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I feel I always find out about one too late and the scheme will soon be broken. How do you find them when they are just getting started?
NOBODY gets in early. The testimonials by those who claim to have joined the MLM early are shills.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-160387-100x100.png\")
@thewriteguy: Nonsense! I know of one way to get in early that works every time: Be the originator!
Of course, I think there are laws that could slow you down...
I'd add another red flag -- If the company does not offer to buy back any merchandise you're asked to sell at anything less that 80% of the price paid for it from the MLM company, it's probably a pyramid scheme.
The last MLM thing I went to was at the home of a guy I knew, and out of the 12 people who showed only myself and one other person weren't already in it. The rest were ringers who all acted like they were interested and excited, but I overheard several conversations about how much they had already sold, etc. So cheesy.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-42732-100x100.png\")
@Canino: That would have been fiendishly clever if they hadn't blown their cover. Amazing the lengths they'll go to.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-326654-100x100.png\")
I had a \"friend\" from school try to recruit me into that mess once, and it made me distrust him. It's still the first thing I think about when I see him.
Rule 6: If anyone approaches you about a great position at a \"marketing\" company, it's definitely a pyramid scheme.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-143777-100x100.png\")
@InfiniTrent: Yeah, one of my best friends got into one a couple of years ago because one of his shyster perpetual-salesman-type buddies convinced him to join up. I wouldn't trust the dude as far as I could throw him - he's one of those gladhanding phony dudes who's always got several schemes running at once, but never one REAL job - but my best friend bought right into it, whole hog.
It was really painful when he came to me all bright-eyed and tried to get me involved and I had to turn him down. No way in hell was I sinking my money and time into it, but I was as tactful as I could be. Needless to say, my best friend lost a lot of money and free time chasing this bullshit, and it's not something we talk about at all, because he's embarrassed he fell for it.
But he's still friends with that phony douchebag!!
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-537475-100x100.png\")
@SybilDisobedience: All of my friends have been approached by one person we went to high school with, who got mixed up with his brothers in this type of scheme and keeps trying to talk us into it. All of us have said no, not only because we know exactly what he's trying to sell, but also because we chose to get real jobs. What's really sad is that these guys all went to college, and they're choosing not to use their education, but they're trying to make a quick buck.
Rule #1 should be: Above all else, remember that there is no such thing as easy or free money.
@InfiniTrent: It has always baffled me that people actually fall for this crap. They all yammer on at these meetings, on websites, etc., that the key to success is \"Marketing.\"
What crap. The key to a successful business is getting enough people to buy something you have to sell, and getting them to pay more for it than it cost you. Marketing is a part of it, yes, but all the interest in product (which is what marketing does) is worthless unless people actually buy something.
@sirwired: It has always baffled me that people actually fall for this crap.
That reminds me of a dinner I was at just a couple of years ago, and the people at the next table were going on and on about this \"opportunity\" they had been offered, describing it to their friends they were with. It was a classic MLM deal someone was trying to get them into. Six adults were at the table and not one of them sounded like they had ever heard of MLM. It was all brand new to them. The one couple explained it carefully to the others and they all discussed it and couldn't see any downside. They seriously all sounded like children with no common sense or business sense whatsoever.
I wondered how six different people could get to be in their 30s and 40s without having ever heard of this, but apparently the pool of naive people is unlimited.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-21984-100x100.png\")
@Canino: @InfiniTrent:
I second the opinion on the numbers as a tracking method for the specific commercial advertisement.
Rule 7: If the person giving the presentation says multiple times, without provacation, \"This is not a pyramid scheme\", it is, in fact, a pyramid scheme.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-56791-100x100.png\")
If they spend just as much, or more, time telling you:
1. How much money you'll make
2. How much better the quality of your life can be
3. How you can \"set your own hours\" and \"run your own business\"
as they do telling you about the product itself - run away.
@MissedTheExit: No kidding, I run my own business and when starting out it's a ton of work for little pay - this is the norm if they tell you otherwise they are outright lying.
@MissedTheExit: Good call.
