After the FBI realized that there was no threat, they asked AirTrain to let them reboard, but AirTran refused, instead choosing to refund their money and make them find a new flight. Irfan says his family deserves an apology.
"Safest" Seat Remarks Get Muslim Family Kicked Off Plane [CNN]
(Photo: zonaphoto) Thanks, Bryan!
Ignoring this highly accurate trend for the sake of being "politically correct" is beyond stupid.
Is it "fair" to the people that match the profile, but don't subscribe to the view points / methodologies of the "bad people" in same profile?
Yes!!! Why? because the people / society of those "profiles" allow and sometimes even promote the type of behavior that gets them profiled in the first place.
If one room of your house is sooooo full of filth that your neighbor smell it, don't expect the neighbor to not take action just cause you won't clean up that room!
The question I have is: Did the people that got pulled off the plane spend ANY time or energy complaining to their spiritual / governmental ties "back home" to squash the radical view points to help end the need for "profiling"?
Oh right ... not their problem huh? So now it's ours and this is one of the few ways to deal with it.
]]>First rule of being on a plane: don't talk about being on a plane.
]]>@thrid001: Again, its not racism. Last I checked Islam is not a race. Islam is a religion, not a race. For instance, take Richard Reid, or Johnny walker Lindh, they were white guys who bought into the "Religion of Peace."
]]>When they design new planes and build the first test model, they do a safety test of how quickly all passengers can exit in a fire or crash. Volunteers/employees all board the plane, and they blow a whistle and everyone evacuates while it's timed on a stopwatch. I don't think anyone doing those tests ever tried them with carry on luggage aboard, and people who are willing to die rather than leave their laptop or change of clothes on a plane!
]]>This family deserves a face to face public apology from the CEO of AirTran, nothing less.
]]>The airline should have done more to appease this apparently innocent and unfortunately wronged family. Traveling is hard enough as a 'white' man, I can only imagine how nerve wracking it must be for a 'brown' man; add in the FBI butt probing, the delay to travel plans, the uncertainty, anxiety, anger, etc this must have caused to them, and AirTrans has some SERIOUS butt kissing to do.
If they don't, I hope this family sues the living SHIT out of them, puts them outta business, and makes a statement to the rest of the asshole airline companies that they had better start focusing once more on customer satisfaction instead of their bottom line.
Ultimately, once enough customers have had enough of their bullshit (as I have long ago - I just don't fly anymore, period) the airlines will all go outta business, new ones will start up and hopefully learn from the mistakes of the 80s, 90s with the woeful fall in CS, and get back to fundamentals of successful longevity minded business.
Airlines and TSA can both kiss my ass. Peckerhead, good for nothing nazi assholes, the lot of 'em.
]]>Was being Muslim the reason they were talking about safe seats? As evident from the comments here in this post, other people that aren't Muslim talk about it too. What were they saying? "We're Muslim so we need to figure out the safest seats on this plane." Probably not.
]]>Try this instead:
]]>@Julia789:
True, another reason carry on luggage isn't safe.
]]>So hypothetically if a racist pilot says he won't fly black people because he believes they're all crooks. Airtran would kick them off? I really doubt it. To me seems like an weak excuse
]]>The very IDEA that a terrorist would go on a plane to blow it up and then DISCUSS some element of this WHILE ON THE PLANE while wearing "muslim clothing" makes me think that the people reporting (and maybe some here who find this reasonable) are IDIOTIC.
If you see people in traditional muslim clothing on your plane, the truth is, more than likely YOU ARE SAFE from these people. If there was an attack, you can almost guarantee that those people had NOTHING to do with it. Why?
Because true blue terrorists are NOT STUPID. why would they wear "muslim clothes" and discuss strategy on the very plane they are attacking? So an idiot in seat 22c will tell the attendant!?
Remember what the 9/11 attackers looked like? They wore milquetoast western clothing, cleanly shaved, conservative haircuts etc and calmly and separately boarded the planes.
On a side note, if there was another large scale orchestrated attack on the US, on US soil, I highly doubt that it would involve the airline industry. It's where we're NOT looking. That's the whole point.
