies

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Davan

January 12, 2009 9:35 PM

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@jeffbone: Why does everyone advertize this as though those $100 yearly (or more) AMEX fees are immaterial? Lets see - $25 to fill up, 3% cash back ($0.75). ~134 fillups a year to pay for that fee, thats roughly a fillup every 2.75 days.

Obviously, you use the card for other things, and thats great. I'm just saying, those cash back things arent just free money.

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jeffbone

January 12, 2009 10:29 PM

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@Davan: sorry, I wasn't clear. I have the Costco-branded AmEx which is essentially free with membership. Others here have pointed out similar alternatives.

Your point is well taken, however, one should look at the total cost of card ownership before getting fixated on cash-back deals (Discover, call your office...).

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David Brodbeck

January 12, 2009 10:08 PM

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@Davan: The AmEx Blue card has cash back and no membership fee.

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Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!)

January 12, 2009 9:52 PM

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@Davan: Not all AmEx cards have fees. I have a Blue Cash card with no yearly fee, excellent cash back rate.

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Wormfather is Wormfather

January 12, 2009 8:50 PM

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@huadpe: Ah Ha, but I have \"Verified by Semen\". A new company that...well, you probobly get the idea.

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Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!)

January 12, 2009 9:02 PM

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@Wormfather is Wormfather: Win! Ew, but win.

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January 12, 2009 8:56 PM

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@Wormfather is Wormfather: Do they make shopping fun again?

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SacraBos

January 12, 2009 8:33 PM

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I'd done some looking for a client on being able to scan drivers license info. From what I could find out, unless you are a law enforcement officer, it's illegal to use the magstrip data from a Texas Drivers License.

So, either that has changed (yeah!) or the are operating illegally... Please let it be the former...

7 replies

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dewsipper

January 14, 2009 4:47 PM

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@SacraBos: They use your driver's license to auto-fill hunting/fishing licenses in Ohio - some places do anyway.

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scottywz

January 12, 2009 9:10 PM

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@SacraBos: Texas Transoprtation Code §521.126:

(e) The prohibition provided by Subsection (b)(1) does not apply to a financial institution or a business if the information is accessed and used only for purposes of identification verification of an individual or check verification at the point of sale for a purchase of a good or service by check.

Maybe they're interpreting this as an exception?

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SabreDC

January 12, 2009 9:40 PM

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@scottywz: Sounds plausible. If this company creates an account for a person, swiping the license is just to verify the individual so the company will authorize the funds...

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SacraBos

January 12, 2009 9:38 PM

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@scottywz: @shadowboxer524: There was a \"Opinion\" by the Texas AG that allowed bars/etc to use it for age testing, but sounds like they codified a little more reasonable expansion of that. Good to know!

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January 12, 2009 8:48 PM

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@SacraBos: Can Texas liquor stores scan DLs to verify age? I know that some stores here in Arkansas scan them for that purpose.

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cjones27

January 13, 2009 7:01 AM

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@shadowboxer524: Yes, they can. It happens to me every time I buy liquor in Austin.

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smallestmills

January 12, 2009 9:23 PM

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@shadowboxer524:
I work retail for a large corporation and when a customer wants to apply for credit or write a check we can swipe the DL and get the info off it such as Name, address, and age, and DL #. According to the license itself, the only information contained when scanned is the same info as what's printed on the front. (In MI.) I'm just surprised our POS machines were updated to accommodate such convenience. (IMO)

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David Brodbeck

January 12, 2009 9:31 PM

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@smallestmills: It'd be a pretty easy feature to add. The mag stripes on driver's licenses follow the same standard as the mag stripes on credit cards, so the existing readers could handle them. It was probably just a software update.

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smallestmills

January 12, 2009 10:05 PM

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@David Brodbeck:
Eh, technology. I usually just chalk it up to magic.

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jeffbone

January 12, 2009 8:37 PM

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Good grief. Talk about one-stop shopping for identity theft.

Besides, I already have two cards in my wallet that refund either 3 or 5% per gallon depending on where I buy gasoline. At any price over $1.00/gallon, I'm still money ahead of this program.

2 replies

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jhpope

January 12, 2009 9:21 PM

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@jeffbone: i was just about to write the same post

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lilyHaze

January 12, 2009 9:04 PM

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@jeffbone: Same here. This goes for the cash discount places too.

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Ayanami

January 12, 2009 8:40 PM

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This is really frickin' cool. I hope it works out for all of us. Credit card processing fees are much higher than the actual cost of approving a card which is fractions of a penny per transaction. It can't possibly cost more than that. I know there are administrative fees and what not, but still, it can't cost nearly as much as they're taking in.

Hey NPC and Consumerist, thank you for helping us help you help us all!