Generally, if they seem to spend more time selling the opportunity to you than interviewing you to see if you are qualified, run away.
I once went to an \"interview\" with Primerica, which is some sort of mortgage fianance scheme. I walked in and there were a bunch of other people and there was weird chanting going on and people passing out checks. The chanting was a dead givaway that this was a pyramid scheme of some sort.
@badgeman46: As far as I am aware of, about Primerica:Red Flag #2, they never talk about the business unless it is by appointment only.
Red Flag #3, even when we go to a store, the reps there expect us to buy stuff even if they don't get bonuses out of the sales, so this flag goes for EVERY business, even fast food.
Red Flag #4, just as if you were working on a big Corporate company, the difference is that in Corporate America you have a boss, schedule, salary and 0 overrides :o(
Red Flag #5, in Primerica you do not get paid by recruiting someone itself and they get BIG commissions from helping a family that \"purchases\" one of their products and/or services.
So I guess Primerica does fall into this category.
My suggestion, just listen to someone who is financially independent or about to be, if you don't know someone like that then try reading their books and/or listening to their tapes, it will sure truly help.
I think in life the worse thing you can ever do, is the one you don't do.
Hope this helped.
Best of Lucks!
@badgeman46: A friend of mine has been part of Primerica for about 5 years. Two things:1) Unlike other MLM systems, people working for Primerica really do help people. They are not selling toothpaste or crap, they are working as financial advisors and helping people organize debt repayment plans, get proper insurance, etc. He has told me many stories of people he's helped and he finds it extremely rewarding.2)While most people start their own business by using those close to them as contacts/leads, etc., one quickly runs out and has to work hard to get more. Yes, this is a 100% commission job. Yes you have to get your own leads. You are running your own business and acting as service provider, salesman, and marketer. The better you are at all three, the more your business grows.I've been exposed to a few of these MLM systems and while there is a LOT of talk about \"the System\" and \"the Lifestyle\", the people who are actually successful in it will also explain how hard it is and how much work it is. Like starting any business, you have to work HARD to make these work. Just because it's an MLM system does not mean it's bad, it just means it attracts a lot of short-sighted people who fall for the pitch of a quick fortune.From everything I've heard, Primerica (and I don't work for them, never have) is a great opportunity to get a lot of training in insurance (paid by them), and be around a lot of people who want to succeed and help others.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-684304-100x100.png\")
@badgeman46: I have a friend who is interning for Primerica and as far as I can tell its not a pyramid scheme. If I remember correctly its owned by CitiGroup.
@PittDragon: it's part of citigroup, but it's not like a job in the sense that you get a paycheck. It's basically a 100% commission based sales job, selling financial services. If that sounds appetizing to you, more power to you. I'll pass (and have, after I had an \"interview\" there also).
@lpranal and the magic holiday taco dip: I got a sketchy phone call from a Primerica guy, and since I had never heard of the company, and also had never applied to a marketing, sales, management position in my life, I was wary of what they were offering...I mean, anyone can take a casual look at my resume and determine that I was not going into marketing of any kind, nor does my experience reflect sales. But they called me, and they wanted me to come in for an orientation and a tour of the building and an interview, and I was like \"ummm...\" and then I talked to a few of my friends and one of them mentioned that people had set up a protest area outside one of the Primerica buildings or in a parking lot, and they had banners saying that Primerica was a scam...
@PittDragon: It may be different now, as this was about 10 years ago that I did this. My guess is it was purchased by Citigroup. But here are the specifics and you can decide for yourself. You refinanced mortgages, except, surprise, you had to find your own leads. In the \"interview\" the sucess stories were these people who obviously pestered their friends and family to refinance. It was also a recruiting based system.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-233963-100x100.png\")
What if they call it a \"Financial Instrument\"?
The basic rule to look for is the following: Is there more emphasis on recruitment or selling. If the lion's share of revenue and profit are people buying stuff from themselves, or selling \"distributorships\" (Amway, Herbalife, YTB, etc.), it's likely a scam or at the least an extremely lousy business.