]]>An entire pakistani family, which have already gone through all the secret, behind the scenes screening and then TSA airport screening on site, is going to blow up a plane because they were talking about seat safety?
Someone really need to 'out' the accusers in his case.
]]>@mythago: The orginal post was about race thats why.
Saying had it been a white couple nobody would have said anything. Which is most likely true unless that couple was white, Irish and flying out of England.
]]>im not sure how it works, but the rule should be that if you complain about strange looking muslims, you should get to come along and miss your flight as you explain in detail to the FBI what is so strange about people you dont understand to the point it makes you all scared...
]]>what a freaking pain it is just to get rid of an empty coffee cup.
]]>they have mentioned religions of other nutjobs but only when it's part of the reason, assumed or stated, for the violence.
]]>If you so allow me, my dear Pylon, the airline is not obligated to investigate anything. Their option is to call the FBI, which they did, and have the G-men handle it. Thus, if you call someone to investigate something and after doing it they tell you that there's nothing to worry about then why are you still punish the subjects of the investigation? Your position is exactly like the one of the woman who's husband is having and affair, and she goes and blame the "other woman". If the husband were doing the right thing, it would not matter what the other woman do; he still would not do the wrong thing.
Another thing, we human beings are so used to stereotypes and preconceptions that is just ridiculous. The article refers to a Muslim family, and we ALL JUMP to believe the family is an Arab family. They are not Arabs, they're Pakistanis. You guys really have it easy. You do not have to go through the humiliation this is for us; and I say us because I am a Muslim too. The "cute" thing is with my name and the color of my skin unless I wear a head scarf, which I rarely do, people assume I'm not. Just a little example. I needed to fly to Florida for a family situation. That day, for reasons that are not relevant, I was wearing the head scarf. Even before I made it to the boarding area, the security people and the document checkers gave me a #%^%^* of a time. When they finally let me go,and after telling them that it was just an act of racism, I decided to try a little experiment. I walked back out and went to the bathroom. I took of the scarf, fluff my hair a bit, and put on some make up. Well, What do you guessed! I just flew by smoothly. They not just didn't stop me, they did not look at me at all!!!
And you know what's the saddest thing? That this was BEFORE 9/11. @Pylon83:
]]>The entire goal it seems is to be as misleading and controversial as possible to draw attention.
It's disgusting, it's annoying, and there seems to be nothing people can do to change this behavior because the mass media these days has no shame.
]]>That way, when the terrorists apply for their Premium Terrorist frequent flier card, no profiling of any kind will be needed. (Except of course the profiling directed at card holders).
]]>At departure time, the Captain of flight 175 informed the airline that there were two federal air marshals onboard who contacted local and federal Washington law enforcement officials for a security related issue onboard the aircraft involving verbal comments made by a passenger and overheard by other passengers. The airline then advised the Transportation Security Administration (TSA). It was determined that all 104 passengers onboard must deplane and passengers, crew, baggage and the aircraft should be re-screened. After the re-screening of the passengers, crew, bags and the aircraft, 95 passengers were allowed to reboard the aircraft and nine were detained for interrogation by the local law enforcement officials, the FBI and the TSA. Flight 175 departed nearly two hours late and arrived safely at its destination.
Later in the day, six of the nine detained passengers approached the customer service counter and asked to be rebooked to Orlando. At the time, the airline had not been notified by the authorities that the passengers were cleared to fly and would not rebook them until receiving said clearance. One passenger in the party became irate and made inappropriate comments. The local law enforcement officials came over and escorted the passengers away from the gate podium.
AirTran Airways complied with all TSA, law enforcement and Homeland Security directives and had no discretion in the matter. The nine passengers involved were all offered full refunds and may fly with AirTran Airways again after having been released from questioning and cleared by the law enforcement officials.
]]>It should also be noted that SabreTech illegally loaded oxygen generators onto the aircraft causing the crash.
Get your facts straight!