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David Brodbeck

January 12, 2009 8:42 PM

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I'm not a big fan of ACH debits. They're essentially an electronic check, so you have none of the usual consumer protections you get with a credit card. And if you have a dispute with the vendor, they have essentially unfettered access to your checking account and can clean you out.

3 replies

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lauy

January 13, 2009 2:42 AM

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@David Brodbeck:

ACH transactions offer nearly the same protections as debit/check card transactions as far as fraud goes, which is what you appear to be referring to in your post.

Per Reg E and NACHA, you have 60 days from the date of transaction to request reversal of an ACH debit (or credit, if you so chose). You need only complete an affidavit to indemnify the financial institution.

The bonus for ACH reversals is they actually take the money back from the merchant. In a debit/check card transaction, more times than not the bank just credits your account and takes it as a loss. Merchant has no accountability when that happens.

To note, any financial institution with an ACH processing system worth a damn can place what's called a Company ID block. This is essentially an identifier for the merchant. Once it's blocked, anything coming into your account with that company ID is automatically returned as unauthorized. This kind of block is usually good for 6 months to one year and you may need to \"redo\" it periodically.

Now, I may be biased because I work for a financial services software company that owns and supports an ACH processing product, but also having worked with debit/check card for years, I can easily say ACH is as good, if not better than debit/check card.

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azntg

January 13, 2009 4:30 AM

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@lauy: Regardless of the legal protections, if I was in a dispute, I would still prefer that the financial burden be on the side of the credit card issuer than on me directly.

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orlo

January 12, 2009 10:20 PM

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@David Brodbeck: I agree that this is a Bad Idea. Everyone always complains about debit cards being insecure, but ACH lets all hang out.

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Doug81

January 12, 2009 8:43 PM

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Shell has something similar now. shellsavercard.com
It has a pin and they get their money by an electronic check to your checking account. They have a special card for it though. Right now it's $.05/gallon until the promo period ends. Afterward it's $.02/gallon. Saw it at the gas station this weekend.

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themicah

January 12, 2009 8:43 PM

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There are quite a few credit cards out there that give 3-5% cash back on purchases at gas stations, so they're going to have to do a lot better than 3 cents per gallon.

As for the identity theft angle, it says no info is stored on the card. So presumably NPC simply links your driver's license number to your bank account info. While people who directly get access to NPC's systems might be able to get both pieces of information, assuming this system is designed right, nobody (including the gas station) is going to be able to get any more information from your license card itself than they already do today.

1 replies

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johnva

January 12, 2009 10:07 PM

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@themicah: Yeah, no way is 3 cents a gallon enough to persuade me to switch to this. At the height of gas prices, I was getting 20 cents a gallon on my credit card. If they can beat that, I'd consider it, but they won't be able to.

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nffcnnr

January 12, 2009 8:57 PM

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All my private ID info and a link to my bank account?
What could possibly go wrong?!!!!??!!!?1!!

4 replies

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SabreDC

January 12, 2009 9:42 PM

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@nffcnnr: \"All my private ID info...\"

Like what? Your height? Your eye color? Whether or not you wear glasses? It's not like your DL contains your SSN or anything on it.

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Rectilinear Propagation

January 13, 2009 1:57 PM

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@SabreDC: Driver's license number (which in some cases is your SSN), name, address, and birth date.

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January 13, 2009 12:35 AM

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@SabreDC:
Mine does.

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tbax929

January 13, 2009 4:51 AM

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@JamieSueAustin:

Mine, too. (But you can now request to have it changed to a different DL number).

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catastrophegirl chooses not to fly

January 12, 2009 11:33 PM

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@SabreDC: some states used to use the social security number as a drivers license number. i have heard that was changing but i don't know if it's taken effect everywhere yet

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bohemian

January 12, 2009 9:02 PM

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Tying your bank account to your drivers license just doesn't sound very secure. No thanks. I can probably save more by just driving less.

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blitzcat

January 12, 2009 9:06 PM

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NO NO NO

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JGKojak

January 12, 2009 9:11 PM

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As Norm McDonald used to say...

It's all part of the plans for a major, major disaster.

2 replies

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Davan

January 12, 2009 9:36 PM

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Consumerist-Moderator-Roz

January 12, 2009 9:52 PM

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@Davan: Please don't just post 'win'. If you want to express agreement, please do so with some insight into the post or some original response, otherwise it's just junk/spam.

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January 13, 2009 1:40 PM

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@Consumerist-Moderator-Roz: Then we need a thumbs up/down on the side of each comment. There is no way most people are going to write a good comment just to say they like, agree, disagree, or hate someones previous comment. This thumbs system could also be designed to make comments float higher or sink lower in the most popular displayed list. Good comments float to the top, bad ones sink, and there are less junk comments. That is a win, win, and win.