If the lion's share of sales are genuine retail sales to people not participating in the \"opportunity\" (Tupperware, Mary Kay, etc.), it is likely to be legit.
SirWired
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-488475-100x100.png\")
@sirwired:
I don't know about Tupperware, but every Mary Kay party I've been to they spend at least a half hour trying to get you to sell the stuff.
Personally, I like the brand but it's kind of expensive, and I'd rather get my cosmetics where I can actually pick them up and walk out the door with them right then.
Here's a simpler way. Does the company want to \"Hire\" you without and interview and resume? Then it's bogus.
There. Wasn't that easy?
Red Flag 0.5: Someone invites you to their home to hear about a \"great new business opportunity\".
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-34412-100x100.png\")
Yes! I think the common buzzword I've seen/heard with pyramid schemes is \"opportunity\". It's not a business. It's not a career. It's not a job. It's an \"opportunity\".
@cozymoses: Red Flag 0.51: Said someone won't tell you the name of the company they \"work\" for or is very vague about what the business actually does.
Exactly. Plus if someone wants to sell a $300 \"system, package, or kit\" in order to make $10,000 a month or whatever just say \"Great, take the $300 out of my first paycheck.\"
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-243563-100x100.png\")
How about if you see a tv ad for a work at home opportunity, people sitting poolside with their laptops and fruity frozen cocktail hard at work, and the web address for the company -- www.[some number]crazyfox.xom -- changes everytime you see it?
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-543146-100x100.png\")
@Philonius_Louvin: I saw those Crazy Fox commercials, but I'll be dead and buried before I work for a Furry.
>_<
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-350350-100x100.png\")
@RecordStoreToughGuy: You will also note that if you go to one of those Crazy Fox sites it won't tell you a damned thing about what the business is about until you sign up.
@Philonius_Louvin: I actually figured those ads out, and why you see the crazy web addresses. You generate \"leads\" for more MLM businesses. Actually, those ads ARE the leads. That is why they are www.2983crazfox.com or www.388monkeymadness.com or www.29path.com. Each website is an individual's website who is in the scheme.
@badgeman46: Makes sense to me. And that just makes it all the more obvious that it's a scam... unless you don't pay attention to that kind of stuff.
@Philonius_Louvin: I think the reason they put those random numbers in there is so they can track which advertisements are generating the most clickthrough.
Just a theory, but as a marketing guy, that's my best guess.
@Philonius_Louvin: I have a feeling that the amazing work from home opportunity involves placing advertisments on cable tv for amazing work from home opportunities.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-1196-100x100.png\")
One classic catch phrase they use is \"You don't like making money?\"
They never have a good comeback when you say \"Actually...no.\"
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-439678-100x100.png\")
@Troy F.: There are these signs near my house that say: \"MAKE CEO LEVEL INCOME FROM HOME!!! don't believe? don't call!\"
I wonder if anyone called
The signs by me turned out to be part of a phone scam.
The number would have a local area code but somehow was linked to a number in the bahamas that charged ~$10 per minute. They even had a special on 20/20 regarding this scam (this was ~5 years ago)
@snowburnt: I see those too... I wonder what manner of B.S. they are pushing.
As a side note, my local poster of those signs has \"downgraded\" the promised income. It's now \"MAKE EXECUTIVE LEVEL INCOME FROM HOME\".
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-328161-100x100.png\")
@sirwired: For a while, cheap signs saying \"Successful real estate investor seeks apprentice. To 100k\" with a phone number. I thought, who would believe that a successful anyone would be recruiting using yard-sale signage? But to the naive and hopeful, it could look good.
@DidSomeoneSayCookie?: Not to mention the unemployed. Once you're out of a job for 7 months or so, and you've gone on what feels like 76,000 interviews with no luck, a sign like that can look like a beam of light from heaven. The shitty thing is, those are the people who LEAST need to be throwing their money away on a pyramid scheme.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-505944-100x100.png\")
Reminds me of the story my mother tells about when she and some friends opened a preschool: She'd invited a lot of their mutual friends to our house for a party, and after dinner, proudly said 'Well, I suppose you're all wondering why we've invited you to celebrate tonight. . . .' Turns out half the guests thought it was Amway! The preschool, unlike a pyramid scheme, did well for many years.