]]>The good option would have been to apologize, thank the family for being good sports about it because you know how it is these days they have to check out every report no matter how unlikely, etc. etc., and reboarded them on the plane.
See, was that so hard? Or are you really that hard up for trolling for comments?
]]>seriously though, i agree that it was probably a good call not to put the people back on the plane - while there was no safety concern, one could arise if it was discovered that these were the people responsible for the delay (people tend to get very irate when they're stuck in situations like this one).
however, i cannot believe that they refused to put them on another flight, i believe that is blatant discrimination & i think airtran should be investigated & fined for it.
]]>hey arab people, do like mlk, boycott.
make them feel the pain of money.
that's when people come around.
everytime you take a flight email airtran's pres and media relations and say they lost your business
]]>With all that friggin' annoying as hell security, who the hell cares what the passengers were talking about - unless it was about the pilots.
In the "heightened security" US airport world today, without going into a few covert techniques that may or may not work, I would think the only semi-reliable way to commit an act of terrorist would be through the pilots actions...
]]>If they have a history of not complying with rules and regulations, what makes you think they'd change?
]]>And they do just a smash up job too [/sarcasm]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Air_Lines_Flight_1288
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:DAL1288a.jpg
Considering the airline offered a good faith voucher later... this will get thrown out.
Sad
]]>So, it's not as if their concern is without merit.@MrsLopsided:
]]>What I'd like to see is that if someone reports "suspicious people" to the FBI, they have to get off the plane and be interviewed too, not just rescreened. And if the people that they reported turn out to be clear, the people who reported their suspicions suffer along with the people they reported: the airline has to treat both groups equally. If you screw up someone's reputation and travel plans like this, there should be consequences.
]]>If you're the type of person who assumes brown = terrorist, why would the fact that the were discussing the safety of their seats put you over the edge? Wouldn't you assume that they were looking forward to dying in the plane crash, so they could be with Allah and 72 virgins for all eternity?
]]>@doctor_cos: Police and FBI have to profile it isn't always racially. That's how the world works, would you like them not to question the white dude, with sweat pants hanging out in front of a playground, where he was when a little kid was abducted?
@Nick1693: you're just silly if you don't think a bunch of people burning crosses aren't white.
@floraposte: Where does that info come from. For the last 30 years Domestic US airplane attacks have been overwhelmingly non homegrown white guys. There was one FedEx plane hijacking because he was being fired and went nuts, and some white dude who was being sent to jail who took out huge life insurance policies on himself in Iowa then set off a bomb on the plane. I didn't see anything about homegrown terrorists but please point me in that direction.
@TheRealAbsurdist: Actually they have a list of all fundamentalist groups and cults to do just that keep track of their activities. And yes they should look into many of those groups more often.
]]>Badgeman and SkiankingMike are the only ones here that have it right. Keep up the profiling, if we had done that on the morning of 9/11 maybe the twin towers would be standing and thousands of people would still be alive today.
]]>@David Brodbeck: More turbulence or more living. Hrmmmmmm, that's a tough one. I want to be where the black boxes are put to help THEM survive the crash, which is the tail section, so I'll take an extra demeral or darvocet or whatever that D-drug is you take to deal with motion sicknedss.
]]>Why do they need an FBI clearance anyway? Their names weren't on a no fly list. Just because some passengers are paranoid assholes doesn't mean your civil rights go out the window.The FBI asked them a few questions and were satisfied with the answers. what did you want a full background check with character references before they could board the plane?
The passengers were cleared by airport security as well. If that not good enough I guess was should get rid of the TSA and have the FBI handle all security?
]]>I think I can hear hell freezing over.
]]>There was a similar problem a couple months ago with my hometown newspaper's website. From what I remember, a two year old got hit by a stray bullet (can't recall if the baby survived) but when the story was first reported online, the headline was pretty straightforward. Something along the lines of "Two year old hit by stray round". A couple hours later, the same story was featured under the headline "Tot Shot" by some idiot editor who thought it sounded cute. There were at least twenty comments on the story's forum from people who didn't think the headline was so cute, and a couple hours later it was changed to the original headline.