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January 12, 2009 9:17 PM

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Nope, no way, no how. Not gonna do it. Can't make me.

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January 12, 2009 9:26 PM

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I am no tin foil hat wearer, but, this sounds like the test of some sort of Big Brother system to track people's financial transactions.

2 replies

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GTI2.0

January 12, 2009 9:28 PM

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@Triborough: If you don't think your transactions that you make today on your credit card can be correlated back to you by the merchant, without DL info, you're sorely mistaken.

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January 12, 2009 10:24 PM

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@GTI2.0: I do know that, but this takes it one step further by being integrated with something government issued.

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January 12, 2009 9:28 PM

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None of your information on your DL can be used much against you, unless you live in a state where your DL # IS your SSN, in which case you're kind of SOL to begin with. The people panicking about \"BUT WHAT ABOUT ALL MY INFO!\" please consider the fact that 1) If a criminal wants to get ahold of your private information, there are a ton of easier ways to do it than physically confiscating your DL (and really, they'd rather have your credit cards), and 2) no information is stored on the ID card that isn't already there, as the article stated, geniuses.
If you're that paranoid about Fraud/ID theft, be proactive and get some protection in place. I'd bet your CC company offers some kind of coverage, if not your bank. Wouldn't recommend lifelock though (and if you've been a consumerist reader for a few months, you probably already know why). In addition, as most consumerists know, you can put a fraud alert on your credit bureau reports for free, which would alert you to any changes/hits to your report.

Or you could just use cash, everywhere, forever, and never worry about it, ever.

4 replies

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SabreDC

January 12, 2009 9:43 PM

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@deadspork: Isn't there a federal law that prohibits SSNs for DL#s? I could have sworn that one was passed 5 years ago or so. Are states that currently use SSNs in the process of switching over?

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January 16, 2009 10:07 PM

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@SabreDC: Yes, Tbax929 got it, they may have changed it but a lot of people (for some reason) have not opted to renew early, and are carrying around their SSN on their DL.

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tbax929

January 13, 2009 4:52 AM

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I can't speak for other states, but AZ is removing SSNs from DLs when they renew. The problem in AZ is that your DL doesn't expire until you turn 65 (I think). So it's going to be a looooong process.

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David Brodbeck

January 12, 2009 9:32 PM

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@deadspork: The driver's license part doesn't worry me, but the ACH part sure does.

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January 12, 2009 9:30 PM

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Wait until you find out how much information there will be on a National ID card. It's the only card you will need for ANY type of transaction. Maybe not initially but I'm eventually that, that one ID card will contain everything there is to know about you. I say no to the whole thing and would give up my citizenship in order to do so.

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January 12, 2009 9:39 PM

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So what happens if you default on a payment and suddenly your drivers license is suddenly invalid...

this is very evil, nwo, nanny state, big brother, 1984 etc

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SabreDC

January 12, 2009 9:50 PM

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Actually, REAL ID does not add any additional personal information to your card. It simply links all your currently existing government records together (i.e. citizenship status, driving record, etc.) with a common key. Basically your DL number will be the primary key for your records at all agencies, whereas right now, each agency has their own key (SSA has your SSN, state police use your DL#, etc.)

The only mandated information that must be on the national ID card is name, DOB, gender, address, DL number, a photograph, and a signature.

The difference is that the national ID card will require a standard process for obtaining, instead of having each state dictate what paperwork is necessary. For example, Virginia residents need to provide proof of citizenship, proof of legal presence, and proof of residence to get a DL. In PA, at least when I had a DL, you only needed legal presence and residence. National ID will require all three documents nationwide (which would equate to SSA card, birth certificate, and a utility bill).

Everyone has misconceptions that national ID will have your fingerprints and retina scans on it and other biometrics, or some hokey stuff like that. REAL ID is the Microsoft Vista equivalent: all misconceptions without people actually knowing what it entails.

Did you know that almost every state already meets the REAL ID standards for what must be on the card? The only problems is that each state has to redo how it gives out cards and how other state agencies keep track of your records. It won't change for YOU at all.

9 replies

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January 12, 2009 11:44 PM

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O yeah btw, we already have a national ID, its called your social security number. Even though many years ago it was written on the card that it was not to be used for identification purposes.

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SabreDC

January 13, 2009 9:21 PM

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@TorrentFreak: Actualy, your social security number is your unique identifier for the Social Security Administration ONLY. Not everyone has one. In fact, federal law prevents it from legally being required as an identifier in any other agency.

It's no different than having a driver's license number at the DMV. Except with National ID, it will be the same number.