@JulesNoctambule:
I just want to point out that Amway has done well for many years and it's a pyramid scheme. Now, 99.9% of the distributors haven't done well at all, but Amway itself... oh yeah, they're doing great.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-81727-100x100.png\")
Ah Yes, good ole ACN. My friend's ex was heavily into this company. We tried to warn her about it. My friend even went to a meeting with her once and after asking them about the stuff we told her, she was told she needed to get rid of us from her life because we were \"bad apples\" that didn't want her to succeed. She lost thousands of dollars on this and Arbornne.
@Alexander: Wow, if someone tried to do this to me I would probably trash them just because I think it shows what kind of person someone is if they try to get involved in one of these, they are obviously greedy and in it for nothing but the money. I really don't want a bunch of greedy and uninformed people as my friends. If they really ARE listening to a company tell them to trash all their friends because they are bad apples, then I have to wonder what kind of person that friend was in the first place, and if they are really worth keeping around as a friend.
Also probably the worst thing you can do with your life is to lose money, become unemployed and lose all your friends. These scams obviously have the power to change people, even if you are unemployed from the start your better off not buying into one of these and just holding onto your friends, because at least you still have something. If you buy into the MLM then you will lose your friends, get yourself deeper in the hole when it comes to finances AND you will still be unemployed.
6. Whenever they tell you you can 'be your own boss'.
Senior year of college I had my resume on the college intern/job finding site. I got a call and an interview ON CAMPUS with Primerica Financial. I thought it sounded like a good opportunity until I went to their seminar. I was there with about 10 people with me being the only college student (everyone else was over 40). The guy kept talking about how much money we could make by just selling financial advice and we could be own own bosses by setting hours and clients.
I got up and walked right out.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-259013-100x100.png\")
This is why I won't buy AMSOIL. It's probably a great oil (at least there's LOTS of \"evidence\" supporting that) but I just can't get over how it's marketed and sold.
Relevant to #1: If you ask about \"market saturation,\" all you get is a blank look. They'll keep recruiting and recruiting until the area is packed wall-to-wall with members, because they know how high the turnover tends to be.
Also, they'll encourage you to recruit your customers, though I'm not sure how that works out to be profitable -- yeah, you get a commission for every product they purchase, but you'd think it would be easier and more lucrative just to sell the products to them.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-1713-100x100.png\")
#6: Bernie Madoff is involved.
Oh wait, that's a Ponzi scheme, not a MLM scheme.
I had a friend of mine, that I hadn't seen in several years, call me out of the blue last week. She said her company was looking for people, and asked if I was interested. I asked her what her company did, and she said something about marketing, and that I should meet her the next day at Panera.
I went the next day and some guy gives me a whole presentation about this company. He never told me what they did. All he said was that they were using the internet to cut out the middle man, and link companies directly to consumers. They had set up a \"toll booth\" on the internet so everybody has to go through them. If I wanted to learn more I had to go to an information session, because it's easier to just explain it once to a bunch of people.
The guy seemed to focus more on how much money I could make, and refused to talk about what they did. That was my tip off that this was a MLM scheme.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-6171-100x100.png\")
@HarcourtArmstrong: So that's what that is. There have been people in Starbucks for a few weeks now having those meetings. I overhear them talking about the internet and cutting out the middle man and then inviting them to a seminar at one of the local hotels. It reeked of MLM, I just couldn't figure out which one. I feel sorry for the people they're pitching to. This area doesn't have much opportunity for well-paying jobs, and these are young couples with new babies or people that have just been laid off. I've seen a few of these, and you have to pay like $50/month to have them host your website and you have to maintain it and are locked in to their crappy products.
@chris_d: Yeah, if a business wanting to hire you doesn't tell you what they actually do (hopefully they would give a decent explanation), then you have a scam on your hands, regardless of the type of scam.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-541696-100x100.png\")
@HarcourtArmstrong: that's quixstar/amway! i went to one of their seminar things once...that was the dude's bis selling point. the internet is the way of the future! no one wants to shop in stores anymore! gas is so expensive! he talked a lot about some friends he had who made millions and now sit around at home all day, but he never really said what they actually do.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-738213-100x100.png\")
Or...