]]>AirTran, the airline formerly known as ValuJet? The airline that managed to crash a jet into the Everglades because they didn't know how to store cargo?
The baggage handlers have crashed more of their planes than terrorists.
]]>I'm wondering why the stewardess didn't talk to the captain, who typically knows where the air marshall is seated.
]]>Until then, don't say what is and is not acceptable.
I would think that the subsets of what you find acceptable and what others find acceptable do not intersect as much as you think.
]]>It also perpuates itself. Take for instance when Black people are racially profiled and are pulled over and searched for drugs. If you pull over 1,000 Black people and 10% have drugs you end up arresting 100 Black people.
If you pull over 100 white people and arrest 10% that is only 10 people. Then when the stats come out, the argument is that we must racially profile because 100 out of 110 people arrested are for drugs are black...of course they are because that is the only people you are pulling over.
It is violation of the law. It is racist and this country can do better. I say search everyone, regardless of race, very thoroughly. That is the best solution if we are truly concerned for our safety.
]]>Only because there's a group of white people doing this, otherwise, no.
]]>@☠Grяrяrяrяrяrяrя. All new for 2009 and available with 0% f...: Indeed. Anyone still uncomfortable *after* these people were cleared are the ones who should not fly on that aircraft.
]]>Even if AirTran wasn't acting racistly, they still chose to highly inconvenience paying customers in order not to discomfit their racist passengers. That's unacceptable.
]]>You people are forgetting one thing. They refused to let them on ANY flight.... not just the one they were scheduled. You honestly think the FBI was able to clear these people in time for them to board their flight?
]]>By the way this quote was in the CNN story:
The families of Atif Irfan, a tax attorney, and his brother Kashif Irfan, an anesthesiologist]]>Completely off topic - but that made my brain perk up. Remember the movie American Beauty, when Chris Cooper as the bigot neighbor meets his new gay neighbors? One introduces the other as "his partner." Cooper blurts out "Partner huh - so what's your business?" One replies, "Well, I'm a tax attorney and he's an anesthesiologist."
They were also offered a return flight, but the family-plus-friend has indicated they'll probably decline.
]]>@Micromegas: You can call it racial profiling, but lets face it: 9/11 was not carried out by a "diverse" group, nor was it Irish Catholic altarboys at the helm. If there was a rash of people burning crosses, wouldn't you assume they were white? They almost certainly would be. That's why racial profiling is a necessary evil.
]]>If a plane crashed or fell from high in the sky, it probably wouldn't matter where you were sitting - but these runway crashes - it could make a big difference! Especially in winter, the chances of skidding off the runway due to ice is higher. And the chance of hitting another plane that is taxiing on the runway, especially in terribly crowded major airports...
Being near an exit can save your life. Look at that runway crash recently, was it Denver? The plane was ON FIRE but people were blocking the exits because they were GETTING THEIR LUGGAGE FROM THE UPPER RACKS! You have to be near an exit to protect your family from idiots who are more concerned with their luggage than the life of everyone on the plane! I don't care if your heart medication is in that suitcase - get the hell out. There are ambulances 100 feet from you on the ground to help you if it's that serious! In those narrow aisles, you couldn't even stampede your way out in a panic. It would bottleneck, killing everyone.
Yes, the chances of crashes happening are low, and it's still "safer to fly than drive" but people can't help being nervous. I get very nervous when I fly, even though I rationally tell myself over and over that it's the safest mode of transport and I'd be more likely to be hit by lightning than be in a plane crash. I just can't help it.
]]>I would say they've lost my business over this but the truth is they never had it. I still haven't forgiven them for their fatal crash in the Everglades when they were still ValuJet. That was another instance of their flaunting the law by flying passengers with active oxygen generating cannisters aboard. The purchase of another air/flight certificate and the AirTran name might have fooled some people but it doesn't impress me. They're still the same less than savory company.
]]>Knowing the sorts of prices this company usually offers, I find it hard to believe that their refund of an advance-pay ticket was remotely sufficient to buy a ticket on another airline.