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January 12, 2009 11:43 PM

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I don't care how easy it makes it for the government I won;t participate in it. I don't trust them enough and neither should you. This is how we lose our liberties, one small piece at a time. They just keep getting eroded. What happens if a lot of people like myself refuse to be \"included\" in this national ID effort? What then? It's bullshit that the government is okay with invasion of our privacy and it's even more ridiculous that you are fine with it. The line must drawn somewhere and I'm drawing it here.

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SabreDC

January 13, 2009 9:18 PM

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@TorrentFreak: You're 100% free not to participate in it. Just don't expect the privilege of operating your vehicle on government-maintained roads, sending your children to government-run schools, receive government-provided benefits like Social Security, and so on. No one is forcing you to get one.

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orlo

January 12, 2009 10:22 PM

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@SabreDC: The biggest misconception about Real ID is that it serves some legitimate purpose.

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SabreDC

January 12, 2009 10:46 PM

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@orlo: It serves many legitimate purposes. It puts a true relational database behind government record keeping, making it much more efficient. Do you know how much time is wasted if the state police pull over someone with a stolen tag to try and find if that person is a citizen or an illegal alien? Have you ever had to transfer a license from one state to another? When I moved from PA to VA, I had to sit for a cumulative 12+ hours in DMVs waiting. The transfer process takes so long because VA, for example, has to create you in their system with the necessary bookkeeping procedures. Wouldn't it be much more efficient to just click a button and transfer your old records to your new state?

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catastrophegirl chooses not to fly

January 13, 2009 5:50 AM

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@SabreDC: and somehow, i have this feeling that i'd rather sit 12 hours at the DMV than make it any easier for the guy who has been stalking me for 18 years to find out which state i moved to through a national database.

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January 12, 2009 10:26 PM

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@orlo: It does serve a legitimate purpose - pork!

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January 12, 2009 10:10 PM

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@SabreDC: Fingerprints, retina scans, biometrics, + RFID is all hokey stuff?! It's coming my friend. There will be a day when you will be forced to have a RFID or similar device embedded under your skin without your consent.

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SabreDC

January 12, 2009 10:42 PM

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@kaptainkk: Yes, and we'll all have flying cars and teleporters by the year 2000.

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Chris Lehr

January 13, 2009 12:15 AM

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In austin, and neither store with an Austin address is terribly close to work or home, or I might have trialed this.

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January 13, 2009 2:49 AM

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Why not just get an RFID chip implanted in your hand? That would be convenient then, wouldn't it?

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Keter

January 13, 2009 4:08 AM

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I live near Austin and have never heard of this. No way would I participate in it, either. My wallet was stolen (from my desk at work) last year, and it was enough hassle getting my credit and debit cards canceled and reissued. I still don't have a new driver's license because they require a birth certificate, and the country where I was born seems to have lost an entire block of birth certificates when they changed databases (sometime within the last 30 years)...mine included. I can't get a solution from them and may have to go to court...to do...something (totally not clear if there is a remedy!). If I had to pay for stuff with a driver's license, I'd be dead by now.

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azntg

January 13, 2009 4:33 AM

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Anybody else think that this one will fall flat like that \"pay by fingerprint\" brouhaha?

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cjones27

January 13, 2009 7:07 AM

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I'm a student at UT, and to be honest, I actually like this idea. I've lost credit cards, debit cards, all sorts of things - but never my license. If I could just carry the license when I go down to 6th Street, I'd be pretty happy.

And to whoever said SSNs are included on driver's licenses: they aren't in Texas. My SSN and DL# don't even have two consecutive digits in common. The only difference from having someone steal your license and looking in the phone book is your DL#. This number is, at least in Texas, fairly useless when it comes to ID theft.

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djanes1

January 13, 2009 2:18 PM

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With times like these, and gas prices what they are, and how the economy is right now, every little bit counts.

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opsomath

January 13, 2009 2:55 PM

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Cash.

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January 13, 2009 5:31 PM

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This is one step away from microchips. Sorry...NO.

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January 13, 2009 6:41 PM

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Any chance in the \"fine print\" this can (or eventually will) be used to automatically debit traffic fines, parking tickets, etc., from your bank account?

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February 21, 2009 6:11 AM

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I live in Austin around the corner from this station and I use my ID. I actually paid 15 cents less per gallon, though I am not sure why.
I understand the hesitation to use your ID for this. Then again, it sounds like my dad complaining about not wanting to put his credit card info in to buy things online.
I only use a visa check card anyway, no credit cards, so I don't normally have the protection mentioned above.
I like the idea of cutting the credit card companies out. I am sick of businesses telling me I have to spend X amount to use my card (even though I know that is against the agreement, it is also unenforceable). Considering how prevalent using cards are now for all purchases large and small, due to economy of scale, shouldn't the fees merchants have to pay be smaller?

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