If it looks like simply selling a stupid product will allow you to make a living, when people who sell things like CARS and HOUSES are having trouble making ends meet.
My in-laws are in a different MLM every six months. Here's where they went wrong. About 14 years ago, they were in one that actually worked. They made $15,000-$20,000 per month for three months.
They bought new cars, a big new house on a 15 year mortgage and everything in those three months and it stopped. Some people actually went to prison over it. The money obviously stopped coming in and they have been chasing false dreams every since. And the big new house on a 15 year mortgage, they've managed to keep (they had a pretty good income before), but over Christmas I found out that they now owe 17 years on it due to refinancing and pulling out money to pay debt.
My mother-in-law thinks that my wife and I are stupid for not getting involved, not to nmention the dozens of friends they have alienated since getting involved in this crap. I think they have had to change churches 8 or 10 times because of getting people involved in MLMs.
Always ask the recruiter what the profit margin is to the seller. Ie Actual consumer purchase price minus product cost to seller = the actual profit. (Of course less operating expenses, etc but you get the idea)
1. If the recruiter has no idea what profit margin is- run.
2. If the recruiter stresses that your downstream recruits will make you the money on what they sell- run.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-460519-100x100.png\")
Oh god, I worked closely with two people who were into Quixtar. I directly reported to (and was friendly with) one of them. It sucked. I had to hear about it ALL DAY LONG. They were discussing it and making Quixtar calls on company time and pressuring me to join them. They finally did lay off when they realized I wasn't going to join up.
Then they both got laid off, which I always wondered about (Did our boss know what they were up to? I never told, but we sat in close proximity to other people who must have heard it all). Which wasn't a problem, of course, because they were \"moving up the ladder and about to make tons of money, anyway.\"
Mary Kay may be \"legitimate\" but the market is oversaturated and the products are overpriced (I would say they are about drugstore quality). That and you can always expect your director to be dialing for dollars at the end of the month to get you to order...Then before you know it you have stacks of cosmetics on your shelves that are not moving. Check out www.pinktruth.com
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-11023-100x100.png\")
I would say that the use of \"upline\" in general is something that should be a red flag. I mean, if you really like the stuff and you want to try your hand at selling it, go ahead, I don't care. But if you don't already have experience with the product, beware. The same company that might be a great place to sell if you already love what you're selling could be a total scam if you're talked into trying to sell it even though you don't care a whit about the product. Anything where part of the product's price is going to people whose only affiliation with the sale is that they convinced someone else to sell for the company months ago... well, it stands to reason that after a couple layers of that, the price is going to be pretty inflated.
It's not a pyramid scheme, it's triangular marketing...
..that said, in my younger days I was approached at a Best Buy by a young man who said \"Did you go to {insert local college name here}?\" I actually went to a meeting with him for fun where he described no product even when I inquired and just explained the system. I said I'd think about it and when I called him to say I wasn't interested, he told me off and hung up on me. Since then, I have seen him at BB, Target, Blockbuster, and the grocery store asking people if they went to Kings College... ass.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-255368-100x100.png\")
@docrice: Or \"inverted funnel\" is being used. Basically by morons who couldn't find their backside using one with both hands.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-763540-100x100.png\")
My orthogonal matrix derivatives company, M. Yass Investments, is recruiting salesmen. You can work from home, but the training material is $5,000.
@Rugbyjersey: And let me guess - the training material consists of a, 8\"x11\" laminated photo of your ass?
So I actually had a run-in with an ACN \"opportunity\" once several years ago - I was in a coffee shop writing an essay and I let someone else sit on my sofa because I wasn't using it all and there were no other seats. This girl was very, very sweet and she shyly confided to me that she was in a job interview that a friend of hers called her about and she was really nervous.