The incident was racist on the part of the fliers, but AirTran has notoriously shite customer service, so I am not remotely surprised that they handled the situation this way. I won't jump to the conclusion that their decision not to rebook was motivated by other reasoning.
The thing I can't get over about this whole thing is...if these people really thought the plane was about to be bombed or run into a building, just what position on the plane did they think would possibly offer safety from that? None. This was racism, pure and simple.
]]>I say they show them just how American they really are and take them to court!
]]>At the very least, AirTran should have rebooked them onto a later flight.
]]>Forgot to add by not allowing them to re-board. The accuser might get the impression he/she was correct and they did pose a threat.
]]>Big Fail by AirTrans. I'll bet other carriers were lining up to fly that family for free.
]]>Logically if someone who was asked to disembark is allowed to re-board that means any problem was rectified. Only idiots would still worry
]]>According to the Fox affiliate in Washington:
A source told FOX 5 the Irfans were not allowed on another Airtran plane because while at the gate trying to re-book their flight, someone in the family mentioned Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh and said the word 'bomb'.]]>
What the hell didn't Airtran let them re-board the plane? that makes no sense, they were cleared. If the other passengers still had a problem screw them. Let the passengers who fell uncomfortable leave the plane. It's not fair to make a group leave just some assholes feel uncomfortable
]]>Miffed is when your boyfriend forgets to take out the stinky trash AGAIN, this is in a whole different category.
]]>@Micromegas: racial profiling is acceptable to a degree.
And the FBI should check all complaints against people.
The fault is the airline not letting them back on.
]]>It failed to mention that everyone (people and bags) were re-screened.
AirTran was following the rules.
]]>1) A white family of nine people get on a plane. They are dressed in contemporary clothing. Three of the young adults make a remark about where would be the safest place to sit on the plane in the event of an accident or explosion.
2) A brown family of nine people get on a plane. They are dressed in traditional clothing of Islamic people. Three of the young adults make a remark about where would be the safest place to sit on the plane in the event of an accident or explosion.
Hell why not:
3) A Chinese family of nine people get on the plane. They are dressed in clothing straight out of 1920's Shanghai. Three of the young adults in thick Chinese accents remark about where would be the safest place to sit on the plane in the event of an accident or explosion.
The reason why other people felt uncomfortable on the plane had everything to do with the appearance of this family. Those preconceptions and stereotypes led them to interpret those remarks differently then they would have with #1 or #3.
It was racism. Period.
]]>@LeJerk: Apparently, as long as you are willing to have everyone else on the flight be de-planed and re-screened. Depends on just how deep your revenge streak runs!
]]>@DrGirlfriend: And the link to this article reminds me of something that has been bugging me lately - CNN has been really "cute" lately with their choice of titles. Under the "Top News" section at the bottom of the page, there is another link to this story titled "Muslims miffed after being booted off plane". Did it really need to be so flippant-sounding?
]]>When I read the article this morning, these two things jumped out at me:
"When we were talking, when we turned around, I noticed a couple of girls kind of snapped their heads," said Sobia Ijaz, Irfan's wife. "I kind of thought to myself, 'Oh, you know, maybe they're going to say something.' It didn't occur to me that they were going to make it such a big issue."
The rest of the family was removed 15 or 20 minutes later, along with a family friend, Abdul Aziz, a Library of Congress attorney and family friend who was coincidentally taking the same flight and had been seen talking to the family.
It makes me sad that this is all it takes - to talk about airplane safety under the influence of being Middle Eastern. And I'd love to know what, exactly, is AirTran's excuse for not re-seating the family. Even the FBI tried to reason with them.
]]>The rare times i fly i talk about the safest place to sit incase of crash or something too..
But since i'm a big white irish looking guy it's ok right? well wait.. i could be IRA.....
]]>I think the Irfans may be bigger people than any of us...because I bet most of us would want to get back on that flight just to sit next to the person who thought we were terrorists and just mess with that person all during the flight.
]]>![[commons.wikimedia.org]](http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:DAL1288a.jpg){kind=link}