A little later, her friend and this other gentleman arrive and the gentleman launches into what sounds much, much more like a sales pitch than a job interview. I overhear him telling how he was a psychology teacher of some sort, but wasn't making the big bucks, and somehow he got involved in ACN and he's now making them. There were a lot of high-pressure sales techniques being employed (and between undergrad psych and law school, I was starting to get a very bad feeling about my shy friend's ability to get out of there without signing up and paying $500+). I ended up googling ACN and learning all I could about it - and, since this was at the point where they were successfully sued in Australia, and being sued in Canada and several states, I became alarmed and went to tell the coffee shop manager. They'd taken out the paperwork at this point, and my shy friend was trying to politely decline, but she kept getting badgered to sign. The store manager came over to observe, and in the mean time, the gentleman basically discovered my opposition to his sales pitch and launched an angry attack on me.
I barely managed to hold my own, and in the end, he went off without getting anything signed - though I don't know if they just decided to take it up at another time. I do know that my shy friend lingered behind in the bathroom to thank me for standing up for her because she didn't know how to say no to them.
It's really the taking advantage of people that gets me - this gentlemen, the self described \"poor psychology teacher\" knew full well how to bewilder and coerce his prospective business partner to sign up, and he was using pretty much every trick in the book. And yes, it sucks that she didn't have the self-confidence to speak up and say, \"No, I don't want to get involved in this, so bugger off,\" but that's not really the point. That's why they chose her.
/inchoate ramble-rant.
@Wit: I agree with you, and applaud you for what you did. That was nice.
However, the people I know who've fallen for these things aren't generally the shy, retiring types. They're usually outgoing types who are bad with money, always looking for the easy way, and confident that they can work the system. I suppose the pitch is tailored to the personality type, though.
I was immunized, in a way, against MLM in high school when someone made me sit through an Amway presentation before they would pay me for mowing their lawn. Yes, folks, they were just that pathetic.
A friend tried to recruit me to ACN about 3 years ago, and at the time it cost $500 to join!!!!
Just a tad bit ridiculous.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-53958-100x100.png\")
Am I the only one who starts looking for the nearest exit when someone uses the phrase \"Business Opportunity\"?
@Officer Jim Pantsoffski:
You're not the only one. I frantically start thinking of any excuse to get the hell out. It's a dead giveaway.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-355288-100x100.png\")
@chris_d: I just get up and leave. If they have a problem with it, oh, well.
Also, the fake phone call app for the iPhone works wonders for this too.
along with tales of peoples' encounters with mysterious white vans peddling them suspect merchandise, I love reading personal stories about MLMs. Keep 'em coming! :)
I got suckered into going to a textbook selling one. I'm pretty sure my college sold my email address to them because I got an email for an 'internship'. When I showed up it was southwest corp (selling books door to door). All the usual run your own business crap. I stuck around for all of 10 minutes.
I can't wait until this stuff hits my area, it hasn't hit yet but Avon and Tupperware parties are popular. I fear the day that my mom comes home with a bottle of Monavie! Given the fact that I live in an area with a population of which 60-70% is on welfare it should not take long. Though nowadays not many people have time for parties so those are kind of out. Avon isn't so bad though because at least you are buying a real product, yeah half of their catalog is pure Chinese junk but their cosmetics are cheap and certain ones are ok.
Could someone elaborate on or clarify Red Flag #5 for me?
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-184636-100x100.png\")
PROTIP: If it's Quixtar or Amway, it's a scam!
Someone who had some Quixtar business site used to relentlessly promote his stuff on a forum I went to. right around every holiday. And with his webpage in his signature. Eventually, after a few tipoffs, he was banned. Good riddance.
I was just sux0red pretty bad by PURE Marketing in King of Prussia, PA. They had a good looking career opportunity listed on www.indeed.com for an entry level marketing job. They promised fast track management with bonuses for building the company below you.
They are an incarnation of Smart Circle.
They trained me to go out for 12 hours at a time and find home improvement leads for companies like PJ Fitzpatrick, Power Windows and Siding, and Owens Corning. I was trained to go door to door and find leads by talking about windows, roofing, and siding. I then had to use my cell phone to verify the lead to a call center operator and have the \"customer\" speak to the call cetner to verify the leads authenticity. Each lead paid $50. It was common to pull two or three a day.
As you advance through the career ladder, you train people below you, and when you promote those below you, you get a portion of their earnings. All the was up to the national consultant, who also gets a portion of your earnings.
The company expects you to pay to drive about 50-60 miles or more per day without reimbursement in your own vehicle, as well as stay for 12 hours 6 days a week.
All in all I made about $400 after a week of hard work, and then on Sunday did my research better to find out the scam. Many of the companies are listed on www.ripoffreport.com. Here is a partial list:
PURE Marketing
Primal Marketing
3W Concepts
Smart Circle
Sea Breeze Marketing
Titan Marketing
DS Max
Champion Marketing
Vizion Marketing
Choice Promotional Group
Quantum Events
JDR International
Granton Marketing
INOVAGE
Cant say I didnt warn you.
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This is prime time for MLM scams. My brother fell for Wealth Unlimited in the mid-eighties and nearly fell for a bizarre ($500 premium per month) insurance program. A cousin fell for Amway and always tried to sell the family pants.
I was at a meeting of my AA cult and some asshat tried shilling Primerica. we heckled him.
Don't mess with soggy-headed sober people, Shill.
I hate it when my friends get suckered. They start calling and calling offering you their garbage. Of course, they won't listen to reason, and only once they have spent a sufficient amount of money (with no return) do they give it up.
Lost a bunch of friends this way. Fortunately, the closest friends ultimately gave up before we got to that stage.
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I'm glad a lot of people have heard of ACN. I went with a friend to a meeting about 7 years ago. It was at someone's house and the pitch was incredible. They told us how there was a convention coming up and we could come see for ourselves how the big sellers were doing. They had stories on how the parking lots would be filled with nothing but Lexus and Benz cars, with big ballers. All these wide eyed kids could not wait to sign up. They said ACN would reimburse you for all materials you bought, but that was only after your reached a certain level. Before that, you have to buy into the program and buy some startup materials with your own money. They also sold a ton of motivational books and CDs. It was all bullshit and I smelt it from a mile away, but being super polite, I sat through the pitch. I think they may had refreshments afterward.
My friend joined and I watched him try to call his friends and family members to get them to switch phone service to ACN's. He honestly tried to work hard in the program and recruit more people. But after a while, he never mentioned anything about it. I think it was shame when he found out the hard way :(
you do understand that anyone who did that (buy term life and then invest it in Primerica-Citigroup's own mutual funds) in the past year and a half has been slammed by the crashing stock market harder than a screen door in a hurricane...
In fact, without even looking at the specifics, I'd say about 99% of them are doing worse than if they'd have just kep their money the way they did before Primerica...
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I did the Amway thing when I was about 18; thing was, I was actually a pretty good salesman and actually sold a lot of product.
Then I started getting pestered to sign other people up. Can't just sell, gotta recruit. That's when I stopped paying attention to my chain of distributors and just sold a few things to people who couldn't live without Amway driveway cleaner or whatever.
Eventually, I just let my annual membership lapse.
Fast forward, I'm in my 30's and working full time in IT, and an old friend from college calls me up and starts chatting about the old days. I ask what he's up to, and he mentions that he's into something new, he wants me to take a look at it. He says he's got some tapes to send me, that he wants me to listen to. This is a guy who, in college, everyone pegged for Governor or President some day, so I figured if he was into something new, it had to be hot.
Get the tapes, and sure enough it's Amway. I politely decline the next time I talk to him. Oh well, he could have been Governor of Illinois one day, and now he sells Amway.
@humphrmi: And the current Governor of Illinois may need to sell Amway soon in order to make a living. Things come around.
Sheesh, that'a about the most user unfriendly site I've visited in a long time. Not a very easy navagation experience.
Number 6: If they mention anything from Robert Kiyosaki, it's not legit.
Anyone heard of \"Freedom Counselors Inc\"? I'm waiting for a phone call back from one of these guys. I told him I'd need to take a look at their website and whatnot. If it's relatively new, maybe I'll jump on board.. lol
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Two simple tests.
Does it look too good to be true? Yes? Then it probably is.
Does it look like a scam, smell like a scam and sound like a scam? Yes? Then it's probably a scam.
I was eating dinner the other day at a local restaurant and heard this guy trying to recruit some people into a pyrmid scheme. It was hysterical and sad all at the same time.
For the record- the research for the article is extremely lacking.
ACN offers the following services:
-Digital VOIP VideoPhone
-Tradtional Digital VOIP
-Traditional Local/LD
-Wireless thru Verizon, Sprint, Altell, Nextel, T-Mobile, AT&T
-Residential Satellite TV thru DirectTV and Dishnetwork
-Business Satellite TV thru DirectTV
-Home Security through ADT
-DSL internet
ACN currently operates in 19 different countries.
ACN has a legal advisory board consisting of 3 former State's Attorney General (Kansas, Kentucky,Arizona) as well as former consumer regulatory chairmen from Australia and Canada.
ACN is personally endorsed by Donald Trump.
ACN, it's Videophone and it's leaders will be showcased on a 2-hour long NBC Primetime episode of Celebrity Apprentice on Sunday March 22.
A simple Google search will yield RECENT info that in 12/2008, ACN purchased a 63% controlling interest in videophone maker Worldgate and has finalized an agreement with that company to purchase $50 million in videophones over a 2-year period.
First off, I'm not involved with ACN, but I am someone who studies business models. Not all MLM are bad. Some are great.
Second off, you clearly didn't do your research and sound like a fool to anybody who has been to one of ACN's presentations.
ACN hasn't only offered long distance in years.
Their core business products are, Long distance (like you said), All major cell phone carriers, DSL (in some markets), Direct and Dish TV, and video phone service.
That's not the problem with ACN. If you look at their payment model the only way to make great $$$ is to recruit like mad. The commissions on the products only start out at 1% and work up to 10% after you have recruited enough hard workers.
I have friends in ACN and they are trying to recruit me, If it wasn't so front loaded on recruitment I'd be more interested.
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Red Flag #5: The venue for this amazing business investment offer is in someones mom's living room.
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I went to a WLG recruiting session once. I didn't know it was a recruiting session. One of my cousins told me about the great loan program for refinancing your home and told me to go check it out.
It was held at a Holiday Inn. I asked several questions about the product they were suppose to sell, but never got a clear answer. All I kept hearing about was how they need my $200. $100 of that for a background check and $100 for processing fees. They showed pictures of luxurious houses and cars that they didn't own and talked about how much money they earned. Chris Hanson from NBC did an investigation on this.
My cousin is no longer in it. He told me they had to pay for their trips to the conferences and pay for all their training materials and pay monthly subscription to the website for more training and tips. They were never licensed loan officers. He had recruited 3 other close relatives and now they're all mad at him for scamming them.
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My ***hole uncle keeps trying to get me involved in crap like this. The most recent one 3 years ago was Burnlounge. Before that was Herbalife and Melalucia (sp?). He has always done really well in them but always tries to sucker me into to them. I just feel bad that my brother fell for them more than once.
@jaydez: I'm not sure if it's a pyramid scheme or not, but my father in law got dragged into Prepaid Legal Services... But he had to be a member first. So he signed up for a $35 a month program. Then he has to go to mandatory meetings to sell it. Then he has to buy $300+ worth of materials to sell it. And the more people he signs up, the better money he makes...
I tried to warn him after reading everything over. If anything, it was a waste of money and time. Some websites call it a MLM, others scream it's \"AUTHENTIC AND A GREAT WAY TO MAKE MONEY!!\" Even though they've been sued in many states for MLM type ways.
@jaydez:
Melaleuca is actually good, but this ACN is awful. You have to pay $500!!! to join!
At least, that was what it cost when they attempted to recruit me, about 3 years ago.
The thing I always see is they talk more about the system than the product. I had a friend who kept trying to recruit me, half the brochures he gave me didn't even mention what they were actually selling.